Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

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anajmi
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#151

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:27 am

The only reason that Wives are called the mother of the believers is that coz no man can marry the wives after the demise of the prophet.
The reason doesn't matter. They are called the mothers of the believers and there is nothing more respectable than that. Why aren't believers allowed to marry the wives of the prophet (saw)? Because then, the respect they deserve would reduce. Think before posting.
Quran even asks the prophet if Allah could replace them with better wives.
Since they were never replaced, we can assume that they became the best wives available for the prophet (saw), or as you said they would've been replaced. Allah says the same thing about believers also in the Quran, that Allah can replace us all with those who will worship him better. Did he replace you by any chance? :wink:
Even sunnis and Shias both unanimously agree that there were no wives included in the cloak when this verse was revealed.
All sunnis and all shias, even if bundled together, cannot trump the Quran.

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#152

Unread post by silvertongue » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:43 am

The reason doesn't matter.
LOLz/./..... Hats off for you.. Good luck..

morela
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#153

Unread post by morela » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:49 am

For some contexts ,reasons or even intentions do not matter

Eg a person who does aarti to ganpati with the true intention to worship Allah alone via ganpati, here irrespective of intention it is shirk.

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#154

Unread post by silvertongue » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:19 am

FOR SOME PEOPLE, THEY TRY TO DEGRADE EVERY MERIT ALI A.S. WAS GIVEN BY ALLAH SWT. NO BIG DEAL.

morela
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#155

Unread post by morela » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:29 am

silvertongue wrote:FOR SOME PEOPLE, THEY TRY TO DEGRADE EVERY MERIT ALI A.S. WAS GIVEN BY ALLAH SWT. NO BIG DEAL.

FALSE


No merit was given by Allah to anyone except his chosen prophets, The prophet in turn based on respective qualities praised many people.
You find the explicit name of Zaid bin harith the adopted son of prophet in the quran , yet you dont find the name of anyone else of prophet's time in the Quran except Muhammad \Ahmad himself.

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#156

Unread post by silvertongue » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:36 am

If you are talking about names here, Jesus a.s is mentioned 25 times in Quran, does that mean he has higher position than our Nabi a.s... Besides, there are many ayats of Quran which refer to Ali a.s. and the whole muslim ummah accepts that except the enemies of Ali a.s. and sons of Muawiya and Yazeed l.a.

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#157

Unread post by silvertongue » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:40 am

Ali a.s. is mentioned as the Nafs of Rasul in the Ayat of Mubahila, the one who sells his soul for the pleasure of Allah (mentioned in the Quran). The one who gave the ring while in Ruku.. Besides I have no need to share my knowledge with ignorant fools like you. As Imam Ali a.s. said," You cannot win an argument with a fool".. YA ALI..... :-)

anajmi
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#158

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:55 am

The argument that the wives of the prophet (saw) are called the mothers of the believers to prevent marriage to them is a flawed and an idiotic argument. I have shown this many times before on this board but people refuse to learn.

Consider these ayah from the Quran.

4:22 AND DO NOT marry women whom your fathers have previously married - although what is past is past: [24] this, verily, is a shameful deed, and a hateful thing, and an evil way.

4:23 Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your aunts paternal and maternal, and a brother's daughters, and a sister's daughters; and your milk-mothers, and your milk-sisters; and the mothers of your wives; and your step-daughters - who are your foster children - born of your wives with whom you have consummated your marriage; but if you have not consummated your marriage, you will incur no sin [by marrying their daughters]; and [forbidden to you are] the spouses of the sons who have sprung from your loins; and [you are forbidden] to have two
sisters [as your wives] at one and the same time - but what is past is past: [25] for, behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.


As you can see from these ayahs, marriages are prohibited by Allah to many different women. Are they all made mothers? Of course not. So the reason why Allah made the wives of the prophet (saw) the mothers of the believers cannot be for marriage. Allah has also explicitly prohibited marriage to the wives of the prophet (saw) in a different ayah in the Quran. Hence, the only reason why Allah makes the wives of the prophet (saw), mothers of the believers is so that the believers respect them like their mothers. Any one who doesn't respect the wives of the prophet (saw) as his or her mother, then he or she cannot be considered a believer.

People create flawed explanations to justify their own faulty beliefs.

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#159

Unread post by silvertongue » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:09 am

Narrated Yazid Ibn Hayyan:

We went to Zaid Ibn Arqam and said to him: You have found goodness (for you had the honor) to live in the company of the Prophet (S) and offered prayer behind him, and the rest of the Hadith is the same (as 3 traditions before) but the Prophet said: "Behold, for I am leaving amongst you two weighty things, one of them is the Book of Allah...", and in this (Hadith) these words are also found: We said: "Who are his Ahlul-Bayt (that the Prophet was referring to)? Are they his wives?”

Thereupon Zaid said: "No, by Allah! A woman lives with a man (as his wife) for a while; he then divorces her and she goes back to her parents and her people. The Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet are his lineage and his descendants (those who come from his blood) for whom the acceptance of charity (Sadaqah) is prohibited."

Reference:

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of ‘Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1874, Tradition #37

morela
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#160

Unread post by morela » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:08 am

Firstly the above hadith is mawqoof i.e sayings of a companion not the prophet himself, what he said here was his own personal opinion, even the opinions of Abu bakr , Umar which contradict with Quran or non mawqoof hadith from prophet are to be rejected (yes there are many such examples , like: Triple talaq ordained by Umar RA is rejected by people of Quran and Sunnah). Ahlebayt as wives is clearly established in Quran and non Mawqoof sayings of prophet pbuh himself, which was posted earlier in this forum too, will bring up that thread.

see even Abu bakr, Umar RA sayings can be rejected if it contradicts with whaat Allah and his messenger says:

Ibn `Abbas (ra) said: "Stones are about to rain down upon you from the sky: I say to you: "Allah's Messenger (may Peace Be Upon Him) said..." and you reply: "But Abu Bakr and `Umar said...?"

Because obedience is a form of worship, it is not allowed to obey anyone - be he man or jinn - unless it conforms with obedience to Allah and His Messenger (may Peace Be Upon Him). This is why Ibn `Abbas (ra) repudiated those who, when they were informed that the Prophet (may Peace Be Upon Him) had pronounced upon a matter, objected that Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq and `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with them both) 2 had said something different, thus, in effect, preferring the opinions of these two pious Companions over the Revelation of Allah . This incident allegedly occurred during a discussion about Hajj in which Ibn `Abbas (ra) mentioned something which he had heard from Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah (may Peace Be Upon Him). Ibn `Abbas (ra) warned them of Allah's approaching punishment and His Anger for those who preferred the opinions of Abu Bakr and `Umar (may Allah be pleased with them) to the guidance of Allah's Messenger (may Peace Be Upon Him). - In view of this, what may be said of those who prefer the opinions of lesser men over the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Prophet (may Peace Be Upon Him). 3

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#161

Unread post by silvertongue » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:19 am

Firstly the above hadith is mawqoof
Your every talk is Mawqoof.. Lolz.. If we started ignoring some traditions and narrations like this then forget that we will reach at some conclusion. Leave it here.. Its useless to talk now. I have no time for all this to discuss with someone who have fixed biased views. When i bring a true hadiths IN FAVOR OF AHLUL BAYT, its mawqoof... Well done.. teach ur kids as wel k.. tc..

morela
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#162

Unread post by morela » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:31 am

bro let us be completely unbiased with regards to this, there are many hadith which ignorant people think to be contradictory but a closer examination reveals that one of the hadith would be mawqoof , which is not the sayings of the prophet but an opinion of a sahaba.

There are many hadiths which practically demonstrate that sahabas themselves had many differencs of opinions, this is the reason why if contradiction happens then we revert back to Allah and his messenger's saying, even in above case there are other hadith from the words of prophet pbuh himse;f and Quran which explicitly state that wives are part of ahlebayt , hence the above mawqoof hadith although correctly sahih is just a opinion of zaid (RA).

I can give many such examples of hadith which are mawqoof and contradict not just with prophetic hadith but also Quran. Infact mawqoof hadith are not the prophetic hadith , there is no contradiction among the sahih prophetic hadiths.

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#163

Unread post by silvertongue » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:05 am

Well, k lets just say for argument sake the wives of the prophet ARE from the Ahlul Bayt. But then which ones? The Prophet has 8 wives right. and what about Ayesha who fought the Khalifa of the time and later on even regret that. She was also informed about the Hadith of the barking dogs of hawwab, and even Quran says that REMAIN IN YOUR HOUSES, in this verse, that means she broke every law/advice just coz of her jealousy against Maula Ali a.s. WE do respect the wives of the prophet bro, but not those who later on envied the ones WE love so dearly and the prophet loved so dearly. "FATIMA IS A PART OF ME". "ALI IS FROM ME & I AM FROM HIM" Thats all I can say about the hatred we have for Ayesha in specific. NOT ALL WIVES.. :-)

Muslim First
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#164

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:17 am

The Prophet has 8 wives
First figure out how many wives Prophet had

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#165

Unread post by silvertongue » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:38 am

Well the history says total of 13.. But we normally hear 5 including Khadija a.s., Umme Salma a.s., Ayesha l.a., Zainab a..s, Hafsa etc..

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#166

Unread post by silvertongue » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:41 am

The topic remains the same though...

anajmi
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#167

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:50 am

All wives of the prophet (saw) are from the Ahlul Bayt as per the Quran. No hadith, shia or sunni, can invalidate that.

All wives of the prophet (saw) have been called Mothers of the believers by Allah Himself in the Quran. Anyone who doesn't consider the wives of the prophet (saw) as his or her mother, is not a believer. Anyone who hates Hazrat Ayesha (ra) is a denier of the Quran.

AmmarHussaini
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#168

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:45 am

anajmi wrote:All wives of the prophet (saw) are from the Ahlul Bayt as per the Quran. No hadith, shia or sunni, can invalidate that.

All wives of the prophet (saw) have been called Mothers of the believers by Allah Himself in the Quran. Anyone who doesn't consider the wives of the prophet (saw) as his or her mother, is not a believer. Anyone who hates Hazrat Ayesha (ra) is a denier of the Quran.
dont stretch it too far brother, Quran also says Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. S. 33:40 Y. Ali

When Muhammed(s) him self is not father of ummah, his wives cant be mother of Ummah as well, but yes its up to peopleto love and respect Muhammed(s) wives as mother.

and also ahlul bayt are just Muhammed s, Ali s fatema s Hassan s and Hussain(s), even sunni believes in this, so please dont dish out your own belief as a belief of sunnis.

anajmi
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#169

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:10 pm

his wives cant be mother of Ummah as well
Congratulations. You have just denied the Quran.
and also ahlul bayt are just Muhammed s, Ali s fatema s Hassan s and Hussain(s), even sunni believes in this, so please dont dish out your own belief as a belief of sunnis.
And congratulations again.

Morons like you are probably not bothered with what the Quran says right? And if you did read it, you probably are too dumb to understand it. Quran is not talking about biology. But then, you probably don't know what biology is either.

AmmarHussaini
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#170

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:43 pm

@Anajmi

use your thick wahabiya brain and read my post again, I have posted ayat from Quraan and if you deny it, you are denier of Quraan and not me.

moron :wink:

JavedhJuma
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#171

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:05 pm

Prophet's wives not in order:

1. Khadija
2. Hafsa
3. Sofia (the Jew)
4. Mary the Copt
5.zainab (ex wife of adopted son)
6.Ayesha
7. Usma
8. Sawda
9. Hind
10. Juwayriyya
11. Ramla
12. Maria
13. Maymuna

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#172

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:40 am

Quran is not talking about biology.
You better be sure about that bro. If you think that WE differentiate the wives with Ahlul Bayt, then why does Quran categorize them???...

33:6:

The Prophet is more worthy of the believers than themselves, and his wives are [in the position of] their mothers. And those of [blood] relationship are more entitled [to inheritance] in the decree of Allah than the [other] believers and the emigrants, except that you may do to your close associates a kindness [through bequest]. That was in the Book inscribed.

Please note that when we talk about Ahlul Bayt, theyr the blood line of Prophet Mohammed, i.e from Fatima a.s. and not his wives. Even Quran has categorized the position of the wives and those in blood relation to Rasulallah a.s.

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#173

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:57 am

But note that all the wives were not that good as it sounds or else Quran wouldnt have revealed Ayats such as:

O Prophet, say to your wives, "If you should desire the worldly life and its adornment, then come, I will provide for you and give you a gracious release. (33:28)

O wives of the Prophet, whoever of you should commit a clear immorality - for her the punishment would be doubled two fold, and ever is that, for Allah , easy. (33:30)

O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.(33:32)

And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. (33:33) First part of the Ayat, Ayesha went out for the battle of Jamal with 20000 soldiers, the barking dogs hadith, prophecy of fighting with Ali a.s. all comes to her and still she goes, and I wonder why suddenly she became the most beloved wife of the prophet..

But those who want to accept, will accept or else theyll just call me moron.. Well what else can be expected from those who defend people like Abu Bakr, Umar, Ayesha, Muawiya etc...

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#174

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:58 am

JavedhJuma
what about umme salama?

silvertongue
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#175

Unread post by silvertongue » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:01 am

The verse

"Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)"

was revealed to the Prophet (S) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husayn, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered ‘Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O’ Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification.”Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?”the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."

Sunni reference: Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663

morela
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#176

Unread post by morela » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:12 am

It seems you are just blindly copy pasting from shia propoganda websites:

http://sunnah.com/search/Salama-cloak

The major reason I changed to Sunni (non Mushrik) was that I found many lies quoted by them which were like "clear white lies" they even change the text of hadith!!
a
Also I had pressed you and found a mistake earlier too, you just seem to copy aand have serious "confirmation bias". regarding "after me ali is mola".... which is oft quoted in shia propoganda which are lies

anajmi
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#177

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:04 am

I have posted ayat from Quraan and if you deny it, you are denier of Quraan and not me.
You are a moron. The prophet (saw) is not the father - I agree. The wives of the prophet (saw) are the mothers of the believers. I agree with that too. It is easy for me to agree with both the ayahs of the Quran because unlike you, I am not a moron.

AmmarHussaini
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#178

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:13 am

anajmi wrote:
I have posted ayat from Quraan and if you deny it, you are denier of Quraan and not me.
You are a moron. The prophet (saw) is not the father - I agree. The wives of the prophet (saw) are the mothers of the believers. I agree with that too. It is easy for me to agree with both the ayahs of the Quran because unlike you, I am not a moron.
hey idiot, who is more importaant for ummah Muhammed(s) or his wives?

when prophet is not father of ummah how come his wives becomes mother of ummah? :wink:

let the world see what kind of pathetic moron you are.

AmmarHussaini
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#179

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:23 am

morela wrote:It seems you are just blindly copy pasting from shia propoganda websites:

http://sunnah.com/search/Salama-cloak

The major reason I changed to Sunni (non Mushrik) was that I found many lies quoted by them which were like "clear white lies" they even change the text of hadith!!
a
Also I had pressed you and found a mistake earlier too, you just seem to copy aand have serious "confirmation bias". regarding "after me ali is mola".... which is oft quoted in shia propoganda which are lies
here is one more idiot who thinks every one else is mushrik and he alone and his master abu bakar baghdadi who was once druggist and war lord is momeen...

ROFL these jokers makes this site more colorful and interesting, I hope Admin dont ban them any more. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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anajmi
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Re: Hadith from Ahle Bayt prohibiting grave worship

#180

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:35 am

when prophet is not father of ummah how come his wives becomes mother of ummah?
Because the Quran isn't talking about biology you moron. But then you probably do not know what biology is either. Right?