This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

[alam]

The below mentioned thread is very relevant to the subject issue :-

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2072&p=34185&hilit=poona#p34185

GM Bhai, I admire your optimism and depth in seeing through the essence of this thread and attempting to divert it with your proposed thread. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2072&p=34185&hilit=poona#p34185

Maybe ADMIN ought to consider locking this thread "Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum" once and for all?

[Critical_Thinker]

An excellent thread with many posts I want to reply to, and eventually will when I have the time.
As people are now encouraging admin to lock this thread, I will make a quick comment which I hope will make it through.
I wonder if admin will remain true to his policy of keeping the forum free and open, so will not decide to lock this thread?

Without doubt, this is very much an anti-bohra forum, however the reason is not because the forum was 'intended' to be so.
Unfortunately admin has allowed this place to become a free-for-all instead of being focussed purely on the objectives.
Therefore it has gained an overwhelming majority of posters who are entirely against the bohra creed and community.
Some are open in their hatred for bohras, whereas others disguise their hatred under the ideals of reform.
This has the consequential effect of keep all genuine bohras away from this site, which is why hardly anybody comes here.
Admin is happy with this situation and so it will remain.

I congratulate fayaaz bhai on his insightful analysis of the members here.
It shows a high level of intelligence which naturally will not be appreciated by the majority of members [DELETED]
This kind of 'thought experiment' reveals a lot about the nature of the forum, and what it may or may not have accomplished in the past and may or may not accomplish in the future.
Im very glad to see that fayaaz bhai is infuriating the usual suspects, who clearly do want him to be removed.

I will give my own version of categorisation later, but for now wish to clarify one aspect.

There are absolutely no 'ex-bohras' here.
What we do have is non-bohras (like anajmi) and self-hating-bohras (like al zulfiqar)

I shall explain why by using these two people as examples:

Anajmi: non-bohra
By reading what anajmi says here, its clear to see that he never was a bohra, and is actually a convert to islam, who was probably a hindu or christian before.
He lacks the most basic knowledge of either shia or even sunni islam and constantly spouts nonsense contrary to both schools of thought.
I doubt he has ever set foot in a bohra masjid and what little he does know about our community, he has gleaned by being on this forum for over a decade.
We can only wonder how anajmi found out about the bohra community and why he is so obsessed with us.
In my opinion there can be only one explanation for this kind of [DELETED]
[DELETED]
[DELETED]

Al zulfiqar: self-hating bohra
Al zulfiqar has a history of flip-flopping and back-peddling, and most notably, being the most angry and foul-mouthed person here.
Like anajmi, he also says that he was a born bohra but has now left the community, but this is clearly not the case.
People who have left the kothar behind (like myself and the other udaipuri progressives) have absolutely no anger at all.
We have a calm and peaceful demeanor and never attack our fellow brothers and sisters who remain in the traditional jamaat.
The only explanation for the behaviour of al zulfiqar, is that he is still a fully fledged, fee paying member of the traditional jamaat. [DELETED]
[DELETED]
[DELETED]

[SBM]

Sister Critical Thinker
Well sorry to say that your analysis and assumptions about Anajmi and AZ is totally off the mark, I know both of them and they are more connected to Bohra community as much as you are connected to Bohra Community All of us are connected with Dawiooodi Bohra community. You blaming Admin to let Sunnis take over but not a beep about Kothari Abdes like Ya Hussain and Universaldad as well as Adam and Fayyaz who keep on calling this forum as useless. I wonder what SKQ and SMS insiders think about this forum
I am surprised about your support to Fayyaz aka Maethist who has not a single word against SMS and his goons Show me one post by this person where he has condemned the Aayash life style of SMS. He is cohot with Adam and other blind defenders of SMS

[Biradar]

One of the reasons why fayyaaz seems annoying is that he is partially correct. There is a snowball's chance in hell that someone like anajmi can make any difference to any Bohra reform, except negatively. He is fundamentally against Bohras, as he has repeatedly shown over the last 14 years of his participation here. [DELETED] [DELETED]

However, fayyaaz is yet to clarify what drives him. He says it is more than mere legalism. However, he has not told us what ethical system he himself follows. Hence, he is unable to condemn a Yazid-lover, besides some name-calling. This is a common problem with many (not all) atheists, who are unable to defend their beliefs as they have not thought about them carefully enough. Now, I am not saying that a secular ethics can not be constructed, but it seems to me that whatever one picks, one will be unable to distinguish between various religious sects, or even secular philosophies, for that matter. Hence, all fayyaaz can do is to say if something is legal or not.

For Bohras, the question is not about legality, it is about correctness as understood Islamically. Not all legal thing are Islamic: for example, eating pork is legal, but not Islamic. In this case, fayyaaz can't find any secular reason to avoid pork (there may not be any such reasons). Thus, fayyaaz seems forever vacillating, somewhat like [DELETED]

Hence, I don't see what value fayyaaz adds, yet. Of course, fayyaaz could come out as a supporter for (say) S. Qutbuddin (or, Allah forbid, DMMS), and then may have a foundation from which to bring about change. However, I would encourage him (and others) to keep participating as one needs a diversity of views before a good set of actions and beliefs can be decided upon. Imagine if all we got here were rantings of fanatics!

[SBM]

Br Biradar
Fayyaz is NOT clearly supporter of SKQ but seems like he is comfortable with SMS and his following. He has not replied about atrocities of SMS and his gang
Still waiting for his opinion on Mehfuza Ben==Shabbir Bhinderwala as well the Mumin who was asked to quit the bank job and who is now unemployed.
Well this forum is not about FAYYAZ per se but to expose HYPOCRITES like him who come on high horses and lecture and profile everyone but when confronted with real questions divert the topic or run away
He has not answered my question about me asking Admin to ban him.So you see a pattern in people like him who just throw accusations without providing evidences. His assertion that this forum is useless but can not respond about the many incidents on Kothar changing their tactics after being exposed on this very forum
So again as I said this topic is not about FAYYAZ but hypocrites like him who are hell bent on defaming this very forum to further their hidden agenda (in this case a paid lackey of SMS and his goons)

[anajmi]

There is a snowball's chance in hell that someone like anajmi can make any difference to any Bohra reform, except negatively.

I am not working for the reform movement and don't want to work for it either. I have made it clear many times before. The reformist agenda isn't the following of Islam as per the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). And my agenda is just that. I thought I have made that amply clear. And this kind of reform I have been able to bring into the lives of those that matter most to me. The rest matter, but not so much that I will lose sleep over them. I am not like the prophet (saw) who worried so much about [DELETED]

[SBM]

It seems that both Sister Critical Thinker and Br Biradar should be pondering why in the first place people like Anajmi, AZ, GM, Asad and me (and many more) became disillusioned with Dai and decided to distance ourselves from community we were all born and still have families.
Instead of labeling people like our resident Profiler is doing, all should be asking what is Dai doing to bring these people back? Is not the job of DAI to give Dawat to people who left and bring others, And sorry to say on this front both Dais SKQ and SMS as well as SMB have failed miserably. That may be due to their own indulgence in the Ayash life they are all used to and the slavery mindset they have created among their followers

[alam]

All I did was request admin to lock this thread, and underground supporters of this Bohra Categorization and defamation resurface.
Wow!

[fayyaaz]

Maybe ADMIN ought to consider locking this thread "Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum" once and for all?

Why? You want to deprive the ex-Bohra and anti-Bohras from exposing hypocrisy of fayyaaz? They thrive on this thread. Don't you see how energetic they are in participating here? If you do not like the thread, stay away from it. I have not even begun yet. As Biradar has pointed out, I need to clarify my ethics and 'where I am coming from'. That will take some doing and this thread is the one I intend to use for that purpose. I suggest you use your time encouraging your anti-Bohra friends to stick to issues rather than divert the thread into an anti-fayyaaz party.

p.s. If you still haven't got it, my categorization applies to participants of this forum only. Not to all Bohras.

[SBM]

All I did was request admin to lock this thread, and underground supporters of this Bohra Categorization and defamation resurface.
Wow!

Funny part is that all these supporter of Resident Profiler did not question his credibility. He still has not replied about accusation that I tried to ban him. What kind of credibility this person has and one has to wonder about the integrity of his posts

[anajmi]

I need to clarify my ethics and 'where I am coming from'. That will take some doing

Yeah. I don't doubt that. Clarification of your ethics will definitely take some doing!!

[anajmi]

biradar wrote:
However, I would encourage him (and others) to keep participating as one needs a diversity of views before a good set of actions and beliefs can be decided upon. Imagine if all we got here were rantings of fanatics!

Another hypocrite. I would encourage you to encourage yourself to participate too when you feel the heat and the desire to run from a discussion that isn't going your way!!

[Biradar]

biradar wrote:
However, I would encourage him (and others) to keep participating as one needs a diversity of views before a good set of actions and beliefs can be decided upon. Imagine if all we got here were rantings of fanatics!

Another hypocrite. I would encourage you to encourage yourself to participate too when you feel the heat and the desire to run from a discussion that isn't going your way!!

Correct! I only participate when I wish to. If I respond to everything which [DELETED] people like you write, I will need another 24 hours each day.

PS: I preemptively wrote [DELETED] in case Daddy aka Admin gets upset that I am hurting your fee-fees.

[anajmi]

Correct! I only participate when I wish to.

So you want others to do your job for you?

[anajmi]

Maybe you guys should divvy up the time. Collect a few people like yourself and then start taking turns to respond to me. I can handle many like you.

[Biradar]

Maybe you guys should divvy up the time. Collect a few people like yourself and then start taking turns to respond to me. I can handle many like you.

Let me just say something, which perhaps you already know: I don't respond because I don't think that you have anything valuable to say. I have read your [DELETED] views for 14 years. So, if I don't respond from now onwards, please don't take it personally. It is not you, it is me. I can't handle the [DELETED] you fling any more. You are bound for [DELETED], pointless arguing with you. Regards!

PS: I preemptively wrote [DELETED] in case Daddy aka Admin gets upset that I am hurting your fee-fees.

[anajmi]

Actually, you do respond, as you have done a couple of times above, but only when nothing of importance needs to be said.

[humanbeing]

4. Anti-Bohras. This is the largest group. they are all e-Jamaat card carrying members of the Jamaat. They complain about exploitation and oppression by the clergy and denounce SMS and to a lesser extent SKQ. .

Totally wrong definition. First, this category is to be named Anti-Kothar Bohra.

They do not know what to do about their lot but to suffer. They pay up their dues and show no interest in Reform as they do not discuss any strategy concerning it. .

Wrong again ! you are throwing your opinions without any justification or simple examples. These anti-kothar bohras are the ones that are surviving smartly under kothar’s opression and reaching out to other opressed bohras giving them a hope and awaken them to reality that there are many such like-minded anti-kothar bohra existing the in the mighty kothar’s rule. The strategies and ways to avoid kothar’s opression has been discussed widely on this forum, if one is lazy not to refer these discussion, it is their lack of effort and does not reflect this idiotic assumption. Anti-kothar pays up kothar just as a hapless person pays to the goondaas in the street to live peacefully in the society.

The oppression they claim is not evident in gatherings of Bohras specially when SMS is present. There is joyous welcome for him with shouts of Mola, Mola. They all pray for his long life all the time and pray tawassul namaaz for him. .

Seriously !! what a devious assuption you have formed. Your definition here is more suited as ABDE category..

My advice is for them to either join Bohras to work for Reform from within or leave the cult. They will do neither. They like the comfort of bitching on this forum and that is where they will stay. Do not expect any leader to emerge from among them. Clever anti-Bohras like AZ or GM refuse to take up leadership. .

Anti-Kothar bohras are much better lot to fight kothar from within. Kothar is not an honest enemy, they need to be dealt with decpetion and trickery. Your assumptions are flawed in fact devious. Your existence and arguments on this forum are getting obvious.

[humanbeing]

I want to ask those detractors on this forum who accuse people posting on this forum against kothar’s oppressive policies and mis-management of bohra community’s wealth and faith. Why and by what logic they have deduced this judgement/assumption/opinion that these people don’t do anything in real life to fight kothar ? This is not a time-set battle or competition where either party can win, it is a perpetual state of conflict be it in real life, on such forums, within hearts or physically. Different people have different ways to ward off kothar. The endless talks, discussions, debates, argument has various faces to it. If kothar cannot be defeated or reformed, then there is a hope to help those who wants to be helped. And there are bohras young and old who are in a state of conflict, feeling alone in their thoughts. But such forums, discussions in thaals, social gatherings, family outings help these kinds to come in terms slowly and steadily. There is no one stop solution to these.


I still pay up, but now my paying up is more conscious, probed and effective to the project they are asking for. I get involved, I demand information and provide assistance. It is not blind pledge anymore. I encourage healthy dialogue within abde circles. My efforts start with demanding financial accountability and gradually to questions of faith and spirituality. I and like many don’t bow, bend and crawl, but a humble salaam to give basic courteous respect, we don’t pay up for flimsy schemes, ikraams, kadambosi, paglaa, najwa etc. We don’t let amils talk down on us, we don’t run in madness for deedar darshan. There are thousands of bohras amongst the million abdes who are living a decent and respectable life with faith in their aakherat depending on deeds rather than these thugs !


My family is an extreme abde orthodox set up. There was a time, I became an eyesore to my family. They avoided, ridiculed, cursed me. With time, some members are coming around and are beginning to see kothar from my eyes. The most common chord one can touch is financial accountability. If one cannot dent the Kothari coffers, atleast one can save a hardworking man’s savings. Kothar is god forsaken monster. I am not as much worried about kothar than the people who can be saved. One at a time, I may help only a few in my lifetime, even that is enough in my conscience.


Kothar is not a fair player. It is a devious, deceptive, manipulating, treacherous, egoistic, vindictive opponent. We have seen what happened to brave souls who stood openly against Kothari oppression. I take kothar as commercial service provider, devoid of spiritual kindness.

[fayyaaz]

humanbeing,

I have dealt with your issues before. You did not get it that time. So here it is again.

You can have your categories. I have defined mine and they do not apply to the mass of Bohras beyond this forum. My categories apply to an insignificant number of 'Bohras' who are also active participants of this forum.

Let me repeat.

Bohras are those who believe in the Fatimid-Bohra religion. They include followers of SMS and SKQ. SMS has Kothar. SKQ probably also has a Kothar equivalent. In this group are devotees of the Dai who may be uncritical of their leaders whom you call abdes. They may include those who are neither anti-Kothar nor abdes. Also among them are anti-Kothar Bohras. Examples are you and Zinger. This anti-Kothar subgroup has the best chance of bringing Reform to the community.

Anti-Bohras are e-Jamaat card carrying Bohras who do not believe in Fatimid-Bohra religion.They do not accept Walayat which is evident from their postings here. They are hypocrites and include the majority of posters here. They include closet Wahhabis, followers of Yazid-loving, Wahhabi ex-Bohra, anajmi. They are both anti-Bohras and anti-Kothar. This group just rants against the clergy and bitches about its condition of both not wanting to belong to Bohras and being 'forced' to belong there by personal circumstances. This group will not bring about any Reform to the community.

There. I hope that is clear.

[anajmi]

To reiterate a bohra is not a muslim since that would require you to follow the religion of islam. A bohra is one who follows the fatimid bohra religion, whatever that is. Thanks for clarifying.

[SBM]

Learning from Master Profiler I have now created a new category of Bohras
Hypocrite SMS Bohra
This category includes Fayyaz and Maethist
Run away Bohras from answering questions posed by many
This includes Fayyaz and Adam
A die hard blind nincompoops Bohra
This includes YaHussain and Unviersaldad
Profiling everyone and repeating the same old broken record Bohra
This includes by far FAYYAAZ--FAYYAZ--FAY--AZZ--
Pathetic Life Bohras who can not find entertainment in their life and find solace at this insignificant forum
Fayyaz--Critical Thinker

[humanbeing]

Anti-Bohras are e-Jamaat card carrying Bohras who do not believe in Fatimid-Bohra religion.They do not accept Walayat which is evident from their postings here..

Wrong again ! how do you conclude that anti-kothar bohra does not have walayat ? they have walayat for honest, hard working, pious DAIs who lived in the past. they go for ziyarats, take their waseela and remember them as god fearing / god loving scholars who were far more sensible, humble and down to earth then this pompus kothar royals.

You can throw your twisted ideologies all you can. Your devious intentions are getting visible. Although difficult for a simple reader to understand as you claim to be an atheist. Your posting are obvious showing soft corner for the Kothari thugs. You seem to be a new breed or category we can an atheist abde of kothar.

[humanbeing]

Bohras are those who believe in the Fatimid-Bohra religion. They include followers of SMS and SKQ. SMS has Kothar. SKQ probably also has a Kothar equivalent..

What about alawi, sulieman and other bohra sects, who branched out with Various DAIs, they don’t believe in SMS or SKQ.

[fayyaaz]

atheist abde of kothar

human being,

Are you also intellectually-challenged?

You quote me about "anti-Bohras" and you reject it by bringing in "anti-Kothar Bohras"

Did I not just tell you that Bohras, (Fatimid-Musatalian-Bohras) include anti-Kothar Bohras like yourself? Jesus!!

For Suleimanis etc., they are not partcipants here. I have left them out of my categories. If you want to talk about my categories, leave them out too. I am talking only about SMS and SKQ. Got that?

[SBM]

Seems like the intellectually challenged person is Fayaaz himself since he could not back up his accusation with any proof and that brings questionable Credibility of his comments.
Since Fayyaz can not respond to my question about me asking him to be banned anything he says or post is questionable
Him not commenting on Mehfuza Ben--Shabbir Bhinderwala and the Mumin who was asked to resign from Bank makes him a STOOGE OF SMS and a paid lackey of Kothari Goons

[Biradar]

I still pay up, but now my paying up is more conscious, probed and effective to the project they are asking for. I get involved, I demand information and provide assistance. It is not blind pledge anymore. I encourage healthy dialogue within abde circles.

Stop paying these parasites from the family of DMMS! Just stop. Islam only requires you to pay Zakaat. Thats all. Yes, you should contribute to the upkeep of local community properties, but please don't fund the Yazidi lifestyle of DMMS* and his minions. Also, just join S Qutbuddin, even sub rosa. Don't worry about friends, family, etc. etc. They will eventually accept you as you are, or leave you alone. At which point, say "Good riddance"! Read and understand liberal Islamic/Ismaili texts like Ikhawan as-Safa, and try and understand the liberal and benevolent philosophy which S. Qutbuddin is propagating. It is a radically different vision that the nasty, narrow-minded, money-hungry, sexist ideology which DMMS is propagating. Just ditch him. That is the most radical thing you can do. Sadly, the progressive communities are in a limbo themselves, and not the correct choice, if you want to remain a Bohra in good-faith and keep your conscience too.

* DMMS: Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin

[Biradar]

Him not commenting on Mehfuza Ben--Shabbir Bhinderwala and the Mumin who was asked to resign from Bank makes him a STOOGE OF SMS and a paid lackey of Kothari Goons

Are you really that dense? Do you think someone not responding to every bad thing in the world makes one a bad person, or a stooge or paid lackey? Are you really that unintelligent? Please. I am not supporting fayyaaz, but respond to his philosophical points and don't get stuck on minor issues like a broken record. (Which, BTW, you really are. Like my 4 year old, you keep asking the same thing again and again. Grow up!)

[zinger]

Seems like the intellectually challenged person is Fayaaz himself since he could not back up his accusation with any proof and that brings questionable Credibility of his comments.
Since Fayyaz can not respond to my question about me asking him to be banned anything he says or post is questionable
Him not commenting on Mehfuza Ben--Shabbir Bhinderwala and the Mumin who was asked to resign from Bank makes him a STOOGE OF SMS and a paid lackey of Kothari Goons

Really?? Stop sounding like a broken record man, its boring. Its as boring as Fayaaz repeating his categorisation. Yes, im bored of that too and you trolling on every topic too. grow up. act your age.

[abde53]

Seems like the intellectually challenged person is Fayaaz himself since he could not back up his accusation with any proof and that brings questionable Credibility of his comments.
Since Fayyaz can not respond to my question about me asking him to be banned anything he says or post is questionable
Him not commenting on Mehfuza Ben--Shabbir Bhinderwala and the Mumin who was asked to resign from Bank makes him a STOOGE OF SMS and a paid lackey of Kothari Goons

Really?? Stop sounding like a broken record man, its boring. Its as boring as Fayaaz repeating his categorisation. Yes, im bored of that too and you trolling on every topic too. grow up. act your age.

Really Zinger bhai
How come you did not say anything about Fayyaz bhai before when he had been categorizing everyone, He say he is Aethist but he quotes Hadiths very well.
I know you do not like SMB bhai but you are also an Hypocrite like Fayaaz bhai who keep on defending the corrupt practices of SMS.
We all are spinless followers of Muffadal Moula Fayyaz bhai has been accusing SBM-AZ-GM-Humanbeing and me as well and I see SMB bhai asking for proof to establish his credibility What is wrong with that IS NOT BOTH MUFFADAL MOULA AND SYDI QUTBUDDIN MOULA ARE ALSO BEING ASKED TO PROVIDE THE PROOF OF THEIR CLAIM BY THE COURT. so why beat up on SMB bhai when he asked Fayyaza bhai to provide the proof of his accusation of banning him
looks like you and Biradar Bhai may be impressed by Fayyaz bhai's categorization but I am not