This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

[anajmi]

Here is the irony of this guys existence on this board. Is this board in any way shape or form illegal? No. Are the participants engaging in any illegal activity by being on this forum and expressing their opinions? No. Is it legal for the participanrs to say anything they want within the bounds set by the Admin who himself is within the law while providing us with this platform? Yes.

Is SBM doing anything illegal? No.
is GM doing anything illegal? No.
is Al Z doing anything illegal? No.
is anajmi doing anything illegal? No.

Then what is the [deleted]ing problem with this [deleted] wipe? Simple isn't it?

[fayyaaz]

One thing cults do is that they thrive on having enemies. Bohras have SKQ as their Satan and their wrath is directed against him. He is like Emmanuel Goldstein in 1984, the George Orwell masterpiece.

Bohras have all the ingredients of the plot of 1984. They have Kothar, the Party. They have Kothar/Dai, the Big Brother. They have Newspeak, Lisan-e-Dawat. There are equivalents of Minitirue, Minipax, Miniplenty and Miniluv among various Idaras. Their majlises are transformed into Laanat circuses just like Hate campaign and Hate-Week unashamedly resembles Ashara.

In this, anti-Bohras are no different. They have identified enemies Adam and fayyaaz. Anti-Bohras are a puny version of Kothar. They squeak rather than roar. They have no leaders. AZ, GM and Humsafar refuse to come forward. The Wahhabi Ex-Bohra is irrelevant. They have intellectual weaklings like SBM, Canadian and DisillusionedDB are their 'exemplary' followers.

This 'mighty' Underground Resistance Movement has an underbelly. They all want to have Fatimid Religion and a Dai at its head who will be less corrupt, be accountable and extend local 'democracy'. They want the whole hierarchical apparatus consisting of Imam, Dai, Sheikhs, Mullas and majlis-e-Hussein etc. The underground members want to remain inside and feed Kothar with money and help it to survive but want to have someone else go forward and become a martyr to their cause. They are all like Winston Smith of 1984. They will buckle as soon as the Kothari Lion roars. Cowards to the core!

[SBM]

Fayyaz

They have identified enemies Adam and fayyaaz.

Wrong again , they have not identified you as enemies but AS A-- KISSING ABDES AND MOUTHPIECE OF CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS KNOWN AS KOTHAR

They have intellectual weaklings like SBM, Canadian and DisillusionedDB are their 'exemplary' followers.

Atleast I am building my followers
Main Akela hee Chala thaa janebe Manzil Magar
Log Aatey gai aur Carvan Bantaa Gaya..

[Ozdundee]

Fayaz you have not answered or responded to my comment , let me help you to clarify

You stated or implied Bohras kothar operates within laws...I gave examples of FGM , Saudi , Canadian senate inquiry, Malaysia raids...where independent law custodian s , not reformists , determined Bohras operated outside the legal limits. Please explain or withdraw your assertion that Bohras always , operate within the law. Or Accept that they don't always get raza to avoid SMS or the Diai accoutability . If you say they most of the time follow the law I will excuse you.

My comment on the credit for this site was separate ..I was discussing the impact this sites have on the smooth running of kothars propaganda . I did not mean it was instrumental in the above examples..it only contributed by informing reformists ..as an independent "news" channel .

[fayyaaz]

Fayaz you have not answered or responded to my comment , let me help you to clarify

You stated or implied Bohras kothar operates within laws...I gave examples of FGM , Saudi , Canadian senate inquiry, Malaysia raids...where independent law custodian s , not reformists , determined Bohras operated outside the legal limits. Please explain or withdraw your assertion that Bohras always , operate within the law. Or Accept that they don't always get raza to avoid SMS or the Diai accoutability . If you say they most of the time follow the law I will excuse you.

My comment on the credit for this site was separate ..I was discussing the impact this sites have on the smooth running of kothars propaganda . I did not mean it was instrumental in the above examples..it only contributed by informing reformists ..as an independent "news" channel .

I do not condone illegal activities by anyone including the Dai, the Kothar or the President of the United States. I never asserted that they all always operate under the Law. My assertion is that Bohras have a right to practice their religion if they conduct their affairs peacefully with the limits of the Law. If they break the Law then they ought to be subject to legal proceedings.

FGM is illegal in the USA. Yet there is an absence of 'independent custodians' even among Bohras who could blow the whistle. I would not object if the perpetrators are brought to justice.

Saudi issue is shrouded in mystery. If Sayedna was banned from travelling there then it appears to be a secret authoritarian Saudi edict not subject to independent examination as a similar edict would be in the United States.

Canadian Senate issue appears to have been a civil rather than a criminal issue. I agree that this site has published the detail. However, I am not sure whether it has impacted Bohras in large number. In any case. similar legislation has apparently succeeded in the United Kingdom.

Tanzanian Government deported Sayedna in his contravention of Foreign Exchange Regulations operating in the country at the time. While Sayedna personally bore the brunt of the scandal, it is not clear if he was personally responsible for breaking the regulations. There was no trial.

Individual Bohras and even Kothar may break the Law and they should be liable to any penalty for breaking it. That is Justice. Bohras are like every one else. Occasionally they will break Laws. How could you deduce otherwise from my postings?

To summarize, my assertion is that Bohras have a right to practice their religion if they conduct their affairs peacefully with the limits of the Law. If their religion or their conduct, religious or otherwise, is objectionable to others then that is not an excuse to deny them the right practice their religion. That is my position. I am not a keeper of Bohras. If they break the Law then Justice must be served.

Hypocritical anti-Bohras of this site are concerned first and foremost with financial accountability and cessation of what they term 'extortion'. They unwillingly participate in perpetuating the unaccountability and the 'extortion' racket by coughing up the amounts. They dislike the religion specially the sajda to Dai, waseela, maatam etc. They remain in the community to take advantage of the facilities of 'rites of passage' and by claiming that they 'culturally' belong to the community. I suppose they are waiting for a Messiah. Would you lead them to the Promised Land?

[ghulam muhammed]

The below mentioned thread is very relevant to the subject issue :-

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2072&p=34185&hilit=poona#p34185

[anajmi]

My assertion is that Bohras have a right to practice their religion if they conduct their affairs peacefully with the limits of the Law.

Actually, everybody has a right to do whatever they want if they conduct their affairs peacefully with the limits of the Law. A wahhabi ex-bohra has every right to point out the issues with the bohra religion when done peacefully with the limits of the law. The anti-bohras have every right to oppose, curse, condemn the kothar and the Dai and their deeds when done peacefully with the limits of the law. And every bohra, ex-bohra, anti-bohra, atheist-bohra, wahhabi bohra, wahhabi ex-bohra etc etc has a right to be a hypocrite when done peacefully with the limits of the law.

And every hypocrite has a right to remain within the community to take advantage of the facilities by claiming anything they want to (like 'culturally belonging to the community ) as long as they conduct their affairs peacefully with the limits of the law. Who the [DELETED] are you to tell anyone how to conduct themselves?

[fayyaaz]

anajmi,

Yes, anti-Bohras, Wahhabi Ex-Bohra, non-Bohras all should continue condemning Bohras, their Dai, the Kothar and their religion as long as they do it peacefully within the law. That is what this forum for. Not for no reason, I have called it an anti-Bohra forum. You should be careful not to come too close to inciting hatred towards Bohras as in some countries there are laws against that sort of thing.

Carry on condemning and some anti-Bohras might decide they are not getting anywhere with this condemning thing and be persuaded to think about Reform and offer alternative within the Fatimid-Bohra tradition.

In any case you are totally irrelevant. Bohras, even most anti-Bohras, want to revere Ali and ahl-e-bayt and they are not likely to welcome dealing with a Yazid-lover.

[anajmi]

You should be careful not to come too close to inciting hatred towards Bohras as in some countries there are laws against that sort of thing.

I will worry about that when I am in those countries.

In any case you are totally irrelevant.

Irrelevancy isn't illegal is it?

are not likely to welcome dealing with a Yazid-lover.

Is being a Yazid-lover illegal?

I am not sure I understand what your problem is. Why do you keep pointing things out which are not illegal and I have a Law given right to indulge in? No one in their right mind should object to anyone loving Yazid cause it is perfectly legal for anyone to believe in any religion or any interpretation of any religion and love anyone they deem fit as long as they do it peacefully with the limits of the law. Do I have to keep reminding you of your own life line on this forum?

[anajmi]

Do I have to keep reminding you of your own life line on this forum?

Or should I say - Do I have to keep reminding you of your own hypocrisy on this forum?

Being a hypocrite isn't illegal now is it? Of course not. Otherwise you wouldn't be one now would you?

[fayyaaz]

Did I say I have any objection to you loving Yazid? Be my guest. Love him all you can.

I will not respond to you anymore on this thread.

[anajmi]

You do not object to anything now do you? Especially not when your pants suddenly catch fire. Not responding to me is your right and is not illegal. As long as you do not respond to me peacefully and with the limits of the law, I will continue responding to your bull shit peacefully and with the limits of the law. That ain't illegal either right?

[abde53]

Did I say I have any objection to you loving Yazid? Be my guest. Love him all you can.

I will not respond to you anymore on this thread.

Fayyaz Bhai
You say you are not going to respond to Anajmi Bhai, SBM bhai, GM bhai and AZ bhai so very soon you will not responds to anyone who disagrees with you so who would you respond to? Why stop responding to people because if you do then they win the argument and you loose.

[fayyaaz]

Did I say I have any objection to you loving Yazid? Be my guest. Love him all you can.

I will not respond to you anymore on this thread.

Fayyaz Bhai
You say you are not going to respond to Anajmi Bhai, SBM bhai, GM bhai and AZ bhai so very soon you will not responds to anyone who disagrees with you so who would you respond to? Why stop responding to people because if you do then they win the argument and you loose.

Did you see anajmi bhai disagreeing with me? He actually agrees with me!

I will avoid responding to anajmi and his intellectually-challenged chela SBM (only those two) because they do not disagree with me nor argue with me. They simply swear at me and condemn me. They both wanted me banned from this forum. I find it amusing that they actually want to respond to my posts.

The point of the forum, as far as I am concerned, is to argue and I will respond if appropriate to anyone's post, even anajmi's and SBM's if I desire, and only if I desire.

[anajmi]

They simply swear at me and condemn me.

Is that illegal?

[anajmi]

I will avoid responding to anajmi and his intellectually-challenged chela SBM

Have you chosen to do this because it is illegal in the country where you reside?

[DisillusionedDB]

It's surprising that no one has seen through the facade of fayyaz. He might have studied philosophy and psychology and theology and whatalogy but it seems there are no takers for his preachings in the real world so he has found an outlet here. His primary aim (he doesn't know it though) is to educate (read as "bore") us to death with his 'wealth' of knowledge. He doesn't even know what we do in the real world but he is quite quick to pass judgement on others being intellectually challenged leaders and followers. Does he know that by passing judgements on others in itself shows how shallow & narrow minded his thinking process is ? He is, of course, following a safe line of 'defending' rights of the oppressor and the oppressed as long as it is within the law. Doesn't that make him a fence-sitting hypocrite too ? Yet, by just sitting on the fence, he is condescendingly advising what the different categories of bohras should be doing. Wow.
It fails me why anyone even bothers to reply to his 'intellectually challenged' posts. I mean, tell me, after reading this entire thread, what have we basically gained ? Nothing .. zilch. Even his 'philosophical' categorization of bohras doesn't have any takers.
As for me, I, tongue-in-cheekily, say to him ... theek hai bhai, tu jeeta, main haara .. khush ? Ab chain se jeene de aur bore mat kar.

[anajmi]

Sitting on the fence might be good for fayyaaz but definitely not good for fayy"aaz", if you know what I mean.

[SBM]

Fayyaz
They both wanted me banned from this forum.

Do you have any proof that I wanted to ban you, Can you show any proof. I never asked Admin to ban you why would I, How can I expose your stupidity if I ask Admin to ban you. |
As a matter of fact you first appeared as Maethist and once we exposed your hypocrisy, you decided to change your Id and reappeared as Fayyaz
NOW IT IS ILLEGAL IN USA TO ACCUSE SOME ONE WITHOUT PROOF and it is Legal to file the law suit for defamation of character.
Now do you understand the difference between Legal and Illegal in USA
Do not try to impress that you are too important for me to get you banned. If we can tolerate YaHussain and UniversalDad we surely can tolerate you

[fayyaaz]

Yazid-loving, Wahhabi Ex-Bohra, anajmi and his two intellectually-challenged chelas SBM and DisillusionedDB are trying to convert this into an anti-fayyaaz forum. Before this thread is completely derailed I will reiterate my categories with additional information.

Participants on this forum can be divided into 5 categories.

1. Non-Bohras. They are mostly followers of Aga Khan who rarely post. They are not relevant to Reform, Their movement, though, might be a model for some reform among Bohras.

2. Ex-Bohras. There is currently only one participant in this category, anajmi. He is a self-proclaimed expert on the Quran and wants to convert Bohras to his version of Pure Islam, Wahhabism. He has minimal vocal followers, his chelas among anti-Bohras who appear to be closet Wahhabis. Ex-Bohras are totally irrelevant to any discussion of Reform in the community.

3. Bohras. These are followers of SMS and SKQ. By and large, with some reservations, they do not feel oppressed being Bohras and on this forum they defend SMS or SKQ and the religion of the Bohras against anti-Bohras. There is an interesting debate between the followers of SMS and SKQ. Some clearly want reform. They would be the ones who would lead reform from within the community.

4. Anti-Bohras. This is the largest group. they are all e-Jamaat card carrying members of the Jamaat. They complain about exploitation and oppression by the clergy and denounce SMS and to a lesser extent SKQ. They do not know what to do about their lot but to suffer. They pay up their dues and show no interest in Reform as they do not discuss any strategy concerning it. The oppression they claim is not evident in gatherings of Bohras specially when SMS is present. There is joyous welcome for him with shouts of Mola, Mola. They all pray for his long life all the time and pray tawassul namaaz for him. Anti-Bohras enumerate instances of extortion and 'rough justice' by clergy. To be sure, Bohras appear to be living in a cult that would not suit many. My advice is for them to either join Bohras to work for Reform from within or leave the cult. They will do neither. They like the comfort of bitching on this forum and that is where they will stay. Do not expect any leader to emerge from among them. Clever anti-Bohras like AZ or GM refuse to take up leadership.

5. Reformist Bohras. These are members of Udaipur Reformist Jamaat and similar Jamaats around the world. They have shown the way forward by leaving the cult and effectively forming a separate sect unaligned either to SMS or SKQ. Hardly anyone from this group participates on this forum. I believe that Humsafar and Critical Thinker are from this group but their participation here is minimal. They could teach anti-Bohras a thing or two from the lessons they learned in Udaipur.

The above categories represent an insignificant number of Bohras but does not include a great mass of Bohras who exist beyond this forum. It is claimed that this forum impacts this clearly identifiable mass in major ways. Evidence being cited is the frequency with which messages from this forum are shared on electronic social media including Whatsapp, emails and facebook, changes that have taken place in Kothar-sponsored websites and alleged constant exhortation of the clergy to keep away from this and similar forums. How deep the impact is remains to be seen.

[SBM]

Fayyaz
Stop dancing around
Show me the proof where I asked Admin to ban you. When I asked him a simple question instead of replying he started his nonsensical diatribe about profilinge (he is even wrong on most of them too) He must be working for FBI or HSA in USA because seems like he loves profiling Muslims as well not answering when asked a simple question
NOW ONE MORE TIME
DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT I ASKED ADMIN TO BAN YOU

[anajmi]

fayyaaz - Here are my categories of bohras
anajmi - This is the problem with you. You are a hypocrite.
fayyaaz - Let me tell you again about the categories of bohras.
anajmi - You just got your ass whipped didn't you.
fayyaaz - Well, did I tell you about the categories of bohras? Just in case I didn't, here it is again.
SBM - you are a liar fayyaaz.
fayyaaz - It looks like people have already forgotten my categories. Here they are again.
Al Zulfikar - Are you a drug addict?
fayyaaz - For those who didn't already know, here are my categories of bohras.
Ozdundee - The kothar is a criminal organization.
fayyaaz - Do they know about my bohra categories down under? If they don't here they are again.
anajmi - Other than irrelevant categories and legal, illegal mumbo jumbo, do you have anything substantial to offer?
fayyaaz - I am glad you asked, let me re-iterate my bohra categories.

and so it goes!!

[anajmi]

Not done yet.

Question - What is your greatest achievement?
fayyaaz - My bohra categories.
Question - What is the one thing you are most proud of?
fayyaaz - My bohra categories.
Question - What would you like to be remembered by?
fayyaaz - My bohra categories.
Question - What is the one thing you would keep reminding people about yourself?
fayyaaz - My bohra categories.
Question - What do you think of the most?
fayyaaz - My bohra categories.
Question - What will you teach your children?
fayyaaz - My bohra categories.
Question - Any tips on how to live life?
fayyaaz - My bohra categories.
Question - What should the reformist do to reform bohras?
fayyaaz - Look at my bohra categories.
Question - How would you reform the Dawoodi Bohra community?
fayyaaz - Create bohra categories.
Question - How would you address the corruption within the bohra community?
fayyaaz - Create bohra categories.
Question - How would you tackle the wahhabi problem?
fayyaaz - Create bohra categories.
Question - How would you solve world hunger?
fayyaaz - Create bohra categories.

[fayyaaz]

I cannot tell how all participants here view my categories. Only the Ex-Bohra and a few anti-Bohras have commented upon them negatively. But the greatest impact has been on the Yazid-loving, Wahhabi Ex-Bohra and his intellectually-challenged chelas. They seem to be festering within and trying to score points by turning this into an anti-fayyaaz thread. They concentrate on categories not what I have to say about them. If they want me to disappear why are they in the forefront keeping this thread alive? They are a great fuel for the life of this thread. Wonderful!

Categories are arbitrary. I use them to focus on those who might do something about Reform of the Bohras, the main objective of this site. I have eliminated Ex-Bohra from that enterprise and doubt if any anti-Bohra is up to the task. That leaves disaffected Bohras who must be the ideal people to be targeted in the Reform enterprise. They need to be attracted to this site. Preponderance of posts by the one Ex-Bohra and anti-Bohras clearly is not sufficient to attract that type of Bohra to this site.

Would some Bohras care to comment? I wonder.

[SBM]

If they want me to disappear why are they in the forefront keeping this thread alive?

So you DISprove yourself that I never asked Admin to ban you.. Keep on talking and you can show your own inconsistencies in your statements
Seems like defender himself needs a defender for his hyperbolic claims
DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT I ASKED ADMIN TO BAN YOU

[anajmi]

If they want me to disappear why are they in the forefront keeping this thread alive?

As SBM rightly pointed out, by falsely claiming that people want you banned, you have been trying to raise your value. Unfortunately for you, the abdes, whom you are trying to defend, are too dumb to come to your aid. You are on your own and there is nothing illegal about hammering you and your categories, is there?

And in fact, you have been trying to get some of your categories banned from this forum by pointing out again and again in your categorizations that they are not useful for reform. Not being useful for reform is not illegal is it?

[anajmi]

Any one heard of a "One Trick Pony" ? Can you apply it to fayyaaz and his categories?

I propose a new category called "One Trick Pony" and make fayyaaz it's first member.

[abde53]

They simply swear at me and condemn me. They both wanted me banned from this forum. I find it amusing that they actually want to respond to my posts.

Fayyaz Bhai
You say they swear at you but you are the one who is calling anjami bhai, wahabi ex bohra and SBM bhai as intellectually challenged, to me you are the one who is swearing at them .Biradar Bhai and others did praise you for your postings and supported you but looks they have decided to pull away to let you-Anajmi bhai and SBM bhai fight it out among yourselves
you are also not giving a reply to SBM bhai if you have any proof that he asked admin to ban you.
I am not too amused with your categories either,

[fayyaaz]

abde53 has a soft spot for Yazid-loving, Wahhabi Ex-Bohra and his intellectually-challenged chela SBM.

abde53, presumably a follower of SMS, appears to be a closet Wahhabi!

[SBM]

^
Here he goes again since he can not substantiate his false claims now he just swears on others and labels them typically hypocrite
So let us see it started like this
Anajmi followed by SBM followed by DillusionedDB followed by Abde53,, Who is next on your list of being labeled as Wahabi
CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION
ANY PROOF THAT I ASKED ADMIN TO BAN YOU
seems like Fayyaz is the reincarnation of Adam whenever asked for proof they divert the attention or just disappear or pretend not to read the post