This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

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anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#151

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:24 am

Actually, the law doesn't prevent me from having a view about anyone's religion as long as I do not use violence. So my view is that bohra religion is not Islam but a form a idol worship. Again, I am expressing this view without the desire to commit any violence against any bohra cause a lot of my family is still bohra.

So, again, without violence, bohras are being taken for a ride by their leader. In the name of Islam he is cheating them. He promises them heaven but will lead them to hell fire as per the Quran. Again, I am saying this without the intention to commit violence.

He forces them to do sajda to him, like the pharoah, which is against Islam, but I will not commit any violence against him or those who do sajda to him.

My new motto is No violence. None at all.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#152

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:29 am

That is OK. You are entitled to your views and they are entitled to theirs. You carry on ridiculing them, calling them idol-worshipers, kafirs, mushriks and anything else from your book. You have been doing it for fourteen years. You may do it for at least another fourteen.

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#153

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:35 am

Thank you. I, of course will provide evidence against their ridiculous beliefs and will not whine and cry like atheists do when hammered. But I am referring to the non-violent kind of hammering. Violent kind of hammering is illegal. I am talking about the metaphorical hammering. I hope you understand. I am not going to use any violence, even though I have actually never used any violence, but I will repeat with every post that whatever I am expressing is without the desire to commit any violence. This is my solemn pledge. No violence. Not even through emoji's. Well, the Admin fortunately doesn't have any violent emojis. But I normally use :wink: and :mrgreen: . Do you think they are too violent? How about showing a middle finger? Is that violence. I just want to make sure I follow your guidelines for non-violence so I can express my utter disgust about this bohra religion that is destroying the bohra's here and hereafter without any violence.

My new motto is No violence. None at all.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#154

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:37 pm

fayyaaz wrote: I divide participants into 4 groups: Non-Bohras, Ex-Bohras, anti-Bohras and Bohras.


4. Bohras. They are the true believers and followers of SMS. Some have an issue regarding the nomination of SMS as the Leader and have a choice about following SMS or his rival SKQ.
I would add that there is a lively quarrel being conducted by Bohras, the fourth group, on this forum by the followers of SMS, represented by Adam and the followers of SKQ represented by haqniwaat. In my view, this is, by far, the most interesting aspect of this forum even though there is a limited number of Bohras on the forum.

The rest of the forum is :

a. continuous re-hashing of one issue by anti-Bohras, that leadership and clergy are corrupt and that is all they do using different words and anecdotes. And of course the continuous bashing of Bohras, with insults thrown in for good measure

b. continuous rehashing of one issue by ex-Bohras, that of accusing Bohras of shirk, kufr and idol-worship with their battle cry "My Quran and My Sunnah". And of course, the continuous bashing of everyone except those who are clearly supporting anajmi, such as SBM, candadian, GM and several others.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

SBM
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#155

Unread post by SBM » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:51 pm

Fayyaz
So what other topics we should discuss
Can you also tell Kothar not to do Ashura Bayaan because that is the same story they keep telling too...year after year--day after day---

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#156

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:13 pm

SBM wrote:Fayyaz
So what other topics we should discuss
Can you also tell Kothar not to do Ashura Bayaan because that is the same story they keep telling too...year after year--day after day---
You could perhaps take a hint from my posts. You all could discuss how you could reform the community while keeping the Bohra religion intact including the traditional mode of the choice of the person occupying the seat of the Dai. This applies to anti-Bohras but they have to discuss the approaches they could use except ridiculing the leadership and shouting down the Bohras. Remeber, Bohras do not want any discussion of Reforms with anti-Bohras. So, if anti-Bohras want to engage them in that endeavor, they will have to drastically alter their current stance.

Unfortunately for you though, you have declared yourself to be an ex-Bohra, and therefore, Bohras will not discuss Reforms with you. I suggest you continue supporting anjajmi in his tirades with the slogan "My Quran and My Sunnah". Or you can change your mind and first become an anti-Bohra so that the jump is not too abrupt. Later, you can become a Bohra after you have persuaded the Bohras to reform. Ashura Bayan, like their farz and sunnat prayers will remain unchanged except, in their case, if their leaders desire a change. Just as they would remain unchanged for ex-Bohras, like yourself.

Just to remind you the categories non-Bohras, ex-Bohras, anti-Bohras and Bohras, as I have defined, apply only to participants on this forum.

alam
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#157

Unread post by alam » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:36 pm

The many many shades of bohras:

Braindead bohra
Brainwashed bohra
True Mumin according SKQ Bohras
True Mumin according to SMS Bohras
Goonda giri Bohras
Bullying Bohras
Generous Bohras
Truly confused Pretending MS Bohras
Pretending to be confused and truly SKQ supporting Bohras
Desperate to hold on to straws MS supporting Bohras
Grudgingly accepting KQ Bohra
On the fence KQ supporters
Frequent fence jumper SKQ/SMS supporter Bohra
Leave- me- Alone bohra
My family still Bohra Bohra
Wahhabi-leaning Bohra
KOthari goonda Bohra
Trapped in Kothar Bohra
Trapped in QasreAali Bohra
Trapped in Jamaat board, khidmat guzaar Bohra
Economically trapped in Bohra infrastructure Bohra
Innocent Bohra
Shirk-leaning Bohra
Idol-worshipping bohra
Greedy Bohra
Corrupt Bohra
Tired of being Bohra
One size fits all Bohra

One can Go and on.

Just a plain old- fashioned all-encompassing Dawoodi Bohra seems just fine for this forum..

The descriptors and categories serves its purpose for dividing people and short-cutting productive dialogue.

fayyaaz
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#158

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:16 pm

alam,

Your list is not very useful for categorizing participants of this forum. I have taken pains to emphasize that my categories apply only to the participants of this forum. You can apply your list to Bohras that you know about outside of this forum, that is, the non-participants. You may wish to apply some of your categories to participants here. Do you have a participant here in mind for goonda giri?

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#159

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:43 pm

A corollary to my posts today is a suggestion to Bohras not to engage in any discussion with Ex-Bohras regarding "their Quran" and "their Sunnah". You are aware that you have your own interpretation of the Quran and your version of Sunnah. Non-Bohras have been arguing with Bohras and other Shia about this issue for centuries. There will be nothing new and everything that needs to be said on both sides has already been said. And they have no business discussing Reforms with you because it does not concern them. If non-Bohras insist on butting in conversation, keep cool and just smile.

My suggestion for Bohras to deal with anti-Bohras is to be aware of their hypocrisy but entertain suggestions for Reform if they are genuinely for the 'betterment' of the community as variously defined and agreed.

My suggestion for anti-Bohras is to become Ex-Bohras or change the tactics so that you can make Bohras listen to your arguments for Reform, if you have any. Also, try to keep distance from Ex-Bohras if you want to be taken seriously by Bohras.

Otherwise, just carry on as usual. You will get entertained, exasperated, bored etc. and you will have used up your time for no worthwhile purpose.

alam
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#160

Unread post by alam » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:11 pm

I don't find it useful to categorize participants in any categories. Even the title of this thread is no better.

Fayyaz,
Of course one could find participants belonging to " goonda giri" category, or for that matter, for any of the other categories. Just because one could "box" a participant in a particular category doesn't by itself make it Useful or wise to do so. Just because you could, doesn't mean you should.

For example, if Alam is in category of "snake bohra", then, theoretically everything Alam says could be twisted, turned and bent to make it FIT that category. Sooner or later, Alam may find himself boxed in and start "defending" his so- called namesake, which now creates another problem for purposes of this forum (which is debate and dialogue).

Now take it a bit further. Over time, perhaps Alam might write something which a few participants could agree that it was indeed "snake-like". They convince him of it, and before you know it, Alam starts believing he is indeed a "snake bohra" and then buries himself deeper and deeper in the shadowy mounds of the soil. He begins to think and write what he imagines a "snake" would, and this proves his name callers right. All the while, fighting and defending his newly acquired title!

This is just a tip of the surface of what I see happening with this trend toward putting people in boxes, categories, which very quickly degenerates into name calling, and stifles healthy debate. It unnecessarily weds people more firmly to their earlier stated views and prohibits flexibility in thinking, making sound arguments, etc.

Rest assured, fayyaz, I too took great pains to come up with this list - you have no idea what demons I had to fight to make this list here.

On another note, the "participants" in this forum are not limited to the writers. The READERS of this forum is the whole worldwideweb of Bohras, who at one time or another, stumble upon is site, and " relate to" or "identify" with a particular participant writer. So there are far more participants than just the writers here.

If you must categorize Bohras, I'm afraid you are going to have to far more thorough and DESCRIPTIVE, albeit, yes, painful, than the 4 arbitrary categories you have come up with.

The categories you list are at best useless, so is the title of this thread.

fayyaaz
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#161

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:25 pm

alam wrote: On another note, the "participants" in this forum are not limited to the writers. The READERS of this forum is the whole worldwideweb of Bohras, who at one time or another, stumble upon is site, and " relate to" or "identify" with a particular participant writer. So there are far more participants than just the writers here.

If you must categorize Bohras, I'm afraid you are going to have to far more thorough and DESCRIPTIVE, albeit, yes, painful, than the 4 arbitrary categories you have come up with.
Of course, my group is arbitrary. I take it as valid your statement that 'participants' are not just the contributors but include readers too. That is fine. If they do not contribute then these categories are irrelevant to them.

I sympathize with the rest of your post but do not see the need to change my categories. I have already changed my categories from the two, non-bohras and anti-bohras to include two more, the ex-bohras and bohras and have defined all of them for my purpose. These categories are broad to include everyone. Too many categories will make the whole exercise meaningless. Rather the deal with categories, I suggest you discuss the issues that I have outlined. Although, I do not expect that the forum members will take notice and they will carry on mud-slinging like they have been doing.

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#162

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:01 pm

And fayyaaz will defend the right of anyone to sling mud, as long as you are not slinging actual mud violently.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#163

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:10 pm

anajmi wrote:And fayyaaz will defend the right of anyone to sling mud, as long as you are not slinging actual mud violently.
Yes, if that is your religion, "your Islam" 8) 8) 8)

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#164

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:17 pm

Let us not worry about what is Islamic and what is not. Let us simply stay focused on staying within the non-violent portion of the law. Not everything allowed by the law is Islamic. But as long as one is operating within the law, fayyaaz will defend the right of anyone to operate within the law and that includes non-violent mud slinging.

fayyaaz
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#165

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:28 pm

anajmi wrote:Let us not worry about what is Islamic and what is not. Let us simply stay focused on staying within the non-violent portion of the law. Not everything allowed by the law is Islamic. But as long as one is operating within the law, fayyaaz will defend the right of anyone to operate within the law and that includes non-violent mud slinging.
Some countries have laws against hate-speech. What constitutes hate-speech will be determined by legal counsel. While you have right to mud-slinging, do remain within the limits of the Laws of your country.

Remember my example of walking alone in the middle of the night in sleazy, gang-infested neighborhoods of Los Angeles. Although you are within your rights to do it, you take the risk of being attacked. And you may not have anyone to defend you. Some of these neighborhoods are no-go areas even for the police.

It is always tactful to mud-sling in private in case you upset those who do not share your passions. According to their religion, Bohras curse some people respected by others. They have the right but they ought really to do it in private. 8)
Last edited by fayyaaz on Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

fayyaaz
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#166

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:37 pm

Until such time in the future when all babies born will be required by law to have thought-monitoring devices implanted in their brains, it will be difficult to legislate against thoughts. Let us wait for the Brave New World to come about, thanks to advancement in Science, when those harboring illegal thoughts can be instantly vaporized. Until then, let us keep our nasty thoughts about others to ourselves and within our in-groups. :)

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#167

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:46 pm

You see how soon the hypocrisy of this fool manifested itself? First it was violence that was prohibited and now this hypocrite wants to punish people for their thoughts. So much for fighting for the rights of others!!! You have been caught with your pants down my friend. Time for you to go hide in a sewer somewhere cause the first one to be vaporized will be you.

fayyaaz
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#168

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:54 pm

anajmi wrote:You see how soon the hypocrisy of this fool manifested itself? First it was violence that was prohibited and now this hypocrite wants to punish people for their thoughts. So much for fighting for the rights of others!!! You have been caught with your pants down my friend. Time for you to go hide in a sewer somewhere cause the first one to be vaporized will be you.
:lol: 8) 8)

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#169

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:55 pm

Remember my example of walking alone in the middle of the night in sleazy, gang-infested neighborhoods of Los Angeles. Although you are within your rights to do it, you take the risk of being attacked. And you may not have anyone to defend you. Some of these neighborhoods are no-go areas even for the police.
So are you the one walking and am I the bad neighbourhood? Cause I don't see you attacking anyone being the coward that you are.
It is always tactful to mud-sling in private in case you upset those who do not share your passions.
Well, I sling quite a lot of mud in private as well. This is a public forum and privacy of participants is protected. If you have counter arguments, you are welcome to present them. But other than whining and complaining. no one has seen jack shit from you. At least come up with some argument to defend your masters. Man, you are one dickless prick. Now isn't that an oxymoron eh? :wink:

fayyaaz
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#170

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:01 pm

anajmi,

You are rattled? Cool :!: 8)

You must remember that I do not defend those who in your very unwholesome imagination :?: believe to be my 'Masters'. I only defend their rights to hold their views. I will let them present their arguments to you, but I would advise them against it. My arguments are for my point of view which are on full display here.

That you are rattled and must resort to abusing me is a good sign. I welcome that. Are you exasperated? Hit "Your Quran" and "Your Sunnah", and your condition will soon evaporate. :lol:

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#171

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:53 pm

Not sure if you watch Bones or not, but the one that relayed on the Thursday this week had profanity as one of the subjects. Her 4 year old daughter uses the work "jackass" and Bones comments that "Numerous studies have shown that profanity can be quite beneficial when used in moderation."
"Use of occasional profanity has been linked to increased circulation, elevated endorphins and an overall sense of calmness." "A healthy alternative to physical violence.".

Don't worry my hypocrite friend. Unlike you, I don't dance around. Your hypocrisy showed up when you advocated violence for people harboring illegal thoughts, whose legality, I assume, will be judged by you. No different than a murderous wahhabi. What a shame. Didn't take me even a 150 posts to expose you, or didn't take even a 150 posts for you to turn into a murdering wahhabi.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#172

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:06 pm

anajmi wrote:Your hypocrisy showed up when you advocated violence for people harboring illegal thoughts, ....
This is what I wrote.
fayyaaz wrote:Until such time in the future when all babies born will be required by law to have thought-monitoring devices implanted in their brains, it will be difficult to legislate against thoughts. Let us wait for the Brave New World to come about, thanks to advancement in Science, when those harboring illegal thoughts can be instantly vaporized. Until then, let us keep our nasty thoughts about others to ourselves and within our in-groups. :)
Did I advocate violence for people harboring illegal thoughts? I was prognosticating an unwholesome outcome which will be welcomed by Pure Muslims like yourself.

You know that I would defend the rights of all to harbor any thoughts and would fight to consider any of them illegal. As usual, you went off the tangent and put your own ludicrous spin on my post. But hey, you are entitled to do that too. Cool! 8)

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#173

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:31 pm

Another about turn? I know an actual spine cannot be re-grown, but a metaphorical one certainly can be. Try growing one you coward. If you were talking about the Pure Muslims, then according to you, these pure muslims do not need laws and legislature to commit violence. Who need laws and legislature to hide behind, while committing their crimes? Cowards like you my hypocrite friend.

And this is what you said.
Until such time in the future when all babies born will be required by law to have thought-monitoring devices implanted in their brains, it will be difficult to legislate against thoughts.

DisillusionedDB
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#174

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:22 am

fayyaaz wrote:
SBM wrote:Fayyaz
So what other topics we should discuss
Can you also tell Kothar not to do Ashura Bayaan because that is the same story they keep telling too...year after year--day after day---
You all could discuss how you could reform the community while keeping the Bohra religion intact including the traditional mode of the choice of the person occupying the seat of the Dai.
Don't want to butt in but couldn't help commenting on your statement above.
To be precise, that's exactly what this forum was created for but ever so often it gets derailed by those wanting to have their 15 minutes of fame. These 15-minute-fame guys come in with guns blazing and eventually slink away quietly into the night after being whipped by stalwarts like SBM, AZ, GM, Anajmi etc. So the analysis of bohra/anti-bohra/non-bohra/ex-bohra is practically useless for the objectives of this forum.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#175

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:51 am

DisillusionedDB wrote: To be precise, that's exactly what this forum was created for but ever so often it gets derailed by those wanting to have their 15 minutes of fame. These 15-minute-fame guys come in with guns blazing and eventually slink away quietly into the night after being whipped by stalwarts like SBM, AZ, GM, Anajmi etc. So the analysis of bohra/anti-bohra/non-bohra/ex-bohra is practically useless for the objectives of this forum.
SBM, anajmi. Two ex-bohras who have no doubt contributed immensely to the reform of Bohras. :lol:

AZ and GM, two anti-Bohras whose main contribution to reform is insulting the Dai and Bohras. :lol: I must admit AZ is a class act all his own with a brilliant display of verbal gymnastics!

The quartet whips fayyaz and anyone else so they can carry on comfortably with their shenanigans. And the toli has lots of hangers-on and admirers like DisillusionedDB and about a dozen others.

Keep the party going, guys. You are best qualified to bring reform to the community. You are the life blood of this forum.

But like Vampires, you also need fresh blood to keep your existence going. I will oblige until I get bored. Happy sucking. :lol:

DisillusionedDB
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#176

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:55 am

fayyaaz wrote: You are best qualified to bring reform to the community.
Let the members decide who is qualified to bring reform to the community. Certainly not you.
fayyaaz wrote:I will oblige until I get bored.
Really ? Obliging US ? So considerate of you to 'bore' us with your 'shenanigans'

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#177

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:53 am

Don't you wish that the bohras could produce at least one Van Helsing after all that chest beating and Ya Hussain chants? Infact, cowards like fayyaaz are ready to even supply blood to the vampires. What a shame!!

fayyaaz
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#178

Unread post by fayyaaz » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:43 am

To summarize my categorization of active participants of this forum (that is, those who post and do not include those who merely browse):

1. Non-Bohras - Rare postings by people born in religions other than Bohra. Not relevant to any discussion about Reform.

2. Ex-Bohras - A subset of virulent anti-Bohras who have left the community and have adopted a variant of Sunni sectarian religion, particularly its extreme form, Wahhabism. A minority among participants, they are very prolific in their postings. They are not interested in Reform but seek to wean Bohras away from their religion and make them turn to their version 'Pure Islam'.

3. Anti-Bohras - Bohras who no longer believe in basic tenets of modern Bohra religion which they believe is corrupted and hijacked by the Leadership particularly the adoption, in their view, of non-Islamic and anti-Islamic ideas and practices. They are card-carrying members of the community and remain there for family and social reasons and to take advantage of the services that the community offers for important rites of passage. Some of them hark back to 'pristine Fatimid religion' of the Medieval Fatimid Empire. They form the majority on this forum but their views display a lack of deep knowledge about the history and religion of the Bohras. They seek Reform of the community but they almost never discuss the steps that they would take to do that.

4. Bohras - Followers of SMS or SKQ. The two groups have identical religion except that they disagree on who the current leader is. They are a minority and their dispute about the right Leader as debated on this forum is currently the most interesting part of the forum. Their support for their Dai, particularly SMS, is ridiculed by both the Ex-Bohras and anti-Bohras and they are frequently hounded out and made to shut up. A tiny minority here but has some participants appear to be knowledgeable about their history and religion. They distrust ex-Bohras and anti-Bohras and are not interested in discussing Reforms with them.

These 4 groups are an insignificant part (less than 1 in 1000) of the community. I do not make any comment on views held by the vast majority of Bohras which do not participate here but a view prevalent among participants, particularly ex-Bohras and anti-Bohras, is that this forum is a major source of information and influences this non-participating majority. That remains to be proven.

SBM
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#179

Unread post by SBM » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:10 pm

Admin
This Fayaaz aka Maethist v/s Anajmi thread has gone too long and it seems there is not much contribution from Fayyaz. May be time to restrict him and I do hope a request can be sent to Anjami to also stop replying to every idiotic post by Fayyaza
BTW for Kothari Planted Fayyaz, I am a Dawoodi Bohra with E Jamaat card and I did attend a Nikkah ceremony at in NJ Mosque and no one dared stop me. Since the event was paid by people who invited me it was not free loading as your Chamchas would jump to accuse me.
So I have full rights to go to any Mosque including Bohras as they are enjoying US Tax supported NON PROFIT Status.
I am not rear kisser of SMS like you. I decide on my own terms when I do go and what I do and I challenge you and your Kothari Masters to stop me if and when I do go to any Markaz or Masjid.
This will be my last post to the Moronic Fayyaaz aka Maethist

anajmi
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Re: This is a non-Bohra or anti-Bohra forum

#180

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:43 pm

I agree with SBM. Time to close this thread. This thread is like Groundhog Day with fayyaaz repeating the same crap over and over again.