Agha khan's son refuses to take over

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accountability
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Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#1

Unread post by accountability » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:31 pm

last night one of my agha khani friend told me that Agha Khan's son has refused to take over the reign from his father. Current agha khan is 49th imam. they also call agha khan muala. I was wondering what will happen to divine imamic revelation. it is said that this progeny was to continue till qiyamat. either the qiyamat is around the corner, or . Agha khan was leading his community in secular ways, though he has much bigger following than bohras, but he has not created Ismaili seat of learning like our jamia.
but here it bags the same question for us too. we follow the same doctrine. almost the same. let us see when do we have one shehzada refusing.

Abuzer
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#2

Unread post by Abuzer » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:56 pm

This is interesting, bohra fight for seat and agha khani refuses, I wonder who is better?

SBM
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#3

Unread post by SBM » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:02 pm

, but he has not created Ismaili seat of learning like our jamia.
He has created many Isamili Chairs of learning in many reputed Universities around the world, They do have a Chair for Ismaili learning in Harvard and just opened a Ismaili Muslim Museum in Toronto. Unlike Dawoodi Bohras he provides a large sum of money for Islamic studies around the world.

accountability
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#4

Unread post by accountability » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:01 pm

SBM you are right. he has established many seats in various universities. i wanted to say was, he has not established a brain washing jamia like seminaries, where he brain washes the younger generation.

JC
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#5

Unread post by JC » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:35 pm

This is indeed interesting ......

The Aga Khan 'shows' a chain or a family tree if you will to prove he is direct descendant of Nizar, son of Ismaili Imam Mustansir, and hence their Imam. Now, if his son refuses to take over, what next? does he have only one son? if the only son refuses to take over can he pass on 'Imamat' to his brother? This I am sure is not acceptable to them as Aga Khanis strictly believe in Father/Son chain, and that is the reason for them Imam Hassan was not an Imam. Ali being first Imam and Hussain being second.

What is Imam has no son?? (well this has been debated and the argument given is that Allah will take care of this and it is unlikely that an Imam has no son).

But this refusal brings us back to square one - flaws in theory of Imamat.

If only son refuses and brother cannot take over, I guess than Aga Khanis should follow Bohra tradition, appoint a Dai ............ :roll:

accountability
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#6

Unread post by accountability » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:25 pm

or just season finale :)

salim
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#7

Unread post by salim » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:30 pm

accountability wrote:last night one of my agha khani friend told me that Agha Khan's son has refused to take over the reign from his father.
Dear Accountability the statement that your Ismaili friend made is flawed. It is Imam who appoints his next Imam. Contenders of next Imam do not have to fill their request. Also it looks like this was take very out of context. What I have heard is once, one of the three sons of Imam said to a few Ismaili leaders that the amount of time and energy that Imam puts towards Aga Khan Foundation is so much that it is not easy for anyone do take his seat. He (the current Imam) scarifies all his personal and family life for the betterment of Ismailis.
accountability wrote:Current agha khan is 49th imam. they also call agha khan muala. I was wondering what will happen to divine imamic revelation. it is said that this progeny was to continue till qiyamat. either the qiyamat is around the corner, or
Or the statement amde by ismaili friend is not correct, or the Imam has more than one son(Imam has 3 sons), or the imamat will go to grand son. We Ismailis believe that many times in the history people doubt about the next Imam, but there is no end to Imamat. Look at history Hazart Ali, Imam Zainul Abideen, Imam Ismail, Even many use to doubt that after 47th there will not be any more Imams. No one had the capacity to fill the shoes of 47th Imam. But 48th Imam Sir Sultan Muhammad Shah did pretty good job. And then many said that no one can fill the shoes of Sir Sultan Muhammad Shah. If you look at where recent history of last 50 years, current Aga Khan was able to take Ismailis to the height that Ismailis at the time of 48th Imam can't even imagine.

salim
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#8

Unread post by salim » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:50 pm

JC wrote:This is indeed interesting ......
But this refusal brings us back to square one - flaws in theory of Imamat.

If only son refuses and brother cannot take over, I guess than Aga Khanis should follow Bohra tradition, appoint a Dai ............ :roll:
It is not easy to be an Imam(Shia Imam), Imam offer his entire life for betterment of community. So much scarifies and so little in return. He has always scarified his family life. He being the biggest donor to Aga Khan foundation, he has scarified most of his wealth as well.

Specially if you look at between the 2008 - 2012 recession years. On one hand ismaili leaders were having hard time in raising funds in west for different project, on other hands thousands and thousands of ismaili families were displaced in Syria. When leaders started pressuring Jamat for funds by requesting them via phone calls, Imam asked all the leaders to stop approaching Jamat and only take donations if Jamat approach the leaders. So that no pressure is build up on those who are not paying, Imam asked leaders not to make donation a status symbol. Because of recession many families did not donate, which is understood. Many more families wanted monitory help. Imam end up selling many of his personal assets.

If he would not have been Imam he would have easily become one of the richest people on the earth. So its not fun or easy to be Imam. As a Imam you have so much accountability towards the Jamat.

Abuzer
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#9

Unread post by Abuzer » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:02 am

salim wrote:
accountability wrote: current Aga Khan was able to take Ismailis to the height that Ismailis at the time of 48th Imam can't even imagine.
Yes that is correct and I agree with you, he took you guys to new lows where you left namaz roza haj Muharram and all other ehkaam of shariyah, he really took you to knew lows which no Imam would have imagined. may be now you guys have much more money but that is on expense of akhirah so it doesn't counts.

Congrats.

Abuzer
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#10

Unread post by Abuzer » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:05 am

He is running a corporate house and yes he might be a good CEO but where is spirituality?

SBM
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#11

Unread post by SBM » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:59 am

Abuzer wrote:He is running a corporate house and yes he might be a good CEO but where is spirituality?
And where is spirituality among Abde Bohras, Atleast current Aga Khan does not AARTI done on him, He does not hug a barely dressed Hindu false god. He does not give out million of rupees to buy Political favors.
By the way under current Aga Khan, it has become mandatory for his followers to pray namaz, do Rozas while he has taken projects to help re build Islamic structures and preserve Islamic architecture and history. Now let us compare that with other Muslim leaders, Among Bohras importance is given to More Maatam, Darees, Ziyaafats, Qadamboosi instead of Namaz. While Bukharis of sunni are celebrating crowning his own sons to take over while Jamia Masjid of Delhi is in bad shape.
Let us be honest before criticizing.They may not be perfect but considering others it seems to me that he is on right track while other Muslim leaders including Bohra Clergy going on the Wrong track

Abuzer
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#12

Unread post by Abuzer » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:27 am

SBM wrote:
Abuzer wrote:He is running a corporate house and yes he might be a good CEO but where is spirituality?
And where is spirituality among Abde Bohras, Atleast current Aga Khan does not AARTI done on him, He does not hug a barely dressed Hindu false god. He does not give out million of rupees to buy Political favors.
By the way under current Aga Khan, it has become mandatory for his followers to pray namaz, do Rozas while he has taken projects to help re build Islamic structures and preserve Islamic architecture and history. Now let us compare that with other Muslim leaders, Among Bohras importance is given to More Maatam, Darees, Ziyaafats, Qadamboosi instead of Namaz. While Bukharis of sunni are celebrating crowning his own sons to take over while Jamia Masjid of Delhi is in bad shape.
Let us be honest before criticizing.They may not be perfect but considering others it seems to me that he is on right track while other Muslim leaders including Bohra Clergy going on the Wrong track
there is a huge difference

bohra dai is just a dai and he is prone to make mistakes while agha khan claims to be IMAM.

salim
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#13

Unread post by salim » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:53 pm

Abuzer wrote:
salim wrote:
Yes that is correct and I agree with you, he took you guys to new lows where you left namaz roza haj Muharram and all other ehkaam of shariyah
Namaz & Dua: To save themself from fundamentalism Khoja Ismailis in India were not very much into Namaz & Roza. But under current Imam it is changing fast. Khoja Ismailis have started reciting Namaz more and more along with their Dua which they use to recite 3 times a day. Also Khojas are just a minority among Nizari Ismailis. Rest of the ismailis always did Namaz and Roza.

Roza While Roza was already norm a decade back. Khoja Ismailis adopted Roza, there are some old people who do not keep Rozi, but it is more because of their healt. In Ismailis, Rozi of different senses (eyes, noise, hearing, etc) are also emphasized. Character building plays a big role. Just donating money and forgetting is not the right way, you help someone and follow up is also emphasized. So that they can guide those in needs with more than just money.

Huj was always compulsory to all the ismailis. But we ismailis believe that one should not go to huj by borrowing money on credit, or scarifying family responsibilities. Since Ismailis are getting richer now, more and more ismailis are going for Huj.

Muharam was always there. In the month of Muharram, Ismailis remember the scarifies of Ismaili Imam Hussain. They remind themselves to stand against falsehood even when they are in minority. Marriages and celebrations does not take place in Muharram. Specially in the month of Muharram, you will see many lectures on life of Imam Hussain. Many top scholars with Phds from top universities (ismailis and non-ismailis) are invited to share their knowledge with the Jamat. There is no chest beating and lanat sending. Like Bohras for Ismailis also Muharram is the month of sadness and the month of gathering courage to fight against corrupt authorities and remember the scarifies that Imam Hussein made.

salim
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#14

Unread post by salim » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:58 pm

SBM wrote: By the way under current Aga Khan, it has become mandatory for his followers to pray namaz, do Rozas while he has taken projects to help re build Islamic structures and preserve Islamic architecture and history.
In past Khoja Ismailis to protect themselves from fundamentalism, they created a separate identity. But this is fading away. Since they are no more into life danger. BJP & RSS requested a lot to Khoja Ismailis to join them in their fight against Islam & Muslims world. The Goal of BJP and RSS was to include more muslim faces & names, so that they can cheat other Muslims and moderates. Since Ismailis are peace loving community they rejected any kind of involvement in violence, destruction of Islam.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:53 pm

SBM wrote:He does not give out million of rupees to buy Political favors.
Inspite of he not giving millions of rupees to political leaders and butchers of muslims like Modi, his community till date is spared by the Hindutva brigade from forceful conversions unlike the Bohras who are now being targeted inspite of their Dai draping a shawl, felicitating in Masjids and giving billions to the RSS leader Modi.

salim
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#16

Unread post by salim » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:30 pm

Abuzer wrote:He is running a corporate house and yes he might be a good CEO but where is spirituality?
Why do you think that there is no spirituality? Our spirituality is based on Quran and teachings of prophet Muhammad. Here are a few things we are involved in. Which one of this, do you think goes against Quran and Sunna. We believe that this is what Muhammad did in his entire life and we try to follow him.

Support poor and needy We are one of the smaller sects of Islam, but AKDN (Aga Khan Development Network) is one of the biggest non profit organization in whole world. The AKDN works in 30 countries around the world. It employs approximately 80,000 people, the majority of whom are based in developing countries. 2.3 Billion Dollars are spend annually.

Education Education is given at most importance. AKES (Aga Khan Education Services) currently operates over 200 schools and advanced educational programmes that provide quality pre-school, primary, secondary, and higher secondary education services to more than 50,000 students. Many of these schools offer world class education. And yes, these 200 schools are not the madarassas where we ismailis get religious education. That is altogether a different board.

Helping people in need Microfinance To help those who are in need Aga Khan Agency for Microfinance employee 3,371 people. In 2010, these institutions were able to support 309,976 microfinance and SME loans with US $226.6 million in loans disbursed. These are no-interest loans to poor and needy.

Preserving our culture and past Aga khan Museum, Aga Khan Program for Islamic Architecture at Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology are few recent initiative. There is a sub division of Aga Khan Trust for Culture that focuses on revitalization of historic cities. check this out http://www.akdn.org/hcp/projects.asp

Pluralism & Equality We treat every humans equal. We are known for our efforts in pluralism here are a few recent activities - http://www.theismaili.org/tags/Pluralism

Women's right - Womens are treated equal. This is common and very well know Ismaili etho - if we have two kids one is son and another is a daughter and if we can on effort to give education to one, we give it to our daughters.

3rd world challenges Aga Khan Foundation seeks sustainable solutions to long-term problems of poverty, hunger, illiteracy and ill-health with special emphasis on the needs of rural communities in mountainous, coastal and other resource-poor areas. They work in 21 different countries and employee 2800 people.

And I can list many many more here..

salim
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#17

Unread post by salim » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:36 pm

Abuzer wrote: bohra dai is just a dai and he is prone to make mistakes while agha khan claims to be IMAM.[/color]
In the things that are not matter of faith, Imam can do mistakes. He is a human being like us. Even prophet Muhammad was prone to do mistakes. Only God is perfect.

JC
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Re: Agha khan's son refuses to take over

#18

Unread post by JC » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:33 pm

To clarify, I have all the respect for Aga Khan and Ismailis, they are far far far better than Bohras and better than many Muslim sects. I may disagree with the principle and concept of Imamat, but I definitely regard Aga Khan is one of the great leaders of our times, he has done tremendous work for not only his community but for the humanity in general.