Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

[Humsafar]

i just feel quite bored that you guys are just so closed to anything that our Dai does, that you just see bad, never the good...

What a pathetic cop-out this: " you guys are just so closed to anything that our Dai does". Don't hide behind generic, blanket statements. If you're honest and rational, you must discuss every issue on its merits.

[Conscíous]

Is there a Like button here somewhere

In a nutshell, Adam is referring to an age-old adage, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Nowhere is he glorifying Modi's contribution to the state nor is he, or any of us for that matter, downplaying his role in the butchery.

To take a point from History, Emperor Akbar married a Hindu woman mainly to strengthen ties between 2 citites

Or how about when a Rajput princess tied a rakhee to a Muslim emperor so that she could be assured he would never attack her...

These, my friends, are called strategies for survival, and that is exactly what our Dai is doing, planning strategies for the survival of our community.

The sad part is that even though the progs will eventually enjoy the protection of being a Dawoodi Bohra, because of the alliances our Syedna has created, you refuse to acknowledge it and label Him a traitor...

Again, understand this, i am not saying that Modi is a messiah and he should be put on a pedestal... no, he is evil incarnate, and he needs to be jailed, but while he is in power, one needs to forge alliances with him, if for nothing else, then for the safety of the community.

As for the Sunni muslims who had unfortunately borne the brunt, my heart goes out to them but if somehow, they manage to forge the right alliances, with the right people, then maybe this can be avoided in the future.

A pact with the devil you say??? Maybe... Yeah, if it means saving hundreds, why not

A boy was walking to buy bread when the mayor of the city crossed the street.

‘The reason he is so powerful, is because, he’s made pact with the devil,’ – a very devout woman in the street told the boy, and he was intrigued.

While traveling to another town, the boy saw a beautiful corn field. He asked who was he owner as soon as he arrived at his destination

‘All this land belongs to the same man. I’d say the Devil had a hand in that.’ – answered one of the villagers.

Later the same day, a beautiful woman walked past the boy. A priest also saw her and said aloud:

‘That woman was sent by Satan!’

From then on, the boy decide to seek the Devil out. One day he managed to see him face to face.

‘They say you can make people powerful, rich, and beautiful.’

‘To be totally honest, this is not true’ replied the Devil. ‘You have just been listening to the views of those who are trying to promote me.’

[ghulam muhammed]

ANHAD AND All India Secular Forum NATIONAL CALL

ORGANISE PROTESTS/ PRESS CONFERENCES ACROSS INDIA AT 3PM ON OCTOBER 3, 2011 IN YOUR CITITES/ TOWNS

- RELEASE SANJEEV BHATT IMMEDIATELY
- SAFEGUARD THE WHISLEBLOWERS
- DISMISS MODI NOW BEFORE HE SUBVERTS JUSTICE FURTHER

SHABNAM HASHMI
RAM PUNIYANI

PLEASE READ STATEMENT BY Teesta Setalvad FOR DETAILS ON SANJEEV'S ARREST

The Vindictive Arrest of Sanjeev Bhatt in Gujarat: Citizens for Justice and Peace release
Sepember 30 2011
PRESS RELEASE

The Citizens for Justice and Peace (CJP) strongly condemns the vindictive action of the Gujarat government in arresting Sanjeev Bhatt, senior IPS office in an action that is nothing short of an attempt to intimidate an important witness in the Zakia Ahsan Jafri and CJP criminal complaint against chief minister Narendra Modi and 61 others. This action of the
Gujarat police under the direct intructions of the state’s Home Minister—Narendra Modi amounts to tampering with evidence and direct intimidation of a key witness. It is also a cheap attempt to slur his character and standing.

Key issues need to be raised here. One that through his affidavit before the Hon’ble Supreme Court dated April 2011 he had testified to criminal and un-Constitutional instructions being issued by Modi at a late night meeting of 27.2.2002 the day of the Godhra incident. In his statements before the SC-appointed Special Investigation Team (SIT) he also gave documentary data about Modi’s abdication of responsibility on 28.2.2002 the day attacks on Gulberg Society and Naroda Patia in Ahmedabad were in full swing. Finally, and last but not the least in an affidavit filed before the High Court recently Shri Bhatt had even mentioned that both Modi and Amit Shah, then MOS Home had tried to intimidate and pressurise him into not giving facts and evidence in the possession of the State Intelligence Bureau releated to the assassination of former MOS Revenue Shri Haren Pandya. The CBI investigation into the Pandya assassination has been recently severely criticised by the Gujarat High Court. Most critically, Bhatt had challenged this FIR for which he was arrested through Writ Petition 135/2011 in the Supreme Court. The SC had issued notice to the Gujarat government on 29.7.2011. This hasty and vindictive, even desperate action of the Gujarat police directly while the matter is under consideration of the Supreme Court raises serious issues of contempt of the highest court, due process and most importantly intimidating a witness critical to a trial to ensure public justice. The alleged offences for which Bhatt was arresred are sections 183,189, 193, 195, 341 of the IPC. With our matter now awaiting being charge sheeting before a Gujarat Magistrate’s Court the arrest of Bhatt is also a clear attempt by the state of Gujarat to warn us all collectively and individually of repercussions if we struggle for justice . It is a pathetic subversion of the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

[Adam]

no, he is evil incarnate, and he needs to be jailed, but while he is in power, one needs to forge alliances with him, if for nothing else, then for the safety of the community.

Br. Mustafa
I wonder if Imam Hussain should have done that and if he had then we would not have Dawat or Dai, would we? Imam Hussain scarified his entire family and you are asking his Dai to forge alliances for the safety of community? Brother please do not justify otherwise your entire belief in Shia faith is down the drain and all your Maatam and Bukah is for nothing.

This comment is directed towards those whom at least share a Shi'a belief. Not for the Wahabis.

@Omabharti
A very good observation about how Imam Husain AS refused to bow down to Yazeed and his Tyranny. Rather, he went to war. (anajmi also got excited about this.)

Since you gave an example of Imam Husain AS, I am inclined to believe you have respect for him? Or have a Shia belief.

If yes, brush up your history.
Indeed Imam Husain AS did sacrifice his blood against Yazeed.
But his brother and Imam, Imam Hasan AS, before him actually made peace with his father Muawiyah!

It goes like this :
1. Imam Ali - declared war on Mu'awiyah, later due to circumstances it ended.
2. Imam Hasan AS siged a suleh peace treaty with Mua'wiyah.
3. Imam Husain battled Yazeed.

A non believer would look at the above and cry out "Double standards". One is fighting and the other is silent or rather making a pact with the devil!

A believer and true shia believes, ALL THREE Imams did the right thing and the right place at the right time.
Their only wish was the betterment of their people and the dawat. In peace or war. And chose the rightful option.

I come back to my original message.
Syedna is going what's best for the community and his Dawat.

[/color]

[SBM]

Adam
Thank you for your explanation but we commemorate Mhurram for Imam Hussain's Shadat and our Aamils talk at length about him standing up to tyrant BUT NEVER TALK ABOUT IMAM HASSAN MAKING PEACE, Now if you justify peace made by Imam Hassan to Muawyah then why it is difficult for you to accept that Maula Ali may have made peace for first 3 khalfias for the betterment of his Umma. Maula Ali did not declare war on the first 3 khalifas and neither did his older son Imam Hasan. The day Kotharis will justify and start telling people about Imam Hasan's strategy in making peace as well Maula Ali' reason to accept the khilfafat of first 3 then I will accept their reason in bowing down to Narendra Modi

[profastian]

Adam
Thank you for your explanation but we commemorate Mhurram for Imam Hussain's Shadat and our Aamils talk at length about him standing up to tyrant BUT NEVER TALK ABOUT IMAM HASSAN MAKING PEACE, Now if you justify peace made by Imam Hassan to Muawyah then why it is difficult for you to accept that Maula Ali may have made peace for first 3 khalfias for the betterment of his Umma. Maula Ali did not declare war on the first 3 khalifas and neither did his older son Imam Hasan. The day Kotharis will justify and start telling people about Imam Hasan's strategy in making peace as well Maula Ali' reason to accept the khilfafat of first 3 then I will accept their reason in bowing down to Narendra Modi

What the heck are you talking about? We all accept that Maula Ali made peace with the three. He did hand the Zahiri khilafat to them. He did help them when it was needed. He never challenged their authority. But this doesn't detract from the fact that the khilafat rightly belong to Ali and the 3 are usurpers.

[Al Zulfiqar]

so abdes - prof, stranger, aqs, a'la maqam, et al...

we now have 3 examples. ali and hassan who compromised with the devils and hussain who refused and sacrificed himself and his family for haq. whereas syedna has made hussain and his shahadat as the central plank of his propaganda and marketing strategy, in reality he follows the passive principles of ali and hussain.

so can you please explain this contradiction? why does he lecture and promote bravery, defiance, sacrifice and fight against tyranny over all else and then himself do the opposite?

[SBM]

Br. Pro
I t amazes me that every thing comes down to ZAHIRI and BATINI, if you can not answer just revert back to Batini Ilm.

[Muslim First]

Modi’s Muslim Fans
http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... uslim-fans

[Ala maqaam]

so abdes - prof, stranger, aqs, a'la maqam, et al...

we now have 3 examples. ali and hassan who compromised with the devils and hussain who refused and sacrificed himself and his family for haq. whereas syedna has made hussain and his shahadat as the central plank of his propaganda and marketing strategy, in reality he follows the passive principles of ali and hussain.

so can you please explain this contradiction? why does he lecture and promote bravery, defiance, sacrifice and fight against tyranny over all else and then himself do the opposite?

Ali hassan and hussain were all on truth,and a beliver has a flexibility to obey these Imam according to situation.

do u think zulfiqaar of Ali was not able to tear apart muawiyah ibn abu sufyaan? but Ali kept it in sheath because that was the best thing to be done at that point of time.

[anajmi]

Modi is over there thinking the exact same thing - do you think I can't kick the Dai and the abdes idiots ass' whenever I want? But if they are bowing down before me without any pressure, and paying me too, why should I kick them when they are already down?

The only difference being, Modi has the power and the Dai has his idiots.

[stranger]

The only difference being, Modi has the power and the Dai has his idiots.

and you have terrorists.

[stranger]

.

[Al Zulfiqar]

a'la' maqam, nalwala and other fanatics,

all you guys have cleverly skirted my real query and trying to deflect and justify the actions of ali, hassan and hussain.

here is the actual question again:

so can you please explain this contradiction? why does the syedna lecture on and promote bravery, defiance, sacrifice and fight against tyranny of hussain over all else and then himself do the opposite?

[Adam]

a'la' maqam, nalwala and other fanatics,

all you guys have cleverly skirted my real query and trying to deflect and justify the actions of ali, hassan and hussain.

here is the actual question again:

so can you please explain this contradiction? why does the syedna lecture on and promote bravery, defiance, sacrifice and fight against tyranny of hussain over all else and then himself do the opposite?

The actions of the three Imams were correct, each in its own circumstance.
There have been a few books written by shias on these topics. Google "Peace treaty of Hasan".

Reasons can be (in our narrow minded thought), but the reasons are much greater than we can ever fathom :
1. Long term vision to protection the Tree of Islam so that it bears the fruits for Dawat.
2. Lack of "physical support" at the time.
3. Mu'awiyah broke the treaty by appointing Yazeed, when according to the treaty, after his death, the Caliphate was to be transferred to the children of Moulatena Fatema AS

Many more reasons.
This is an interesting topic, but why I brought this up is to focus on that both "policies" were used by Imams. So there shouldn't be an issue with Syedna doing the same when he feels it's necessary.

As long as it's for the betterment of Dawat and Iman.

[anajmi]

Adam,

Has the Dai signed any treaty with Modi?

[SBM]

Adam
If Maula Ali and Imam Hasan signed the peace treaties, do you think Imam Hussain (nauzubillah) was wrong in sacrificing his entire family. Why did Imam Hussain who became Imam after Maula Ali and Imam Hassan did not follow the Riwayat of the former two Imams compromising with the leaders of the time
Once again if Imam Hussain would have done what Kothar is doing now with Narendra Modi, we will not be doing these Purjosh Maatam, would we? Would there be a concept of Dawat and Dai?
ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT, DOES SYEDNA IS EVEN AWARE OF DB BOWING AND TOUCHING THE FEET OF NARENDRA MODI, HE HAS BEEN IN THE HOSPITAL AND DOES NOT HAVE GOOD HEALTH, WHO AUTHORIZED ALL THESE DBs TO ATTEND MODI'S UPVAAS? CAN NOT BE SYEDNA?

[ghulam muhammed]

Nation-wide protest on Monday against Sanjeev Bhatt’s arrest

The arrest of Gujarat’s DIG rank police officer Sanjeev Bhatt and the prime witness in Gujarat carnage, has created uproar amongst civil society organizations, civil rights groups and activists. Activists and Civil Rights’ groups have given a nationwide call of protest against Bhatt’s arrest on Monday.

“Sanjiv Bhatt stood up and tried to speak about the role of Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, and now the government is harassing his family and him," said social activist Teesta Setalvad.

On a call given by ANHAD, All India Secular Forum and various other organizations, protests are being organized in the cities of Allahabad, Lucknow, Varanasi, barabanki, Jhansi, Bhopal, Indore, Delhi, Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Bhubaneswar, Pune, Dehradun, Bangalore, Baroda, Jammu, Srinagar, Chennai, Trivendrum, Hisar, Rohtak, Gonda, and Faizabad.

In Delhi, a citizen’s protest will be held at Gujarat Bhawan on Monday, 3:30 pm onwards.

http://twocircles.net/2011oct02/nationw ... im+News%29

[ozmujaheed]

Mansoos should call Modi, remind him the closeness they have that if he still respects Burhanudin , and influence him to become tolerant, protect the minorities and let go, give himself up to investigations

Let him know the fathers dua is with him and if he is innocent he has nothing to worry

[ghulam muhammed]

Everything you need to know about Narendra Modi​

Modi is called “NaMo” by his fans (the word also means “bow down before”). His father was Damodar, however his early opponents invented the middle initial “ka”, calling him NaKaMo (“useless”). That joke isn’t funny any more.

He makes no concession to Muslims.

For four consecutive Lok Sabha and assembly elections he has given not a single ticket to Gujarati Muslims. That is 364 assembly and 52 Lok Sabha tickets handed out. Muslims are 9% of Gujarat’s population, but Modi has made them electorally irrelevant. He reminds them of that by not throwing a token ticket their way.

In his book Sardar Patel​ and Indian Muslims, Rafiq Zakaria​ wrote of how Articles 25 and 26, the right to convert Hindus and to set up Muslims-only institutions, were actually put in place by Vallabhbhai, his gift to Muslims. Gujaratis are horrified to be told this but Vallabhbhai Patel​ was no bigot.

http://www.livemint.com/2011/09/2921282 ... ow-ab.html

[Al Zulfiqar]

adam,

you just dont get it do you? i am asking you one thing and you reply something else! typical of abdes....

let me repeat. if all 3 imams - ali, hassan and hussain were correct, why does the syedna keep harping only only on the shahadat of hussain to the exclusion of the other 2? doing maatam for hussain 24/7 has become the most important ideology of the fanatic abdes, why no maatam for hassan for compromising with muawiyah? shouldnt the maatam be divided between the 2 brothers 50-50%?

what is the sinister game of syedna that he continously highlights the death of hussain, his bravery, his sacrifice, his defiance and adherence to principles and then goes and licks modi's backside and bribes him with huge sums and abdes then justify this spineless behaviour by quoting the compromises made by hassan and ali?

does this whole thing seem even a bit ludicrous and apocryphal to the kothari apologists?

[ghulam muhammed]

Modi has done wrong by arresting Sanjeev Bhatt: Anna Hazare

Anna Hazare on Tuesday said that Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had done “wrong” by arresting IPS officer Sanjeev Bhatt as the matter was with the Supreme Court.

“Bhatt has submitted an affidavit in the Supreme Court. The matter is with the Supreme Court. Then what is the need to arrest him. This is wrong,” Mr. Hazare told a press conference.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 511759.ece

[ghulam muhammed]

Coalition Against Genocide (USA) letter demands action over the arrest of whistle-blower cop Sanjiv Bhatt

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com ... MDIBLKI%3D

[Al Zulfiqar]

why has adam run away after reading my above remarks???

[Conscíous]

He might be busy analyzing the data from his spreadsheet or might be working on a new one

[Adam]

@anajmi
How old are you? Don't seem to have reached puberty, according to you senseless comments on almost every singe thread.

@Al Zulfiqar - Sorry for the delay. I don't check these threads too often.

First of all, truly, I don't know how to answer your question.
Do your respect any Shia belief at all? If yes, then your words are extremely offensive to them.
If No, then I you weren't my audience when I replied to that comment. So don't worry about it.
There's no point referring Shia beliefs to a person who doesn't have any respect for it or its Imams. Your comment " shouldnt the maatam be divided between the 2 brothers 50-50%?" shows this disrespect.

Just to clear a few things, according to OUR beliefs.
All 3 Imams were correct in their own ways, for their time and for the future. The "real" reason/hikmat behind their policies/ways are best known to them. Out mere reasoning is just one or two drops in its ocean. Reason is : Protection of the Dawat.

why does the syedna keep harping only only on the shahadat of hussain to the exclusion of the other 2?

Choose your words wisely and with respect.
The Dawoodi Bohra faith mourns the Shahadat of all the 5 Panjatan, and we do matam for all five, not just Imam Husain AS Yes, it does focus on Imam Husain AS zikr, because his shahadat is considered (according to the DB faith) the greatest. And the shahadat holds a very special meaning in DB faith, that superceeds much more than we can fathom.

In my knowledge, we don't perform matam in connection to not bowing down to yazeed, rather it is for the shahadat of an Imam. So the concept you mentioned about crying about the peace treaty with mu'awiyah, let alone do matam for THAT reason, is not even considered.

then goes and licks modi's backside and bribes him with huge sums

No one is licking any ones.
You may remember it is Modi who came to visit Syedna TUS in Ahmedabad, not the other way. (But that's beside the point).
If material gifts are shared, there's no harm in it. It's how PR is done. Read my first comment in this thread.

The Mumin bhais who visited Modi, need not have gone with direct orders of Syedna TUS, but rather would have got a consent from their local Amil. Meeting him is not an issue. Plus, it's a move towards the betterment of the community. A community, it's obvious that you aren't a part of.

Again, the comments about the 3 Imams were only meant for people who understand Shia belief. All your comments seem that you have no idea at all, rather, in your mind, it seems like a game.

Just Google the Hikmah of Suleh of Imam Hasan AS you'll find some reasons.
http://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&ix=c ... 8%B3%D9%86

[anajmi]

Adam,

Let me repeat my question which you chose not to answer. Has the Dai signed any treaty with Modi?

[SBM]

Adam
it's a move towards the betterment of the community.

So Adam
Should Qutbuddin Shaheed should have made deal with Aurangzeb for betterment of community instead of giving his life and defending the Dawat.
Lest we forget about Imam Hussain's principles to sacrifice his entire family for the betterment of ISLAM, "Islam zinda hoota hey her karbala ke baad"
What comes first, your principles to defend the honor or bowing down to a known killer of Muslims including Bohras
(Please do not hide behind Hikma and Batin Bayans again)

[ghulam muhammed]

we do matam for all five, not just Imam Husain AS

I have never heard the chants of 'Ya Hasan' in bohra masjids, prove me wrong by citing a few examples contrary to my claim.

You may remember it is Modi who came to visit Syedna TUS in Ahmedabad, not the other way.

Did Modi VISIT the dai voluntarily or was he INVITED ? Please dont fall into the usual kothari crap that Modi, like other dignitories elsewhere came on their own accord. The 'Inviting' part is done by the PRO machinery in saifee mahal.

The Mumin bhais who visited Modi, need not have gone with direct orders of Syedna TUS, but rather would have got a consent from their local Amil.

And where does the amil get his consent from ? Do you believe that the amil can act on his own free will especially in such sensitive matters ?

[ghulam muhammed]

Reason is : Protection of the Dawat.

O.K. So protection of 'Dawat' is more important then protection of 'Ummah', I think Prophet (s.a.w.) and Panjatan Pak (a.s.) also followed this same concept, didnt they ????