My Predicament

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Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: My Predicament

#61

Unread post by Conscíous » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:04 pm

JC,
I like your last argument .. you have a good point :wink:

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#62

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:51 pm

As to our 'urges' and putting them before God - what would you say when straight people want to make love and have sex with partners of opposite sex, are they putting their 'urges' before God??
No, because if they are married, then their urge is not making them do anything haraam.
You have the urge to eat chicken, I have an urge to eat Dal-Chawal ........... both are equally good or both are equally bad.
Wrong comparison. You should be comparing an urge to eat halal chicken versus an urge to eat haraam pork. One is allowed and the other one is not.
No scholar can claim we have successfully interpreted Quran 100%.
Correct. There are some ayahs of the Quran which are clear. For eg. Homosexuality is not allowed is amongst the clear messages of the Quran. These clear ayahs are not going to change. Even if we have understood just 10% of the ayahs of the Quran, the ayahs about homosexuality are in those 10% of the understood ayahs.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: My Predicament

#63

Unread post by profastian » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:58 pm

anajmi wrote: Correct. There are some ayahs of the Quran which are clear. For eg. Homosexuality is not allowed is amongst the clear messages of the Quran. These clear ayahs are not going to change. Even if we have understood just 10% of the ayahs of the Quran, the ayahs about homosexuality are in those 10% of the understood ayahs.
Is there any ayah or Hadith which says homosexuality is shirk?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
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Re: My Predicament

#64

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:29 am

An abde doesn't have to worry about homosexuality being shirk. An abde is a living example of shirk.

Anyone who prefers to obey his nafs against the commandments of Allah is a worshipper of his nafs. I am hoping your sabaks are not a complete waste of time and that you must've at least learnt that much!!

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#65

Unread post by JC » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:26 pm

Bro Anajmi,

I had already said do not compare my eating example with eating Halal and Haram ........ you did exactly the same. I am trying to give the example to preferences in eating 'halal' only. You prefer chicken, I prefer dal chawal, both perfectly halal (I donot want to bring in another concept of eating halal vs what is 'percieved' as haram in this thread).

Exactly true for 'married' couple, OK if you want to go thru that route, 'allow' the same-sex marriages .... but I know you will say 'marriage is between man and woman' and cannot be between two poeple of same sex. You see you all are not budging in because of your perception that homosexuality is haram. You cannot appreciate that it is something natural and one does not have any choice - you keep on saying 'control your urges', 'control your Nafs' and alike, but my question is WHY?? Do straight people are advised of similar things?? No, so why us.

Please understand, God has created two set of people, perfectly normal and natural, one wants to make love and have sex with people of opposite sex, other with same sex. There is no third set of people, if there is, they may be wrong if it allows love/sex between minor or non-consenting partners.

Lastly why you believe the Ayahs related to Lut and his nation are from may 10% of Ayahs we totally understand?? Why it cannot be of balance 90%?? You could argue that we have been able to successfully interprete 99% of Quran TODAY, but, but say 200 yeras from now people of that time may correct or revise the interpretation .... once we believed earth was flat, today we believe it s round, who knows what our research will tell us say 500 years from now??!! Nothing is constant, everything is relative.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#66

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:03 pm

I had already said do not compare my eating example with eating Halal and Haram
That is like saying do not say haraam to haraam. What is haraam is haraam and comparing it with halaal doesn't make it halaal.
You see you all are not budging in because of your perception that homosexuality is haram.
The Quran doesn't give me the option to budge. It is pretty clear.
Do straight people are advised of similar things?? No, so why us.
Yes, outside of marriage even straight sex is haraam. You didn't marry a guy before you had sex with him did you? Show me one homosexual who waited till he married a guy before having homosexual sex. You cannot because that is not how homosexuality works. It is a sin from every angle.
Why it cannot be of balance 90%??
Because those ayahs are clear.
but say 200 yeras from now people of that time may correct or revise the interpretation
You probably won't be there to take advantage of the revised interpretation. Homosexuals of that time may enjoy but the interpretation of today says that homosexuality is haraam.
once we believed earth was flat
Unfortunately for you, the Quran is not from humans. God knows the past, present and future.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#67

Unread post by JC » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:49 pm

Anajmi,

You are always talking of 'sex' when you talk of homosexuality, your perception is incorrect. A) Homosexuality is not only sex between two partners of same sex, it is a mind set, it is orientation of a human being, it is 'how' a person is born with some traits ..........

I will not be alive 200 years down the road, agreed, but I KNOW I am RIGHT, homosexuality is neither a sin nor a disease and that is my Faith.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: My Predicament

#68

Unread post by Conscíous » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:53 pm

Yo depressed,
Hope you are feeling better :D ... How about an update on your situation :roll: ??

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: My Predicament

#69

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:46 pm

JC wrote:Homosexuality is not only sex between two partners of same sex, it is a mind set, it is orientation of a human being, it is 'how' a person is born with some traits
'Kleptomaniac' too is a mind set but if the person suffering from this problem is caught stealing then he is jailed and not set free. The person cant use the excuse that he is born with this trait to absolve himself from the crime commited due to that trait.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#70

Unread post by JC » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:22 pm

Bro GM,

I said if anything (may it be a trait or state of mind) hurts any individual or property or infringes on other's right it should be considered for stopping. If some one steals, that means that person has entered into someone else's domain without permission, and hence not acceptable. If someone decides to give some stuff to an individual willingly, should we than worry?

This is something natural between two willing, consenting adults with no harm cause to any other individual or property.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
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Re: My Predicament

#71

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:55 pm

JC wrote:This is something natural between two willing, consenting adults with no harm cause to any other individual or property.
Bro. JC,

What are your views on 'zina' ? i.e. sex out of marriage but by mutual consent because even here it causes no harm to any individual or property.

What about prostitution ? The prostitute sells her own body and not someone elses hence harm if any is caused to her alone and not to other individuals. Her customer may be harming his relationship with his family but then if she takes the moral ground and refuses to entertain him then he may go to some other prostitute.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#72

Unread post by JC » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:34 am

Bro Ghulam Mohammad,

Regarding 'zina', to me this concept has been blown out of proportion. You may disagree with me, but I believe if should be ok between two consenting auduts when no harm is caused to any person or property. They should however be willing to accept the consequences of such acts (IF they indulge in intercourse) that is if the lady gets pragnent. I do not see anything wrong with the conept of 'Dating' as prevelant in West today. Therefore love (and sex) between two consenting people of same sex should not be of any issue or of concern to others.

As for prostitution, well this is there since ages. If one wants to do this for any reason, I do not see why we should object. People use their bodies to earn their livelihood in various ways - Acting Industry, Modelling Industry ... they use their bodies ....... when people do labour work, they use their bodies, correct? Now when you say they 'bring harm' to their bodies in prostitution is a bit stretch. What about a person doing hard labour on the road in extreme hot weather?? (Like construction workers in Middle East), what about working Masees at our homes in India/Pakistan? Do not they bring 'harm' to their bodies?? In fact, every working individual brings some kind of harm to his/her body and mind .......... oh, my eye sight has gone weak as I work on computer all day long..!!! So think about it.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: My Predicament

#73

Unread post by Conscíous » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:57 am

Bro Mustafa,
Feeling better in the sense that he could give us an update.. Tell me honestly, if you were in his shoe, who's advise would you have followed and why??

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#74

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:29 pm

acceptance of extreme examples of mind-state or addiction causing certain otherwise unacceptable actions and therefore legally absolving the protagonists is resulting in some strange and weird judgements in western law courts.

recently a superior court in canada let go a 72 year old catholic bishop (no less!) with a suspended jail sentence and probation. this pervert bishop was caught at the US border with tons of child porn and images on his laptop. this same bishop had in fact presided over a huge enquiry into a child abuse scandal involving hundreds of young kids at the hands of dozens of priests in nova scotia. now it turns out this same bishop is a confirmed pedophile!

he was in custody for 8 months while his case was tried. although he got a prison sentence of 18 months, the judge gave him credit of 1 = 2 for time served and took 2 months off for the bishop's genuine repentance and admittance that he couldn't help himself as he was 'addicted'.

this is like a cowboy outlaw of old who could have claimed that he went on a murderous spree, shooting up border towns, looting, raping, and burning down bars and saloons and creating general mayhem, because his step mother took away his daily soother when he was only a few months old!!!

this whole reverse psychology business of trying to justify the most outlandish behaviour by cleverly linking it with events from one's past, from one's childhood and even before in the womb, has gone to insane levels and is negating common-sense!

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: My Predicament

#75

Unread post by Conscíous » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:40 pm

HEy Mustafa...,
I know that so just chill out bro.. We are cool :wink: I didn't have any other intension other then who's advise would you consider..

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: My Predicament

#76

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:29 pm

The issue of homosexuality is discussed here on the basis of its impact on the doer and its ramifications on his near and dear ones. There may be a lot of philosophical quotes to defend the act but at the end it just doesnt seem alright. This is a forum wherein the main focus is the religious view as per Islamic jurisprudence and no amount of soft talk can ever justify the act from an Islamic point of view.

It is like justifying the consumption of alcohol based on various research which shows that it has health benefits if consumed within prescribed limits. No amount of human research can negate Allah's command which strictly prohiibits the same.

It is also like justifying the many dacoities by Robinhood just because he was supposed to have robbed the rich to serve the poor. A theft in any form is a crime as per Quran because Allah says so, so does commonsense.

Hence it is a futile attempt to defend homosexuality in the light of Quran and Allah's commands......................Period. No amount of self consolation is going to absolve the homosexual in the eyes of Allah (swt).

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: My Predicament

#77

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:15 pm

Bro.mustafanalwala,

Sorry if I have touched the wrong nerve (Dukhti rag pe haath rakh diya) but then 'truth is bitter'.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: My Predicament

#78

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:46 pm

Gay ‘Marriages’: So what’s next?

Demanding the rights of gays to marry in Church is as ‘logical’ as the atheists demanding the right to be baptised as atheists! It is bizarre that the pro-gay liberal brigade wants the Christian Church to endorse homosexuality, when it is clearly condemned by God in the first place. Like theft, adultery, murder and rape, homosexuality is also a sin according to all the Abrahamic faiths (Islam, Christianity and Judaism) and the bulk of other faiths and non-faiths also have a similar position. Surely, the logical place to start would have been to demand that the Church adopt a secular book of prayers and abandon the Bible. Then whatever the current fad is the Church can endorse.


The pro-gay camp has always argued to keep religion out, as they argued on the basis of secular values of personal freedom; thus, it is for free individuals to decide what activities take place inside their bedrooms. The argument more or less goes along the lines, if two consenting adults are in love, it is their ‘right’ to form a relationship, so keep God out of it, this is the 21st century. Yet, now they want bring to God and religion into it. For decades, religion was the enemy and they derided the values of this institution, so why are they seeking its approval now? This shows the contradictory nature of secularism.


Of course, they cannot obtain that endorsement from devout Christians; hence they are using the legal instrument to coerce the Church to comply. The secular institution is the new Pope or Archbishop, dictating what values the Church should endorse. Unfortunately, some Christians have already submitted to the liberal bullies; they have literally bent over exposing their rear ends, preaching the alleged biblical justification for the joys of homosexuality. This is one step away from endorsing the slur that Prophet Jesus did not marry, because he was not attracted to females, implying the obvious.


To appear politically correct, many have gone along with the baseless argument that homosexuality is natural and should be given the same recognition as heterosexual relationships. If it is natural, then it should exist in nature, but nature dictates that only heterosexual relationships can lead to the existence of homosexuals in the first place. Leaving aside artificial methods of science, going back to real nature, for the bulk of human history, what contribution has homosexual relationships made to procreation? Therefore, nature has long demonstrated that homosexuals cannot sustain themselves without heterosexual activity. Since homosexual activity works against the forces of nature (pro-creation), in that case, how can they be given the same rights and recognition as the fertile heterosexuals?


If the legalisation of gay marriages in the UK constitutes progress, surely there is more to come, unless we have reached the apex of progression. Accordingly, it is reasonable to ask what else could be legalised under this current trend of progression. The answer obviously lies in what is prohibited by law at present. This may give hope to those engaged in incest, paedophilia and other exotic fetishes that I do not remotely understand.


The underlying argument presented by the gay faction is: two consenting adults have the right to form a legal relationship if they are in love, but then where does one draw the line. What if two consenting adults are related by blood? And incest is already legalised in countries like Holland. Do we want to then legalise and bring this into the school curriculum and teach our children that such relationships are acceptable? Do you think it’s healthy and acceptable to tell your sons and daughters that they can engage sexually with close members of the family? Or have we not progressed to that stage yet!


Yamin Zakaria (yamin@radicalviews.org)

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: My Predicament

#79

Unread post by Human » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:44 pm

Dear depressed,
Like some of the forum members suggested, you are NOT committing any sin. It is something that comes naturally. You do not have to be depressed or feel guilty for this.
And do not listen to certain extreme right wing bigots of this forum. You need kind words of assurance, not criticism.
Take care and hope you are well. I really feel sad and sorry about your situation but I can't comment much as being a man of science I wouldn't care much about faith.

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: My Predicament

#80

Unread post by Human » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:58 pm

anajmi wrote:
HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT SIN..!!
As per Islam it is a sin and this is amongst the clearest of messages of the Quran. If you are a homosexual, I believe that you should feel depressed and guilty like depressed feels and because he feels that way I have hope that he will be cured of his disease inshaallah. There is a famous tradition where a sinner asks Allah for forgiveness and Allah says I forgive him because my slave recognizes me for my forgiveness. If you expect Allah to cure you, you will be cured. If you do not think it is a sin, then you do not seek forgiveness or cure and you will get neither.

depressed,

I would suggest that you go for therapy as suggested earlier.
What an idiot. You just see everything with your islamic topi on and it is easy for you to make such remarks because you were born straight. If you were born a gay, you would know how it feels and how much of an uphill battle it is with the society especially a religious one. If I was a gay it wouldn't have bothered me at all as I'm not religious and don't care much but I feel sorry for the likes of depressed who is in a bad mental state and you're making it worse. While I admire the courage of JC to come out and fight for what he believes in. You have no right to make such remarks unless you were actually in their shoes.
How dare you call it a 'disease'. The only disease present is in your brain; mental retardation. Being gay is neither a sin nor a disease. It has been made out to be over the years by religious authorities. If someone was born a gay, it is their basic human right and is not a sin. I staunchly oppose the treatment gay people get in Islamic countries (another reason not to live in one).

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: My Predicament

#81

Unread post by Human » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:04 am

anajmi wrote:That it is a disease is simply my opinion based upon my extensive scientific research and analysis. Quran says it is a sin and that should be sufficient. I consider all kinds of sin that become a compulsion in a human, a disease. Unable to control homosexual urge is similar to being unable to control promiscuous urges which is also considered a mental disease. A person who switches his lights on and off multiple times to make sure that they are working is said to be suffering from a disease too. Watching too much porn is also considered a disease.
Your scientific research? My backside (wanted to use a stronger word here but didn't for decency sake)...You have no clue what science is or what scientific research is. By the way, reading quran does not comprise of scientific research. Let me repeat my self in bold caps READING QURAN IS NOT SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH...If you are to consider all kinds of compulsions as diseases then I'm sure you'd admit from suffering the 'arguement syndrome' and the 'I am superior syndrome' and the 'I am always right syndrome', etc.

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: My Predicament

#82

Unread post by Human » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:07 am

anajmi wrote:
Can you please show me were in the Quran it written that homosexuality is a disease??
No.
Ohh really, then why did you say this
Cause I assumed that the people who are reading had some sense. Apparently, I was wrong.
Does Allah (swt) cure sin or forgive them??
A person with average or above average IQ wouldn't need to ask this question. A person with less than average IQ wouldn't understand the answer, so I won't waste my time.
Boom,
Do not expect this guy to answer you in a straight way. He doesn't know a thing about scientific research and he will not answer your questions properly. Only ridicule you and try to divert from the point. And believe me he's very good at that. I will openly challenge him to an IQ test if he wants to test out. I'm sure he won't agree as the only test he can win is reciting quran (that too he might lose against the likes of porus)...good for nothing!

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: My Predicament

#83

Unread post by Human » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:12 am

anajmi wrote:
And you guys ceased to be dawoodi bohras the day you uttered curses to the Syedna....
And I am glad about that. Becoming a muslim is more important to me than remaining an abde slave idol worshipper.
Yes, now you are an ex-idol worshiper and a current book worshiper.
By the way if you want to worship books, I recommend the 'Vedas'. Excellent science fiction, much better than the your book and quite intelligent too as they explain things and don't just ask you to do something because 'God' has said so and you're god's slaves. Fact is Vedas are a lot older too and still better overall.

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: My Predicament

#84

Unread post by Human » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:16 am

anajmi wrote: I am not comparing a homosexual to a murderer, rapist or a thief. I would rather invite a homosexual to my house than the other three cause I am one of the ugliest men you will see. :wink:
Good on you for admitting it. I always imagined you to be an ugly looking person with a jungle beard in which dandruff and lice roam freely :twisted:

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: My Predicament

#85

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:06 pm

Mauritian Imam Solemnizes Muslim Gay Marriage

While launching his book in Paris, Ludovic Mohamed Zahed took the opportunity to talk to France 24 about his marriage to another Muslim man. Ludovic recalled his trials and tribulations, including the problems he faced with his family and the Arab community.

It’s a love story like no other, daring to 'marry' many taboos in one bag: homosexuality, AIDS, Islam. This male love affair was born in South Africa, and blossomed in the suburbs of Paris. Two Muslim men married according to Islamic Sharia, in the presence of a Mauritian Imam called Jamal who blessed their matrimony. This is the scandalizing tale of Ludovic Mohamed Zahed and his partner, now husband, Qiyam Al Din that has provoked the international Muslim world. The former, a Frenchman with Algerian origins, the latter a South African Muslim man. The two met in 2011, while their Muslim brothers were raising hell against their Arab oppressive regimes, in South Africa during a convention about AIDS. Since then, they have been inseparable.

Ludovic looks back fondly at the moment he first met his lover Qiyam Al Din, “I was in the lecture hall when an Imam who incidentally is a homosexual himself, introduced me to Qiyam Al Din. We discovered we had a lot in common and a mutual admiration was cemented. I stayed on after the convention for two months, deciding to get married, since South African laws were more same sex couple-friendly. South Africa allows same sex marriage, and allows same sex couples to adopt."

After the wedding that was organized by Qiyam’s family, the couple decided to return to France and settle down in a Parisian suburb, hoping that the French government would recognize the legality of the marriage. France, not always the friendliest of states to Islam, did not cooperate. The authorities refused to register their marriage, leaving Ludovic for now counting on a win for his chosen social party’s presidential candidate on May 6th, to rectify the situation. Ludovic did, nontheless, receive the blessings of his family, who reside in Marseille and attended on the day. He admitted that he faces more obstacles with French law than Muslim approbrium.

Pending legal settlement, Ludovic decided to make his wedding a family affair, with his trusted Mauritian Imam in tow. He read the Fatiha and blessed the marriage. The ceremony, held on the 12th of February 2012, in a modest house in Servon on the ouskirts of Paris, was attended by Ludovic’s parents and select close friends.

I still receive threats through calls or the internet

The beauty of his wedding could not block out the torrents of hate mail and animosity from the conservative Muslim community. According to Ludovic, the wedding was intimate and beautiful, with music, dancing and singing. “ Being married in front of my family, was like a new start of life for me, I could have never imagined such a day would come, seeing the joy in my parents’ eyes after they had battled with my sexuality and tried with all their might to change the course of my sexual inclinations so as to be like other men.”

Ludovic elaborated in this exclusive expose: “Unfortunately I cannot change myself. I have felt that I was a homosexual since I was young. I liked, even loved, the Imam who taught me the Quran in Algeria back in 1995, despite all the threats from my family and the social pressure from Arab society whether in France or in Algeria, I have not changed”.

Even HIV couldn't tear them apart

Ludovic’s own biograhpy has not been devoid of tragic circumstances. He has not had an easy ride, but faced a journey ridden with challenges. He contracted AIDS at the tender age of 19. What made matters worse was his strained relationship with his family because of his sexual orientation. Ludovic says, “My family was very harsh with me at the beginning, I was beaten by my older brother, who could not tolerate that I was gay, he disowned me and refused to talk to me for several years. As for my mother, she would cry every day from despair and shame.”

Rather than despairing, found his salvation in faith: “I turned to worship and prayer to resist the situation, I became religious, and I performed Omarah then Hajj twice, seeking a simpler, normal life. Despite the threats that I get by phone or from the internet, as well as, my struggle with the negative views that I get from Arabs and Muslims alike, today I feel more comfortable in my own skin."

As for his future, Ludovic says that the absolute priority is to get a legal permit for his new spouse, Qiyam Al Din, to stay and work in France. Ludovic himself wants to pursue his doctoral studies in Islam and Homosexuality. He is already a published author of two books, the first one is about AIDS, and the second is about the Holy Quran and sex. He runs an organization that tackles with issues relating to Islam and homosexuality.

Against all odds: together

The newly-wed couple does not intend to travel to any Arab or Muslim country in fear of being tortured or mistreated. “We want to stay in France, because my husband Qiyam Al Din likes this country a lot. However, if it becomes impossible for him to stay, we will return to South Africa to live”.

http://m.albawaba.com/en/node/419446

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#86

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:50 pm

Two Muslim men married according to Islamic Sharia
There is no provision in Islamic sharia to marry two men to each other. So I am not sure how they could've been married according to Islamic Sharia. That is like saying I am going to commit zina according to Islamic Sharia or loot people according to Islamic Sharia (like the Dai does to his abde idiots)!!

Liberalguy
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:10 am

Re: My Predicament

#87

Unread post by Liberalguy » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:09 am

I amnot sure if someone mentioned it earlier, but if someone has heard of Irshad Manji, a gay muslim reformist. She is active, popular and damn energetic. She was kicked out of madrasa for asking too much question. Now she is helping muslim women all over world and had built schools in somalia for muslim.
dear Depressed, pls seek a therapist, who can help you regain your self esteem and make sure that being gay is natural biologically and psychologically healthy. What I am worried about is how you are going to break news to your wife.
I think you can start educating her about it though unconsciously putting in her mind that there are gays and its natural to be one and know her opinion about it in indirect manner and gradually break the news. you have to go long way.
NOTE: before finding counselor, make sure about his/her stance on it. Go to a counselor who accepts gay as per scientific perspective and help you accept yourself rather than treating it as disease.
Don't listen to morons in this forum who know nothing about homosexuality, though there are people who are understanding and can help you.

research more about homosexuality and read about people who faces difficulties in society and had come out. READ ABOUUT GAY PRIDE AND LGBTQ. Its a scientific topic and religion has nothing much to say about it. Join forums who help homosexuals and gain more knowledge.

REMEMBER THAT ITS PERFECTLY NORMAL AND TODAY SCIENTIFICALLY ACCEPTED. Read about GAY PRIDE and seek help.
best of luck.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: My Predicament

#88

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:42 am

To all the men on this forum who talk about homosexuality being natural and there being nothing wrong with it, would any of you be willing to sleep with a homosexual man? Let him put it in you and vice versa?

Liberalguy
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:10 am

Re: My Predicament

#89

Unread post by Liberalguy » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:38 pm

dear anajmi, it looks like though you have disillusioned yourself from DB cult, you still have your prejudices and biases. Its what we call 'ool ma si chool ma'.
what do you mean by sleeping with gay man, ie just sleeping, like one would sleep with one's brother or friend in one room or you mean copulating? Of course a straight would not copulate with same sex, so in that manner I would not sleep with him.
If you mean to say that just sleeping, like we sleep with friends or family member in one room, then I would like to clarify it this way....
As homosexuals are attracted to same sex, the dynamics of sexual attraction would be reversed compared to straight person. So I think it could be safe for a women to sleep with gay man rather than men given that that women too is homosexual.
so one can ask, would a straight men would sleep with opposite sex in one room? The answer depends on many variables, ie do they belong to one family, ie a brother sister do sleep in one room at certain age maynot sidebyside but in one room specially those people who don't even have another room in their house. Another sotuation could be a guest coming to your home and she/he may sleep in one room along with other members.
so the point is BEING HOMOSEXUAL DOESN'T MEAN BEING CHARACTERLESS OR SEX PERVERT. HOMOSEXUALS TOO ARE SENSIBLE, CIVILIZED HUMAN BEING WHO FOLLOW SOCIAL NORMS AND PERSONAL ETHIC AND WOULD NOT JUST JUMP TO HAVE SEX WITH ANY SAME SEX PERSON, just like straight person.
so to answer your question, I may not sleep close to a homosexual just like straight don't sleep close to opposite sex.
Its just like asking a homosexual to ask whether he/ she would sleep with opposite sex, in which case he/she (homos) would not have any problem, but straight would be attracted to her/him.

We have this question and feel weird about it because homosexuals are not yet accepted within mainstream society.

So I would ask a homosexual whether he/she would sleep with opposite sex?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: My Predicament

#90

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon May 21, 2012 6:32 pm

Iran's gay community subjected to horrifying treatment: study

Tehran : The lifestyle of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people has exposed them to brutal punishments in Iran, according to a study.

The first ever report on Iran's LGBT community has revealed that these people lived under social and state repression, with some forced to exile or even sentenced to death.

According to The Guardian, the study conducted by Small Media, a non-profit group based in London revealed that punishment for mosahegheh (lesbianism) was 100 lashes, but it could lead to death penalty if the act is repeated four times.

The study also said that though transsexuality was legalised in Iran in 1987, "the social stigma attached to trans-sexualism was unwavering and transphobic abuse was prevalent".

Homosexuality is punishable by death, according to fatwas issued by almost all Iranian clerics.

LGBT Iranians were also victims of the confusion prevailing within the society with regard to differences between being a homosexual and a transsexual.

The report said: "LGBT issues are particularly taboo and are seldom discussed in Iran's public sphere. Even if Iran decriminalised homosexuality, it could take decades for it to become socially acceptable in the Islamic Republic of Iran."

Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell said: "[The Iranian LGBT community] show that, despite state repression and the frequent compromises they are forced to make to protect themselves, many Iranian LGBTs manage to get on with their lives and to forge a sense of community and solidarity."

http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/951042/