India 2014-2019

This forum covers a whole range of issues: from international politics and economy to human rights, from corporate domination and greed to environmental crises...
abde53
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:01 am

Re: India 2014-2019

#31

Unread post by abde53 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:41 am

Biradar Bhai
Why are you blaming Moula Muffadal, everyone makes deal with leaders to save their community. Did not Nabi Mohammed made deal with Quresh? Moula Ali did not fight with Abu Baker and Umer to make sure his followers are saved? Imam Hassan did not oppose for took up fight with Yazid because he did not want to see his followers get hurt.
Why only blame Muffadal Moula, why not other Jhotta Dai, has he said something against Modi or BJP. Our Moula is doing whatever he can to make sure that we the Adna Ghulams are safe and prosper under his leadership.
We make Dua with Allaha and Paak Punjatan that he give our Moula Muffadal long life so we can prosper under his saya.. Aaameen



Udaipuri
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 5:01 am

Re: India 2014-2019

#32

Unread post by Udaipuri » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:49 am

abde53 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:41 am
Biradar Bhai
Why are you blaming Moula Muffadal, everyone makes deal with leaders to save their community. Did not Nabi Mohammed made deal with Quresh? Moula Ali did not fight with Abu Baker and Umer to make sure his followers are saved? Imam Hassan did not oppose for took up fight with Yazid because he did not want to see his followers get hurt.
Why only blame Muffadal Moula, why not other Jhotta Dai, has he said something against Modi or BJP. Our Moula is doing whatever he can to make sure that we the Adna Ghulams are safe and prosper under his leadership.
We make Dua with Allaha and Paak Punjatan that he give our Moula Muffadal long life so we can prosper under his saya.. Aaameen
Spoken like a true Abde. Modi has his bhakts, and Muffy has his idiot abdes. Muffy is not making deals to protect his adna idiots, he is doing to protect his vast financial empire. If he actually cared about you he would be a different Dai. But you will never know. And that is a pity.



SBM
Posts: 6210
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: India 2014-2019

#33

Unread post by SBM » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:52 pm

Abde53 did make some valid arguments in his own twisted logic but why is it wrong for SMS to make deal to save his own empire while throwing some crumbs to his blind followers. Abde53 did bring up a great point why it was ok from Imam Hassan not to fight Yazid and stay put in Madinah as well as Imam Ali who did not resist the caliphates of the first 3 Khalifas. Many scholars do point out that Imam Ali did take bayet of all 3 Caliphs on delayed basis while Imam Hassan NEVER took bayat but agreed not to oppose Yazid. So if our Imams made deals with devils then what is wrong for SMS to do the same . YES I do get the point that SMS is doing to save his own empire while our Imams did to save their followers.



Biradar
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: India 2014-2019

#34

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:59 pm

SBM wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:52 pm
Abde53 did make some valid arguments in his own twisted logic but why is it wrong for SMS to make deal to save his own empire while throwing some crumbs to his blind followers. Abde53 did bring up a great point why it was ok from Imam Hassan not to fight Yazid and stay put in Madinah as well as Imam Ali who did not resist the caliphates of the first 3 Khalifas. Many scholars do point out that Imam Ali did take bayet of all 3 Caliphs on delayed basis while Imam Hassan NEVER took bayat but agreed not to oppose Yazid. So if our Imams made deals with devils then what is wrong for SMS to do the same . YES I do get the point that SMS is doing to save his own empire while our Imams did to save their followers.
(Just to correct you. Imam Hassan made peace with Muawiah. You say "... Imam Hassan not to fight Yazid". Why should he have? The menace of Yazid did not arise during the time of Hassan but during the time of Imam Hussain.)

At this time of history, there is no real existential threat we (i.e. Bohris) are facing. To compare now to the time in which Islam was young and still in its formative stage is absurd.

The fact is that right after the death of the Prophet the nascent Islamic community faced the real possibility that it would split and fracture, with the legacy of the Prophet in question. Remember, even the text of the Qur'an as we know it was not yet assembled. Hence, if Ali had opposed the election of Abu Bakr, it would likely have led to bloodshed and mayhem. Further, the situation did not improve for a long while.

Even the time of Uthman was of confusion. Ali taking any major action would have caused a lot more turmoil. In fact, that is what happened in any case. The civil wars that ensued were essentially as Muawiah blamed Ali for the murder of Uthman. This led to the schism in the community which is yet to heal 1400 years later.

You only need to read Nahj al-Balagha Sermon 3 "By Allah, the son of Abu Quhafah ..." to understand what Ali himself thought of the Abu Bakar and the others. You will also learn why Ali choose quietism, enduring hardships and insubordination. Imam Hassan's situation was the same. He agreed to a truce with Muawiah. However, Imam Hussain could not make a truce with laeen Yazid who Muawiah appointed illegally, contrary to the agreements with Imam Hassan.

There is another very major difference between Muffy's love for Modi and the older historical things you bring up. First, the fights between the various people early were between different factions of Muslims. Modi is not a muslim. Abu Bakar, whatever he did was a Muslim and in any case a close companion of the Prophet, with him since the start. How can any sane person compare these two situations!?

It is clear Muffy's love for Modi is motivated to maintain his own power and protect his billion dollar empire. Further, he wants to influence the court cases, including the FGM and da'i cases. To compare this with the noble reasons that Ali and Imam Hassan did what they did is ridiculous. Modi is a murderer of Muslims. Abu Bakr did not murder 3000 Muslims in a progrom to wipe them out. These are not analogous times.

Again, I want to emphasis that Muffy is interested in protecting his business and nothing else. This is obvious to anyone in possession of even half a brain. Of course, Abdes will not agree as they don't even have half a brain. I mean the logic of supporting Modi to protect Bohras would make sense if Muffy waited for the 10 days of Muharram to be over. Did he really have to do it in the middle of Ashara?

Amusingly, most Abdes will curse Modi if you ask them. But they won't connect the logic of asking why Muffy supports him, gives him hugs etc. I do not recall reading if Imam Hassan invited Muawiah to his house, gave him shawls and hugged him, allowed him to give speeches to his followers. Sad that anyone can think the behavior of Muffy is any way justified.