An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

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S. Insaf
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#1

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:20 am

An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

From:- Date: 1st June 2015
SAIFUDDIN INSAF
Editor, Bohra Chronicle,
1202 Zeneeth Tower, LBS Marg, Mulund (W), Mumbai - 400080 Cell: 9819884226

To,
JANAB AMIL SAHIB of ZAINEE MASJID,
Masjid Gali, 282 Shaikh Memon Street, Mumbai – 400002

Janab,

Re: ORDINARY ORIGINAL CIVIL JURISDICTION NOTICE OF MOTION (L) NO. 746 OF 2014 IN SUIT (L) NO. 291 OF 2014
Khuzemabhai Syedna Taher Saifuddin Sahab...Plaintiff Versus Mufaddal Burhanuddin Saifuddin...Defendant.

Janab! you have now appointed as Amil of Zainee Masjid by one of the two contenders of 53rd. Dai, namely Mufaddal Saifuddin (disputed), on a substantial salary plus perks and free residential accommodation by Anjuman-e-Shiat-e-Ali. All these expenses spent on you as Amil are met from the huge cash collections in the name of Establishment and Household Sabeel, being collected as minimum subscription from the mumineen of Zainee Mohalla.

As per my knowledge the Zainee Masjid is being maintained by its Founder Charitable Trust duly registered in Hong Kong out of the income of Mohammadi Hall and nearby shop.
Therefore the collection of Sabeel in the name of Masjid maintenance is unlawful.


The relations of Anjuman-e-Shiat-e-Ali with the trustees of the trust are strained on account of a recent refusal of burial of one of the members of the trust in Naryalwadi graveyard. However the burial was done under protection of J.J. Marg Police.

You are now sponsoring one of the two contenders, Janab Mufaddal Sa[/color]ifuddin by praying for his welfare and long life after Magrib salah. Praying for any one else except Allah is an act of Shirk.

You have given Misaq to disputed Janab Mufaddal Saifuddin, and you will take Misaq of Mumineen for Janab Mufaddal and in the forthcoming month of Ramzan-ul-Muazzam you will compel the mumineen to give Wajebat and Sabeel amount for disputed Janab Mufaddal Saifuddin.

You are well aware that both the contenders to the 53rd Dai-ul-Mutlaq’s office have given an absolute undertaking to the Hon. Bombay High Court that they will not claim the absolute right to the office of Dai-ul-Mutlaq during the period of litigation as the matter will be subjudice.
It amount to contempt of the court.

I, in the interest of Dawat-e-Hadiya advise you not to favour and sponsor any of the two contenders in the present dispute in the Dai’s family and harass the innocent Mumineen.
Your Well-wisher,

SAIFUDDIN INSAF

Biradar
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#2

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:28 am

I think you have really lost it, my friend Insaf. What is the point of this deranged rambling "letter"? A five year old would make more sense. Also, you say:

"You are now sponsoring one of the two contenders, Janab Mufaddal Sa[/color]ifuddin by praying for his welfare and long life after Magrib salah. Praying for any one else except Allah is an act of Shirk."

Really? Have you ever prayed for the welfare and good health of your parents? Your children? You must have, thousands of times. In the "bawissa" handbook there are specific prayers for parents and children, which one recites after saying two rakaats.

You are just repeatedly exposing your ignorance. If I was the Amil of Zaineed Masjid I would laugh at this silly letter and then flush it down the toilet. If you are considered the leading light of the progressives, then I think they are headed into the sunset.

hamhyd
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:09 am

Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#3

Unread post by hamhyd » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:04 am

Biradar wrote:I think you have really lost it, my friend Insaf. What is the point of this deranged rambling "letter"? A five year old would make more sense. Also, you say:

"You are now sponsoring one of the two contenders, Janab Mufaddal Sa[/color]ifuddin by praying for his welfare and long life after Magrib salah. Praying for any one else except Allah is an act of Shirk."

Really? Have you ever prayed for the welfare and good health of your parents? Your children? You must have, thousands of times. In the "bawissa" handbook there are specific prayers for parents and children, which one recites after saying two rakaats.

You are just repeatedly exposing your ignorance. If I was the Amil of Zaineed Masjid I would laugh at this silly letter and then flush it down the toilet. If you are considered the leading light of the progressives, then I think they are headed into the sunset.
agree with you reply on namaz what your opinion on contempt on court if its true then what

alam
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#4

Unread post by alam » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:09 am

Insaafbhai's post singling out one minuscule Jamaat for the reasons he mentions is disappointing. It applies to all jamaats. The points made are right on, but singling it out to just one jamaat seems a diluted effort.

Comment on shirk by Insaafbhai is downright irrelevant to the rest of the post, besides being inaccurate - as per Biradar's reasoning that we also do doa for our children, parents, the deceased among us. Also disappointing.

Biradarbhai - your insulting style of commenting is disappointing as well, whereby your valid points become diluted.

S. Insaf
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#5

Unread post by S. Insaf » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:54 am

They pray two rakat namaz after Magrip namaz for welfare and long life of Dai. Is it not Shirk?

Al-Noor
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#6

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:31 am

S. Insaf wrote:They pray two rakat namaz after Magrip namaz for welfare and long life of Dai. Is it not Shirk?
praying for any one is not shirk, but yes considering mufaddal or khuzaima as they are one who gives rizq or babies or shifa is shirk. nauzobillah

true_bohra
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#7

Unread post by true_bohra » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:16 am

Saifuddin Insaf you have completely lost it...as pointed by biradar dont you pray for the well being of parents and children.

suleman
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#8

Unread post by suleman » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:10 am

true_bohra wrote:Saifuddin Insaf you have completely lost it...as pointed by biradar dont you pray for the well being of parents and children.
Keya Namaz ko lay kay fight krray hu app log.. dusray sawalo ka javab du, jo letter may likha hai....

humanbeing
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#9

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:30 am

Insaf saab

Your open letter was good, but objecting on prayers for healthy long life of muffy maula became the highlight and diversion from other interesting issues.

in my limited opinion, financial accountability could be a good start. decades of brainwashing will not go away anytime soon. one has to stick with financial accountability to gain credibility to bring transparency.

Al-Noor
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#10

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:41 am

obviously abdes of khuzaima and muffy are trying to divert the topic, but this has always been going on.

Insaaf sahab your wrote a good letter even if Amil flush it in toilet you have made your point.

jazakallah

Biradar
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#11

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:01 pm

Let me raise a couple of more points.

First, independent of court outcome, people are free to believe in whomever they want. The court will not be able to force people to believe one way or another. This is how it should be (and is) in a secular, democratic nation like India. Hence, if a group of people think that Mr. Muffadul is the da'i, they are free to preach that and believe that, independent of court outcome. A simple look at history proves this.

Second, the whole letter is pointless. It is poorly written and the only relevant point (of sabil) is lost among the gross (and, frankly, grotesquely funny) errors. Strangely, S. Insaf continues to think that praying for the long life of someone is shirk! I mean, if this is the understanding of Islam, then I think the rest of his points can be rejected out of hand.

Third, S. Insaf has done a lot for the reform movement. However, I think that the events of the last two years have left the reformists essentially in a limbo, and perhaps has cut them off permanently from the main community. No one will take them seriously till they take a firm stand either way on who they consider is the da'i. They can choose to wiffle-waffle on this but unless they take a stance, they risk becoming a separate and independent Bohra sect. Which is of course perfectly fine.

I apologize as my original post does seem a bit rude. My intention is to point out that these letters are ineffective and pointless, specially when written poorly, without any careful thought or editing, and with gross errors. The whole impact is lost, and, in fact, one ends of making a laughingstock of oneself.

anajmi
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#12

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:42 pm

Praying two rakah for someones health is not shirk. However the praying of 2 rakat for this dai as imposed on the bohras is most definitely shirk. Biradar is ignorant about shirk and needs to hit the library to understand it better.

S. Insaf needs to clarify this as someone with insufficient knowledge of shirk might be confused.

Al-Noor
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#13

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:00 pm

Mr Birader

right now bohra community is in such a state where it is impossible for any true momeen to chose between muffy or khuzema, both have suspicious background and on top their predecessor him self has died with lot many unanswered questions, I understand you have chose to follow khuzema but for those who see with the glasses of HAQ and ISLAM it is impossible to follow any.

JavedhJuma
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#14

Unread post by JavedhJuma » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:09 pm

Praying for any one else except Allah is an act of Shirk."
We do not pray "for Allah". We pray to Him. We pray to Allah SWT to help us, our relatives and friends and others who need His blessings and guidance.

There are umpteen people around the world who need our prayers, and Da'i is certainly not one of them. He is already blessed a lot!!!!! :oops:

Biradar
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#15

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:24 pm

Al-Noor wrote:Mr Birader

right now bohra community is in such a state where it is impossible for any true momeen to chose between muffy or khuzema, both have suspicious background and on top their predecessor him self has died with lot many unanswered questions, I understand you have chose to follow khuzema but for those who see with the glasses of HAQ and ISLAM it is impossible to follow any.
My friend, you seem to think that you are on HAQ, in all capitals. Everyone in this world thinks exactly the same, even though they may hold mutually contradictory views. Just using green colors does not make you on haq.

From your posts here it is clear you are a fanatic, who is certain about everything. You have insulted parents for putting a well-meaning ad for their child. As such, you have displayed the classic sign of fanaticism, hubris. Hence, arguing with you is pointless.

To those who claim that praying for someone's health and long life is shirk, I ask for evidence. I am not a fan of Mr. Muffadul. However, the people who follow him do so with genuine conviction. Many may be unhappy about finances, but they pray for him with sincerity. It is not imposed, at least not on the majority. If one says that it is imposed, then one must also say that farizat namaaz is also imposed. It is, by definition, compulsory. Now, the 2 rakaats are not compulsory, although most people would say them, specially in public. However, there is no shirk involved, despite the mad-mullahs here shouting "shirk, shirk" at everything they don't like.

Al-Noor
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#16

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Biradar wrote:
Al-Noor wrote:Mr Birader

right now bohra community is in such a state where it is impossible for any true momeen to chose between muffy or khuzema, both have suspicious background and on top their predecessor him self has died with lot many unanswered questions, I understand you have chose to follow khuzema but for those who see with the glasses of HAQ and ISLAM it is impossible to follow any.
My friend, you seem to think that you are on HAQ, in all capitals. Everyone in this world thinks exactly the same, even though they may hold mutually contradictory views. Just using green colors does not make you on haq.
you will be a terrific abde, congrats, just like Adam and other morons you have learnt the art of deviating important topics with silly arguments and running in circle trying to bite your own tail, I am sure you aqa khuzema must be very proud of you, after all you are turning into a zombie abde just like mufaddalis. :D

anajmi
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#17

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:24 pm

If one says that it is imposed, then one must also say that farizat namaaz is also imposed. It is, by definition, compulsory.
Precisely, and this compulsion, same as the fard namaaz, is what makes it shirk.

One also needs to remeber that according to bohra "scholars" the dai is their intercessor. If he needs 2 rakats from so many abdes every day, do you think he can actually do anything for anyone? Does he pray 2 rakat daily for everyone of his abdes? Of course not. Do the abde idiots ever pray two rakat for the prophet or ali or hassan hussein or fatima? Why this obsession with 2 rakat for the dai if not shirk?

Biradar
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#18

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:33 am

anajmi wrote:
If one says that it is imposed, then one must also say that farizat namaaz is also imposed. It is, by definition, compulsory.
Precisely, and this compulsion, same as the fard namaaz, is what makes it shirk.
What! Please point out where saying prayers for da'i is compulsory? You are setting up a straw-man argument. It is not compulsory and most people probably don't do this at home.

anajmi
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#19

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:36 pm

For bohras, things become compulsory because of the culture they live in. Dekha dekhi is the biggest bohra problem. The kothar manipulates bohras into making things compulsory for themselves, and then when confronted they deny their wrong doings. For eg. Bohras stand with folded hands in front of the dai like the hindus do in front of their idols. The way this works is bohras are manipulated into doing this by being frowned upon if you dont. Can you imagine the looks a bohra will get if he chooses to stand in front of the dai without folding his hands? He will become a pariah. So he stands with folded hands. Same is the case with the sajda to the dai. Of course when questioned in the light of the quran and sunnah of the prophet, the abdes and kothari agents will claim that people do it willingly and are not forced. But in fact, they are forced.

Its a pity that even educated people who have got so much education that they question the existence of Allah are still too stupid to understand this.

Zeal
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#20

Unread post by Zeal » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:39 am

Biradar,
True, the 2 rakats are not compulsory, but 99% people read it, just like farz prayers.
Now to the contrary , for sunnats which are being read from hundreds of years, only 10% stands up and prays.

Think and analyze why people are not praying prophets sunnats, but standing up for 2 rakats , in which dai's name is pronounced.

You will probably come close to understanding what shirk is !

hamhyd
Posts: 34
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#21

Unread post by hamhyd » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:48 am

Zeal wrote:Biradar,
True, the 2 rakats are not compulsory, but 99% people read it, just like farz prayers.
Now to the contrary , for sunnats which are being read from hundreds of years, only 10% stands up and prays.

Think and analyze why people are not praying prophets sunnats, but standing up for 2 rakats , in which dai's name is pronounced.

You will probably come close to understanding what shirk is !
from the year i take niyat of shuran i prefer to shukran of Allah Taala rather then dai tuyul umar

Dumbledore
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#22

Unread post by Dumbledore » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:11 am

hamhyd wrote:
Zeal wrote:Biradar,
True, the 2 rakats are not compulsory, but 99% people read it, just like farz prayers.
Now to the contrary , for sunnats which are being read from hundreds of years, only 10% stands up and prays.

Think and analyze why people are not praying prophets sunnats, but standing up for 2 rakats , in which dai's name is pronounced.

You will probably come close to understanding what shirk is !
from the year i take niyat of shuran i prefer to shukran of Allah Taala rather then dai tuyul umar
I also read two rakats of shukrana salaat instead.

saminaben
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#23

Unread post by saminaben » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:01 am

I do too, pray shukran alaa ne'mat ul- llahe ta'aala or daFil Aafat. I haven't had the nosiness or provocativeness yet to check in with my friends in masjid as to what they pray during the tulul Umr niyat. :roll:
Dumbledore wrote:
hamhyd wrote: from the year i take niyat of shuran i prefer to shukran of Allah Taala rather then dai tuyul umar
I also read two rakats of shukrana salaat instead.

asad
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#24

Unread post by asad » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:42 pm

Oh i thought i was the only one to be genius enough to pray Shukra namaaz for Allah instead of Dai's tulul umr. Glad others are their with me.

SBM
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#25

Unread post by SBM » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:50 pm

Never prayed TUS namaz except for my own parents

Dumbledore
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#26

Unread post by Dumbledore » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:12 pm

asad wrote:Oh i thought i was the only one to be genius enough to pray Shukra namaaz for Allah instead of Dai's tulul umr. Glad others are their with me.
Asad bhai,

Allah apne bando ko rastey sujha deta hai.

humanbeing
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#27

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:09 am

asad wrote:Oh i thought i was the only one to be genius enough to pray Shukra namaaz for Allah instead of Dai's tulul umr. Glad others are their with me.

me too .. wow .. there are smart people out there .. cool

hamhyd
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#28

Unread post by hamhyd » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:17 am

humanbeing wrote:
asad wrote:Oh i thought i was the only one to be genius enough to pray Shukra namaaz for Allah instead of Dai's tulul umr. Glad others are their with me.

me too .. wow .. there are smart people out there .. cool
yes thanks Asad bhai and every one who pray shukran namaz instead of dai tulu umr

humanbeing
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Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#29

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:32 am

hamhyd wrote:yes thanks Asad bhai and every one who pray shukran namaz instead of dai tulu umr
what does tulul umr mean ? is prayer for long life .. or healthy life !! .. it is funny to push allah for long life .. coz .. one is gonna live as long as they are destined that allah wills.

it is more logical to pray for good health how much ever we live.

hamhyd
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:09 am

Re: An Open Letter to Amil of Zainee Masjid - Mumbai

#30

Unread post by hamhyd » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:11 pm

humanbeing wrote:
hamhyd wrote:yes thanks Asad bhai and every one who pray shukran namaz instead of dai tulu umr
what does tulul umr mean ? is prayer for long life .. or healthy life !! .. it is funny to push allah for long life .. coz .. one is gonna live as long as they are destined that allah wills.

it is more logical to pray for good health how much ever we live.
i feel tulul umr namaz is nothing but a self glorification