Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

The purpose of this Forum is to highlight and discuss issues pertaining to specific Jamats. Please use this space responsibly and report facts. We reserve the right to edit/delete posts that we find are irrelevant and based on gossip and hearsay.
merchant786
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:50 am

Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#1

Unread post by merchant786 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:17 am

I have heard that there are lot of problems going on in the jamaats in this countries.I recently stumble upon a insider in Kothar and he confirmed that there have been many cases in which people have stopped coming to jamaats and even stopped paying the money.

Can someone put a highlight on this?

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#2

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:15 am

Merchant Bhai:

Your question lacks specificity. Which jamaats in US, Canada, & England you are talking about?

I live in New Jersey and don't see any rift within the jamaat ranks and goon amil Quresh Sahabuddin is dining an wining around without having any difficulty.

mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#3

Unread post by mumin » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:46 pm

merchant, you are correct. Los angeles, orlando, miami, atlanta , mississaga and houston. At one time the houston jamat was under the Los Angeles jamat, but no more.The Houston jamat is an independant jamat now without having to answer to the LosAngeles Jamat . Considering the size of LosAngeles, there is very poor participation. This moharram there were only about 12 thals. In austrailia a local person is made amil to lead the small jamat in sidney and melbourne and there is difference of opinion as to how things should be managed. These bhaisahebs and amils who got away with first class acting are finding out that they are being caught as more and more people are becoming knowledgeable about their various self interest schemes.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#4

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:17 pm

Australia Amil arrived some time ago in Muharram and heard he is a decent guy from Mumbai Kothar no force no demands ..so far business as usual and no surprises no alarming activity. Something worked ..trying to figure out what it is ? Is it unique to Australia or there is a global wind of change ! I will celebrate the small victory and withdraw my battle charge , recalculate my methods until required again , I will be alert incase this is a ploy.

merchant786
Posts: 116
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#5

Unread post by merchant786 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:59 am

Well my reason for asking this is specific to people not attending jamaats and also a sharp decrease in the number of people in jamaat as people as not paying any money in ramzan and also not attending any wayaz and majlis

Infact in mumbai as well we see many people attending shia majlis and going for zanjeer matam rather than attending the wayaz in bohra masjid.

alik
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:49 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#6

Unread post by alik » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:47 am

your observation is a bit incoorect..ppl who attend shia majlis…never attended main stream bohra majlis ever……
And in usa…boss…bohrism sells well..away from home country etc…..
All in all it’s a win win situation for kothar…..jab tak abuu zindaa hai loot loo

merchant786
Posts: 116
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#7

Unread post by merchant786 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:14 am

Well then why is it that we are reducing in numbers day by day
and why does shehzadas has to travel to sort the matter everytime and ensure there is no beans spilled

I had come to know that there is a lot of issues in Houston Jamaat due to which there have been lot of fights happening and also
people have complained a lot about the harrassment

mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#8

Unread post by mumin » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:23 pm

it all depends on how strong willed the local jamat committee is. There have been cases in small villages of India where a bhaisaheb was sent to take care of the mumineen. The bhaisaheb seeing the opportunity started demanding unreasonable favours. He increased the sabil amount and other wajibats. The people refused to give in. The matter was bought to the DaiS attention. The bhaisaheb was removed and the people of the village contributed whatever they could. So, it all depends on how wise and strong the jamat committee is in dealing with the appointed Amil.. If the jamat committe bends over to the unreasonable demands of the amil then that same stress is passed on to its members and down to the mumineen community who ultimately has to suffer by dishing out huge sums of money to meet the amils demands.

guy_sam2005
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#9

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:55 am

Actually if u see in most of the places the real culprits are not aamils n so but our own ppl who surround them either for benefits or fame.so when we dont have the gts 2 question them wh are we to question the persons whos gonna stay not more than 4-5 yrs.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#10

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:45 am

I have been quietly watching all this time but decided to set few thiings straight. first of all we Houstonian are glad we were never under Los Angeles jamaat (LAJ). LAJ is the most corrupted jamaat in the whole USA where the Aamil, Secretary,and the treasurer have not changed in last 20 years, because if the secretary or the treasurer is changed then all the secrets of the aamils financial sjenanigans will get out so this keeps the lid on them. We have heard horrible stories of his unusual demands of salaams and special food cooked just for him alone and pampering of his whole family of a dozen peole and his luxurious living in palatial homes while our shahzada saheb lives in a normal home like our own. If our aamil behaved like that we can always complain to shahzada saheb but LAJ has no one to complain to, I feel sorry for them but thank God he is not our aamil.

guy_sam2005
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#11

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:18 am

if anyone considers aamils to be corrupt or so try complaining to shezada's in a decent way on in large scale..it sure wil work...it has in many places

alik
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:49 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#12

Unread post by alik » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:54 am

guy sam 2005-you are too good man!!u remind be of chatur(3idiots fames) the speeach balatkar pe balatkar....
u r superb....just love it man....kya thought process hai...kya laguage pe aapki grib haaai ..tooo good....where u my any chance in england??

guy_sam2005
Posts: 819
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#13

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:24 am

alik wrote:guy sam 2005-you are too good man!!u remind be of chatur(3idiots fames) the speeach balatkar pe balatkar....
u r superb....just love it man....kya thought process hai...kya laguage pe aapki grib haaai ..tooo good....where u my any chance in england??
u lookin 4 war of words wit me...which i wont give u dude.........i aint here to xchange abuses wit u...xpect replies nly from people whose minds work not just tongues.....u remind me of the guy who tries to rag aamir and gets his thing fried of the same movie..........

alik
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:49 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#14

Unread post by alik » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:20 am

Doesn’t it sound insane!!!! Imagine shezadas hire amils,amils do everything as per their instructions……now why the hell with shezada(goon) entertain complaint against his own amil….

guy_sam2005
Posts: 819
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#15

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:56 am

alik wrote:Doesn’t it sound insane!!!! Imagine shezadas hire amils,amils do everything as per their instructions……now why the hell with shezada(goon) entertain complaint against his own amil….
no 2 ppl on this platet think the same way.some ppl are good some bad...ther are some pretty good aamils some pretty bad.some have a hard way to collect money but give great results.some are pure corrupt..it maybe that u havent come accross good ones.i know some who have collect wit a iron hand but is utilised for better cause only.ther are also some who toil day n night in places where not much monetary benefits can be expected.its just the few rotten grapes bringin a bad name 2 the lot.

guy_sam2005
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#16

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:05 am

alik wrote:Doesn’t it sound insane!!!! Imagine shezadas hire amils,amils do everything as per their instructions……now why the hell with shezada(goon) entertain complaint against his own amil….
shezadas dont hire aamils.they are mostly from extended family,or ones havin religious education or so.if want too one aamil cant be just dismissed.and they do entertain complaints.just dont expect immediate results .its not as same as goin 2 princi in school and complainin of a class bully.i know of a aamil who thought he would bat for min 8 yrs cuz of his influense and started all new ways of u know wat.when the outer ring ppl raised voice where it should be heard he was tranferred.some inner ring ppl who tried to stop the tranfer were given good bashing by a shezada too.

mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#17

Unread post by mumin » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:09 pm

if the shezada can remove an amil then he can also remove the secretary and treasurer of the jamat. If the main culprits are the secretary and the treasurer then they are the ones that should be removed. As I said earlier , the main culprits are the jamat committee, comprising the secretary treasurer etc. The losAngeles jamat secretary and treasurer should have been removed a long time back and so also the secretary of atlanta jamat who has been holding his post by bribing the new amils with what else but the mumineen's money. These secretaries demand more and more money from the mumineen so they can give it to the amil and be in the amil's good books.
hence the amil does not want to bite the hand that feeds him. As a matter of fact the amil is made the president of the local jamat to start with. There has to be a check and balance. The money hungry and power hungry should be completely removed so the jamat can progress honestly. After all this is a religious, charitable institution not a dictatorial government.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#18

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:15 pm

guy_sam2005 wrote:some have a hard way to collect money but give great results..
reminds of a farmer who had a prize bull which he used as a stud. that bull was one horny, randy ole piece of work.. he hammered the cows so badly that many of them stopped giving milk out of fear when close to this raging bull.. but the bull delivered results. thats all that mattered.

like guysam dude. u oughta be a professor of english and philosophy at oxford, harvard and other colleges of repute.. like yr quotes are world class and cool and all that like yu know dude..u a sage or maharishi or someting? u 2 cool man, wassup? like ur brain zaps us man.. LMFAO man like..

guy_sam2005
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#19

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:44 am

mumin wrote:if the shezada can remove an amil then he can also remove the secretary and treasurer of the jamat. If the main culprits are the secretary and the treasurer then they are the ones that should be removed. As I said earlier , the main culprits are the jamat committee, comprising the secretary treasurer etc. The losAngeles jamat secretary and treasurer should have been removed a long time back and so also the secretary of atlanta jamat who has been holding his post by bribing the new amils with what else but the mumineen's money. These secretaries demand more and more money from the mumineen so they can give it to the amil and be in the amil's good books.
hence the amil does not want to bite the hand that feeds him. As a matter of fact the amil is made the president of the local jamat to start with. There has to be a check and balance. The money hungry and power hungry should be completely removed so the jamat can progress honestly. After all this is a religious, charitable institution not a dictatorial government.
secretaries n co cant be removed frm there it has 2 be done locally.they cant be completely removed .ill ask u a quest.just tell me yes or no first.
do u agree manmohan is a honest prime minister with genuine interests?

guy_sam2005
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#20

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:49 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
guy_sam2005 wrote:some have a hard way to collect money but give great results..
reminds of a farmer who had a prize bull which he used as a stud. that bull was one horny, randy ole piece of work.. he hammered the cows so badly that many of them stopped giving milk out of fear when close to this raging bull.. but the bull delivered results. thats all that mattered.

like guysam dude. u oughta be a professor of english and philosophy at oxford, harvard and other colleges of repute.. like yr quotes are world class and cool and all that like yu know dude..u a sage or maharishi or someting? u 2 cool man, wassup? like ur brain zaps us man.. LMFAO man like..
my english dont think that gud..philosophy cud jus be..nyways i knw u bein sarcastic so.....
well the eg u gave here is wat i feel irrelevant...even for some positive changes u need a iron hand....to make even 2 ppl agree to a point is impossible..how can u make 1000's go in 1 direction if u dont be a lil strict.........
n 4 the cows hope the bull is able 2 convey its point n make them give milk again..so v can have more cheese n butter.

SBM
Posts: 6231
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#21

Unread post by SBM » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:52 am

how can u make 1000's go in 1 direction if u dont be a lil strict.
Guy
So you agree that all Bohras aka ABDES are sheep WOW you finally agreed what has been discussed on this forum.

guy_sam2005
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#22

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:22 am

omabharti wrote:
how can u make 1000's go in 1 direction if u dont be a lil strict.
Guy
So you agree that all Bohras aka ABDES are sheep WOW you finally agreed what has been discussed on this forum.
yes we are and moula(tus)s our shepard.we are not led by a buthcer like u guys are....

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#23

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:13 am

a quote for guy sam...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln.

guy_sam2005
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#24

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:38 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:a quote for guy sam...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln.
thanks for your praises...........i am honoured to be a fool in your books...this is my last reply to u..i wont be replyin to al-zulfiqar's posts..
am here not fight like a kid..
good luck with your reforms al-zulfi...hope u find the right part

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#25

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:55 pm

guy_sam2005 wrote: thanks for your praises...........i am honoured to be a fool in your books...this is my last reply to u..i wont be replyin to al-zulfiqar's posts..
am here not fight like a kid..
good luck with your reforms al-zulfi...hope u find the right part
after your words in one of your posts above:

"my english dont think that gud..philosophy cud jus be.."

... it is me who should be honored that you are a fool in my books. i was thoroughly enjoying our intellectual debate and all the thrust and parry which is very rare on this forum. we seldom get to see such lofty wisdom as you have displayed here and it will be our collective loss if you walk away like a kid.

i suggest that after the ingestion of a few doses of phook nu pani and a few sessions of sabaks and sajdas, you return invigorated in spirit and religious information and resume our mentally stimulating discourse. meanwhile, pls find out from your amil where is the ziyarat of syedna's mother, how she died and where is her family now.

tanks for tat dude.

merchant786
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:50 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#26

Unread post by merchant786 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:07 am

Well I have heard there has been some latest problem started in the suburbs of Mumbai for the fund collection.

I dont remember the suburbs name as I am not from India....Can someone please put a light on this?

merchant786
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#27

Unread post by merchant786 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:31 pm

Also are you guys aware that most of the properties in surat are not registered under the wakf board

Also the masjids inside Saifee mahal and Jamaiya are termed as private property which is against the law of the board as they are used for worship by masses of bohra community

guy_sam2005
Posts: 819
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#28

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:55 am

merchant786 wrote:Also are you guys aware that most of the properties in surat are not registered under the wakf board

Also the masjids inside Saifee mahal and Jamaiya are termed as private property which is against the law of the board as they are used for worship by masses of bohra community
so why complainin here..go and complain with the board....

merchant786
Posts: 116
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Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#29

Unread post by merchant786 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:33 am

well I would have done that but you know what I really like to see how you guys ponder on the blink of the eyes for Syedna...

If complain and they seal all the properties where will you go to lick the feets of the royal family????

The only option left would be Afghanistan and Pakistan as Islamic terrorism is only allowed there.

Rest all countries treat Islam as a pure religion.

guy_sam2005
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Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

Re: Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

#30

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:10 am

merchant786 wrote:well I would have done that but you know what I really like to see how you guys ponder on the blink of the eyes for Syedna...

If complain and they seal all the properties where will you go to lick the feets of the royal family????

The only option left would be Afghanistan and Pakistan as Islamic terrorism is only allowed there.

Rest all countries treat Islam as a pure religion.
oh since when u guys worried bout us...just accept you dont have guts...dont worry about us..we will lick feet in photos if not possible to do in saifee mahal..worry bout yourself dude.you oppose us only cause we are here.if we went to afghan or pak..you will follow us there too.cause we are your only identity which you dont wanna accept nor leave