Police investigating FGM in community

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SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#121

Unread post by SBM » Mon May 26, 2014 1:19 pm

Br as2153
In Some parts of the world Slavery is still considered okay, human trafficking is considered okay, just because certain minority members of the society think it is okay, do we defend their rights of freedom. Freedom and Free Expression of speech is a great gift but it also comes with responsibilities.
Do Govt have right to stop people from Smoking you may argue that Govts are trampling on the free rights of many but health issues requires that sometimes it has to act.
In USA NRA defends carrying the gun despite the fact that Gun related violence in USA is highest in the world, does it justify that right of free expression.
Some times you have to use judgment for the betterment of the society.
Medically it has been proven that FGM does not serve any useful purpose while MGM has some proven medical benefits.
While FGM does curb the sexual pleasures of female MGM does no such thing, so who are we to decide to take that God given pleasure from them.

Ozdundee
Posts: 878
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#122

Unread post by Ozdundee » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:36 pm

Did everyone pick that in media reports the accused lawyers in court have kind of admitted that the community practises FGM. So now they are trying to wiggle from how FgM is defined and claim it was not fgm what they practised . Good luck!

The public discussions in non Bohra and authorities! including foreign diplomatic circles are they are surprised no bohra has broken ranks and gone as witnesses. This demonstrates the Bohra communities lack of patriotism and loyalty in social matters. This also generalises that Bohras wholly support the illegal practise and are now considered one of the bad imports as communities and regret from allowing them to settle in Australia with such traditions, they cannot deport those who have settled . I would have gone as a witness but being a male I cannot be a witness , they need women , victims or parents to go forward .

This is a big admission with global ramifications. SMS , SKQ and reformists will be painted with the same brush unfortunately.

The Islamic community is also angered that as long as this news regurgitates in media the Muslim society is taking blows. One official has suggested they will run publicity to claim Bohras are not mainstream islam and they cannot be seen to be associated with us, which is not untrue.
Defence lawyers for all three argued that, unless circumcision and tissue removal are involved, it is technically not mutilation, and referred to male circumcision as an example.

But Dr Brown ruled that "all non-medical mutilation is prohibited.

"Any nick or cut to the clitoris will amount to mutilation," he said.

"FGM is prohibited regardless of religion or cultural attempts to justify the practice."

chocoman
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:37 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#123

Unread post by chocoman » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:33 am

Interesting thread....please do keep us updated with the latest news. Thanks...

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#124

Unread post by New » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:55 am

With this Australian citation, can a brave soul report this to the US State Dept. not to allow the Zadas to enter the US as they practice FGM. This will really put our religious head and amils in a precarious position.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
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Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#125

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:51 pm

Female mutilation a means of male power over women - UN rights chief

GENEVA (Reuters) - Female genital mutilation, the excision of the clitoris practised widely in African and many Muslim countries, is a means for men to maintain control of women and must be eradicated, U.N. human rights chief Navi Pillay said on Monday.

Even if a current global campaign against the practice - dubbed FGM - continued at its current level of success, it would be 60 years until the total of well over 125 million women and girls now affected was reduced by half, she said.

"FGM is a form of gender-based discrimination and violence. It is a violation of the right (of women and girls) to physical and mental integrity," Pillay told a gathering on the issue at the world body's Human Rights Council.

"As many as 30 million girls are at risk of undergoing it over the next decade, if current trends persist."

The traditional practice, often justified as a means of suppressing a woman's sexual desire and so preventing "immoral" behaviour, "represents a way to exercise control over women," said the former South African High Court judge.

She was backed at the session by Chantal Campaore, wife of President Blaise Campaore of the West African republic of Burkina Fasso, who has been pushing efforts on the continent to persuade communities to abandon it.

TRADITION AND RELIGION

The driving factors behind FGM, Mme Campaore said, were "tradition, customs and religion". Families - in which under-age children are the prime victims - went along with it because they feared exclusion if they did not.

The U.N. children's agency UNICEF says the 125 million plus figure of girls and women applies to the 29 countries with the highest prevalence rates. Many are in precarious health as a result of the operation.

As of last year, according to UNICEF, 98 percent of women and girls in Somalia were victims of FGM - often carried out by other female family members with no medical training. In Guinea the figure was 96 percent and in Egypt 91 percent.

It is also believed to be practised fairly widely in some immigrant communities in Europe, where many governments have moved to make it a criminal offence.

Campaigners say that the practice is often promoted by local Islamic preachers, although senior Muslim clerics in many countries, including Egypt, have denounced it as against the ethos of the religion.

An Egyptian delegate, speaking for member states of the Arab League, told the U.N. session Arab states were all committed to ending FGM through health drives and by making it a crime. "It has nothing to do with religion," he declared.

https://in.news.yahoo.com/female-mutila ... 14227.html

Ozdundee
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Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#126

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:59 am

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/the-m ... 51258.html
Britain's most prominent Muslim organisation today announced a new drive to tell its followers that female genital mutilation is contrary to Islam and should be shunned to save girls from serious damage to their health.

The Muslim Council of Britain said that it would distribute leaflets in mosques and community centres across the country as it threw its support behind the campaign to end the barbaric practice.

It said that it was “not true” that mutilation was a Muslim requirement and that instead one of the “basic principles” of Islam was that followers should not harm themselves or others.

It added that FGM was bringing Islam “into disrepute” and could cause severe pain, bleeding, problems in pregnancy and even death, as well leaving some victims with lasting pyschological problems.

Announcing today’s move, which will be welcomed by campaigners as a major breakthrough in the fight against FGM, Dr Shuja Shafi, the secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said that the leaflet would be displayed at more than 500 mosques and community centres nationwide.

He added: “We at the MCB are pleased to address this very important issue of female genital mutilation. Working closely together we can end this practice and ensure it is no longer linked to the religion of Islam or the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad.”

Dr Soheir Elneil, the chairwoman of the African women’s campaign group Forward, which helped to prepare the leaflet, said the publication was an important step forward in the battle to protect girls.

“This is the first time such a publication has been achieved with the full cooperation and support of the relevant parties, and we hope all those working in FGM will find it a helpful tool in the work that they do.

“It states that FGM is non-Islamic and is against the teachings of Islam, that it is putting the health of women and girls at risk, and informs the reader of the legal implications in the UK of carrying out the practice.”

The new leaflet states: “FGM is not an Islamic requirement. There is no reference to it in the Holy Qu’ran that states girls must be circumcised. Nor is there any authentic reference to this in the Sunnah, the sayings or traditions of our Prophet. FGM is bringing the religion of Islam into disrepute.”

The document also warns that there is “an increasingly high risk of being prosecuted” for carrying out mutilation, which has been illegal in this country since 1985, and that perpetrators face up to 14 years in prison.

Today’s announcement follows a Home Office summit yesterday at which other religious organisations, including the Shia al-Khoei Foundation and the Muslim Women’s Network UK, announced their support for a government declaration against FGM to be published next month.

Ozdundee
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#127

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:06 am

Take note the statement in bold this is directed to Bohras! Speech by John Kerry US government official working directly under the President.
The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) joins the global community in observing February 6th as the International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation, an internationally recognized day to foster awareness of the devastating effects of female genital mutilation and cutting (FGM/C) and to renew the call for the abandonment of this harmful traditional practice.

Every year, more than 3 million girls in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and diaspora communities in the West are at risk of FGM/C. According to the World Health Organization, as many as 100 to 140 million girls and women worldwide currently live with the consequences of this dangerous practice. The procedure, which involves the partial or total removal of the external genitalia, is largely performed on girls from infancy to the age 15 .

FGM/C is practiced across cultures and religions, though no religion mandates the procedure. It is practiced essentially in 28 countries in sub-Saharan Africa and in Indonesia, Malaysia and northern Iraq, and new evidence is showing prevalence in other Middle Eastern countries, including Iran, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Yemen. The practice also can be found in Europe, the United States, Australia and other countries where immigrants bring their cultural traditions with them.



View the International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting Infographic
USAID’s Support
USAID has supported FGM/C abandonment efforts since the early 1990s, considering FGM/C not only a public health issue, but also a violation of a woman’s right to bodily integrity. In September 2000, the Agency officially incorporated abandonment of FGM/C into its development agenda, issuing an official policy [PDF, 19KB] and strategy on FGM/C. Over the years, the Agency has found, through programs and research, that the process of positive social transformation can occur when programs and policies focus on enabling communities to make their own collective choice to abandon FGM/C. These efforts are enhanced by educational campaigns and policy change.

The U.S. government supports the women and men around the world who denounce this egregious practice and act to abolish it. While we have made tremendous progress over the past decade, work still lies ahead. We must all work together – men, women, grandfathers, grandmothers, community and religious leaders, government, civil society and multilateral organizations – to overturn deeply entrenched social norms that are not only harmful to women and girls, but also to our communities and societies.

Join the Conversation
Use the hashtag #EndFGM and your voice to call for the abandonment of this harmful traditional practice.


Additional Links and Resources
USAID IMPACTblog Post by Ellen Starbird, Director of the Office of Population and Reproductive Health: Why support efforts to abandon Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting?
USAID IMPACTblog Post by Katie Taylor, Deputy Assistant Administrator for Global Health: Eliminating Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting
Remarks by Secretary of State John Kerry on International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital mutilation.

Ozdundee
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#128

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:51 am

The Female genital mutilation (FGM) case before Parramatta District Court (The first in NSW) has been adjourned to a later date. A protest against FGM was held outside the courthouse by about twenty Australian Party for Freedom activists.

SUBMITTED BY
Richard Milnes
Sydney, Australia, Asia
Below is a worrying out of control this issue is getting where right wing political parties are getting involved.


WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#130

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:34 am

Action against FMG is taken in countries like Australia , USA , UK etc. what about developing countries like India, Pakistan ? I think 95 % mistake is of our mother's in this matter who unjustly do this without thinking for a second of the consequences.

Invictius
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#131

Unread post by Invictius » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:40 am

While you cannot impose FGC on anyone, it is the right of the parents to decide what is best for their child. So long as the surgery conducted is safe, and pain minimalized, Female circumcision should be the prerogative of the parents. Parents have sole rights over their child till the age of majority. As long as the surgery involves cutting just the prepuce of the clitoris- a minute clip, it should be allowed. Partial/ total removal of clitoris should be condemned.

WiththenameofAllah
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#132

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:54 pm

You think this butchery is allowed ? Something that is not even from sunnah. If you are a man it must be easier to say all this. Nobody has the right to cut you !!!

Invictius
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#133

Unread post by Invictius » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:31 am

WiththenameofAllah wrote:You think this butchery is allowed ? Something that is not even from sunnah. If you are a man it must be easier to say all this. Nobody has the right to cut you !!!
It is very much sunnah. Why on earth would we practice it at all if it wasn't? Let me also point out, that in Islamic Jurisprudence, what is not forbidden is allowed. Show me any islamic source which says FGC is prohibited in the quran or other hadith if you can.

SBM
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Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#134

Unread post by SBM » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:01 am

It is very much sunnah. Why on earth would we practice it at all if it wasn't?
Is praying two Rakats of Namaz for SMB and SMS is Sunnah?, but you do practice it, Doing Maatam after every Fard Salah is Sunnah? but you do it anyway SO stopping talking about Sunnah since Abdes do not follow any Sunnah and just use it convincingly when suits them and to answer your question FGM is NOT SUNNAH it is only Male circumcision which is SUNNAH and NOT FARD.
Show me any islamic source which says FGC is prohibited in the quran
Show me any Ayah in the Quran which says FGC as well as Male circumcision is allowed and that is why male circumcision is called SUNNAH
BTW DO YOU KNOW THE MEANING OF SUNNAH IT SEEMS YOU DONOT KNOW SINCE YOU MENTION SUNNAH AND COMMAND OF ALLAH THRU QURAN IN THE SAME SENTENCE. YOU OBVIOUSLY DID NOT TAKE PROPER TEACHING FROM YOUR JAMEA TEACHERS OR IN YOUR SABAK. WHAT A WASTE OF YOUR TIME.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#135

Unread post by SBM » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:06 am

Let me also point out, that in Islamic Jurisprudence, what is not forbidden is allowed.
Oh really so why Kothari Goons keep on harping not to eat any food cooked by Hindus where does it says in Islamic Jurisprudence that meals cooked by Non Muslims is forbidden?
Like I said you did not get proper training in Jamea

Ozdundee
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#136

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:12 am

Invictius you do agree it as Sunnah and not fardh? Right! You do agree it is detrimental to a girls psychology and physical nature that Allah created.

The basis of religious practises have to first and foremost comply with the Quran. The Prophet SAw would never contradict the Quran.
"I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest.

—Qur'an, [Quran 4:119]
Why would anyone sincere to Islamic guidance try to challenge the Quran by convoluted sunnah interpretations to justify their human inspired practises ?

Further more the authorities have sensitively researched and have checked over and over with Islamic scholars that Islam does not demand FGM . If Islam had made it mandatory , great Scholars like Muftis of Egypt, Ayatollahs would not support the banning . So your personal views are really personal. For Bohras if they want to give up their freedom and spend jail time to be so hard lined supporters of FGM well so be it.

I don't know which country you come from but in western democracies the parents have limited rights over their children. When a child's health is impacted , law which is made by societies political representatives , have instructed that the law can intervene. Parents have no absolute rights. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant that is the law period. You as an individual or minority cannot challenge it. If you don't like the law you can migrate to where the society treats children, and women inferior .


http://www.alislam.org/library/articles ... ic-law.pdf

Now surely Bohra ideology has never conformed to the more popular or mainstream ideologies. So whatever explanation is provided they will fights back. But there comes a limit that of they pay the price of prison,met so be it.

Shia do not promote it
6) According to the Ja‘fariyyah School of thought (i.e. the Shi‘ite sect), circumcision is necessary for men and is a Sunnah of Hadrat Ibrahimas; but it does not apply to women. Al-Kafi, which is a renowned book of Shi‘ite law says, ‘it is a Sunnah to circumcise men but it is not Sunnah to circumcise women.’2 In another Shi‘ite book of traditions, ‘Mal-La Yahdorohul-Faqiho, it is mentioned, ‘Hadrat Imam Ja‘far Bin Muhammad reporting an account given to him by his father says, ‘Hadrat ‘Alira said that if a woman is not circumcised it is acceptable but it is obligatory for a man to be circumcised.’3
asalaam alaikum


maybe useful?


Female Circumcision & Islam
| Sheikh (Dr.) `Abd al-Rahmân b. Hasan al-Nafisah, editor of the Contemporary Jurisprudence Research Journal , Riyadh|


The question of female circumcision in Muslim lands attracts considerable media attention. This is probably due to the negative reactions and condemnation that the practice provokes – especially in European countries that have large Muslim communities. This attention grew considerably after one African Muslim discussed on television the way that this circumcision is carried out and declared that the practice was recommended by Islamic Law. This led certain countries to pass legislation prohibiting female circumcision on the grounds that it is harmful to women and a violation of their rights.

Pre-Islamic Arabia
Before discussing this practice in light of Islamic teachings, it behooves us to consider that the circumcision of girls is a custom that has been practiced since ancient times in parts of Africa, particularly in Egypt, Nubia, Sudan, and their surroundings. The prevalent type of female circumcision practiced in that region is known as Pharaonic circumcision, and it seems that the reason for it was the desire of the men in those societies to weaken the sexual desire of women in order to ensure their chastity.

It is quite possible that this practice spread to neighboring Arab countries from Egypt and practiced on occasion or that Arabs were at least aware of this custom before the advent of Islam, since customs can spread from one society to another. However, I have not come across any verifiable evidence that the Arabs of pre-Islamic times were in the practice of circumcising their daughters. Among them were those who killed their daughters fearing the shame that they brought and had no need for circumcision.

What is reported in the Sunnah
There are some narrations attributed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) concerning female circumcision. The most important of which are the following:

1. “Circumcision is Sunnah for men and an honorable thing for women.” [Musnad Ahmad (19794)]

Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalâni discusses this hadîth in al-Talkhîs al-Habîr (4/1407):
Ahmad and al-Bayhaqî narrate this hadîth from al-Hajjâj b. Arta’ah who narrates it from Abû al-Mulayh from Usâmah from his father.

This al-Hajjâj is one who is known to use ambiguous terms in conveying his chain of transmission, and moreover he is inconsistent in this narration. Sometimes he cites his chain of transmission as given above and at other times he mentions an additional narrator named Shidâd b. `Aws after Abû Mulayh’s father. This is how we find the hadîth being narrated in Musannaf Ibn Abî Shaybah, Ibn Abî Hâtim’s `Ilal, and Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Kabîr.

At other times, he narrates the hadîth from Makhûl from Abû Ayyûb. This narration can be found in Musnad Ahmad. Ibn Abî Hâtim mentions this in al-`Ilal and quotes his father as laying the blame for the mistake on either al-Hajjâj or the narrator who relates it from him `Abd al-Wâhid b. Ziyâd. Al-Bayhaqî says about `Abd al-Wâhid b. Ziyâd: “He is a weak narrator and his narrations are incomplete.”

In al-Tamhîd, Ibn `Abd al-Barr says: “This hadîth depends upon the narration of al-Hajjâj b. Arta’ah whose narrations cannot be used as evidence for anything.”

The hadîth is in fact related by a narrator other than al-Hajjâj b. Arta’ah. This statement is related in Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Kabîr and in Sunan al-Bayhaqî on the authority of Ibn `Abbâs back to the Prophet (peace be upon him). However, al-Bayhaqî himself declares it to be a weak hadîth when he mentions it in Sunan al-Bayhaqî. He says in his work al-Ma`rifah: “It is not authentic as a statement of the Prophet (peace be upon him).”
Therefore, this is a weak hadîth.

2. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is reported to have passed by a woman performing circumcision on a young girl. He instructed the woman by saying: “Trim, but do not cut into it, for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.” [Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Awsat (2274)]

Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalâni discusses this hadîth as well in al-Talkhîs al-Habîr (4/1407-1408):
Al-Hâkim relates it in al-Mustadrak from `Ubayd Allah b. `Amr who narrates it from Zayd b. Abî Usayd from `Abd al-Malik b. `Umayr from al-Dahhâk b. Qays that in Madînah there was a woman called Umm `Atiyyah who used to circumcise the slave girls, so Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said to her: “O Umm `Atiyyah! Trim, but do not cut into it, for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.”

It likewise related by al-Tabarânî, by Abû Nu`aym in al-Ma`rifah, and by al-Bayhaqî with essentially the same chain of transmission except that narrator `Ubayd Allah b. `Amr narrates it from “a man from the city of Kufah” from `Abd al-Malik b. `Umayr.

Al-Mufdil al-`Ulâ’î says : “I asked Ibn Ma`în about this hadîth and he told me that its narrator al-Dahhâk b. Qays is not al-Fahrî.”

However, al-Hâkim and Abû Nu`âym discuss him under the biographical entry of “al-Fahrî”.

`Abd al-Malik b. `Umayr is inconsistent in how he narrates this hadîth. Sometimes it is narrated from him as mentioned above. At other times, he is allegedly relating it from `Atiyyah al-Qurazî as beginning with the words: “In Madînah, there used to be a practitioner of circumcision called Umm `Atiyyah…” It is related in this way by Abû Nu`aym in al-Ma`rifah. At other times he allegedly relates it with Umm `Atiyyah being the narrator [and not the practitioner]. This is how it is related in Sunan Abî Dâwûd.

Abû Dâwûd [in Sûnan Abî Dâwûd (5271)] declares the hadîth to be defective on account of the narrator Muhammad b. Hassân, saying: “Muhammad b. Hassân is an unknown narrator and this hadîth is weak.”

Ibn `Adiyy and al-Bayhaqî confirm Abû Dâwûd’s judgment that Muhammad b. Hassân is an unknown narrator. `Abd al-Ghanî b. Sa`îd, the author of Îdâh al-Shakk, disagrees, saying: “He is Muhammad b. Sa`îd al-Maslûb.” He goes on to narrate this hadîth from Muhammad b. Sa`îd al-Maslûb in his biographical entry for that narrator.

There are two other lines of transmission for this hadîth:

1. Ibn `Adiyy narrates it from Sâlim b. `Abd Allah b. `Umar – and al-Bazzar relaes it from Nâfi` - from `Abd Allah b. `Umar that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “O women of Madînah! Do it lightly, trim and do not cut into it, for it is more favorable with your husbands. And do not deny Allah’s grace.” This wording is from al-Bazzar. In al-Bazzâr’s chain of transmission, there is the narrator Mandal b. `Alî who is a weak narrator. In Ibn `Adiyy’s chain of transmission, there is the narrator Khâlid b. `Amr al-Qurashî who is even weaker.

2. Al-Tabarânî relates it in al-Mu`jam al-Saghîr – and Ibn `Adiyy relates it as well – from Abî Khalîfah who narrates it from Muhammad b. Salâm al-Jamhî from Zâ’idah b. Abî Ruqqâd from Thâbit from Anas with a text like the one found in Sunan Abî Dâwûd.

Ibn `Adiyy comments on this line of transmission, saying: “Zâ’idah is the only narrator to relate his hadîth from Thâbit.”

Al-Tabarânî says: “Muhammad b. Salâm is the only one to relate it like this.”

Tha`lab says: “I saw Yahyâ b. Ma`în among some people with Muhammad b. Salâm right in front of me and he asked him about this hadîth.”

Al-Bukhârî says about Zâ’idah: “His hadîth are false.”

Ibn al-Mundhir says: “There is no report about circumcision that can be relied upon and no chain of transmission that can be followed.”
In Nayl al-Awtâr (1/137-139), al-Shawkâni discusses the hadîth of Umm `Atiyyah and says basically the same things about its weakness that Ibn Hajar says above.

Female circumcision according to the scholars of Islamic Law
Due to the weakness of the hadîth that refer to female circumcision – with some of their narrators being known for deceptiveness and others whose narrations carry no weight – scholars of Islamic Law have differed widely regarding its legal ruling.

In the Hanafî school of law there are two different opinions. Some Hanafî scholars consider it to be a Sunnah for women. Others consider it to be merely an honorable thing. [refer to: al-Fatâwâ al-Hindiyyah and al-Ikhtiyâr li-Tahlîl al-Mukhtâr]

It is considered a preferred act (mandûb) for women in the Mâlikî school of law. They rely upon the hadîth of Umm `Atiyyah for this ruling. [refer to: Bulghah al-Sâlik li-Aqrab al-Masâlik and Ashal al-Madârik Sharh Irshâd al-Sâlik]

In the Shâfi`î school of law, circumcision is considered an obligation for both men and women. This is the official ruling of that school of thought. Some Shâfi`î scholars express the view that circumcision is obligatory for men and merely Sunnah for women. [refer to: al-Majmû`]

In the Hanbalî school of law, circumcision is obligatory for men and merely an honorable thing for women. It is not obligatory for them. The Hanbalî jurist Ibn Qudâmah observes: “This is the view of many people of knowledge. Imam Ahmad said that it is more emphatic for men.” [al-Mughnî (1/115)]

Among contemporary legal scholars, al-Sayyid Sâbiq writes: “The hadîth that call for female circumcision are all weak. Nothing among them is authentic” [Fiqh al-Sunnah (1/36)]

Conclusions:
It appears that female circumcision is more a cultural practice than a matter of Islamic teachings. We have seen that the hadîth which refer to the practice are all weak. The presence of that practice in Egypt an Nubia up to this day is just a continuation of a practice that has been around since the time of the Pharaohs. It is often hard for people to give up deeply ingrained customs and cultural practiced. They continue to be passed down from generation to generation.

Another example of the tenacity of custom is the practice among Indian Muslims where the woman pays a dowry to the husband. This is a pre-Islamic Indian custom that Islam declares false. Islam requires the husband to pay a dowry to the wife. Nevertheless, this custom persists among Muslims in both India and Pakistan, even though the history of Islam in India goes back for many long centuries.

Likewise, Islam put an end to many pre-Islamic customs that marginalized women and denied them their rights. It put an end to people condemning each other’s lineages. It put an end to the practice of wailing at a person’s burial. Nonetheless, these practices can still be seen in some Muslim societies and are often regarded by the people of those societies to be part and parcel of Islamic Law.

The Shâfi`î school of law has been the prevalent legal school in Egypt since its formative years. It may be that the scholars of the Shâfi`î school who promoted the view that female circumcision is obligatory had been influenced by the prevailing culture of the region.

There is no evidence that this practice was widespread among the Pious Predecessors. Moreover, the practice has never been prevalent in the regions where Islam originated – Mecca and Madinah and the surrounding areas of Arabia. It is extremely rare. If female circumcision had truly been endorsed by Islamic Law, it would certainly have been practiced and perpetuated in those regions. Only male circumcision is practiced, due to the authentic evidence in the Sunnah that it is part of the natural way (fitrah).

We conclude that female circumcision is merely a cultural practice that has no prescribed Islamic ruling for it and that is supported by no decisive textual evidence. It is simply a regional custom in the places where it is practiced. We must then take into consideration that many medical professionals consider it to have detrimental affects for the girls who undergo the operation. On that basis, it would be impermissible to allow this custom to continue. In Islamic Law, preservation of the person – the life and bodily soundness of the person – is a legal necessity. Anything that compromises this legal necessity by bringing harm to the person is unlawful.

And Allah knows best.


http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cf...sub_cat_id=822

WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#137

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:09 pm

Thank you for providing detail. They do fmg on the name os Hazrat Ali (a.s). I have heard a story related to this .bohras have no respect for women . In masjid men only have one sport , find a beautiful rich girl to marry . And woman come nicely dressed to show off.

Invictius
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#138

Unread post by Invictius » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:45 pm

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is reported to have passed by a woman performing circumcision on a young girl. He instructed the woman by saying: “Trim, but do not cut into it, for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.” [Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Awsat (2274)]

The Prophet INSTRUCTED. That makes it sunnah. See, a minute clip to the clitoris will not reduce sexual pleasure, at least, not much. The right of a married girl to sexual pleasure is not taken away at all. Also, in our community, this practice is recommended strongly, but is not mandatory- just the same way as keeping a beard and wearing a topi. I understand your point of view. THis is mine.

Invictius
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#139

Unread post by Invictius » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:48 pm

SBM wrote:
It is very much sunnah. Why on earth would we practice it at all if it wasn't?
Is praying two Rakats of Namaz for SMB and SMS is Sunnah?, but you do practice it, Doing Maatam after every Fard Salah is Sunnah? but you do it anyway SO stopping talking about Sunnah since Abdes do not follow any Sunnah and just use it convincingly when suits them and to answer your question FGM is NOT SUNNAH it is only Male circumcision which is SUNNAH and NOT FARD.
Show me any islamic source which says FGC is prohibited in the quran
Show me any Ayah in the Quran which says FGC as well as Male circumcision is allowed and that is why male circumcision is called SUNNAH
BTW DO YOU KNOW THE MEANING OF SUNNAH IT SEEMS YOU DONOT KNOW SINCE YOU MENTION SUNNAH AND COMMAND OF ALLAH THRU QURAN IN THE SAME SENTENCE. YOU OBVIOUSLY DID NOT TAKE PROPER TEACHING FROM YOUR JAMEA TEACHERS OR IN YOUR SABAK. WHAT A WASTE OF YOUR TIME.
It isn't sunnah. That is tattavvo namaz. You clearly haven't even stepped into a madrasa. I pity your poor knowledge. Preaching about me not receiving proper teaching from Jamea. LOL. I've already told you, what isn't forbidden is allowed in Islam.

Invictius
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#140

Unread post by Invictius » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:53 pm

SBM wrote:
Let me also point out, that in Islamic Jurisprudence, what is not forbidden is allowed.
Oh really so why Kothari Goons keep on harping not to eat any food cooked by Hindus where does it says in Islamic Jurisprudence that meals cooked by Non Muslims is forbidden?
Like I said you did not get proper training in Jamea
Again, it is not forbidden- it is strongly discouraged. What is not forbidden is either jayiz (allowed)or makruh (disliked). Eating food of a Hindu falls under the latter category. It is permissible to eat food from people of all Abrahimic religions. Outside Abrahimic Religions, eating food of Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, etc. are makruh practices.

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#141

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:13 am

invictius In the hadith about circumcision, the Prophet PBUH did not forbid it, BUT he did not recommend it either!!
In fact he Limited the woman from how much she should get cut off. Things which aren't recommended by the prophet PBUH should not be done especially if they have no health benefits.

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#142

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:17 am

Honestly, even if it is not compulsory or if it is recommended the answer still boils down to this: you don't have to do it and it is not necessary (the definition of recommended is the advising or suggesting of an action but it does not mean it has to be done). So, even if something in the Qur'an says it is recommended, that does not mean it has to be done. Honestly, the people who support it seem to be misinterpreting what the Qur'an says. And, regardless, their arguments are invalid to me because of the simple fact that these 'procedures' are done in such a violent, unclean, and unhealthy manner. People can argue about it all they want, but that does not change the fact of the way these horrible 'procedures' are done. No one is supposed to be forced to do anything, AT ALL. And the reason why people are so against female genital mutilation is because it is a forced, mutilation of the female body that can be fatal or dangerous. Regardless of how people will justify it by saying that scholars say it should be done, it is done in such a way that is barbaric. The girls are, usually, forced into this without their consent (they are usually too young to give consent anyways) in the middle of the night almost in a kidnapping fashion. This is not a surgical procedure as the girls are not given a 'local' or a form of anesthesia, nor are the tools that are used (usually a regular razor blade) properly cleaned/sterilized. The wound itself, is not always properly stitched and the fact that it would have to be opened for child-birth or sexual intercourse

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#143

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:18 am

In short, the girl is put through extreme pain, shown little compassion, and is open to infection due to the way it is done. Many girls can die from the infections due to this procedure.

WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#144

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:53 am

Invictius wrote:Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is reported to have passed by a woman performing circumcision on a young girl. He instructed the woman by saying: “Trim, but do not cut into it, for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.” [Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Awsat (2274)]

The Prophet INSTRUCTED. That makes it sunnah. See, a minute clip to the clitoris will not reduce sexual pleasure, at least, not much. The right of a married girl to sexual pleasure is not taken away at all. Also, in our community, this practice is recommended strongly, but is not mandatory- just the same way as keeping a beard and wearing a topi. I understand your point of view. THis is mine.
This is from a jamia book ? Please provide some authentic source.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#145

Unread post by wise_guy » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:31 am

I guess this thread has been dragging on for too long. There are far more pressing issues that need to be highlighted.

Ozdundee
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Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#146

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:31 am

.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#147

Unread post by SBM » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:01 am

wise_guy wrote:I guess this thread has been dragging on for too long. There are far more pressing issues that need to be highlighted.
What can be far more pressing issues then the arrest and trials of the Kothari Aaamils and there trained slaves.
Are you getting nervous that your Masters may be facing more trouble all over the world.

WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#148

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:51 pm

wise_guy wrote:I guess this thread has been dragging on for too long. There are far more pressing issues that need to be highlighted.
The only pressing issue is that they should be put behind bars. The so called civilized are brutals. Reminds me of conrad's novel 'heart of darkness'. These brutals have same story.

yuzarsif
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:40 am

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#149

Unread post by yuzarsif » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:54 am

In todays Times of India Name of Dawoodi Bohra community is mentioned as the only sect practicing FGM
"Iraq jihadists order genital mutilation of all women"
http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/Arti ... 2014001038

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Police investigating FGM in community

#150

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:19 pm

yuzarsif wrote:In todays Times of India Name of Dawoodi Bohra community is mentioned as the only sect practicing FGM
"Iraq jihadists order genital mutilation of all women"

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/Arti ... 2014001038
No, ISIS Isn’t Ordering Female Genital Mutilation In Iraq

Given the brutality seen so far from the militant group known as the Islamic State in Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS), it’s easy to believe any act attributed to them must be true. But a United Nations officials’ statement on the group ordering female genital mutilation in one Iraqi city under their control seems to be less than accurate.

The story quickly began to go viral, racking up hundreds of shares on social media. Soon thereafter, however, journalists with contacts in Iraq began reporting that the story didn’t hold up. “My contacts in #Mosul have NOT heard that ‘Islamic State’ ordered FGM for all females in their city,” Jenan Moussa, a reporter with Al Anan TV tweet out. “Iraqi contacts say #Mosul story is fake,” echoed freelance writer Shaista Aziz, adding: “Iraqi contact on #FGM story: “ISIS are responsible for many horrors, this story is fake and plays to western audience emotions.’”

NPR’s Cairo bureau chief also claimed that the story was false, tweeting “#UN statement that #ISIS issued fatwa calling 4 FGM 4 girls is false residents of Mosul say including a doctor, journalist and tribal leader.” Not long after a version of a document in Arabic, bearing the black logo that ISIS has adopted, began circulating on Twitter. The document, those who shared it said, is a hoax and the basis for the United Nations’ claim.

As one analyst who looked at the document told the Independent, the issuing of such an edict would be a huge shift for ISIS, which has held territory in Syria for months without demanding that FGM take place. The practice tends to be based more on culture, Shiraz Maher, a Senior Fellow at King’s College London, said and “not something jihadists have ever really taken up” or “spoken about.” ThinkProgress reached out to the United Nations for comment on the discrepancy, but did not receive a response as of press time.

The traction that this story seemed to quickly gain is easy to understand given ISIS’ previous actions in the territory it controls. Along with reports of civilian executions, massacring Shiites, and enforcing a strict adherence to their interpretation of Islamic law, ISIS has even resurrected the practice of crucifixion in Syria. But for now it appears that female cutting is one atrocity that ISIS has yet to order.

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/07/ ... n-in-iraq/