PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

Lighten up a little and talk about movies, music, books and recipes and more... this forum provides the flip side to the intense and serious discussion taking place in other forums. No topic is off-limit here so long as it is within the accepted norms of decency and decorum.
salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#121

Unread post by salaar » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:33 pm

As earlier said my intentions in the beginning were not to spark any fight but on the other hand now i have a different opinion, you know when you have food poisoning and you feel like vomiting, it makes you more uncomfortable if you suppress that feeling, its always better to spit out the venom, this feeling is there between indians and pakistanis everywhere like it was on this forum when we started, in a previous thread which i cannot recall wiseguy did PM to me and in a taunting manner insulted and hurt my patriotism pasting some stupid propaganda article against pakistan, i had that vomitting feeling ever since and now after all this debate listening to all what he has to say and throwing what i felt about it iam feeling relaxed, the second thing which is my observation, Pakistanis knowing the state of affairs that we are facing often takes the beating from my indian brothers although they get hurt and feel the same way for their country as the indian feels, they most of the time try to avoid confrontation and arguments but i say alright things are not going ideally for us but does that diminish the love for our country, if pakistan has done something wrong with india then india has also committed sins against pakistan and you must come out of this trance that your country is being run by farishtas and label everything bad and evil on pakistan NO! it is mutual, and also that all Pakistanis are not same there are some like me who will stand eyes in eyes if you will talk anything rubbish about their country. Finally i would only say that i enjoyed this thread honestly and appreciate zinger and GM neutral stand on this. PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#122

Unread post by salaar » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:16 pm

Just adding a stanza of my favorite patriotic song which every Pakistani must have heard, this song was sung by Masood Rana and released on the 3rd of step 1965 during the war.

SATHIYO MUJAHIDO JAG UTHA HAE SARA WATAN
DIL MAE QURAN HONTO PAE TAKBEER HAE
JOSH ABBAS HAE AZM E SHABBIR HAE
HAR MUSALMAN HAIDER KI SHAMSHEER HAE
SAR PAE SAYA FIGAN DAST E KHYBER SHIKAN
SATHIYO MUJAHIDO JAAG UTHA HAE SARA WATAN

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#123

Unread post by wise_guy » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:17 pm

Hai liye hathiyaar dushman taak mein baitha udhar
Aur hum taiyyaar hain seena liye apna idhar
Khoon se khelenge holi gar vatan muskhil mein hai
Sarfaroshi ki tamanna ab hamaare dil mein hai

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#124

Unread post by salaar » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:40 pm

AE DUSHMAN E DEEN TU NE KIS QOUM KO LALKARA
LE HUM BHI HAE SAFF AARA
HAAN DEKH KE YE BAAZO, BAAZO HAE KE TALWAREIN
SEENAY HAE MUJAHID KE YA AAHNI DEEWARAIN
GIR JATI HAE QADMO MAE ISS TARHA SE DASTARAIN
HUM TUJH KO DIKHA DAENGAY SOU BAAR YE NAZARA
AE DUSHMAN E DEEN TU NE KIS QUOM KO LALKARA
JIS RAAH SE AYE GA OUS RAAH PE MAARENGAY
PANI BHI NA MAANGEGA YOUN NASHAA UTAARENGE
HUM MOUT KI WAADI SE YOUN TUJH KO GUZARENGAE
ISS QUOM SE LARNAY KI HIMMAT NA HO DOUBAARA
AE DUSHMAN E DEEN TU NE KIS QUOM KO LALKARA

sung by Shaukat Ali and released on 7th sept 1965 during war, these songs warm up our blood and reminds us of the great spirits shown by Pakistanis during those decisive days of war.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#125

Unread post by wise_guy » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:25 pm

http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/pakistan-a-failed-state/

Pakistan: A Failed State

In its 66-year history Pakistan has time and again proved to the world community that it is a failed state. Pakistan came into being in 1947, after the second world war was over. The British colonial power was waning; the sun was finally setting on the empire which was once renowned for the phrase that,”the sun never sets on the British Empire.”

After independence, the Indian subcontinent was bifurcated into Bharat (the official name of India) and Pakistan, literal meaning, the land of the pure. The formula employed by the British rulers was simple, all the Muslim majority areas became Pakistan and the Hindu majority regions Bharat. A bone of contention was left intentionally by the British, in the shape of the state of Kashmir. Kashmir, according to the formula mutually agreed upon should have been an integral part of Pakistan, but as its ruler was a Sikh, so Kashmir’s fate was left hanging dangerously in the balance. Pakistan and Bharat have fought three inconclusive wars to gain control of this disputed tract of land.

Pakistan came into being on the basis of the theory put forward by Sir Sayed Ahmad Khan. His Two Nation Theory, is that as Muslims and Hindus have diametrically opposed concepts of way of life, norms, customs, traditions, religions and rituals, so it is well neigh impossible for them to co-exist. It appeared a plausible reason for the conservative sections of the society with bigoted mind-sets, to divide India, but the intelligentsia, on both sides of the border, believe it to be a historic mistake.

Bharat from day one, abolished the estates and fiefdoms that formed part of the Indian Union and set out to write a democratic constitution for the new-born state. Pakistan, the failed state,on the other hand, because of the powerful feudal-military-mullah nexus was not able to write down a constitution till 1973. Though, a few efforts were made but the constitutions before 1973 could not come up to the expectations of the masses and were in time abrogated.

The University of California at Berkeley and Oxford University graduate, liberal, Z.A. Bhutto , is paradoxically responsible for making Pakistan — a secular state, as envisioned by Quaid-e-Azam– into the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, that it is today. He is also held to be the main culprit in dividing Pakistan because f the political tussle with Shiekh Mujib-ur-Rrehman. This tussle led to the war of independence of 1971, and East Pakistan became the independent state of Bangladesh. A very sorry chapter of this tragic saga was that 90,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to the Indian army; an ignominious defeat recorded in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Bhutto is also the famously referred to as the father of Pakistan’s nuclear program. He, with King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, Qadaffi of Libya, Sadaat of Eqypt, Edhi Amin of Uganda, Saddam Husein of Iraq formed the pan-Islamic block, that caused the crash of 79. These political maneuvers disturbed and angered America to the extent that he was ousted from power by a military coup, inspite of the fact that it was through the auspices of Bhutto’s administration, that President Nixon made his successful maiden visit to China. Ultimately, Bhutto was hanged for trumped up charge of aiding and abetting the murder of a political opponent. This chapter in Pakistan’s history is remembered as the judicial murder of the most popular leader of Pakistan.

With Zia-ul-Haq in power the darkest era in the history of Pakistan ensued. He had a megalomanic view of his preordained destiny of being Amir-u–Momineen– a return to Ottoman-style caliphate. With the help of the regressive, fundamentalist elements in the Pakistani society, of whom there was no dearth, he steered Pakistan of the 20th century towards the middle ages. The draconian Hudood Laws were a part and parcel of his regime. These laws introduced such pagan punishments as public floggings, cutting of hands and the mandatory requirement of having two male or four female witnesses in the crime of rape. A law heavily in favor of the rapist and the victim had to endure a lot of psychological torture in order to prove that the rape did take place and it was not a consensual sexual act; a charge that no victim could possibly prove, because of the requirement of eye-witnesses, which is an improbable impossibility. It was also during Zia’s rule that Afghan refugees, heroin and AK-47 became a universal phenomena in Pakistan. Zia and his coterie of corrupt generals ruled Pakistan for a decade. It was the decade of the first Afghan war and the birth of the much touted mujaheddin, the present day predecessors of the Taliban.

After his death in a the crash, for sometime Benazir Bhutto became the first elected female prime minister of an Islamic state. She was unceremoniously ousted from power by the then president under charges of corruption and Nawaz Sharif became the prime minister. The 90′s was a game of musical chairs, in the history of Pakistan. Bhutto became prime minister for a second term, when the president booted Sharif out of power. After two and a half years the tables were turned and like Bhutto before him, he became the prime minister for the second term. He was finally removed from office by the bloodless coup of Musharraf, again on the worn-out albeit true charge of corruption. The actual reason for his removal was that he, against the wishes of U.S. detonated the nuclear bomb in 1999. Pakistan, the failed state, has an arsenal of 90-110 nuclear warheads.

Now it was the term of Musharraf to rule and he did so for a decade keeping the tradition of his military predecessors alive. It was during his time in office that Pakistan became the front line ally of the Americans in the war on terror. Majority of political commentators view this unpopular move on his part as the war of error. The assassination of Bhutto is a dark blemish on his otherwise clean stint in power. Another major mistake that he committed during his rule was the declaration of emergency in 2007, which finally led to his ouster amidst popular protests.

Pakistan Peoples’ Party won the elections and formed a coalition government 2008. It was the first freely elected government in the history of this failed state that completed its constitutionally mandated 5-years term. In the elections held in 2013, Sharif became the prime minister for the third time. Now it would be interesting to see whether he can complete his 5-years term in office or is ousted in another military coup. This is very much on the cards, as his government is trying Musharraf, for high treason under article six of the constitution of Pakistan. It is a well-known fact that you can do anything you like in this failed state of Pakistan but never meddle with Pakistan army.

The feudal-military-mullah nexus has ruled the country for the majority of its history. This is the main reason that democracy , which is flourishing across the border, has not been able to establish its credentials here. Over 60 percent of Pakistan’s GDP goes towards meeting its defense needs, consequently the overall economy has suffers. Education in Pakistan has never been a priority with any government, so has been the case with social security and well-being of its citizens. Rampant inflation, unemployment, the daily deepening energy crises, unchecked corruption and the alarming deteriorating law and order situation have made Pakistan, a favorite recruiting ground plus a safe haven for terrorists from all over the world. It did not come as a surprise that Osama Bin Laden, was found living in Abbottabad Cantonment, KP, in the failed state of Pakistan.

By Iftikhar Tariq Khanzada

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#126

Unread post by salaar » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:59 am

Wise Guy the problem with you people is that instead of opening your eyes and making your judgments rationally you run after propaganda article for both sides which are available in abundance on different sites working on the directives of the respective sites bearing one side picture, anyway if that is the medicine for your ailment let me paste a few,


INDIA'S PROPAGANDA AGAINST PAKISTAN

Once again India has failed in its attempts to demonize Pakistan at international forums. A former officer in the Indian Home Ministry has recently disclosed that a member of the intelligence team had accused the government of “orchestrating” the terror attack on Parliament and the 26/11 militant siege of Mumbai.
R.V.S. Mani, who as Home Ministry under-secretary signed the affidavits submitted in court in the Ishrat Jahan encounter case, has said that Satish Verma, until recently a part of the CBI-SIT probe team, told him that both the terror attacks were set up “with the objective of strengthening the counterterror legislation (sic),” according to a report in the Indian media.
Mani has said that Verma “…narrated that the 13.12. 2001(attack on Parliament) was followed by POTA (Prevention of Terrorist Activities Act) and 26.11.2008 (terrorists’ siege of Mumbai) was followed by amendment to the UAPA (Unlawful Activities Prevention Act).”
The official has alleged Verma leveled the damaging charge while debunking IB’s inputs labeling the three killed with Ishrat in the June 2004 encounter as Lashkar terrorists. According to NHCR reports, 440 fake encounters were reported during 2002-2007 in India. In the fake Parliament attack case, Indians hanged Afzal Guru without providing any proof of his involvement. India also failed to prove that these attacks were planned or supported by Pakistan.
In Sarbajit Singh case too, India all along maintained that Singh was not a spy but after his unfortunate death, he was cremated with full state honor that clearly meant that India officially recognized Sarbjit Singh as Indian spy and took the responsibility of spreading terrorism in Pakistan.
Similarly, the bombing of Samjhauta Express in 2007 was first blamed on Pakistan but later it was found that Swami Aseemanand was the mastermind behind the train blast and Hindu militants were also involved. In 2008 Malegaon blasts, according to the investigators, Lt. Col. Prasad Shrikant Purohit, the military intelligence officer, was the main culprit. — Amna Khaloon, by e-mail

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#127

Unread post by salaar » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:18 am

Here's another one to satisfy your urge for accusation


EX-INDIAN ARMY CHIEF ADMITS SPONSORING TERRORISM IN BALOCHISTAN
India’s propaganda against PakistanISLAMABAD: Recently retired Indian Army chief General Vijay Kumar Singh has admitted that India sponsored bomb blasts in Pakistan and doled out money to the separatist elements in Balochistan, a disclosure downplayed by the Indian media so far.
Buying silence of Kashmiri leaders in Indian held Kashmir and phone tapping inside India were also part of the sensitive report.The ex-army chief reveals this in an inquiry report prepared by India’s DG military operations shining light on activities of an army unit raised after the Mumbai attacks.
VK Singh last month announced a political alliance with BJP leader Narendra Modi who was responsible for the massacre of the Muslims in Indian Gujarat.A portion of the explosive report indicting the former army chief of terrorist activities inside Pakistan was downplayed by the Indian media that largely used ‘neighboring country’ as a reference and instead highlighted its parts relating to his activities of phone-tapping inside India and buying silence of politicians in Indian-held Kashmir through loads of cash.
The dirty tricks sanctioned by the top Indian general were carried out by Tactical Support Division (TSD), an Indian army unit raised after Mumbai attacks on the directives of the Defence Minister and National Security Adviser Shev Shankar Menon in order to “perform a particular task to secure borders and internal situation in the country.”
TSD consisted of six officers, five JCOs and 30 men and operated out of an unmarked two-storeyed building within the Delhi Cantonment dubbed the ‘Butchery’, that was a refurbished slaughterhouse of colonial times, The India Today reported.
“The division was headed by Colonel Munishwar Nath Bakshi, a tall, flamboyant intelligence officer in his early 40s, better known by an unusual nickname, ‘Hunny’,” it said.As the inquiry body was set up to investigate, Col Bakshi, a confidante of Gen Singh, got himself admitted in a mental hospital pretending that he was under serious mental stress.
Former Army Chief VK Singh allegedly used TSD, a clandestine collective of handpicked military intelligence personnel, to settle scores on both sides of the contentious Line of Control (LOC) between Pakistan and India, reported The India Today, in its October 7 edition.
Between October and November 2011, India Today reported this month, TSD had claimed money “to try enrolling the secessionist chief in the province of a neighbouring country” and “Rs1.27 crore (Indian currency) to prevent transportation of weapons between neighbouring countries”. In early 2011, TSD claimed an unspecified amount for carrying out “eight low-intensity bomb blasts in a neighboring country”, according to this weekly Indian magazine.
The Hindustan Times earlier reported about the covert operation inside Pakistan by TSD and quoted its former official stating it was assigned to nab Hafiz Saeed of Jamaatud Dawah but didn’t mention TSD’s involvement in terrorist activities in Pakistan as has been revealed through inquiry board.
Since there was no explicit mention of Pakistan, it didn’t emerge on the radar of Pakistani media. The News spoke to different journalistic sources in India privy to details who confirmed that it was about Pakistan.
India’s Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia, who headed a Board of Officers’ inquiry under the direct orders of Gen Bikram Singh, current army chief, to review the functioning of the TSD submitted the report in March this year to the Indian government. While report is not being publicised, however, TSD was closed in December 2012.
An RTI request filed for the copy of this report was also denied, stating that sharing this information was prejudicial to national security and can harmrelations with the neighbouring countries.
“In so far as your request for supply of order regarding setting up of ‘TSD’ and enquiry etc, is concerned, it is regretted that the same cannot be supplied in terms of Section 8 (1) (a) of the RTI Act,” the ministry said in reply to an RTI query as quoted in an Indian paper.
“The section bars disclosure of information which would prejudicially affect the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security, strategic, scientific or economic interests of the state, relation with foreign state or lead to incitement of an offence,” it further stated.
The inquiry report on TSD started leaking after former army chief’s disclosure in a TV interview that the army had “transferred funds to all ministers in Jammu and Kashmir since 1947”. His comments triggered a firestorm of indignant counter-allegations all the way from Delhi to Srinagar. The payouts, he insisted, were not “bribes” or for “political purpose”, but part of the larger initiative to promote stability in the insurgency-ridden state.

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#128

Unread post by salaar » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:35 am

Another one wiseguy i can keep on posting them unendingly if you want

Indian RAW-sponsored terrorism in Pakistan

by: Dr Iqtidar Cheema

On 9th June, I had to attend a briefing session and community resilience event of Counter terrorism Unit of British West Midlands police. On the night of 8th June, I prepared well for the coming day’s deliberations without knowing that the country of my origin (Pakistan) was under attack. Next morning, I reached the Police Training centre to attend the event. The news of the terrorist attacks on Karachi Airport shocked me to the core the moment I entered the Lord Knight suite (venue of the event). The event was focused on British counter terrorism strategy as UK has also a substantial threat level of terrorism. However, the Karachi incident remained topic for discussion during deliberations. The delegates including Counter terrorism security advisors and senior police officials condemned this terrorist attack.

The recovery of Indian manufactured weapons from the site of the attack clearly indicates that the real problem is India which is manipulating the crisis in Pakistan. As identified by SH S Soharwordi in one of his articles, ‘Pakistan Army has numerous proves and witnesses that RAW agents were financing and supplying weapons to the Pakistani Taliban’. The attack also reminded me of the April, 2014 statement of Indian Prime Minister Modi in which he talked about conducting operation on Pakistani territory. Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) is now under direct control of Modi. Chief of the RAW is designated Secretary in the Modi’s Cabinet Secretariat which is a part of the Indian Prime Minister's Office (PMO). RAW has expanded its budget to Indian Rs. 1500 crore, alternately estimated at 145 million US dollars. As indicated in a report by Federation of American scientists ‘as many as 35,000 RAW agents has entered in Pakistan, with 12,000 working in Sindh, 10,000 in Punjab, 8,000 in KPK and 5000 in Balochistan’.

The war on terror has concreted the way for RAW to conduct clandestine operations. These stealthy terrorist activities in Pakistan are being conducted in conjunction with Afghanistan’s Intelligence agency RAAM (Riyast-i-Amoor-o-Amanat-i-Milliyah) and Israeli Mossad. RAW is using Afghan soil for carrying out massive terrorist activities against Pakistan. Daily Dawn has also previously reported that the three arrested militants of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan namely Khurram Ishtiaq, Ghulam Mustafa and Shamim have disclosed that RAW has been funding suicide bomb attacks in Pakistan and that the Indian intelligence agency has channelled Rs680 million through its links with the Afghan secret agency, RAAM.

Webster Griffin Tarpley , an American correspondent in a TV interview while responding to a question said; “the Research and Analysis Wing of Indian intelligence, they are up in Afghanistan, recruiting crazies from there to bring them down and help them to engage in terrorism inside Pakistan. So the Indians have this real dirty aspect’.

RAW and RAAM supports insurgent groups in Balochistan. Pak-Afghan Zahidan border has been used for destabilisation of Balochistan. Shahgarh-Kishangarh Indo-Pak border is also under use to supply arms to terrorists in Karachi and Balochistan. There is a strong suspicion that the unrest in Balochistan and FATA region has something to do with the RAW’s presence in Afghanistan and the number of Indian consulates that are operating close to the Pakistani border. In this connection, one cannot ignore the observations made by renowned scholar Christine Fair of Rand Cooperation who said that “having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan, I can assure you they are not issuing visas as the main activity. Moreover, India has run operations from its mission in Mazar (through which it supported the Northern Alliance) and is doing so from the other consulates it has reopened in Jalalabad and Kandahar along the border. Indian officials have told me privately that they are pumping money into Balochistan.’

While deceitfully accusing Pakistan of terrorism, RAW has been indulging in terrorism in Pakistan since at a massive scale. Dozens of RAW agents killed and arrested in Swat, FATA and Punjab in recent times. The confiscation of Indian origin explosives, ammunition clearly indicates RAW’s involvement in concealed operations. Even USA has advised India to slender Indian consulates in Jalalabad, Mazar-e-Sharif and Kandahar infamous for RAW’s clandestine activities against Pakistan.

On July 16, 2009; Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani met his Indian counterpart, Manmohan Singh in the Egyptian city of Sharm-el-Sheikh on the side-lines of the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) summit. The meeting concluded with the issuance of a joint statement in which both countries agreed to de-link action on terrorism. A reference to Indian involvement in Balochistan in the joint statement was also criticised in India. The then opposition and present Ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), made such hue and cry that Manmohan Singh was forced to backtrack from the commitment made in Sharm-el-Sheikh.

RAW has also aimed to promote sectarian violence in Pakistan. It has fuelled the fire of sectarianism by killing religious leaders of one group and pointing it towards the other sectarian group. The recent Taftan incident are the latest example of such activities in which 23 people have been killed and a number injured in a gun and bomb attack on Shia pilgrims in Balochistan.

RAW has also been criticised in Indian policy debates for its poor attention to domestic affairs to safeguard India’s security and territorial integrity. There is no doubt that RAW has had limited success in dealing with separatist movements in Manipur and Tripura in the northeast, Tamil Nadu in the south and Punjab and Kashmir in the northwestern part of the India. RAW obviously feel embarrassed that ISI has surpassed it in terms performance. Feeling outstripped and bested, RAW’s is intriguing against ISI.

The notorious RAW under Modi Government is trying to achieve the policy goals set by Chanakya (Kautilya) centuries ago in his book Arth Shastar. Knowing that engagement of Indian Armed forces in conventional warfare with Pakistan is no more a viable option; RAW has adopted indirect, unconventional warfare against Pakistan.

Note: The views expressed in this article are solely of the author and do not represent ARY policies or opinion.

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#129

Unread post by salaar » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:57 am

And another one
THE GUJARAT RIOTS : NEW INDIA'S BLOOD RITES by Pankaj Mishra
n February 2002 the western Indian state of Gujarat, governed by the Hindu nationalist chief minister Narendra Modi, witnessed one of the country's biggest pogroms. Responding to reports that Muslims had set fire to a train carriage, killing 58 Hindu pilgrims inside, mobs rampaged across the state. The riots flared up again on 15 March – 10 years ago on Wednesday – and killing, raping and looting continued until mid-June. More than 2,000 Muslims were murdered, and tens of thousands rendered homeless in carefully planned and coordinated attacks of unprecedented savagery.

The killers may have been in touch with police and politicians. According to the 2011 Amicus report, two cabinet ministers even sat in police control rooms. A senior police officer and minister, murdered in 2003, claimed that Modi explicitly instructed civil servants and police not to stand in the killers' way. Of course, Modi has always denied involvement and condemned the riots.

The pogrom was extensively televised by India's innumerable – and then much less complacent – TV channels. Many middle-class Indians were shocked to hear how even the very young had not been spared – the slayers of Muslims were seen smashing the heads of children against rocks. There was some unease even within Modi's parent outfit, the RSS – whose most revered chief, Guru Golwalkar, wrote in a 1939 book that Nazi Germany had manifested "race pride at its highest" by purging itself of the "Semitic races".

Since then Indian activists have doggedly pursued Modi through the courts and in the media. In a sting carried out in 2007 by the weekly magazine Tehelka, politicians, businessmen, officials and policemen were caught on tape, delightedly recalling how they murdered and raped Muslims with the full imprimatur of their superiors.

No matter: Modi walks out of hostile interviews and ignores rulings from the country's courts: last month his government was issued a contempt notice for failing to compensate 56 people whose shops were destroyed in the riots. He can describe the relief camps that house thousands of dispossessed Muslims as "child-breeding centres". The impunity derives from the fact that Modi, though still denied a visa to the US, remains the unchallenged leader of a big-business-friendly state which his American PR firm, Apco – that also represents brutal dictators such as Kazakhstan's Nursultan Nazarbayev – has successfully rebranded as "Vibrant Gujarat".

Hailed by India's leading industrialists, including Ratan Tata and Mukesh Ambani, as "dynamic" and "visionary", and buoyed by landslide victories in state elections, Modi now projects himself as the face of a democratic, economically vigorous and pro-west New India. He has been able to persuade many of his Gujarati compatriots of a liberal-leftist conspiracy against their plucky, entrepreneurial selves. And there are many in the Indian media – bigger, more affluent and more gung-ho since 2002 – ready to complement Apco's exertions by making the 2002 pogrom seem part of a happily superseded history.

One recent commentator even tried to dismiss it as an anachronism from India's apparently dark pre-1991 "socialist" past, claiming that it "represented an autarkic economy riot in the era of globalisation". Apparently, the beneficiaries of Brave New India, educated by an alert media and motivated by economic gain, have a "declining tolerance for violence" – and even someone as fanatical as Modi realises that news of wholesale murder of Muslims, quickly disseminated in the age of globalisation, is bad for business.

A recent profile of Modi in Caravan, India's best English-language magazine, eviscerates this self-flattering image of a democratic and enlightened entrepreneurial class – one that has no time for the Muslim-scalping that people in benightedly socialist India used to get up to. Wholly untouched by remorse, Modi comes across in a carefully researched article by the journalist Vinod Jose as a classic authoritarian populist, bending others to his will rather than bowing to progressive opinion. Jose describes how Modi demanded an abject apology from the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) (CII), India's most prestigious and important business association, which had criticised the Gujarat chief minister over the killings in his state. Faced with a revolt from businessmen from wealthy Gujarat, the CII buckled; it was soon helping to arrange Modi's first meeting with foreign investors. It was only a matter of time before Tata struck up a beautiful relationship with Modi.

In any case, the non-recurrence of 2002-style killings in India provides little reason to credit its elites with heightened tolerance and compassion. Left behind by economic growth, Muslims are more demoralised and depressed than ever; and the country's extreme inequalities, often enforced with violence, express themselves in new forms, ranging from suicides by tens of thousands of farmers, to militant insurgencies. Old-style rioting has been replaced by state terrorism, often cheer-led by the elites. (In 2007 India ranked just behind Iraq in annual incidents of "terrorist" violence.) Under Modi's rule, Gujarat has seen a steep rise in extrajudicial killings.

Economic globalisation, far from spurring moral and spiritual growth among its beneficiaries, has helped to create new constituencies – among haves as well as have-nots – for xenophobia and Modi-style authoritarian populism. Riot Politics, an excellent new book based on close ethnographic study of riot-affected areas in Gujarat by the Dutch scholar Ward Berenschot, shows how it was the state's integration into the global economy, and resulting extreme inequalities, that made poor areas of the state so exposed to anti-Muslim violence. Indeed, the 2002 killings may have been an early example of what the social anthropologist Arjun Appadurai calls "a vast worldwide Malthusian correction, which works through the idioms of minoritisation and ethnicisation but is functionally geared to preparing the world for the winners of globalisation, minus the inconvenient noise of its losers".

Like Modi, the strongmen who supervise these bloody purges of economically depressed and unproductive people are often elected by landslide majorities, and tend to be audacious free-marketeers rather than hopeless socialists. The start of the crony-capitalist regimes of Thaksin in Thailand and Putin in Chechnya coincided with vicious assaults on ethnic minorities. Ten years later, the 2002 anti-Muslim pogrom too seems to have been a necessary blood rite – anointing not just Vibrant Gujarat but also the New India.

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#130

Unread post by salaar » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:00 am

If your condition is not improving let me know i will post a few hundred more :roll:

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#131

Unread post by JC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:10 am

Here is a test for Salar and Wise Guy .............

Can you do some soul-searching and other searches and come up with 'what is COMMOM in India and Pakistan?' 'What do general public in both countries think and believe?' 'what are real problems or issues in both the countries?' ........... 'How can we live better?' .............. 'How have we been cheated by our leaders?' ......... 'How our trust has been broken?' ..........

I personally believe Partition was wrong, I wish India and Pakistan could be like former East Germany and West Germany ............. but my wish may not come true ..........

Let bygones be bygones, do not come under 'propaganda' ............. let Pakistan be Pakistan and India be India ............

Pakistan Zindabad AND Jai Hind ......................... :)

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#132

Unread post by wise_guy » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:34 am

ok, fine, no more of that stuff from me. I know this is not going to end. I am sorry.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#133

Unread post by JC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:00 pm

Thanks Wise Guy ..........

Bro Salar, come on, let go, bury the hatchet .............

Lets rise above geographical and political divide, even rise above religious divide, lets give humanity a chance ...........

ghulam muhammed
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#134

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:54 pm

Although Pakistan is also involved in terror activities inside India but at the same time India cannot be given a clean chit. The articles produced by salaar does have some truth in it as I have also studied government activities in both the countries and have to conclude that both are to be equally blamed. During the last NDA rule, Advani was famous for his stereotyped rants "Yeh padosi mulk ka kaam hai", he blamed everything on Pakistan and would have probably blamed it even for his headaches and lose motions ! The parliament attack was definitely stage managed as otherwise how on earth not even a single political leader was shot at. In fact, there were NO prominent politicians present in Parliament when the attack took place, the likes of Advani, Sonia Gandhi etc were all missing. Such a serious attack requires meticulous planning and inside information so how is it possible that the alleged terrorists were not aware of the simple fact that on the day of attack Parliament would not be in session. The most laughable part was that the alleged terrorists who were shot dead by security forces were shown with dryfruits in their bags just to strengthen the claims of they being Kashmiri militants. Would terrorists carry kilos of dryfruits during such a serious attack ?

Hence, my point is that we as responsible citizens of the respective countries should not be fooled by politicians who rake up such issues in order to divert public mind from the burning problems faced by both the countries. The reason that politicians from both countries are successful in their nefarious designs is because they are able to play with communal passions as it becomes more Hindu/Muslim then India/Pakistan. Actually the main culprit are the Britishers who have successfully sowed the seeds of hatred but never ever do we see anyone blaming them.

salaar
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#135

Unread post by salaar » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:14 pm

I totally agree with you JC and would like to add something more,
Partition of India happened because although hindus and muslims were living together but they were ruled by the britishers and when time for liberation approached they lost confidence in each other, doubts and distrust created a big rift between them, maybe both had no bad intentions for the other but they were both trying to safeguard their interests and in that process hurting sentiments of the other side, it is just like two brothers living together with their father comfortably but when their father dies differences erupts, muslims living in india are having good time in general and even if some communal riots occur they ignore it but had Pakistan not been created iam sure some muslim leaders would everytime do hue and cry for every little thing blaming people who stood against partition, i think it was a logical conclusion to the problem.
Talking about the present situation as i have always said both the countries are busy in the blame game and dirty terrorism against each other and honestly common masses suffer, lets be honest a nishan e haider holder of pakistan is missed by his family as dearly as param vir chakra recipient is missed by his family in india, therefore i and all sensible people believe that war is no solution for our problems wether its 1948, 1965, 1971, siachin or kargil we cannot achieve anything out of it, even if you suppress the other side temporarily but repercussions are bound to come.
My best advise summing up the debate respect others and respect will come back to you, taunting and insults create grudges and hate which finally ends up in war between nations,
Wiseguy i love you, enjoyed the conversation and no hard feeling. P A K I S T A N Z I N D A B A D

wise_guy
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#136

Unread post by wise_guy » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:46 pm

Also according to me and what I think is that vested interests in the west don't want peace between India n Pakistan... both of who spend a significant % of their gdp on defense most of which is imported. This is easily billions of dollars every year... Whereas, abject poverty plagues both countries, weapons manufacturing companies in the west laugh all the way to the bank.... I hope and pray that those companies go bankrupt some day and their owners, agents etc be inflicted with rarest of rare diseases....

zinger
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#137

Unread post by zinger » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:46 am

JC wrote:Here is a test for Salar and Wise Guy .............

Can you do some soul-searching and other searches and come up with 'what is COMMOM in India and Pakistan?' 'What do general public in both countries think and believe?' 'what are real problems or issues in both the countries?' ........... 'How can we live better?' .............. 'How have we been cheated by our leaders?' ......... 'How our trust has been broken?' ..........

I personally believe Partition was wrong, I wish India and Pakistan could be like former East Germany and West Germany ............. but my wish may not come true ..........

Let bygones be bygones, do not come under 'propaganda' ............. let Pakistan be Pakistan and India be India ............

Pakistan Zindabad AND Jai Hind ......................... :)
Pakistan Zindabad. Jai Hind :D :D :D

zinger
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#138

Unread post by zinger » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:52 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:Although Pakistan is also involved in terror activities inside India but at the same time India cannot be given a clean chit. The articles produced by salaar does have some truth in it as I have also studied government activities in both the countries and have to conclude that both are to be equally blamed. During the last NDA rule, Advani was famous for his stereotyped rants "Yeh padosi mulk ka kaam hai", he blamed everything on Pakistan and would have probably blamed it even for his headaches and lose motions ! The parliament attack was definitely stage managed as otherwise how on earth not even a single political leader was shot at. In fact, there were NO prominent politicians present in Parliament when the attack took place, the likes of Advani, Sonia Gandhi etc were all missing. Such a serious attack requires meticulous planning and inside information so how is it possible that the alleged terrorists were not aware of the simple fact that on the day of attack Parliament would not be in session. The most laughable part was that the alleged terrorists who were shot dead by security forces were shown with dryfruits in their bags just to strengthen the claims of they being Kashmiri militants. Would terrorists carry kilos of dryfruits during such a serious attack ?

Hence, my point is that we as responsible citizens of the respective countries should not be fooled by politicians who rake up such issues in order to divert public mind from the burning problems faced by both the countries. The reason that politicians from both countries are successful in their nefarious designs is because they are able to play with communal passions as it becomes more Hindu/Muslim then India/Pakistan. Actually the main culprit are the Britishers who have successfully sowed the seeds of hatred but never ever do we see anyone blaming them.

oh come on GM bhai, dont put your own spin now :lol:

there were no politicans in the parliament becuase it was not in session.

the dates when the parliament is in session is normally announced in private only, not beforehand.

and ofcourse they were carrying dry fruits. its easy to carry, not easily perishable and will instant boosts of energy. you certainly didnt expect them to carry sandwiches and biryani my friend :lol:

and it was not kilos, but a few bags at best. an army cannot march on an empty stomach can it :lol:

salaar
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#139

Unread post by salaar » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:03 am

Zinger Bhai if a group of terrorist are so competent that they were able to plan an attack on Indian assemblies, pass all weapons through right outside the gate of parliament and do you expect that they were unaware of the right time for the next session, come on zinger at this age of high-tech diplomacy do you actually think it would be difficult for secret services to get aware of the time. Sometimes the propaganda of our respective govt are perfect like a good movie but sometimes they produce a flop one.

zinger
Posts: 1970
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#140

Unread post by zinger » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:14 am

salaar wrote:Zinger Bhai if a group of terrorist are so competent that they were able to plan an attack on Indian assemblies, pass all weapons through right outside the gate of parliament and do you expect that they were unaware of the right time for the next session, come on zinger at this age of high-tech diplomacy do you actually think it would be difficult for secret services to get aware of the time. Sometimes the propaganda of our respective govt are perfect like a good movie but sometimes they produce a flop one.
maybe you forgot how they entered,

They came in ambasaddors which had the right stickers and passes.

they had stolen these, along with the roof lights, the beacons.

also, they didnt walk through the gates, they zoomed past it. if you remember brother, the first person to be shot was a woman constable at the gate. they abondoned the car and made their way inside then.

mind you, im not drawing this debate further, im merely responding to Gm bhais post

SBM
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#141

Unread post by SBM » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:32 pm


ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#142

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:06 pm

zinger wrote:the dates when the parliament is in session is normally announced in private only, not beforehand.
This is news for me ! Could you substantiate your claim by giving some references.
zinger wrote:and ofcourse they were carrying dry fruits. its easy to carry, not easily perishable and will instant boosts of energy. you certainly didnt expect them to carry sandwiches and biryani my friend
Why would terrorists carry dryfruits or any other foodstuff for that matter ? Were they planning a siege ? It was quite clear that all they wanted was to gun down some politicians specifically the Hindutwa leaders (as per the biased media reports).
zinger wrote:there were no politicans in the parliament becuase it was not in session.
If the terrorists knew that parliament was not in session and that they wouldn't find any politicians then why did they attack the parliament at all ? Did they go for a stroll inside ?

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#143

Unread post by wise_guy » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:58 pm

please start a new thread called Parliament attack :P :P :P

salaar
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Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#144

Unread post by salaar » Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:52 pm

Whenever terrorist attack any installation or target they plan and chalk out their strategy, they are after their targets but their own lives are at a high stake and nobody would ever throw his life for nothing, how the terrorists entered or what they were carrying is secondary but are you trying to tell me that they came all the way from pakistan to inflict few holes in the assembly building or damage its structure, there is no rationale in that, before attack they always conduct a recce and if in this case there was no parliament session going on they could have just delayed their attack for a day or two, but this attack was obviously a drama staged for the blame game and by the way every little details are worked upon before exhibiting such a drama like coming in ambassadors with stickers, you see they could get more ambassadors next day if they were real terrorist but the important thing should be to hit few vips and not empty buildings which was never achieved, iam saying this with confidence because we are victims of terrorism in pakistan and have closely observed many such attacks on important government and army buildings but everytime the attackers come with a precise plan if they are real terrorist, whether they succeed or not but they dont just come to fire on empty buildings therefore my friend iam not buying this idea.

salaar
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Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#145

Unread post by salaar » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:02 pm

by the way if i was there the first thing i would do is to find a kiosk of tea or pan and discuss with the owner inconvenience caused by the parliamentarian movement to ordinary people and his business and that chai wala or pan wala would himself reveal "dekho na bhaiya abb ye loog kal subha phir 10 bajay jama hongay aur karobar ki waat lag jae gi" hows the idea :D

ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#146

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:07 pm

Mumbai attacks: what is the truth?

An undersecretary in India’s Central Bureau of Investigation, Satish Verma, has recently accused his own government of orchestrating the attack on the Indian parliament, as well as the 2008 Mumbai attack. His statement, which has come almost four years after the attack in Mumbai, has caused ripples in Pakistan, a country where many already believe that Osama bin Laden was not killed in the American raid and that the US and the Jewish lobby were behind the 9/11 episode.

Statements like the one given by the former Indian government official propel people to jump to conclusions. In this blame game being played from both sides, the only loser is justice and truth. Both governments allow heaps of evidence to remain buried under the heavy load of their national security and national interests. The result is deepening hostility among the people across the divide and complacent governments that continue to execute ‘cover-ups’.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/579244/mumb ... the-truth/


salaar
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#148

Unread post by salaar » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:26 pm

Only yesterday I read somewhere that the recent attacks on sialkot sector by the Indian army is being done on the request of nawaz Sharif to narindar modi to divert attention and relieve political presurre on his govt, now these people can go to any extent to save their throne.

dawedaar
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#149

Unread post by dawedaar » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:45 pm

As long as we hold on to the notion of Hindu-Muslim differences and conflicts, the vested interests will keep taking advantage of the divide and rule over the people... The day people on both sides realize that people are humans first, and then hindu or muslim will be the day of independece...

ghulam muhammed
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Re: PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#150

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:45 pm

Average Pakistani doesn't like India: Survey

A Washington-based Pew Research Centre survey has revealed rising concern among Pakistanis about a threat to their country from India.

A survey of 1,203 Pakistani adults between April 15 and May 7, showed 51 per cent believed India was the biggest threat to their country, up from 38 per cent in 2013.

A threat perception from the Taliban and Al Qaida in Pakistan seem to have come down. One in four named the Taliban, as against one in three in 2013. Only two per cent (four per cent in 2013) regarded Al Qaida as a threat to the nation’s security.

On the whole, while most Pakistanis remain unhappy with the country’s direction, the public mood is more positive than it has been in recent years. The percentage saying the economy is in good shape has more than doubled since last year, rising from 17 per cent to 37 per cent. And, 36 per cent expect the economy to improve in the next 12 months.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/avera ... 140828.htm