Money Money Money

[Hakimi]

I am dawoodi bohra and I am very proud of my ethics,culture,my forefathers and my religion, I am also proud of how syedna muhammed burhanuddin (tus) have managed dawat so far....but one thing upsets me these days, and this upsetting thing is "greed for money"

now come on, none can deny there is clear greed of money running up to down in every town,city,country.

I know money is important, even for spiritual leader to manage his affairs with outside world, i dont deny it, but I think this greed is now getting stretched much far.

mola Muhammed burhanuddin(tus) is not well these day, but I think now sayeedi mola mufaddal shud take some strict action not just by words but by clear action Inshallah o taalaa.

I would like to read some thoughts from none but dawoodi bohras.

[jamanpasand]

When you guys eat and enjoy jaman for 30 days in Ramzan and many more during rest of the year, further guaranteed place in jannat. What else you want. Think of it as Black Friday or a Boxing Day. Happy Eid.

[godfearer]

3 covers, 6 family memebrs ,one limited income source, and miminum 52 rs ask this time
and so so many other things always running back

52 * 18 = 936 is minimum amount which we hv to pay on the day of eid ul fitr,, zanab salaam is apart
I should not object but remark that zanab said had gone over from my head and i belive that it is definately untrue....

zanab's some lines from long bayaan " Silat Ul Imam- Imam no Haq chhe ene barabar si ada karvu jove. je shaqs ada nay kare ena chehra taraf qayamat na din KHUDA nazar nay kare ".

[godfearer]

I am dawoodi bohra and I am very proud of my ethics,culture,my forefathers and my religion, I am also proud of how syedna muhammed burhanuddin (tus) have managed dawat so far....but one thing upsets me these days, and this upsetting thing is "greed for money"

now come on, none can deny there is clear greed of money running up to down in every town,city,country.

I know money is important, even for spiritual leader to manage his affairs with outside world, i dont deny it, but I think this greed is now getting stretched much far.

mola Muhammed burhanuddin(tus) is not well these day, but I think now sayeedi mola mufaddal shud take some strict action not just by words but by clear action Inshallah o taalaa.

I would like to read some thoughts from none but dawoodi bohras.

Sab paise ka khel hai mere Bhai.. samunder mai jab 5555 crocodile ho to 55555 machliya bhi kuch nahi kar sakti

[asad]

Silat Ul Imam- Imam no Haq chhe ene barabar si ada karvu jove. je shaqs ada nay kare ena chehra taraf qayamat na din KHUDA nazar nay kare

same lines were used by my aamil, i wonder if you are from my city or was it a common bayan every where. In my place even kids are told that its WAJIB for them to pay Silat Al Imam.

[godfearer]

Silat Ul Imam- Imam no Haq chhe ene barabar si ada karvu jove. je shaqs ada nay kare ena chehra taraf qayamat na din KHUDA nazar nay kare

same lines were used by my aamil, i wonder if you are from my city or was it a common bayan every where. In my place even kids are told that its WAJIB for them to pay Silat Al Imam.

No bhai. i am from small town. I think that it is common bayaan every where. even here last year might be this year also kids hv ask to pay Wajebaat.. YA ALLAH YA ALLAH YA ALLAH

[porus]

From a previous post of mine, slightly edited:

Can you educate me on concept of Silatul Imam, what I have read or learnt from various sources is that, Silatul Imam is a right (Haq) of Imam-in-Hiding.

This is an interesting question. A sabak-going abde should be able to answer but I think we will wait forever for that for 2 reasons:

1. An intelligent abde will know but will not say anything because of his oath of secrecy.
2. An un-intelligent abde, like Insecticide, will not know even if he/she hears it hundred times in sabak.

I do not believe that there is anything in the Quran for zakat ul-fitra or silat ul-imam.

However, it has been reliably reported, in connection with 87:14 and 87:15, that Prophet used to offer sadaqa before the end of Ramadan. This has been called zakat al-fitr. Muslims believe that their prayers, especially in the month of Ramadan, will be accepted because this sadaqa 'purifies' their wealth and intentions. This zakat is in addition to that calculated (2.5% and other estimates). Because Prophet offered it in relation to Quran, it is considered fard.

Silat ul-Imam is traced to a saying of Imam Baqir. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that "if a whole year passes and a portion of the wealth of a person does not reach him (لم يصلنا, 'lam yasalna'), then Allah will not look at him on the Day of Judgement."

From the verb 'yasalna' is derived the noun 'sila' (صلة) which means a 'gift' or 'connection'. Combining these two meanings may mean that it is the gift to Imam emphasizing the giver's religious connection to the Imam.

For Bohras, the amount of both these taxes are specified by the Dai and varies yearly.

These taxes must be paid to the Dai who, according to Bohra beliefs, is the only one authorized by Allah to accept all your zakaat, sadaqaat and any other religious offerings.

Can an abde throw more light on this issue?

[JC]

Hakimi Sahib,

Hikmat ke baat Karoo ........ Its ALL MONEY MONEY MONEY and ONLY MONEY, there is absolutely nothing else. No Religion, No Morals, No Ethics, No Well-being, no, nothing. Only MONEY and lust for POWER and POWER .....

Is Hamam may sub nangay hain ............

[ynajmee]

When it comes to money, our leaders conveniently forget about the ethical and moral perspective of our so-called "deen".

[Dbc1]

" khuda qiyamat na din nazar nahi kare" same bayaan..

the bayans are scripted..

has anyone heard about the new scheme started by 53rd maula.. galla system.. initiates from cairo. egypt.
but now every mumin household will be given a galla in which the coins or anther savongs must be contributes towards karzan hassanah..

notes toh notes chillar bhi???

..

[think]

here in the southern u.s. it is announced"mumineen ane ehna farzando moula ane ali qauid moula ne farkhir rakam araz kare" I want to know if this was also carried out in rasulillah's time that Rasullillah asked his followers and even children to make sure you give big eidi to him in the form of money .
How convenient. the Dai and his mansoos is hopefully in india but eidi is collected for them from all the little towns and villages of india, pakistan, america ,england, australia etc. and i thought eidi came from the heart what ever one could afford to give,but it seems the eidi for our religious leader and his heir is collected by force and we are asked to give as large a sum as possible.

[think]

again the elder are supposed to give eidi to the young ones but in our deen the elder and most respected is asking through his chamchas to give big eidi to him. if it is money they want then eidi and salam means the same.

[ghulam muhammed]

Almost all and sundry agree that the present day dawat is ONLY about money but it is surprising and very sad that many bohras dont go to the root cause or for that matter the era and the way it all STARTED. It is well documented that daiship became a post for making money from the time of 51st dai but bohras do not want to admit it. This attitude of constant denial is never going to help in changing the system.

The Ziafats,Mafsusiyats,Hadiyats and selling titles for a fortune and the harrasment at the time of burial which is not allowed until and unless the previous dues are cleared and also charging amounts running into thousands and lakhs for burial place which is given FREE by government, the crores demanded just to give a Masjid its religious sanctity....... the list is endless. It is proved a number of times that these unislamic tax levies were NEVER imposed by the earlier dais. Even the concept of ruku chithi was alien till 51st dai took over the reigns. So why cant the ones who are uncomfortable with this money making racket ever admit that it is a malaise which is spread recently ?

It all zeroes down to a belief that the dai cannot be questioned ! There are hundreds of examples wherein even Nabi (s.a.w.) was questioned and for which he ALWAYS gave an appropriate and convincing answer so why is questioning the dai considered inappropriate ?

It is a different matter that the 52nd dai is very sick and helpless as he is being harrassed and paraded around by his greedy sons which in all likelihood is against his wishes hence there is the larger element of SYMPATHY amongst bohras which is working in his favour but cant they sit back and think that this dawat was converted into a huge business empire by none other then the dai himself, so why absolve him of the ills in community ? Due credit is always given to the dai whenever there is something positive even if he has little or no contribution in it so why isnt the blame passed on to him in the same manner ? If he wants accolades then he should also be ready to face brickbats. If a war is won then credit is given to the army chief but if the war is lost then it is the same chief who has to face criticism. Why is this principle not applied when it comes to daawat ?

[seeker110]

All I wish in a Dai is strong mind and a warm heart. What I got is a cold heart and immoral mind.

[anajmi]

Referring to porus' post above, consider the difference between the prophet (saw) and the bohra Imams. The prophet (saw) gave sadaqa and the bohra Imams demand gifts for themselves.

[yusuf78]

To stop these people asking more money ,,,what we all members in forums should do ?,,,,,,

These people will ask money , money and money until we start to take less and few services from them,, like shifaah,, jiyaarat, razaa, .....etc.

We have to stop also fearing that we are reformist bohra and we want this community to clean. up... from chamchas and corrupt priests...

Theses people beame money mad dogs because some rich people started to pay more money and they( money collector people) start to poise and begin competition between each individual...

we have to start now sending emails to everyone that not to pay any more money asked by chamchas and zaadas,,

we all have to start sms , and use technologies to spread in community ... ...

this is my message to all people here... for sake of good and poor people we should start from today to spread message ....

[godfearer]

To stop these people asking more money ,,,what we all members in forums should do ?,,,,,,

These people will ask money , money and money until we start to take less and few services from them,, like shifaah,, jiyaarat, razaa, .....etc.

We have to stop also fearing that we are reformist bohra and we want this community to clean. up... from chamchas and corrupt priests...

Theses people beame money mad dogs because some rich people started to pay more money and they( money collector people) start to poise and begin competition between each individual...

we have to start now sending emails to everyone that not to pay any more money asked by chamchas and zaadas,,

we all have to start sms , and use technologies to spread in community ... ...

this is my message to all people here... for sake of good and poor people we should start from today to spread message ....

koi fayda nahi bhai... Jiski zeb garam uske aage sau naram

[ghulam muhammed]

This happened some time back :-

A MESSAGE TO ALL BOHRAS FROM THE JAMAT OF SEATTLE, USA. EVEN CHILDREN ARE NOT SPARED IN THEIR NEFAROUS DESIGNS OF EXTORTING MONEY....... GREED HAS NO LIMITS :-


Like we have been doing every year, all Farzando can partake in the barakat of submitting wajebaat this year as well. Janab Moez bs will sit for farzando wajebaat bethak on Saturday (8/13) at 8:15 pm, right after Quran no Dor and Bayan. Recommended amount is $27 per child (cash).

Was Salaam,

Abde Syedna (TUS)
Shabbir Jamali

[exploitedpocket]

dear mustafabhai nalwalla.,

U seems like flag holder of bohras on this forum who are syedna well wishers. Please do an arzi to aqa maula to do a mojiza for saving the momineens from widespread exploitation, forced extortion and anti-daawat taxes.

I hope a mojiza / miracle from our maula is surely gonna help us.

[think]

"mumineen anme ehna farzando fakhir najwa araz kare" translation " mujhe tum log ziada se ziada eidi do"

[humanbeing]

Dear All

Eid Mubarak !

I agree with Hakimi, we shall take small and convenient efforts slow and steady to make the difference. We all come to this forum to cry and crib about how we are exploited etc etc.

Lot said on this forum can be true or false. We shud not blindly believe unless authenticated by self efforts and research.

Kothari agents keep denying restlessness, anger, frustration brewing up among masses. It’s not only the money they are crying for but even a sense of spiritual gratification is missing. Most of self respecting and sensible thinkers are now getting tired of melodramatic and self imposed “ehsaan and karam” raga all the time.

Before and after I got acquainted with this forum, I regularly and surprisingly came across rebel minded people in the community who have shared their own ways of getting around this Kothari Taxmen. Some by influence they wield or some determined with their principles.

A lot we discuss about how to change the system, actually we are part of this system and we are fueling the machinery, first our trust and faith and then our money. Only way out is first through heart and faith. Once we start disconnecting ourselves from practices that don’t agree to conscience in light of universally acceptable code of conduct and natural justice. Then we can begin to breathe free and start thinking of helping others.

Slowly and steady over last few years, I have been politely and persistently cutting down on my contributions to kothar and also able to convince my near dear ones of useless funding schemes. I have not taken a bull-in-china-shop approach to convince people to see through these glitzy fancy Kothari kingdoms.

Money salaam was my first approach. I encourage lot of friends & family to do salaam but without money. They liked the idea, and grudgingly Kothari agents can only taunt and whine while we smiled in their faces and enjoyed the disgust.

Sila fitra, najwa, Ikram and Qardan Hasana is also under discussion all the time, I observed many bohras did not stand to offer these funds and sheikhs with their golden and silver “thelaas” walked around with embarrassed look on their face yelling like a salesman, name of funds they are collecting for.

It’s amusing to hear zaroori elaans by aamil’s chamchas appealing to general public to offer shukr-najwa to presiding amil and hordes of people walking away to exit, while this elaans are going on.

I agree this small and latent rebellions will not dent this Kothari inc operations. But the idea is not to change the system but ourselves. There is no use abusing Kothari families we are just simple passing our responsibility of our conscience to their deeds. Which is not going to help us in this world or life after. Sky is falling everywhere in every country, religions and community.

[think]

what do you mean "passing the responsibility of our actions to their deeds"

[ozmujaheed]

This happened some time back :-

A MESSAGE TO ALL BOHRAS FROM THE JAMAT OF SEATTLE, USA. EVEN CHILDREN ARE NOT SPARED IN THEIR NEFAROUS DESIGNS OF EXTORTING MONEY....... GREED HAS NO LIMITS :-


Like we have been doing every year, all Farzando can partake in the barakat of submitting wajebaat this year as well. Janab Moez bs will sit for farzando wajebaat bethak on Saturday (8/13) at 8:15 pm, right after Quran no Dor and Bayan. Recommended amount is $27 per child (cash).

Was Salaam,

Abde Syedna (TUS)
Shabbir Jamali

Shame on Mufus and his child abuse strategy...at the small age he wants to indoctrinate the mney giving so that when the kids grow up they are used to giving money

There must be a limit and I awaite the time when abdes says enough is enough and revolt . May be the last Arab spring will be in bohras

[Safiuddin]

I think human being has it right. Stop doing salaam with money.
Stop going to every single function. Just stop paying the money.
If they refuse you any services, are there no other cemeteries?
Are there no other venues for your parties?
Why not hold your own parties (I know - their spies go and tell on you.)
Well, if you behave like childish victims, then so will you be treated like one.

This year in Chicago the dushman and bully Salmaan Bhaisaab is presiding.
I was told that he is now picking out people in the audience by name, and asking them questions
He's telling people how to do maatam. All part of the control and total obedience plan.

Stay away and focus on your lives and families - and stay away from this hideous cult.

[Hakimi]

I think human being has it right. Stop doing salaam with money.
Stop going to every single function. Just stop paying the money.
If they refuse you any services, are there no other cemeteries?
Are there no other venues for your parties?
Why not hold your own parties (I know - their spies go and tell on you.)
Well, if you behave like childish victims, then so will you be treated like one.

This year in Chicago the dushman and bully Salmaan Bhaisaab is presiding.
I was told that he is now picking out people in the audience by name, and asking them questions
He's telling people how to do maatam. All part of the control and total obedience plan.

Stay away and focus on your lives and families - and stay away from this hideous cult.

which parties are u talking about?

what is wrong if he instructs how to do matam?

why do u sound just like a crap of shiit?

[Hakimi]

I know billions are collected from bohras world wide, and I dont think even 20% of total collection is given back to community in any form of help, well while I am in misaak of DAI it is haram to doubt his intention, so this is my thought he might be preparing for the coming of imam uz zamaan?

coz when Imam will come back he will need lots of money to set down a whole empire and rule the world.

this is just a thought, do u agree?

and please dont bring up the crap of some court case about what syedna taher saifuddin said some thing, coz there is no proof of it, and as a tayyebi ismaili shia, we very much believe in presence of Imam uz zaman(s).

[ghulam muhammed]

what is wrong if he instructs how to do matam?
why do u sound just like a crap of shiit?

Actually you are sounding like one. Matam is supposed to be the epitome of grief. Do you need a guidance or training in order to express your grief ? If a beloved in your family dies, do you ask your elders to show you how to mourn ? I think you should hire 'rudalis' who will train you in the methods of grief as they are professionals in that field ! Grief is an emotion which is expressed in ones own way just like love, if you need trainers then the emotion itself is bogus and only for namesake.

[ghulam muhammed]

I know billions are collected from bohras world wide, and I dont think even 20% of total collection is given back to community in any form of help, well while I am in misaak of DAI it is haram to doubt his intention, so this is my thought he might be preparing for the coming of imam uz zamaan?

coz when Imam will come back he will need lots of money to set down a whole empire and rule the world.this is just a thought,

do u agree?

No one in his right mind would agree that the dai is accumulating wealth just for the sake of Imam-uz-zaman. Just look around you and see how the illgotten wealth is flaunted and used by his sons for their extravagant and opulant lifestyles. See how much of the wealth is in total control of his sons and relatives who blatantly use it for their own aiyashi.

BTW If you read the bohra literature on the virtues and power of the hidden Imam then you will realise that he is so very powerful that he doesnt need any wealth to spread his word. He is supposed to posses such divine powers that the world at large will bow down before him just by looking at his radiant face. There are many such virtues which according to bohras elevate the Imam to such a level that worldly wealth is irrelavent to him.

[think]

The imam does not need the dai to be his tax collector. The true imam does not need world money for his services and to further his cause. The example of our Rasool is before us. His father had already expired when he was born; his mother and grand father expired when he was about six years old. He was born an orphan and there is an ayat in the quran"wal liaile aza saja haa, ma wad duaa ka wa ma kalla". Allah takes care of his own. There is no need for the dai to collect money for the imam. money is collected only and only for the dai, his zadas and their children for their own personal spending.

[pheonix]

I know billions are collected from bohras world wide, and I dont think even 20% of total collection is given back to community in any form of help, well while I am in misaak of DAI it is haram to doubt his intention, so this is my thought he might be preparing for the coming of imam uz zamaan?

coz when Imam will come back he will need lots of money to set down a whole empire and rule the world.this is just a thought,

do u agree?

No one in his right mind would agree that the dai is accumulating wealth just for the sake of Imam-uz-zaman. Just look around you and see how the illgotten wealth is flaunted and used by his sons for their extravagant and opulant lifestyles. See how much of the wealth is in total control of his sons and relatives who blatantly use it for their own aiyashi.

BTW If you read the bohra literature on the virtues and power of the hidden Imam then you will realise that he is so very powerful that he doesnt need any wealth to spread his word. He is supposed to posses such divine powers that the world at large will bow down before him just by looking at his radiant face. There are many such virtues which according to bohras elevate the Imam to such a level that worldly wealth is irrelavent to him.

Which bohra literature are you referring to you moron. You with your pea brain may believe in such a super natural imam, to whom all the world will bow down and convert just by looking at him(ROFL) but we do not. They didnt even bow down to Hussain, the greatest of the Imams. Hasnt it occurred to you that the literature is allegorical. Moron