Hello all :)

[rehaan]

Salams to everyone

Hello. I am Rehaan. A Sunni Muslim, from Bombay, aged 24, which I guess I have to categorize myself as in the very first statement. I am happy to see this site with the name of "Progressive" attached to it. Well, as is always the case, there is this Bohri girl that I wish to marry. My family has no qualms of me converting at all. Absolutely no issues. Also, her family objects the fact that I am not bohri but they have given me one window of oppurtunity ( I don't know how fair is it). So the condition put forward to me is that if I manage of convert by the end of this year, within, say approximately 40 days. They would let me marry her and all will be well. In case this doesn't happen, The condition clearly laid is she goes her way, I go my way. Plus, I would have to figure this out all by myself because her mother feels that in case anyone helps from her family and the higher ups in her family come to know, It will just lead to a mess.

Also, I am no hardcore muslim. I am thankful that my family understands my love and is ready to let me convert without any pressure at all. But the only inclination to convert is ofcourse, love. And the biggest constraint is the TIME factor. I am ready to push limits to the best of my capabilities. But I really need your help, if not for anything, then definitely to save my love. I shall pray for the well being of all of you who wish the best for me.

So, can some of you enlighten me on the procedure, the address, the person to contact. What are the formalities involved etc etc? I would like to reiterate than my entering the community is strictly for marriage purposes and I do not mind praying in Bohri mosques et all. The simple traditions that you would be following would be gladly accepted. No issues, In fact my family would be delighted to see me in a different place. Yes, I know it sounds weird but yes, My family is very liberal and gave me the maximum freedom.

Please help me.

Best regards,

P.S: Please consider these as the helpless pleas of a man. Help me. Please.

[khudaparast]

ROFL

[Safiuddin]

Salaam to you Rehaan,

First of all, I am glad that you have found someone to love. Congratulations and best wishes.
Secondly, no need to pray for me - prayer is self-serving - and no man (or woman) invented deity has ever answered any
of humanity's prayers.

With regards to your decision to marry the person you love, i find it alarming that a 24 year old
needs permission from anyone else to marry whom he pleases. You indicate that your family has
given you permission - thus it follows that if they had NOT given you permission to marry the girl of your choice,
you would have bent to the wishes of others and sacrificed your happiness on the altar of your family's agendas.
This demonstrates a lack of courage, self-assertion, and an unnatural devotion to others.

You have now set the stage to allow yourself to be manipulated for the rest of your life.
You and your beloved need nothing except a legal formality for your marriage to be recognized.
Bohri rituals are not simple, and you will be entering a cult of jaahils that will begin to part you of your money from the day they set eyes on you.
And I am sure you understand what kind of people are easily parted from their money.
There is no need for you to join any cult, group, social club, milieu, religion, brotherhood, temple, church, or organization for you to get married.
A question you should ask your beloved is this: Will you become Sunni and marry me? I daresay I already know the answer.

I suggest you stop acting like an adolescent and start behaving like a man- and marry whom you wish.
Or else keep your head in your mummy's lap the rest of your life. If you and your beloved are not willing to take an
adult step and decide whom to marry without any coercion or external permission, then you aren't ready for this.
I'm certain this is not the answer you were hoping to hear - however, this is something you should ponder.

Good luck.

[anajmi]

thus it follows that if they had NOT given you permission to marry the girl of your choice,
you would have bent to the wishes of others and sacrificed your happiness on the altar of your family's agendas.
This demonstrates a lack of courage, self-assertion, and an unnatural devotion to others.

You have now set the stage to allow yourself to be manipulated for the rest of your life.

Actually, this demonstrates being a human. Otherwise there is no difference between humans and animals. Are you an animal who wouldn't sacrifice anything for the sake of your family? Actually, that would be worse than an animal. Even animals are known to sacrifice themselves for their family. Courage is when you sacrifice for the sake of others. It isn't courage when you put yourself first and foremost, it is selfishness.

[humanbeing]

Dear Rehaan
Safiuddin has expressed harsh thoughts to think over but he is right.. Love shall follow with no conditions. Girl’s family also shall be equally accepting as yours. Once you start accepting terms and condition there is no end to it.

Marriage is a matured permanent decision of your life, don’t get carried away in such terms and conditions, put your love and beloved to the test. If you are swayed over euphoria of being in love, remember, they will fade away with age, what will remain is loyalty and understanding to accept each other with flaws.

Actually, this demonstrates being a human. Otherwise there is no difference between humans and animals. Are you an animal who wouldn't sacrifice anything for the sake of your family? Actually, that would be worse than an animal. Even animals are known to sacrifice themselves for their family. Courage is when you sacrifice for the sake of others. It isn't courage when you put yourself first and foremost, it is selfishness.

Sacrifice for what ? How does choosing to marry with one’s choice and love be against family ?

[rehaan]

Hello,

I agree to everything what everyone has to say and I completely agree to it. Yes, There isn't anything necessary. Logically, very very true. But you know they are pretty much into the society and for them, acceptance from society matters. And about just going ahead and marrying, as I mentioned, the higher ups in their family are sure bound to create a mess, read violence. And it is not just easy to let go of anyone whom you love, it is JUST.NOT.THAT.EASY. I fully think and I still think the same, but I wish to marry her and the only window of opportunity is if I convert. And regarding to the person who ROFLed, No offence mate, but trust me, I would pray you are never in the situation I am in. Trust me, It isn't a pretty sight down here. About parting with money that you speak of, I have just started earning and I would not keep religious contact with absolutely anyone to the community. I just need a paper which says I am official qualified to called a bohri. I don't mind getting it by hook or by crook. I need to throw the paper at their faces. Take the girl with me. End of story.

So, as I repeat again. Is there a way? Someone can shed light on the quickest and the easiest way among the available tough ways. About the money, if they ask for it. My bank account has barely some thousands. What good would be get out of it. Since its a one time thing, even if, say the person involved would ask for 10000 INR or something, I am sure my parents would give me the amount because they respect the love.

So, my question still stands after respecting every opinion that has been posted so far. Thanks for the luck. In dire need of it.

Everyone here is progressive, even she is. Just that her family is not.

[rehaan]

@Saifuddin: She wouldn't bother becoming a sunni. Trust me on that. I know it. She is bounded by the family. There are things that they have done to her which I suppose are not fit to be described on a public forum, all of that just because she loved a guy who does not belong to her caste. It is appalling, I know. But yeah, she would not mind converting one bit to convert to sunni. But those guys are powerful and grade A fools. Power with a fool is really dangerous. And yes, they are dangerous. About putting it to test, its been on test since an year and a half. Now, she's not being able to take up the heat and I understand that. So, as Anajmi pointed out. I am ready to sacrifice, No issues with that and with the word of parting with money and manipulating, that would be in case I would keep active contact. I am sure I wouldn't keep contact in any religious manner related to the community and probably a few years down the line, I would shift abroad.

But your words were a delight to read.

[rehaan]

To everyone else,

I do not wish to hurt the religious statements of any of the members who happen to follow the ethics of the community closely, I am just expression my personal regarding my own life and the reasons revolving around them so that I get the best advice. I searched the whole of the internet but could not find a proper source of information anywhere. SO, I turned to this Forum as one of the last resorts

[SBM]

Hello Rehaan
Salaam
In my opinion you should ask girl and her parents to make all kind of arrangements for you to take MISAQ- a step required to be Bohra and then let them arrange for your Nikkah and any other rituals. Let her parents play a part in arranging everything as you can always tell them that you do not know the system. Remember Bohras are Muslims and nothing wrong in one becoming Bohra.Love conquers all.Girl is trying to help her parents to stay in the society and nothing wrong if help her with her wishes. I know many Bohra girls who married non bohras and they did follow all the rituals and after marriage both of them never showed up at Markaz. So go ahead and enjoy a long lasting relationship.Hopefully Br Mustafa Nalwala who used to frequent this forum and is from Mumbai can help you in this regard thru PM,Please do not discourage Rehan to live happily, he is marrying some one in Islam,the problem is not Bohraism but the corruption and innovation in current hierarchy that is what I thought we are fighting about

[rehaan]

Dear SBM,

Thanks a ton for hitting the right note. They do not really approve of me and they have openly said they are playing unfair. They sort of covered it up by saying that they don't have much idea about it. And since there is another wedding happening in the house at the same time, they cannot divert their attention towards me. They very well can help me in case they want to, but they dont wish to help me because if I am unsuccessful in converting in December because I have to try on my own, they would conveniently say that I was the one who was unable to convert. They had given me enough window of oppurtunity and etc etc which they also realize is unfair. But yeah, they don't want it to happen so that they can ask her to move on in life and forget me.

Its just me on this path with support from my parents. I am revealing my exact state of mind so that I can connect to the right person who shall guide me to do it. Guide me correctly I must say. I don't want to fall in wrong hands who would make me run pillar to pillar and I lose valuable time. I just have 30 days. Its a scary thought losing. I am sure you would empathize with me.

SO answering your question, no they would not help me. Its just me and I have to do it myself.

The unfair world. The unfair rules.

[Safiuddin]

Are you an animal who wouldn't sacrifice anything for the sake of your family? Actually, that would be worse than an animal. Even animals are known to sacrifice themselves for their family. Courage is when you sacrifice for the sake of others. It isn't courage when you put yourself first and foremost, it is selfishness.

Anajmi, I shan't trouble myself to answer your inane question. Why you troubled yourself to make such a query is, however, intriguing.

I disagree with your definition of courage. A lack of fear or hesitation in the face of dangerous odds better defines courage.
Regularly placing the needs of others first and foremost defines codependency - particularly when these decisions involve lifelong implications.
It takes some courage to stand up to your enemies, and even more to assert yourself to your family and friends.
This person's plight is reflective of many sick families in India and Pakistan who must seek to control the lives of their children and
relatives. Their desire to present a particular public face eclipses the true discrimination, hatred, jealousy, and bitterness inherent in their own lives.

There is nothing selfish in taking a stand for what one believes - and nothing quite so selfish as
attempting to control another to effect one's own personal desires and beliefs. Rehaan, I understand that this isn't easy -
I was never under any pretense that this will be a cake-walk. I understand that there are intense family pressures - I'm no stranger
to these family dynamics. I was raised in a family that defines the epitome of Dawoodi Bohras. I married whom I chose - and
every Bohri I knew walked out of my life. I get it.
I do think that you need to think very long and hard about WHY your (girlfriend's ?) family has taken a hands off approach.

If they truly want their daughter's happiness, why have they thrown a roadblock in your way?
And if they are concerned now about what the other family members will do, what will happen to you and your wife's lives AFTER
you are married? The dysfunction appears to be generational. You allude to abuse in your beloved's family. If they are as horrible as you imply,
they'll have no trouble forcing your girl to be married before the next moon.
Do you have any guarantee that your girlfriend won't be betrothed to someone else 30 days (or sooner) from now?
It certainly sounds like a delay tactic to prevent you two from getting married.
If you're planning on leaving anyways, why not go get your girl and save your money for your future?
If this girl's family is behaving this way before you're married, how will things be after the wedding?

I'm sorry if I've been harsh. Unfortunately, I rarely add ghee to the roti.

[rehaan]

Dear Saifuddin,

I understand the situations that you put up. The thing is, I cannot explain the finer intricacies involved in the mess. More than you or me, my parents were worried about my safety POST marriage too. But as I said, I assure of and thank you to have tried to make me aware of the possibilities but all have been taken care of and no drama would happen in case I get my misaq in December.

So, I would request the members who can help me in any manner to write down anything that helps me. I just want that.

[Al Zulfiqar]

rehaan,

i have sent you a pm. please check and reply. do not get so worried. there are always ways and means to find solutions for everything.

[SBM]

Dear SBM,

Thanks a ton for hitting the right note. They do not really approve of me and they have openly said they are playing unfair. They sort of covered it up by saying that they don't have much idea about it. And since there is another wedding happening in the house at the same time, they cannot divert their attention towards me. They very well can help me in case they want to, but they dont wish to help me because if I am unsuccessful in converting in December because I have to try on my own, they would conveniently say that I was the one who was unable to convert. They had given me enough window of oppurtunity and etc etc which they also realize is unfair. But yeah, they don't want it to happen so that they can ask her to move on in life and forget me.

Its just me on this path with support from my parents. I am revealing my exact state of mind so that I can connect to the right person who shall guide me to do it. Guide me correctly I must say. I don't want to fall in wrong hands who would make me run pillar to pillar and I lose valuable time. I just have 30 days. Its a scary thought losing. I am sure you would empathize with me.

SO answering your question, no they would not help me. Its just me and I have to do it myself.

The unfair world. The unfair rules.

Rehaan
If this is the case as you stated then you should forget about it. First of all if you go on your own, her parents will question whether you went to right aami l(Kothar appointed) and any Bohra Aaamil (Kothar appointed) will ask you why you want to convert and if it for marriage they will ask to see her parents and there is the problem, Seems her parents do not want her to marry some one outside the Bohra fold (not a new convert but a die hard abde) and they will not cooperate. Never heard some one putting conditions of 30 days and no guiding their future son in law if they really want to
MY SUGGESTION JUST MAKE THIS LOVE AS SOME THING OF DREAM AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE UNLESS GIRL AGREES TO GO QUIETLY WITH YOU AND HAVE NIKKAH DONE AT ANY ON THE SUNNI MASJID AND MOVE ON WITH LIFE, OVER YEARS HER PARENTS MAY COME AROUND TO ACCEPTING YOU BUT IF GIRL IS NOT READY TO GOV WITH DESPITE KNOWING THAT HER PARENTS ARE PUTTING ALL THESE RIDICULOUS CONDITIONS THEN IT IS FOR YOU GET OUT OF YOUR STUPOR OF LOVE. SORRY HARSH WORDS BUT FACE THE FACTS

[mnoorani]

@Rehaan,
SBM has given you the right advice.You are adult enough to understand.
I wish you the best and please do let us know whenever you get married. We will all be happy for you.

[rehaan]

Dear SBM,

She is not ready to do anything for my own safety. As you said, going to a Sunni mosque and doing it, the family members will get mighty angry and violence may ensue and my safety would be a huge issue. I know what you are trying to say but her hands are also tied. She does something like this. Tada my bones get broken and what not.

[rehaan]

@ Al Zulfiqar: replied. But the message shows in my outbox and not as a sent message. Please let me know in case you have received it.

[rehaan]

Plus, my Topic has been shifted to "Lighter side" . Haha, I do not mind as long as it is visible to the right people

[Muslim First]

Did I see similar post before?

Our old friend is makeing fun again?

I am glad it is shifted to lighter side.
Last time somebody suggested proper second Khatna for groom to become proper Bohra.
Good luck
Wasalaam

[rehaan]

@Muslim first: NO offence but you are wrong.

Regards.

[humanbeing]

Rehaan
To win over your Abde – In – laws :
Try and approach kothar, get some influential amil / shehzada at your side, work your way with words and smooth talking, also be ready to loose some moolah, flatter some egos at local jamat of girl’s family.
Go Ga – Ga over bohra community and sing praises of 51st – 53rd Dai and their family. Learn Ghanu jeevo, express your devotion and love for Dais, believe in all the mojizas and express it like you seen it.
Express your feelings towards event of karbala. Its an emotional string of bohras.
Be ready to change your name as given by Kothar, according to misaaq.
Be prepared to grow beard and wear topi, get some saya kurta and pehran.
Read the book : Mullahs in the mainframe
Travel to famous dargaahs; galiyakot, burhanpur, Mumbai, Ujjain etc, get your pictures clicked doing ziyarat or in front of tombs in white SKT (saya kurta topi)
Learn :
Eating manners of the Thaal of Bohras.
Salaam manners & rules to elders and others
Dates of Mikaats, most importantly salgiraah dates of 51st – 53rd Dais.
Get yourself E-jamaat card.
Make lot of understanding trustworthy bohra friends (males & females).
Cut off from non bohra friends for a while, until you gain control of your life back.

My suggestions are weird, but your problem is dealing with stone headed fanatic abdes, only way to break through is their way or its highway for you, bend now to bend them later !!

[rehaan]

Dear al,

I cannot send any messages to you. I do not know what is wrong. Everything is getting stacked up in the inbox. Can you message me your email id. Emailing would be fine too. Thanks a lot.

[Al Zulfiqar]

rehaan,

when you send a pm, it initially sits in the outbox for a while and then gets sent later. be patient.

[rehaan]

Hello again everyone,

Al helped me figure out a few things. Big thanks to him for the same. I would like to know where would I find the jamaats in Bombay? Any comprehensive list of jamaats in Bombay?

I saw this website http://malumaat.com/archives/jamaat/jamaatsaddress.html

But there are only 3-4 addresses. Clearly, there have to more jamaats right? Can you please give me some addresses of jamaats. Probably nearby to Andheri. Not Santacruz though, its 'her' area

[Muslim First]

Correct Shadi ki 14 sharte (14 terms of right marriage)

by badrijanab on Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:32 am
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7391

[Muslim First]

MISAQ, RAZA and BARAAT were never part of our faith.
by S. Insaf on Tue May 09, 2006 8:24 pm

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p32601

[Al Zulfiqar]

Al helped me figure out a few things. Big thanks to him for the same.

rehaan, my name is not a westernised Al, its al zulfiqar

[ghulam muhammed]

@ rehan,

Dont stress your brains, just go to badri mahal at DN Road, Fort, Mumbai and meet Sheikh Rajabali as he is the proper person who is in charge of such issues................. dont forget to take an envelope of Rs.500/-. This is the fastest and simplest way according to me.

[rehaan]

Dear all,

A Happy New Year to all of you.

I was in constant touch with Mr.Ghulam Muhammed through PMs regarding the whole issue that I am in presently.

Cutting the long story of what I did over the month as advised by Ghulam was that the first point of contact HAS TO be between the girl's family (read mom/dad or both) to the local aamil and once my verification comes on the aamil's letterhead, only then would my involvement begin. I called and spoke to everyone involved with the conversion in the Bohri community at Badri Mahal and this is what I got.

Considering the fact that her mother had asked me to convert myself, I was thinking of the fact that there should be SOME way in which a person who would want to convert to the sect without any purpose of marriage? There ought to be a method right? The thing is I am out of Bombay now and I would be returning only in the 3rd week of May but I can take leave here and come to Bombay for a maximum of one week before I get back for good. This commitment was unavoidable so I had to get out of Bombay.

So, It is my earnest request to all of you. If you could please dig up your religious contacts and let me know how to go about to get the Misaq assuming I would tell the aamil (or whoever performs the misaq) that I want to convert solely for entering the community?

If you would give me the contacts of people who would do this or better still if you could provide me with the procedure for the same, it will be of great help.

Regards.

[asad]

Dear all,
I would tell the aamil (or whoever performs the misaq) that I want to convert solely for entering the community?

You will kill the guy with a bout of hysteria. Beware of that. In last 14 hundred years only people have left no one has come in to cultism.