Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
badrijanab
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#1

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:53 pm

Every cities, village, places, communities have their own customs/rituals. The point to note is: should those local customs/rituals are against dicate of Islam then one should abondon those customs. However, if they are not against tenets/shariyat of Islam then pursuing or not-pursuing those local customs/rituals is subject to individuals wish and is not sin.

Those who mock 'wadhawa', can they cite in Quran or in any authentic book of Islam that this practice is explicitly condemned or debarred?

Indeed if we look at practices of Sunni's and Ithna Asheris - they are explicitly and implicitly acting against command of Quran and Hadees:

[*] Ithna Asheri's kissing Horse (Zulzana) and praying folded hands in his front! Creating idols of Imam Hussain a.s. and others, outfits/scarfs (assuming that of Ahle bayt) and hanging over stick/pipe, metal hand, jhoola, and what not - kissing them, crying in front of them and asking prayers!!![/color][/b]
Jhoola pooja: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz-N5D3Mwig
Pakistan horse show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adpbsClF9gA


[*] Sunni's creating 'taboot' / 'taziya' on Ashoor day and taking processions of same, they will offer phool-mala like Kaafirs do to their idols! Then they will beat drums and celebrate like military of Yazeed did! When those 'taboot' are in processions; Sunni's pass under those 'taboot' considering that act will fullfill their wish!!! Like Hindus offer 'Agarbatti' and yellow garland - Sunni's too will offer scent sticks and yellow garland on those 'taboot' and will kiss that plastic/aluminium structure and ask for prayers!!!![/b][/color]
Jaipur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEfFUy9VAiw
Udaipur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvH06Y0mZNU - is this called sorrow or celebration over murder of Imam Hussain a.s.
Ajmer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlr1Ui2kcLg

ONLY DAWOODI BOHRAS CUSTOMS AND PRACTICES ARE NOT AGAINST ISLAM. OTHER SECTS ESPECIALLY SUNNI'S AND ITHNA ASHERI PRACTICES OF THEIR CUSTOMS AND RITUALS ARE STRICTLY AGAINST ISLAM.
Last edited by badrijanab on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

anajmi
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Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:10 pm

Sunni's creating 'taboot' / 'taziya' on Ashoor day and taking processions of same,
can they cite in Quran or in any authentic book of Islam that this practice is explicitly condemned or debarred?
Then they will beat drums and celebrate like military of Yazeed did!
can they cite in Quran or in any authentic book of Islam that this practice is explicitly condemned or debarred?
When those 'taboot' are in processions; Sunni's pass under those 'taboot' considering that act will fullfill their wish!!!
can they cite in Quran or in any authentic book of Islam that this practice is explicitly condemned or debarred?
Like Hindus offer 'Agarbatti' and yellow garland - Sunni's too will offer scent sticks and yellow garland on those 'taboot' and will kiss that plastic/aluminium structure and ask for prayers!!!!
can they cite in Quran or in any authentic book of Islam that this practice is explicitly condemned or debarred?
If anyone needs a consultant to understand how to get screwed by your own words, contact badrijanab!!

badrijanab
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#3

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:23 pm

You practice and justify what Yazeed did - taking procession by drum beating, shouting and celebrating. So, you and alike are Yazeed (L) wala. And we Bohra mumineen are Imam Hussain a.s. wala.

Prophet Mohammed PBUH said, "Ana minni wa ana minal Hussain." me Hussain se hu, aur Hussain muz se he. Bohra Mumineen are with Hussain, which means they are with Mohammed s.a.w.w. that means they are with Allah. And vice-a-versa for you and alike who do as Yazeed did.

Sunni's asking prayers to 'taboot' is asking someone other than Allah is against Quran! They passing under the 'taboot' with hope their wish will be fullfilled is idol worshiping, it is not praying to Allah!

Your people, kissing man made structure (taboot / taziya) of plastic and aluminium and then kissing it and offering agarbatti and praying - quran and Hadees condem this practices of Sunni's.

ONLY DAWOODI BOHRAS CUSTOMS/RITUALS ARE NOT AGAINST ISLAM.

think
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#4

Unread post by think » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:52 pm

bohras kissing photo of dai , is that not against islam
bohras praying two rakats for dai's health, is that not against islam
bohras picking up flower petals from the mazar of 51st dai and using it for barakat, is that not against islam
I can go on and on, but this should suffice to answer your question.

badrijanab
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Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#5

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:37 pm

think wrote:bohras kissing photo of dai , is that not against islam
bohras praying two rakats for dai's health, is that not against islam
bohras picking up flower petals from the mazar of 51st dai and using it for barakat, is that not against islam
I can go on and on, but this should suffice to answer your question.
Think,

Think and understand: Kothar is not Dawoodi Bohras. No rightful Dai Mutlaq (a.q.) has ever kept their sketch, photos, paintings, etc. Photo kissing is innovation done by present Kothar; thus it has no bearing with original Fatimi ( = Islam) shariyat.

All (nafal) salat Bohras pray only to Allah, there can be different 'niyyat' in those (nafal) salat - praying to Almighty Allah that we are offering this salat to Allah and want its sawab to be received by Imam Hussain a.s. and his associates, to parents, to kids, .... with niyaat that offering this salat to Allah so he may pardon all my sins, etc - hence, niyaat seeking long life for anyone is not incorrect. 'Think' please think.

In no books of Fatimi Dawat it is written that eat petals from flowers lying over grave. If someone does that, is there any harm? No! Does any authentic Islamic book or Quran condemn or explicitly asks not to do? No! 'Think' think.

Non-Bohras customs/rituals as described in previous posts in same thread are against Islam indeed! Because Sunni terrorist rulers threatened the then Hindus and got them converted to Sunni, so fearing life they though get converted to Sunni's (not Islam) but conciously kept their Hindu rituals in their way of astryed Islam which is still alive and can be witnessed in the Youtube link provided in first post!

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#6

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:12 pm

badrijanab,

Do you understand the meaning of "explicit"? Do you have a copy of Oxford and Webster that you can refer to? You asked for an explicit ayah from the Quran banning the practice and I did the same. Can you quote an "explicit" ayah from the Quran? I can guarantee that you cannot. You are a fool and a liar. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Kothar is not Dawoodi Bohras.
Similarly, those worshipping idols are not a part of Ahlus Sunnah and are not muslims!!

Bohra spring
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Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#7

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:30 pm

Bj

If these are not your customs , and you may agree they are not required as faith

But when your diai or zadas notices that the followers are performing these with the intent of human worshipping why can he not discourage or stop these naive abdes from doing it. At this moment his Devine guidance and knowledge disappears and like a king they love the lavishes.

Please stop giving silly excuses and b$&@@t

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#8

Unread post by humanbeing » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:14 pm

BJ
In my personal experience, I have never seen any sunni muslim abuse imam ali or mock imam hussain’s ordeal at karbala. Niether they celebrate the occasion of muharram, for sunni muslim its 1st month of Islamic year and they keep fast on 10th of muharram because of prophethood was given to musa nabi.

Niether I have heard any sunni muslim glorify yazeeed or muawiya. Infact they too admit yazeed and muawiya were tyrant rules against whom imam hussain stood for justice and islam.

I also seen at sunni muslims houses; texts and photo frames appreciating imam hussain’s sacrifice and revering imam ali’s stature as caliph.

The taziya and taboot processions you mentioned, I remember in childhood days, my town would have these processions carried out by people, and bohras would line up to see it and do those things like praying in grief. They considered the procession as juloos of sham-e-gariba ( I shall be corrected, if I m wrong).

You majorly talk about fatimi (Islamic) shariyat , so please clarify if following acts / rituals / practices fall under fatimi shariyat or not ?

Kadambosi
Wajebat (collective taxes)
Ruku Chitthi
Sajda to Imam / Dai
Maatam

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:34 pm

In no books of Fatimi Dawat it is written that eat petals from flowers lying over grave. If someone does that, is there any harm? No! Does any authentic Islamic book or Quran condemn or explicitly asks not to do? No! 'Think' think.
Again badrijanab shows us the liar and the manipulator of authentic Islam that he is. He asks for "explicit" bans and yet fails to produce the same when asked for the same. Can badrijanab show the explicit prohibition of
Sunni's creating 'taboot' / 'taziya' on Ashoor day and taking processions of same,
Can the liar badrijanab back up just one thing that comes out of his mouth? Just one????

And then he asks
If someone does that, is there any harm? No!
Is there any harm in taboot / taziya on ashoor day? How about taking processions? Is there any harm in processions? Do you know or understand what might cause harm to your deen? Do you understand the meaning of the word "harm"? Do you have oxford and Webster to refer to?

bohraji
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#10

Unread post by bohraji » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:31 am

@ Human Being.
The Sunni Bohras of Ahmedabad, specifically choose the Ashura day to perform and celebrate marriages and other joyous function. I have also heard of Memons doing the same . Recently Zakir Naik has declared yazeed as a jannati. Come out and you will see the abuses to the Ahle bait by the shia bashers everywhere.

humanbeing
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#11

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:01 pm

Badri janab
Care to answer my queries !
humanbeing wrote: please clarify if following acts / rituals / practices fall under fatimi shariyat or not ?
Kadambosi
Wajebat (collective taxes)
Ruku Chitthi
Sajda to Imam / Dai
Maatam

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Customs/Rituals - Bohras v/s others

#12

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:57 pm

Answers in red text next to your queries -
humanbeing wrote:Badri janab
Care to answer my queries !
humanbeing wrote: please clarify if following acts / rituals / practices fall under fatimi shariyat or not ?
Kadambosi - Don't know
Wajebat (collective taxes) - No
Ruku Chitthi - No
Sajda to Imam / Dai - Yes, there are two types of Sajda one to Allah and another to rightful auliya, the latter has different position/drill than former. Present Kothar ask their conned follower to offer them sajda similar to that offered to Allah.
Maatam - meaning of matam is 'shok sabha' or gathering to mourn, etc i.e. cry and learn and behave as desired by Hussain a.s.. Breast and head beating is disallowed and is not covered under matam. Hence, matam (crying) is allowed and breast/head beating is disallowed in Fatimi Dawat