Why r dawoodi bhoras so meek and stupid?

[think]

you are dealing with imposters and goondas of bohri religion which has already gone to the dogs. money is their game. They break their promises every minute. you should know better; for the kothar and their henchmen, money talks and bullshit walks. They will make you their friend,extort all the money they can out of you and leave you dry. And have personal experiences. The local amils and his abde group is like blind leading the blind. I would not trust long bearded men one bit, specially if they display a cult like obedience from the dress they wear.

[faiyaz0987]

I have a fair idea why they are so meek and stupid. There are many reasons to it but I will list a few important ones.

1) Its been a long standing Idea amongsts bohri that the other muslims are below standard and barbaric then they detest interacting with other muslims.

2) Due to difference in culture bohris rarely make friends with hindus around them

3) Bohris think that all the Christians are over indulging hedonist who partake in drinking, music and parties all their life and do nothing productive.
These are a few reasons why bohris do not have enough exposure and experience, their entire circle of people begin and end with bohris. Also the constant hammering of subtle and overt messages that apni gazab shaan che and apni shaan nirali che actually doesn't interest them in going out in the world and facing new experiences

[wise_guy]

I have a fair idea why they are so meek and stupid. There are many reasons to it but I will list a few important ones.

1) Its been a long standing Idea amongsts bohri that the other muslims are below standard and barbaric then they detest interacting with other muslims.

2) Due to difference in culture bohris rarely make friends with hindus around them

3) Bohris think that all the Christians are over indulging hedonist who partake in drinking, music and parties all their life and do nothing productive.
These are a few reasons why bohris do not have enough exposure and experience, their entire circle of people begin and end with bohris. Also the constant hammering of subtle and overt messages that apni gazab shaan che and apni shaan nirali che actually doesn't interest them in going out in the world and facing new experiences

Dear faiyaz0987, you have a very limited perspective about bohris and people in general. Well people of other religion and castes (especially in India) also have the same feeling towards people not belonging to their community. Take for example, even the Jains, Gujaratis, Marwaris won't eat or touch food at a Muslim's house o r prefer to be friends with muslims etc. So singling out Bohras is wrong.

Secondly, people in India live in Ghettos.. Bohris live in bohri mohalla, gujratis live in thier own areas and so on (well in most cases, I must say though I don't live in a ghetto).. It is next to impossible for a muslim to find an apartment (flat) in Mumbai of his choice of area even if he is willing to pay any amount. The builder (even if the builder is muslim) simply refuses to sell it to muslims (The reason is that if a muslim takes an apartment, then non muslims won't take neighboring apartments). This ghettoisation makes it almost difficult for people to mingle with other communities or is very limited. This only happens once they move out of school and have to mingle with people from other communities at workplace or other business. But, by then it is very difficult to accept or understand other cultures.

So, please don't single out bohris. First of all, you need to study the ground realities and then comment over here.

[faiyaz0987]

Ghetthoism is a harsh reality that I m aware of, but living in these conditions and being used to them and looking for ghettos for security is another thing altogether. Bohris choose to do business with bohris, and this ghetto mentality is so ingrained in the people that most bohris choose to work in bohri organizations for a pittance rather than go out and find their self worth, so wise guy I write everything considering all aspects of reality. Being born and brought up in the same ghetto called bohri mohalla in mumbai. But i choose to go out in the world and face life, so does my brother and my immediate family. But i see this sense of belonging so much in my extended family that their entire world begins and ends with bohris and bohri mohalla to the point that they cant even think outside of it

[wise_guy]

Ghetthoism is a harsh reality that I m aware of, but living in these conditions and being used to them and looking for ghettos for security is another thing altogether. Bohris choose to do business with bohris, and this ghetto mentality is so ingrained in the people that most bohris choose to work in bohri organizations for a pittance rather than go out and find their self worth, so wise guy I write everything considering all aspects of reality. Being born and brought up in the same ghetto called bohri mohalla in mumbai. But i choose to go out in the world and face life, so does my brother and my immediate family. But i see this sense of belonging so much in my extended family that their entire world begins and ends with bohris and bohri mohalla to the point that they cant even think outside of it

u are again wrong that bohris do business with bohris etc... how can u do a business like that in India or anywhere... common, please speak some sense, bohris are minuscule in numbers. A business can't survive like that in practice. Bohras are very much acceptable of other cultures as well as mingle at a larger level than the other sects. And speaking of bohris working for bohri organizations is also not true. How many bohri organizations are there apart from small scale businesses, a few medium scale businesses and a handful of large corporations like Wockhardt etc. Bohras work for any business. In fact, nowadays, bohra shop owners don't prefer to hire bohri sales person and workers due to their need for lots of time off for miqaats, majlis, jamans etc ! Please, your comments are really narrow minded and don't portray a true picture.

[Bohra spring]

Ghetthoism is a harsh reality that I m aware of, but living in these conditions and being used to them and looking for ghettos for security is another thing altogether. Bohris choose to do business with bohris, and this ghetto mentality is so ingrained in the people that most bohris choose to work in bohri organizations for a pittance rather than go out and find their self worth, so wise guy I write everything considering all aspects of reality. Being born and brought up in the same ghetto called bohri mohalla in mumbai. But i choose to go out in the world and face life, so does my brother and my immediate family. But i see this sense of belonging so much in my extended family that their entire world begins and ends with bohris and bohri mohalla to the point that they cant even think outside of it

Fayaz after venturing outside the Bohra world and meeting and dealing with new people do you notice the difference ? Share your experience of what you like and dislike how others operate vs Bohra.

Your views are relevant and valid ...I agree that there is too much dependency on the Community and if Mohalla is an example then this dependency is being exploited.

The moment an individual self actualises that he she does not care whether a Bohra or non Bohra marries, buries, provides prayers, an the community association only fulfils minority of the time in ones life...that state unlishes freedom, choice and power to stand up.

My own example when years ago an Amil was forcing to change my wedding date, I subtly suggested the government Kadhi , Shia Molvi is available anytime and at no cost , the Amil compromised when the local Sheikh knowing my history whispered to the Amil not to test my threat. The same with burial of a family, I and my non Bohra friends informed the khidmat guzar to make their minds up quickly whether they want to help bury the dead or the Muslim Association truck is ready a phone call away.

So in the context do not get dependent eg tiffin , hajj umrah travel arrangements, socialisation, lending, ..explore and you will see there is life and civilisation outside the mohalla, some of it is far superior

Turn the tables so kothar need us as source of their funding and not us...this is true vyapar in business sense...of course as Bohras that would sound familiar

[faiyaz0987]

The examples of bohri people trapped in the self righteous well are too many.

Only bohri people are allowed in a bohri masjid. I dont understand how can one refuse anyone from entering the house of GOD, it is for worship for one and all.

Bohri community needs money for the burial of the dead. Imagine asking the grieving family of the recently departed for a boat-load of money for the burial, one cant sink much lower. If they cant provide enough fund then the body is sent away to the community burial grounds where the family cant think of visiting the grave departed beloved for months.

I am not against GOD, I am against organised religion. GOD doesn't need money to forgive my sins but our revered MOLA and his family does.
GOD doesn't need money to recognize the marriage of 2 souls and they vows of commitment to fidelity towards each other, MOLA and his family does.
Some would argue that MOLA is just one person who is mostly not aware and partly not able to control the corrupt that the so called religious appointee practice.
If MOLA is not aware, then he doesn't have the spirituality thus proclaimed
If is not able to control the corruption amongst the appointees then he is weak willed and not the right person to follow towards any kind of spiritual enlightenment. Jesus was one person who stood against many, so was Gandhi and Prophet Mohammed.

Now of my questions to the MOLA followers is, What kind of spiritual enlightenment have you experienced following the righteous religion taught by the revered MOLA?

[ammar786]

shezaada ammar,

"actually you have no identity, you are affraid ... with fake identity. if you have guts than say publicly or with true identity",

"if you are than give your ITS ID along with password."

we are all waiting to get your real identity with address, contacts and ITS ID with password. if you are a true fanatic abdesyedna bohra, you should not be afraid and you should have the guts, confidence and conviction.

This is not the answer of my question. first of all i asked you for your ITS ID, i dont want your address or anythingels i just want to know whether you are dawoodi bohra or not.

you are trying to illute the my question by asking my identity when i asked yours.

[ammar786]

Amar

Can you and Dawaat e Hadiya promise me if I give you my real name you will not track me or my family down and harass me. Do you and DH commit that you will take this debate as free speech and respect the law that allows me to have a liberal debate.

I mean if you think I may have offended you you can press civil charges and we sort it out in court

I wait for your reply and I will give you my real name if you promise me and tell me which Shazada après the promise.

We never harass you people, and i dont want your name or address i just asked you that if you are bohra than give your ITS iD along with password.
and who stops you from doing debate??, you people always do gibat of our community, dont you??
its as simple as that if you do not have faith than its ok but why keep on rebelling against us???
and about harassment i am quite aware what you people do with dawoodi bohras, and even you must mind that you are spared just because of rehmat of syedna mohammed burhanuddin aqa (t.u.s). and must do shukar for that.

[wise_guy]

Amar

Can you and Dawaat e Hadiya promise me if I give you my real name you will not track me or my family down and harass me. Do you and DH commit that you will take this debate as free speech and respect the law that allows me to have a liberal debate.

I mean if you think I may have offended you you can press civil charges and we sort it out in court

I wait for your reply and I will give you my real name if you promise me and tell me which Shazada après the promise.

We never harass you people, and i dont want your name or address i just asked you that if you are bohra than give your ITS iD along with password.
and who stops you from doing debate??, you people always do gibat of our community, dont you??
its as simple as that if you do not have faith than its ok but why keep on rebelling against us???
and about harassment i am quite aware what you people do with dawoodi bohras, and even you must mind that you are spared just because of rehmat of syedna mohammed burhanuddin aqa (t.u.s). and must do shukar for that.

dear Ammar, you must first understand the purpose of this forum and progressive bohras. They are not against the Bohras but the wrong doings happening in our community. I can understand that these guys sometimes go overboard and divert from their purpose but the thing is that in our community, a mumin is never treated as a human being. People are forced to cough up money in the name of several schemes etc... etc.. The Aamil sahebs, jamaat members, bhai sahebs call themselves khidmat guzaars but who actually is doing khidmat ?? It is the common people who are serving like slaves and the people in the upper echelon and authority are enjoying.. A simple mumin is never treated with dignity. He is just considered as a machine like an ATM. What do you have to say about this Mr. Ammar ?

[think]

go ahead ammar, lets hear your answer. Whether it be marraige death or other drummed up events of this kothar money is the bottom line. your own self respect is sold in the kothar bazaar.

[ammar786]

We never harass you people, and i dont want your name or address i just asked you that if you are bohra than give your ITS iD along with password.
and who stops you from doing debate??, you people always do gibat of our community, dont you??
its as simple as that if you do not have faith than its ok but why keep on rebelling against us???
and about harassment i am quite aware what you people do with dawoodi bohras, and even you must mind that you are spared just because of rehmat of syedna mohammed burhanuddin aqa (t.u.s). and must do shukar for that.[/quote]

dear Ammar, you must first understand the purpose of this forum and progressive bohras. They are not against the Bohras but the wrong doings happening in our community. I can understand that these guys sometimes go overboard and divert from their purpose but the thing is that in our community, a mumin is never treated as a human being. People are forced to cough up money in the name of several schemes etc... etc.. The Aamil sahebs, jamaat members, bhai sahebs call themselves khidmat guzaars but who actually is doing khidmat ?? It is the common people who are serving like slaves and the people in the upper echelon and authority are enjoying.. A simple mumin is never treated with dignity. He is just considered as a machine like an ATM. What do you have to say about this Mr. Ammar ?[/quote]


Again you left my question unanswerd and started a new baseless topic.
I will answer your every question but first of answer me about the thing which we were talking, when you get trapped than you start totally new topic.

[Maqbool]

Ammar,

It is a fact that there is harassment. And who raise there voice against this they are punished by humiliating in the majlis or any gathering. You are asking an identity, it is obvious that you wish that they are harassed. The Ejamat no. is sufficient to find the full identity of the bohra.

You are the person who is speaking in the favor of the culprits even though you are afraid to use your actual name and coming hear with factual name. You are confirming that how dangerous to give identity to the killers.

There is no point in denying answer to Wise-guy and has no connection to revel identity. You are on the forum other then the kothar sponsored sites. You should be aware of this and if you respect the democracy then only you are entitled to take part in this discussion.

Hope you have understood this basic principal and give the appropriate answer, other wise you are confirming the wrong doing of your masters.

[faiyaz0987]

Dear Ammar,

Do you want my full name and address, even though I am born a dawoodi bohri. I dont attend your majlis where u praise your dai, instead of remembrance of IMAM HUSSAIN. Mai itna majboor nahi ki aapki ki free fund ki jamat ka khaana khao and if someone comes to my house to ask for my e jamaat card or tells me aamil saheb has called you. Woh laat khaa kar wapas jaata hai.

UKHAD LO JO UKHAD NA HAI.

CHAHIYE KYA?

[ammar786]

Dear Ammar,

Do you want my full name and address, even though I am born a dawoodi bohri. I dont attend your majlis where u praise your dai, instead of remembrance of IMAM HUSSAIN. Mai itna majboor nahi ki aapki ki free fund ki jamat ka khaana khao and if someone comes to my house to ask for my e jamaat card or tells me aamil saheb has called you. Woh laat khaa kar wapas jaata hai.

UKHAD LO JO UKHAD NA HAI.

CHAHIYE KYA?

Wah yaar aap to andar se aekdum bahadur nikle.. haha.. , tabhi toh yaha par hosyari dikha raha hai. mujhe tera kuch kaam nai hai bhai bas fake identity se kyo baat karte ho khud ke pehchan se bhi kabhi kiaya karo. we know that you are yourself feeling ashame of you.

[faiyaz0987]

Mere bhai, Faiyaz is my real name.

[think]

the sentiments of fayaz are shared by many others in the west. People are busy working and leading their lives and when the amil keeps calling them on the phone for asking why they do not come to jamaat, they simply reply" bhaisaheb, you have nothing to do, all day , but we have to go and work" so please do not call us. And ofcourse the amil keeps calling for money for some drummed up project.

[aftabm]

Ammar

This is a free anonymous forum and is run by Progressive/Reformist minded Dawoodi Bohras. We do not ask any one's identity, be it orthodox(mainstream, if you like) or reformist minded. Please bear this in mind. Members of the board vary from Hardcore Orthodox to Staunch Reformists.

All we encourage here is healthy debate on reform and related issues for Dawoodi Bohras.

[Al Zulfiqar]

ammar,

i have doubts whether you are a dawoodi bohra. please post here your ITS no to prove that you are indeed one. what are you afraid of?

you are confirming the fact that in reality, dawoodi bohras actually are meek, stupid and slavish.

[tanwir23]

I agree that dawoodi bohras are meek, but mind that stupid they aren't. Actually the dawoodi bohras are the other side of the Hindu Marwaris. As long as their business is progressing they give a damn about other things. Infact most of the Bohras are just concerned about the worldly life and they do not have fear of Allah in their hearts. They will go along with any person (now it is the Dai) who shall give them protection and help them increase their business. The Dai understands this and so he manages and administers the Bohra community as the CEO of a limited company whose sole motive is earning profit for the company and its shareholders. In the process he is also rewarded with bonus which the ordinary bohras won't mind as long as they are also getting profited.

[ammar786]

ammar,

i have doubts whether you are a dawoodi bohra. please post here your ITS no to prove that you are indeed one. what are you afraid of?

you are confirming the fact that in reality, dawoodi bohras actually are meek, stupid and slavish.

There is no need of proving myself dawoodi bohra because there is no point of doubts but thats different thing that fool can think anything and they never need any base for arguement. actually you people must always say that you are reformist (not dawoodi bohra). and dont feel shy about that

[ammar786]

Mere bhai, Faiyaz is my real name.

faiyaz to hazaro hai mere bhai..

[Al Zulfiqar]

There is no need of proving myself dawoodi bohra because there is no point of doubts ... and dont feel shy about that

ammar beta,

so from now on can you please make all your postings in daawat ni zabaan? and if you cannot and do not, then we will consider you a gaddaar non-abdebohra.

[ammar786]

There is no need of proving myself dawoodi bohra because there is no point of doubts ... and dont feel shy about that

ammar beta,

so from now on can you please make all your postings in daawat ni zabaan? and if you cannot and do not, then we will consider you a gaddaar non-abdebohra.

How can a gaddar say someone gaddar??
and who are you to give consideration, and who cares ?? i dont need to scream and say that i am dawoodi bohra it seems by my arguement.

[Kaka Akela]

Dawoodi Bohras are not meek and/or stupid. it is easy for people to call you such names when you are down and out.
The Dawoodi bohras (the Davids) collectively have been bound and gagged for last 30-40 years, they have no weapon to fight with, all is in the hands of (or in favor of ) the Goliath. All the Dawat rules apply to the hoi polloi ( little people) and none to the top 3 classes in our caste system.
They have twisted the meanings of everything under the guise of Taweel, for example, collecting fakhera zakaat from 5-15 year old madrassa kids, ask them what is this nonsense as these kids have not earned or saved anything then what are they paying zakaat on?? Their answers will be so far-fetched and twisted that it will blow your mind, the simple answer is they want money and more money, their apetite and greed for money is unsatiable. They collect moneys from little madressa kids for ziafat of the Dai or his Mansoos, the kids are thousands of miles away and don't even get the sharaf of qadambosi in their ziafat, but they collect the money and pocket it for themselves, who knows where it goes. even if it goes to the Dai it is a strange meaning to a ziafat very twisted logic.
Fakher najwas are collected for Imam, Dai, and Mansoos every time, even though it may be an ocassion for one of them, ask why the other two and they look at you as if you are stupid to ask such a question. Their such looks have made us stupid and powerless.

[Al Zulfiqar]

How can a gaddar say someone gaddar??
and who are you to give consideration, and who cares ?? i dont need to scream and say that i am dawoodi bohra it seems by my arguement.

please translate that into daawat ni zabaan. you cannot be considered a pucca abdesyedna until you write in the holy language taught to you in sabaks. that is the only way you can be recognised as abde dawoodi bohra without screaming in pain.

[zinger]

Dawoodi Bohras are not meek and/or stupid. it is easy for people to call you such names when you are down and out.
The Dawoodi bohras (the Davids) collectively have been bound and gagged for last 30-40 years, they have no weapon to fight with, all is in the hands of (or in favor of ) the Goliath. All the Dawat rules apply to the hoi polloi ( little people) and none to the top 3 classes in our caste system.
They have twisted the meanings of everything under the guise of Taweel, for example, collecting fakhera zakaat from 5-15 year old madrassa kids, ask them what is this nonsense as these kids have not earned or saved anything then what are they paying zakaat on?? Their answers will be so far-fetched and twisted that it will blow your mind, the simple answer is they want money and more money, their apetite and greed for money is unsatiable. They collect moneys from little madressa kids for ziafat of the Dai or his Mansoos, the kids are thousands of miles away and don't even get the sharaf of qadambosi in their ziafat, but they collect the money and pocket it for themselves, who knows where it goes. even if it goes to the Dai it is a strange meaning to a ziafat very twisted logic.
Fakher najwas are collected for Imam, Dai, and Mansoos every time, even though it may be an ocassion for one of them, ask why the other two and they look at you as if you are stupid to ask such a question. Their such looks have made us stupid and powerless.

i have seen this too, collecting salaam money and other contributions for ziafat from an 8-year old.

all i can say is that if indeed this money is going into the pocket of an aamil, he will never be able to digest the money (hazam nai thaai aa paisa)

[MunkirNakir]

its not about hajam thase ke nai, its about why do u even pay when u already know it is wrong?

Hussain(s) taught to fight against injustice, then how come bohra forget that, though they do matam 24-7?

I have already stopped paying any dime to kothar nor do I put any money in nazrul makaam or any gallas of rozas...

join me, we need more people, let boycott them and not let them boycott us....

until people keep paying there is no way any change will come, first we need to cut money supply to kothar.....

if kothari people wants to do ayyashi they have to produce there own money, I wont let them do ayyashi on my hard earn money.....

[soldier-e-Ali]

I have been raised up in a family which gives great importance to education and at the same time we were deeply religious. But luckily my elders always shied away from dai worship. I thank my stars I was born into such a family. Now at a mature age I can easily sit on the brink of this society and analyse why things are going so wrong.as the years are progressing the younger generation of the dai is straying away from the teachings of the Quran not that their fathers were much afraid of the almighty, but since their numbers are increasing, and insecurity also is growing in the same proportion they want to gather maximum resources for seven generations. The important question is that the common dawoodi bohra who pays minimum vajebaat and sabil, knows how to lap up to the local aamil, takes benefit of which ever scheme available, and enjoys rich food in the jamaat has got it all laid out on a platter. Why will he ever revolt?he will always stand with folded hands and do the dais shukr, it is the middle class of bohras who will have to take a stand, because the corporate bohra is already in partnership with the members of syednas family,save a few honest souls, so ultimately the responsibility of cleansing the system has to be taken up by young, educated, Allah fearing youth. Any takers?.....

you are right. actually i m born in dawoodi bohra family where my grandmother is a total believer of this so called "dai" and donated everything she had with her to dai recently when this mufaddal came to kandivali (12 kg gold and 15 lakhs ) I m so frustrated I really like my grand mother but the thing is she is brain washed by the amil saheb and every fraud kotharis that our dai will take us to jannat which is totally a fraud statement it is only our karma which leads us to paradise and i also want to share that when this mufaddal came to kandivali he took 12 crores along with him which came from houses of middle class public and rich chutiyas and the most shocking thing i witnessed was every one was kissing the sox of mufaddal in the name of kadambosi and if i m telling lie just enquire at kandivali jamat this mufaddal was sitting on some table and everyone was kissing the dirty sox of his what the hell is going on in the name of islam this is not islam this is somehing else i want to do somrthing. jus dont want to sit quietly .thanks

[wise_guy]

you are right. actually i m born in dawoodi bohra family where my grandmother is a total believer of this so called "dai" and donated everything she had with her to dai recently when this mufaddal came to kandivali (12 kg gold and 15 lakhs ) I m so frustrated I really like my grand mother but the thing is she is brain washed by the amil saheb and every fraud kotharis that our dai will take us to jannat which is totally a fraud statement it is only our karma which leads us to paradise and i also want to share that when this mufaddal came to kandivali he took 12 crores along with him which came from houses of middle class public and rich chutiyas and the most shocking thing i witnessed was every one was kissing the sox of mufaddal in the name of kadambosi and if i m telling lie just enquire at kandivali jamat this mufaddal was sitting on some table and everyone was kissing the dirty sox of his what the hell is going on in the name of islam this is not islam this is somehing else i want to do somrthing. jus dont want to sit quietly .thanks

12 kgs of gold....