Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Mkenya
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#1

Unread post by Mkenya » Mon May 06, 2013 7:45 pm

EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE

The following post from long ago appeared in Forum which tempted me to
see what Forum participants think on this subject.
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Post by: Porus
Post: 3403
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

I have heard Sayedna Muhammad Burhanuddin say the following: (it is almost a verbatim translation)

"People say that the Imam is in purdah. I say that he (the Imam) is in my heart. Imam will not physically manifest himself. His glory is perceived in the person of Dai-uz-Zamaan."

It is clear from the above that the Dai now wants his followers to abandon the idea of Imam Tayyeb or his progeny ever re-appearing.

It was always a bit of a stretch to think he would re-appear after an absence of over a millenium. If you understand that a guidance to live your life with a 'profound' purpose, then there are any number of variations on a theme which demands a belief that some God has given you a purpose and your task is to find it.

A sure sign of having found a purpose is that you will experience intense emotion, primarily of joy, in whatever you undertake. Falling and kissing the feet of the Dai-uz-Zamaan is certainly not it. And any resentment you feel in participating in any organization means you are drifting further away from your 'purpose'.

So my brothers, forget the notion that anyone knows what your purpose is. There are no experts in this and no one to go to for guidance. It is within us. Be still and you will find it. Beating your breasts or praying through prophets and imam or Dai will not get you there either.

Bohraism and similar sects are there to glorify their leader and his family, which is against the teachings of Quran and other scriptures. They command you to glorify almighty God, and none other.

Rumi says: "When one abides in Lord, then, what use is the muezzin's call?"
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"The 21st Imam Tayyeb went into occultation and till today his generation is in occultation. The timing of Imam Zuhur will be when the Imam or his progeny from the lineage of Imam Tayyeb would have witnessed slaughter of people, horrendous strife, wars, immorality, poverty, human sufferings, sickness, corruption, dictatorial regimes, etc. He will then appear and guide us back to follow the Quran in all our dealings in life".

The above (Paraphrased) quote is an often-repeated explanation we have heard during Waaz and Majlis. My information is that Imam Tayyeb was elevated to the Imam status by Sayyeda Hurratul Malika. The Imam was two years old at the time. Countless years have passed since this event occurred.

On any given day the media is dominated by reports of wars and killings, Weapons to annihilate the human race are in possession of many of the world's nations, Slaughter of human beings and destruction of properties are daily occurrences. Dictators and corrupt leaders ruthlessly crush revolt or jail dissidents. Mass killings are occurring daily in Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Gaza strip, Mali, Libya, Tunisia, and so on. These are all Islamic countries. The perpetrators are Muslim leaders and Al-Qauida, Hezbullah, Laskar-e-Taiba, Boko Haram, Mahdists, and many ore. The world is today witnessing deaths and strife in Muslim countries never seen before.

I feel that if there is any time at all, now is the opportune time for Imam Tayyeb's progeny to come out of occultation. To what heinous end the Islamic world, Bohras included, should be made to suffer before that person emerges from occultation.

The parallel I would like to draw is on a much smaller but equally ruthless scale that Kothar is exacting on Bohras. Kothar has been boldened in its quest by tactics which we all know are working so effectively. Today Bohras are squeezed for a number of financial dues; Wajebaat, Sabil, Salaam to Dai, Imam, donation for funds for various projects. What Kothar and its wide network of middlemen do with all that money debt is anyone's guess. Adults and young alike are treated with disdain, harsh words, humiliation; all in front of the public. Bohras have lost their self-respect and cringe and crouch when summoned by the local Sheikh or Amil.

I look forward to reading your responses. And please feel free to correct me if my information source does not tally with yours.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#2

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon May 06, 2013 9:18 pm

what response do you expect when syedna taher saifuddin had clearly stated in court during the chandabhai galla case, that the concept of a hidden imam in purdah, although central to dawoodi bohra shia ismaili tayyebi mustaalian faith, is merely that, a concept. it does not mean that an imam exists or any of his progeny exist. what does exist in flesh and blood is the dai, who represents the imam and through him by divine linkage, allah. thus he claimed that he was ilah ul ardh, i.e. allah on earth.

this was clearly spelt out by him in court and he expounded on it in minute detail under expert cross-examination by the govt prosecutor.

now all these statements combined and evaluated mean only one thing. that there is no hidden imam. that the dai claims, ipso facto, by default, that since the imam does not exist, the dai ul balagh does not exist, the hujjatul balagh does not exist (all the officials who came before the dai in hierarchy) then the only religious ex-officio remaining in the field is the dai. it is a tacit and overt admission by taher saifuddin under oath and by syedna burhanuddin that there is no imam. the quote from porus dated 2001 from a bayan of syedna mb took me by surprise. i had never heard or read about it before, but it only serves to strengthen the fact that the dai's themselves do not believe that a physical imam actually walks this earth. all this flowery talk of 'being in my heart' and in communication with the dai uz zaman by ilham etc is mere hogwash, when on the other hand the dai takes pains to emphasise that the noor of the imam is manifested in him. which is much like, heads you lose, tails i win!

this contradiction, dichotomy, merging and division, all in anti-thesis to each other, are cleverly used to subjugate and bully rebellious and restive abdes into submission. any sign of dissent and the amil will thunder, 'su tame imamuzzaman ma mano chho? ena dai ma mano chho?'... and so on. the hapless, ignorant and pissing-in-his-pants abde is so spiritually cowed by this barrage that he has no recourse except to say yes and be slaughtered.

the imam is thus a convenient and sadistic tool to be used, misused and dismissed as required. nay, not just the imam, but even islam has become merely an ace up the sleeve of these dastardly clergy.

badrijanab
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#3

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue May 07, 2013 4:20 am

Syyedina Al Kirmani (r.a.) says: Prophet s.a.w.w. had brought from God profound wisdom. it was incumbent upon him to convey it to those who were in his time and also to those who were yet to come until Qayamat. But those who were in his time were not capable of accepting the entirety of wisdom all at once, nor was it possible for those to come in future to be there in his time, nor was it ordained for the Prophet s.a.w.w. to remain in this world until the end of all people and so convey to them the trust of Allah, so it became necessary for him to appoint a successor (Mola Ali a.s.) to take his place and convey this trust and for his successor at the time of his own demise to designate someone else (Imam Hasan a.s. / Imam Hussain a.s.) to continue to convey the trust of Allah to people.

Syyedina Al Kirmani (r.a.) says: The Prophet s.a.w.w. brought the tanzīl (apperant meaning of Quran) and the Shariyat in Arabic, a language in which a single word, by its being a parable or allegory can lead to diverse and manifold meanings. It is therefore possible to interpret every Quranic verse and every Hadees according to the desire of the interpreter. But this possibility is rejected by the intellect and we see in the Islamic community that each sect argues for the validity of its own sect, interpreting a Quranic verse and a Hadees, in a sense different from the senses held by the others. For example, in the verse: ‘What hindered you from falling prostrate before thatwhom I have created with My two yads’ (Quran 38:75),
1.The Muʿtazila say that ‘two yads’ mean power (qudra) and strength (quwwa),
2.Others interpret them as bounty (niʿma) and favour (minna), and
3.The Mujbīra interpret them as the two hands which form part of the body.

All these interpretations are correct and cannot be rejected, for the word ‘yad’ contains all these meanings. Therefore, either all these meanings which are the esoteric aspects that the word conveys are correct and therefore it is incumbent to know them all; or, only one or two are correct in which case it is necessary to know which ones so as to avoid the others; or, the meaning is other than any of these and the word is used as a simile or parable in which case it is necessary to know the object (mamthūl). If all the meanings of the word are correct, then wisdom necessitates that there should be someone in the community who knowsthe form of wisdom in all of them so that one is not left with only one meaning to the exclusion of the others. All this is necessary so that unity prevails in the community in the worship of God and any differences of opinion are resolved. If, however, only one or two of the meanings are correct, then wisdom necessitates for there to be someone to make such meanings known so that there is guidance and to prevent people from mistaken belief, for without a teacher one cannot distinguish which meaning is most worthy of belief. This, so that controversy and hatred vanishes and unity prevails in the worship of God. And if the purpose of the word is other than the apparent meaning and the word is a simile or symbol, then again wisdom necessitates that someone in the community explain the object (mamthūl) of it so that people do not go astray or believe in that which is not correct. Thus all three possibilities require the existence of someone (i.e. Imam) in the community to guide and teach.

Allah by the command, "If you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it toGod and the Messenger" (Qurʾan 4:59) enjoins upon believers to have recourse to the Prophet in their disputes and indeed they did so on religious matters in his time. But as it was not possible nor was it ordained for the Prophet to remainin the midst of the community for all time so that people could continue to have recourse to him, it became necessary for someone to take his place to make such decisions so that the command of God would endure. He who stands in the place of the Prophet is the Imam.

Allah by the command: "O you who believe! Obey God, obey the Messenger and the ulū al-amr from among you", (Qurʾan 4:59) has enjoined upon believers in one verse three acts of obedience, each linked with one another. It is obvious that obedience to the ulū al-amr is other than obedience to the Messenger and that obedience to the Messenger is other than obedience to God and that one is not accepted without the second nor the second without the third. The address in this verse is to the generality of believers, to those in the time of the Prophet and to those after him, without any distinction. It is absurd to believe that God would enjoin upon His servants obedience to someone whom He has joined in this verse with Him and the Prophet s.a.w.w. if He had not made him infallible like the Messenger. Thus, due to the fact that the address is to the generality of believers, the existence of someone (i.e. Imam) to whom obedience is obligatory upon the community is necessary so that they may fulfil this duty.

محمد
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 12:00 pm

Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#4

Unread post by محمد » Tue May 07, 2013 5:28 am

people need to grow spine and fight for there own honor....and I think this is what IMAM wants.

JC
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#5

Unread post by JC » Tue May 07, 2013 11:01 am

Br Mohammad,

This is exactly what God wants and what Prophet taught ............ Islam, Quran and Mohammad are the LAST religion, Book and Prophet .......... after them God wants YOU to take over and lead and live your life.

There could be teachers and guidance councillors but there is NO LEADER with Divine Powers or Authority.

badrijanab
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#6

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue May 07, 2013 12:19 pm

JC wrote:God wants YOU to take over and lead and live your life.
Prove it from Quran.
JC wrote:There could be teachers and guidance councillors but there is NO LEADER with Divine Powers or Authority.
Prove it from Quran? The opposite of it was proven in Quran in my previous post in this thread.

anajmi
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#7

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 07, 2013 2:35 pm

badrijanab,

Let me show how much a load of crap your post is.
If all the meanings of the word are correct, then wisdom necessitates that there should be someone in the community who knowsthe form of wisdom in all of them so that one is not left with only one meaning to the exclusion of the others.
Where is this someone? Hiding? Not available?
All this is necessary so that unity prevails in the community in the worship of God and any differences of opinion are resolved.
Since there is no unity in the community, we can safely say that no one person has been appointed by Allah. If he had been, then he has failed in his duties miserably!!
Thus all three possibilities require the existence of someone (i.e. Imam) in the community to guide and teach.
hmmmmm...... So where is this Imam again?
Thus, due to the fact that the address is to the generality of believers, the existence of someone (i.e. Imam) to whom obedience is obligatory upon the community is necessary so that they may fulfil this duty.
So where is this Imam again?

There has to be an Imam so we are all united. But since we are not, there is no Imam. If there had been an Imam, we would all be united!! Case closed.

ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#8

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue May 07, 2013 4:35 pm

The brain washing sessions (sabaks) conducted by the Dai and his appointees is well known to everyone but probably what some people don't know is that there are many 'halkas' and the last and final 'halka' is privy to ONLY the ones who are 100% brain washed and ready to accept any and every crap that is dished out to them. In the last and final 'halka' the Dai "Reveals" the ultimate............ i.e. the identity of Imam-uz-zaman and guess who is he ??? It is the Dai himself !!!! This crap is willingly accepted by the final 'halka' sabak goers because by the time they reach the pinnacle they have been so well conditioned and hypnotised that if the Dai orders them to jump from the 20th floor they would willingly follow his command without giving a thought because the thinking power is already seized from them by this time. Needless to say that the sabak goers have to first take an oath of secrecy whereby they are prohibited from disclosing contents of the sabaks. This oath is by way of various 'kasams' starting from Allah (swt) till Panjatan Pak (a.s.).

محمد
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 12:00 pm

Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#9

Unread post by محمد » Tue May 07, 2013 8:33 pm

Common sense needs no proof.

zinger
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#10

Unread post by zinger » Wed May 08, 2013 2:04 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:The brain washing sessions (sabaks) conducted by the Dai and his appointees is well known to everyone but probably what some people don't know is that there are many 'halkas' and the last and final 'halka' is privy to ONLY the ones who are 100% brain washed and ready to accept any and every crap that is dished out to them. In the last and final 'halka' the Dai "Reveals" the ultimate............ i.e. the identity of Imam-uz-zaman and guess who is he ??? It is the Dai himself !!!! This crap is willingly accepted by the final 'halka' sabak goers because by the time they reach the pinnacle they have been so well conditioned and hypnotised that if the Dai orders them to jump from the 20th floor they would willingly follow his command without giving a thought because the thinking power is already seized from them by this time. Needless to say that the sabak goers have to first take an oath of secrecy whereby they are prohibited from disclosing contents of the sabaks. This oath is by way of various 'kasams' starting from Allah (swt) till Panjatan Pak (a.s.).

And you know this because....????

progticide
Posts: 469
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#11

Unread post by progticide » Wed May 08, 2013 4:43 am

anajmi wrote:badrijanab,
Thus, due to the fact that the address is to the generality of believers, the existence of someone (i.e. Imam) to whom obedience is obligatory upon the community is necessary so that they may fulfil this duty.
So where is this Imam again?

There has to be an Imam so we are all united. But since we are not, there is no Imam. If there had been an Imam, we would all be united!! Case closed.
Allah, the most benevolent and merciful, sent His beloved Prophet (SAWS) to guide mankind and He made him rehmatul-alameen and not just rehmatul-muslameen. Now, since the Prophet(SAWS) was made a blessing for the entire worlds, why did he allow slaying of the people who waged war against him and muslims? Was he not made a rehmat for all those aswell since those non-believers that were killed in these wars were also a part of the same world for which the Prophet (SAWS) was made a Rehmat. So why did the Prophet(SAWS) not bestow his rehmat on these non-believers? So now do you say that since rehmat was not bestowed on these non-believers who waged war against muslims, Prophet(SAWS) infact is not rehmatulalameen (Nauzobillah).

So it should be correct to say that the rehmat of the Prophet(SAWS) was for those who wanted to avail of it. Those who chose not to avail of it and not take benefit from it were unfortunate by virtue of their own choice and actions. Just as a pond full of pure and clean water cannot be blamed for keeping a person thirsty if that person choses to sit beside it and yet not drink from it. Similarly the misfortune of the non-believers by virtue of their own actions and deeds cannot discount the profoundness of blessings that Allah awarded to His most beloved Prophet(SAWS).

Similarly, the leadership of the rightful Imam (Ulu al-amr) from the progeny of Prophet(SAWS) through his daughter Maulatena Fatema(AS) and cousin Maula Ali(AS) is permanently present on the face of earth for the Muslims to take benefit of and remain united, at times (during Kashf) directly by the Imamuzzaman himself and at other times(during satr) through the Imam's representative(Dai-ul-Mutlaq) when the rightful Imam is in occultation. But if the Muslims choose to ignore the rightful Imam's leadership, or deny the Imam's right to lead, or deny the office of the Imam itself, or refuse to accept the Imam's representation through the person of his choice; whatever the reasons could be, but if this leads to the denial of leadership of the Imam as the rightful leader of the community, and if this leads to disunity and sectarianism, than this is a shortcoming on the part of the ummah, not the Imam. Thus, making the disunity of the Ummah as an excuse to deny the very foundation and existence of Imamat is an immature and irrational argument in itself.

Therefore, just as it was the misfortune of the non-believers by virtue of their own choice and actions to remain unbenefitted from the blessings of the Prophet(SAWS) and since this cannot discount the profoundness of the blessings that Allah had awarded the Prophet(SAWS) to offer to all worlds; Similarly, it is the misfortune of the ummah by virtue of their own choice and actions to remain disunited by denying the office of Imamat and thus this cannot discount the existence of the office of Imamat per se and thereby the existence of the Imamuzzaman during kashf or satr(through the office of his Dai-ul-mutlaq).


Thus, the Ummah being not united, does not mean the Imam does not exist. The pond is still full of water for those who are willing to drink from it. For those who choose to remain thirsty, the pond cannot be blamed.

zinger
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#12

Unread post by zinger » Wed May 08, 2013 5:02 am

Superbly written Bhai Progticide

Bohra spring
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#13

Unread post by Bohra spring » Wed May 08, 2013 7:34 am

Progi...

How did you link the ideology that Prophet SAw being a blessing for Muslim or gift...and then how does that belief explains of the need and reason for Imam Zaman. ?

Next you use the logic of non Muslims being killed ...but you don't explain the deaths and losses on the Muslim side, what does your understanding rehmat mean in this case ?

The presence of leadership through blood line is a creation of traditions , the fact that several sects claim their imam is authentic raises questions which is the real leadership bloodline . All can not be authentic

and why the need for blood line is required for leadership, ...when the Prophet SAW has no blood line to Prophet Isa SAW or any preceding ambiya..how does bloodline ensure pure leadership ...and which sibling inherits the leadership if it is divinely controlled ?

The Devine intervention to clear this confusion is unknown, if it was that important and big issue surely the creator of our religion would have acted. If he has not acted does it mean it is unimportant ?

If the Muslims of 21 st imam era ignored him during his time , if he was concerned about his safety, 21 st century world is more tolerant, if he or his heir sought refuge in India or USA, he can be given protection like the Dalai Lama for argument sake why can he not come out in open and continue his mission.

Now regarding this pond idea ...we can drink from it if we can find it and take its contents in our hands ...but why bother if it is mirage ...rather than running around looking around for ponds that turn out as mirages..try survival tactics...look for things that can produce water...

This imam idea is to create mysticism , story tales and reinforce the faith Dawoodi need to keep to remain in the fold. It is a excellent idea when logic and reasoning fails.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#14

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed May 08, 2013 7:44 am

progticide wrote: But if the Muslims choose to ignore the rightful Imam's leadership, or deny the Imam's right to lead, or deny the office of the Imam itself,
such a long and dangerous speech (written in blood!) by progticide, full of profound platitudes, but ignoring the fact that taher saifuddin had stated under oath that no imam exists, the belief in imam is central as a founding pillar of our faith, but is merely a concept.

so according to you, o great progticide, in light of your above quote, taher saifuddin was not a muslim, as he has "denied the office of the imam itself" (your quote). that is why he called himself 'ilah ul ardh', thereby eliminating the imam and prophet from the equation completely!! both taher saifuddin and his son burhanuddin have drunk up all the water from that pond of yours so greedily and extensively, that there is no more water left!

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#15

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 08, 2013 9:43 am

Let me repeat my question for the brainless idiots spouting nonsense.

Where is the Imam?

There has to be an Imam so we are all united. But since we are not, there is no Imam. If there had been an Imam, we would all be united!! Case closed.

Now to get back to the nonsense that progticide is posting - The prophet (saw) was available to all who wanted to meet him. We know of instances where jews came and met him, christians came and met him, pagans came and met him. No one had to pay ziyafat to meet the prophet and no one was refused his audience. He sent letters of invitation to Islam to leaders around the world. How many letters has the Dai sent out? Has anyone ever heard from the Imam? The closest person that comes to that description is the Khoja Imam. The Dai cannot be met by any ordinary abde unless he is willing to shed his clothes and go naked in front of the Dai and the rightful Imam is in hiding, unavailable to anyone!! Once again - Case Closed!

badrijanab
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#16

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed May 08, 2013 12:09 pm

anajmi wrote: Where is the Imam?
Imam-uz-zaman a.s. is in concealment.

anajmi
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Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#17

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 08, 2013 12:59 pm

Wow!! That is great information. Thank you for sharing that with us. Now we should all get united!!

badrijanab
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#18

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed May 08, 2013 1:22 pm

Sura Ya Sin, Aayat# 10 says for you: Whether thou (Imam) admonish them (Anajmi and alike) or thou do not admonish them: they will not believe (unite).

anajmi
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Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#19

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 08, 2013 1:27 pm

I have an Imam in concealment in my backyard. If you do not believe in my Imam I will quote Surah Yasin to you

Sura Ya Sin, Aayat# 10 says for you: Whether thou (Imam in backyard) admonish them (badrijanab and abde idiots) or thou do not admonish them: they will not believe (unite).

May Allah forgive me for using the Quran to make a point.

badrijanab
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Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#20

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed May 08, 2013 1:30 pm

anajmi wrote:I have an Imam in concealment in my backyard.
If you have an Imam then why at first place you questioned:
anajmi wrote: Where is the Imam?

anajmi
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Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 08, 2013 1:35 pm

It is very popular opinion that "Ya Sin" is one of the names of the prophet (saw). So we can safely say that this Surah is addressing the prophet (saw) and not badrijanab's fictional Imam (or the Imam in my backyard for that matter)!!

badrijanab
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Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#22

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed May 08, 2013 1:53 pm

Anjami bhai,

Re-read my first post with time stamp: "Tue May 07, 2013 4:20 am" - It has quoations from Quran and with other pertinent points - proves there have to be some authority.

anajmi
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Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#23

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 08, 2013 1:59 pm

your post was decimated. There are always people with knowledge and authority. Your Imam is not around. If I have a question about an ayah of the Quran, can I approach your Imam for clarification? No, I cannot. The only Imam I can approach is the Imam in my backyard. He is accessible only to me, hence, he is of no use to anyone else.

badrijanab
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Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#24

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed May 08, 2013 2:07 pm

anajmi wrote:There are always people with knowledge and authority.
You are know speaking sense. AUTHORITY is the key word. That outrightly negates 1/2/3 - they were not authorized by Prophet - so all who consider 1/2/3 as authority are astrayed.

Your fictional Imam in your backyard - do you claim that Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. has authorized him?

progticide
Posts: 469
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#25

Unread post by progticide » Wed May 08, 2013 2:07 pm

anajmi wrote:Let me repeat my question for the brainless idiots spouting nonsense.

Where is the Imam?
Kamzarf Munafiq,
It is you and your kind who is brainless and knowledgeless.

Asking people on this forum "Where is the Imam?" only exhibits your ignorance of the word of Allah. But then, you were never destined to gain the true knowledge from the Quran. Coz, if it were not so, then you would have got the answer from one of the opening ayats of the Holy Quran itself and there would not have been any need for this argument.


Holy Quran, Surah Baqarah, Ayat 2 [Holy Quran 2:2]

Now, keep scratching your head and bark even louder on this forum and elsewhere since you are never going to understand the true address that the Holy Quran is stating in this ayat. :D

anajmi
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Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 08, 2013 2:22 pm

After all that, are you still struggling to answer my simple question?

Let me repeat it one more time.

Where is the Imam?

Now in Green

Where is the Imam?

Want it in blue and red too?

If you cannot, then read the first 2 words of ayah 2:83, the middle 3 words of 17:2 and last 2 even words of ayah 3:111. And you will know the truth. :wink:

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#27

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 08, 2013 2:24 pm

Your fictional Imam in your backyard - do you claim that Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. has authorized him?
Sure. He is fictional. He has been authorized by everyone!!

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Ekwis ma Imam purdah ma che!

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 08, 2013 2:36 pm

Let me explain this in simple words.

People keep claiming about the existence of this superhuman Imam that is needed for us to understand the message of the Quran, but it is pure BS (pun - bhai saheb is intended).

If you need to understand the Quran, can you go to the Imam? No you cannot. He is in concealment.

Abde idiot progticide will tell you that you have to go to his proxy which is the Dai. Now is the Dai appointed by the prophet (saw)? No he is not, he is appointed by the Imam. So there is a break in the chain right there. There is no one appointed by the prophet to answer your questions.

Then we come to the Dai. If you have a question about the Quran, can you approach the Dai? No you cannot. You will have to pay through your nose to kiss his feet and you still won't get any answers as he is incapable of responding to any questions. You will be told to approach his Amils. Are these Amils appointed by the prophet (saw)? No they are not. So there is another break in the chain.

So you see, doesn't matter how much these people rant and rave about this super human Imam, he doesn't exist. There is no one around directly appointed by the prophet (saw) to help us out. Only we can help ourselves. And how do we do that? Go directly to the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) and when you run into a difficulty approach a knowledgeable person who is available. If the Imam had been available, I would've gone to him and if the Dai wasn't a parasite ready to suck my blood, I would've gone to him.

humanbeing
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Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#29

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed May 08, 2013 2:58 pm

progticide wrote:Thus, the Ummah being not united, does not mean the Imam does not exist. The pond is still full of water for those who are willing to drink from it. For those who choose to remain thirsty, the pond cannot be blamed
The pond of Dai-uz-Zaman is very expensive, only those who can show the moolah gets the sharaf.

The most ununited sects in the muslim world are the shias, who individually claim to be united, what an irony !

Kothari Bohras are the first one to jump to create schism by all means and marketing. Please refer to debates in “verifying the true imam”

If Kothar is really concerned about the unity, then open the platform of dialogue with other communities. Cowards cant make the “nass” and “misaak” public and talks of Umman unity ! huh !

Unity, united, uniform does not come under kothar dictionary, within the community they have created classes and levels on basis of wealth, its ironical for a Kothari agent to talk of unity.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: EKWIS MA IMAM PURDAH MA CHE!

#30

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed May 08, 2013 3:20 pm

progticide wrote: Asking people on this forum "Where is the Imam?" only exhibits your ignorance ..
1. so can you arrange an audience with either syedna burhanuddin (if he is well enough) or his mansoos mufaddal where a group of us can go ask him, "where is the imam"?

we are ready to pay our respects to them in the proper libaas & manner, but money should not come into the picture and there should be no pre-conditions. you have admitted that asking people on this forum exhibits ignorance, i am sure one of the 2 mola's or both will have the answer.

2. we also wish to know where the enormous sums taken from 20 million + bohras every year in the form of imamuzzaman's salam are deposited and held in trust? how much interest has that sum earned?

3. we also wish to know how the dai knows when it is imamuzzaman's salgirah? you see imam tayyeb cannot be alive, so that means we are celebrating the salgirah of the imam of this zaman (from the progeny of tayyeb). have they all been born on the same day without fail? every human being comes into this world at a time and location appointed by allah alone. so how come we observe imam uz zaman's salgirah on a fixed day every year?

4. if we are not satisfied with either mola's answer, can we have everyone's money back? not that we need the money or resent it being in the possession of a dai who himself does not believe that any imam exists, but because we can start social and charitable projects such as housing and business loans for poor bohras in the name of the imam. we will also build a secure house and office for the imamuzzaman and arrange security so that he will be motivated to appear, knowing fully well that he will be safe from murderous kothari mafia, esp. the meetha chaawal zarda's.

i am sure that with your absolute aqeeda + valvalo in your heart, you can arrange this zalzalo of a meeting. we need your help and trust that you will not let us down. after all the future of mankind and bohras is at stake. dont you want to put these silly detractors like anajmi in their place once and for all?