Qutbi Bohras

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Dazzling on Sat May 18, 2013 7:06 am

not a single news of syedna muhammed burhanuddin in any website or any thing what so ever, he might be already dead? :cry:

Inna lillah wainna ilahi rajeun :cry:
Dazzling
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 2:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Sceptical on Sat May 18, 2013 7:36 am

voice wrote:
Sceptical wrote:Letter from Shz QaidJohar Baisaheb to HT .
http://www.its52.com/imgs/1434/newsletters/htletter1.jpg

and another letter :
http://www.its52.com/imgs/1434/newsletters/htletter2.jpg


what`s the need of publishing this letter after so many days? what kothar wants to prove and to whom they want to fool?
It would be more better if they could provide concrete proof of Nass. Secondly, if they could manage to get a statement from Mazoon saheb.


That's exactly what I thought : why they waited so long to publish this letter?
Why has Qaidjohar Baisaheb wrote this? the best way would have been to ask Mazoon to do it... :roll:

In his letter, QJ baiseheb wrote : "No one has ever heard him claim to be the successor of Syedna"
Many people have told me that Mazoon had done it a few years ago in Africa... Don't know if it's true.
Sceptical
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby ghulam muhammed on Sat May 18, 2013 4:56 pm

It seems that HT has still not replied to the letters which means that they are not ready to take back their words, there seems to be no apology from the newspaper also because if any such apologies would have been issued then the same would be flashed on every Kothari website, every bohra masjid and every bohra roza right from raudat tahera to galiakot and burhanpur. There would have been one more 'Fateh Mubin' day !!
ghulam muhammed
 
Posts: 7507
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby SBM on Sat May 18, 2013 6:12 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:It seems that HT has still not replied to the letters which means that they are not ready to take back their words, there seems to be no apology from the newspaper also because if any such apologies would have been issued then the same would be flashed on every Kothari website, every bohra masjid and every bohra roza right from raudat tahera to galiakot and burhanpur. There would have been one more 'Fateh Mubin' day !!

The news cycle is over. This was done by Kothar late as they knew that HT is not going to publish it since this is old news and by sending this email to entire Bohras community all over the world, they want to show guillable Bohras that they did take action and it HT who refused to print their version. In few weeks this story will be history.

Likes: way2go

SBM
 
Posts: 4159
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am
Location: USA

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Bohra spring on Sun May 19, 2013 7:21 am

Sceptical wrote:Letter from Shz QaidJohar Baisaheb to HT .
http://www.its52.com/imgs/1434/newsletters/htletter1.jpg

and another letter :
http://www.its52.com/imgs/1434/newsletters/htletter2.jpg


There is a saying in media fraternity ...journalists are pigs and love to fight in the mud ...when people take on journos they should be prepared to get messy and smelly....

Writing a letter to journalist what amateurish and childish for Qaid Johar and abde secretary...what were they expecting HT to send an apology...HT wanted sizzling news, writing comments by hundreds of adbes , getting attention , they got it...that is what sells media.

How many times does one read a lame story like ...a kid helped an old lady cross the road...

On the other note damage is done to Muffy's credibility . I read SInsaf is getting mention from QJ ....SI you can continue fighting for PDB or join the zada and win the lottery :wink: :roll: (joke)

QJ writes that his uncle Mazoon has no ambitions...where is his uncle's own personal statement in all this drama..and where is SBM in all this drama..both do not want to say it clearly ...there is more to it then they want to admit.

This will be over when Muffy does not see the difference in the ziafats...will this cause a dent in the ziafat demand , presently or in near future...or adbdes have goldfish memory
Bohra spring
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Reporter on Mon May 20, 2013 8:12 am

Apparently Sayedna Saheb is back in Saifee Mahal and Mansoos and Mazun have patched up.
Attachments
letter-saifee-mahal.jpg
Reporter
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:34 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Reporter on Mon May 20, 2013 8:17 am

htletter1.jpg[/attachment]Response to HT article:
Attachments
htletter2.jpg
htletter1.jpg
Reporter
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:34 am

why I think there wont be more splits in bohras

Unread postby Ramakdawala on Mon May 20, 2013 10:34 am

Bismillah...

any person with sane brain knows all this concept of IMAM is just to keep people engaged in hope and fear, and to operate an entire empire without any doubts.so no one is actually real DAI of IMAM any more. nor any such thing called dawat exits. (have u ever seen any dawah going on?)

any ways coming to point, mazoon already knows all world wide property is under name of kothaar and it will be impossible to get hands on any of this palaces,roza or masjids. so I believe he is not at all interested to create a new sect, specially when they know , they will get nothing.

on other hand mufaddal has already gained momentum in recent months by journeying day and night, and trying to convince people that he is true successor.

after all this is all money game, and mazoon knows if he tries to do any thing stupid he will lose cut in this whole scam and might also lose his life.
Ramakdawala
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 10:43 am

Re: why I think there wont be more splits in bohras

Unread postby humanbeing on Mon May 20, 2013 10:57 am

Mazoon is too told to fight kothar, why would he stress his retirement at this juncture. He rather stay quiet and watch the show !
humanbeing
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: why I think there wont be more splits in bohras

Unread postby Ramakdawala on Mon May 20, 2013 11:13 am

humanbeing wrote:Mazoon is too told to fight kothar, why would he stress his retirement at this juncture. He rather stay quiet and watch the show !

in other words he already has sucked up millions of dollars from community and already secured his family in America, Canada and UK.

now he has nothing to lose....


chor naa bhai ghanti chor...
Ramakdawala
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 10:43 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby voice on Mon May 20, 2013 11:38 am

Reporter wrote:Apparently Sayedna Saheb is back in Saifee Mahal and Mansoos and Mazun have patched up.


Mazoon saheb had vacated Saifee Mahal months before and he is not residing in it. This attached letter doesn`t mention his name for once. So, no reasons to believe for a patch up.

Probable chances are that SMB is brought from the hospital just for the purpose of trying to stage a drama of Nass. So as to diffuse the confusion over fabricated Nass.

Till SMB is alive no chance of hearing any word from Mazoon regarding the Qutbi sect.

Likes: JC

voice
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby JC on Tue May 21, 2013 1:12 pm

Is it only that Mazun wants to be 53rd? What about his sons ambitions? They know after Mazun they will be totally out-cast and their share may drastically reduce .......... so they have to work for it. For Muffy it is 'who will be 53rd' but for Mazun's sons it is 'who will be 54th' .......... they have 'money' and next thing they want is 'power' and 'fame' .... so at times urge for power and fame is so much that people are willing to incurr losses ... same is happening with Mazun and Family ......... so it is not all for money only!!

Likes: Bohra spring

JC
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby S. Insaf on Tue May 21, 2013 1:27 pm

An open Letter to Mr. Qaid Johar,

Dear Mr. Qaid Johar,
As-Salam Alekum,
I have gone through your letter to Hindustan Times dated 23rd April 2013 on internet regarding the article (Talk of rift among Bohras over Syedna’s successor).

You say that the article is replete with false information- in particular the following:-i)
“According to historical precedence, the Mazoon is next in line to take the position as leader of the community.”
ii) “While the Mazoon has declared on record that he is the Syedna’s successor, there is no clarity on how much support he has.”
These are completely false![/color]

Dear Mr, it is fascinating to know your knowledge about a Faith you are supposed to profess!
Ever since the high institution of Fatemi Dawat has become a personal asset of your royal family of Sultan and Shahzadas, all its basic principles, morality and spirituality have been lost. It has become a tool in your hand to twist, amend and negate the basic structure to suit your material interests.

Let me describe the history from authentic written books, in brief for refreshing your memory:

As against the tyrant and oppressive rules of Umayyad and Abbasid, the Fatimid Imams had a political agenda to show the Islamic world that good government is possible with strict observance of the doctrine of Islam and they showed it after forming their Fatimid sultanate which lasted only for less than 250 years.
According to Dawoodi Bohra history after down fall of the Fatimid sultanate the propaganda of faith was taken up by the propagandists known as Dais.

From first to twenty fourth Dai, Dais lived in Yemen. Though 14th Dai came down to India and stayed temporarily in Sidhpur. Then from 25th to 42nd Dais kept on moving to Ahmadabad, Jamnagar, Ujjain, Burhanpur as due to persecution by Sunni rulers they remained busy in protection.
But because of British rule in India, the persecution ended and Dawat’s head quarter was shifted to Surat where in 1785 our 43rd Dai, Syedna Abde Ali Saifuddin established “Saifee Daras” and collected on the line of Fatemi lodge, for esoteric teaching and training, Mullahs and Mashaikh.

1. Mullahs were trained to led prayers, perform last rites of dead and tech religion.
2. the degree of Shaikh was conferred on those student who proved to be prominent scholar, distinguished himself in piety, honesty and religious devoutness.
3. Successful and selected Shaikh first elevated to the post of Mukasir, then to the post of Mazoon and then to the exalted to the post of a Dai.

(This can also be confirmed from page no. 32 of Campbell’s Bombay Gazetteer)
I am writing this open letter as now-a-days your location is not known, whether use are in Saifee Mahal or Saifee hospital, Khandala or on foreign trip.
Saifuddin Insaf

3 Likes: badrijanabBohra springFateh

S. Insaf
 
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby WYP on Tue May 21, 2013 1:48 pm

Mr. Insaf,
I am writing this open letter as now-a-days your location is not known, whether use are in Saifee Mahal or Saifee hospital, Khandala or on foreign trip.


Here is the problem with you. In your effort to deliver low blows, you lose your credibility. QJ's mailing address in two countries and an email address is available in the letterhead to Hindustan Times. But I am sure you already knew that.
WYP
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Tue May 21, 2013 6:38 pm

Bhai Insaf,

Since brother WYP has taken the trouble to point out the postal address and email of Qaid Johar, I suggest that you forward the open letter to all his co-ordinates and also have it published in Hindustan Times, so that you can re-establish your credibility and correct your mistake in publishing that open letter on this forum only. It might be wise to also hand-deliver it by courier to Shri Q. Johar and get him to acknowledge receipt of the same.

May I also humbly suggest that you ask Mr. Johar what is the going rate for getting a title of mulla and shaikh today and once such a title is purchased, what are the religious duties of such title-holders? Also what are the chances for a shaikh (of impeccable character) to rise to the position of a mukasir or maazoon in the present times?
Al Zulfiqar
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Location: saifee mahal

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby voice on Tue May 21, 2013 8:40 pm

S. Insaf wrote:An open Letter to Mr. Qaid Johar,

Dear Mr. Qaid Johar,
As-Salam Alekum,
I have gone through your letter to Hindustan Times dated 23rd April 2013 on internet regarding the article (Talk of rift among Bohras over Syedna’s successor).

You say that the article is replete with false information- in particular the following:-i)
“According to historical precedence, the Mazoon is next in line to take the position as leader of the community.”
ii) “While the Mazoon has declared on record that he is the Syedna’s successor, there is no clarity on how much support he has.”
These are completely false![/color]

Dear Mr, it is fascinating to know your knowledge about a Faith you are supposed to profess!
Ever since the high institution of Fatemi Dawat has become a personal asset of your royal family of Sultan and Shahzadas, all its basic principles, morality and spirituality have been lost. It has become a tool in your hand to twist, amend and negate the basic structure to suit your material interests.

Let me describe the history from authentic written books, in brief for refreshing your memory:

As against the tyrant and oppressive rules of Umayyad and Abbasid, the Fatimid Imams had a political agenda to show the Islamic world that good government is possible with strict observance of the doctrine of Islam and they showed it after forming their Fatimid sultanate which lasted only for less than 250 years.
According to Dawoodi Bohra history after down fall of the Fatimid sultanate the propaganda of faith was taken up by the propagandists known as Dais.

From first to twenty fourth Dai, Dais lived in Yemen. Though 14th Dai came down to India and stayed temporarily in Sidhpur. Then from 25th to 42nd Dais kept on moving to Ahmadabad, Jamnagar, Ujjain, Burhanpur as due to persecution by Sunni rulers they remained busy in protection.
But because of British rule in India, the persecution ended and Dawat’s head quarter was shifted to Surat where in 1785 our 43rd Dai, Syedna Abde Ali Saifuddin established “Saifee Daras” and collected on the line of Fatemi lodge, for esoteric teaching and training, Mullahs and Mashaikh.

1. Mullahs were trained to led prayers, perform last rites of dead and tech religion.
2. the degree of Shaikh was conferred on those student who proved to be prominent scholar, distinguished himself in piety, honesty and religious devoutness.
3. Successful and selected Shaikh first elevated to the post of Mukasir, then to the post of Mazoon and then to the exalted to the post of a Dai.

(This can also be confirmed from page no. 32 of Campbell’s Bombay Gazetteer)
I am writing this open letter as now-a-days your location is not known, whether use are in Saifee Mahal or Saifee hospital, Khandala or on foreign trip.
Saifuddin Insaf


So it proves an unchallengeable fact that,
“According to historical precedence, the Mazoon is next in line to take the position as leader of the community.”
voice
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby seeker110 on Wed May 22, 2013 11:18 am

The most learned, honest and most of all "Live like Ali" person should rise to the position of Dai. Ye kiseeke baap ki jagir nahi hai. Whoever lives in a mahal is not a religious leader but a con man. Only haramkhore is raised in Safee Mahal. Remember the Mahal our Nabi lived in. Well, I don't either.
seeker110
 
Posts: 1369
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby pheonix on Thu May 23, 2013 3:46 am

seeker110 wrote:The most learned, honest and most of all "Live like Ali" person should rise to the position of Dai. Ye kiseeke baap ki jagir nahi hai. Whoever lives in a mahal is not a religious leader but a con man. Only haramkhore is raised in Safee Mahal. Remember the Mahal our Nabi lived in. Well, I don't either.

Remember the mahals the Imams lived in. Maybe you won't know that
pheonix
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Bohra spring on Thu May 23, 2013 7:34 am

pheonix wrote:
seeker110 wrote:The most learned, honest and most of all "Live like Ali" person should rise to the position of Dai. Ye kiseeke baap ki jagir nahi hai. Whoever lives in a mahal is not a religious leader but a con man. Only haramkhore is raised in Safee Mahal. Remember the Mahal our Nabi lived in. Well, I don't either.

Remember the mahals the Imams lived in. Maybe you won't know that


Phoenix a good point why did Imams or Dais you mention need to live in palaces ?

Prophet Issa SAW , Mohammad, SAW , Ali AS did not live in palaces yet Imams and Dais who preach live like Ali die like Husain , themselves do not want to live like their Masters ? They had a a choice not to live in palaces.

Note a fort is not a palace.
Bohra spring
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby ammar786 on Fri May 24, 2013 2:41 am

Bohra spring wrote:
pheonix wrote:
seeker110 wrote:The most learned, honest and most of all "Live like Ali" person should rise to the position of Dai. Ye kiseeke baap ki jagir nahi hai. Whoever lives in a mahal is not a religious leader but a con man. Only haramkhore is raised in Safee Mahal. Remember the Mahal our Nabi lived in. Well, I don't either.

Remember the mahals the Imams lived in. Maybe you won't know that


Phoenix a good point why did Imams or Dais you mention need to live in palaces ?

Prophet Issa SAW , Mohammad, SAW , Ali AS did not live in palaces yet Imams and Dais who preach live like Ali die like Husain , themselves do not want to live like their Masters ? They had a a choice not to live in palaces.

Note a fort is not a palace.


Now this fool will teach imam (a.s) and dai (r.a) , how to live and where to live :roll:
ammar786
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Bohra spring on Fri May 24, 2013 9:31 am

amar the phul is not teaching..but what tawil excuse is there to stay in the palace...

this is history so it cannot be chnaged what is the reason..do you know ?
Bohra spring
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Fri May 24, 2013 4:22 pm

pheonix wrote:Remember the mahals the Imams lived in. Maybe you won't know that


the imams who ruled over the fatimid empire were kings besides being religious figures. what kingdom or territory does the syedna have?? is he a king or emperor? if he thinks so, then the prophet and ali presided over a much larger muslim ummah! did they live in palaces and call themselves sultans and their kids as shezaadas and zaadis?

this is the typical defense of ignorant fools and self-serving slaves of the dai like phoenix and his band of crooks. they take what is convenient and discard the supreme examples of the founder of islam and ali, whose shias they claim to be.
Al Zulfiqar
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Location: saifee mahal

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby voice on Fri May 24, 2013 9:46 pm

A well planned rumor is circulated amongst the Bohra masses that with the return of SMB at Saifee Mahal, Mazoon saheb has patched up with mansoos.

I would just like to inform that Mazoon saheb himself had vacated Saifee Mahal and had shifted to USA along with his family members and his followers. Although efforts to sideline him by mansoos camp was done in systematic planned manner but even then he was able to convey the fabrication of Nass in masses and expose mansoos.

We are already seeing the process of unsuccessful clarification by mansoos camp on this matter, it might be that in the coming days more such staged drama of Nass will be displayed.

But the fact is, “According to historical precedence, the Mazoon is next in line to take the position as leader of the community.”
voice
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Bohra spring on Sat May 25, 2013 6:45 am

rumour this and that...if SMB and Mazoon makes a clear statement in own words via video stating whether they honor the Mansoos as the heir will put this scandal to rest...

who will Mansoos make his mazoon ?
Bohra spring
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Sceptical on Sat May 25, 2013 7:38 am

Bohra spring wrote:who will Mansoos make his mazoon ?

I guess one of his brother or son as Mazoon and Badral Jamali as Mukasir... :roll: :wink:
"Power" should remain in family.
Sceptical
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Grayson on Sat May 25, 2013 9:14 am

As we're indulging in a bit of rumor mongering, I'm compelled to give two cents of my own.
I think it would be an intelligent move if Mufaddal bhaisaheb were to declare nuss (openly) on his son, Taha bhaisaheb (his son, not Malik ul Ashtar's son of the same name that people on this forum have confused him with).

Taha's wife is Mazoon's daughter, and thus his son-in-law. She would subsequently take on the powerful position of Busaheba. So any tension in regards to succession issues would likely come full circle.

It helps that from the bits I've heard he's rather involved with the poor and qualified in Fatemi ilm. I think such a move would resolve a lot of internal hostility and perhaps be promisingly progressive Mumineen as well.
Grayson
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby voice on Sat May 25, 2013 11:45 am

Grayson wrote:

Taha's wife is Mazoon's daughter, and thus his son-in-law.


Please confirm, because its mansoos who was son in law of Mazoon saheb and then he had divorce his daughter.
Its a big reason for the rivalry between two camps.
voice
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Grayson on Sat May 25, 2013 12:12 pm

Lol, that happened too. Mazoon's elder daughter was once married to Mufaddal bhaisaheb. They divorced. I'm not 100% certain about this.
Mazoon's younger daughter is currently married to Taha bhaisaheb, Mufaddal bhaisaheb's son. I'm 100% certain about this.
Grayson
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Bohra spring on Sat May 25, 2013 1:06 pm

Wow this is really weird....mazoon and Mansoos related ....son, daughters, first cousins....keep the gene pool intact.

If so the Nass saga is nothing but just entertainment ...any way poor abde...wonder if they should keep hope of change or just accept ...whichever master is still master...slavery will continue.
Bohra spring
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby voice on Sat May 25, 2013 2:26 pm

Well, if the relations between Mazoon saheb and mansoos would be healthy than there would not have been any question over the Nass,

It is certain that Nass was never done by SMB until when he suffered a stroke in London then the whole episode of fabrication of Nass was staged. Mazoon saheb was systematically sidelined and till today his name is never mentioned by mansoos camp.

So, there is big confusion existing among the masses and every effort is done by mansoos to prove his so called Nass. Simultaneously, in all this dispute silence of Mazoon saheb also shows that his relations with mansoos are not healthy.
voice
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Bohras and Reform

cron