How can we help this PDB website

[porus]

My comments are concerned with attracting more Bohras to this site.

I do not object to ignorant musings of anajmi and Muslim First. People like them can be found all over the internet pouring their sectarian scorn.

I suspect very few non-Bohras would actually be attracted to this site. Its educational content appears primarily directed to Bohras. Hence, it would help to attract more Bohras to this site and be conscious of what may put them off.

In the final analysis, it does not matter to me whether they come here or not. The forum is welcome to have anajmi here. He is a feature here and does not seem to be doing anything else with his life anyway.

[SBM]

It seems Br Porus and Br Anjami had made it a personal fight and it would be wise if they both create their own thread on other issues and duke it out. Since Porus does believe that Bohras would be attracted can we RESERVE OUR BOHRAS AND REFORM exclusively to talk about Bohra SOCIAL issues and let every one go to diffreent threads. Since very few Bohras specailly Abdes are intrested in Islamic Learning except given in SABAKS and by Aaamils, they would not be intrested in clicking on ISLAM TODAY so let Anajmi,Porus,MF and others use that for their own personal gratification and use all the space in that area for honoring each other with all kinds of name.
ONCE AGAIN REQUEST TO ANJAMI AND PORUS-DBL-GRAYSON AND ALL SHIA-SUNNI HATERS PLESE LEAVE BOHRAS AND REFORM EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS BOHRA SOCIAL ISSUES ONLY
BUT AGAIN
How can we help this PDB website

[porus]

I have had enough discussions with anajmi and Muslim First. I no longer have any desire to continue on that path. Thank you SBM for your suggestion.

[seeker110]

I know what ice cream tastes like, but I also enjoy mirchoun ka salan ( Hyderabadi style).

[Admin]

Porus,
99% of member registered here are Bohras. The majority come here to browse and read, not just the Forum but other material on the site as well. Yes. we would always want to attract more Bohras but it is wrong to assume that they don't get attracted or get put off because of Shia-Sunni debates. The majority of Bohras suspect that the clergy is up to no good and they come here and see all their suspicion confirmed - with information, knowledge and evidence this site and forum provide. Once that happens what do they actually do? In the majority of cases, nothing. They become aware, they know what is wrong and they know what should be done but they do nothing - for reasons that they in their conscience try hard to justify. Their failure to act is not the failure of this site or the failure of the reform movement. We reformists have in concrete and real terms shown what can be done and can be achieved, it is not possible to shove revolution down people's throat - unless we want export democracy a la United States.
Your beef about Wahabis is valid to an extent. A lot of topics have been diverted and wasted away by this endless debate. Henceforth we are going to be more vigilant and make sure that people remain on topic and discussions do not get hijacked into shia-sunni rabbit hole. As we said before, we are committed to providing a forum for free discussion and only hope that people will use this freedom with responsibility, mutual respect and tolerance for each others views.

[Humsafar]

So the Ugly Sunni Snakes will carry on slandering our faith...

The moment you put your sorry hand in your pocket to shell out the money to corrupt mullahs you are slandering your faith, the moment you submit to tyranny and do nothing about it you're slandering your faith, the moment you accept this corrupt Dawat and willy-nilly become part of it and becomes its enabler you are slandering your faith. You just have a superficial idea of faith, to you it is a set of beliefs that you have been brainwashed with and now you feel you have the divine onus to defend them. In your understanding faith has nothing to do with ones action. For you it is enough to believe in Ahlul Bayt but not to be touched by their principles and their ideals. What kind of faith is this? What kind of faith are you defending? It is just an empty shell devoid of substance. Before even sunnis appear on the scene you have all your life been slandering and traducing your faith, you simple-minded ignorant fool!
If you really cared about faith and shia beliefs and glory of Ahlul Baty you would not even for one second stand for the travesty of that faith which this Kothar represents. But no, you pay up because you can afford to, but your tortured heart bleeds for the poor Indian bohras in the boondocks. Do you realise what full garbage you are. This is what your faith teaches you, this is what the example of Imam Hussain teaches you? You must have heard countless times how the Imam stood up to Yazid and paid the ultimate price. Have you learned nothing from this and have just been shedding crocodile tears over the tragedy and beating your chest for show? If Imam Hussain wanted he could have made excuses too, but his faith would not allow him to do that. Your faith also does not allow you to submit to tyranny. But does it matter to you? No. Instead what you do is shamelessly come here and bawl like a baby that this site is not doing anything - for you. What have YOU done genius? If not for your self-dignity at least do something for the sake of your faith. Don't live in the illusion that your faith can exist apart from you action. If you do then you are doomed for sure but you will have also sinned against your faith and God.

[bohra_manus]

The Forum "Bohras and Reform" should be limited to discussing Bohra issues only.
Any other discussion should be deleted.
Br. Porus please keep posting, you bring a lot of knowledge and wisdom to this forum, thank you.

[Al Zulfiqar]

I, him, you, Al Z, Wise_guy, SBM etc are all in the same boat really. none of us REALLY have the courage to do much except offer a bit of token resistance now and then..... probably these is precious little you can do against the establishment.

zinger,

your arrogance and presumption is mind-boggling! what the hell do you know about any of us that you make such stupid conclusions? there are many on this forum who know me personally and will vouch for my credentials and standing. talk about yrself and your lack of spine and refusal to lay the blame for all the corruption, nepotism, loot and tyranny at the door of the person who claims to be our ilah ul ardh, ghaib na maalik and roohani shafiq bawa.

its treacherous fence-sitters like you who are the biggest danger to the reformist movement. on the one hand you mouth support for the reformist cause and show hypocritical sympathy with the exploited, and in a complete about face, drool with love for a dai who leads this increasingly tyrannical establishment while he indulges in shikar, loots the community, pays lip service to fool simpletons like you, propagates false mojizas about his powers and encourages sajdas to himself!

we have seen enough of your courage to understand that it is only limited to calling others all sorts of epithets, which sub-consciously only describe and reflect on yourself. do not even dream of bracketing cowards and double-faced traitors like you with me or people like sbm.

[ghulam muhammed]

When members raise concerns over some sunnis hijacking threads they deliberately choose to omit badrijanab who is famous for diverting almost every thread into shia/sunni feuds and bringing 1,2,3, into discussions when they are least needed. It is people like him who 'Instigate' the sunnis into entering debates which are meant for bohra reforms.

[anajmi]

The entire shia-sunni debate angle raised by people over here is nothing but an excuse to cover their ignorance. When their beliefs are challenged, they hide behind - "this is shia belief and is justified and authenticated in the Quran". If you ask for that proof, you will be labeled as a sunni/Wahhabi and now, the debate is suddenly a shia sunni debate. I have been seeing this modus operandi on this forum for 10 years. And it doesn't matter whether you are talking to an ignorant fool like db-lol or more knowledgeable people with similar short comings.

[Al Zulfiqar]

i agree with bro gm about people like badrijanab. i have publicly admonished him about this on this forum. he is a narrow-minded bigot with a one point agenda and a single track mind, all the while blowing his trumpet of 'pristine bohra' and the only select community to enter paradise.

he deliberately baits the anti-shia and is as responsible for diverting threads into nonsense as those whom he provokes.

[humanbeing]

DB-L & Other Bohra readers
What are the small or big changes in your life that you have bought upon visiting this forum or through intellectual / educated conscience. Specially dealing with Kothar and their oppressive tactics.

My changes are :

I have stopped paying unjustified amounts of money in name of Wajebat.
I have stopped worshipping photos of Sayedna
I have stopped bending and kissing “Royal Family” feet
I demand proof, accounts and statements when mullahs come to me for donations.
-----------------------------------
I responsibly spend my wealth, I track it when spent in name of zakat, I get involved in helping another soul ( regardless of their faith)

I avoid going for holiday ziyarats instead choose to spend it wisely over my own future or someone in need ( education, medical or sustenance)
PS : I m not blowing my own trumpet, just putting across a point. !
---------------------------------------
Spiritually, my beliefs and namaz are between me and allah, I respect, appreciate and thank those who taught me to pray and introduced me to Allah. But not worship them. Ahlulbayt are guiding IDEALS ! not IDOLS !
-----------------------------------------------
Once again, this forum is doing what it can, question is what are you doing ? list them down DB-L, I m not cornering you ! just asking a lot of fence sitters ! you don’t need an army of educated wealthy bohras, everyone with right conscience are doing their bit.

Wherever there are fools with lot of money, kothar will exist (thrive). Moment you stop kothar from oppressing you, the whole bohra world will look different, and you will not feel fleeced !

[SBM]

I wouldn't get too carried away Brother Bohra Spring, the Kothar aren't worried at all about this place, nor is there any reason they should be. Very few people post here and there is hardly any activity whatsoever! Nothing has changed in all the years it has been around.

From what I've seen, all this place seems to be is a rumour-mill. It's also a haven for Sunnis to come and trample all over Shia beliefs.

Admin, if you want people to donate money (which this place sorely needs) then you've got to get rid of all the Non-Shias. You've also got to take part more in the discussions and answer peoples questions. This place is far too complacent and desperately needs direction.

by asad on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:24 am
If people have any doubt on this forums reach and impact and how much it has affected Kothar than this should suffice them that all kind of wierd Mojizas doing rounds on message groups have completely stopped. all kind of free advertisement of Mansoos and his powers has been affected due to this very forum only. No more waez inputs, news or pictures are being forwarded by people due to farman from Alvazarat to not do so.

asad

Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

[Ozdundee]

This website is an important tool of the reform , rebellion. It is not the movement or the robot that will do the change for us. It will not pop out of the screen and fight our battles, we have to use the information and use our minds and conscience to stand up and get rid of the diseases affecting our society. Until we our selves live a reformed life and life style that is the true measure of success. That is one convert down then we can discuss how we can reform our neighbour, friends or relatives. Until we look at the Amil eye to eye and not bow in submission have self dignity there is no point in becoming a soldier for others. Hence don't overestimate or underestimate the site. This site is just a powerful website that has blogs, knowledge and history. The power is in your self and mind.

We on this site record events, share, discuss and suggest ideas.

If critiques think that they judge the success or failure of the movement by judging the site are mistaken. The real measure of success is how this site has influenced commoners, affects around the community. The site provides information and clears propaganda . It is not perfect sure , but it is good enough, can it be better sure it can, for now it is good enough.

I know I have understood more about Bohraism from this site than I have ever got by listening to an Amil in my 30 years.

I know the admin has decided not to declare but it is not hard to imagine that a site run on 5-10 thousand dollars has given access to so much information and scared the multi million dollar abde machinery ? It was a David and Goliath situation .

[zinger]

I, him, you, Al Z, Wise_guy, SBM etc are all in the same boat really. none of us REALLY have the courage to do much except offer a bit of token resistance now and then..... probably these is precious little you can do against the establishment.

zinger,

your arrogance and presumption is mind-boggling! what the hell do you know about any of us that you make such stupid conclusions? there are many on this forum who know me personally and will vouch for my credentials and standing. talk about yrself and your lack of spine and refusal to lay the blame for all the corruption, nepotism, loot and tyranny at the door of the person who claims to be our ilah ul ardh, ghaib na maalik and roohani shafiq bawa.

its treacherous fence-sitters like you who are the biggest danger to the reformist movement. on the one hand you mouth support for the reformist cause and show hypocritical sympathy with the exploited, and in a complete about face, drool with love for a dai who leads this increasingly tyrannical establishment while he indulges in shikar, loots the community, pays lip service to fool simpletons like you, propagates false mojizas about his powers and encourages sajdas to himself!

we have seen enough of your courage to understand that it is only limited to calling others all sorts of epithets, which sub-consciously only describe and reflect on yourself. do not even dream of bracketing cowards and double-faced traitors like you with me or people like sbm.

apne ghar mein chuha bhi sher hota hain.... stop shouting so much and so something more constructive to help this community reform itself than sit and bitch

[zinger]

DB-L & Other Bohra readers
What are the small or big changes in your life that you have bought upon visiting this forum or through intellectual / educated conscience. Specially dealing with Kothar and their oppressive tactics.

My changes are :

I have stopped paying unjustified amounts of money in name of Wajebat.
I have stopped worshipping photos of Sayedna
I have stopped bending and kissing “Royal Family” feet
I demand proof, accounts and statements when mullahs come to me for donations.
-----------------------------------
I responsibly spend my wealth, I track it when spent in name of zakat, I get involved in helping another soul ( regardless of their faith)

I avoid going for holiday ziyarats instead choose to spend it wisely over my own future or someone in need ( education, medical or sustenance)
PS : I m not blowing my own trumpet, just putting across a point. !
---------------------------------------
Spiritually, my beliefs and namaz are between me and allah, I respect, appreciate and thank those who taught me to pray and introduced me to Allah. But not worship them. Ahlulbayt are guiding IDEALS ! not IDOLS !
-----------------------------------------------
Once again, this forum is doing what it can, question is what are you doing ? list them down DB-L, I m not cornering you ! just asking a lot of fence sitters ! you don’t need an army of educated wealthy bohras, everyone with right conscience are doing their bit.

Wherever there are fools with lot of money, kothar will exist (thrive). Moment you stop kothar from oppressing you, the whole bohra world will look different, and you will not feel fleeced !

Hi HB, very, very gladdened to read what you wrote. you have given us some ideas that we did not think of. kudos to you. i must say, it DOES take a lot of courage to ask for accounts, but one must take into account that a lot of the money collected at the jamaat level is for the basic upkeep and maintainence of the jamat.

but even then, all in all, great going, all the best

[humanbeing]

but one must take into account that a lot of the money collected at the jamaat level is for the basic upkeep and maintainence of the jamat.

Thanks Zinger !
Many Sheikhs and Amil’s Lackey’s roam around and approach commoners to contribute to some scheme now and then, also they use personal / business contacts to cajole out “Hoobs”
Every meeting with Amil requires donation of some sort apart from flattering salam money. I put a stop to all of those, from my side as well as convinced my close family members also. This simple act did not require any revolt, forming of an army or collective might of educated bohras. It was a simple but firm stand against kothar’s weightage of money with walayat.
My questions to mullahs and sheikhs are simple and polite, I see them fuming and dancing in disgust when accountability is asked. I seek interest in the projects they come up with, I demand blue prints, legal papers, presentations, team size, location and other details. If they can present it, I donate, if they cant, I show them the door ! Very Politely !
-----------------------------------------------------
Waiting for DB-L to respond with his laundry list of reformative action !

[anajmi]

What happened to db lol? lol!

[seeker110]

Ya rub iss raste ko manzil tak pohnchaa.

[Bohra spring]

What methods of sending funds are available other then paypal ?

How can a donor remain anonymous ?

[think]

money collected at local jamaat level is not for the upkeep and maintainance of the jamaat. very little of that money is used for the purpose.
most is snatched away by the zada on his trip ,the local Amil fills his pockets and finally the goonda committee and the scretary enjoy the loot. Only simple minded mumineen think it is used for the upkeeep of the local markaz and they should give more because there is barakat. Least do they realize that it is misused by the local Amil and his goonda committee.

[SBM]

How can we help this PDB website financially?

[Qutbi-Hero]

we should do this, we should do that, we should gather people, we should achieve blah blah and blah.. it sounds as if you want to sit on the sidelines and ... you guessed it, PONTIFICATE!! LOL.

Zulfi, Zulfi, Zulfi, Lol, Lol, Lol! Lets see now, I am saying we should do something significant, and you are arguing that we shouldn't - Super Lol!

It's especially funny coming from you, when you are the Pontificator Par Excellence! What else have you done here (with your self-important Bold Green posts) apart from make sarcastic cracks about the Bohra Community, which have achieved absolutely nothing at all. Have you ever thought of doing something other than just sit on the sidelines spouting Bold Green blah blah blah? Dude, like that famous line from the Godfather... we are both part of the same hypocrisy lol...

and your reason for not doing anything substantial yourself is...? because you are scared shit and disgusted of sunni snakes! does that sound faintly like an excuse? hmmm.. i wonder...

Scared of Sunni Snakes... me? LOL! Although I have to say my kids are terrified of them, after all, have you seen how Ugly some of them are!
"Papa look, there's a horrible monster sitting over there"
"No beta, it's just a Wahhabi eating a Falafal"
Lol, Lol, Lol!!!

Ya see Zulfi, it is precisely these Sunni Snakes which are keeping Reformist Bohras away from the forum, which is why we will never gain enough numbers to make any real change. As long as the Snakes are allowed to remain here, the Kothar will continue to win - is that what you want? Really?

Anyway, seeing as you're such a Hero, do enlighten me as to how You have done anything substantial for the Community? Last time I checked, the Kothar were still in power - and they don't seem to have become any weaker due to your Bold Green Pontifications...

so all your education, intelligence and social networks, wealth and oh-so-superior action plan consists of ...doing what? NOTHING, except lecturing others, while you pay up shit and then justify it to yourself saying i pay because i can afford to do so!!!

And what have you done SuperMan? I'm guessing you have left the Bohra Community and so think you are some kind of Genius now, lol!

I hate the Kothar BUT I do not hate my Community or my Shia Faith (unlike you?) which is why I stay. For me, this is part of the struggle, I am willing to remain on the battle-field and fight - whereas you have decided to run away like a Coward, yet you pathetically think you are being Brave LOL! Tell me Zulfi, what have you gained by leaving, apart from having some extra money in your bank account and a belly full of anger and bitterness? I think you do still consider yourself a Shia, or am I mistaken about that?

we have had many like you over the years, full of arrogance, self-importance and inflated with a sense of superiority. you sit around on your arse and do nothing, except whine and complain. your pet excuse for inaction is the sunni angle.

Firstly, I have been away for a while (by the way Eid Mubarak to you!) so have been checking out some recent threads and was impressed to see you make a couple of posts criticising the Sunni Snake Anajmi yourself - yet here you are getting all uppity with me for doing the same lol!

Secondly, all you do here my friend is exactly what you have accused me of - try re-reading your posts again and you will see they are nothing more than arrogant, self-important, whining and complaining! You are the expert in this pursuit, I am merely an amateur compared to you lol!

If you ever decide to get off your arse (and your computer keyboard lol) then do let me know, I will gladly join you in a valiant real world revolution - I'll even dress up in bold green clothes if you want lol!

in your own words, this site is irrelevant, no one comes here and it doesnt matter. pray why then are you wasting your valuable time here?

Well, it wasn't until I joined the place that I realised this. I originally came here after I heard about the passing of the great Mr Engineer, I was hoping he would have been an active poster here and wanted to read his thoughts - I haven't found his posts here so would be grateful if you could give me some links.

Now as to your claim, once again, the exact same question could be asked of you - why are you here Zulfi? Do you think sarcasm will bring down the Kothar lol? Do you think there is a single thing you have ever said, that most Bohras don't already know? Do you think that by making your (admittedly very witty) posts you are somehow Reforming the community, or are you just venting your own bitterness and frustration for your personal satisfaction?

do you have even .001% energy and guts to start your own website where no sunni will be allowed to enter and reforms will tumble out at the rate of a dozen a day and the kothar will tremble, pissing in its hijaars?

Here's an idea for you SuperMan - why don't you set up your own website called LetsHateBohras.com - it would more accurately represent your opinions because you are certainly not someone who loves the Bohra Community and wishes for it to be Reformed, are you?

Also, don't feel that you need a lot of energy or guts to set up a website - they are actually extremely simple and easy to get going and the ongoing cost is pretty much peanuts.

I look forward to you doing this Zulfi - and I'm sure you'll be inviting Anajmi to join, right? LOL!



Live Like Ali, Die Like Hussain

[Qutbi-Hero]

DB Londoner,
Please give some concrete plans as to how we can improve this "place".

I already have big guy - read my posts above again. Let me reiterate Step One for you once more - remove all Anti-Shias!

We welcome criticism but with the tone and attitude you have been employing it would be better if it were a little constructive.

Constructive is all I am - but it seems being constructive is against your religion lol.

With a little more than 100 posts, less than a month since you joined this forum

I must apologise for having such a low post count - unlike Anajmi I have a social life and a sex life, so can't spend all my time on the internet like a loser/looser lol.

and without, as one commentator aptly said, having ever "lifted a finger to change your miserable situation" you're going to sit in judgement on our commitment and our success?

Yes I am. Why, is that against the law? Is criticism not allowed in the Reform Movement? I should add that my "miserable situation" as you put it, could be remedied very easily by being a coward and simply walking away from the Bohra Community - I have no intention of doing that as I explained to Zulfi above...

It is you who cravenly pay up whatever obscene sums of money is demanded of you and not a peep comes out of you,

Trust me, there are lots of peeps coming out lol! However I pay, as do all Bohras, because we gain far more than we lose. The tragedy is that this is not how it should be - which is why we are fighting to purge the rampant corruption that has taken over.

and you have the temerity to come here, hide behind this forum's anonymity,

Calm down big guy, you are also hiding behind the same anonymity aren't you your majesty! Atleast with me there is something you do know, I am a genuine DB and I am from London - what does anybody know about you?

The many rumours about this place being just a "Sunni Front" (which you have solidified by your refusal to remove Sunni Snakes) could be dispelled if you showed your face. You obviously have left the Bohra Community so it would have no impact on you personally if people knew who you are. It would also be worthwhile for you to drop the "we" and just say "I" as it's obvious you are running this place alone. Honesty will bring credibility to this place, which sadly, it has very little of at present.

How about this for an idea - why don't you set up a YouTube channel and personally make regular videos about what is happening in the Reform Movement - I'm sure you know there are many videos out there already but it would be nice to have a dedicated channel to keep everybody informed and updated. Not only would it help raise awareness and the profile of this forum, if you gain YouTube Partnership, it would also generate a revenue stream for you to invest back in to this website - which was the original topic of this thread lol!

use its freedom which you can't find anywhere else,

Come on man! Every Bohra in the world complains about the Kothar 24/7 - its all we talk about on the Thaals lol! Please don't become conceited in thinking you are miraculously providing (a couple of dozen people!) some kind of freedom which is impossible to find elsewhere. What you are providing is merely an online version of the same freedom we have at home.

and shamelessly pontificate about our failures!!!

Well somebody's gotta! If you were truly dedicated, you'd want to fulfil the IMMENSE potential a place like this has. Instead you are quite happy seeing it achieve very little. There millions of Bohras out there - yet all we have here is Two Dozen posters (most of whom are not even Bohras lol!)

Apart from your disgruntlement with the Kothar what is your understanding of the reform movement, its agenda and its history?

My opinion is (like I've stated above) the same as the late and great Mr Engineer. I would love for you to give your idea of what you think the Reform movement is, because it is clearly not in parallel with Mr Engineers view.

What is your commitment to the reformist cause? You're no more than a frustrated Bohra trapped in your pathetic situation, unable to do anything about it and now with this forum have found an outlet for your pent-up feelings.

Like I've said - if I wanted to leave the Bohra Community, it is quite simple and easy. However I choose to stay and help it Reform. This is very different to the likes of Anajmi, and Zulfi and it appears You, who have run for the hills - yet strangely still keep tabs on us Bohras? Why? If you have left, then go on your merry way and be happy! Don't waste your time coming back and whining about everything under the sun!

Also, no Bohras have pent up feelings at all - we all complain to our hearts content lol!

You rightly quote Asghar Ali Engineer regarding human resources. By the way, that human resource includes you. Unless humans like you grow a spine and become resourceful and useful to the community - and have the ability to do more than just come here and dump at a place

What is it that ANYBODY (including you) do here, apart from dump! Mr Engineer did much more than just post on a website - we should all try and follow in his foot-steps, most of all You, Don Admin.

which is at least doing something to change things around - human resources cannot be developed.

Firstly - please do highlight what you feel this forum has done to "change things around" as I've yet to see anything out in the real (Bohra) world...

Secondly - Human Resources can only be developed if you have those Human Resources here! Your insistence on keeping Anti-Shia elements on this forum has ensured, and will continue to ensure, you never gain those resources to develop. If rumours are to be believed, perhaps that is your goal?

You call yourself educated and intelligent but what you've displayed so far here is arrogance, stuck-up self-importance and general ill-breeding.

Nope - that would be (your best buddy!) Anajmi who calls people Kafir. This doesn't seem to bother you in the slightest, yet me calling him a Snake is apparently terribly uncouth!

In fact, of the handful of Shias on the website, it seems most have also complained about the King Cobra - its not just me! Yet you keep Anajmi here almost like a teachers pet! Makes you wonder if maybe you and him, are one and the same person - would explain your respective post counts lol! Who knows for sure about anything on the internet eh...

You have no basic decency or sense of gratitude.

Go back to my earliest posts and you will see how polite and friendly I was - UNTIL I met the resident Anti-Shias! Therefore I have now assumed the position of being an Anti-Sunni in order to bring some balance to the proceedings. If people don't like me ridiculing Sunni beliefs, then those people should refrain from ridiculing Shia beliefs - better yet, those Sunnis should realise they don't belong here and go join one of the countless Sunni forums on the web...

As for being grateful? What do you want from me? A Salaam with an envelope full of cash like the Kothar always expect? Hang on, maybe you're not Anajmi, you're actually an AmilSahab lol!

Ever since you have joined this forum you have been dumping on this forum, demanding results and action as if you were a veteran of reformist struggle and had sacrificed life and limb fighting the Kothar and are now at the end of your long career and are frustrated with lack of results.

Incorrect - I have argued that Anti-Shias have no place in the Reform Movement and are sabotaging the process of gaining Human Resources. I have also outlined ways in which this Movement can progress. In return, the response from you and the others here has been utterly defeatist and undermining. It's almost like all of you vehemently do not want to achieve anything - and will mock anyone who thinks otherwise lol!

It's okay though, now I know that all this place wants to achieve, is pointless idle chatter - I will follow suit and add to the pointless idle chatter. I may even start making my posts in Bold Green lol

Do you realize how Quixotic you appear with all your pointless fulminations?

Do you realise how pointless this forum is? Or do you feel the Kothar has been brought to its knees over the past 10 years, thanks to you? Why not wake up and small the coffee my friend - the Kothar still reign supreme. We are nothing more than a joke to them...

Your paranoia about sunnis - and your obscene name-calling - is nothing more than misplaced frustration.

No - it is logical and justified, and I am far from the only person here who feels these Anti-Shias (not Sunnis) should be removed. I suppose you could try a little experiment, by banning them temporarily for a year or so, then see if it has a positive or negative impact - you don't know until you try...

If you were really serious about reforms, about changing this place for the better your attitude would have been different right off the bat.

I feel precisely the same about you my friend - as the Admin here, you don't seem at all serious about Reform or changing the place for the better and worst of all, take very little part in the discussions taking place here. We all have jobs to go to and lives to lead, everybody is busy these days (well except Anajmi lol) yet the few people here make the time to contribute - I just cannot understand why you have so little commitment to your own website?

You wouldn't have come here swinging like a prima donna demanding revolution.

Ninja Please! My swinging has been against Anajmi and MF, and against you for keeping them here! As for revolution, well you must be happy with the status-quo if you don't want one...

Reform in socio-religious set up like ours is a slow process. Unless people's minds and attitudes change nothing can happen.

Exactly! My wife often says that it took the Kothar a century to rise in power, and it will take a century for it to fall in power. The question is, are you and this forum aiding this slow and steady process? You probably think it is helping, but I can categorically tell you that is isn't, which is a great shame...

And this is what this forum and site are doing. It's primary function is to provide information, spread knowledge about our faith and history, awaken Bohras to the reality of how the Kothar is violating principles of Islam and Fatimid faith and taking them for a ride.

That's music to my ears! Now go the whole nine yards and remove the people who ridicule the Fatimid faith. Stop trying to "pretend" you're taking the moral high-ground by allowing "free and open" expression - you are foolishly defeating your own objective and showing yourself to be a hypocrite.

You've said this is a Shia forum for followers of the Fatimid faith - now act upon it, indeed prove it...

This site provides a free and independent forum for Bohras to come and discuss issues and ideas.

Even more beautiful music! So why do you allow Non-Bohras here!

It also allows discussion on Islamic issues to broaden our understanding of Islam and its history. We want discussion to take place in a spirit of tolerance and mutual respect.

Really? Of the now ELEVEN THOUSAND posts by Anajmi, very few speak in the "spirit of tolerance and mutual respect" - my reaction to him (which you think is obscene) is nothing compared to the disgust any and every Fatimid feels, when they see his (unfettered) presence on the forum...

Of course, that does not always happen, but that lack of tolerance is as much among Bohras as it is between shias and sunnis.

True, but you seem to forget that this is, in your own words, a Bohra forum - therefore we quite rightly should not have to defend our beliefs, whether in the spirit of tolerance or not...

Ask yourself why there are more Sunnis here than Shias? Please do show me any other Religious forum on the entire world wide web, which is dedicated to one school of thought, yet has a majority of posters and posts, from the opposing school...

Although Bohras and Reform is the mainstay of this forum we want to continue to provide platform for free discussion on Islam in general. You have a choice not to participate in that discussion.

The fact that so many Anti-Shia discussions exist, is the reason why you have no Human Resources here. It's the choice you have made, and evidently a choice you won't reconsider.

The objective of this site is not to start or develop a revolution. It is a meeting place for Bohras to come and speak their mind.

Okay - so you want people here to come and talk...

Many have done over the years, and many have left not because this site had nothing to offer but because they had nothing to offer to the site or the reformist cause.

Right - so you want people to do more that just talk? Interesting...

Most of them like you did not have the courage to do anything about it, they were humans but did not have resources.

Even more interesting - please expand on what you think we should do and what you consider are resources - by which I mean, what can be done to Reform the community NOT just leave the community!

As mentioned above the idea was to create a free space where Bohra can have their say. The problem is that like you most of them can only talk. The few who persist actually walk the talk.

You are so confused that it's almost comical my friend. You say the forum is for people to talk the talk, then you say that people should do more and also walk the walk, then when I say we should walk the walk, you get all tense and say I'm being arrogant lol!

I don't know who you are Admin, where you live, what your education is, what you do for a living - but it's pretty clear that you have never Reformed anything in your life - whether that is in a minor or major sense, whether in the business world or academic world or anything at all. This explains why you are so clueless about how to proceed and why you have achieved so little thus far.

In a way, I feel sympathy for you, indeed I understand now why your judgement is so flawed - it's simply due to lack of experience.

And some of them even chip in financially sometimes to support the cause.

You just have to say the word and many people will donate (including myself) - you do however need to show what you intend to do with the money and how it will help the cause. Otherwise you're just asking for cash with no accountability or transparency, just like the Kothar do!

Being free is very important to us because what Bohras lack is freedom - freedom of conscience and freedom of mind.

Not really. Bohras quite happily live a dual life - one where they outwardly show respect to the Kothar, and the other where they insult and make fun of the Kothar lol. We are only "prisoners" when we set foot on the Kothars "turf" lol.

Being free and successful are not mutually exclusive, your juxtaposition of two as one or the other is a fallacy.

Nonsense. You are just covering for the fact that you have absolutely no direction. You have no idea where you are going or what you want to do. Your forum is virtually empty and is nothing more than a minor nuisance to the Kothar. Please don't try and paint this place as some kind of glowing victory, it's genuinely painful to see someone act so disconnected from reality...

This forum has been successful in changing the minds of many people.

No it hasn't my friend. All you are doing here is preaching to the choir. Abdes are still Abdes, and Reformers are still Reformers, nobody has changed their mind about anything. (Oh and Shias are still Shias, despite the never-ending efforts of the Snakes lol!)

People have come here and learned a lot, about their religion and about Islam and also about the egregious violation of Islam by the Kothar.

The violations of the Kothar are very well known and talked about constantly by most Bohras already - like I said above, all this place does is give people one more platform to regurgitate the same old complaints.

What this site offers is information, knowledge and a place for free discussion.

It will be interesting to see how far you take this policy of "free discussion" considering how critical I have been of you! If you do decide to ban me, I would be grateful for 24 hours notice beforehand - that way I can make one final farewell post to all my beloved Sunni Snakes! I trust you will show me the kindness of offering a condemned man, a last meal lol.

It is not designed to organize people - form an army - and start a revolution. That was not the objective or the intention.

I understand this now, and will stick to just pontificating like my mentor Zulfi lol - it is a shame though, you could do so much more if you had the talent and ambition...

Still, on a positive note - I'm sure this is just the first of many future efforts. As the years and decades pass, there will be other forums created, run by more dedicated Admins, which will help further the cause to its full and beautiful completion. It may take a whole new generation (most probably my own kids!) and another 50 years, but Reform will most surely come - and it will be due to the people who DID organise and DID form an army and DID start a revolution. You know I speak the truth, whether you like it or not.

Of course, we could do more if we had more resources - especially human resources

Yet you do not wish to gather them, in fact you actively turn them away! You are a fool Admin. Hopefully you will see the light someday soon, but after a decade of treading the same tired and ineffective path, I doubt it very much...

but despite all the resources in the world we don't think we can export revolution

History clearly shows you are wrong. Besides if drastic and radical change is not what you want or expect, then what is that you do expect? Do tell...

or put courage in your heart or plant a spine in your stooped back

My back is not stooped and my courage is plain to see - I am STILL a member of the Bohra Community while the rest of you have departed! None of you could face the struggle and so took the easy way out. You have in no way Reformed the community - all you have done is turned your back on the community. and hilariously think you are somehow superior to everyone now lol!

Without courage and action on part of Bohras nothing can be and will be achieved.

The same could be said of you and this forum as a whole...

Ask not what this site (reform movement) can do for you
Ask what you can do for this site (reform movement)

What has this forum done for you Admin? What have you done for this forum? (apart from set it up!)

Thank you.

Ya know dude, even though I strongly disagree with you, I still (begrudgingly!) respect you. I'd love to meet you in person and perhaps sit down over a meal and have a long conversation. Are you in the UK by any chance, do you travel here at all? Lets talk face to face like gentlemen sometime, instead of just arguing over the internet like teenage kids lol - that is, if you are willing?

Anyway, that's enough "free discussion" for one day lol - please do give my regards to Anajmi and don't forget to remind him how Ugly he is! (Oh and throw in plenty of "lols" as it seems to make him even Uglier, lol and double lol!)

Belated Eid Mubarak to everyone (except Anti-Shias!) - Peace Out Brothers & Sisters!



Live Like Ali, Die Like Hussain

[SBM]

Admin
Can you please put a limit of words on this idiotic Cowardly postings by people like Londoner who professes that there is corruption but PAYS ALL THE WAJEBAATS AS DEMANDED BY KOTHARI. IF THERE IS A HYPOCRITE THEN IT IS HIM WHO COMES TO THIS FORUM DESPITE THE FARMAN OF HIS MOULA NOT TO COME. COMPLAIN ABOUT CORRUPTION AND STILL KEEPS ON PAYING and defending the practices of corrupt Kothari goons. Hypocrites like him should have no place on this forum
PLEASE EDIT HIS POSTING HE IS JUST PUTTING LONG POST JUST TO TAKE AWAY THE SPACE. HE SEEMS TO BE A PAID HACKER FROM KOTHAR

[canadian]

Saboteur, thy name is DBLondoner.

[Grayson]

DB Londoner is NOT a Kothari agent, hacker, or off-topic troll.
I disagree with his confrontational tendencies, but agree with some of his points. There are some hard truths.
Friendly suggestion: even if you dislike his style, do not discredit all (even if most) of what is said.
I felt like mentioning this, as I don't think his post should be censored/edited, nor should it be totally disregarded.

[Al Zulfiqar]

for all his bluster, misplaced bravado and insane tirades, db londoner returns after having licked his wounds to the same site which he abuses! seems that he has latent and repressed sado-masochistic tendencies which explains his need to get some more beatings!

dbl, since its so easy to set up a similar forum/website which will cost you peanuts, why haven't you done it so far? why the need to come back here?? you say that by paying through your nose, you are gaining more than you lose. then remain where you are licking your amil's behind. in fact if you throw large enough sums, the amil will lick YOUR behind. now what could be more pleasurable than that, besides enjoying the hideous SM hidings you get here?

a lot of forum members here know me personally, know what i do, what i have done and will continue to do. i do not have to justify or explain myself to johnny-come-lately morons like you who have an excuse for every inaction. you are a coward and a hypocrite, your harangue about anti-shias and wahabi's is just your deranged mind looking for a cop-out. the reformist movement is far bigger than this website, in case your puny brain hasn't grasped that as yet. the battle is being fought in the trenches, in the fields and alleys. a fight which you avoid because you have no guts. all you focus on is this website where your diseased fingers can safely abuse, rant and rave and cry WOLF, just because you have been beaten black and blue by a lone non-bohra!

get out of the comfort of your home, get your fat ass off the chair from behind the computer and go join a reformist jamaat. there is one in london as well. you will not find any wahabi's, anti-shia's or non-bohras there, in case you are petrified of them!

[as2153]

I agree with Grayson that it would be wrong to dismiss db Londoner as I think his opinion is reflective of several people in the community that I know. DB Londoner was sidetracked by anti Shia postings that detracted his focus away from some valuable points that he had to make about the community and its issues.

[Al Zulfiqar]

DB Londoner was sidetracked by anti Shia postings that detracted his focus away from some valuable points that he had to make about the community and its issues.

as215345,

the fact that dbl focuses only on anti-shia postings and gets so easily diverted from his so-called agenda for reform, shows that actually he has no agenda for reform, he has no 'valuable points' to make about corruption issues. how can he? he is an integral part of the corruption plaguing our community since he openly confesses to paying up big sums to the ayyash clergy, because he 'can afford to'. all he can do is criticise this forum and the reformists. he is all bluster, sound and fury with no concrete action on his part.