Bhai Akela,,
I didn't know, that it was a sin to give away haram meat.. Is it still haram, if those receiving are starving ??
The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
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Kaka Akela
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Bro Conscious:
You say," I didn't know, that it was a sin to give away haram meat.. Is it still haram, if those receiving are starving ??
n answer to your question let me ask you a question or two
is it OK for me to rob a bank and then donate all the money to the hungry people?
is it Ok for me to build a masjid with money i won in gambling?
is it OK to rob peter to pay paul?
killing a life whether animal or human is like killing the whole humanity, it says so somewhere in Quran. Sitting in wait for a wild animal to show for you to shoot would be considered pre-meditated killing it it was a human instead of an animal. Killing is the big sin, you can not easily wash it off easily by donating the meat to hungry people/
I took a Philosophy class in college many years ago and we discussed ends and means, is good end justifies to have bad means?? the whole class was involved in the discusssion and I don't remember the outcome but it sticks in my mind that you can not use bad means to justify a good deed.
suppose a bank is burnning down and all the money in it will burn for sure, is it alright then for me to rob the money and give it away to poor??
I have no idea why you ask so many rhetorical questions, are you trying to trap one of us to say something that will justify the Mansoos's hunting of innocent wild animals???
You say," I didn't know, that it was a sin to give away haram meat.. Is it still haram, if those receiving are starving ??
n answer to your question let me ask you a question or two
is it OK for me to rob a bank and then donate all the money to the hungry people?
is it Ok for me to build a masjid with money i won in gambling?
is it OK to rob peter to pay paul?
killing a life whether animal or human is like killing the whole humanity, it says so somewhere in Quran. Sitting in wait for a wild animal to show for you to shoot would be considered pre-meditated killing it it was a human instead of an animal. Killing is the big sin, you can not easily wash it off easily by donating the meat to hungry people/
I took a Philosophy class in college many years ago and we discussed ends and means, is good end justifies to have bad means?? the whole class was involved in the discusssion and I don't remember the outcome but it sticks in my mind that you can not use bad means to justify a good deed.
suppose a bank is burnning down and all the money in it will burn for sure, is it alright then for me to rob the money and give it away to poor??
I have no idea why you ask so many rhetorical questions, are you trying to trap one of us to say something that will justify the Mansoos's hunting of innocent wild animals???
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Bohra spring
- Posts: 1377
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Conscious
I am not suggesting that because fish don't feel pain you torment it and continue fishing. But you tried to connect fishing with hunting animals and they are not the same. Yes of course there are better ways in life to do something better then bullying fish.
Now back to your ethical and haram quagmire
Killing a lion, pig, elephant for trophy is haram and unethical
Killing a rare deer in a wildlife park for BBQ is not haram but unethical.
Killing a pig to eat the meat is haram but ethical
Killing a fish for sport and trophy is haram and unethical
Catching fish and releasing it alive is not haram or not proven unethical
Killing a fish to eat is not haram or unethical
Killing farm livestock like sheep, goats or cattle for eating is not haram or not unethical
Wow how much more simple can we make it
So if you think you can draw a long bow that Mansoos is faultless just because he threw the meat in the bush to feed hungry hyenas , vultures or poor peasants who think consuming lion meat falsely improves their virility and may feel satisfied by this gesture from a bearded foreigner and thank him. In your mind he has elevated poverty and hunger!
So he is still faultless while somehow probably he killed the lion that was tricked into a place where a goat, which by the way he did not also consume, as carcass , so now 2 dead animals , where the lion did not even get a chance to finish his meal, but you are feeling it is ethical since ultimately the vultures will finish the left overs, was strung on a tree and the poor lion thought it was free meal in a hot bush, the lion lost its life because the bearded fool took trophy photos, send SMS worldwide to seek celebrations from his slaves, skinned it for stuffing and displaying in one of his palaces, his host has paid tens of thousands to gain his khushi is somehow in your mind may be not haram or unethical.
You know the more you wind me up the more graphical I will get!
I am not suggesting that because fish don't feel pain you torment it and continue fishing. But you tried to connect fishing with hunting animals and they are not the same. Yes of course there are better ways in life to do something better then bullying fish.
Now back to your ethical and haram quagmire
Killing a lion, pig, elephant for trophy is haram and unethical
Killing a rare deer in a wildlife park for BBQ is not haram but unethical.
Killing a pig to eat the meat is haram but ethical
Killing a fish for sport and trophy is haram and unethical
Catching fish and releasing it alive is not haram or not proven unethical
Killing a fish to eat is not haram or unethical
Killing farm livestock like sheep, goats or cattle for eating is not haram or not unethical
Wow how much more simple can we make it
So if you think you can draw a long bow that Mansoos is faultless just because he threw the meat in the bush to feed hungry hyenas , vultures or poor peasants who think consuming lion meat falsely improves their virility and may feel satisfied by this gesture from a bearded foreigner and thank him. In your mind he has elevated poverty and hunger!
So he is still faultless while somehow probably he killed the lion that was tricked into a place where a goat, which by the way he did not also consume, as carcass , so now 2 dead animals , where the lion did not even get a chance to finish his meal, but you are feeling it is ethical since ultimately the vultures will finish the left overs, was strung on a tree and the poor lion thought it was free meal in a hot bush, the lion lost its life because the bearded fool took trophy photos, send SMS worldwide to seek celebrations from his slaves, skinned it for stuffing and displaying in one of his palaces, his host has paid tens of thousands to gain his khushi is somehow in your mind may be not haram or unethical.
You know the more you wind me up the more graphical I will get!
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
How much will it cost to run a few paid advertisements in UK, USA and India tabloids where we have one of the photos of the recent hunt and a statement saying
Advert can be quarter page or smaller.
STOP THE HUNTS , BOHRA PRIESTS ON LAVISH PILGRIMAGES AND SPIRITUAL MISSION
Couple of photos
Please PM me and if the cost is affordable I will chip in we have to stop this ridiculous shameful pass time, talking is not enough.
Advert can be quarter page or smaller.
STOP THE HUNTS , BOHRA PRIESTS ON LAVISH PILGRIMAGES AND SPIRITUAL MISSION
Couple of photos
Please PM me and if the cost is affordable I will chip in we have to stop this ridiculous shameful pass time, talking is not enough.
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Interesting posts but most of them are off-topic. The point is that Mansoos is in East Africa and has most of the Bohra community at his beck and call and his wishes are lavishly served up by the community. Period. It is a moot point to compare Mansoos' actions with Lamas, Khans, Popes, Ayatollahs and so on. The fact is that he does hunt wild animals in East Africa. By his actions he is plainly demostrating that he has the Bohra community in his grip. He, Kothar and a bevy of articulate shahzadas have ensnared the Bohra community coercing it to pay ever-increasing wajebaat and other fictitious dues to maintain themselves in obscene luxury.
The gullibilty of the Bohra community is so pathetic that it is so farcical. Time and again Kothar hypnotises the masses by recalling excerpts in Waaz of the hardship and frugal lifetyles of Panjetan Paak and Imams. We all remember Ma Fatima Zahra's 'ansu no kujo', Maulana Ali's diet of 'jaw ni roti', etc. Does the Bohra community think for a moment how this relates to the present? Not a chance. Fast forward that to Mansoos' times today when he enjoys travel in luxury, eats sumptuous meals, has access to immense wealth and what do we argue about? - halal or haram shikar. The true shikar is the Bohra Community!
I am in the reformist camp and I hate to see what is happening. For Mansoos and his cohorts to hypnotise the Bohra community into 'pag champwa', 'raakhi bandhwi' of Modi is a coup-detat. In one fell swoop Kothar has presented the Bohra community to Modi on a plate and told him 'These are my blind followers, they will do whatever we tell them and it is your vote bank, it will vote for you to be even the Prime Minister of India'. Modi, who calls Muslims 'Babar ki aulad' knows there will be a price to pay when Kothar comes to collect its chips. Kothar does not have amnesia; it knows what major role Modi played in the butchery and rape of Muslims in Gujarat. But Bohra community is mesmerised by Akido and is lead to whatever direction Kothar takes. Such is the deep-seated Akido. Akido that is so entrenched that the Bohra Community accepted the Nus of Mansoos as absolute and binding. Which right-thinking person would accept the farce the way it was conducted. But the Bohra Community did.
I see and hear dissent from my close friends quite regularly. They are quite vocal and hurting and yet they are the ones who partake in masjid and other functions without fail. They are the ones about whom the Waeezin proudly says: 'gani tadaat ma aya cho'. Need I say more?
The gullibilty of the Bohra community is so pathetic that it is so farcical. Time and again Kothar hypnotises the masses by recalling excerpts in Waaz of the hardship and frugal lifetyles of Panjetan Paak and Imams. We all remember Ma Fatima Zahra's 'ansu no kujo', Maulana Ali's diet of 'jaw ni roti', etc. Does the Bohra community think for a moment how this relates to the present? Not a chance. Fast forward that to Mansoos' times today when he enjoys travel in luxury, eats sumptuous meals, has access to immense wealth and what do we argue about? - halal or haram shikar. The true shikar is the Bohra Community!
I am in the reformist camp and I hate to see what is happening. For Mansoos and his cohorts to hypnotise the Bohra community into 'pag champwa', 'raakhi bandhwi' of Modi is a coup-detat. In one fell swoop Kothar has presented the Bohra community to Modi on a plate and told him 'These are my blind followers, they will do whatever we tell them and it is your vote bank, it will vote for you to be even the Prime Minister of India'. Modi, who calls Muslims 'Babar ki aulad' knows there will be a price to pay when Kothar comes to collect its chips. Kothar does not have amnesia; it knows what major role Modi played in the butchery and rape of Muslims in Gujarat. But Bohra community is mesmerised by Akido and is lead to whatever direction Kothar takes. Such is the deep-seated Akido. Akido that is so entrenched that the Bohra Community accepted the Nus of Mansoos as absolute and binding. Which right-thinking person would accept the farce the way it was conducted. But the Bohra Community did.
I see and hear dissent from my close friends quite regularly. They are quite vocal and hurting and yet they are the ones who partake in masjid and other functions without fail. They are the ones about whom the Waeezin proudly says: 'gani tadaat ma aya cho'. Need I say more?
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humble_servant_us
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
any islamic ruling is same for all whether it be a common man or a religious scholar. However there is added responsibility to a religious scholar because the common man looks upon him as his role model.
The question which needs to be answered is
Is Hunting permissible in Bohra Fiqh and are there any conditions attached to it.
Different muslim sects may differ on this (it is good to know what they say) but what matters is what Bohra Fiqh have to say about this because Muffadal BS follows Bohra madhab.
Instead of putting our thoughts on whether hunting is right or wrong , someone should just quote from Bohra literature its ruling.
We may personally not like an act but our liking/disliking has to be over-ruled by what Allah(swt) has ordained.
The question which needs to be answered is
Is Hunting permissible in Bohra Fiqh and are there any conditions attached to it.
Different muslim sects may differ on this (it is good to know what they say) but what matters is what Bohra Fiqh have to say about this because Muffadal BS follows Bohra madhab.
Instead of putting our thoughts on whether hunting is right or wrong , someone should just quote from Bohra literature its ruling.
We may personally not like an act but our liking/disliking has to be over-ruled by what Allah(swt) has ordained.
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Brother Bohra spring, kaka Akela and everyone else..
My intentions were never to trap anyone with all this question or try to vindicate someone for taking/playing, with a life.. I'm just trying to broaden my horizon by seeing it from different perspective and try to understand, how we justify for our actions.. In fact, I use to hold the same opinion as Br Bohraspring about sports fishing, until I started asking myself, what pleasure did I get.. Is it when the fish is struggling for its life, that excites me?? And it's those kind of thoughts/feelings I fear for myself.. I cant bear the thought of inflicting pain or suffering to another living creature just in the name of sports..
And here is another thing I find very disturbing..
It is accepted to shot a deer for food, one must only injure it so it can be sacrificed correctly,, Is it ethicality right/correct for the animal to suffer, just because we can sacrifice it according to our tradition ?
I agree with Br humble_servant_us, that there other question which needs to be answered from Bohra literature..
-Is Hunting permissible in Bohra Fiqh and are there any conditions attached to it.
My intentions were never to trap anyone with all this question or try to vindicate someone for taking/playing, with a life.. I'm just trying to broaden my horizon by seeing it from different perspective and try to understand, how we justify for our actions.. In fact, I use to hold the same opinion as Br Bohraspring about sports fishing, until I started asking myself, what pleasure did I get.. Is it when the fish is struggling for its life, that excites me?? And it's those kind of thoughts/feelings I fear for myself.. I cant bear the thought of inflicting pain or suffering to another living creature just in the name of sports..
And here is another thing I find very disturbing..
It is accepted to shot a deer for food, one must only injure it so it can be sacrificed correctly,, Is it ethicality right/correct for the animal to suffer, just because we can sacrifice it according to our tradition ?
I agree with Br humble_servant_us, that there other question which needs to be answered from Bohra literature..
-Is Hunting permissible in Bohra Fiqh and are there any conditions attached to it.
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bohra_manus
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
I am willing to chip in as well.Ozdundee wrote:How much will it cost to run a few paid advertisements in UK, USA and India tabloids where we have one of the photos of the recent hunt and a statement saying
Advert can be quarter page or smaller.
STOP THE HUNTS , BOHRA PRIESTS ON LAVISH PILGRIMAGES AND SPIRITUAL MISSION
Couple of photos
Please PM me and if the cost is affordable I will chip in we have to stop this ridiculous shameful pass time, talking is not enough.
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Bohra spring
- Posts: 1377
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
http://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/s ... l-wildlife
A global petition is in progress. If you are sincere show your support.
A global petition is in progress. If you are sincere show your support.
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bohra_manus
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
Bohra spring wrote:http://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/s ... l-wildlife
A global petition is in progress. If you are sincere show your support.
Just signed it.
Other readers of the forum, irrespective of your stripe (Reformist/Abde) please save the innocent animals from this cruelty.
Thanks Br BohraSpring for starting it.
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
signed it too..
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
bohra fiqeh does not allow hunting and killing of life. what sort of character is reflected by a religious leader to his followers when they see him with a big long gun in front of a dead animal. pious religious persons are soft hearted , (example of imam hussain is before us) not cruel, ruthless murderers and hunters. The desease of killing animals also spreads to human beings and in that context I dare to say many a families have been destroyed and many a bohris have suffered a lot of pain at hands of these zadas and big mullas. some of the pain has been severe enough to cause death in the family. cases are there in my extended family where sensless moula, moula abde goondas were hired by the kothar in karachi and acid was thrown on the face of the then jamaat secretary of karachi for some difference of opinion between him and the amil of karachi. of course everything was hushed up, but the close family were scared stiff to say or do anything.
one may believe it or not, but it happened right at the dewri of adam masjid. The secretary was coming down the steps after visiting the amil and the goondas threw acid on his face and scarred him for life. being wealthy, he went to london to do skin grafting of the badly burned face. It did not help. so bad was the burn that all his front teeth and mouth were completely exposed. he died soon thereafter.
one may believe it or not, but it happened right at the dewri of adam masjid. The secretary was coming down the steps after visiting the amil and the goondas threw acid on his face and scarred him for life. being wealthy, he went to london to do skin grafting of the badly burned face. It did not help. so bad was the burn that all his front teeth and mouth were completely exposed. he died soon thereafter.
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AbdeSMBSMS
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:38 am
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Lets See how much guts you have to challenge Our Maula ( tus ). Don't waste yur guts on this forum. We Abdes want to see what steps will you take against Our maula ( tus ) & how much effective it will be.Ozdundee wrote:How much will it cost to run a few paid advertisements in UK, USA and India tabloids where we have one of the photos of the recent hunt and a statement saying
Advert can be quarter page or smaller.
STOP THE HUNTS , BOHRA PRIESTS ON LAVISH PILGRIMAGES AND SPIRITUAL MISSION
Couple of photos
Please PM me and if the cost is affordable I will chip in we have to stop this ridiculous shameful pass time, talking is not enough.
Move On LOOSER.
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
AbdeSmbsms:
It's loser, dumbass
It's loser, dumbass
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AbdeSMBSMS
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:38 am
Re: Shikar.
I have Came across many threads & posts on this Forum in which the Reformists indicates that the Hunting Activity which was performed by Our Aqamaula ( tus ) & Now which is performed by Mufaddal Maula ( tus ) is illegal & against the Law & shariat.
I want to say one thing When Mufaddal Maula ( tus) does the Shikar he has special permission from the Govt of Africa, special VIP hunting license he Possesses & Maula ( tus ) does the shikar in front of Govt officials,Bureaucrats, African NGOS & in the presence of a Special commissioner of Animal Forum.
So i want to address the Reformists cuckoos on this forum that what action you will take. Your all efforts will be in vain.
As you reformists are mentioning that you will take necessary actions, signing petitions, complaining to animal forum, NGOS blah blah blah you won't achieve anything. ( Jitni Aukat utni hi Baat karni chahiye).
But though enemies like you shud get fair chance. So we abdes want to see how much spunk you have to stop our Maula ( tus) doing the activity of Hunting.
Don't just show your grudge on this forum if you reformists have that much capability than banned hunting for Our Mufaddal Maula ( tus ) when he goes for Tafreeh to Africa Next Time Or try to banned this time.
Hum ( Abdes) bhi toh dekhe tum Reformists main Kitna Tel hai.
Secondly you guys don't talk about Shariat as you Reformists are too far away & with less brain to understand this word.
I want to say one thing When Mufaddal Maula ( tus) does the Shikar he has special permission from the Govt of Africa, special VIP hunting license he Possesses & Maula ( tus ) does the shikar in front of Govt officials,Bureaucrats, African NGOS & in the presence of a Special commissioner of Animal Forum.
So i want to address the Reformists cuckoos on this forum that what action you will take. Your all efforts will be in vain.
As you reformists are mentioning that you will take necessary actions, signing petitions, complaining to animal forum, NGOS blah blah blah you won't achieve anything. ( Jitni Aukat utni hi Baat karni chahiye).
But though enemies like you shud get fair chance. So we abdes want to see how much spunk you have to stop our Maula ( tus) doing the activity of Hunting.
Don't just show your grudge on this forum if you reformists have that much capability than banned hunting for Our Mufaddal Maula ( tus ) when he goes for Tafreeh to Africa Next Time Or try to banned this time.
Hum ( Abdes) bhi toh dekhe tum Reformists main Kitna Tel hai.
Secondly you guys don't talk about Shariat as you Reformists are too far away & with less brain to understand this word.
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Think what you have said is proved here.AbdeSMBSMS wrote:Lets See how much guts you have to challenge Our Maula ( tus ). Don't waste yur guts on this forum. We Abdes want to see what steps will you take against Our maula ( tus ) & how much effective it will be.
Move On LOOSER.
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AbdeSMBSMS
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:38 am
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Ja Bacche pehle apne Doodh Ke Daat Todh ke Aa. Yeh site Bachho ke liye nahi hai babuaa.Maqbool wrote:Think what you have said is proved here.AbdeSMBSMS wrote:Lets See how much guts you have to challenge Our Maula ( tus ). Don't waste yur guts on this forum. We Abdes want to see what steps will you take against Our maula ( tus ) & how much effective it will be.
Move On LOOSER.
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Bohra spring
- Posts: 1377
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Abde wow the Mansoos is really busy doing khidmat for mineen and his Imam with all these entourage.I want to say one thing When Mufaddal Maula ( tus) does the Shikar he has special permission from the Govt of Africa, special VIP hunting license he Possesses & Maula ( tus ) does the shikar in front of Govt officials,Bureaucrats, African NGOS & in the presence of a Special commissioner of Animal Forum.
You clearly are against civilised protest ? Petitions, peaceful protests, lobbying are modern day civilised ways of making change ....what is your kothars...deceit, bribery, making friends with war criminal. Now who is on siratul mustaqim
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Bohra spring
- Posts: 1377
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
9 signatures in 24 hrs good progress keep it up and forward to your trusted Bohra and non Bohra contacts.Bohra spring wrote:http://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/s ... l-wildlife
A global petition is in progress. If you are sincere show your support.
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AbdeSMBSMS
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:38 am
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Instead of throwing stupid tantrums have guts to accept the challenge which is mentioned in my quote.Bohra spring wrote:Abde wow the Mansoos is really busy doing khidmat for mineen and his Imam with all these entourage.I want to say one thing When Mufaddal Maula ( tus) does the Shikar he has special permission from the Govt of Africa, special VIP hunting license he Possesses & Maula ( tus ) does the shikar in front of Govt officials,Bureaucrats, African NGOS & in the presence of a Special commissioner of Animal Forum.
You clearly are against civilised protest ? Petitions, peaceful protests, lobbying are modern day civilised ways of making change ....what is your kothars...deceit, bribery, making friends with war criminal. Now who is on siratul mustaqim
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
So did the ACP and DSP of Gujarat from Modi when they did encounter of Ishrat Jihan and see what happened?I want to say one thing When Mufaddal Maula ( tus) does the Shikar he has special permission from the Govt of Africa, special VIP hunting license he Possesses & Maula ( tus ) does the shikar in front of Govt officials,Bureaucrats, African NGOS & in the presence of a Special commissioner of Animal Forum.
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AbdeSMBSMS
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:38 am
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Instead of throwing stupid tantrums have guts to accept the challenge which is mentioned in my quote.SBM wrote:So did the ACP and DSP of Gujarat from Modi when they did encounter of Ishrat Jihan and see what happened?I want to say one thing When Mufaddal Maula ( tus) does the Shikar he has special permission from the Govt of Africa, special VIP hunting license he Possesses & Maula ( tus ) does the shikar in front of Govt officials,Bureaucrats, African NGOS & in the presence of a Special commissioner of Animal Forum.
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Bhai AbdeSMBSMS,,
There is nothing special that our Maula can hunt in Tanzania.. To hunt, everyone and that includes our Maula has to get a license for the animal (lion, buffalo, deer ) he wants to kill.. Then it's the fee to enter the park, and fee for the govt official that will accompany and watch that our Maula doesn't go in a killing spiral.. Leaving our Maula alone in the park, is like leaving a child in a candy shop
There is nothing special that our Maula can hunt in Tanzania.. To hunt, everyone and that includes our Maula has to get a license for the animal (lion, buffalo, deer ) he wants to kill.. Then it's the fee to enter the park, and fee for the govt official that will accompany and watch that our Maula doesn't go in a killing spiral.. Leaving our Maula alone in the park, is like leaving a child in a candy shop
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Bohra spring
- Posts: 1377
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
We have snared a real wild abde here AbdeSS..his emotive passionate responses are good game ...it is like we are on the hunt and he is thrashing around in pain, just like a wounded ......!
Banned ...past tense ! Are you more inspirational than us ....
first we try to ban it then once banning is accomplished we can claim we banned it..slow down 
We cannot ban Mansoos or ban hunting by unethical ranchers ...we want him to realise it is people are pleading with him rationally , it is shameful, haram and unethical so he self consciously or due to embarrassment change his hobby.
Grudge this is more than a grudge ....Don't just show your grudge on this forum if you reformists have that much capability than banned hunting for Our Mufaddal Maula ( tus ) when he goes for Tafreeh to Africa Next Time Or try to banned this time
Banned ...past tense ! Are you more inspirational than us ....
first we try to ban it then once banning is accomplished we can claim we banned it..slow down We cannot ban Mansoos or ban hunting by unethical ranchers ...we want him to realise it is people are pleading with him rationally , it is shameful, haram and unethical so he self consciously or due to embarrassment change his hobby.
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
no self conciousness in abde. only one track mind. even if muffy killed a human they will protect him, saying muffi wanted him to go to jannat soon.
Re: Mansoos' shikar in Africa continues
Abde Bhai,,AbdeSMBSMS wrote:Instead of throwing stupid tantrums have guts to accept the challenge which is mentioned in my quote.SBM wrote: So did the ACP and DSP of Gujarat from Modi when they did encounter of Ishrat Jihan and see what happened?
Another thing I forgot to mention to you was that our Maula doesn't possesses any special license or permission for hunting in Tanzania and I'll tell you why? Have you seen any photo or heard of him, killing a giraffe in Tanzania? The Answer is No..
And If you still think our Maula is above the law, please do a arzi for him to kill one and take a photo with the flag of Tanzania and you'll see the reaction he will get..
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
When I come to think about this, you know what would really show the greatness of our Maula?? A photo of him with his riffle and a panda bear.. I'm sure he also desires one of those, in his collection..
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
Signed the petition ...we need 985 more signatures
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ghulam muhammed
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
Nowhere in the world is it legal to hunt wild tigers, as each remaining subspecies of the giant cat is infamously on the verge of extinction.
Yet the close cousin of the tiger, the lion—almost equally large, equally charismatic and, in places, equally threatened—is legally killed by trophy hunters across its shrinking African range. The remaining lion population, centered in eastern and southern Africa, has declined by as much as 30 percent in the past 20 years, and the cats are considered seriously imperiled. Yet every year 600 lions fall to the bullets of licensed and legal tourists on safari hunts. The activity is opposed by many, but those in favor argue that trophy hunting of lions and other prized targets generates employment and revenue for local economies. The Huffington Post ran an editorial in March 2011 in which the author—lion researcher Luke Hunter—condemned the act of shooting a big cat but still argued that lion hunting is an important tool in generating revenue for land preservation. The author reported that trophy-hunting tourists may pay $125,000 in fees and guide services for the privilege of killing a lion, and he questioned the wisdom in protecting the animals under the Endangered Species Act, an action the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is considering. A hunter’s organization called Conservation Force also makes the case on its website that African “tourist safari hunting” benefits land, wildlife and communities while imparting “no detrimental biological impact.”
But a report published in 2011 says otherwise—that the environmental and economic benefits of trophy hunting in Africa are negligible. The paper, produced by the International Union for Conservation of Nature, states that in 11 sub-Saharan countries that allow trophy hunting of large game, 272 million acres—or 15 percent of the land—is open to the sport. However, returns from trophy hunting are dismal. While hunters in Africa kill, in addition to lions, 800 leopards, 640 elephants and more than 3,000 water buffalo each year, among other species, they leave behind only 44 cents per acre of hunting land. In Tanzania, that figure is much smaller—a per-acre benefit of less than two cents. A closer look by the report’s authors at seven of the 11 countries—Namibia, Tanzania, Botswana, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Burkina Faso and Benin—revealed that trophy hunting employs not even 10,000 people on a permanent and part-time basis. About 100 million people live in these seven nations.
The IUCN’s report points out that since the economic benefits of trophy hunting appear to be virtually nil in Africa, the only way hunting can be used as a conservation tool is by allowing it as part of carefully designed conservation strategies. Which beckons the question: What species are to gain by hunters prowling their habitat? Certainly, in some cases of overpopulation—usually of grazing herd animals—hunting can serve a direct purpose and even benefit ecosystems. Even elephants are widely said to be overpopulated in certain locations and in need of intervention via rifles.
But for lions, can the intentional removal of any animals from remaining populations be tolerated? Their numbers are crashing from historic levels. Lions once occurred in most of Africa, southern Europe, the Arabian peninsula and southern Asia as far east as India. But nation by nation, lions have disappeared. In Greece, they were gone by A.D. 100. In the 1100s, lions vanished from Palestine. The species’ greatest decline occurred in the 20th century, when Syria, Iran and Iraq saw their last lions die. In 1950, there may have been 400,000 left in the wild; by 1975, perhaps only 200,000. By the 1990s, their numbers had been halved again. Today, an isolated population in the Gir Forest of India numbers more than 400 and seems even to be growing. But the current African population of 32,000 to 35,000 is declining fast. (Defenders of Wildlife has estimated that not even 21,000 lions remain.) In Kenya, the situation is dire: In 2009, wildlife officials guessed they were losing about 100 lions per year in a national population of just 2,000 and that they might be extinct within 20 years. The causes are multiple but related; loss of habitat and decline of prey species are huge factors which, in turn, mean increased lion conflicts with livestock herders—and, often, dead lions; and as numbers drop, the gene pool is dwindling, causing inbreeding and weakened immune systems. Disease outbreaks have also had devastating impacts.
Tiger. Since 1900, tiger numbers from Turkey to Malaysia have dropped by 95 percent. Today, between 4,000 and 7,000 remain, and the outlook is grim. The largest population lives in India, where tourists have the best chance at seeing wild tigers in Ranthambore National Park, Kanha National Park and Bandhavgarh National Park.
Cheetah. The world’s fastest land animal once lived in 44 countries in Asia and Africa, with a population of possibly 100,000. Today, most cheetahs live in Africa, where numbers are down to as low as 10,000. A gene pool bottleneck thousands of years ago has left a legacy of inbreeding, one of the major threats to the cheetah’s survival. For now, an excellent place to see cheetahs is Kafue National Park, in Zambia.
Snow Leopard. The granite-colored snow leopard of the Himalaya numbers possibly 6,000 in 12 nations, but, like most wild cats, the snow leopard is disappearing. Trekkers in the Himalaya (PDF) have the best chance, though unlikely, of catching a glimpse.
Clouded Leopard. Perhaps the most mysterious of the big cats—and definitely the smallest—the clouded leopard ranges from Tibet through southern China and south through the islands of Malaysia and Indonesia. The animals weigh just 30 to 50 pounds and spend much of their time in trees. The current population is unknown but believed to be less than 10,000 individuals and shrinking. Seeing clouded leopards is rare—and we may take satisfaction simply in knowing that this beautiful creature exists.
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Yet the close cousin of the tiger, the lion—almost equally large, equally charismatic and, in places, equally threatened—is legally killed by trophy hunters across its shrinking African range. The remaining lion population, centered in eastern and southern Africa, has declined by as much as 30 percent in the past 20 years, and the cats are considered seriously imperiled. Yet every year 600 lions fall to the bullets of licensed and legal tourists on safari hunts. The activity is opposed by many, but those in favor argue that trophy hunting of lions and other prized targets generates employment and revenue for local economies. The Huffington Post ran an editorial in March 2011 in which the author—lion researcher Luke Hunter—condemned the act of shooting a big cat but still argued that lion hunting is an important tool in generating revenue for land preservation. The author reported that trophy-hunting tourists may pay $125,000 in fees and guide services for the privilege of killing a lion, and he questioned the wisdom in protecting the animals under the Endangered Species Act, an action the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is considering. A hunter’s organization called Conservation Force also makes the case on its website that African “tourist safari hunting” benefits land, wildlife and communities while imparting “no detrimental biological impact.”
But a report published in 2011 says otherwise—that the environmental and economic benefits of trophy hunting in Africa are negligible. The paper, produced by the International Union for Conservation of Nature, states that in 11 sub-Saharan countries that allow trophy hunting of large game, 272 million acres—or 15 percent of the land—is open to the sport. However, returns from trophy hunting are dismal. While hunters in Africa kill, in addition to lions, 800 leopards, 640 elephants and more than 3,000 water buffalo each year, among other species, they leave behind only 44 cents per acre of hunting land. In Tanzania, that figure is much smaller—a per-acre benefit of less than two cents. A closer look by the report’s authors at seven of the 11 countries—Namibia, Tanzania, Botswana, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Burkina Faso and Benin—revealed that trophy hunting employs not even 10,000 people on a permanent and part-time basis. About 100 million people live in these seven nations.
The IUCN’s report points out that since the economic benefits of trophy hunting appear to be virtually nil in Africa, the only way hunting can be used as a conservation tool is by allowing it as part of carefully designed conservation strategies. Which beckons the question: What species are to gain by hunters prowling their habitat? Certainly, in some cases of overpopulation—usually of grazing herd animals—hunting can serve a direct purpose and even benefit ecosystems. Even elephants are widely said to be overpopulated in certain locations and in need of intervention via rifles.
But for lions, can the intentional removal of any animals from remaining populations be tolerated? Their numbers are crashing from historic levels. Lions once occurred in most of Africa, southern Europe, the Arabian peninsula and southern Asia as far east as India. But nation by nation, lions have disappeared. In Greece, they were gone by A.D. 100. In the 1100s, lions vanished from Palestine. The species’ greatest decline occurred in the 20th century, when Syria, Iran and Iraq saw their last lions die. In 1950, there may have been 400,000 left in the wild; by 1975, perhaps only 200,000. By the 1990s, their numbers had been halved again. Today, an isolated population in the Gir Forest of India numbers more than 400 and seems even to be growing. But the current African population of 32,000 to 35,000 is declining fast. (Defenders of Wildlife has estimated that not even 21,000 lions remain.) In Kenya, the situation is dire: In 2009, wildlife officials guessed they were losing about 100 lions per year in a national population of just 2,000 and that they might be extinct within 20 years. The causes are multiple but related; loss of habitat and decline of prey species are huge factors which, in turn, mean increased lion conflicts with livestock herders—and, often, dead lions; and as numbers drop, the gene pool is dwindling, causing inbreeding and weakened immune systems. Disease outbreaks have also had devastating impacts.
Tiger. Since 1900, tiger numbers from Turkey to Malaysia have dropped by 95 percent. Today, between 4,000 and 7,000 remain, and the outlook is grim. The largest population lives in India, where tourists have the best chance at seeing wild tigers in Ranthambore National Park, Kanha National Park and Bandhavgarh National Park.
Cheetah. The world’s fastest land animal once lived in 44 countries in Asia and Africa, with a population of possibly 100,000. Today, most cheetahs live in Africa, where numbers are down to as low as 10,000. A gene pool bottleneck thousands of years ago has left a legacy of inbreeding, one of the major threats to the cheetah’s survival. For now, an excellent place to see cheetahs is Kafue National Park, in Zambia.
Snow Leopard. The granite-colored snow leopard of the Himalaya numbers possibly 6,000 in 12 nations, but, like most wild cats, the snow leopard is disappearing. Trekkers in the Himalaya (PDF) have the best chance, though unlikely, of catching a glimpse.
Clouded Leopard. Perhaps the most mysterious of the big cats—and definitely the smallest—the clouded leopard ranges from Tibet through southern China and south through the islands of Malaysia and Indonesia. The animals weigh just 30 to 50 pounds and spend much of their time in trees. The current population is unknown but believed to be less than 10,000 individuals and shrinking. Seeing clouded leopards is rare—and we may take satisfaction simply in knowing that this beautiful creature exists.
Read more: http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/adventu ... z2dgNAs1Os
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
Re: The Quran on hunting and killing of animals for sport
Having read some of the latest posts I would like to enlighten readers with the following:
For anyone to comment on obtaining a hunting license, or for that matter any license,
in East Africa one has to be familiar with how things work in those countries. I speak with
personal knowledge because I was born and raised in Kenya, have travelled extensively in Tanzania
and Uganda. Let me begin by giving realying history of those countries. These three
countries acheived independence in the early 60's and had a very difficult time to shake the yolks
of colonialism from its psyche. Transition was quick but the running of the countries proved to be
very difficult. As the civil service of expatriates was being replaced by native-born blacks a vacuum
of opportunities presented itself. This being fast-tracking of whatever one wanted done; bogus passports,
business licenses, birth certificates, educational certificates and so on. Asians, predominantly Indians
of the sub-continent, being Gujaratis, Goans, Sikhs, etc. bribed newly-posted Africans to short-circuit all
laid down laws or rules. The result was two-fold. African officers in influential positions started to
taste the pleasure of illicit money and the Indians achieved what they sat out to do. By and by
the Africans became indispensable and they became rich. The cult of bribing government officials reached even the
bottom rungs of file clerks, mail boys and tea makers. For one to access ones file, say on income tax, one had to
bribe the lowly document recorder. If one had a court date coming up it was 'easy' to misplace a vital document.
Indians are masters of bribery; Anna Hazare and his fasts in India come to mind! His campaign of combatting bribery in India has gone nowhere., Over the years Indians started to migrate to foreign lands because many possessed legal papers to do so. The Indians who remained had either businesses there or they had opted to
become naturalised citizens. For a non-black to function and survive became difficult. But Indians by nature
are very resourceful and traditionally brought up to be frugal; knew how to survive and how to excel was their forte. It was a mutual
relationship between them and the Africans. Albeit, over the years the Africans became aware that they
were being usurped but the lure of easy money was so attractive. Remember the adage: 'khand khato hawe madh khato thai gayo'.
This then is the status quo. Nothing is impossible in East Africa. Indians have weaved elaborate networks of contacts throughout the government.
Let me illustrate a very relevant point here. About fifteen years ago the Kenya Income Tax department noted ruefully that
though Kenya was prospering its tax revenue was failing badly. Indians who before had been running retail and wholesale businesses
had now become industrialists and manufacturers. Indians had virtually spread a web of corrupt officials in the Income Tax
department so by a system of elaborate under-the counter bribes and perks they were not assessed rightful taxes. What was collected was a pittance. The Kenyan government recruited about 200 forensic auditors from south India who were mandated to investigate and collect past dues from Indian businesses. They were to be rewarded with handsome bonuses on top of their very good salaries. Indian businessmen went into panic modes, many were made to pay up, some fled the country, many went bankrupt.
To get back to topic under discussion let me give you a few examples. The Hebatullah family has a conglomerate
of businesses; glass, hardware, real estate, etc. It also has full control of Kothar's revenue in Kenya. From time
to time, Sheikh Hussainbhai with an entourage of Sheikhs donate large sums to various so-called charitable funds.
Photographs grace local newspapers and tv programs.They have been
known to contribute millions of shillings to past presidents of Kenya being Moi and Kibaki. How else can the VIP
lounges at Kenyan Airports being accessed. Maula's motorcade is escorted by outriders of police motorcycles,
road closures take place, building codes violated, and of course getting licenses to shoot wild animals in the national parks
in East Africa is such a small matter.
On another level corruption is so deep-seated that not a week goes by without huge shipments of ivory is intercepted at East
African ports; all destined to Asia. Killing rhinos for their horns, lions and cheetahs for their claws and hearts, zebras and
giraffes for their hide, exotic birds for their colourful plumes are but a few examples.
Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda of today are aneamic. Billions of dollars in foreign aid is syphoned off by officials. The once
revenue-producing East African Railways is defunct. Rural to urban migration has destroyed farmlands where trees have been cut
down to make charcoal from, local fisheries is non-existent as rights have been given away to Japanese and Korean fleets,
infrastructure like roads are pathetic, water supply is erratic, electricity is rationed or absent for days, personal safety and peace of
mind is totally absent.
Now can anyone tell me why a license to kill any wild animal by Mansoos or any other person in the park is so easy. 'Paiso Parmeshwar che, Paisa hoi to badhu thei sake'.
For anyone to comment on obtaining a hunting license, or for that matter any license,
in East Africa one has to be familiar with how things work in those countries. I speak with
personal knowledge because I was born and raised in Kenya, have travelled extensively in Tanzania
and Uganda. Let me begin by giving realying history of those countries. These three
countries acheived independence in the early 60's and had a very difficult time to shake the yolks
of colonialism from its psyche. Transition was quick but the running of the countries proved to be
very difficult. As the civil service of expatriates was being replaced by native-born blacks a vacuum
of opportunities presented itself. This being fast-tracking of whatever one wanted done; bogus passports,
business licenses, birth certificates, educational certificates and so on. Asians, predominantly Indians
of the sub-continent, being Gujaratis, Goans, Sikhs, etc. bribed newly-posted Africans to short-circuit all
laid down laws or rules. The result was two-fold. African officers in influential positions started to
taste the pleasure of illicit money and the Indians achieved what they sat out to do. By and by
the Africans became indispensable and they became rich. The cult of bribing government officials reached even the
bottom rungs of file clerks, mail boys and tea makers. For one to access ones file, say on income tax, one had to
bribe the lowly document recorder. If one had a court date coming up it was 'easy' to misplace a vital document.
Indians are masters of bribery; Anna Hazare and his fasts in India come to mind! His campaign of combatting bribery in India has gone nowhere., Over the years Indians started to migrate to foreign lands because many possessed legal papers to do so. The Indians who remained had either businesses there or they had opted to
become naturalised citizens. For a non-black to function and survive became difficult. But Indians by nature
are very resourceful and traditionally brought up to be frugal; knew how to survive and how to excel was their forte. It was a mutual
relationship between them and the Africans. Albeit, over the years the Africans became aware that they
were being usurped but the lure of easy money was so attractive. Remember the adage: 'khand khato hawe madh khato thai gayo'.
This then is the status quo. Nothing is impossible in East Africa. Indians have weaved elaborate networks of contacts throughout the government.
Let me illustrate a very relevant point here. About fifteen years ago the Kenya Income Tax department noted ruefully that
though Kenya was prospering its tax revenue was failing badly. Indians who before had been running retail and wholesale businesses
had now become industrialists and manufacturers. Indians had virtually spread a web of corrupt officials in the Income Tax
department so by a system of elaborate under-the counter bribes and perks they were not assessed rightful taxes. What was collected was a pittance. The Kenyan government recruited about 200 forensic auditors from south India who were mandated to investigate and collect past dues from Indian businesses. They were to be rewarded with handsome bonuses on top of their very good salaries. Indian businessmen went into panic modes, many were made to pay up, some fled the country, many went bankrupt.
To get back to topic under discussion let me give you a few examples. The Hebatullah family has a conglomerate
of businesses; glass, hardware, real estate, etc. It also has full control of Kothar's revenue in Kenya. From time
to time, Sheikh Hussainbhai with an entourage of Sheikhs donate large sums to various so-called charitable funds.
Photographs grace local newspapers and tv programs.They have been
known to contribute millions of shillings to past presidents of Kenya being Moi and Kibaki. How else can the VIP
lounges at Kenyan Airports being accessed. Maula's motorcade is escorted by outriders of police motorcycles,
road closures take place, building codes violated, and of course getting licenses to shoot wild animals in the national parks
in East Africa is such a small matter.
On another level corruption is so deep-seated that not a week goes by without huge shipments of ivory is intercepted at East
African ports; all destined to Asia. Killing rhinos for their horns, lions and cheetahs for their claws and hearts, zebras and
giraffes for their hide, exotic birds for their colourful plumes are but a few examples.
Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda of today are aneamic. Billions of dollars in foreign aid is syphoned off by officials. The once
revenue-producing East African Railways is defunct. Rural to urban migration has destroyed farmlands where trees have been cut
down to make charcoal from, local fisheries is non-existent as rights have been given away to Japanese and Korean fleets,
infrastructure like roads are pathetic, water supply is erratic, electricity is rationed or absent for days, personal safety and peace of
mind is totally absent.
Now can anyone tell me why a license to kill any wild animal by Mansoos or any other person in the park is so easy. 'Paiso Parmeshwar che, Paisa hoi to badhu thei sake'.