Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#481

Unread post by monginis » Thu May 01, 2014 2:04 am

true_bohra wrote:cornered...and that too in USA... :lol: :lol:
may be who knows, otherwise why would such a high stature ranking person MAZOON would remain out of limelight all these years, while 2 paise kaa muffy was seen everywhere.

abu bakar use to do imamat in masjidul nabawi while Imam Ali was standing behind for many years.

politics is a complex thing.

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#482

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Thu May 01, 2014 2:13 am

true_bohra wrote:
S. Insaf wrote: They said he has been the late Syedna’s closest aide over the years.
:shock: :shock: :shock: and where was this closest aide all these years???

Brother tb, dont you feel something fishy
1) When surgical experts doubt abt the syedna health to perform nass after going through medical reports?
2) When sms spokesperson says completely lie abt excommunication and preventing skq frm entering raudat tahera(i had recd msg to come to raudat immediately arnd 8 pm)
3) When on one side sms says ladies should make roti, topi n homescience and on other hand video is circulating showing highly educated women promoting sms in the video no one talks abt roti or homescience
4) Saying Laanat on Skq and on very next day "Gale lagavi laes drama"
5) Concept of Saheb e dawat actual meaning is way opposite than what they did just to grab money.
6) when sms go for hunting even its clearly mentioned in quran that killing of any animals just for entertainment is haraam
7) showing no sympathy for those who got killed during stampede in last ritual of syedna n kothar declared them shaheed (no monetary support was provided to the fmly members)


Do u still feel frm bottom of the heart tht sms is on haq and has all the qualities to become dai?

please dont come up with faith n hiqmat because all the great religious leader show path to followers by setting eg like rasullallah, imams n all the earlier dais.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#483

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu May 01, 2014 4:59 am

MG

First Impression is last impression, event of Nuss at London Hospital and Raudat Tahera and all the activities after that has abdes habituated to believe SMS to be their leader. Everyone does not spend time exploring the realities, as there is no doubt. The nuss has been dished out to abdes with two kharaas and mithaas in a convenient majaalis. Attending such majalis and sit through the drama is an entertaining struggle for majority of abdes. A commoner abde is too busy making two ends meet and rich abdes are busy enjoying the limelight and rutbas they get at their disposable income. Both type of abdes needs an idol, SMS grabbed this opportunity with all the Men, Machinery and Might ! SMS camp has striked the hammer at the most opportune time, or has created the most opportune time.

Abdes are in such a trance, that if SMB had declared the “nuss” on a “ponga pandit”; abdes would have accepted it heads down ! situation is not much different today too, with 53000 nariyals and other such activities taking prominence, Human (Idol) worhsipping is going stronger and stronger !

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Gujarat HC grants injunction on Dawoodi Bohra trusts, Wa

#484

Unread post by accountability » Thu May 01, 2014 9:22 am

this is an article published april 30
Spell out steps you took to be spiritual head since 2011, Bombay HC tells Syedna’s uncle ?????

Mumbai: The Bombay high court on Tuesday asked the uncle of the 53rd Syedna of the Dawoodi Bohras to spell out what he did to establish his right as the spiritual head since 2011 when his nephew was publicly pronounced the successor by the late Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin.

Justice Gautam Patel was hearing a suit filed by Khuzaima Qutbuddin to declare himself as the 53rd Dai-al-Mutlaq or spiritual head saying, he was privately anointed by his half-brother, the late Syedna, in December 1965 and asked to reveal it only at an appropriate time. Among interim reliefs, he sought restraint on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin from acting as the spiritual head.

But Justice Patel posed preliminary questions for Qutbuddin to reply. He asked about the requirements for pronouncing a Syedna's successor. "Witnesses, publicity and acceptance by the community at large; are these the essential requirements?" he said. Also, since the 2011 public pronouncement of Saifuddin as the successor-designate, Justice Patel asked, "what has the plaintiff (Qutbuddin) done to establish his right"? He also questioned if the HC had the jurisdiction to hear a suit for the possession of moveable property attached to the office.

The judge's queries followed the reply that was filed on behalf of Saifuddin by Qaidjoher Ezzudin, his constituted attorney and the eldest son of the late Syedna, opposing interim relief for Qutbuddin.

Ezzuddin stated that there was "overwhelming evidence" that Saifuddin was chosen by the late Dai to be his successor and between 2011—when he was appointed the successor —and January 2014—when the 52nd Dai passed away—Saifuddin "operated within the community as the successor-designate". Also, after his father's demise, Saifuddin was given misaq (oath of allegiance) by 500 Jamaats all over the world and high dignitaries.

The reply said Qutbuddin "is a self-proclaimed pretender", seeking recognition based on an alleged private conversation without witnesses and without evidence. It also denied alienation of properties saying that they were vested in trusts governed by the Bombay Public Trusts Act.

Qutbuddin's senior advocate Ravi Kadam sought time to file a rejoinder to the Syedna's reply, saying it included issues of doctrine. "We'll produce religious texts to establish our case," he said. Kadam said Saifuddin's pleading from 2011-14 "shows the source is the hospital bed". "After the 52nd Dai's death, now the case is different. That pronouncement was made in 1969, 1994 and 2005 and only reconfirmation was done in 2011," he added.

Justice Patel declined Kadam's plea to pass an order for access to Qutbuddin to his office in Saifee Mahal and his apartment at Al Azhar. "They say they are not preventing you," said Justice Patel.

The next hearing is posted on June 16.

Judge had asked the same questions, i was asking of mazoon saheb, what did he do prior to claiming as Dai. As mazoon druing last 50 years hes could have done a lot for community. he could have asserted his prowess as mazoon and stopped yusuf najmuddin and his sons from ripping our community, he could have even stopped shahzadas from like malik bhaisaheb to intimidate community.what malik bhaisaheb did in karachi in late eighties is horrenous. jamat secretary sh burhani was thrwon acid on his face, he made peoples life miserable. mazoon saheb should have known all this what was happening.but he remained silent spectator, i do think he is also the beneficiery of the system. it is high time he speaks loud and clear about jamat atrocities and let the court know about cruelty and manipulations practiced by present and prevous administration.
i

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#485

Unread post by think » Thu May 01, 2014 11:07 am

From the proceedings of the court it is evident that the dai was appointed on the basis of what he had done for the community and acceptance by the community at large. this is evidenced by the misaak in some 500 jamaats all over the world. But does the honourable court know that this misaak was taken by the amils and bhaisahebs of the jamaats under duress and threat of baraat.
secondly, the post of dai as was the understanding was ordained by the imam in purdah. It is not chosen by popular vote of the community at large. so this point that muffy is elected by popular vote is moot.

khaqsaar
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#486

Unread post by khaqsaar » Thu May 01, 2014 11:49 am

If anybody knows on how to contact Indian judiciary it will be helpful. Because, as members of the community individuals should share their experiences (emails they have received from jamaats etc.) with the judge so the court is able to make the right judgment. It would be helpful as well if people can given reasonable assurances of anonymity.

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#487

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Fri May 02, 2014 2:33 am

Assalam alekum to all the members.
May Allah's mercy be on each one of you.

Hi, I am Ummul Bani from Bangalore, India. Today is my first day on this forum and I want to thank the admin for accepting my registration.
I happened to come across this forum while browsing and ended up following it a bit. I believe it is a great idea to start something of this kind and to be able to express concerns, thoughts etc openly.
Highly appreciated !!

I hope I would be able to contribute productively to this forum. However for now I want to start off with a thought that is going on in my mind for quite sometime.

This is regarding the ' sherbet scene' that occurred in London hospital. It is believed and also known to us that Aqa Maula Syedna Burhanuddin was given sherbet (orally that is) and doctors argue that this would not have been possible since Maula would have choked. In my opinion, it is not necessary that a glass full of sherbet needs to be given and may be that was also the actual case. Just a taste of sherbet is enough too to mark the happy occasion.
Hence I am unable to understand as to why this sherbet consumption is exaggerated way beyond.

Also, the doctors would be constantly monitoring his health which means that, if he did consume that much then that would have come to the doctors' attention. This in turn means that the doctors would have directly known this fact and not through anyone else.
I think the extreme cases are catching everyone's attention, that is having a glass full or not having it at all, but as I mentioned above just a tasting would have happened as that also serves the purpose.


I thought of sharing this as I did not come across much on this topic ( may be I missed it if mentioned somewhere). Did anyone else have a similar thought?


If the post is too big for a beginner like me and if I have posted something that may trigger someone here, I sincerely apologise.


Thanks.
Ummul Bani.

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#488

Unread post by adna_mumin » Fri May 02, 2014 9:45 am

Welcome Sister Ummul Bani.

You can use the 'Search' feature on the top right hand corner of the page to see if something has been discussed before if you like.
No need to worry about length of post as long as you are convinced of the content yourself.

Now coming to your question, it is not as much as drinking or tasting the 'sherbet' but the fact that such a improvement in health of Moula ra has NOT been reported to medical staff that raises SERIOUS question marks on whether the said event occurred at all !!

Think about it for a second. If a family member is admitted to hospital and has had a stroke couple days before. And today he/she sits upright and talks clearly and among other things tastes/drinks something, WHY WOULD YOU NOT TELL THE DOCTOR/STAFF ABOUT IT?

And curious enough the same people who would normally take Moulana RA pictures at every event, THEY DID NOT CARE TO PHOTO/VIDEO RECORD THE MOST IMPORTANT, AMAL SALEH OF HIS?

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#489

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Fri May 02, 2014 1:04 pm

Ummul Bani wrote:Assalam alekum to all the members.
May Allah's mercy be on each one of you.

Hi, I am Ummul Bani from Bangalore, India. Today is my first day on this forum and I want to thank the admin for accepting my registration.
I happened to come across this forum while browsing and ended up following it a bit. I believe it is a great idea to start something of this kind and to be able to express concerns, thoughts etc openly.
Highly appreciated !!

I hope I would be able to contribute productively to this forum. However for now I want to start off with a thought that is going on in my mind for quite sometime.

This is regarding the ' sherbet scene' that occurred in London hospital. It is believed and also known to us that Aqa Maula Syedna Burhanuddin was given sherbet (orally that is) and doctors argue that this would not have been possible since Maula would have choked. In my opinion, it is not necessary that a glass full of sherbet needs to be given and may be that was also the actual case. Just a taste of sherbet is enough too to mark the happy occasion.
Hence I am unable to understand as to why this sherbet consumption is exaggerated way beyond.

Also, the doctors would be constantly monitoring his health which means that, if he did consume that much then that would have come to the doctors' attention. This in turn means that the doctors would have directly known this fact and not through anyone else.
I think the extreme cases are catching everyone's attention, that is having a glass full or not having it at all, but as I mentioned above just a tasting would have happened as that also serves the purpose.


I thought of sharing this as I did not come across much on this topic ( may be I missed it if mentioned somewhere). Did anyone else have a similar thought?


If the post is too big for a beginner like me and if I have posted something that may trigger someone here, I sincerely apologise.


Thanks.
Ummul Bani.
Welcome to the forum.

Not a good idea to give away your name and a location as "small" as Bangalore with a not so common name.

They will zero in on you quite quickly.

SKQ Fan
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:51 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#490

Unread post by SKQ Fan » Fri May 02, 2014 3:08 pm

Two scenarios keep on playing in my mind regarding this court case. One is a nightmarish. What if God Forbid Muffadal BS wins this case due to muscle and money power? What would happen to our beleaguered brothers and sisters who have been misguided into believing him to be the rightful Dai? An unprecedented era of loot and terror will be unleashed on the community. Plunder will continue unabated and unchallenged as the only courageous and truthful challenger will be vanquished. Women will be confined to their homes and roti making will become the new norm for women to gain raza and khushi of their Moula. Roti making contests will become a regular affair and the only attribute prospective bridegrooms will look for in their brides will be ability to make rotis.Beards will grow longer and hearts and iman shorter.Masjids and Markaz will be transformed into cinema halls and his videos will be replayed on every occasion. Fard Namaz will become shorter and faster( a diversion that must be endured keeping muffadalis from their real ibadat of glorifying their master) and non Farz namaz for his tulull umar will become longer .This will be followed by chants of Har Har Muffadal by frenzied Muffadalis.
SEDs will roam around every Bohra Mohalla and town and will be trained by D gang on how to do a better job at extortion and terrorize their helpless prey
Now the happy scenario Qutbuddin Moula wins ; an era of unprecedented prosperity and tranquility for the community . Islamic doctrine will rule coupled with modern and contemporary thinking. Education and ilm will be given precedence over wealth. Moula will be accessible to all and no threat of Baraat on any wayward individual who may go against him . Women will be empowered and equal to men, . Simplicity and Honesty a trait of our Moula Qutbuddin will be inculcated in all momineen. Money and all assistance will be given to the needy. I could go on and on but to put it in a nutshell a golden era indeed.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#491

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri May 02, 2014 10:31 pm

SKQ may win the case but not win over the Abdes

I have tried to forecast the future with SKQ as the winner

It will be a minority jamaat

People should understand the case may be decided or hung . It is a civil case there could be no victors but a settlement .

Some one will run out of funds and drop the case

The way is while the case is going on SKQ should start visiting the masjids becoming public move to Saify Mahal as SMS stated no one is preventing him, with bodyguards

The best outcome for reformists from SKQ battled which we are grateful will weaken SMS initial plans. Some years of tranquility

People now have a choice to stand up to SMS , join SKQ or go to PDB

Divide and rule

Gradual spring after a long and dark winter

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#492

Unread post by Sufi monk » Fri May 02, 2014 10:44 pm

SKQ group will remain minority but they will be more organized more knowledgeable and also more prosperous,
while MS group will continue with ghoda/ghada parade and coconut collection.

after few years no one will remember what really was the cause of this divide, unless some third party start collecting all this events in a form of a book.

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#493

Unread post by alam » Sat May 03, 2014 2:02 am

Open Letter to Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin
Date 3 rd May 2014
Respected Syedna Mufaddal,

Subject excommunication:

Pleased to know through your lawyers that you are not threatening excommunication with dire consequences to followers of Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin.

As you understand, some of our (includong yours) immediate family members, relatives and friends who were once with us are now following Qutbuddin Saheb. Peace and harmony in this short life on earth is precious. It would be nice if you could publicly show compassion and tolerance to those who believe something different from your own loyal followers. After all, they too are our family members, and yours too, as I come to understand now. Kindly extend fairness and justice to all community members with regard to social boycott and excommunication.

Respectfully submitted on Behalf of all Mumineens suffering during this turmoil.

Invictius
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#494

Unread post by Invictius » Sat May 03, 2014 4:38 am

adna_mumin wrote:Welcome Sister Ummul Bani.

You can use the 'Search' feature on the top right hand corner of the page to see if something has been discussed before if you like.
No need to worry about length of post as long as you are convinced of the content yourself.

Now coming to your question, it is not as much as drinking or tasting the 'sherbet' but the fact that such a improvement in health of Moula ra has NOT been reported to medical staff that raises SERIOUS question marks on whether the said event occurred at all !!

Think about it for a second. If a family member is admitted to hospital and has had a stroke couple days before. And today he/she sits upright and talks clearly and among other things tastes/drinks something, WHY WOULD YOU NOT TELL THE DOCTOR/STAFF ABOUT IT?

And curious enough the same people who would normally take Moulana RA pictures at every event, THEY DID NOT CARE TO PHOTO/VIDEO RECORD THE MOST IMPORTANT, AMAL SALEH OF HIS?
adna_mumin,

If such photo/video evidence of the London Hospital Nass does come to light, will it change your views? I think not. In matters of faith, proof and evidence is nothing. That defies the very purpose of faith. Even if such photo/video was presented and shown before the honourable court, you will claim that it was tampered and adulterated, and in fact, fake. You will cite that unlimited technology is available in today's modern age to tamper photos/videos etc. Even if the court verifies and proves such evidence after examination by experts, you will claim this is still false.

Read - http://www.iep.utm.edu/faith-re/

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#495

Unread post by true_bohra » Sat May 03, 2014 4:46 am

@invictius:

They have already done this. The diary entry of Miyasaheb Shk Ibrahim Al yamani has been termed as fake and tampered. So will be the response for the video and other evidences.

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#496

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sat May 03, 2014 4:49 am

true_bohra wrote:@invictius:

They have already done this. The diary entry of Miyasaheb Shk Ibrahim Al yamani has been termed as fake and tampered. So will be the response for the video and other evidences.
who is Shk Ibrahim Al yamani ? was he above rutba of mazoon?

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#497

Unread post by true_bohra » Sat May 03, 2014 4:52 am

Was ex Mazoon's testimony above the testimony of Syedna Mohammed BUrhanuddin RA

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#498

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sat May 03, 2014 5:05 am

true_bohra wrote:Was ex Mazoon's testimony above the testimony of Syedna Mohammed BUrhanuddin RA
of course not,

kindly bring clear cut testimony from SMB in his own words, not just me but I am pretty sure almost everyone will believe init.
in absence of such testimony mazoon has to be trusted? isnt it?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#499

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat May 03, 2014 6:16 am

Invictius wrote: In matters of faith, proof and evidence is nothing. That defies the very purpose of faith.
Interesting point ! So, what is the foundation of faith ? and how does one trust that their faith in something is in the right direction ? Shall we believe in something and someone because they said so ! its matter of faith ?

Doubting SKQ’s claim and deeming him liar, raises questions on upbringing of STS family. Can the faith in STS be questioned here ? SMB’s agreement to keep SKQ mazoon, can the faith in SMB be questioned here too ?

Reaction of SMS to SKQ’s claims were abusive, panicky and smack of frustration ! not a sign of truthful leader ! since then we have seen contradictory statements, clandestine schemes and false accusation flying from SMS camp. Does this call for faith in SMS ? Is SKQ a true leader ? I don’t know ! only if we experience his leadership we can tell !

As a commoner how does their leadership values affect me and my faith in them to lead me. Just because SMB proclaimed “nuss” on SMS, does he have my faith in him ? The rules and regulations of the daawat surrounding rutbaas and succession is twisted to suit respective stands from both camps ! Such is the irony that they both are throwing mud at beliefs created by their forefathers !

Faith is under questioning ! not because of the nuss event, but the actions of the leaders, I need proof and evidences to place my faith in these leaders, and they have my faith if they can practice what they preach ! their attitude is proof and lifestyle evident enough to misplace my faith in them !

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#500

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sat May 03, 2014 8:08 am

humanbeing wrote:
Invictius wrote: In matters of faith, proof and evidence is nothing. That defies the very purpose of faith.
Interesting point ! So, what is the foundation of faith ? and how does one trust that their faith in something is in the right direction ? Shall we believe in something and someone because they said so ! its matter of faith ?

Doubting SKQ’s claim and deeming him liar, raises questions on upbringing of STS family. Can the faith in STS be questioned here ? SMB’s agreement to keep SKQ mazoon, can the faith in SMB be questioned here too ?

Reaction of SMS to SKQ’s claims were abusive, panicky and smack of frustration ! not a sign of truthful leader ! since then we have seen contradictory statements, clandestine schemes and false accusation flying from SMS camp. Does this call for faith in SMS ? Is SKQ a true leader ? I don’t know ! only if we experience his leadership we can tell !

As a commoner how does their leaėdership values affect me and my faith in them to lead me. Just because SMB proclaimed “nuss” on SMS, does he have my faith in him ? The rules and regulations of the daawat surrounding rutbaas and succession is twisted to suit respective stands from both camps ! Such is the irony vthat they both are throwing mud at beliefs created by their forefathers !

Faith is under questioning ! not because of the nuss event, but the actions of the leaders, I need proof and evidences to place my faith in these leaders, and they have my faith if they can practice what they preach ! their attitude is proof and lifestyle evident enough to misplace my faith in them !
excellent, very well written, infact u had written my thoughts. I fail to understand y this people dont understand that faith doesnt come automatically it comes slowly n gradually after realizing/experiencing the works done by the holy people. Most of the member in this site says we have faith, but can you'll tell us how or why you believe smb/sms so much ? Below r few things which should be an eye opener and question yourself whether ur all faith is with right man or not.

1. Hunting of animals
2. False Claiming of property (Saifi Mahal)
3. No welfare for poor people

Above mentioned r the only basic things n does not require rocket science to understand the character of any holy person. i m too non follower of skq but i think we should give him chance expecting that he can do something good for our community.

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#501

Unread post by alam » Sat May 03, 2014 11:25 am

People require Mojiza to confirm their faith. They can cite several Mojiza stories, as proof of evidence for their faith.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#502

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat May 03, 2014 7:06 pm

watsup msg:-

These are deliberations in the court and each one will present his arguments. The only difference is that we get to hear the SMS side as their PR machinery is at work and they are creating an atmosphere and Fateh Mubin is subtly being declared. Remember SKQ camp is very small in numbers and so is their administration, they simply do not have the access to reach out to all abdes. But be sure of one thing that SKQ has STS's blood in his veins. He is not stupid to make such a declaration at such an age and such a time. He could have clearly lived off the millions from his dedicated mazars whose collection goes to his pockets. SKQ is after all also the brother of YN !! He must be having ample, strong, leakproof evidences in his favour to take such a drastic step. You can imagine that the evidence and arguments must be so strong that even his intelligent and highly educated children have given him unconditional support. Surely their decision is not an emotional one. He has his secret trump card that is why he has made such a claim. You must also note that eminent people like Muchala and Justice Ahmedi are backing him. So lets wait and see. The situation cannot be judged now as the judiciary in India is not so corrupt at such high levels. This is a high profile case where money is not a concern. Both will fight at abde bohras expense. The fatality of SKQ might be the overwhelming support SMS has in numbers. If the judiciary wants to maintain peace then they will take the option of the majority card. You never know. For an intelligent bohra it is best to keep quiet, enjoy the messages and make money. For the Dai fearing bohra it is best to do their bit and least of all forward misleading messages.

maxthemature
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#503

Unread post by maxthemature » Sat May 03, 2014 10:08 pm

To
​Tahera Q and Siblings,
www.fatemidawat.com

This is with reference to the numerous emails, whats app, and text /sms spam that my family and I have received from your fraction since the wafaat of Al-Muqaddas Moula Burhanuddin RA. This is to warn you all to cease and desist from sending us any further spam. We are not interested in your firqa’s offered justification of what is in our eyes is a gross betrayal by your father (Khuzaima Qutbuddin -KQ) of the trust and the high rutba he was bestowed by Al Muqaddas Burhanuddin Moula RA.

Since we have been spammed with so many claims and counter-claims from your firqa, I will list a few of my observations which render’s KQ justifications and explanations as redundant. The falsity of KQ claim is apparent to all mumeneen. Much has already been said by your side and effectively countered by ours.

To avoid repetition of what has been countered before in “53 Reasons” blog, your timing of the claim has removed any doubts in any logical mind that KQ’s claims were only for worldly possessions. I have come across cases where children of a deceased person, have observed atleast 40 days of mourning, as a mark of respect for the deceased, before raking up inheritance issues. Your father didn’t even wait for dafan of Al Muqaddas Moula RA to make his false claim. It’s an action that exposes to the intellectuals that the claim was only for the coffers of Dawat and not out of the duty, love or devotion towards Burhanuddin Moula RA, Dawat or his followers. This is not an action of a civilized person let alone a claimant to the Dai Al Mutlaq position.

While mumeneen were praying for a long and healthy life of Burhanuddin Moula RA, your treacherous clan was busy scheming and preparing for Moula RA’s wafaat. This became evident when your website popped up at the wafaat of Burhanuddin Moula RA. Your clan had reportedly, illegally acquired contact data of worldwide mumeneen and recordings of various occasions. Using the alleged stolen intellectual properties is also not an action of a decent person let alone a claimant to the lofty position of Dai Al Mutlaq.

Your website had to pull down the video that they had put up, where we once again heard our Moula RA say “Bhai Mufaddal par nass nu taj” clearly. There was no further room for any more debate. But since you had embarked on a path of no return, you started grasping for straws. You twisted, cherry picked statements and quotes in the futile hope that it would somehow lay some iota of credence to your clan’s false claim.

Another nail in the coffin of your father’s claim was your father’s inability to layout his legal challenge when it came up before the Mumbai Judge who disclosed that he had the privilege to have received an audience and a tashreef of shawl from Burhanuddin Moula RA earlier. If indeed your father was Burhanuddin Moula RA’s true Mansoos, he would have taken that as a sign of good tidings and would have proceeded. But it appears that your father felt threatened that the Judge would have firsthand knowledge of the great personality and functioning of Burhanuddin Moula RA. It would further dim his scant chances to throw spanner in the normal working of Dawat-e-Hadiyah and sought that his case be heard by some other Judge. This clearly shows that his confidence is elsewhere and not with Burhanuddin Moula RA.

Or perhaps the actual problem is that your father cannot publicly say that although he accepts 51st Dai, he has reservations about the 52nd Dai. Admitting that publicly would effectively destroy the very foundation of his claim to be the 53rd Dai.

To prove his claim that Burhanuddin Moula appointed KQ as his heir since last fifty years, he has to convince mumeneen, to win them over, (and the courts too) that after Burhanuddin Moula RA suffered a stroke, those attending to Burhanuddin Moula RA allegedly staged the Nass on Saifuddin Moula TUS. That changed the ground situation “which denied KQ the portfolios, duties and functions that were managed or entrusted to him by Burhanuddin Moula RA as his so-called successor.

For this, he needs to list out what he was actually deprived of during the last three years pursuant to the Nass. I looked for it, but didn’t find a single important portfolio or duties that Burhanuddin Moula TUS had entrusted to KQ since atleast last 27 -30 years. Amalat, Jamea, Taleem, Kun, Yemen, Mazarat, Qardan Hasanah, Dawat Properties and Trusts, Legal dept , to name a few. The only thing that I came across was that, that he was a figure-head of Shabab ul Iddz Zahabi. As such, he was not involved in any of the Shabab’s activities for decades. KQ was only assigned Ashara Mubaraka and Sherullah khidmat. That khidmat is also assigned to about five hundred plus khidmat guzar every year, there was nothing “heir apparent” about it. So the logical question is why was he not given any of the Dawat’s departments to manage in those fifty years? How is it possible that if Burhanuddin Moula RA appointed your father as his successor, he did not assign him even one significant portfolio or duty! Nor was your father ever found in the khidmat of his Moula RA for most of the last three decades. Nor was he assisting Moula RA in any of Moula RA’s works or tasks.

Jamea and Yemen have always been close to the hearts of Duat Kiraam RA, and Burhanuddin Moula RA chose not to let KQ be associated with either is another precursor that your father had fallen from the grace of Burhanuddin Moula RA. Moula RA entrusted both of these responsibilities to Syedna Aliqader Mufaddal Saifuddin Saheb TUS. “Aaqil ne isharoj kafi che.”

Wouldn’t any predecessor desire his successor to get a feel or grip of the things that he will have to carry on after he succeeds him? Even a small business owner strives to involve his heir in his work so that one day he is familiar and competent enough to manage it. What we realized was, that not only Burhanuddin Moula RA did not give those privileges to KQ, but he had kept your father at arm’s length from the responsibilities of the Dawat’s. These far sighted acts are itself a PROCLAMATION by Burhanuddin Moula RA that your father was never his Mansoos!

Your father was rarely seen with Burhanuddin Moula RA during the last few decades, but we always saw Syedna Aliqader Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS in the shadow of Burhanuddin Moula RA, silently carrying out every wish of Burhanuddin Moula RA and leading mumeneen on the right path.

I believe the most evident change in the stance of Burhanuddin Moula RA towards your father came about 27 years ago after the Africa incidence. Why Burhanuddin Moula RA rebuked his so called successor publicly? If needed, he could have done it privately. Unless KQ’s action were such that must have stretched the limits of Moula RA’s tolerance and Moula RA had apprehension that the unrepentant KQ was likely commit such acts again in the future.

After Moula RA reprimanded KQ in Africa, and KQ remaining unrepentant, we never saw Burhanuddin Moula RA grace KQ with anything except perhaps what basic protocol may have required. We have never seen KQ truly celebrating Milad mubarak of Burhanuddin Moula RA except just filling in his attendance in waaz or functions. Nor we saw him besides Burhanuddin Moula RA in times of challenges, like Bomb at Rozat Tahera, Lanat case etc., nor even in Moula RA’s sickness. When Burhanuddin Moula RA returned to Mumbai after the stroke, KQ fled from Mumbai on the pretext of medical treatment to USA. Whatever the reason he gave then, the truth is evident to us all now. It shows that KQ had blatantly lied then too, it’s definitely not a trait of someone aspiring to be a Dai Al Mutlaq.

So your father was not with Moula RA in celebrating joyous occasions, nor in Ashara Mubaraka, nor when there were challenges, not even when Moula RA suffered the stroke. But the day Moula RA passed away, your father launches a website and claims control of Dawat’s trusts and properties? Can any person with common sense postulate that Moula RA would appoint such an individual as his Mansoos? I can’t.

I believe your clan has forwarded an argument that “Burhanuddin Moula RA did not remove KQ from the rutba of Mazoon.” That is true, but it is a gesture of Burhanuddin Moula RA’s graciousness. By presenting this argument, your clan inadvertently admits that things “behind the curtain” had come to the point where removal of KQ as Mazoon may have been on the table. If removal from Mazoon’s Rutba itself was on table according to your own arguments, then where is the question of appointing him the Mansoos?

Well, for us believers, Saifuddin Moula TUS completed that task on the behalf Burhanuddin Moula RA.!

There are a few among your father’s followers who have natured grudges against some hudood of Burhanuddin Moula RA and some who were looking for a religion of convenience, for those, you do offer them the options to practice that religion of convenience. I can’t see any hope for those. But for the truly misguided souls, I can only pray that may Allah grant those who have gone astray, the taofeeq to see through the selfish motives that your clan has in using them to achieve your personal vendetta, and may they revert back to the rightful path.

Your clan takes great pride in the doctorates and other degrees they that have received. I have seen extracts of the thesis written by your clan that leads readers away from Burhanuddin Moula RA and Dawat-e-Hadiyah. So the writers are not actually the followers but are dissenters of the Dai Al Mutlaq Burhanuddin Moula RA and thereby all his predecessors. Now the very dissenters claim to be the successor of the holy office they dissented, disrespected and disavowed! It’s ridiculous!

Instead of our Al Jamea tus Saifiyah, which Moula RA said was his zaat mubarak, your clan went to other universities to study deen. To me, it’s like going to Arctic Circle to do research on the origins of Kabatullah! I am not trying to demean the education and resources provided by other esteemed institutions, but it’s that, that your actions are not in line with the belief and practices of mumin who goes to his/her Moula for any worldly or deeni matters. There are many others who have procured doctorates and other degrees from various other universities, but they had their original source of deeni ilm from Burhanuddin Moula RA.

Taking this argument forward, lets say, you found better resources in those institutions to do your thesis then perhaps what you could have got from Burhanuddin Moula RA. It meant that you believed that your doctorate guides at the universities had better command on deeni subjects then Burhanuddin Moula RA himself. So if your father inherited from Burhanuddin Moula RA then he too was inferior to your doctorate guides because he could not have more knowledge of deen then his own predecessor. Then perhaps those thesis guides are better suited to be your moula then your own father.

Here are some of the issues that demonstrate to me your clan’s grasping for straws and twisting facts to form devious parallel and mislead.

When your father openly laid this claim, few people who switched allegiance, sent your clan’s drafted letters in which one of the things justifying their switch was comparing themselves to Shohoda e Karbala. Every mumin knows that there cannot not be any parallel between those azeem Shohoda e Karbala and your few mislead followers.

Numerous times Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA and Syedna Burhanuddin RA have said in bayan that “Duat Mutlaqeen are not lesser than the Shohoda e Karbala.”

In light of the above bayaan, if your clan brainwashes their followers to perceive themselves as equal to Shohoda e Karbala, that means that all your disciples are of the similar stature of Dai Al Mutlaq. Hence your clan’s man-servant like Shabbir Ujjaini is parallel to your father who claims to be Dai Al Mutlaq. Further, Ujjaini being a “Shohoda” and since women in eman are not allowed to fight battles, you cannot be a Shaheed, therefore Ujjaini being parallel to your father is also your new moula, and so are all of your father’s other male followers. Hence you are actually a “bandi”(a humble servant) of Shabbir Ujjaini and others and not a “shezadi” to them.

Yet you get your “moula ujjaini” to do your daily household chores. Is this how your firqa requires people supposedly of parallel in stature to Shohoda e Karbala and Dai to do household chores for your clan?

Do you expect that mumeneen cannot see through your phony arguments, that you are twisting facts, precedence and misinterpreting deen to suite your convenience? Do you think mumeneen, will ever forgive you for comparing your followers of the likes of Shabbir Ujjaini with the Shohoda e Karbala like Moulana Abbas e Alamdar AS and others? I pray that may Moulana Abbas AS gives you all a befitting reply very soon. Ameen.

No matter what your clan resort to lure people with, what comes to my mind is what Allah said to Iblees; “you will never be able to misguide my true followers.”

If your clan’s objective was to deprive us mumeneen of solace while grieving for our Moula RA, you succeeded. But if the objective was to win over the hearts of mumeneen and /or get control of the coffers of Dawat, you failed miserably.

We all know that your father had called on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin Moula TUS and had araz his tehniyaat on being appointed Mansoos. KQ had also publicly asserted to the nass on Saifuddin Moula TUS in Toronto waaz and your brother had asserted to the nass in Ujjain waaz. Then whose stupidity drove your clan to do a complete U-turn and embark on this disastrous journey?

Was it because what was initially a sibling rivalry between few Hudood kiram and KQ, turned into KQ’s frustration and hatred for those Hudood? Or when your father lost grace in the eyes of Burhanuddin Moula RA, he took hatred against his own Moula RA? Or was it because you are your siblings were discontent, wanted more money and power, and could not see any role for themselves in Dawat? Did they compel their father to make this false claim and had convinced him that by using internet and media they would “get a pound of flesh for themselves”?

I guess, the time will eventually tell.

Unless you are living in a fictional world, you cannot expect to win these court cases. You may be able to prolong it, but there are no genuine legal grounds for you to win. Once your new followers have been drained by spending their hard-earned money for your vendetta, what will you do then? What would you have gained from this misadventure? I recall someone quoted Adamji Peerbhai chokrao, after losing the court cases, saying “dimag ni masti hati.” Well…., see where it has got them today from where they were once.

I reiterate, your clan’s communication to us is unsolicited. Cease and desist from sending my family any further communication through any means.
And on yes not to forget how u ran away from the court like pussies soon u wud dissappear permenantly!!

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#504

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sat May 03, 2014 11:04 pm

it is not possible to receive such emails unless u urself subscribe to it, if u are really frustrated by haq just click on unsubscribe link and join coconut collector in his coconut collection drive. :wink: and be happy with him in his monkey dance in yemen. :mrgreen:

your post is so pathetic in nature I wont waste time in replying to it....if you can't respect mazoon who served dawat for 50 years,nothing more can be expected from you.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 424
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#505

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sun May 04, 2014 2:13 am

Max, Mufaddal Saifuddin personifies the horse that has been taken to the pond but not made to drink. His years in the physical proximity of Burhanuddin Aqa RA have been wasted. We see that he has inherited all the offices and not one character trait from our Muqaddas Moula. Even if MS had spent another hundred years in close proximity to Burhanuddin Moula, he would not be able to match the ilm and quiet dignity of Syedna Qutbuddin.
If you think that following Syedna Qutbuddin is a matter "of convenience" for us, you should walk one day in our shoes brother. Your lot has driven us out of our homes, provoked hatred against us, harassed us with indecent phone calls and torn apart families with baraat. Some of us are better equipped to deal with this than others but our stand for truth has affected us all negatively in degrees. Yet we persevere as it's a small price to pay for the peace that comes from being on haqq. You should reflect on who actually has chosen the leader as a matter of convenience. Look in the mirror. Every single one of the hundreds of phone calls we, who are out in the open receive, voice their support in private but not in public because they have family members who find it "inconvenient" to give up their existing social networks. Others are just fearful of the impact their actions will have on family members entrenched in Bohra mohallas. They find themselves trapped in the MS reign of terror and fear things will get worse. For every blindly worshipping follower of MS, there are two who question where the community is headed. You don't know that but we do. They have nothing to fear from us so they don't hide their identities when they call us. So don't kid yourself that MS has been moulded in his father's image by his physical proximity. One can't cure stupid , sorry to say. It is only a matter of time before revolution swells among our brothers and sisters.

soulsurvivor
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:20 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#506

Unread post by soulsurvivor » Sun May 04, 2014 4:35 am

@ Mustansir g "Doubting SKQ’s claim and deeming him liar, raises questions on upbringing of STS family. Can the faith in STS be questioned here ? SMB’s agreement to keep SKQ mazoon, can the faith in SMB be questioned here too ? "

This is a very valid point. So did SMB change his mind? thinking if SKQ would rule what would SMS do?? They would all have to bow to SKQ the step brother of SMB..very clever I guess.. change the players and let the game stay on. Especially when SMS was already trying to fortify his army..Mr.Max you can sleep in your waterbed of blind faith.. Faith is far different from blind faith.

No one could match SMB's status and his spirituality but unfortunately people below his used his image and capitalized it..Aamils, Kothars to shks and mullahs. Oppression had already struck by the time SMB could arbitrate and solve every issue. So He left it to Allah and with time things will take its own course.

Why can't students be left free to choose and decide who they want as their teacher in the class room?? There is already another classroom? Labs and grounds have to be shared. :D

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#507

Unread post by wise_guy » Sun May 04, 2014 7:30 pm

"Do not curse the dead, for they have already gone forth to what they have sent." - Al Bukhari.
shehzaada wrote:both the burhanuddin, tahersaifuddin, his father and sons are the arch devils , I suspect them to rot in hell , Allah gave them all the luxuries in this world and now Allah will inshallah inflict both with humiliating punishment .
Ameen

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#508

Unread post by Rebel » Sun May 04, 2014 9:25 pm

I would think that the entire machinery of the mullah group is the group of devils who have been trained to humiliate and subjugate us. We being their ghulams they have coerced us into doing things against our wishes and feelings. The have inflicted pain and suffering to many individuals and families. Only the reformist movement stood up against their evil deeds and practices. But, alas! their movement has mellowed up for some unknown reasons.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#509

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon May 05, 2014 3:18 am

Many a times I find this argument very lame and baseless of Kothari Representatives humiliating and oppressing the masses. World is not fair, we face humiliation and oppression in every field of life. We need to stand up for ourselves and defend our honor ! We all have devils inside us and at many events in our lives we humiliate or oppress someone out of ego or personal gains. We too deep inside are scheming, greedy and dishonest. Life is a struggle all the time.

Apart from philosophy, practically; communicating with office holders of Kothar be it a khidmatguzaar or Dai, one has to keep his / her self-respect in perspective. If one is asked to bend and they start crawling, then they cannot go outside and start crying humiliation. And the ones who don’t bend, must maintain their side of composure and etiquettes and not resort to aggressive behavior !

I have observed many a times, commoners will loose their cool and create a scene over slight provocation from jamaat member, end-result is a battle where jamaat always wins and the loud mouth commoner is calmed down either by hook or crook.

But to apply such sanity and composure against jamaat members, one has to be liberated from their make-believe-spiritual clutches and consider jamaat as mere materialistic service provider. If you want the service, negotiate till the extent one feels justified. Nothing comes free in this world or hereafter. The “world” needs money and “life after” needs deeds ! if not kothar, there are other service providers too.

james
Posts: 598
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#510

Unread post by james » Mon May 05, 2014 3:50 am

humanbeing wrote:Many a times I find this argument very lame and baseless of Kothari Representatives humiliating and oppressing the masses. World is not fair, we face humiliation and oppression in every field of life. We need to stand up for ourselves and defend our honor ! We all have devils inside us and at many events in our lives we humiliate or oppress someone out of ego or personal gains. We too deep inside are scheming, greedy and dishonest. Life is a struggle all the time.

Apart from philosophy, practically; communicating with office holders of Kothar be it a khidmatguzaar or Dai, one has to keep his / her self-respect in perspective. If one is asked to bend and they start crawling, then they cannot go outside and start crying humiliation. And the ones who don’t bend, must maintain their side of composure and etiquettes and not resort to aggressive behavior !

I have observed many a times, commoners will loose their cool and create a scene over slight provocation from jamaat member, end-result is a battle where jamaat always wins and the loud mouth commoner is calmed down either by hook or crook.

But to apply such sanity and composure against jamaat members, one has to be liberated from their make-believe-spiritual clutches and consider jamaat as mere materialistic service provider. If you want the service, negotiate till the extent one feels justified. Nothing comes free in this world or hereafter. The “world” needs money and “life after” needs deeds ! if not kothar, there are other service providers too.
What has your post got to do with the Legal Case ?

Have you mistaken this thread for a blog ?