Guidance needed for funeral

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huzefa786
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:07 pm

Guidance needed for funeral

#1

Unread post by huzefa786 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:21 pm

Bismillah

I wanted to get your advice on how to conduct funeral of my parents as I am officially excommunicated and my parents are old enough and dont understand these religious issues . We have a rich and highly influential relative in the top clergy who meddles in our private matter and I suspect that they would pay for my parents and get them buried in the bohra qabrstaan , whereas I dont want them to get buried in bohra qabrastaan as they themselves dont believe in the daee but just want to remain in bohra society. I think I should be prepared for that day with all the legal options to not allow anyone except myself to do the funeral of my parents , ideally I dont want them to be buried in bohra qabrastan as a trendsetter to show people that we dont need to depend on the Amils etc. I dont want a single penny to be earned by them on death of my parent.So can anyone suggest what legal preparations to do for this while not making these things public till the time of the death, also practically I see that if one of my parent dies than a huge ruckus would be created over this issue which will make it difficult to do the same for other parent?

Note: I am married with kids.

Humsafar
Posts: 2531
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Guidance needed

#2

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:56 pm

Huzefa,
Your stance is commendable. It is important to show that we are not dependent on this corrupt system. Every Bohra must start doing this. In which city do you live? Check with a local Muslim community and find out whether they will allow burial of your parents. As far as I know there are no "legal" issues involved. You may have to pay for the burial plot and services. It is not really that complicated. Others on this Forum I'm sure can give you more practical advice. Best.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#3

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:08 pm

Humsafar is right. Go to a different Muslim community. Start by visiting their mosque. Either a Sunni or another Shia mosque. I would say that the path of least resistance would be a Sunni mosque. Other shia mosques might have the same issues as the bohras have. Tell them the truth. Tell them you are ready to pay the expenses and give them the reasons for why you want to bury your parents there as against a bohra qabrastan. They will be more than willing to help you out.

Habeel
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#4

Unread post by Habeel » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:50 pm

Huzefa, which country do you live?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:09 pm

Bro huzefa 786,

As others have rightly suggested that there are no issues if you chose to bury them in a sunni qabrastan and you don't even have to pay through your nose, infact according to me there is no need to give any money at all, at the most you may have to pay some petty amounts which are very nominal. However if you chose to bury them in a Bohra qabrastan then too you can have your way and refuse to pay a single dime if you are able to take them head on, which I think you are capable of. If at all Kothar refuses to bury your parents then you can straight away lodge a complaint at the nearest police station and human rights organisation. Remember that Kothar CANNOT legally prevent you from burying your parents in Bohra qabrastan as the land for all the Muslim qabrastans, Christian graveyards and Hindu crematoriums are given FREE by the Indian government. Bohras keep on paying these Kafan Chors only due to the threat of excommunication and fear of getting alienated from Bohra circles as otherwise there is no way that Kothar can force you to pay for burials.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#6

Unread post by seeker110 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:14 pm

It is shame that we have to be separated as different types of Muslims.

I would agree with Br. Anajmi on this one. Personal experience. calif.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#7

Unread post by think » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:09 pm

There are cities and towns in u.s. where there is no bohra qabrastaan. Many have been buried in christian cemetary and on some occasions a small area is purchased by the shia or sunni community and they willingly oblidge to bury the dead. Burrying in a christian cemetary and using their facility for namaze janaaza prayer and ghusul of the dead may be the ideal and least stressful as they have all the facility also if you cannot pay for their services they are very co operative. They will not throw your dead loved ones out of their qabrastaan or even dig the grave and throw the dead body on the streets.

SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#8

Unread post by SBM » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:37 pm

If you live in USA or Canada please contact your local chapter of ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) and they will guide you the right contact person or the Mosque, Another organization is ICNA (Islamic Center of North America)

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#9

Unread post by monginis » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:59 pm

talk with sunni ulema and tell them situation, remain prepared.

good luck brother and good work.

shehzaada
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#10

Unread post by shehzaada » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:53 pm

Mashallah, firstly congrats for getting excommunicated and being cheerful about it that itself is a big achievement .secondly I see that in your case its the relatives which can bring trouble hence best to not inform them until you have finished the funeral. You should be very quick in burying the dead (as quick as burying in half an hour)specially in this situation as there are external influences which can disrupt it or subvert it. For this to happen you have to be prepared in advanced and seek written permission from sunni qabrastan. You have to convince them that you parents dont believe in the syedna and that would be enough.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#11

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu May 01, 2014 5:05 am

Huzefa

Have you discussed this concern with your parents ? They also want to rest in a non-bohra qabrastaan ? If you have their agreement. Get it in writing as much official as you can. Like a WILL or AFFIDAVIT making you the nominee of their final rites and VICE VERSA !

huzefa786
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:07 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#12

Unread post by huzefa786 » Thu May 01, 2014 9:33 am

Thanks for you advices. It seems MY PARENTS wont like this idea. And they themselves would want to get buried in Bohra Qabarastan only. But I dont want that to happen hence I wont be discussing this with them at all. I always fear that My relatives could use this argument to takeover the funeral from me and I dont want this to happen. If the relatives get the funeral than I wont be even allowed in that. So is it allowed to keep all this in secret , "dont tell dont ask" "?

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#13

Unread post by anajmi » Thu May 01, 2014 9:51 am

I don't think that is a good idea. If your parents wishes are to be buried in a bohra qabrastan, then that is what you should pursue. Let not your own agenda create problems for your parents.

shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#14

Unread post by shabbir4u » Thu May 01, 2014 11:34 am

anajmi wrote:I don't think that is a good idea. If your parents wishes are to be buried in a bohra qabrastan, then that is what you should pursue. Let not your own agenda create problems for your parents.

I am agree with anajmi atleast you should keep their last wish. Rest in peace.

Mkenya
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#15

Unread post by Mkenya » Thu May 01, 2014 12:59 pm

There has been some very good input and 'do-able' suggestions on this topic.

Having been through the ordeal of my late father, who was a very active and vocal critic, I remember a couple of times he was compelled to get 'welding' done to get back in the fold. I have not participated in Bohra community affairs for many years and as I age (74) I have told my children (all adults) to request, on my death, if the community will perform the burial ceremony. I have told them in case the community raises any issue or places obstructions or coerces to do any 'welding' whatsoever to just seek assistance from any Muslim community. I am very comfortable with my decision.

The task before you is problematic and my prayers are with you that Allah Paak guides you and your family members to take the optimum course. It is always parents' wish that they be buried in a Bohra kabrastan with full dignity and honours. Jazakallah.

shehzaada
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#16

Unread post by shehzaada » Thu May 01, 2014 2:58 pm

My stance is ignore the parents preferences, its more correct to just be silent and dont discuss these matters with parents and unnecessarily strech the issue before the time is ripe. Burying in bohra qabrastan means bowing down to the amils if not you then your relatives. And your relatives may end up paying large sums to cajole the amils into burying them. Why? Parents would have preferences and not all preferences are bound to be fulfilled. Wishes are wishes and some are fulfilled and some should not .

You seem more intelligent and loving for your parents and would you like your parents to be buried with idol (human) worshippers? Azab -e-Qabr is also experienced by neighbors of the grave. The past sahabas etc always wished to be buried alongside pious individuals , saints etc . Hence even if you parents naturally prefer to be buried in bohra qabrstan as all their life they might have been in bohra society that does not mean that society will be carried down to the grave. Some very old parents are like small infants they might not appreciate our foresightedness yet that should not stop us from doing what is best for them.

huzefa786
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:07 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#17

Unread post by huzefa786 » Sat May 03, 2014 2:45 pm

Thanks for your advices , but I would also like to know whether anyone else faced this situation. And what would you people do in this situation would you bend down and bury your parents in Bohra Qabrstan?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#18

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat May 03, 2014 7:24 pm

Bro Huzefa 786,

You should also keep one thing in mind that the amount charged by the Kafan Chors at present is anywhere between Rs.72,000/- to Rs.1 Lac for burial in Charni Road qabrastan. In fact, one of my friend had given Rs.2.52 lacs for burying his parent in Naryalwadi qabrastan some 20 years back as Naryalwadi is like Manhattan and Kausa qabrastan is like Somalia where rates are Rs.5,000/- and odd !! These Kafan Chors extort money for a piece of land which is given FREE by the Government of India !!

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#19

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sat May 03, 2014 8:52 pm

bro Huzefa this is off topic question, but may I ask why u are excommunicated? what was ur crime?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#20

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun May 04, 2014 1:52 am

What is the fixation with qabrastaan ! once a person is dead, burying it 6 feet deep repesectfully is important, rest where and which land is immaterial. You can be strong enough to shoo-off kothari’s pest to create issues for you. Take help from police if they create problems. Pay to them what you feel worth the service to complete the burial.

Be diplomatic and aggressive wherever applicable !

shehzaada
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#21

Unread post by shehzaada » Sun May 04, 2014 7:51 am

I myself would also now take this stance and Inshallah work towards not burying my loved ones in Bohra Qabrastan.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#22

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun May 04, 2014 6:27 pm

humanbeing wrote:What is the fixation with qabrastaan !
It is just like their fixation with "Bohra" Masjids, "Bohra" Jamatkhanas, "Bohra" kazis and "Bohra" Mohallas !! They have been programmed into living in ghetoised environment and anything which doesn't have the "Bohra" tag is alien to them. They are like "kuva me medak" who refuse to come out of their tiny pond and prefer doing trrr trrrr in their own little pond.

bohrabai
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 1:15 am

Re: Guidance needed for funeral

#23

Unread post by bohrabai » Thu May 08, 2014 7:05 am

GM,Yes we need to come out of this mentality