Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

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next_generation2014
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:37 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#841

Unread post by next_generation2014 » Sat May 24, 2014 2:55 am

Mkenya wrote:Forwarding 'as-is' what someone sent to me. More fodder or manure!


I saw the video today at the Masjid. The 1st question is: If they had this video and others, why not show it 3 years back and minimize the split in the community? Did they not have an obligation to do that?

The timing of it? Why now? And there was nothing in terms of time stamp that this was on 3rd Rajab? I assume it was in the Cromwell hospital, but it could have been 10-15th Rajab, when Moula is better and can sit. How do we know it was 3rd Rajab? No reference to any date was made (as best as I could catch the video) and nothing could be proven that this was taken on 3rd Rajab.

I would like to know the answers to the following questions:

• On 3rd Rajab, was Moula in a private room, like this video suggests, or in an intensive care unit (ICU)? Hospital records should show that. If he was in a private room, okay, else there is a disconnect. And if he was in ICU, is this how ICUs look in the Cormwell hospital? If not, that would mean one more lie (??) – and it may be damaging in the courts.

• What is the hospital policy? Do they allow so many people at one time in a room, even a private room? On a Sunday at 9:30 PM? [Weekend policy may be different.]


• And what do the hospital records show in terms of the # of visitors? Does the hospital keep records and did it show all these people on that date and time going into the room?
It was about 9:30 pm (I checked that magrib is about 9:07 PM in London on June 4th) on a Sunday and this is after Magrib.

• And what do the hospital records show of Moula’s health - was he conscious or was he unconscious on 3rd Rajab?

• The # of people in the video. Does it line up with the 6people that Abdul Qadir BS said? It was hard to keep track, but assuming this video is posted online, I would like to review that.

• Who shot this video? That is one more person? Was it from a phone or something else? If something else, how did they have recording equipment right away a few hours after a stroke?

• Right after a stroke would there not be more telemetry and monitoring of a patient? Did not see a lot of telemetry? Is that how he would have been monitored on rajab 3rd? The hospital folks should be asked about it.

• How come nobody came to check on Moula? And if he suddenly became conscious, after he was unconscious, the Shezadas are just going about talking of the nass, qadambosi, etc. I would get very happy and immediately run to the medical staff with the good news, correct?

• Why not after that have some urgency and call the doctor to convey the improvement in the patient’s (Moula’s) health?

• And what happened after this video, assuming it is on 3rd Rajab? After this again Maula became unconscious? Just curious?

• The whole period is more than 90 minutes. Abdul Qadir BS says he looked at the time and it was 8:07 PM. And then they went to get Muffadal Maula and they prayed magrib at Bonham House (Magrib is 9:07 PM) and then they came back. Has to be at least 9:20-9:30 PM. And then this whole video. That is 90 minutes plus. No medical staff came anytime in that whole period to check and be a witness to any of this?

This raises more questions, and if something does not match up with other information, or is in contradiction with other information – that may hurt the case.

One of my concerns is that people may end up seeing in this video what they want to see. I personally have some doubts, but --- will let it be argued by non-Bohra lawyers in court.
Now with the hospital video surfacing, let us study how it changes the dynamics of the situation we have on hand.: We have the SMS camp with their old proofs already in the public domain , now have one more proof, which they can brandish and say that there is now irrevocable evidence that the Nass has taken place on SMS. And the SKQ camp who from the start has maintained that they do not have any such evidence except for the fact that SKQ was the sole witness and recipient of the Nass on him. This is how the facts stand. Now who do you believe: -

Let us dispassionately analyse the video. Firstly as many would say why was the video shown after 4 months why not earlier when everybody’s refrain was that ,that such a video was the crucial evidence missing in the pattern of other evidences put forth by SMS camp. It could have been shown in Saifee Masjid during the mourning period; it could have been shown in Azad Maidan where it could have had a much greater impact as far as public relations are concerned. Or it could have been shown before filing the answer to the petition in the High court or better still it could not have been shown at all but could have been saved to showcase in the Court Case as clinching evidence and lay bare the claim of SKQ that he is the Dai. Why put it in the public domain when the court case is going on and all eyes are on it.

What comes to mind in light of the above is that the SMS camp feeling a little uncomfortable about the fact that SKQ was benefitting from lack of such a video and other pro SKQ material in the public domain whereby it seemed that SKQ was gaining the upper hand, put it out on Syedna TS RA urs so that now his followers can counter SKQ followers more confidently. Also it could have been put out now as SMS having to face a lot of resistance from the public at large on his Saheb E Daawat collection exercise and feeling the pinch cause of public annoyance on ongoing Sabil and Wajebat collection felt that in order to boost the said collections this video at this time will come in handy. With this video the faithful now will contribute to the coffers with much more vigour and the doubters will follow suit.

Later even if the video is subjected to forensic analyses and turns out not to be the clinching evidence that it is being labelled, it does not matter. Immediate purpose is served. And the side benefit is that any doubters who were kneeling more towards SKQ will now abandon that idea.
Now the video per say raises many questions. Is it the same Hospital room where Aka Moula was kept; why is the video in such a bad shape as any mobile phone which the people in the room normally have will not give such a bad performance; why is the video clear in parts where it is important to see certain actions and events; is it Aka Moula's voice and is it really Aka Moula Burhanuddin RA. All such questions will remain unanswered unless proven in court.

SKQ followers in light of all the above probably will now say that if evidence has to be examined and if evidence is the final arbitrator to establish whether SKQ is the Dai, than all the 21 imams and the 52 Dai's before our time's, evidence's will have to examined to come to the conclusion whether we all are on the Right Path. And they will quote Syedna TS RA who said:- everything alive in this world; on this planet will vouch for the Dai because everything in this world owes its existence to the Imam and his Dai. It is made for him, so it will vouch for him.
Let’s now see who measures up to that final test, SKQ or SMS. Only time will tell......
Did he saw the video on Sunday(18-05-2014) or some other day ? after 18th May,that the A/V is not displayed in Masjid.

natkhat pari
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:56 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#842

Unread post by natkhat pari » Sat May 24, 2014 3:02 am

As it apears from audio of hospital nass physical condtion of aqa mola sound like pesron after a major stroke.in video physical condition has improved drastically " bhai ghani khidmat khidi che" to Dr moiz bs sugest that time difrence between audio and video is much more then 24 hrs as shown in waaz

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#843

Unread post by Rebel » Sat May 24, 2014 10:53 am

MUSTAPH wrote:there are lots of articles on this forum and surprisingly its all against SMS and nothing much is said about KQ. but freinds don't you think that how ever community freindly KQ sound now but his gang of sons will be the same after 25years from now when they also have a considerable number of followers behind them. its all power game and its all the same. the change has to come when people understand that the dai is for them to guide them in their religious matters only. dai is not a divine spirit which is going to be taking them to jannat.

well anyways we indians are always wanting a shelter for all our acts and so we need someone to rule us and we are happywith that. so whoever wins we are all going to be slaves only. so don't believe in " achche din aanewale hai " atleast on religious front.
Good analysis - KQ and his so called shezadas and shazadis are of the same lineage and will act and behave in the same manner as kothar in times to come - they are lenient at present because they need people on their side so they have set up websites to impress and attract more people towards them. They are doing good effort by putting important information about practices and our religion but I feel that is part of the game plan. Their practices and rituals are all of same kind as MS gang. We hope that KQ would move towards true Islamic practices and end the oppression and subjugation of mumineen which we have in the seen from his father TS and brother MB but that is yet to be seen. People have been doing Sajdas to him and he has been accepting najwas and salams from people with fakhir rakam ever since he opened his eyes so he is part of all the corruption which we presently see in the kothar and co. He has never stood against the corruption of the kothar and in fact has been enjoying the loot from the helpless mumineen and muminat. He has only been discussing the oppressive tax system after bifurcating from MS gang but he accepted all the loot before. Was he sleeping at that time?

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#844

Unread post by james » Sat May 24, 2014 1:18 pm

Bohra spring wrote: On another note in this topic...darling was used as sign of pity on the commentator but my arch enemy j has twisted it to mean sexist or flirt. Unfortunately I will not apologise and Sufi thanks for stepping in , I have women in my family eg daughters, wife, mother, mother in law, girl friends yes some fools will take off on this remark , and staff ...I call all darling now and again ...some these women call me back dear or babe ...so my attitude remains intact what I will withdraw and note to not call saminaben or umme those words in future...
And everyone was told "Darling" was used as a term of endearment towards Ummehani.You are pathetic for not apologizing to her. :roll:

It would be epic to see you refer to strangers as "darling".Just Epic!

Mkenya
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#845

Unread post by Mkenya » Sun May 25, 2014 2:08 am

Bohra Spring: Thank you for the comments. Actually I am not the author. It was sent to me by a friend in the UK. I just copied and pasted it.

I wonder where all the debate is taking us. We are just speculating. An Muttaqui Bohra elder once told me a very poignant comparison that fits very aptly to our conundrum. "Tame pathari ma pet uper, padkha ma, tuntiyu wari ne, game te position ma suso, pan tamari G*n*h to khatla na wachmaj rashshe." (My apologies for the crudeness in the Gujarati choice word for the torso!).

Need I say any more?

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#846

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sun May 25, 2014 2:39 am

james wrote:
Bohra spring wrote: On another note in this topic...darling was used as sign of pity on the commentator but my arch enemy j has twisted it to mean sexist or flirt. Unfortunately I will not apologise and Sufi thanks for stepping in , I have women in my family eg daughters, wife, mother, mother in law, girl friends yes some fools will take off on this remark , and staff ...I call all darling now and again ...some these women call me back dear or babe ...so my attitude remains intact what I will withdraw and note to not call saminaben or umme those words in future...
And everyone was told "Darling" was used as a term of endearment towards Ummehani.You are pathetic for not apologizing to her.

It would be epic to see you refer to strangers as "darling".Just Epic!
will your master Muffy also apologies for dragging this whole beautiful and peace loving community in pile of shiit because of his greed and stupidity? :roll: :roll: :roll:

TheLiberatedOne
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:57 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#847

Unread post by TheLiberatedOne » Sun May 25, 2014 3:06 am

and here comes James to derail the topic...... no comments on the topic being discussed but takes the discussion to totally different discussion... !

natkhat pari
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:56 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#848

Unread post by natkhat pari » Sun May 25, 2014 5:06 am

Now that skq is usa are they going to file case in court against dawat hadiya properties. As this are registed under coperate soul. More paper work is needed

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#849

Unread post by Adam » Sun May 25, 2014 7:19 am

Here we go again:

@Mazakyo
Can only hear "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj". Maybe after that it was "Naheen pahnaoun" ????
Anything is possible. You can imagine all you want. But we can't talk about something that didn't take place can we?
If you accept that you heard the words "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj", you've achieved a great feat that not many on this forum have.
Your sense of hearing is intact. And you testify the words are clear.

Now, about your "possible imagination" of words.
Once you hear those words, watch the video. You'll see everything lining up to Nass. Moula RA saying the words, then salaam, shawl, wadhawanu, Shukr araz by Syedna Mufaddal TUS, and Mukasir Sahebs presence etc etc. It all adds up.

At least more than No Nass, No evidence on KQ + "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj".
Which makes more sense?

@Sceptical
About humility. Many Sahebs in the past have mentioned similar words. I have quoted above.

I didn't hear "Muffaddal bhai ... nass nu taj" in Raudat Tahera video. Believe me, I tried many times to understand what SMB(ra) said.
Facts are here : in all video presented by SMS camp, SMB(ra) did not utter a single understandable word.

Please speak to @Mazakyo above. He's a Proggy/Qutbi who's heard the words. Maybe he can open your ears a bit.

The timing used by SMS camp to show all those proofs let me confused. Why they kept Raudat Tahera video secret (shown only one time) until SKQ camp published it on Youtube?

Broadcasting something for the whole world to see on 19th Rajab 1432H doesn't make it a secret. It was open for all to see. And many (including KQ), if not all, heard and accepted the truth directly from Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. If you still needed clarity, you could have (and can now) approach your Local Amil to see the video a second or third time.

You may have not heard it. But KQ surely did. That's why he mentioned it on his website Tahiyaat.com. And he and his sons mentioned it in their Ashara waaz. He had the video all this time. You couldd have asked him as well.

It is the practice of 52nd Dai and Duats before him not to make Dawat issues/programs public. Especially during the era of the internet, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin never put or allowed to place Dawat Majlis videos, waaz etc on Public forums such as Youtube, or anything for that matter. This shows how different KQs actions are to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.

@Haqq_Prevails
You are just echoing what Husain Qutbuddin said in one of his videos. Unless you yourself are HQ.
The misaq doesn't mentioned the 4th Rutba. There were never 2 Misaaq official letters (of which one was later pulled down). If you do have, please share.

Our history is littered with sons who have betrayed Nabi's, Imam's and Duat's, these sons are no different, hungry for power and money!


Yes. Very true. KQ is an example of that.


@kimanumanu
Nass was done since 1388 but Mansoos himself did not know whilst an ordinary person like Shk Yamani knew. How was this a secret when more than 2 people knew about it? What is the hikmat in hiding it from Mansoos when others knew about it? Why was misaq changed to include Mansoos after the stroke? If nass already happened then surely we should have been saying his name all the time and not after the stroke? What is the hikmat in this? Was Shk. Yamani and the other witnesses and the 2 shahzadas more aala than the rest of us mumineen? What gave them the honour of knowing this "secret" that was kept even from the Mansoos himself?

These answers are known to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, as to why he did what he did. We only know WHAT he did.

Why was misaq changed to include Mansoos after the stroke?


Because the public Nass happened after the stroke. So simple.

Was Shk. Yamani and the other witnesses and the 2 shahzadas more aala than the rest of us mumineen?

The two Shehzadas are is his eldest and 3rd eldest sons. What's wrong with telling them?
If you look at it in a very basic political worldly way, the eldest brother would be more likely to the usurp the rights of a younger brother.

Why Sh Ibrahim & Sh Abdulhusain Yamani besides others?
1. They are his personal secretaries and scribes.
2. Trained and Trusted over years.
Why not?

Keeping it a secret from the Mansoos himself is nothing new. It has happened many times.
The Hawaalchi (servant/attendant) of Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin knew about his keen attention and Nass on Syedna Mohammed Ezzuddin many years in advance, before Syedna Mohammed himself was told.
No way does it mean the Hawalchi was greater than the Mansoos or anything other present Dawat Hudood, etc etc. If that's what you're implying.


@Haqq_Prevails
It is very likely that SKQ tried to approach Burhanuddin Moula in private but the Shehzada's never allowed that. I know of one instance when Malik bs prevented SKQ from meeting moula. Of course SKQ was not going to confront Moula in public and do be-hurmati, especially given the ill health of Aqa Moula.


You must be a close confidant of the Qutbis to claim something like that.
Shezada Malik BS didn't really handle Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's personal matters. It was Dr Moiz BS. So if anyone allegedly stopped KQ, it would have been him. So your story has a slight flaw there. Unless you have some proof?

Even if what you are saying is true. IF IT WAS SO IMPORTANT, why didn't he try harder? He could have used his political power, the courts, the police to reach Syedna RA. Why leave it all for now?


@AgnosticIndian
It does concern me coz my folks are believers. I only hope who they believe in is the right one.


I hope so too. And if THEY believe the "RIGHT ONE", I hope YOU too.


@Maqbool
It is now clear that Adam is insider of kothar and knows many internal things.
he is only interested to convince us on one point that SMB Ra said in rozat video that "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj" is clear. He is not ready to listen others that the original video which was published by fatenidawat.com was not clear. This video was withdrawn by fatemidawat.com because of objection from the SMS side on copyright issue and it has been reproduce by some alteration.

1. Nope. I'm just a normal guy (not a girl).
2. I am only interested in proving what is already clear which you refuse to accept.
3. The video I am referring to IS THE SAME video posted by the FatemiDawat site. They are all the same version. The FD video would have been removed, because it isn't their property to show it, but it has been reposted.
The FD site even posted the same video for Pakistani's who can't access Youtube here: http://tune.pk/video/1969681/raudat-tah ... ajab-1432h

The above link was posted by the FD site. It is the same video and the words are clear. No alterations.

Just in case you have a ear/mind block. All these videos have been produced to court. Time will tell. But you'll probably will turn a deaf ear to the Judgement as well, saying it was al fabricated / or that you didn't hear the Judge say it, so you'll refuse to believe.

@humanbeing
Does SMS believe there must be 3 Rutbaas in the daawat ? if yes ! who is the Mazoon under his daawat ?


1. The same can be said for KQ as he hasn't appointed a Mazoon or Mukasir. (Not that I know of officially at least).

2. There have been many instances in history that there haven't been a Mazoon or a Mukasir. The bayan of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA is very clear. The Dai is the owner of all 3 Rutbas. He is the Dai Muthlaq, the Mazoon and the Mukasir. In most cases he will appoint certain people. If the absence of that, he carries on its duties.

@MMH
I think in one of Adam's post he asked everyone to check the properties of the London Nass video posted


I wasn't asking you to do so. Because like you, I don't have the video either.
I just said that the Court has certain methods of verifying dates. This being the most simple. Don't twist words.


@Crater Lake
Watched the hospital video over the weekend....Hardly even recognized Moula and he looked a lot healthier than he did in Raudat Tahera.


That's open to argument. In Raudat Tahera Moula was looking very well. (Even the Judge commented on this when he saw the pictures of Hospital & Raudat Tahera).
You can look at the images of 19th Rajab from Zeninfosys, or even on the 53 Reasons site.
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/

Moul looks very well.


@ Haq prevails
Clearly moula's cognitive abilities after a sever stroke were impaired and he was taken advantage of. Just like Ayesha took advantage of Rasululah's illness so did the Shehzada's.

It's more clearer that you are closer to the Qutbi's than I imagined. Your details of the video show that you've seen it up close.

I have already mentioned. IF the Shehzadas had taken advantage of Syedna Burhanuddin RA, it is possible. But as in the case of Rasulullah, he would have never done Nass on the wrong person no matter what the pressures were.
He did Nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin in Raudat Tahera on the 19th of Rajab like Rasoolullah did on Moulana Ali AS in Ghadeer (despite external pressures).

If you know/can prove of any other Nass, please care to share.


@think_for_yourself
The word of the Mazoon carries weight for us because he was Burhanuddin Moula's Mazoon for 50 years. The rutba is aala in our doctrine and carries with it the implicit and full trust of the Dai. For many of us committed to SKQ the existence of the hospital video was irrelevant. We never asked for it as proof. Some progressives asked for it. SKQ followers did not. We already have our Moula's word for what happened. If Aqa Moula Burhanuddin RA found him worthy of his trust, we certainly are not holding back.

1. Yes he was the Mazoon
2. Which "doctrine" says being in this position "carries with it the implicit and full trust of the Dai"? Please give references.
3. And yes, I did TRUST the Mazoon of Sydna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, because he openly testified to the Nass of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS on his website, his waaz and his "beloved son" Abdealis waaz. I trust all of them!
4. After the demise of Syedna Burhanuddin RA, KQ was removed from the position of the Mazoon, and seized to exist a Mumin. So my trust ended there.

@Crater Lake
I totally see the point here. The hospital video was nothing new. It was all the ambiguity of the Raudat Tahera event moved to Cromwell hospital. No one has given me a convincing answer to why Burhanuddin Moula would not have done a more convincing nass prior to speech-loss.

Burhanuddin Moula did a "convincing Nass prior to speech-loss" according to Dawat doctrines. He appointed Witnesses, made a document and appointed more witnesses.
Are you now going to reject Dawat doctrines?

The letter has also been shown as evidence to courts. Time will tell.


@haq_ni_dawat
People are asking & will keep asking questions to mufaddal bhaisaab only as he is the one who has publicly declared 3 years back that he is the true mansoos


Correction. Syedna Mufaddal didn't declare it. It was Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin that declared it.

as he is the one who is responsible for the SBUT mess

SBUT was the 52nd Dai's wish. If you want to go against him, then clarify that as well instead of twisting the truth.
KQ was also a part of SBUT, he attended many laying foundation programs.
http://zeninfosys.net/zen/akhbar/akhbar ... umbai/7088

On the other hand qutbuddin moula has never shown his might publicly..has never shouted from roof tops that he is the true mansoos..

Are you kidding? Have a look at the FatemiDawat bayans of KQ after the wafat of Syedna. He's been holding the Quran and that's all he's been saying in every one of his speeches!

has never hidden or manipulated facts

This is debatable.
1. He doesn't have any evidence/facts of his delusional Nass. So there's nothing to manipulate.
2. But he has manipulated secondary issues/texts/letters to try and bolster his false claim


@Mkenya
THank you for your long forwarded post which you received. It's actually already on this thread. It has already been answered.

natkhat pari
As it apears from audio of hospital nass physical condtion of aqa mola sound like pesron after a major stroke.in video physical condition has improved drastically " bhai ghani khidmat khidi che" to Dr moiz bs sugest that time difrence between audio and video is much more then 24 hrs as shown in waaz

Great!
You have accepted that you have clearly Moula say the following. Which also means that Moula could speak "coherently". This refutes what the Qutbi Bohras are trying to say.
This can also mean, he could have coherently performed the Nass (Audio), and the same in Raudat Tahera on 19th Rajab 1432 (audible in the video).

Now, once the court proves the date and time of this video. That should mean you will accept the Nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS. Inshallah

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#850

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sun May 25, 2014 7:37 am

looking at Adam posts, its clear whole team of jamiya illiterates keeps eye on this forum and they work hard to dig and reply post on each individual.

I wish they would work this hard for good life of poor momeenin, they would not be in this situation.

natkhat pari
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:56 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#851

Unread post by natkhat pari » Sun May 25, 2014 7:41 am

Bhusra Bhusra justice adam of high court of banan republic delivered verdict. Hail republic

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#852

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sun May 25, 2014 8:00 am

ADAM PM ME, and this was my reply...



Adam wrote:As long as you accept the falsehood.
I don't mind what you say to me.
you are doing this for money and you have nothing to do with haq or batil, clearly you are working for kothar to serve your master at any cost.

its a shame how your master moves around in planes and special trains while hundred in community are starving and struggling for basic day to day needs,

come out of your AC chamber of badri mahal and check out real world for once.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#853

Unread post by Adam » Sun May 25, 2014 8:34 am

Thanks for posting the PM. I have nothing to hide.

Regarding KQ not approaching Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, I would like to add.

Throughout the pased 3 years, there have been MANY MANY MANY public appearances of Syedna RA, Nikahs, Ziyafats, Bethaks, Majlis etc. It's not like he was under some security lock down and un-accessible through normal means. I myself got the honour of Qadambosi & Araz once in the past 3 years.

Secondly, he could have used force to exercise his rights. Don't you think Syedna RA would have longed for his TRUE Mansoos to come meet him?
It is narrated in history that on one occassion, one of the Companions refused to let Moulana Ali AS enter Rasulullahs house. Each time he came, he would be given the excuse that Rasulullah was involved. On the 3rd attempt, Moulana Ali placed his hands on that persons chest and pushed him aside and entered Rasulullahs chambers, to find Rasulullah longing to meet him.

If KQ was the TRUE Mansoos, and really cared about Syedna RA, then he should have followed the path of Moulana Ali AS. Settle it tactfully, if not, then use force for the right cause.

KQ didn't care about Syedna RA. He ran away from him on every chance he got. He just sat away like a coward counting his days till Moula's wafat.


Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#854

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sun May 25, 2014 8:48 am

Adam wrote:Thanks for posting the PM. I have nothing to hide.

Regarding KQ not approaching Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, I would like to add.

Throughout the pased 3 years, there have been MANY MANY MANY public appearances of Syedna RA, Nikahs, Ziyafats, Bethaks, Majlis etc. It's not like he was under some security lock down and un-accessible through normal means. I myself got the honour of Qadambosi & Araz once in the past 3 years.

Secondly, he could have used force to exercise his rights. Don't you think Syedna RA would have longed for his TRUE Mansoos to come meet him?
It is narrated in history that on one occassion, one of the Companions refused to let Moulana Ali AS enter Rasulullahs house. Each time he came, he would be given the excuse that Rasulullah was involved. On the 3rd attempt, Moulana Ali placed his hands on that persons chest and pushed him aside and entered Rasulullahs chambers, to find Rasulullah longing to meet him.

If KQ was the TRUE Mansoos, and really cared about Syedna RA, then he should have followed the path of Moulana Ali AS. Settle it tactfully, if not, then use force for the right cause.

KQ didn't care about Syedna RA. He ran away from him on every chance he got. He just sat away like a coward counting his days till Moula's wafat.

truth is in last 3 years SMB was not well at all, all his public appearance was torture for him, his sons use to take him around warping him up in white cloth just to make money on his name, I am pretty sure SKQ raised his voice on this issue and mistreatment of SMB but he could not do any thing, and he didnt wanted to create scene specially when it could hurt SMB.

I did qadambosi of SMB in mumbai in 2013, and I could easily see SMB was not at all in his senses and he was dozing off on his chair yet his fuc**zadaas were making him seat just to make money.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#855

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun May 25, 2014 8:50 am

Adam wrote:@humanbeing
Does SMS believe there must be 3 Rutbaas in the daawat ? if yes ! who is the Mazoon under his daawat ?
1. The same can be said for KQ as he hasn't appointed a Mazoon or Mukasir. (Not that I know of officially at least).

2. There have been many instances in history that there haven't been a Mazoon or a Mukasir. The bayan of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA is very clear. The Dai is the owner of all 3 Rutbas. He is the Dai Muthlaq, the Mazoon and the Mukasir. In most cases he will appoint certain people. If the absence of that, he carries on its duties.
Adam, my question is; does SMS believe there must be 3 rutbas, the practice similar to his father (52) and Grandfather (51) ? Previous Duaats established these positions and appointed person in these offices. More importantly 52nd ( Father) and 51st (grandfather) maintained these practice. Is SMS going to have Mazoon in his daawat ? Mukasir is already present ! Misaak text has Mazoon in it. Is this misaak going to continue ? then who is Mazoon ?


Adam wrote:@haq_ni_dawat
as he is the one who is responsible for the SBUT mess
SBUT was the 52nd Dai's wish. If you want to go against him, then clarify that as well instead of twisting the truth.
KQ was also a part of SBUT, he attended many laying foundation programs.
http://zeninfosys.net/zen/akhbar/akhbar ... umbai/7088

SBUT is a dream project of SMB, then why did QJ resigned from the project ! (correct me if I m wrong, please)

----------------------------------------------------------------

If SMB knew SKQ is a bad apple, yet kept him in the position of mazoon and also had his daughters married off his sons., also involved him in community projects, also kept his name in misaak !

When a son and brother of two previous Dai can go wrong, why cant SMS ! and his performance is at amusing display !

With all these mess out in public, it shows how flawed and vulnerable these Kothari royals family is, STS did not bring up his kids well ? did SMB appoint a bad apple to position of Mazoon ? did SMS usurp dai ship by deception and manipulation ? this way or that way, fallibility of Kothari royals are proven.

No more they should boast of Ghaib-na-jankar maujizas ! they should first mind their own unity problems and then worry about mumineen ! STS, SMB, SMS and SKQ cannot solve their own differences ! where they can save others !
Last edited by humanbeing on Sun May 25, 2014 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

abde53
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:01 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#856

Unread post by abde53 » Sun May 25, 2014 8:53 am

If KQ was the TRUE Mansoos, and really cared about Syedna RA, then he should have followed the path of Moulana Ali AS. Settle it tactfully, if not, then use force for the right cause.
Adam Bhai
Did not SKQ asked for Mobahella with SMS, it looks SKQ did follow the path of Moula Ali but it was SMS who decided that since he has power and the follower, he can follow path of Yazid and others.
KQ didn't care about Syedna RA. He ran away from him on every chance he got. He just sat away like a coward counting his days till Moula's wafat
Are you sure that it was not SMS Goonda Shezadas who kept him away. It seems that Moiez BS had more power over SMB then anyone, During the last years of SMB even Mukasir was no show and now all of sudden MUKASIR is being paraded, Please provide us the picture and number of times Mukasir mentioned on Kothar run websites then and now,

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#857

Unread post by Rebel » Sun May 25, 2014 9:08 am

natkhat pari wrote:Now that skq is usa are they going to file case in court against dawat hadiya properties. As this are registed under coperate soul. More paper work is needed
What is meant by "registed under coperate soul"? :roll:

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#858

Unread post by alam » Sun May 25, 2014 11:14 am

It has become clear that as far as Dawoodi Bohra community is concerned there are 3 major agents of social influence and change:
A. The podium and takhat under control of SMS
B. This PDB website or rather just the forum.
C. The court case
There is no revolt yet from the or ordinary Bohra. That would be the 4th Major agent of social change or revolt.

Sceptical
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#859

Unread post by Sceptical » Sun May 25, 2014 12:34 pm

If you still needed clarity, you could have (and can now) approach your Local Amil to see the video a second or third time.
Adam bhai, seems we are not living in the same world. For a simple bohra like me, doing such request to an amil is synonymous of stigmatization and i wouldn't be far to be treated as a "dushman". :lol:
You may have not heard it. But KQ surely did. That's why he mentioned it on his website Tahiyaat.com. And he and his sons mentioned it in their Ashara waaz. He had the video all this time. You couldd have asked him as well.
Not exactly true. SKQ has never mentioned he accepted the nuss. He just said that "he heard the audio clip of nuss bayaan by Shz QJ bs".
I was the first to mention it here, it was my fisrt message on this forum :
On 5th night of Rajab [Sunday, 5 June] Mazoon-e-Dawat tus presided over majlis in Ghurrat-ul-Masajid Saifee Masjid, in which the recording of bayan of Shehzada Qaid Joher Bhaisaheb Ezzuddin dm from London was relayed. Shehzada Saheb did zikar of Aqamola tus performing Nass on al-Mawlal Ajal Syedi Aali Qadr Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin tus.

Sceptical
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#860

Unread post by Sceptical » Sun May 25, 2014 12:50 pm

Sufi monk wrote: I did qadambosi of SMB in mumbai in 2013, and I could easily see SMB was not at all in his senses and he was dozing off on his chair yet his fuc**zadaas were making him seat just to make money.
I did qadambosi too in 2013 in khadala.
My feelings were mixed: on the one hand I was happy to have had this honor, on the other, I was embarrassed by the condition of Syenda RA. It seemed that he was paraded by her family as a marionette.

Do SKQ own a property in Khandala? Syedna (ra) residence was heavily guarded.

Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#861

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Sun May 25, 2014 1:05 pm

@Haqq_Prevails
You are just echoing what Husain Qutbuddin said in one of his videos. Unless you yourself are HQ.
The misaq doesn't mentioned the 4th Rutba. There were never 2 Misaaq official letters (of which one was later pulled down). If you do have, please share.
Our history is littered with sons who have betrayed Nabi's, Imam's and Duat's, these sons are no different, hungry for power and money!
Yes. Very true. KQ is an example of that.
Why was misaq changed to include Mansoos after the stroke?
Because the public Nass happened after the stroke. So simple.

@ Haq prevails
Clearly moula's cognitive abilities after a sever stroke were impaired and he was taken advantage of. Just like Ayesha took advantage of Rasululah's illness so did the Shehzada's.
It's more clearer that you are closer to the Qutbi's than I imagined. Your details of the video show that you've seen it up close.

I have already mentioned. IF the Shehzadas had taken advantage of Syedna Burhanuddin RA, it is possible. But as in the case of Rasulullah, he would have never done Nass on the wrong person no matter what the pressures were.
He did Nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin in Raudat Tahera on the 19th of Rajab like Rasoolullah did on Moulana Ali AS in Ghadeer (despite external pressures).

If you know/can prove of any other Nass, please care to share.

My Response to Adam:
Syedna Qutbuddin was in the rutba of Mazoon for 50 years, as per our history, we are Dawoodi Bohras because we have believed the Mazoon in the previous 2 Schism, else we would have either been Suleymani's or Aliya Bohra's. A Mazoon has never betrayed the trust of his Dai, where as the Son's of Nabi's, Imam's and Duat's have on many occasions. So don't be a smart alec in twisting my words. In the original Ibarat of Misaaq which was written in Arabic, the Mazoon was referred as Mazoon -al - Mutlaq, so would a Dai give Mutlaq raza to just anyone? No the person would have to be very trusted. Thus proving SKQ was very trusted and kept in rutba for 50 years.
The Shehzada's had full control on who could access and when and where to bring Burhanuddin moula in public. A blind man could see the manipulation. Yes Burhanuddin Moula had done his Nass 50 years back, what you saw on 19th Rajab in Raudat and in London Hospital videos is just an orchestrated event, a grand show of manipulation.

As far as the insertion of the name of the Mansoos in the misaaq, if the reason for that is as simple as "Because public nass was performed" then why did no Dai before this ever feel the necessity of inserting a 4th Rutba in the misaaq? Yes I have not only seen the 2 versions of the misaal to change the misaaq, I have also heard both the versions being used in the misaaq by our aamil. Some aamil's even went as far as taking the name of the Mansoos in the Safkat along with the name of the Imam and the Dai, so it was clear it was a free for all, people could make changes as they pleased.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#862

Unread post by Adam » Sun May 25, 2014 1:10 pm

@Sufi Monk
truth is in last 3 years SMB was not well at all, all his public appearance was torture for him, his sons use to take him around warping him up in white cloth just to make money on his name, I am pretty sure SKQ raised his voice on this issue and mistreatment of SMB but he could not do any thing, and he didnt wanted to create scene specially when it could hurt SMB.

IF (big IF) it was torture, then why didn't KQ do anything? You say he spoke up. How come no one heard him? Did he even get the media's help to raise his voice, as he's doing now? No.
Why only speak up? Why didn't he physically do anything?
What kind of a coward see's his Moula being tortured and not come to the rescue?
How could speaking up/doinganything "hurt SMB"? Wouldn't Syedna actually be happy and relieved that his Mansoos has come to his aid and protection? Wouldn't Syedna welcome his efforts since all his sons are ganged up against him?

Question. Please answer clearly.
When you did Qadambosi to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin last year:
1. What was your belief in the 52nd Dai?
2. Did you believe he had named his Mansoos, and who was he?
3. If you saw your Moula being tortured, why didn't YOU do anything?
If you're answer for No. 2 is KQ, why didn't you go up to your Moula KQ and beg him to stand up for your Dai's protection?

If you didn't stand up for your Moula, you're expressing the similar cowardice KQ showed.


@humanbeing
We all know you really don't care about all these Dais and Misaaq and everything. It's all a time pass for you and ways to keep you busy on this forum.

Yes, Syedna Mufaddal believes in 3 Rutbas.
Yes it is mentioned in the current Misaq that the Dawat Satr is represented by 3 Rutbas.
Syedna (according to Fatimi texts) encompasses all 3 rutbas and has currently left the Mazoon rutba empty.
The Mazoon rutba was also empty during Syedna Taher Saifuddin's time before he appointed Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin as the Mazoon.

Who is KQ's mazoon and mukasir? Why doesn't he appoint them? Why do you only question this side of the coin?

SBUT is a dream project of SMB, then why did QJ resigned from the project ! (correct me if I m wrong, please)

I don't understand what your're saying.
Shz Qaid Joher BS is still heading the SBUT project.

If SMB knew SKQ is a bad apple, yet kept him in the position of mazoon and also had his daughters married off his sons., also involved him in community projects, also kept his name in misaak !

That is for you to ask Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.
You can also ask Rasulullah why he kept 1 2 3 and married their daughters.

When a son and brother of two previous Dai can go wrong, why cant SMS !

Nothing refrains a son or daughter of a Dai from going wrong.
KQ is the perfect example of that today.

STS did not bring up his kids well ? did SMB appoint a bad apple to position of Mazoon ?

Before questioning Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA, why don't you ask Allah why he couldn't make an angel without becoming Iblees? Maybe he didn't raise them up correctly.? It's his fault right?
You can ask Imam Ali Zayn al Abedeen and other Imams why their sons went astray. Is it their fault?

So technically according to your logic, even Allah is not "Ghaib na jaan kaar".

@Abde53
Just because one side calls for argument, doesn't mean they are worth arguing to.
Mubahila means argument.
KQ went to court, so let the Mubahila go on there.


Are you sure that it was not SMS Goonda Shezadas who kept him away.

Well, even if the Shehzadas kept KQ away from Moula RA.
KQ could have done a better job and tried harder while his Moula was allegedly being tortured.

@Sceptical
Adam bhai, seems we are not living in the same world. For a simple bohra like me, doing such request to an amil is synonymous of stigmatization and i wouldn't be far to be treated as a "dushman". :lol:

First you ask why the video wasn't made public. It was. And each Amil had a copy. Now you make excuses to approach the Amil.
Fair enough.
What's done is done. Let's talk about the present.
The Fatemi Dawat site did you a favour and posted the video for you.
You can watch it as many times as you want.
You'll hear the same things over and over again "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj".

Not exactly true. SKQ has never mentioned he accepted the nuss. He just said that "he heard the audio clip of nuss bayaan by Shz QJ bs".
I was the first to mention it here, it was my fisrt message on this forum :
On 5th night of Rajab [Sunday, 5 June] Mazoon-e-Dawat tus presided over majlis in Ghurrat-ul-Masajid Saifee Masjid, in which the recording of bayan of Shehzada Qaid Joher Bhaisaheb Ezzuddin dm from London was relayed. Shehzada Saheb did zikar of Aqamola tus performing Nass on al-Mawlal Ajal Syedi Aali Qadr Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin tus.

1. KQ did mention it on his site, that Aqa Moula performed Nass. He even calls Syedna Mufaddal "AL MAWLAL AJAL, SYEDI ALI QADR MUFADDAL BS SAIFUDDIN TUS". Something you would call a Mansoos wouldn't you say so?
2. if you ask anyone in Toronto or Sidhpur, they will say KQ mentioned Syedna Mufaddal and the Nass in his Ashara waaz.
3. If you ask anyone un Ujjain they will say Abdeali Q mentioned Syedna Mufaddal and the Nass in his waaz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaVDhYGvEfc
4. There's a Yemeni person who was a close khimdat Guzaar of KQ, he also testifies that KQ accepted the Nass at the time. He says KQ uses the words "la ghubaara alaiyhe", meaning, there is "NO DOUBT IN THIS NASS".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5YO6aA ... vzkEgJnbLn

Why have they back tracked? What changed? Were the lying to their people before?

Syedna Mufaddal side has enough substantial evidence.

What does KQ have? Why doesn't anyone on this forum Question them?

Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#863

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Sun May 25, 2014 1:22 pm

MS has nothing but Fabricated evidence.
SKQ has the support of 50 years of SMB. No matter what filth was slung on his mazoon, he kept him in the exalted position, his word means more than anything to SKQ believers. Those who did not believe him earlier don't believe him now.
Rasullulah never appointed 1,2 & 3 in any rutba, where as SKQ was second in command for 50 years, you only appoint the most trusted in such a role. Similar to 1, 2, and 3, the Shehzada's also did not have any rutba, and they usurped power as soon as they saw the opportunity.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#864

Unread post by Adam » Sun May 25, 2014 1:37 pm

@Haq Prevails
You conveniently just ignored my last three posts. I PMd you to refresh your memory.
Syedna Moahmmed Burhanuddin did Nass on Syedna Mufaddal.

1 2 3 were appointed. Read Dawat texts on history and Taweel.
To repeat your statement.
Those who didn't follow Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, don't follow him even now, nor his Mansoos.


Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#865

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Sun May 25, 2014 1:42 pm

Adam wrote:@Haq Prevails
You conveniently just ignored my last three posts.
Syedna Moahmmed Burhanuddin did Nass on Syedna Mufaddal.

To repeat your statement.
Those who didn't follow Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, don't follow him even now, nor his Mansoos.

I responded to all your points, you are the one ignoring the significance of the Mazoon.
I agree those who did not believe in SMB and kept breaking their misaaq are not on Haq even today, where as those few who adhered to their misaaq to SMB are following his true waris SKQ. Where as 99% are busy making roti's and wondering where the hell am I heading!

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#866

Unread post by Adam » Sun May 25, 2014 2:00 pm

Okay.
Now we're heading somewhere.
I've not met a Qutbi Bohra for a long time on this Forum. Are the only one out there?

Syedna Qutbuddin was in the rutba of Mazoon for 50 years, as per our history, we are Dawoodi Bohras because we have believed the Mazoon in the previous 2 Schism, else we would have either been Suleymani's or Aliya Bohra's. A Mazoon has never betrayed the trust of his Dai, where as the Son's of Nabi's, Imam's and Duat's have on many occasions.

Let's not talk about children.

1. Ali bin Ibrahim was the Mazoon and "second in position". You can deny that all you want.
2. In the tarteeb of Hudood, do you believe that the Hujjat/Dai of the Imam is of a higher position than the Mazoon?
If yes (obviously), then read up Muntaza al Akbar where it is mentioned that 1 2 3 were Hujjats. Read up Daim ul Islam, where it mentioned Abul Khattab and Mugheera were amoungst the "biggest hujjats and duats" of Imam Jafar al Sadiq and Imam Baqir AS. If they can go astray, what stops a lower ranking Hudood.
ONLY the Saheb e Zamaan and his Mansoos are Masoom.
If KQ being the Mazoon WAS the Mansoos, then this would apply on him. But just making him the Mazoon doesn't make him Masoom.


So don't be a smart alec in twisting my words. In the original Ibarat of Misaaq which was written in Arabic, the Mazoon was referred as Mazoon -al - Mutlaq,

If you read the Masaail (questions) of Fiqeh posted by certain Duats, including Syedna Taher Saifuddin, it even talks about a MAFSOOH (Mulla) being "Mutlaq" in his affairs.
Does that automatically making that Mafsooh Mutlaq a Dai? I hope not.

The Mansoos is also referred to as the "Dai Mahsoor".
SO we have two rutbas:
Dai Mahsoor (Mansoos)
Mazoon Mutlaq (Mazoon)

One is a "Dai" and the other a "Mazoon". Who seems higher?

Thus proving SKQ was very trusted and kept in rutba for 50 years.

Keeping someone doesn't automatically make them trusted. The Africa "episode" and what Syedna RA said is a perfect example that trust was betrayed.

The Shehzada's had full control on who could access and when and where to bring Burhanuddin moula in public. A blind man could see the manipulation

Fair enough. I've said it many times. Why didn't KQ rush to the rescue?

what you saw on 19th Rajab in Raudat and in London Hospital videos is just an orchestrated event, a grand show of manipulation.

Hmm. And Moula (your supposed Dai) saying the words "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj". Is that also orchestrated?


no Dai before this ever feel the necessity of inserting a 4th Rutba in the misaaq? Yes I have not only seen the 2 versions of the misaal to change the misaaq, I have also heard both the versions being used in the misaaq by our aamil.

Great! Finally someone who claims to have heard this.
Please share the evidence.
Since you are so close to KQ, i'm sure he has a copy of the Misaal as well. If the Vazarat sent it out to all the Amils, i'm sure KQ being in his lofty position would have received the same.

I don't mind continuing this in a PM, because there are a lot of NON DBs on this thread.



Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#867

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Sun May 25, 2014 2:12 pm

Adam wrote:Okay.
Now we're heading somewhere.
I've not met a Qutbi Bohra for a long time on this Forum. Are the only one out there?

Syedna Qutbuddin was in the rutba of Mazoon for 50 years, as per our history, we are Dawoodi Bohras because we have believed the Mazoon in the previous 2 Schism, else we would have either been Suleymani's or Aliya Bohra's. A Mazoon has never betrayed the trust of his Dai, where as the Son's of Nabi's, Imam's and Duat's have on many occasions.

Let's not talk about children.

1. Ali bin Ibrahim was the Mazoon and "second in position". You can deny that all you want.
2. In the tarteeb of Hudood, do you believe that the Hujjat/Dai of the Imam is of a higher position than the Mazoon?
If yes (obviously), then read up Muntaza al Akbar where it is mentioned that 1 2 3 were Hujjats. Read up Daim ul Islam, where it mentioned Abul Khattab and Mugheera were amoungst the "biggest hujjats and duats" of Imam Jafar al Sadiq and Imam Baqir AS. If they can go astray, what stops a lower ranking Hudood.
ONLY the Saheb e Zamaan and his Mansoos are Masoom.
If KQ being the Mazoon WAS the Mansoos, then this would apply on him. But just making him the Mazoon doesn't make him Masoom.


So don't be a smart alec in twisting my words. In the original Ibarat of Misaaq which was written in Arabic, the Mazoon was referred as Mazoon -al - Mutlaq,

If you read the Masaail (questions) of Fiqeh posted by certain Duats, including Syedna Taher Saifuddin, it even talks about a MAFSOOH (Mulla) being "Mutlaq" in his affairs.
Does that automatically making that Mafsooh Mutlaq a Dai? I hope not.

The Mansoos is also referred to as the "Dai Mahsoor".
SO we have two rutbas:
Dai Mahsoor (Mansoos)
Mazoon Mutlaq (Mazoon)

One is a "Dai" and the other a "Mazoon". Who seems higher?

Thus proving SKQ was very trusted and kept in rutba for 50 years.

Keeping someone doesn't automatically make them trusted. The Africa "episode" and what Syedna RA said is a perfect example that trust was betrayed.

The Shehzada's had full control on who could access and when and where to bring Burhanuddin moula in public. A blind man could see the manipulation

Fair enough. I've said it many times. Why didn't KQ rush to the rescue?

what you saw on 19th Rajab in Raudat and in London Hospital videos is just an orchestrated event, a grand show of manipulation.

Hmm. And Moula (your supposed Dai) saying the words "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj". Is that also orchestrated?


no Dai before this ever feel the necessity of inserting a 4th Rutba in the misaaq? Yes I have not only seen the 2 versions of the misaal to change the misaaq, I have also heard both the versions being used in the misaaq by our aamil.

Great! Finally someone who claims to have heard this.
Please share the evidence.
Since you are so close to KQ, i'm sure he has a copy of the Misaal as well. If the Vazarat sent it out to all the Amils, i'm sure KQ being in his lofty position would have received the same.

I don't mind continuing this in a PM, because there are a lot of NON DBs on this thread.


You all will not stop at anything, twisting dawat texts and history has become easy for you. Taking things out of context and misrepresenting them for your convenience is easy. Ali bin Ibrahim, Dai-al- Mahsoor, etc... You have a whole army trained to support these nefarious activities. Only time will tell. The way things are going, it may not be too long when the masses realize their folly and dump MS. After all, how long can one be mesmerized with Roti making?

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#868

Unread post by Adam » Sun May 25, 2014 2:36 pm

No one is twisting anything.
The texts are with KQ. Go and ask him to let you have a look.
I've given you the references.

I request one answer.
HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING.
If the court analyses and accepts the videos and audios as the genuine voice of Syedna RA. If it does tests on the Nass document and prove its authenticity. What would your position be?

MUSTAPH
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:24 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#869

Unread post by MUSTAPH » Sun May 25, 2014 2:39 pm

SKQ Fan wrote:
natkhat pari wrote:Audio and video evidence of nass was put up in last date kq side habe to file reply in this evidence.To make this public in wazz is interfering in proceding of court. Its amount to infelnce public opintion i.e. consider contempet of court its going to cost heavily mb bs in next date. Thats why mula &mula rescued themself from case
There is a saying in Hindi " vinash kale vipreet buddhi" and that is exactly what is happening to Mr Muffadal Saifuddin. He may have hired the fanciest lawyers money can buy, he may have bullied a weak and cowardly community into submission , but Sahyrdna Qutbuddin has Allah on his side, and whom Allah protects no man can vanquish. Whatever Mr Muffadal Saifuddin has done up to now has backfired on him, and he will continue taking foolish and self destructive actions becuse it is the will of Allah that truth come out . We will continue to stay steadfas in our yakeen to our Moula Qutbuddin (TUS) have sabr, and trust in Allah. This daweedar ( MS) will be exposed inshallah..
hey SKQ fan are you still of the primitive thought process who thinks that there is Allah up there who in this world of trillions of people is focusing and willing to make the KQ winner. please man grow up. I do not say SMS is rightful but KQ is also doing it for power and nothing else.
think about it the KQ claims nass was given to him many years back but was asked to keep it a secret. He was such a obedient disciple that even when the drama of Raudat Tahera was played he thought about recording the video and analyzing the minor details but did not think about making it public. He was in Pune also when the fanfare was going on but did never think of opposing the ziyafats of SMS also. After the sudden demise of SMB on the very next day his website was ready and uploaded and the emails had already been sent to the data base of ejamaat card. wow did he do all this in one day. well, not really he had been preparing for it. the makers of the website must have been informed about the nass. the facts of Raudat Tahera must have been discussed with the video analyzers so in other words his promise of keeping everything a secret must have been broken. Now that he had broken the secret why was he not breaking the secret to the public. well he very well knew that in the presence of SMB if he would defy the SMS team they would have very easily establish his claim as false as they had SMB under their control and the curtains of the KQ film would have been drawn down for good. So he played a smart move of keeping his mouth shut than and only after the demise of SMB did he started speaking to the public. now ofcourse he was not doing all this alone and also Allah must not be supporting him in playing these games but it must be his sons who would be behind this master game so as to enjoy the benefit of power the SMS team has been enjoying all this years.

Sceptical
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#870

Unread post by Sceptical » Sun May 25, 2014 3:15 pm

Adam wrote:If the court analyses and accepts the videos and audios as the genuine voice of Syedna RA. If it does tests on the Nass document and prove its authenticity. What would your position be?
If a third part proves the authenticity of the documents, then I will learn to accept SMS as my 53rd Dai.

futhermore, I will learn to say lanaat on my enemies, I will ask my wife to leave its job and make roti/topi, and I will increase my wajebaat fivefold :wink: