Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Asalaam'alykum members,

Here is a very interesting thought which i was pondering on, In various majalis, bayans and waezes people are made to believe that the Dai (missionary of fatemi Imamate Islam) can make forgive your sins.
How is this possible, where as in Quran Majeed it is written in 100 of ayats that Allah (SWT) can only forgive your sins no one else can make you forgive your sins other than Allah (SWT).
This is mechanism being fitted in bohras brain for a long time that a mere Human being whose family has been disoriented whose children have dejected him, In whom several people have lost faith, who has made plunders upon plunders and is still making, cursing, back biting, hypocrisy etc, How can i person of such attributes MAKE YOU FORGIVE YOUR SINS, whose SINS ARE HIGHER THAN HIS FOLLOWERS.

[chakker]

Wahid,
The caption seems wrong. As per your post it should read - I will have your sins forgiven....

[Adam]

This is not Syedna Mufaddal TUS.
Looking at Syedna Burhanuddin's age (60-70+), Syedna Mufaddal TUS was much older at the time.

[rational_guy]

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2 ... -religion/

It is easy to look to religion for an explanation of why young men — and some women — become radicalized. But it is psychology, not theology, that offers the best tools for understanding radicalization — and how best to undo it.

The appeal of Islamic State rests on individuals’ quest for what psychologists call “personal significance,” which the militant group’s extremist propaganda cleverly exploits. The quest for significance is the desire to matter, to be respected, to be somebody in one’s own eyes and in the eyes of others.

A person’s sense of significance may be lost for many reasons, such as a personal failure or a stigma that comes from transgressing the norms of one’s society. We are reminded of this when we examine the backgrounds of female suicide-bombers in Israel. The first female suicide-bomber in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was divorced by her husband after she was found to be infertile. Another would-be bomber had been disfigured by burns, believed to have been caused by her family, after she had an affair. These women suffered from personal stigma and went on to volunteer for suicidal missions against the Israelis.

Loss of significance can also be caused by hopeless economic conditions. It can grow out of a sense of disparagement and discrimination, a not uncommon experience of many immigrants. And it can come from a sense that one’s brethren in faith are being humiliated and disgraced around the world.

Ideological extremists like those leading Islamic State deliberately employ the ideas of collective hardship and victimization of Muslims worldwide to galvanize and recruit potential jihadists. In a 1997 interview with CNN, Osama bin Laden fulminated: “The mention of the U.S. reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off …” Another senior Al Qaeda leader, Yehia Al Libi, stoked anger and indignation by saying: “Jihad in Algeria […] is your hope […] from the hell of the unjust ruling regimes whose prisons are congested with your youths and children, if not with your women.”

The appeal to one’s trampled identity, combined with the depiction of one’s group’s degradation, can have a profound visceral effect, incensing and redirecting individuals who are otherwise well-adjusted and on their way to a seemingly bright personal future.

According to reports, Nasser Muthana, a 20-year-old volunteer in Islamic State, had acceptance offers from four medical schools. Muhammad Hamidur Rahman, who died in August while fighting in Syria, was employed at a Primark store in the coastal city of Portsmouth, United Kingdom, and had a father who owned a restaurant. His personal future thus appeared assured and yet it could not undo the pain and humiliation he saw his Muslim community facing.

Extremist ideology is effective in such circumstances because it offers a quick-fix remedy to a perceived loss of significance and an assured way to regain it. It accomplishes this by exploiting humans’ primordial instincts for aggression and sex.

Consider the latter. Sex is the most primitive assertion of one’s significance; it’s a means to perpetuate one’s name — and genes — into the future. Islamic State strategically uses it as a reward for aggression.

The militant group has set up marriage centers where women register to be wed to its fighters. Captured Iraqi women and girls are forced into sex slavery, living in brothels run by female jihadists. Rape of non-believers is considered legitimate, while fatwas proclaiming a “sexual jihad” encourage brutality against females. Lastly, martyrdom is associated with sexual bliss in paradise.

Understanding the magnetic appeal of Islamic State’s extremism is a prerequisite to developing a suitable, psychologically sensitive counter narrative. For example, an appeal to moderation and a life of patient struggle seems ill-suited to win over the hearts and minds of jihadists. Instead, the glamour of jihad must be countered by an alternative glamour; the charisma of martyrdom pitted against a different kind of charisma, the appeal to primitive drives redirected, jiu jitsu style, against the brutality of the enemy, turning the psychological tables on Islamic State as it were.

For example, young men vulnerable to the appeal of extremist ideology might be persuaded to fight the desecration of their religion and promised a place in history by defeating the satanic evil that soils their faith. Social media may need to be turned abuzz with the glory of standing up to evil, encouraging the bravery needed to undertake personal risks for “breaking bad.” This message should not be presented in faint pastels but in bright, bold colors.

Measured arguments against Islamic State wouldn’t do the job. Countering it requires fiery, impassioned appeals.

[DisillusionedDB]

@rational_guy ... your post seems to be in the wrong thread. This causes a break in the continuity of the topic under discussion.

[rational_guy]

I wanted to show a similarity, how bohris are becoming Radical and the new policies and the probably and perceived effects of it to the future of the community.

[Moiz_Dhaanu]

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2 ... -religion/

It is easy to look to religion for an explanation of why young men — and some women — become radicalized. But it is psychology, not theology, that offers the best tools for understanding radicalization — and how best to undo it......
.......
Extremist ideology is effective in such circumstances because it offers a quick-fix remedy to a perceived loss of significance and an assured way to regain it. It accomplishes this by exploiting humans’ primordial instincts for aggression and sex.

Consider the latter. Sex is the most primitive assertion of one’s significance; it’s a means to perpetuate one’s name — and genes — into the future. Islamic State strategically uses it as a reward for aggression.

The militant group has set up marriage centers where women register to be wed to its fighters. Captured Iraqi women and girls are forced into sex slavery, living in brothels run by female jihadists. Rape of non-believers is considered legitimate, while fatwas proclaiming a “sexual jihad” encourage brutality against females. Lastly, martyrdom is associated with ...
Measured arguments against Islamic State wouldn’t do the job. Countering it requires fiery, impassioned appeals.

Over the past 8 months or so after hearing the different stringent and somewhat male chauvanistic bayaans of DBMS..the above article makes me think that DBMS is not so different in attitude from these jihadis. His taunts towards the female folk of our society are very inhuman..i remember him clearly saying these 2 things below
1)Bairo ne ghar no ek kono pakadvo joiye. ( he meant that women are just suited to be female slaves)
2) tame agar koi bairo ne pardaah bigaair jov to ehna tez nazar si dekho ( he meant that if you see bohra women without rida then you should stare them in such a stern way that they should be afraid and ashamed that they came out of the house without ridah)
What human in his right frame of mind will call this person his Dai?
DBMS= Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhaisaheb

[DisillusionedDB]

I wanted to show a similarity, how bohris are becoming Radical and the new policies and the probably and perceived effects of it to the future of the community.

I gathered that after reading your original post but to make matters more clear, it would have been better if you would have followed up with your own comments about the similarity. Anyway, it was just my view and no harm done and no offence meant

[Truth-Prevails]

On the topic of radicalization and propaganda.

The methods that Shz. Mufaddal bhaisab and his family are using can be summed up by quoting YN's hero Joseph Goebbels

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Replacing State with Shz. Muffadal and Gang - tell me if this does not ring true?

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as Shz. Muffadal and Gang can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for Shz. Muffadal and Gang to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of Shz. Muffadal and Gang.”

[alam]

What people don't know is that Hitler was YN's hero. This I have heard as a child growing up while my family had close contacts with YN.

YN also talked about Dawat being a business, and people are free to find their own product to do business - as long as the others' product is not they acreage in heaven, which is patented fully to YN and his followers - not even SMB OR STS. This is evident in our nasihats and madehs and become so commonplace in our innocent porous minds with the repetition of the madehs and nasihats, which have become their sclecer marketing talking points. There better not be competition on who has access to heaven, and that's how this corporation has expanded and has market monopoly for Bohras.

The cult that GMbhai and some others discuss is very relevant here, because to opose it is nothing short of annihilation, just as was Hitlers intent wih the jews.

[thesource]

I don't recall Imam Husain SA shouting and cursing Yazeed LA when Molana Ali Asghar was ripped by an arrow!! How many more outbursts will it take before these zombie people wake up and smell the rotten snake who belittles the very rutba that Burhanuddin Mola RA placed Syedna Qutbuddin in for over 50 years! Is Mufaddal angry at his father for making a 50-year mistake?!!! I used to refer to him as Mufaddal 'bs' with respect to Burhanuddin Mola RA, but now he has clearly shown that he is the biggest enemy of Burhanuddin Mola - worst than any that ever existed in the last 104 years!

[kimanumanu]

If there was any doubt in my mind about Zahir batin and what Taizoon bhai said all those years ago then today that was extinguished by the so called Dai himself sitting on a takht under the pretense of doing buka and matam for Hussein imam.

[UnhappyBohra]

If there was any doubt in my mind about Zahir batin and what Taizoon bhai said all those years ago then today that was extinguished by the so called Dai himself sitting on a takht under the pretense of doing buka and matam for Hussein imam.

I agree that he all but admitted that his antagonism for the mazoon is not new found. Ghana waqt si sataya che eh shaks ye. Bawaji saheb ne bhi sataya che. Is he saying that Burhanuddin Moula let the Mazoon define dawat when he was harassing him? Is he calling his father weak and ineffective? Is he saying he led the people astray by not dealing with this so called problem? Bullshit MS. We will call you out on the crap you feed us every single time. We may be few skeptics on either side of the fence but you will never get away with bs--ing us. You are welcome to pull the wool over the eyes of your thousands of abdes.

[everest]

The angry outburst of SMS was very unbecoming for a dai. I have heard many waaz of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and he never showed so much anger. He would give a firm but gentle message. A message from a fatherly figure filled with love and affection. A message which would make you ponder and contemplate. Why does someone who has complete grip on the community fear a few hundred people? Its because a lie is a lie no matter how many times repeated and they are afraid people will start seeing the real truth. It must be a cringe worthy moment for QJ bs when SMS went off script. The unraveling has begun. Upar wale ke ghar mein der hai andher nahi. They should listen to this naat and think hard... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1M1mwq_J7E

[subcon111]

Someone said to me today that SMS has anger issues and maybe he will tone it down as he gets more experienced. Shouldn't a Dai be 'fit' and 'suitable' in all ways to be one before assuming office? This is not job where you have a trial period and can be dismissed if not suitable or improve as time goes on. I remember when he was first announced as the Mansoos he seemed very unsure of what he should do, protocol etc. He needed to be guided at each and every step. He still reads from a script. Compare that with Shz. Taher bs bin SKQ whose waaz is eloquent, full of quotes recalled from memory, informative and interesting. Of course there is praise of SKQ and SMB but that it to be expected and the whole waaz is not just about that. Even a normal shehzada of SKQ is able to do better than SMS.

[ghulam muhammed]

It is crystal clear that Muffy is brain washing his abdes psychologically ! His emphasis is on SMB and the so called rants of "Bawaji saab ne Ghana sataaya che" because SMB is the weak point of majority of the abdes and its easy to manipulate them by using SMB, its just like how he uses Imam Hussain (a.s.) and Mohurrum to loot his followers !! I had mentioned it earlier too that his marketing team headed by a Professor of Sydhenam College devises the strategies like the FMB thaali and laying more stress on SMB and Imam Hussain (a.s.) in order to retain a vice like grip over abdes and in the bargain milk them high and dry !!

Actually he should say that "Mane Ghana sataaya che" but he knows that abdes wont be too impressed with it as many of them are in his fold due to compulsion rather then willingly.

[humanbeing]

Someone said to me today that SMS has anger issues and maybe he will tone it down as he gets more experienced. Shouldn't a Dai be 'fit' and 'suitable' in all ways to be one before assuming office?

He is almost 70 years !! how much more experience he needs to get ! This is also very surprising, that in spite of his age, he lacks the wisdom and composure of a kind old man, instead comes across as short tempered grumpy grandpa ! his tone is usually that of a scolding father/grandpa I may say ! I wonder he perceives commoners as trashy, senseless and ignorant ! Slowly and steadily the image of “royals” is changing in the minds of bohras. SMS is doing a wonder of goods for progressive and other skeptical free thinking bohras by his tyrannical behavior. I doubt he has seen an inch of hardship to empathize on real issues faced by bohra community.

Being bought up in pampered and flattered environment, they are raised to feel and think like a princes and princesses. The length, breath and heights of bottom kissing in abde community is hilariously saddening ! abdes are trained to bend, bow, crawl, wail, yell, cry and moan in front of anyone with a beard, fancy topi, and layers of white clothes !

[haqniwaat]

A person who suddenly becomes raging mad at you without listening to what you're trying to say or simply because someone else said something bad about you, and not even asking you what your side of the story is - definition of Muffy.

[fustrate_Bohra]

Someone said to me today that SMS has anger issues and maybe he will tone it down as he gets more experienced. Shouldn't a Dai be 'fit' and 'suitable' in all ways to be one before assuming office?

He is almost 70 years !! how much more experience he needs to get ! This is also very surprising, that in spite of his age, he lacks the wisdom and composure of a kind old man, instead comes across as short tempered grumpy grandpa ! his tone is usually that of a scolding father/grandpa I may say ! I wonder he perceives commoners as trashy, senseless and ignorant ! Slowly and steadily the image of “royals” is changing in the minds of bohras. SMS is doing a wonder of goods for progressive and other skeptical free thinking bohras by his tyrannical behavior. I doubt he has seen an inch of hardship to empathize on real issues faced by bohra community.

Being bought up in pampered and flattered environment, they are raised to feel and think like a princes and princesses. The length, breath and heights of bottom kissing in abde community is hilariously saddening ! abdes are trained to bend, bow, crawl, wail, yell, cry and moan in front of anyone with a beard, fancy topi, and layers of white clothes !

An act which says that he is indeed NOT groomed for DAISHIP.

[rational_guy]

Questions for MS

1. You say that Mola Ali AS has said not to do mubalagat ( verbal discussions ). Can you please site a book for reference.

2 If you call yourself a "Haq na Dai" why are you not willing to publicly argue with SKQ. SKQ has already invited you for a public argument.

3. In your waaz you make bohris pray laanat on SKQ in Huzain Imam's majlis and then later you quote the 52nd Dai Syedna Burhanuddin RA that you should not treat davedaars badly

4. You were pretty buying a bungalow in Colombo while Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin wafaat thaya, why were you not at his bedside and you are blaming SKQ for not coming for Janaza namaz. You did not respond to SKQ letter immediately after Syedna Burhanuddin's wafaat.

[subcon111]

SMS said in waaz that Syedna Taher Saifuddin very frequently referred to SMB as Bhai Burhanuddin. And when STS said this he said 'samajwawala samji gaya'. And Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin referred to SKQ as Bhai, Bhai Khuzema or Bhai Qutbuddin. Why? Samajwawala ne isharo kido? SMB said 'Me javu chhu, Bhai ne mukine javu chhu'. And this was years after the Africa incident, recently before SMB had a stroke. Samajwawala samje chhe but they don't want to admit it.

Has SMB ever, even once called SMS as Bhai Saifuddin or Bhai Mufaddal?

The common man and jamea students which constitute the masses are swayed by the emotional rhetoric in the name of SMB spewed forth by SMS. SMS, his brothers and uncles don't care about the few who are capable of thinking rationally. They need numbers on their side which they have. They control the majority of the mainstream Bohras by involving them so much in majlis, maatam and other events that they receive a constant dose of brainwashing. They are unable to recognize a logical argument or information even when it is presented to them. If a Bohra attended and participated in each and every event in the community, there wouldn't be any time left for other things. And that is what they are promoting. In other words a cult based on the gham of Imam Husain (AS) and obedience for the Dai.

[Rebel]

A person who suddenly becomes raging mad at you without listening to what you're trying to say or simply because someone else said something bad about you, and not even asking you what your side of the story is - definition of Muffy.

Correct, this guy who calls himself Dai is nothing short of lunatic. He and his entourage of jokers has and will create mess of the community. He is gonna make all of us barbarians instead of educated individuals.

[rational_guy]

Why has MS become completely vitriolic in his "bayaans".

1. Is he worried that Mumineen are listening to the Haq na dai and he is getting paranoid?

2. If he calls himself the Dai, why does he not represent himself in the suit filed by SKQ. Why does he hide behind his constituted attorney and brother QE. Is he afraid that he cannot take the stand without a prepared speech.

3. Why is he worried about Haq spreading through the Internet. Will the truth destroy his house of lies?

[everest]

Today's tirade about SKQ being a Zalim beautifully highlighted the hypocrisy of SMS. When your people attacked SKQs sons when they went for zyarat, who was the zalim? When you went door to door to get signatures from people in fear to pledge allegiance to you, who was the zalim? When you openly paraded your elderly father for creating mass hysteria and gain brownie points among the brainwashed, who was the zalim?

He is using the holy takht meant for doing matam and gham of Imam Hussain AS for riling up the crowds and seeping seeds of hatred. This is nothing but his personal vendetta against SKQ. What a shame!

[rational_guy]

Shz MS says in his waaz that he was taken aback, shocked and grieved on SMB wafaat and also that his "grandchildren were taken away from him". I suppose to get some respite from the grief MS decided to go for long shikaar trips and killed a couple of elephants and then vacationed in his Rs 160 Cr Colombo bungalow.

[haqniwaat]

How mufaddal bs changed misaaq by adding "mansoos" - attached video.

[humanbeing]

Shz MS says in his waaz that he was taken aback, shocked and grieved on SMB wafaat and also that his "grandchildren were taken away from him"..

SMS camp is stirring up the seperation from grandchildren to get maximum sympathy from abdes ! at present this is the only concern or perceived pain in life of SMS, he is trying to project himself as a victim and put himself in the lines of previous duats who endured tough times. SMS camp is playing very smartly with hatred and victimizing himself to soften his image from short tempered goof ups.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

My question is:-
What if the kids do not want to go back to MS camp and they do not give allegiance to his grandfather Muffadal saab, will they be labeled as traitors or dawat na dushamno, mind you there are kids who are under age and w/o misaaq, so what will their reaction be to such kind of response!

[kimanumanu]

They also keep mentioning that they have been "kidnapped" - surely the law would have stepped in if that were the case?

[DisillusionedDB]

... put himself in the lines of previous duats who endured tough times.