Ten Years that wrecked the Character & Mentality of Bohras

[fustrate_Bohra]

Tahermakka bhai, reading ur aggressive comments along with gali galoch i understand that u r indeed a very true followers of Syedna (51st, 52nd n 53rd). Now let me ask small question what made u to hate all those who questioned syedna? I mean please give us some instances of what made you die hard followers of syednas, what major change had he brought in the life of common DB people? What things had he done for the welfare of common db people?

Please see brother i am NOT asking this in a sarcastic manner but i really want to know what made u believe that ur syednas are on right path?

I think topiwala and other like minded can help you out. This questions has already been raised in many different threads but unfortunately we didnt get any response.

Expecting reply in decent manner.

Thanks...

[Tahermakka]

Tahermakka bhai, reading ur aggressive comments along with gali galoch i understand that u r indeed a very true followers of Syedna (51st, 52nd n 53rd). Now let me ask small question what made u to hate all those who questioned syedna? I mean please give us some instances of what made you die hard followers of syednas, what major change had he brought in the life of common DB people? What things had he done for the welfare of common db people?

Please see brother i am NOT asking this in a sarcastic manner but i really want to know what made u believe that ur syednas are on right path?

I think topiwala and other like minded can help you out. This questions has already been raised in many different threads but unfortunately we didnt get any response.

Expecting reply in decent manner.

Thanks...

why not approach badrimahal and ask them?

I am here to defend ahlul bayt and any one making fun of matam and majlis is munafiq for me.

[fustrate_Bohra]

Brother I hope SMS is top in ur list of MUNAFIQIN.

[Ozdundee]

Flat tyre...

You think SI does not look like your SMS who according to you portrays an Islamic image.

As far as I know At least SI does not like SMS, go hunting, travelling in a/c chariot, winking at air hostesses , thinks women are sluts if they work in offices, ...and then money money money

I don't know why you bother judging who is Muslim and who is not...but I forgot you are not a Muslim you are a mumin s

[think]

how can taher makka even give a grade to his boss s.m.s. giving s.m.s. 9 out of 10. This kind of reasoning in itself contradicts him.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Tahermakka
Your Master SMS hugged Baba Ramdev, he gave shawl to NaMo, He gets Wadhwa done on him like Hindus do on Ganpati so tell us who is more Hindu
Saif Insaf or your Masters Kothari Goons?

SBMbhai, have already informed Al Zul. Its our friend, the resident virus in a new avtaar

absolutely right! i saw through him too after just a few posts and have informed admin.

[seeker110]

Tahir bhai kabhi halal ki khaie hai.

Ja apne bachoun ka liyae halal ki rozi talash kar.

Mehnat ke phal say zayada metha koe aur phal nahi hota.

Kiya tumarae walid saheb ney tum ko mehant karna nahi seekhaya.

[S. Insaf]

From first Dawoodi Bohra Dai Sayedna Zoeb bin Musa till 45th Dai Sayedna Tayeb Zainuddin every Dai unambiguously declared a Mazoon his successor before his death: Whether that Mazoon was his Mazoon or Mazoon of any of previous Dai.
According to Ismaili Dawoodi Bohra Faith, the succession of a Dai is governed by Divine right of Nass inspired by the Imam of the time or hidden imam not by hesitance or democratic election.
The best and the most learned and pious member of the community irrespective of his financial standing was chosen by the Dai before his death, trained and if choice is approved by divine inspiration from Imam the nomination was publicly declared in an assembly of the faithful, and such nomination was known as Nasse-Jali.
Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb has defined "Dai" in his book "Zua Nure Haqqun Mubin" as one who invites the people to the right path of Allah by modestly preaching the virtues and philosophy of Islam, derived from 14th para of the 21st Ruku of the holy Qur'an "Ud, oo, Ila Sabile Rabbika, bil Hikmat Wal muazatul Hasana" - Call them to the path of thy Lord tactfully and by good manner.
From first Dai Sayedna Zuaib till 24th Dai Sayedna Esuf Najmuddin in a span of 441 years Dais remained in Yemen but they kept on sending their deputies from Yemen to India. A training school was kept in Yemen for training the candidates from India.
Thus even the descendants of the first Hindu coverts from Raja Sidhraj Jaisingh (Bharmal)'s family were patronised and called to Yemen and trained. One Mulla Raj was raised to the degree in Dawat and his son Sayedna Ismailji Badruddin was rose to the post of Dai. After him 34th, 35th, 36th, 37th, 38th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd and 46th Dais that is nine other members of Bharmal's family were raised to the status of a Dai.
This clearly shows that earlier Dais never hesitated to recognise the superior qualifications of the outside ordinary Bohras against their own children.

This also dismisses the claim that the present incumbents have any linkage (bloodline) from the holy Prophet or the people of his house (Ahle-byat or Imam).
However after the death of 46th Dai Sayedna Badruddin Saheb, the last of the converted Royal Rajput family of Gujarat, the present dynastic rule commenced.
But on the sudden death of 46th Dai, Sayedna Abd-e-Ali Saifuddin by poisoning, his Mukasir Abdul Qadir Najmuddin claimed Dai-ship which resulted in controversy and doubts regarding legitimacy of his claim. The concept of Divine right of Nass inspired by the Imam of the time or hidden imam was over looked. Abdul Qadar Najmuddin or Yusuf Najmuddin tried to quiet doubts by distribution wealth, titles of shaikhs among his opponents. However he agreed to rule as Nazim (acting) Dai which continued till 50th Dai. Sayedna Taher Saifuddin also remained as Mullaji, Sardar initially but then he started calling himself Dai-ul-Mutlaq. He declared his brother Abdul-Husain Hushamuddin 48 the Dai after him with a condition he would declared next 49th Dai from Abdul Qadar Najmuddin’s family and then 49th Dai would declare his successor from Hushamuddin’s family and so on. 47th Dai Abdul Qader Najmuddin was grandfather of Sayedna Taher Saifuddin and 49th Dai Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin was his father. As per the above mentioned arrangement 50th Dai Sayedna Abdullah Badruddin was son of Hushamuddin, who intended to declare $9th Dai Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin’s elder son, Tayeb Zainuddin as his successor but Yayeb Zainuddin died a sudden mysterious death and 49th Dai’s second son, Taher Saifuddin claimed the Dai-ship.
But when it came to Sayedna Taher Saifuddin he monopolized the the office of Dai in his family.

[zinger]

Insaaf saab...

1.

One Mulla Raj was raised to the degree in Dawat and his son Sayedna Ismailji Badruddin was rose to the post of Dai. After him 34th, 35th, 36th, 37th, 38th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd and 46th Dais that is nine other members of Bharmal's family were raised to the status of a Dai.
This clearly shows that earlier Dais never hesitated to recognise the superior qualifications of the outside ordinary Bohras against their own children.

You said that Dynastic rule started from the time of 50th Dai, but in your same post, you have also mentioned that 34th, 35th, 36th, 37th, 38th, 41st, 42nd. 43rd and 46th Dai were from the same famly. Isn't that also the same Dynastic rule???

2.

Abdul Qadar Najmuddin or Yusuf Najmuddin tried to quiet doubts by distribution wealth, titles of shaikhs among his opponents.

Sorry, who was it? Abdul Qadar Najmuddin or Yusuf Najmuddin

3.

Sayedna Taher Saifuddin also remained as Mullaji, Sardar initially but then he started calling himself Dai-ul-Mutlaq. He declared his brother Abdul-Husain Hushamuddin 48 the Dai after him with a condition he would declared next 49th Dai from Abdul Qadar Najmuddin’s family and then 49th Dai would declare his successor from Hushamuddin’s family and so on.

Sorry, but did you just write that the 51st Dai selected the the 48th Dai??? Am i missing something here or have you mixed up your story?

4.

He declared his brother Abdul-Husain Hushamuddin 48 the Dai after him with a condition he would declared next 49th Dai from Abdul Qadar Najmuddin’s family and then 49th Dai would declare his successor from Hushamuddin’s family and so on. 47th Dai Abdul Qader Najmuddin was grandfather of Sayedna Taher Saifuddin and 49th Dai Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin was his father. As per the above mentioned arrangement 50th Dai Sayedna Abdullah Badruddin was son of Hushamuddin, who intended to declare $9th Dai Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin’s elder son, Tayeb Zainuddin as his successor but Yayeb Zainuddin died a sudden mysterious death and 49th Dai’s second son, Taher Saifuddin claimed the Dai-ship

So basically, the Dynastic rule started from the 48th Dai, not the 51st Dai like you claim!!! Right???

There have been many instances in the past too where the Dai nominated his son who nominated his son who nominated his son. Now i'm sure neither you nor i were around at that time to wonder if the nuss happened on the basis of a "dynastic rule" or ability. fact is, it happened in the past too

[asad]

Insaaf saab...

1.

One Mulla Raj was raised to the degree in Dawat and his son Sayedna Ismailji Badruddin was rose to the post of Dai. After him 34th, 35th, 36th, 37th, 38th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd and 46th Dais that is nine other members of Bharmal's family were raised to the status of a Dai.
This clearly shows that earlier Dais never hesitated to recognise the superior qualifications of the outside ordinary Bohras against their own children.

You said that Dynastic rule started from the time of 50th Dai, but in your same post, you have also mentioned that 34th, 35th, 36th, 37th, 38th, 41st, 42nd. 43rd and 46th Dai were from the same famly. Isn't that also the same Dynastic rule???

2.

Abdul Qadar Najmuddin or Yusuf Najmuddin tried to quiet doubts by distribution wealth, titles of shaikhs among his opponents.

Sorry, who was it? Abdul Qadar Najmuddin or Yusuf Najmuddin

3.

Sayedna Taher Saifuddin also remained as Mullaji, Sardar initially but then he started calling himself Dai-ul-Mutlaq. He declared his brother Abdul-Husain Hushamuddin 48 the Dai after him with a condition he would declared next 49th Dai from Abdul Qadar Najmuddin’s family and then 49th Dai would declare his successor from Hushamuddin’s family and so on.

Sorry, but did you just write that the 51st Dai selected the the 48th Dai??? Am i missing something here or have you mixed up your story?

4.

He declared his brother Abdul-Husain Hushamuddin 48 the Dai after him with a condition he would declared next 49th Dai from Abdul Qadar Najmuddin’s family and then 49th Dai would declare his successor from Hushamuddin’s family and so on. 47th Dai Abdul Qader Najmuddin was grandfather of Sayedna Taher Saifuddin and 49th Dai Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin was his father. As per the above mentioned arrangement 50th Dai Sayedna Abdullah Badruddin was son of Hushamuddin, who intended to declare $9th Dai Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin’s elder son, Tayeb Zainuddin as his successor but Yayeb Zainuddin died a sudden mysterious death and 49th Dai’s second son, Taher Saifuddin claimed the Dai-ship

So basically, the Dynastic rule started from the 48th Dai, not the 51st Dai like you claim!!! Right???

There have been many instances in the past too where the Dai nominated his son who nominated his son who nominated his son. Now i'm sure neither you nor i were around at that time to wonder if the nuss happened on the basis of a "dynastic rule" or ability. fact is, it happened in the past too

Br. Zinger,

If i am not mistaken then SMS is the 6th dai in direct succession. means his father and grandfather and great grandfather till 6th generation have all been dai's.

[zinger]

Asad bhai, you are right, that is EXACTLY what im saying. the dynastic rule started with the 48th Dai, not the 51st Dai like Insaaf saab is trying to put across in his post

But since we are talking dynastic, why not go back in the past. Why just start everything at the 51st?

Dynastic Dais were there earlier too

[asad]

Asad bhai, you are right, that is EXACTLY what im saying. the dynastic rule started with the 48th Dai, not the 51st Dai like Insaaf saab is trying to put across in his post

But since we are talking dynastic, why not go back in the past. Why just start everything at the 51st?

Dynastic Dais were there earlier too

Not 48th but 45th.

till 45th every thing was ok, from 46th onwards everything went downhill and from 51st onwards it became an avalanche.

[zinger]

Asad bhai, you are right, that is EXACTLY what im saying. the dynastic rule started with the 48th Dai, not the 51st Dai like Insaaf saab is trying to put across in his post

But since we are talking dynastic, why not go back in the past. Why just start everything at the 51st?

Dynastic Dais were there earlier too

Not 48th but 45th.

till 45th every thing was ok, from 46th onwards everything went downhill and from 51st onwards it became an avalanche.

i must say im quite surprised with the confidence in which you claim things started going downhill from the 46th Dai.

Neither you, nor i, nor are grandfathers were there to see how things were before the 46th Dai. What we do have to rely on, is the words of Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raj (and perhaps the other 3 ustaads of Jamea, although im not sure what there perception was)

Anyways, i dont want to get into the nitty gritty but i think if we claim the rot started at Dai no. 46, then i dont quite know how you arrived at that conclusion

Also on another note, am posting a query on the HERE AND NOW forum. would really appreciate your views on this

[asad]

Not 48th but 45th.

till 45th every thing was ok, from 46th onwards everything went downhill and from 51st onwards it became an avalanche.

i must say im quite surprised with the confidence in which you claim things started going downhill from the 46th Dai.

Neither you, nor i, nor are grandfathers were there to see how things were before the 46th Dai. What we do have to rely on, is the words of Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raj (and perhaps the other 3 ustaads of Jamea, although im not sure what there perception was)

Anyways, i dont want to get into the nitty gritty but i think if we claim the rot started at Dai no. 46, then i dont quite know how you arrived at that conclusion

Also on another note, am posting a query on the HERE AND NOW forum. would really appreciate your views on this

Whatever wrong you see today in dawat it was somehow started by 46th Dai. He is the root of all evil. I am not saying this relying on Shiekh Ahmed Ali's word, you can do your own study on the origin of things you see today in dawat. It might seem a sweeping statement but you can put my word aside and start digging and will find your way to 46th.

[haqniwaat]

If you start digging, you'll find dirt everywhere - the planet is made with it. An intelligent person would look to the future instead of digging holes in the past to trip and fall into. Ehde-nas Siraat al Mustaqeem.

[SBM]

.

An intelligent person would look to the future instead of digging holes in the past to trip and fall into.

But you do need to see the past to make sure same mistakes are not repeated again in the future.

[haqniwaat]

Yes, I absolutely agree. However in this case we're talking about a religion, not a republic. No religion can survive with holes being dug from the past. Unless you are trying to destroy it. And let's be honest here - how much of this that I keep reading on this forum about the 47th Da'i is even true. Let's not compare the past Dai's to Muffy, please. There is no comparison - simply because Muffy is not the Da'i.

[SBM]

Br HQ
If you donot want to talk about Past then the entire Moharrum Waiz and talking about Shahadat of Imam Hussain becomes moot since that is all we do year after year...
BTW talking about Dais of Dawoodi Bohra is not about religion, Our religion is ISLAM and no one is digging up anything in it since if you try to dig holes then you are not Muslim.

[haqniwaat]

Br HQ
If you donot want to talk about Past then the entire Moharrum Waiz and talking about Shahadat of Imam Hussain becomes moot since that is all we do year after year...
BTW talking about Dais of Dawoodi Bohra is not about religion, Our religion is ISLAM and no one is digging up anything in it since if you try to dig holes then you are not Muslim.

According to my belief, the Dawoodi Bohra faith is Islam. If you are a practicing Dawoodi Bohra, you would know that. And comparing the Shahadat of Imam Husain SA to digging up crazy things about past Dai's is not a comparison.

[fustrate_Bohra]

Lets forget about earlier dais i.e. 47th to 50th and let us consider them true to religion given the benefit of doubt as non of our forum members had seen their era.

Now let starts with 51st Dai the turning point of Dawoodi Bohra where the lifestyle of DAI has become lavish, Nazariya to see DAI has change and DAI become almost un-reachable to ordinary Bohra. I had not seen the era of STS but following are things when I think and studied it made me realized that the system got corrupt from 51st DAI itself.

1) Total control on Waqf Property
2) Raza mandatory
3) Misaq text change
4) Nathwani commission report regarding excommunication
5) Revenge taken to all great philantrophists who raise their voice for eg. Sir Adamjee Peerbhuoy (there may be other great philanthropists too but i cannot recollect)
6) Individual cannot do charity, all the money should be given to him.

These points are mentioned on the basis of article written by Insaf bhai and Late Aliasgar bhai. I consider it as true because they had backup their article with references for eg. Nathwani Commission report, Article on Sir Adambhai daughter in law in Mumbai samachar, book written by Syedna Hatim, to name a few. This is enough for me to consider that YES our 51st DAI was not true to his duty.

Than come 52nd He had carried his father legacy in the same way and he came up with many innovative new Taxes which become compulsory. Apart from this he came up with the innovation of E-JAMAAT card to keep a track on all his abdes. It was during his era that Udaipur incident happen. As they say there is no smoke without fire something might have happen really bad in the presence of then syedna which evoke udaipur people to an extent that they are still fighting with these wealthy and influential people.

And the current one, for him I can say i had personally experienced him and can say that he is not DAI material. Few members says that he is illiterate, well I dont know about this but i will believe them because the way he is behaving and putting limitation on women make me feel confidence that indeed these members are telling truth. He further extend his father and grand father legacy by bringing few new money generating scheme i.e. Thali, Give Qarze Hassana every friday.

I fail to understand why these followers dont think "How our so called syednas become billionaires without any business?".

If any of your children dont have proper food to eat or no proper place to live or dont have any job. Will you still be happy and go on vacation and lead lavish lifestyle? Certainly Not, than how our bawa can live the life the way he is living when he is very well aware that all the childrens are not happy and they are having the above problems.

One more thing we all need to understand that if our syednas had genuinely spent money for the good cause than by NO way they would be able to accumulate such massive wealth.


Do think on this.

[haqniwaat]

Okay, point taken. It is because of the farsightedness of the 51st Da'i that Dawat today is so financially well off. He actually made many investments through his brother Ibrahim Bhaisaheb Zainuddin. So it is only because of these investments that Dawat has so much money.
As far as the increase in wajebaat, that is all the doing of Muffy, not Syedna Burhanuddin.
And misaaq was never changed until Muffy added his name as 'mansoos'.
I don't know where Mr. Engineer and others receive their info, but let's be fair here - they are not exactly holding much love for the 51st and 52nd Dai's as one would expect a Dawoodi Bohra to have.
And this qarzan hasana every Friday is also a Muffy scheme.
The 52nd Da'i did spend a lot of money on the betterment of the poor of our community. But as all large communities with little mullas and sheikhs on payroll, especially in India, there is corruption.
As far as the red, yellow, green and EJamaat, this was all done by Yusuf bs Najmuddin & family, not by the 52nd Da'i. And yes, you will say that 'but wasn't he in charge'. And the answer to that is obvious in today's nass issue - he was in charge but not everyone was listening to his wishes.
And let's be fair - every large religious entity has dues to keep it running. Did you know that Mormons have to give 10% of their income to the church?
The corruption in Dawat is more a result of a corrupt mentality in India than of anything directly related to our faith.

[fustrate_Bohra]

Okay, point taken. It is because of the farsightedness of the 51st Da'i that Dawat today is so financially well off. He actually made many investments through his brother Ibrahim Bhaisaheb Zainuddin. So it is only because of these investments that Dawat has so much money.
As far as the increase in wajebaat, that is all the doing of Muffy, not Syedna Burhanuddin.
And misaaq was never changed until Muffy added his name as 'mansoos'.
I don't know where Mr. Engineer and others receive their info, but let's be fair here - they are not exactly holding much love for the 51st and 52nd Dai's as one would expect a Dawoodi Bohra to have.
And this qarzan hasana every Friday is also a Muffy scheme.
The 52nd Da'i did spend a lot of money on the betterment of the poor of our community. But as all large communities with little mullas and sheikhs on payroll, especially in India, there is corruption.
As far as the red, yellow, green and EJamaat, this was all done by Yusuf bs Najmuddin & family, not by the 52nd Da'i. And yes, you will say that 'but wasn't he in charge'. And the answer to that is obvious in today's nass issue - he was in charge but not everyone was listening to his wishes.
And let's be fair - every large religious entity has dues to keep it running. Did you know that Mormons have to give 10% of their income to the church?
The corruption in Dawat is more a result of a corrupt mentality in India than of anything directly related to our faith.

just because of his incapability to control them it is us who are at receiving end.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Everything changed when dais became greedy and started enjoying on the hard earned money of bohra people Just like how kings enjoyed the tax levied on poor peasants , gold and gem miners were not paid well and all the riches were hogged by the kings in medieval times.
Dais started asking more and stupid people started giving more, and then when there were people who started questioning more than dai started kicking more and now we see one nephew for the greed of power and money has kicked his own holy in high stature Uncle.
My question this guy cannot be for his family how can he claim to take me to jannat, first bring your kids and uncles family to your home then we will believe you that you can take us to jannat also.

[topiwala]

So you showed your real colors , on one hand you put (RA) after Burhanuddin Mola(RA) and at the same time you criticize him and his forefathers for worst crimes! This is why I say that you people are wahhabis! and this whole site is just a subversive attempt to persuade our poor mumineen into confusion and then show the real colors by taking them into wahhabi fold by cunning tactic and create more anajmis, burhans ,akhtiyar etc who become wahhabi mouthpieces.

[SBM]

and this whole site is just a subversive attempt to persuade our poor mumineen into confusion

BUT I THOUGHT YOU SAID THIS FORUM IS SEEN BY VERY FEW PEOPLE, SO YOU AGREE THAT MANY ABDES ARE VISITING THIS FORUM....THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU FOR FINALLY ACCEPTING THE FACT

[seeker110]

The man with the loot is calling everybody chor and nonbeliever. Ja bhai roti paka aur sawab lei.