The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's reading

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khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's reading

#1

Unread post by khokawala » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:15 am

The Saved Sect

1. Allaah says: "And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allaah (i.e., this Qur'aan), and be not divided among yourselves." 2
2. And He says: "And do not be among the polytheists. Of those who split up their religion and became sects, each sect rejoicing in that which is with it." 3

3. The Messenger of Allaah said: "I counsel you to have Taqwaa of Allaah and to hear and obey, even if an Abyssinian slave were to command you. For, verily, whoever amongst you lives (to grown old), he will see many differences. So stick to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly guided khaleefahs. Cling tightly onto it and hold onto it with your molar teeth. And beware of newly invented matters. For, indeed, every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is a thing that leads astray, and everything that leads astray is in the Hellfire." 4

4. And he also said: " Indeed those from before you from the People of the Book divided into seventy-two groups. And, indeed, this group (Muslims) will divide into seventy-three. Seventy-two groups will be in the Hellfire and one of them will be in Paradise. And it is the Jamaa'ah (group)." 5

And in another narration, he said: "Everyone of them in the Hellfire, except for one group that which I and my companions are upon." 6

5. Ibn Mas'ood said: "The Messenger of Allaah drew a line for us and then said: 'This is the Straight Path of Allaah.' And he drew lines on the left and right of it, and then said: 'These are paths of which there is not one except that there is a devil upon it calling towards it.' Then he recited the statements of Allaah (7) : 'And verily, this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and do not follow (other) paths for they will separate you away from His path." 8

6. Shaikh ' Abd-ul-Qaadir Al-Jeelaanee Ra said: "As for the saved sect, then they are the Ahl-us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah. And there is no name for Ahl-us-Sunnah except for one and that is Ashaab-ul-hadeeth (those who stick to the hadeeth)." 9

7, Allaah, has commanded us to hold tightly onto the Glorious Qur'aan, and to not be like the polytheists who divide their religion into sects and parties. And the honorable Messenger has informed us that the Jews and the Christians have divided into many sects, and that the Muslims will divide into more sects than them. And that these groups will subjected to the entrance into the Hellfire due to their deviation and their distancing away from the Book of their Lord and Sunnah of their Prophet. He also informed us that one saved sect from among them will enter Paradise, and it is the Jamaa'ah (group), those who cling tightly onto the book of Allaah and the authentic Sunnah, and the actions of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah.
O Allaah! Make us from among the members of the Saved Sect and give victory to the Muslims so that they may be from among them.
The Methodology Of The Saved Sect

1. The Saved Sect is upon the methodology that the Messenger was upon in his life and the methodology of his companions after him. And that was (the following of ) the Glorious Qur'aan which Allaah revealed unto His Messenger, and that which he explained to his companions by way of the ahaadeeth (narration's) that have been authentically reported on him. And he commanded the Muslims to hold tightly onto the two, by his saying: "I left upon you two things of which you will never go astray after them: The Book of Allaah and my Sunnah. They will never be separated until they return to me at the Haud (the Pond)." 10
2. The Saved Sect returns to the Words of Allaah and the words of His Messenger at times of differing and controversy, acting upon the statement of Allaah, the Most High: "And if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it back to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is more suitable for final determination." 11

And He also says: "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Eemaan (Faith), until they make you (O Muhmmad) a judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." 12

3. The Saved Sect does not put the speech of anyone before the speech of Allaah and His Messenger, acting upon the statement of Allaah: "O you who believe! Do not be forward in the presence of Allaah and His Messenger and fear Allaah. Verily, Allaah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing." 13

Ibn 'Abbas said: "I fear that rocks from the heavens are about to descend upon you. I say to you: The Messenger of Allaah said, and you say: Abu Bakr and 'Umar said."

4. The Saved Sect gives importance to the Tawheed of Allaah. And that is the singling out of Allaah in terms of His worship, seeking of assistance, supplication at times of hardship and ease, scarifies, oaths, reliance, and other than that from the types of worship. It is the foundation by which the only correct Islaamic state can be established. And there is no doubt that the Shirk (association of partners with Allaah) that is currently present in the Islaamic states should be eradicated. This is because it is one of the requirements of Tawheed. Thus, victory will not come to any group that disregards Tawheed and does not oppose shirk and its types.

5. The Saved Sects revives the Sunnah of the Messenger in their act of worship, behavior and lifestyles. And due to this, they become strangers among their own people, as the Prophet has informed us would happen with his words: "Indeed Islaam began as something strange and it will return to being strange as it began. So Toobaa is for the strangers." 14
And in one narration, he said: "So Toobaa (15) is for the strangers those who correct others when the people have become corrupt." 16

6. The Saved Sect does not become fanatical with the words of anyone, except for the words of Allaah and His Messenger, the one protected from sins and who do not speak from his own desire. As for other than him from among mankind, no matter how high his degree may be, then he is prone to error and sin. This is due to the statement of the Messenger: "Everyone of the tribe of Adam sins. And the best of the sinners are the ones who (constantly) make repentance." 17

Imaam Maalik RA said: "There is no one after the Prophet except that you may take and abandon from his statements, except the Prophet."

7. The Saved Sect are the people of Hadeeth, of whom the Prophet said: "There will not cease to be a group from my ummah, dominant upon the truth. The ones who abandon them will not be able to harm them, until the decree of Allaah comes." 18

A poet said: "The people of hadeeth are the people of the Prophet."

8. The Saved Sect honors and respects the scholars of Islaam and they do not go extremities in following anyone among them. Rather, they take the understanding from the Qur'aan, the authentic Sunnah and from all of the scholars statements as long as they are in agreement with the authentic narration's and these are in agreement with their words. This is up to the point that they advise those that follow them to take from the authentic texts and to abandon any statement that opposes it.

9. The Saved Sect commands the good and forbids the evil. And so they forbid the evil of the innovator and the destructive groups that divide the ummah and innovate into the religion and into the Sunnah of the Messenger and his companions.

10. The Saved Sect calls the Muslims towards holding fast to the Sunnah of the Messenger and his companions until victory is prescribed for them and enter Paradise by the bounty of Allaah and the intercession of the Messenger after haven been given the authority to do so by Allaah.

11. The Saved Sect declares the evil of the conventional man-made law system which forces mankind to oppose the ruling system of Islaam. They call the people to rule by the Book of Allaah which was revealed to aid mankind in this world and the next. And Allaah knows best what is correct for them. His rule is established and does not change through the course of days. And it is correct for the people of all times. There can be no honor for he Muslims except in their return to the studying of Islaam, individually or in groups or through the governments, in accordance to Allaah's statement: "Verily, Allaah will not change the condition of a people, as long as they do not change it themselves." 19

12. The Saved Sect calls the Muslims to the Jihaad in the way of Allaah and it is an obligation upon every Muslim who is capable and in the means of doing it. And the Jihaad should be in the following ways:
A. Jihaad with the tongue and the pen. This is done by calling the Muslim as well as others to the correct form of Islaam and the Tawheed of Allaah free from any form of Shirk such as that which has become widespread in many of the Muslim lands. And which the Messenger of Allaah informed us would occur admits the Muslims, by his saying: "The Hour will not be established until a tribe from my ummah joins the polytheists and until a tribe from my ummah worship idols." 20
B. Jihaad with the wealth. This is done by giving money for the spreading of Islaam and the publication of books of daw'awah calling towards the correct views. It should be done by the distribution of wealth to the authors who will then assists those, whose hearts are from among the weakest of Muslims so that it may strengthen them. It should be done by the manufacturing and the purchasing of weapons and equipment for the Mujaahideen ( those who fight for the sake of Islaam), and other necessary things such as food, clothing and things of that sort.
C. Jihaad with the body. This is done by fighting and joining in the battlefield for the purpose of giving victory to Islaam, so the words of Allaah can be raised high, and so the words of the disbelievers can be put low. The Messenger has indicated these types of Jihaad, in His statement: "Wage Jihaad (fight/struggle) against the polytheists with your wealth, yourselves and your tongues." 21

The Signs Of The Saved Sect

1. The Saved Sect are the fewest among people. The Messenger supplicated for them with this statement: "Toobaa is for the stranger: A people who rectify (themselves and others) among people who are in much evil. Those who disobey them are greater in number than those who obey them." 22

The Glorious Qur'aan has informed us of them. Allaah, praising them, Says: "But few of My slaves are grateful." 23

2. The Saved Sect are the ones who a majority of the people hold as enemies. They are trodden upon and insulted by being given bad names. Consequently, they take the example of the Prophet of whom Allaah has spoken about, when He said: "And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies; shayaateen (devils) among mankind and jinn, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion." 24

And this was the case with our Messenger. His people would call him a "magician" and a "liar" when he would call them to worship and believe in only Allaah, even though, before that they used to call him the "truthful" and the "trustworthy".

3. Shaikh 'Abdul 'Azeez Bin Baaz HA was asked concerning the Saved Sect, so he responded: "They are the Salafiyoon and everyone who follow the footsteps of the Salaf-us_Saalih (The pious predecessors; the Prophet his companions and everyone who follows their methodology)."

These are some of the methodologies and signs of the Saved Sect, I will talk some more, in later chapters of this book, on the Aqeedah (belief/creed) of the Saved Sect, who are also known as the Victorious Group, so that we may be upon their Aqeedah, if Allaah wills.
Who Is The Victorious Group?

1. The Messenger of Allaah said: "There will not cease to be a group from my ummah dominant upon the truth. Those who abandon them will not be able to harm them until the Decree of Allaah comes." 25
And he said: "If the people of Shaam become corrupt, then there is no good in them. And there will not cease to be a group from my ummah that will be victorious. Those who abandon them will not be able to harm them, until the Hour is established." 26

2. Ibn Al-Mubaarak said: "To me, they are Ashaab-ul-hadeeth." 27

3. Al-Bukhaaree reported that 'Alee Ibn Al-Madeenee said: "They are Ashaab-ul-hadeeth."

4. And Ahmad Ibn Hanbal said: "If the victorious group is not the Ashaab-ul-hadeeth, then I do not who they are."

5. Imaam Ash-Shaaf'iee said that Ahmad Ibn Hanbal gave a speech and said: "You are more knowledge of hadeeth than I am. So if a hadeeth comes to you, that is authentic, then inform me of it until that becomes my opinion, regardless of whethter it be from Hijaaz, Koofah or Basrah."
1. Shaikh Muhammad Ibn Jameel Zainoo is one of the contemporary scholars of Islaam. A student of Shaikh Al-Albaanee, he has written many valuable works on Islaam. This article is taken from a book containing a collection of short essays written by him which entitled "Essays on Islaamic Issues." Another group of his essays from this book have been translated into English and collected in a book entitled "The Pillars of Iman and Islaam" published by Maktaba Dar As-Salam. This present article has been translated by Ibn Al-Arkaan.

2. Surah Aali-`Imraan [3:103]

3. Surat-ur-Room [30:31-32]

4. An authentic hadeeth reported by Abu Dawood and others.

5. A hasan hadeeth recorded by Imaam Ahmad and others.

6. Sunan At-Tirmidhee; It was declared hasan by Shaikh Al-Albaanee in Saheeh Al-Jaami': no 5219.

7. Surat-ul-Ana'aam [3:153].

8. An authentic hadeeth recorded by Ahmad and An-Nasaa'ee.

9. Al-Ghunyah.

10. Al-Albaanee has authenticated this hadeeth in Saheeh Al-Jaami'.

11. Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:59].

12. Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:65].

13. Surat-ul-Hujuraat [49:1].

14. Saheeh Muslim.

15. It is said that Toobaa means something good. Allaah mentions this word in Surat-ur-Ra'ad of His final revelation " Those who believe and do righteous deeds, Toobaa is for them and a pleasant destination." Commenting on this ayah, Ibraaheem An-Nakha'ee said that it means good is for them. Qatadah said: "When a man says Toobaa for you it means you have attained something good. "Ikrimah and Mujaahid say that Toobaa means Paradise. It is also said that Toobaa is a tree in Paradise which the Prophet spoke of when he said: "Verily, there is a tree in Paradise under the shadow of which a rider can travel for a hundred years without covering (the distance) completely." [Saheeh Muslim]

16. Reported by Ad-Daanee and Al-Albaanee said it was saheeh.

17. A hasan hadeeth reported by Imaam Ahmad.

18. Saheeh Muslim.

19. Surat-ur-Ra'ad [13:11].

20. An authentic hadeeth reported by Abu Dawood and its meaning can be found in Saheeh Muslim.

21. Related by Abu Dawood and it is saheeh.

22. A saheeh hadeeth reported by Imaam Ahmad.

23. Surah Saba' [34:13].

24. Surat-ul-Ana'aam [6:112].

25. Saheeh Muslim.

26. Recorded by Ahmad and it is saheeh

27. What is meant by Ashaab-ul-hadeeth are those who stick meticulously to the narration's and the text of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. It does not refer to, as some might think, a people who restrict themselves to hadeeth only. Rather, Allaah calls His Qur'aan by the word hadeeth in numerous ayaat in the Last Revelation (see 77:50, 52:34 and 45:6) Therefore the term Ashab-ul-Hadeeth, as known to the scholars of the past and present, referred to the Muslims who clung onto the text of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. It also refers to the scholars of hadeeth; those who study the science of hadeeth.

KA786110
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#2

Unread post by KA786110 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:32 pm

Maybe we should ponder upon this and worry about our own deeds:
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). 49:13
The biggest fight is with our own 'Nafs' and the biggest victory is vanquishing the 'Nafs'.

May Allah with His Immense Mercy keep us into His fold.

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#3

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:30 am

I agree with you completely but the problem here is the very question: what is righteousness??

According to abdes or hindus darshan/worship of their dare/diety is the most righteous thing to do but in Islam this is the most worst sin of shirk, so where goes the righteousness?

KA786110
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#4

Unread post by KA786110 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:06 am

I agree with you completely but the problem here is the very question: what is righteousness??
A succinct answer is obedience of God.
Show the traits of mercy, generosity, forgiveness, tolerance, humility and other virtues. Abandon pride, self-glorification, jealousy, hatred, and intolerance toward others. [Follow the Seerat of Holy Prophet (pbuh)]

Allah is the 'Lord of all Worlds', Our Prophet (pbuh) is the 'Mercy for all worlds'. So should not we as practicing Muslims be blessings for this world?
According to abdes or hindus darshan/worship of their dare/diety is the most righteous thing to do but in Islam this is the most worst sin of shirk, so where goes the righteousness?
I would refer back to the same Ayat:
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). 49:13
And would further add that I do not agree with the current trend in some Muslim circles of throwing the term shirk at anything with which they do not agree or do not understand. Remember Allah has said in Quran(16:125)
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.
One should accept that there will be people who will be far from God's Mercy as far as True understanding of His Path is concerned. I pray that Allah's Mercy fall upon the entirety of Humanity.

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1025
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#5

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:03 am

khokhawala
all blatant lies and false perpetated by ummayyads for their own benefits.
prophet said follow the rightly guided caliphs?
did he know them?
rightly guided caliph is a term innovated by later people under ummayyads rule.

"Everyone of them in the Hellfire, except for one group that which I and my companions are upon."
Ali was the best companion of him - -- so follow him

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#6

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:30 am

"Everyone of them in the Hellfire, except for one group that which I and my companions are upon."
Ali was the best companion of him - -- so follow him

I completely agree to this , he did not mention Ali alone but his righteous companions which include the 4 caliphs too.


and regarding following just chanting their names is not enough like how abdes do, you need to actually follow Ali's teachings, which is nothing but the prophet's teaching.

The dispute BETWEEN us was and is never about the progeny of prophet pbuh(Ahlebayt) . The dispute IS about who has the authentic teachings of the progeny preserved to this day. Only a claim is not enough. We have a meticulous science of hadith which ensures that all sayings of the Arch Ahlebayt propeht pbuh have reached us "AS IS". Shias esp Ismailis have no such science due to their reliance on the fanciful theory of Infallible Imams, esotericism and taweel. Its a good theory but it has been proved to not work as the Imam himself has disappared\killed\defaulted etc and one Imam Moiz even converted to coptic Christianity and his baptistry is present to this day , with each sect claiming they have the correct imam or representative. Even daimul Islam is a poor work when it come to sourcing its claims. And various Ismaili sects have difference of opinions on this book itself.
The problem with Daimul Islam is the absence of Ilmul Rijaal (history of narrators) in Daimul Islam. DaimulIslam is just a book of fiqh and not a book of hadith.People do find fiqh interesting but the fiqh should be based on authentic hadith.
Daimul Islam does not even attempt to go into that direction of validating the hadith.It is not even in the domain of a fiqh book to go into this detail. The hadith quoted in daimul Islam dont have the chain of narrators or the reference base. Infact Ismaili Islam does not have a single book of validated hadith. Isna ashari do have it.
Do you know the Ismaili sect aga khani khoja is the only sect which has an unbroken chain of Imamate traceable to the final prophet pbuh to this day. But you see they have abolished namaaz, hajj etc and believe the Imam as mazhar of Allah swt. Hence you have to accept that even the proven descendants of the prophet pbuh can fall into error and misguidance as it is only Allah who guides. Hence rather then showing geneologies we should do research on who has the authentic teachings of ahlebayt preserved via an unbroken chain reaching to the prophet pbuh.
Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih ones. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#7

Unread post by khokawala » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:18 am

AND REGARDIGNG krbala thread it was blocked , you have no proof that he used air mumineen for yazid

bohrikaka
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:43 am

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#8

Unread post by bohrikaka » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:10 am

Hadith science is just like a empty khoka and khokawala has a brain which is also like a empty khoka devoid aql.

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#9

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:20 am

dear khokha
i have the proof, plz be patient.
i will show it to you and all others.

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#10

Unread post by khokawala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:28 am

I know it well and the deep propoganda against dr naik by the Mushrikeen enemies of Islam. but I AGAIN repeat that The dispute BETWEEN us was and is never about the progeny of prophet pbuh(Ahlebayt) . The dispute IS about who has the authentic teachings of the progeny preserved to this day. Only a claim is not enough. We have a meticulous science of hadith which ensures that all sayings of the Arch Ahlebayt propeht pbuh have reached us "AS IS". Shias esp Ismailis have no such science due to their reliance on the fanciful theory of Infallible Imams, esotericism and taweel. Its a good theory but it has been proved to not work as the Imam himself has disappared\killed\defaulted etc and one Imam Moiz even converted to coptic Christianity and his baptistry is present to this day , with each sect claiming they have the correct imam or representative. Even daimul Islam is a poor work when it come to sourcing its claims. And various Ismaili sects have difference of opinions on this book itself.
The problem with Daimul Islam is the absence of Ilmul Rijaal (history of narrators) in Daimul Islam. DaimulIslam is just a book of fiqh and not a book of hadith.People do find fiqh interesting but the fiqh should be based on authentic hadith.
Daimul Islam does not even attempt to go into that direction of validating the hadith.It is not even in the domain of a fiqh book to go into this detail. The hadith quoted in daimul Islam dont have the chain of narrators or the reference base. Infact Ismaili Islam does not have a single book of validated hadith. Isna ashari do have it.
Do you know the Ismaili sect aga khani khoja is the only sect which has an unbroken chain of Imamate traceable to the final prophet pbuh to this day. But you see they have abolished namaaz, hajj etc and believe the Imam as mazhar of Allah swt. Hence you have to accept that even the proven descendants of the prophet pbuh can fall into error and misguidance as it is only Allah who guides. Hence rather then showing geneologies we should do research on who has the authentic teachings of ahlebayt preserved via an unbroken chain reaching to the prophet pbuh.
Infact there are more fabricated hadith then sahih hadith. This is where the science of hadith comes as Allah says "We have, Without doubt, sent down the Zikr(Zikr of Rasulallah): and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)" . The scientific scrutiny of hadith enables us to distinguish the false hadith from the sahih ones. There are very stringent criteria and science to accept or reject a hadith

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#11

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:29 am

i dont have anything against zakir naik per se
i have listened many of his lectures.
some of his lectures are vry gud and thoughtful and intelligently based also.
i only have objections regarding his beleif in ummayyads islam
his calling yazid amirul mumineen- may all be pleas with him.
this only shows how deeply islam has been twisted by salafi and ummayyad regime

bohrikaka
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:43 am

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#12

Unread post by bohrikaka » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:52 am

Even I used to listen to his lectures. But the way he has been shamelessly defending Yazeed LA and defending the the enemies of Ahle Bait AS establishes that he is a nasibi and hence I stopped hearing him from the moment he praised Yazeed LA. This incident also makes it evident that his knowledge about Islamic History and hadith also is pathetically weak. Those who follow him are ruined.

khokawala
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#13

Unread post by khokawala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:10 am

mr qutub,

please dont slander before giving proof, you have not yet given a video proof that he said amir mumin to yazid nor did you give proof for "war for caliphate", salafis dont consider yazid to be amirul mumineen and there are two camps within them one who dislike him and other who ask to remain silent on this issue and not curse nor praise yazid. Zakir naik RA never praised yazid but just put (Rahimullah) and quoted other famous scholars like ghazali, deoband and many seminaries which dont curse yazid and prohibit to do so.


and borikaka:

I dont think you have listened enough of his lectures , he never speaks on such issues only once he spoke on this. Besides Yazid was a Muslim and who knows he may have repented as there are also reports which say that yazid cried and became angry with ibn ziyad who ordered the killings.

Why you people cant accept the fact that zakir naik condemmed the killer of Imam hussain AS which they believe is not yazid but ibn ziyad etc . Is'nt it enough that the killers are condemmed as Yazid was not directly involved. Allah will not ask you about Yazid, who knows Allah may admit yazid to Jannat for his repentance and you to jahannam because of your arrogance and levelling false charges and slanders?

bohrikaka
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:43 am

Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#14

Unread post by bohrikaka » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:37 am

Ibn Abbas letter to Yazid LA

"I received your letter wherein you mentioned Ibn az-Zubair’s invitation to me to swear the oath of allegiance to him, and that I refused due to recognizing your right. If that is the case [as you claim], I desire nothing but being kind to you. But Allah knows best what I intend to do. And you wrote me urging me to encourage people to rally behind you and to discourage them from supporting Ibn az-Zubair... Nay! Neither pleasure nor happiness is here for you; may your mouth be filled with stones, for you are the one whose view is weak when you listened to your own whims and desires, and it is you who is at fault and who shall perish! And you wrote me urging me to hurry and to join my ties of kinship. Withhold your own, man, for I shall withhold from you my affection and my support. By my life, you do not give us of what is in your hand except very little while withholding a lot; may your father lose you! Do you think that I will really forget how you killed al-Hussain (as)and the youths of Banu Abdul-Muttalib, the lanterns that shone in the dark, the stars of guidance, the lamp-posts of piety, and how your horses trampled upon their bodies according to your command, so they were left unburied, drenched in their blood on the desert without any shrouds, nor were they buried, with the wind blowing on them and the wolves invading them, and the heinas assaulting them till Allah sent them people who do not have shirk running through their veins and who shrouded and buried them...? From me and from them come supplications to Allah to torment you! No matter what I forget, I shall never forget how you let loose on them the da’iyy (pretender of following Islam) and the son of the da’iyy ,the one begotten by that promiscuous whore, the one whose lineage is distant, whose father and mother are mean, the one because of whose adoption did your father earn shame, sin, humiliation and abasement in the life of this world and in the hereafter. This is so because the Messenger of Allah (as) said, "The son is begotten by wedlock, whereas for the prostitute there are stones." Your father claims that the son is out of wedlock, and it does not harm the prostitute, and he accepts him as his son just as he does his legitimate offspring! Your father killed the Sunnah with ignorance while deliberately bringing to life all misguidance. And no matter what I forget, I shall never forget how you chased al-Hussain (as)out of the sanctuary of the Messenger of Allah [Medina] to that of Allah Almighty [Mecca], and how you dispatched men to kill him there. You kept trying till you caused him to leave Mecca and to goto Kuf a pursued by your horsemen, with your soldiers roaring at him like lions, O enemy of Allah, of His Messenger (as), and of his Ahlal-Bayt (as)! Then you wrote Marjana’s son ordering him to face al-Hussain (as) with his cavalry and infantry, with spears and swords. And you wrote him ordering him to be swift in attacking him and not to give him time to negotiate any settlement till you killed him and the youths of Banu Abdul-Muttalib who belong to Ahl al-Bayt(as) with him, those from whom Allah removed all abomination and whom He purified with a perfect purification. Such are we, unlike your own uncouth fathers, the livers of donkeys! You knew fully well that he was most prominent in the past and most cherished inthe present, had he only sought refuge in Mecca and permitted bloodshed in its sanctuary. But he sought reconciliation, and he asked you to go back to your senses, yet you went after the few who were in his company and desired to eradicate his Ahl al-Bayt (as) as if you were killing dynasties from Turkey or from Kabul! How do you conceive me as being friendly to you, and how dare you ask me to support you?! You have killed my own brothers, and your sword is dripping with my blood, and you are the one whom I seek for revenge. So if Allah wills, you shall not be able to shed my blood, nor shall you be faster than me in seeking revenge so you would be more swift in killing us just as the prophets are killed, considering their blood equal to that of others. But the promise is with Allah, and Allah suffices in supporting the wronged, and He seeks revenge for the oppressed. What is truly amazing is your own transporting the daughters of Abdul-Muttalib and their children to Syria. You see yourself as our vanquisher, and that you have the right to humiliate us, although through me and through them did Allah bestow blessings upon you and upon your slave parents. By Allah! You welcome the evening and the day in security indifferent to my wounds; so, let my own tongue wound you instead, and let my tying and untying not provoke you to argue. Allah shall not give you are spite following your killing of the Progeny of the Messenger of Allah (as) except for a very short while before He takes you like a Mighty One, and He shall not take you out of the life of this world except as an abased and dejected sinner; so, enjoy your days, may you lose your father, as you please, for what you have committed has surely made you abased in the sight of Allah."

This text is compiled from the contents of p. 250, Vol. 7, of Mujma az- Zawa’id of Abū Bakr al-Haythami, p. 18, Vol. 4 (first edition), of al-Balathiri’s book Ansab al-`Aashraf , p. 77, Vol. 2, of al-Khawarizmi’s great book Maqtal al-Hussain ( ), p. 50, Vol. 4, and of Ibn Katheer’s book At-Tarikh al-Kamil , where the events of the year 64 A.H./684 A.D. are detailed, an account which agrees with what is recorded in al-Mas'udi’s book Muraj at-Thahab

khokawala
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#15

Unread post by khokawala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:10 am

Thats a lie , you have copy pasted from shia isna ashari sources (I also know the exact book from where you lifted this and that book is full of lies) even the one refrence about ibn kathir you gave is concocted. I hope you verify things before blindly copy pasting.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#16

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:52 am

mr.khokha
why doesnt one sect of you curse yazid and remain silent?
this is what i was all the way trying to bring to notice to others.
gud u admitted it. if they love prophet and his family as claimed by them, surely they would hate his killer.
your all ideology is based on umayyads version who had deep hatred for banu hashim.

now ur twisted justification that may be yazid did not kill and repented.
this is also the same i have heared in many salafi lectures(umayyads followers--islam twisted by umayyads)
first of he ordered to take bait of him in medina.
next he replaced governor of kufa with ibn ziad and explicitly ordered him to take bait or kill.
third after the battle he gave higher position to all who took part in the battle and rewarded them handsomely.
this is all authentically documented.

fourth for the arguements sake --even if he repented, the killing of innocent people and that too nawasa of his
prophet deserves to be in hell fire.

as for the video--cant u wait plz it is like finding needle in haystack in the jungle of youtube.
he spoke only once regarding this according to you--may be correct --i dont know--and i have heared that one only.
and thats why it is getting difficult to find. will u be little patient.
another thing--why did he speak only one time. why all like him are shying away to speak many times.
the fact that they feel uncomfortable speaking this itself shows their beleif is total false, otherwise they would have
gone bang and bang on this.
i have also noticed they rarely speak clearly on this.
themselves they never speak on the most important matter which had profound effect in generations to come.
they go on speaking of bidaa and shirk and blaha blaha in every sermon and every nook and corner and on the top
of thier voice , on tv , basically everywhere here and there.
but the moment u ask question about karbala they feel uneasy to answer their body language change and only answer if prodded too much.
same with zakir naik. in the question and answer session he first ignored it, and after repeating it only he answered.

khokawala
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#17

Unread post by khokawala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:17 am

well they already condemmed the killer, karbala is an embarassing incident which should not have occured hence a mumin does not like to be reminded of embarassing incidents. Allah will not ask you about yazid.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#18

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:33 am

they do not condemn
say vague things like--i have heared it directly from horse mouth
oh it happend 1400 yrs ago, what is the relevance now?
oh it happend after 60 yrs in islam--it has nothing to do with islam.
oh some mistakes happend from both sides who knows?
even if some mistakes happend, who r we to judge, let Allah decide.
we dont have proof who was correct?
oh why r u asking about this, r u of deviant beleif(i didnt reveal the identity in the madrassa i went, otherwise thought they would not let me) ask question about Quran and sunnah.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#19

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:44 am

they dont curse yazid by name.
why?
still they are in doubt he is a gud man?
but rest of all regarding Allah , Quran and sunnah--they are not in doubt--so vehemently propagating

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#20

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:46 am

they know everything about prophet and quran and sunnah.
they think they are all right about whatever they know about hadith.
but they are in doubt about who killed imam husain.
so not cursing by taking name.
very good keep it

humanbeing
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#21

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:17 am

khokawala wrote:well they already condemmed the killer, karbala is an embarassing incident which should not have occured hence a mumin does not like to be reminded of embarassing incidents. Allah will not ask you about yazid.
That is very wrong, insensitive of you to say such words. The event in karbala is a lesson, many lessons to learn from and thank allah as well as Imam Hussein and every shaheed and member who went through the torture to keep the flag of faith high. They laid an example for future generations to embibe. very unthankful and insensitive of you to say such words, shame !

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#22

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:00 am

this is what i was trying to say all along.
thier beleifs are corrupted.
their gangotri from which they take all knowlege(usman and mauaywiays period) itself is corrupted.
so whatever later scholars researched even if they are honest, they ultimately reached this corrupted gangotri.
just wanted to expose their true Aqeeda.
dont want to get trap in their only Allah, Quran and sunnah rhetoric.

KA786110
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#23

Unread post by KA786110 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:27 pm

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:just wanted to expose their true Aqeeda.
dont want to get trap in their only Allah, Quran and sunnah rhetoric.
Well put. Keep strong in your beliefs and understanding. Do not get pressurized.

The true test of a faithful is how he/she behaved after the Prophet(PBUH) left this world. The true Shahabas (they were very few) of the Prophet (PBUH) remained faithful to the command of Allah which was delivered by the Prophet(PBUH) at Ghadir-e-khum. Those who were shaky in their faith ignored the Ghadir-E-Khum proclamation and ran to Sakifa to get worldly power. Do you know how many attended Holy Prophet's(PBUH) funeral?

As Iqbal says:
Ki Muhammad (s.a.w) se wafa tune to hum tere hain,
Ye jahaan cheez hai kya loh-o-qalam tere hain

khokawala
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Re: The Saved Sect: Verdict of the literalist reformer's rea

#24

Unread post by khokawala » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:51 am

bro they are apolitical , whereas shiism is all about politics. Like it or not the '"wahhabis" are the people who are closest to true and pure Islam. Even christians got misguided in love of jesus so are shias\sunnis all bcoz of exaggeration