Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

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DisillusionedDB
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1021

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:27 am

Mkenya wrote:Ozdundee and Disillusioned: Can you please through some light on the fact that in today's world there is a massive imbalance in terms of division of wealth. The world today has a larger portion of younger educated people who are under or unemployed than anytime in history. The division of wealth is disproportionate. Would you not think that politicians channel the frustrations of these people to carrum their own agenda. All it requires for such group to go on rampage is a flimsy cause fanned by self-serving politicians. How far can one go back in history to redress the past. And who is interested in the past anyway. In India there is strong undercurrent to build a mandir in Ayodhya; a politician proposed to have Gita entrenched as the national book of India. These are just two examples of how the embers of past are kept alive and fanned once in a while to tet the wind.
Yes, there is a severe imbalance in division of wealth in today's world. But does that mean we can legally or justifiably loot the wealth of the rich to give to the poor ? What we can do is urge them (peacefully) to be more philanthropic and spend their wealth in the upliftment of the poor masses. The same argument applies to the injustice done by past rulers.
You are right in saying that it is the self-serving kursi-clutching politicians who are raking up and keeping alive the fires of communal disharmony. Regarding a politician proposing to make Gita the national book of India, I would only say that I see a trend of systematic hinduisation of a secular democracy. In the same breath, one can also see how education ministries are changing the textbooks and thereby trying to distort history to make it more palatable/favourable to hinduism.

Ozdundee
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1022

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:13 am

And as if Mulsim leaders and Mullas are not clutching to divisive agenda to remain in power or receive funding.

What I stated if Muslims don't expense enough in reconciliation and rather hold their ground then many innocent will continue getting hurt in communal fights , the seeds of hatred will continue.

The modis of this world will continue be popular .

Choice is yours choose ...this discussion was as a result of understanding why Hindu nationalism is on the rise...Muslim past is a fuel but not only reason. By not saying sorry but on another hand glorify the past and its successes for the mugal empire is hypocrisy .

Bohras are not the remaining defendants of mugals , but there are many communities who are , however for Bohra we should at least show regret if it is true that mugals mistreated non Muslims . As we regret modern day terrorists and tyrant regimes.

DisillusionedDB
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1023

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:58 am

Are you trying to say that the Muslims should apologise to the world for the actions of the likes of AL Baghdadi and Bin Laden ?

haqniwaat
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1024

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:08 am

DisillusionedDB wrote:Are you trying to say that the Muslims should apologise to the world for the actions of the likes of AL Baghdadi and Bin Laden ?
Just as much as Christians should apologize to the world for Hitler. How can you even post something like this?! Muslims are not one group - there are countless splinters of Muslims. And these terrorists are all Sunni! So should we ask all Sunnis to apologize?! Please, don't post such rubbish! What does this have to do with Narendra Modi?!

Ozdundee
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1025

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:42 am

Yes we should show regret that these fools are using our religious identity...Muslims need to distance themselves from these terrorists and yes we should show regret if there is evidence that Muslim expansion in India caused death and suffering to other faiths and make it clear that the death of innocents was unintentional , I hope if you get off your high horse and confirm the deaths were unintentional ! If it was intentional and there was genocide then definitely sorry is required

It is common knowledge that Isis recite from the same book as we read, use that same Allah Akber when killing...use the same shariat as basis of their terror. So they are easily identifiable as Muslims. We should show regret that we have allowed such extreme ideology cultivate within our societies and did not stop it sooner. But better late than never.

There are active groups in my locality that is bridging the devide and we do say yes we regret but we are not all the same, we are as ashamed by them sharing some parts of our ideology. It takes high honor to show compassion and regret . It is not a sign of defeat or under value to say sorry. Is it cultural that some societies find it difficult to say sorry ?

More recently the Australia government also against similar objection said sorry for humiliating Aboriginal Australians ...even though it was after 100 years . The healing has commenced and even Modi acknowledged them when in Australia .

For the one who mentioned Christian , the Catholic Church is taking accountability and showing regret that they did not speak out when hitler killed Jews ! The Catholic Church is finally showing regret about child abuse ...that shows morally how advanced some societies have gone forward!

haqniwaat
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1026

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:58 am

Ozdundee Bhai, Muslims are not the Catholic Church. Muslims are equated with Christians. Not all Christians are Catholic and not all Muslims are Sunnis or Wahabis. Why should anyone who is not associated with these groups apologize for anything?! You are saying that Islam should apologize?! What nonsense!

Ozdundee
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1027

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:10 am

Haqniwaat India has Muslim organisations that act as leaders that includes waqf boards, mufti, and are decedents of a religion brought by Mugal conquer. It is they who are to take the initiative .

If Bohras don't consider the, as Muslims that is true they were as a result of missionaries arriving from Yemen . However they benefited from Mogul rule as they were tolerated when they were propagating their form of Islam amongst the Gujarat .

where did I. Say islam has to apologise ...how can a religion say sorry it is its followers Muslims who need to say sorry. You may like To identify yourself as non Muslim or non sunni that is your choice ...I recognised myself as Muslim by religion , Bohra by tradition , I am obligated to share the image Muslims generally are perceived by.

I know we got carried away but this strong denial , does it mean there was persecution and violation of the Hindus freedom ..the conversion was not bloodless ? I know it is hard to accept guilt.

Now imagine what must be going through in a Hindu mind if we deny and they read in their history the suffering .

The question of Ayodya ...what is the truth was there a temple which was demolished , not a purchase of land to build a mosque ?

I don't think india will ever become a completely Muslim country in the near future, Muslims and Hindus will need to find a way to live side by side and practise their faiths without fear...others such issues will keep deviding people . Would it be wrong to expect as in Jerusalem 3 faiths pray at the same location.

Can you imagine if it was the other way round ?
Last edited by Ozdundee on Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1028

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:12 am

not all muslims are sunnis and wahabis, agreed
but the perception is that--right or wrong.
it is the duty of every muslim to clear that perception.
it is our perception, so we only have to correct it.
nobody else will do it on our behalf
and intospect also why this perception has got created

haqniwaat
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1029

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:18 am

Yes, I agree with all of you, but we must inform - especially westerners - that Islam and Muslims is not one big group. It is splintered, just as Christianity is splintered. And yes, terrorism can never be Islamic, even though terrorists call themselves Muslims. And we all vehemently condemn terrorism. Agreed.
But the West also needs to understand that using the word "Muslim" and "Islamic" in front of every terrorist act is unfair and creates discrimination against all Muslims. They purposely try to use these words. And we should not give in to that. Rather, we should oppose it and say that use the correct word for describing them. If they are ISIS, call them ISIS, not Islamic terror! It is like saying that the Crusades were Christian terror and the British in India were Christian terror. Get the drift!?

Ozdundee
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1030

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:25 am

Haqniwaat Isis stands for islamic State of Iraq and Syria it has islamic in its name , it is not I plied it is clear it has the shahadat in its flag and Allah Akber as its emblem let us not get naive and foolish that it is not based on misplaced islamic ideology. Such denials are the cause of lose of integrity and is what tarnishes everyone as hypocrite .

You may have an issue with west , I dont I live in the western style society and the west has permitted to practise my faith and gives me welfare, they look after me when I'm am sick, protect me when I am oppressed or lost, provide me a home . I will always stand up and put my life on the line to protect it even if it means if I need to take my faith based fellows head on. I am an Australian Muslim.

The best way is to condemn them and withdraw their right to use any association with islam..and excommunicate them and join the west in destroying them.
Last edited by Ozdundee on Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1031

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:27 am

but the terrorist are using the word islamic
they r the ones using religion
ISIS itself says it wants to establish islamic world and whatever they r doing is as per quran.
and so all the other organisation like muslim brotherhood , salafi, qaeda etc.
so before westerners stop using islamic word, they should stop it.
westeners dont know anything, they are just imitating what these groups called themselves.

haqniwaat
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1032

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:28 am

Agreed. We are all joined in destroying them. But the West does not have the right to label Muslims as terrorists. I suppose you haven't been the brunt of discrimination in the West. I do not agree that Muslims around the world should apologize for the actions of terrorists like ISIS.

haqniwaat
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1033

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:34 am

Let's get this clear, once and for all. I am Shi'a and Dawoodi Bohra. ISIS is anti-Shia, not just anti-western. I am a victim of ISIS even more so than a westerner. ISIS has sworn to kill Shi'a first! To conclude this, let me just say that if you want me to apologize for my enemy ISIS, then I do not wish to be called Muslim. How's that?! Shi'ato Ali'yin homul faa'ezun! This evil of terrorism is a part of Sunni-ism and believers of Awwal, Thaani, Thaalith. Let's get to the crux of this. I am not a part of them. They are the true terrorists.
Last edited by haqniwaat on Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1034

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:36 am

yes west do not have that right.
but who will tell them that all muslims are not terrorist.
and first of all why r they saying this?
coz of some people?
so what r the silent majority doing to counter it?
just keeping silent?
instead of blaming west for their wrongness, address the issue why this wrong and hatred is created in first place
tackle the root of the problem.
it that is gone, perception will also go

Ozdundee
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1035

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:38 am

haqniwaat wrote:Let's get this clear, once and for all. I am Shi'a and Dawoodi Bohra. ISIS is anti-Shia, not just anti-western. I am a victim of ISIS even more so than a westerner. ISIS has sworn to kill Shi'a first! To conclude this, let me just say that if you want me to apologize for my enemy ISIS, then I do not wish to be called Muslim. How's that?!
I am a Muslim and I am sorry such terrorist seek identity from us, we are with the victims of terror and will eject these people . We will not give them room to grow and propagate .

We are also sorry if people in the past who shared our ideology caused you grief or hurt. We are a religion of peace and will focus on it as we share the same air, space and future!

haqniwaat
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1036

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:39 am

Let's get this clear, once and for all. I am Shi'a and Dawoodi Bohra. ISIS is anti-Shia, not just anti-western. I am a victim of ISIS even more so than a westerner. ISIS has sworn to kill Shi'a first! To conclude this, let me just say that if you want me to apologize for my enemy ISIS, then I do not wish to be called Muslim. How's that?! Shi'ato Ali'yin homul faa'ezun! This evil of terrorism is a part of Sunni-ism and believers of Awwal, Thaani, Thaalith. Let's get to the crux of this. I am not a part of them. They are the true terrorists. The West knows this but purposely is ignoring this. Don't be naive.

SBM
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1037

Unread post by SBM » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:37 pm

For all those who ask if Muslim Condemns ISIL or other terrorist groups in the name of Islam here is the link
http://muslimscondemningthings.tumblr.com/
And by the way it is us Muslims who have to condemn the terrorism, does any one condemns the thousands of innocent people getting killed by DRONE attacks everyday-- oh I forgot we got a fancy word for that it is called "Collateral Damage". While it is shame that 3 thousand people lost their lives in 9/11 but who started terrorism on innocents just think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for appetizer and then continue with Vietnam and now Muslim ruled countries.
DO I HEAR CONDEMNATION OF THESE INNOCENTS BY CIVILIZED DEMOCRACIES WHICH HAPPENS TO BE NON MUSLIMS :roll:

DisillusionedDB
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1038

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:12 pm

BTW, Ozdundee, there is difference between apologising and expressing regret. Of course, we regret the fact that atrocities may have been committed during the Mughal rule in the same breath as we regret the fact that atrocities have been committed on the Jews by Hitler. But there is no way we are liable to apologise for anything done by others in the name of Islam. Come on man, we don't have ANY CONTROL on what any person does in the name of Islam. So are we supposed to keep apologising for Mughal kings, Saddam Husain, Idi Amin, Bin Laden, Al Baghdadi and others ?

anajmi
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1039

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:54 pm

Ozdundee wrote:Anajmi you are sure that Hindus were not persecuted under Mugal rule as Islam was expanding in India ?

If we don't address that and are in self denial it will be difficult to reach reconciliation. Remove the cause of discontent and the world is a better place. Learn from how the west in first and Second World War acknowledged issues of hitler, Japanese imperialism, wars, war crimes and Germany , Japan and west are now United and their people are focussed on other issues .
No. Hindus were not persecuted under Mughal rule as Islam was expanding in India. Mughal rulers were too busy living a life to extravagance. The Hindus were loyal subjects. The Hindus bowed down in front of anyone who displayed power. The mughals came, they conquered other armies and the subjects that were conquered bowed down before them. And they lived happily after that. The mughals didn't come to India to steal the indian resources. They came to India to settle down and make a home. Unlike the british who came to India to steal its resources. Every find out if the british apologized for their persection of the hindus and muslims in India? Who was a bigger threat to the british? The hindus or the muslims?

The cause of discontent is not the mughal rule but what the british did to India. Ask them to apologize.

anajmi
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1040

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:11 pm

Yes we should show regret that these fools are using our religious identity...Muslims need to distance themselves from these terrorists
On please my brother. We have heard this complaint ad nauseum and Muslims have done what you ask thousands of times. I have stated on this board dozens of times that I do not approve of killing of innocents in the name of Islam, but the supposedly educated folks right here on this forum refuse to acknowledge that. You think people who actually want to blame the entire muslim ummah are going to pay heed to some muslims distancing themselves from bin laden? And pray tell us how are we supposed to "distance" ourselves from these terrorists? Becomes Hindus and Christians? Cause obviously nothing else we do is helping us "distance" ourselves from them is it?

It has been explained many times by many scholars that the Quran as interpreted by the bin ladens and the isis-es is incorrect, but then people come back and tell us that they have interpreted it right. We are the ones who have interpreted it wrong. So, there is no way a muslim is going to be able to "distance" himself from these terrorist cause nobody is looking to weed out terrorism. Terrorism is a tool for politicians just like campaign money. We aren't that naive to still not see this are we?

First you apologized for Al-Kidda, then you apologize for the taliban, then apologize for Boko-Haraam, then you apologize for ISIS. Stop apologizing. Start telling people to stop bullshitting and bundling these terrorists together with Islam and muslims. Heck, even Obama said ISIS is not following Islam. In fact ISIS has killed more muslims than non-muslims.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1041

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:31 pm

Biden’s Admission: US Allies Armed ISIS

Speaking to students at Harvard’s John F. Kennedy Forum Thursday, US Vice President Joseph Biden committed what the US media characterizes as a “gaffe.” In other words, he told an embarrassing truth about US government policy, one that is usually obfuscated in the remarks of government officials and the commentaries of media pundits.

Asked about US policy in Syria, Biden touched on the dirty secret of the current US-led war against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. ISIS (or ISIL as the Obama administration terms it) is essentially the creation of the United States and its allies who fomented civil war in Syria against the government of President Bashar al-Assad.

Referring to Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, Biden said,


“They were so determined to take down Assad and essentially have a proxy Sunni-Shia war, what did they do? They poured hundreds of millions of dollars and tens, thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad—except that the people who were being supplied were al Nusra and al Qaeda and the extremist elements of jihadis coming from other parts of the world.”

“Now you think I’m exaggerating,” he continued, to emphasize his point. “Take a look! Where did all of this go?” Biden claimed that the US opposed arming these al Qaeda-linked groups, which included ISIS, adding, “We could not convince our colleagues to stop supplying them.”

It is testament to the degeneracy of the American political system that the circumstances behind ISIS’s rise, alluded to in Biden’s remarks, have not been the subject of any investigation. There have been no calls in Congress for hearings to examine the origins of an organization whose actions have been seized on to proclaim a new war in the Middle East.

As for the media, it merely serves as a government mouthpiece. Significantly, no US media source reported or commented on these portions of Biden’s remarks at Harvard. But once the comments were publicized, first by the Russian-based RT network, then throughout the Middle East, Biden hastened to mend fences with the offended client states
.


Whatever the level of “intentionality” involved, ISIS was the recipient of the US-supported arms aid to the Syrian rebels, routed by the CIA through Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Turkey and other Mideast client states. The State Department and CIA were well aware that the Syrian rebels included many Islamic militants, including those linked to al-Qaeda, because it had previously employed many of these fighters in the overthrow of the Gaddafi regime in Libya in 2011.

Originally established as Al Qaeda in Iraq during the eight years of warfare that followed the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, the group only took the name ISIS in April 2013, long after it had built up significant strength in Syria as part of the US-backed rebel forces fighting the Assad regime.

In other words, as Biden admits, ISIS was created by the methods pursued by the US government and its allied reactionary regimes, both the Islamist government of Erdogan in Turkey and the Gulf monarchies like Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

As long as ISIS gathered strength in Syria, as part of the US-backed “rebels” opposed to Assad, it was encouraged in its ambitions. It was only when ISIS moved its forces back across the border from Syria into Iraq—and in particular threatened oil-rich regions in northern Iraq—did the Obama administration move against it.

The contradictions in US policy persist. Even as it seeks to forestall ISIS’s advance, the US is arming and promoting “moderate” forces within Syria that are openly allied with al-Nusra and other Islamic fundamentalist groups. The main target of American imperialism remains the Syrian government, which is also the reason why Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey and other countries that fostered ISIS and are hostile to the Assad regime are now supporting the operation.

The “war against ISIS,” America’s erstwhile ally against the Assad regime, is only the latest episode in the intervention of US imperialism in the Middle East, whose goal is not freedom, or democracy, or the struggle against “terrorism,” but the domination of the oil-rich region and the preparation of new and even bloodier wars against Iran and against the main targets of Washington: Russia and China.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/bidens-adm ... is/5406539

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1042

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:09 pm

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:but who will tell them that all muslims are not terrorist.
and first of all why r they saying this?
Terrorism and the other Religions

Contrary to what is alleged by bigots like Bill Maher, Muslims are not more violent than people of other religions. Murder rates in most of the Muslim world are very low compared to the United States.

As for political violence, people of Christian heritage in the twentieth century polished off tens of millions of people in the two world wars and colonial repression. This massive carnage did not occur because European Christians are worse than or different from other human beings, but because they were the first to industrialize war and pursue a national model. Sometimes it is argued that they did not act in the name of religion but of nationalism. But, really, how naive. Religion and nationalism are closely intertwined. The British monarch is the head of the Church of England, and that still meant something in the first half of the twentieth century, at least. The Swedish church is a national church. Spain? Was it really unconnected to Catholicism? Did the Church and Francisco Franco’s feelings toward it play no role in the Civil War? And what’s sauce for the goose: much Muslim violence is driven by forms of modern nationalism, too.

I don’t figure that Muslims killed more than a 2 million people or so in political violence in the entire twentieth century, and that mainly in the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988 and the Soviet and post-Soviet wars in Afghanistan, for which Europeans bear some blame.

Compare that to the Christian European tally of, oh, lets say 100 million (16 million in WW I, 60 million in WW II– though some of those were attributable to Buddhists in Asia– and millions more in colonial wars.)

Belgium– yes, the Belgium of strawberry beer and quaint Gravensteen castle– conquered the Congo and is estimated to have killed off half of its inhabitants over time, some 8 million people at least.

Or, between 1916-1930 Tsarist Russian and then Soviet forces — facing the revolt of Central Asians trying to throw off Christian (and then Marxist), European rule — Russian forces killed an estimated 1.5 million people
.
Two boys brought up in or born in one of those territories (Kyrgyzstan) just killed 4 people and wounded others critically. That is horrible, but no one, whether in Russia or in Europe or in North America has the slightest idea that Central Asians were mass-murdered during WW I and before and after, and looted of much of their wealth. Russia when it brutally conquered and ruled the Caucasus and Central Asia was an Eastern Orthodox, Christian empire (and seems to be reemerging as one!).

Then, between half a million and a million Algerians died in that country’s war of independence from France, 1954-1962, at a time when the population was only 11 million!

I could go on and on. Everywhere you dig in European colonialism in Afro-Asia, there are bodies. Lots of bodies.

Now that I think of it, maybe 100 million people killed by people of European Christian heritage in the twentieth century is an underestimate.

As for religious terrorism, that too is universal. Admittedly, some groups deploy terrorism as a tactic more at some times than others. Zionists in British Mandate Palestine were active terrorists in the 1940s, from a British point of view, and in the period 1965-1980, the FBI considered the Jewish Defense League among the most active US terrorist groups. (Members at one point plotted to assassinate Rep. Dareell Issa (R-CA) because of his Lebanese heritage.) Now that Jewish nationalsts are largely getting their way, terrorism has declined among them. But it would likely reemerge if they stopped getting their way. In fact, one of the arguments Israeli politicians give for allowing Israeli squatters to keep the Palestinian land in the West Bank that they have usurped is that attempting to move them back out would produce violence. I.e., the settlers not only actually terrorize the Palestinians, but they form a terrorism threat for Israel proper (as the late prime minister Yitzhak Rabin discovered).

Even more recently, it is difficult for me to see much of a difference between Tamerlan Tsarnaev and Baruch Goldstein, perpetrator of the Hebron massacre.

Or there was the cold-blooded bombing of the Ajmer shrine in India by Bhavesh Patel and a gang of Hindu nationalists. Chillingly, they were disturbed when a second bomb they had set did not go off, so that they did not wreak as much havoc as they would have liked. Ajmer is an ecumenical Sufi shrine also visited by Hindus, and these bigots wanted to stop such open-minded sharing of spiritual spaces because they hate Muslims.

Buddhists have committed a lot of terrorism and other violence as well. Many in the Zen orders in Japan supported militarism in the first half of the twentieth century, for which their leaders later apologized. And, you had Inoue Shiro’s assassination campaign in 1930s Japan. Nowadays militant Buddhist monks in Burma/ Myanmar are urging on an ethnic cleansing campaign against the Rohingya.

As for Christianity, the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda initiated hostilities that displaced two million people. Although it is an African cult, it is Christian in origin and the result of Western Christian missionaries preaching in Africa. If Saudi Wahhabi preachers can be in part blamed for the Taliban, why do Christian missionaries skate when we consider the blowback from their pupils?

Despite the very large number of European Muslims, in 2007-2009 less than 1 percent of terrorist acts in that continent were committed by people from that community
.


Terrorism is a tactic of extremists within each religion, and within secular religions of Marxism or nationalism. No religion, including Islam, preaches indiscriminate violence against innocents.

It takes a peculiar sort of blindness to see Christians of European heritage as “nice” and Muslims and inherently violent, given the twentieth century death toll I mentioned above. Human beings are human beings and the species is too young and too interconnected to have differentiated much from group to group. People resort to violence out of ambition or grievance, and the more powerful they are, the more violence they seem to commit. The good news is that the number of wars is declining over time, and World War II, the biggest charnel house in history, hasn’t been repeated.

http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/terrori ... gions.html

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1043

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:14 pm

Ozdundee wrote:The question of Ayodya ...what is the truth was there a temple which was demolished , not a purchase of land to build a mosque ?
History of December 6, 1992: How Lord Rama Appeared Inside Babri Masjid

On December 23, 1949,the Ayodhya Police filed an FIR following the planting of the idol of Lord Rama in Babri Masjid the night before. It named Abhiram Das as the prime accused. The secret story of what happened.

According to the plan, Paramhans was to arrive at the Hanumangarhi residence of Abhiram Das by 9 pm, after his meal. They were to go together to the Babri Masjid, where another sadhu, Vrindavan Das, was to join them with an idol of Lord Rama. The trio was then supposed to go inside the sixteenth-century mosque, plant the idol below its central dome and keep the deserted place of worship under their control till the next morning when a larger band of Hindu communalists would pour in for support. They had been strictly instructed that their entry into the mosque had to be completed at any cost before midnight – the time when there would be a change of guard at the gate of the mosque.

FULL ARTICLE :-

http://caravandaily.com/portal/the-hist ... ri-masjid/

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1044

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:10 pm

Red Fort is Hindu Lalkot, Christmas is Crishna-mas,Italy was a Hindu Country and Pope a Hindu Priest’: ltihas Shodh Sansthan

News Delhi , 13 Dec 2014 : Pampering with history or better we call it re-writing history has been on top priority of RSS & Co . What is being revealed today about Taj Mahal and other Muslim historical monuments are no new revelations by the Hindutva groups, they have been working to rewrite history since their birth. According to their historians the famous Taj Mahal was in actual fact ‘an ancient Hindu temple-palace complex commandeered for use as Mumtaz’s tomb’!

That ‘Delhi’s Red Fort is Hindu Lalkot’, that the Mughal metropolis Delhi was itself founded by the much earlier Hindu ‘Pandvas or King Anangpal of the 11 th century A.D.’ or ‘some other Hindu monarch’!!

So was the Red Fort in Agra. It was ‘a Hindu building … Fatehpur Sikri is a Hindu city … Townships like Ferozabad, Tughlakabad, Ahmedabad and Hyderabad have been falsely ascribed to this or that sultan though they are ancient Hindu townships’.

An inventory which must cover the whole millennium of Muslim rule in India would be naturally inexhaustible; therefore, suffice it to say that ‘all mediaeval historic buildings in India from Kashmir to Cape Comorin are one and all pre-Muslim Hindu buildings. They were only captured and usurped and put to Islamic use’
.

If this appeared to be pretty ‘revolutionary history’, then hold your breath.

‘Ancient Italy was a Hindu country and the Pope, a Hindu priest.’

‘English is a dialect of Sanskrit.’

Ancient England too was ‘a Hindu country.’

‘The term Christmas is Crishna-mas, i.e. the month of Crishna, the Hindu incarnation at the time of the Mahabharata era. The word “mas” in Sanskrit means “month”.

‘Westminster Abbey in London is generally known as a church, as a building where English monarchs are crowned and as a place where Englishmen of distinction are buried, but its fourth and most astounding role which is unknown is that Westminster Abbey is also a very ancient Shiva temple since it continues to house an ancient sacred Hindu stone emblem since 1296 A.D.

‘What is of further and even greater importance is that a sacred Hindu stone continues to be in a way Great Britain’s royal deity almost exactly as Lord Shiva has been the Hindu rulers’ deity in India since time immemorial.’

All these ‘original’ findings were neatly researched and put together as long ago as 1973 by ‘Prof Amarnath, Member, Institute for Rewriting Indian History’, Delhi in his seminal title, ‘Some missing chapters of world history’ (ltihas Shodh Sansthan – Organisation for Purifying History, Mehrauli, New Delhi-30).

Courtesy : Impact International, London

http://muslimmirror.com/eng/red-fort-is ... -sansthan/

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1045

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:43 am

SP leader Azam Khan claims the media 'made a killer the PM'

Addressing the gathering at the event, Azam reportedly said: “Media ne ek hatyare ko wazire- azam bana diya” (Media has made a killer the Prime Minister).

Trying to invoke the 2002 Gujarat riots, when PM Narendra Modi was chief minister of the state, the SP leader said: “The media is crossing its limit by taking up one issue and suppressing the other. The country will pay for it.”

A furious Azam further said: “Media luti hui izzat dikhati hai, ped par latki bacchiyon ki lashen dikhati hai…Media Mulayam Singh Yadav ke janmdin ke kharche ka hisab maangti hai. Lekin Adani ki daulat saat guna ho gai to uspar koi jawab nahin mangti” (Media shows the violated honour of a woman, it shows the body of girls hanging from a tree, it asks questions about the expenses on Mulayam Singh Yadav’s birthday celebrations. But it doesn’t question the wealth of (Gautam) Adani, which has increased seven-fold).

The UP minister also targeted UP Governor Ram Naik for supporting the construction of Ram temple in Ayodhya, and said: “He appears more like a priest of Ayodhya than the Governor.”

Azam also ridiculed those Hindu organisations which are involved in religious conversion, saying: “They should have opened the doors of temples and their hearts first before trying to insult Muslims in the name of conversion.”

However, minutes after Azam’s statement, a senior Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) leader in Ayodhya dubbed Azam a Hindu by origin.

VHP secretary general Champat Rai said: “He shouldn’t be annoyed about anything. He must know he is a Hindu by origin. Azam should undergo a DNA test if he has any doubt about it.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... paign=1490

SBM
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1046

Unread post by SBM » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:39 am

Br GM and Admin
Is it okay if this thread is now moved to some other place since now most of the discussion or mostly posting by Br GM has nothing to do with Bohras but rather deals with NaMo only---just a suggestion..

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1047

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:42 pm

Ozdundee wrote:does it mean there was persecution and violation of the Hindus freedom ..the conversion was not bloodless ?
Mass Conversion to Islam: Theories and Protagonists

The most interesting fact revealed by the census of 1872 was the enormous host of Muhammadans resident in Lower Bengal—not massed around the old capitals, but in the alluvial plains of the Delta.

None of these [eastern] districts contains any of the places famous as the head-quarters of Muhammadan rulers. Dacca was the residence of the Nawab for about a hundred years, but it contains a smaller proportion of Muslims than any of the surrounding districts, except Faridpur. Malda and Murshidabad contain the old capitals, which were the center of Musalman rule for nearly four and a half centuries, and yet the Muslims form a smaller proportion of the population than they do in the adjacent districts of Dinajpur, Rajshahi, and Nadia.

Hinduism had prohibited the outcast from residing in the same village as the twice-born Brahman, had forced him to perform the most menial and repulsive occupations, and had virtually treated him as an animal undeserving of any pity; but Islam announced that the poor, as well as the rich, the slave and his master, the peasant and the prince, were of equal value in the eyes of God. Above all, the Brahman held out no hopes of a future world to the most virtuous helot, while the Mulla not only proffered assurances of felicity in this world, but of an indefeasible inheritance in the next.

If large numbers of rural Muslims were not observed until as late as the end of the sixteenth century or afterward, we face a paradox—namely, that mass Islamization occurred under a regime, the Mughals, that as a matter of policy showed no interest in proselytizing on behalf of the Islamic faith. Ruling over a vast empire built upon a bottom-heavy agrarian base, Mughal officials were primarily interested in enhancing agricultural productivity by extracting as much of the surplus wealth of the land as they could, and in using that wealth to the political end of creating loyal clients at every level of administration. Although there were always conservative ‘ulamā who insisted on the emperors’ “duty” to convert the Hindu “infidels” to Islam, such a policy was not in fact implemented in Bengal, even during the reign of the conservative emperor Aurangzeb (1658–1707).

Our attention must therefore turn to the Mughal period in Bengal. Was it merely coincidence that the bulk of the delta’s peasant Muslim population emerged after the advent of Mughal rule, or did deeper forces link these two phenomena?

READ FULL ARTICLE :-

http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpresseboo ... nk.id=ch05
.

Mkenya
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1048

Unread post by Mkenya » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:19 am

THE BOHRAS FALL AT THE FEET OF NARENDRA MODI TOO.
People, Let us get back to this topic.

dawedaar
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Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1049

Unread post by dawedaar » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:50 pm

I feel that this insignificant topic is being stretched like an unbreakable rubber band. Time to shut down this thread.

ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Bohras fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#1050

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:58 pm

dawedaar wrote:I feel that this insignificant topic is being stretched like an unbreakable rubber band. Time to shut down this thread.
Modi is quite 'Significant' now as he is the PM of our country and was equally 'Significant' before because he was the chief architect of Gujarat Mass Genocide of 2002 in which the sufferers were Muslims (including Bohras) and this being a Bohra forum and Bohras being a part of Muslim world should be kept abreast of the goings on with regard to Modi and his decision making process which badly effects Muslims at large-------- Mass conversion of Muslims, Deliberate communal riots instigated during assembly elections, innocent Muslims being booked for terror activities and many such cases wherein justice is hardly seen to be done.