Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

[fustrate_Bohra]

This is an eye opener as to
WHY MUFADDAL IS SEEKING TARIKH PE TARIKH?

True followers of dawoodi bohra dont you think Why Mufaddal whom you consider as true dai is asking for so many dates even though he claims that he is having so many documents as evidences for nass done on him apart from Hospital and Raudat tahera and hindu dream drama.

Dont you think even after having so much political power, money power and public support why this case ((which can be closed in few months) is getting stretched like rubber band and also couple of justice has been changed.

I had not seen any delay from kqs side.

This raise the question WERE THE EVIDENCES PRODUCE BEFORE COURTS WERE FORGED?

Their intention for seeking time is a ploy during which they can turn results in their favor either by hook or crook.

For me couple of instances were enough which made me believe to the core of my heart that MS is lying.
1) Dream of unknown Hindu man were he sees SMB
2) Hospital drama were doctors report stated that smb was not fit to utter a word or to have a sip of sherbet, countering this, MS said in one of his bayan "Doctors jai ke te kai pan apne to apna dai ne olakhye che ne" some thing like this.
3) and last Seeking dates after dates which further delays final hearing.

Jago Momin jago. START TO THINK. Its unfortunate that we dont understand quran otherwise we would have come to know that THINKING and ASKING is NOT a crime.

[ghulam muhammed]

Come on guys, its a simple logic............ He is using all his money power and political connections to delay the matter so that he gets maximum time to loot abdes which he may not get once he loses the case. Don't you see how frantically he jumps from one city to another, he is hardly there where the seat of dawat is.

[MMH]

Come on guys, its a simple logic............ He is using all his money power and political connections to delay the matter so that he gets maximum time to loot abdes which he may not get once he loses the case. Don't you see how frantically he jumps from one city to another, he is hardly there where the seat of dawat is.

Hello gm bhai...long time

If he has political power then he is likely to win the case...considering how the legal system works in India?

In dxb people are feeling a spiritual awakening like never before so I guess their faith in him is increasing multifold....and I think its happening in all those places he is going to...

[ghulam muhammed]

If he has political power then he is likely to win the case...considering how the legal system works in India?

I agree with you to some extent on this, I say 'to some extent' because we have seen even the high and mighty like ministers and Asaram Bapus having a following of millions going to jail. Hence there is some ray of hope in the judiciary.

In dxb people are feeling a spiritual awakening like never before so I guess their faith in him is increasing multifold....and I think its happening in all those places he is going to...

Its not "Spiritual" that you are seeing but a "herd mentality" which is mostly imposed on the followers by way of scanning ejamat cards and the various farmans wherein they are forced to follow him like how the rats followed the pied piper. And you know what ultimately happened to those rats !!

[confusedaboutnass]

Yesterday in Dubai waaz MS said that anger is a sign that shaitan is using you. Ironic, given that MS is always angry in waaz.

He repeated his usual bayan about how going to court is bad, but this time added something new, that it is a habit of lawyers to keep on prolonging matters to line their pockets, and his farmaan to all mumin lawyers was that they should stop this habit and handle all matters expeditiously, whether they are relating to mumineen or to others. He again repated that lawyers must swiftly handle cases so that they do not drag on for years and years.

Let's see if he follows his own farmaan in the handling of the legal battle in Mumbai.

[khokawala]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/53rd_Syed ... odi_Bohra)

Please update all the news in above wiki

[anajmi]

Consider this, half the bohras are cursing SMS and the remaining half are cursing SKQ. (And please, I would love to see some idiot SMS abde tell me about the numbers cause I will throw the Imam Hussain and his numbers cliche in his face. I am being generous when I say half and half.)

This is the return that SMB gets for his deeds. His brother gets cursed by one half of his followers and his son gets cursed by the other half. As they say, Allah ke ghar der hai andher nahin!!

[haqniwaat]

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder what the point is to even have these court cases. If we cannot see the proof of what either side is saying i.e. nass retraction and what not, then there is nothing this case is going to bring to fruition because the mufaddalis have won in all aspects. People are getting settled to the idea that mufaddal bs is the dai and even going as far as saying that they don't care about the outcome of the case because they know that what and whom they believe is correct.

[Biradar]

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder what the point is to even have these court cases. If we cannot see the proof of what either side is saying i.e. nass retraction and what not, then there is nothing this case is going to bring to fruition because the mufaddalis have won in all aspects. People are getting settled to the idea that mufaddal bs is the dai and even going as far as saying that they don't care about the outcome of the case because they know that what and whom they believe is correct.

haqniwaat: I think you are very naive. People made up their mind long ago. The outcome of this court case is totally irrelevant. At this point, people who follow Muffi will keep going, independent of what the court case outcome is. People get comfortable with their lives, and no one wants to rock the boat. Who wants to stop going to jamaans and other functions? So, don't be depressed and dejected. This court case is just more drama, without any end in sight, and with an outcome that will change nothing.

[seeker110]

The outcome will not change anything in the lives of common bhoras.

Aasman sey gira, khajoor mei atka.

[SBM]

Biradar
You are right in some aspects but remember whoever controls Saify Mahal and Badri Mahal controls the masses. This court case is about the control of Saify and Badri Mahal and not about the spirituality of the masses since their spirituality was crushed long time ago by making them zombies. Abdes/Amtes are attached to the notion of Saify-Badri Mahal as well as all the Mazaars, One reason I think Abde BS (son SKQ) moved to Saify Mahal after such a long hiatus is to prove the point to the Court that his primary residence is Saify Mahal.
May be I am wrong but this whole charade is about MONEY MORE MONEY AND MONEY....and I am sure we will see more Zahir/Batin debate will come out of this. If this case drags on, many on the fringe specially educated and more open minded will leave the fold and either become Sunni or Ithna Ashri or may be like me become SUSHI ( a combination of Sunni and Shia fold--get the best teachings from both sides and leave the evil teaching for others).SMS Die hard will continue giving the money to the Yazidi life style of SMS and his goons and will whine and complain. SKQ and his clan will be happy if they will get a small pie of the Loot and a small following like Alavi and Sulemani Bohras and will continue with a new schism.
Who knows if there is not another break up in SMS clan like Malik UL CHUSTER or Qaid CHOR who seems like to be absent from the latest flurry and others like Idris et al are becoming more visible.

[adna_mumin]

The header picture on this blog speaks volumes. There is a paper that the Doctor is seen taking away from Syedna Burhanuddin RA.

Not really. Need a video for concluding action or movement. this is just a snap shot.

There was definitely movement - watch the video on the same blog. Latest post has it...

[haqniwaat]

This video has had little impact because it is too late. When the Titanic sank, there were a mere two hours for the survivors in the cold water to be able to withstand. By the time the rescue ship arrived, even though the majority of the survivors in the water were afloat, they had froze to death. This campaign should be about winning hearts and minds, not winning a case whose outcome will be useless to those who are frozen in mufaddal bs' raj.

[alam]

So what does the video really mean - okay, proven that dr. Moiz translated words and reported different from what maula supposedly said. A person suffering from stroke may have impaired speech, and said mohammed instead of Mufaddal. That's about all that can be granted, in favor of MS side. The video itself is clipped, with sound effects, etc, and other extraneous information, background music, photos, etc. was that necessary?. Seriously, SKQ camp, or SKQ supporters or whoever you are producing this, tell me, how can this not be viewed as propaganda from SKQ side?

I am more interested now in re- hearing the video/audio exactly as was shown to the jamaats worldwide, which is now famously called the Cromwell video. People were asked to not record it. Why? We have right to hear it again. As we have a right to hear the exact recordings of raudat Tahera. Unedited, unclipped versions.. No photoshopped. No movie made out of it. Just simple. End of story. Let the raw data and unfiltered evidence emerge. Let people do their own interpretation and photoshopping in their minds and hearts.

If someone has raw audio/video, without the movie editing by SMS or SKQ, then THAT would be interesting. At least to some of us who don't have to be spoon fed. Let the public be the court, judge and jury,

[Ozdundee]

What is the outcome for reformist depending on court outcome

if Smb had done a legitimate Nass on Sms , do we care based on his recent performance

If Smb did Nass on Skq , will he change the issues or we are hopeful he will engage with reforms? How certain are you

What is not clear what is in it for the commoners once the case is over

Once sms does not feel he has a competitor will he change for the worse

[qutub_mamajiwala]

i think all people are missing one important point.
MS and KQ people are busy proving each other right and wrong.
but what is the root of this problem?
why did this happend in first place?
who is to blame for this?
first let us forget KQ altogether.
believe that smb did nass on ms.
now the thing is first he did it in private to reveal after his death. pray why? what was the need to do in private in first place? there was no political opression or genuine and valid reason for hiding it. some will say it is hikmat.
ok agreed it may be hikmat which we mortal will not understand.
then why did he make it public then, if it was to be private?
now the twist--he made it public when his speech got impaired--fantastic
he was gaib na jaankar--did he not know when will his speech will get impaired?
if he had to do public nass atleast he should do when everybody would hear him clearly--so there will be not an iota of doubt. but he chose the timing in such a way that nobody would understand him and create confusion in peoples mind. did he not comprehend that what would be effect of such public nass when not done clearly?
after all he was gaib na jaankar.
the conclusion is he is solely responsible for creating this mayhem.
as a head of the community it was his duty to prevent it, and he failed in it terribly.
and he had ample time for that--50 yrs is not small time.

[Biradar]

….
first let us forget KQ altogether.
believe that smb did nass on ms.
….
the conclusion is he is solely responsible for creating this mayhem.
as a head of the community it was his duty to prevent it, and he failed in it terribly.
and he had ample time for that--50 yrs is not small time.

Your conclusion is almost correct. It is possible that once SMB did the nass on SKQ 50 years ago (and there is no doubt he did it), he never felt it necessary to make it public. A terrible failure in judgment, to be sure. The fact that he remained silent on this issue is another huge stain on his legacy. Of course, DMMS is making hay, taking Bohra back to the stone age. SMB could not control his kids and his brothers during his lifetime. How can we expect these infernal demons to exercise restraint now that he has passed away? So yes, it appears that he failed in his prime duty terribly. One may somewhat excuse him, perhaps, if he was unable to stop his children and brothers due to some pressures which we do not yet know about. Time will tell, but the damage is done.

[Biradar]

Incidentally: if SMB really did appoint DMMS as his successor (something which one can not 100% discount), then that probably is the worst part of his legacy. I mean, even an idiot can see that DMMS is totally unsuited to be the da'i.

[kimanumanu]

I am more interested now in re- hearing the video/audio exactly as was shown to the jamaats worldwide, which is now famously called the Cromwell video. People were asked to not record it. Why? We have right to hear it again. As we have a right to hear the exact recordings of raudat Tahera. Unedited, unclipped versions.. No photoshopped. No movie made out of it. Just simple. End of story. Let the raw data and unfiltered evidence emerge. Let people do their own interpretation and photoshopping in their minds and hearts.

If someone has raw audio/video, without the movie editing by SMS or SKQ, then THAT would be interesting. At least to some of us who don't have to be spoon fed. Let the public be the court, judge and jury,

You can start by viewing this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10277

[ghulam muhammed]

i think all people are missing one important point.
MS and KQ people are busy proving each other right and wrong.
but what is the root of this problem?
why did this happend in first place?
who is to blame for this?
first let us forget KQ altogether.
believe that smb did nass on ms.
now the thing is first he did it in private to reveal after his death. pray why? what was the need to do in private in first place? there was no political opression or genuine and valid reason for hiding it. some will say it is hikmat.
ok agreed it may be hikmat which we mortal will not understand.
then why did he make it public then, if it was to be private?
now the twist--he made it public when his speech got impaired--fantastic
he was gaib na jaankar--did he not know when will his speech will get impaired?
if he had to do public nass atleast he should do when everybody would hear him clearly--so there will be not an iota of doubt. but he chose the timing in such a way that nobody would understand him and create confusion in peoples mind. did he not comprehend that what would be effect of such public nass when not done clearly?
after all he was gaib na jaankar.
the conclusion is he is solely responsible for creating this mayhem.
as a head of the community it was his duty to prevent it, and he failed in it terribly.
and he had ample time for that--50 yrs is not small time.

The bottom line is that he was NOT a "Ghaib na jaankar", Period !!

[Critical_Thinker]

Come on guys, its a simple logic............ He is using all his money power and political connections to delay the matter so that he gets maximum time to loot abdes which he may not get once he loses the case. Don't you see how frantically he jumps from one city to another, he is hardly there where the seat of dawat is.

If SMS can use his money and political connections to delay the court case.
Then he can also use these things to win the court case.
So why do you say 'once he loses the case'?

We all know that SMB used to travel all over the world too.
And Im sure SKQ will do the same when his jamaat is established.

[Critical_Thinker]

Consider this, half the bohras are cursing SMS and the remaining half are cursing SKQ. (And please, I would love to see some idiot SMS abde tell me about the numbers cause I will throw the Imam Hussain and his numbers cliche in his face. I am being generous when I say half and half.)

This is the return that SMB gets for his deeds. His brother gets cursed by one half of his followers and his son gets cursed by the other half. As they say, Allah ke ghar der hai andher nahin!!

You could say the same about the whole world.
Sunnis have a dispute with shias etc.
Hindus have a dispute with muslims etc.
Jews have a dispute with christians etc.

Does this mean you are saying that 'this is the return allah has for his deeds'?

[Critical_Thinker]

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder what the point is to even have these court cases. If we cannot see the proof of what either side is saying i.e. nass retraction and what not, then there is nothing this case is going to bring to fruition because the mufaddalis have won in all aspects. People are getting settled to the idea that mufaddal bs is the dai and even going as far as saying that they don't care about the outcome of the case because they know that what and whom they believe is correct.

In my opinion, more and more people are beginning to question SMS as time goes by.
He has a habit of doing and saying things which raise eyebrows.

I think nobody will care if SKQ loses the court case as this is what they expect.
However if he wins then it will cause quite a lot of uproar.
Especially as this will give SKQ control of the bohra properties.
I wonder if SMS followers will boycott the masjids and start building new ones in the name of SMS.
Or will they carry on as normal as they are more interested in sitting on the thaal and eating jaman.

[Critical_Thinker]

Biradar
You are right in some aspects but remember whoever controls Saify Mahal and Badri Mahal controls the masses. This court case is about the control of Saify and Badri Mahal and not about the spirituality of the masses since their spirituality was crushed long time ago by making them zombies. Abdes/Amtes are attached to the notion of Saify-Badri Mahal as well as all the Mazaars, One reason I think Abde BS (son SKQ) moved to Saify Mahal after such a long hiatus is to prove the point to the Court that his primary residence is Saify Mahal.
May be I am wrong but this whole charade is about MONEY MORE MONEY AND MONEY....and I am sure we will see more Zahir/Batin debate will come out of this. If this case drags on, many on the fringe specially educated and more open minded will leave the fold and either become Sunni or Ithna Ashri or may be like me become SUSHI ( a combination of Sunni and Shia fold--get the best teachings from both sides and leave the evil teaching for others).SMS Die hard will continue giving the money to the Yazidi life style of SMS and his goons and will whine and complain. SKQ and his clan will be happy if they will get a small pie of the Loot and a small following like Alavi and Sulemani Bohras and will continue with a new schism.
Who knows if there is not another break up in SMS clan like Malik UL CHUSTER or Qaid CHOR who seems like to be absent from the latest flurry and others like Idris et al are becoming more visible.

If you think 'whoever controls Saify Mahal and Badri Mahal controls the masses'.
Then if the court case is a success, the whole community will become SKQ followers.
We all know that wont happen, so you are being very foolish.

An atheist like fayaaz bhai would say any and all religious people are zombies.
What makes you think you are not a zombie.

Very few people will leave the bohra community, no matter how long the case drags on.

Do SUSHIs believe ali was the 1st or the 4th.
How big is the SUSHI community worldwide.
Do you have a SUSHI masjid that you go to regularly.

[Critical_Thinker]

What is the outcome for reformist depending on court outcome

if Smb had done a legitimate Nass on Sms , do we care based on his recent performance

If Smb did Nass on Skq , will he change the issues or we are hopeful he will engage with reforms? How certain are you

What is not clear what is in it for the commoners once the case is over

Once sms does not feel he has a competitor will he change for the worse

No matter what happens, I cannot see this being resolved amicably.
I would guess SMS has a permanent competitor in SKQ now.

[Critical_Thinker]

….
first let us forget KQ altogether.
believe that smb did nass on ms.
….
the conclusion is he is solely responsible for creating this mayhem.
as a head of the community it was his duty to prevent it, and he failed in it terribly.
and he had ample time for that--50 yrs is not small time.

Your conclusion is almost correct. It is possible that once SMB did the nass on SKQ 50 years ago (and there is no doubt he did it), he never felt it necessary to make it public. A terrible failure in judgment, to be sure. The fact that he remained silent on this issue is another huge stain on his legacy. Of course, DMMS is making hay, taking Bohra back to the stone age. SMB could not control his kids and his brothers during his lifetime. How can we expect these infernal demons to exercise restraint now that he has passed away? So yes, it appears that he failed in his prime duty terribly. One may somewhat excuse him, perhaps, if he was unable to stop his children and brothers due to some pressures which we do not yet know about. Time will tell, but the damage is done.

Imam ali was usurped just like SKQ.
Would you say that the prophet 'failed in his prime duty' too.
Or would you put the blame on the usurpers.

In the same sense, do you still blame SMB for what has happened or do you blame SMS.

[anajmi]

Another completely irrelevant and insignificant post. After so many posts, I assume there would be something of significance or relevance, but there is nothing.

[zinger]

Another completely irrelevant and insignificant post. After so many posts, I assume there would be something of significance or relevance, but there is nothing.

your life, my good friend, is irrelevant and insignificant, as is mine and everyone elses on this forum. so please, by all means, continue to stay her and make irrelevant and insignificant posts all you like,

[zinger]

Biradar
You are right in some aspects but remember whoever controls Saify Mahal and Badri Mahal controls the masses. This court case is about the control of Saify and Badri Mahal and not about the spirituality of the masses since their spirituality was crushed long time ago by making them zombies. Abdes/Amtes are attached to the notion of Saify-Badri Mahal as well as all the Mazaars, One reason I think Abde BS (son SKQ) moved to Saify Mahal after such a long hiatus is to prove the point to the Court that his primary residence is Saify Mahal.
May be I am wrong but this whole charade is about MONEY MORE MONEY AND MONEY....and I am sure we will see more Zahir/Batin debate will come out of this. If this case drags on, many on the fringe specially educated and more open minded will leave the fold and either become Sunni or Ithna Ashri or may be like me become SUSHI ( a combination of Sunni and Shia fold--get the best teachings from both sides and leave the evil teaching for others).SMS Die hard will continue giving the money to the Yazidi life style of SMS and his goons and will whine and complain. SKQ and his clan will be happy if they will get a small pie of the Loot and a small following like Alavi and Sulemani Bohras and will continue with a new schism.
Who knows if there is not another break up in SMS clan like Malik UL CHUSTER or Qaid CHOR who seems like to be absent from the latest flurry and others like Idris et al are becoming more visible.

If you think 'whoever controls Saify Mahal and Badri Mahal controls the masses'.
Then if the court case is a success, the whole community will become SKQ followers.
We all know that wont happen, so you are being very foolish.

An atheist like fayaaz bhai would say any and all religious people are zombies.
What makes you think you are not a zombie.

Very few people will leave the bohra community, no matter how long the case drags on.

Do SUSHIs believe ali was the 1st or the 4th.
How big is the SUSHI community worldwide.
Do you have a SUSHI masjid that you go to regularly.

dont know how i missed this in the earlier post, but i like what SBM is proposing of turning into a SUSHI.

i think you misunderstood him. sushi, as he is referring to, is an attitude, a bent of mind if you prefer. i like the concept of combining the best of both sects and living life too...

so we follow the sunnah of the Prophet SAW, and at the same time, believe in the theology of Shiaism too... interesting... im beginning to like it.

So in that case CT, your questions dont have an answer, its not a sect, its a religious choice and i for one would like to endorse it

[kimanumanu]

Can we call it SHISU - otherwise I keep thinking of a Japanese chef

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26477243