Disconnected Ismaili History - for those who seek knowledge

[lawgraduate]

Imam Hassan transferred his Imammat to Imam Hussain(s) matter is closed. it is well documented in many books, both were haq naa Imam.

How above point proves Hz. Musa Kazim succeeded Imam Ismail a.s. or if Hz. Musa Kazim is rightful Imam?

I have no issue who suceeded Imam jafar, because one of them was real Imam, now my concern is who is present leader and Imam? since you have so much faith in Imam Ismail, who is your present leader or Imam?

[lawgraduate]

Chalo ek baar mein tumhari baat maan leta hu ki ismail was Imam, so now who is Imam e zamana?

if imam is not present and in purdah who is in his seat? whom do you believe at this moment as a leader?

Allah's appointed son's in the progeny of Imam Ismail a.s. is the current era Imam-uz-zaman.

Imam seat can be occupied only by an Imam and not by anyone else. The knowledge rightful Fatimi Ismaili Imam's have left among us is the leader at the moment.

so finally you are agreeing knowledge is Imam of time am I correct?

if this is correct than we have to agree what Muhammed(s) said in his last sermon, he said I am leaving Quran and my sunnah (knowledge) and who ever stick with it will go to jannah.

[JavedhJuma]

Low-Graduate,

Instead of asking the bohoras, please Tell us who is your Imam and where is he and why? When will he come back to lead you and how old is he.

If anybody has no knowledge it is you. I proved to you from one of your own, Imam Ismail AS was the rightful Imam. Your Sheikh, before he died, sent me four parts. I have only posted one to prove one point. If I post the other three, then you will be totally "nanga" but I am not here to prove anybody' s religion right or wrong. This is against the teaching of my faith but I will definitely post stuff if I am challenged or my faith is challenged. You better go "into pardah now".

[lawgraduate]

Low-Graduate,

Instead of asking the bohoras, please Tell us who is your Imam and where is he and why? When will he come back to lead you and how old is he.

If anybody has no knowledge it is you. I proved to you from one of your own, Imam Ismail AS was the rightful Imam. Your Sheikh, before he died, sent me four parts. I have only posted one to prove one point. If I post the other three, then you will be totally "nanga" but I am not here to prove anybody' s religion right or wrong. This is against the teaching of my faith but I will definitely post stuff if I am challenged or my faith is challenged. You better go "into pardah now".

bhai tu kyu apni maa bhen ek karwane pe tula hain?

agar subject par kuch bol sakta hain to bol warna jo ilm rakhta hain use bolne de.....chal ab hawa aane de aur Munira ko jawab dene de..mere username ko low yaa high kehne se kuch nahi honga, agar dalil hain to laa, warna apna mu kala kar aur bhaag.

[JavedhJuma]

since ismaili boot lickers are trying to post out of subject post, I wont reply any thing but to those who are posting to subject, I request Admin to delete out of subject post so that real face of these ismailis can be brought out in light. dont even have a dalil to save their faith and they call troll to others? munira I am waiting for your reply

Ismailis are not posting out of subject, you have no answer and hence the accusations. We are not in hiding, our faces are in full view so stop writing nonsense to Admin. Now, please respond to what your Sheikh has said because he is the one who has proved your beliefs wrong. If you can't respond to the Sheikh, then go join your imam in the cave of Samara.

For once I am glad Admin has not closed the thread because your black faces are being exposed. Now go and adopt a new ID and come back after you have absorbed your Sheikh's message. But remember every time you come as another idiot you will meet us all over again.

Why don't you people believe in what you believe and leave the rest to theirs? We have enough fitnas in Islam and all because of Jahaliat. You do not seem satisfied with your belief and hence all this nuisance. Go do some soul searching and while you are at it read Sura 104 and mind your own business.

[lawgraduate]

since ismaili boot lickers are trying to post out of subject post, I wont reply any thing but to those who are posting to subject, I request Admin to delete out of subject post so that real face of these ismailis can be brought out in light. dont even have a dalil to save their faith and they call troll to others? munira I am waiting for your reply

Ismailis are not posting out of subject, you have no answer and hence the accusations. We are not in hiding, our faces are in full view so stop writing nonsense to Admin. Now, please respond to what your Sheikh has said because he is the one who has proved your beliefs wrong. If you can't respond to the Sheikh, then go join your imam in the cave of Samara.

For once I am glad Admin has not closed the thread because your black faces are being exposed. Now go and adopt a new ID and come back after you have absorbed your Sheikh's message. But remember every time you come as another idiot you will meet us all over again.

Why don't you people believe in what you believe and leave the rest to theirs? We have enough fitnas in Islam and all because of Jahaliat. You do not seem satisfied with your belief and hence all this nuisance. Go do some soul searching and while you are at it read Sura 104 and mind your own business.

agar Muhammed(s) bhi apna business mind karke baith jaate to Islam duniya mein kabhi aam nahi hota, ab tujhe mushrik rehna hain to reh, lekin jo ilmi baat karnaa chahta hain use karne de, tu apne agha khan ki puja mein laga hain to laga reh, tujhe koi rok nahi raha.

ab mu band kar aur Munira ko jawab dene de.

[blitzkreig]

Where have I said, "I agree...."? It is Ithna Asheri's book that makes such claims - Ithna's own book contends: Imamat cannot be transferred from Imam Ismail a.s. to his brother Hz. Musa Kazim.

Imam Hassan transferred his Imammat to Imam Hussain(s) matter is closed. it is well documented in many books, both were haq naa Imam.

who is your present rehbar?

Sorry the Ismaili's don't believe that Imam Hassan was an actual Imam. Ismaili have two different seats representing two different positions (Imam and Pir). Although Hazrat Hassan is referred to as Imam Hassan, it's not the same position as Imam Ali or Imam Hussain or other imams that followed.

Edit: Also on the topic of the Imams, we, as nizari ismaili, do not believe that Imam Ismail passed away before Ja'far al-Sadiq. Hence, why we recite the names of all our Imams in our Dua to prove their lineage.

[lawgraduate]

Imam Hassan transferred his Imammat to Imam Hussain(s) matter is closed. it is well documented in many books, both were haq naa Imam.

who is your present rehbar?

Sorry the Ismaili's don't believe that Imam Hassan was an actual Imam. Ismaili have two different seats representing two different positions (Imam and Pir). Although Hazrat Hassan is referred to as Imam Hassan, it's not the same position as Imam Ali or Imam Hussain or other imams that followed.

Edit: Also on the topic of the Imams, we, as nizari ismaili, do not believe that Imam Ismail passed away before Ja'far al-Sadiq. Hence, why we recite the names of all our Imams in our Dua to prove their lineage.

so does it means nizari and ismaili (bohras) has different view on Imam Hassan(A) itself?

[blitzkreig]

Sorry the Ismaili's don't believe that Imam Hassan was an actual Imam. Ismaili have two different seats representing two different positions (Imam and Pir). Although Hazrat Hassan is referred to as Imam Hassan, it's not the same position as Imam Ali or Imam Hussain or other imams that followed.

Edit: Also on the topic of the Imams, we, as nizari ismaili, do not believe that Imam Ismail passed away before Ja'far al-Sadiq. Hence, why we recite the names of all our Imams in our Dua to prove their lineage.

so does it means nizari and ismaili (bohras) has different view on Imam Hassan(A) itself?

I believe so. If they believe that Imam Hassan holds the same position as Imam Ali or Imam Hussain, then yes, our understanding is different.

[Munira_RV]

As per Dawoodi Bohras doctrines Imam Hasan is Mustoda Imam i.e. under the authority of his younger sibling Imam Hussain a.s. who is Mustaqar Imam.

Both Mola Ali a.s. and Imam Hussain a.s. are Mustaqar Imam - so in the chain of Mustaqar Imamat the baton passed from Ali to Hussain.

Mustoda Imam, Dai Balagh, Dai Jazeera, Dai Mutlaq, Hujjat - they all are servants of Mustaqar Imam of time. They are appointed or removed per the discretion of Mustaqar Imam of time.

[onlyprivate]

@munira, wow now as per Bohra books, imam hasan is not mustaqar imam ?????? meas he was servant of Imam hussain during his imamt !!!!!!!!!!!
by the way, which dai r u believing at present ? KQ or MS or Alavi or sulaimani !!!!!!!
please also mention basis of ur selection.

[lawgraduate]

this is getting more interesting, I knew bohras are clueless about imamat, but I didnt know their aqeeda is this weird.

[lawgraduate]

kq and ms are fighting for dai ship but amazingly whole of their Imamat concept is not clear infact bit silly and weird.
bohras need serious thinking of their faith.

[blitzkreig]

kq and ms are fighting for dai ship but amazingly whole of their Imamat concept is not clear infact bit silly and weird.
bohras need serious thinking of their faith.

I'm can't speak for the Bohra in terms of their beliefs between two positions. But for us nizari Ismaili, the concept of Imamat is clear. There is clear distinction between the Imam (Mustaqar Imam as Munira called it) and Pir (Mustoda Imam as Munira called it). I'm from South asian background, so we generally refer to the two positions as Imam and Pir. I know other people from central asian or middle east background call them differently. Either way, according to our doctrines the Imam is sole head of the faith. The Pir is Imam's right hand person. The Pir is responsible for dawat and spread of the faith along with other duties. Furthermore, the Pir is always from the Imam's family. Historically, the Pir has been Imam's brother or son. Also many of our Imams were Pirs while their father were the Imams, and become the Imam after their father (the previous Imam) passed away. I'm not sure if this is the case with Bohras, but in our doctrines, the Imam can hold both positions at the same time. Anyways, what I have explained is just a small portion of the position of the Imamat and the Piratan. It's tough to explain it all, especially since there is a significant spiritual side to both positions.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro blitzkreig'

Is Karim Agha Khan an Imam or a Pir ? If he is not the Pir then who is the Pir of your sect ?

[blitzkreig]

Bro blitzkreig'

Is Karim Agha Khan an Imam or a Pir ? If he is not the Pir then who is the Pir of your sect ?

As I mentioned in my previous post, Karim Aga Khan holds both positions.

[JavedhJuma]

Ismailis are not posting out of subject, you have no answer and hence the accusations. We are not in hiding, our faces are in full view so stop writing nonsense to Admin. Now, please respond to what your Sheikh has said because he is the one who has proved your beliefs wrong. If you can't respond to the Sheikh, then go join your imam in the cave of Samara.

For once I am glad Admin has not closed the thread because your black faces are being exposed. Now go and adopt a new ID and come back after you have absorbed your Sheikh's message. But remember every time you come as another idiot you will meet us all over again.

Why don't you people believe in what you believe and leave the rest to theirs? We have enough fitnas in Islam and all because of Jahaliat. You do not seem satisfied with your belief and hence all this nuisance. Go do some soul searching and while you are at it read Sura 104 and mind your own business.

agar Muhammed(s) bhi apna business mind karke baith jaate to Islam duniya mein kabhi aam nahi hota, ab tujhe mushrik rehna hain to reh, lekin jo ilmi baat karnaa chahta hain use karne de, tu apne agha khan ki puja mein laga hain to laga reh, tujhe koi rok nahi raha.

ab mu band kar aur Munira ko jawab dene de.

Rasool SAW was commanded by God to guide. Who commanded you to guide. Fool you are not Prophet. Now respond to what your Sheikh said. While you are waiting for Munira's reply, tell me who is your Hazar Imam: You don't even know that.

The more I think of you the more I feel that you are a lost SOUL. You probably left Bohoraism (I see the way you are criticising them in other threads) went to join Ithnas and hence the fitnas against Ismailis. Go burn.

Shame Illahi ko buja sakta hai kon. No LOW, no low life like you. Keep barking.

[lawgraduate]

Bro blitzkreig'

Is Karim Agha Khan an Imam or a Pir ? If he is not the Pir then who is the Pir of your sect ?

As I mentioned in my previous post, Karim Aga Khan holds both positions.

He holds trio positions

Imam
pir and
play boy

but anyways since you are a good person I make dua for your hidaya AMEEN

[JavedhJuma]

Imam Hassan transferred his Imammat to Imam Hussain(s) matter is closed. it is well documented in many books, both were haq naa Imam.

who is your present rehbar?

Sorry the Ismaili's don't believe that Imam Hassan was an actual Imam. Ismaili have two different seats representing two different positions (Imam and Pir). Although Hazrat Hassan is referred to as Imam Hassan, it's not the same position as Imam Ali or Imam Hussain or other imams that followed.

Edit: Also on the topic of the Imams, we, as nizari ismaili, do not believe that Imam Ismail passed away before Ja'far al-Sadiq. Hence, why we recite the names of all our Imams in our Dua to prove their lineage.

Imam Ismail AS did not die, he went to Syria. His tomb is there. Want to see picture proof?

[JavedhJuma]

As I mentioned in my previous post, Karim Aga Khan holds both positions.

He holds trio positions

Imam
pir and
play boy

but anyways since you are a good person I make dua for your hidaya AMEEN

He is Pir and Imam. Period. The rest is your burning Ass. And your dua of hidaya for blitzkreig cannot be heard by the man in Samara's cave. Allah SWT does not bother with filth like you. No wonder you are a bhatkata kutra na gar ka, na gat ka.

I have some Ithna friends who are far better than you. One of them even told me that this Low sounds like dog shit. This from one of your own.

[blitzkreig]

As I mentioned in my previous post, Karim Aga Khan holds both positions.

He holds trio positions

Imam
pir and
play boy

but anyways since you are a good person I make dua for your hidaya AMEEN

Haha, I agree with the first two points, but not the last. Everyone has their own opinion so to each his own. During my life as a Nizari Ismaili, I have learned more than I would have being in any other religion or faith. It's quite shocking to see some of the comments from other muslims, and sometimes I wonder what happened to teachings of the prophet. But I guess times change, and so do the people.

[lawgraduate]

He holds trio positions

Imam
pir and
play boy

but anyways since you are a good person I make dua for your hidaya AMEEN

Haha, I agree with the first two points, but not the last. Everyone has their own opinion so to each his own. During my life as a Nizari Ismaili, I have learned more than I would have being in any other religion or faith. It's quite shocking to see some of the comments from other muslims, and sometimes I wonder what happened to teachings of the prophet. But I guess times change, and so do the people.

Thats because you may be looking into wrong sources. learn from Authorized Shia or Sunni scholars and books, Ismaili Imam himself is not educated in Arabic language and can't read namaz, when he goes to meet some Muslim scholar he prefers to read behind and no this is not because to give respect but because he is afraid of getting caught if he reads Arabic, but anyways since you are in learning mode, may be if ALLAH will wish you will come to true path of ISLAM.

[JavedhJuma]

You are truly Jahil,

In 1976 my beloved Imam Chaired Seerat Conference in Karachi. Muslims around the world chose him to be the Chairman of the Conference. So who was seating in that Chair? Was he sitting behind anybody or others were?

And now you are telling me when he goes to meet some Muslim scholar he stands behind him.... (first of all he does not go to meet any Muslim scholar because he has no need, a Muslim scholar comes to him).

What authorized Shia or Sunni scholars you are talking about? First of all, how many books have you read? Tell me which Muslim scholar behind whom my Imam is standing!

Yes, Munira is right. Imam Ali AS was the first Imam and he held two positions, i.e. He was a Shia Imam and also a Calipha of the Ummah.

Upon his death, history will show you that Hazarat Hasan succeeded Imam Ali AS as a Calipha (and Mustawada Imam of the Shias) and Imam Hussein AS succeeded him as Imam of the Shias (Mustakar Imam).

Only Ithnas believe Hazarat Hasan was the second Imam so they can prove their point that Imamat can go from brother to brother and Hence Imamat went to Musa Kazim when Imam Ismail AS passed away. Nice try. The truth is in front of you.

Your thousands of years Imam is hiding in the cave of Samara and Imam Ismail's progeny is present in the world.

Light upon Light, Allah guides to his Light whom he pleases! He is not pleased with fitnatis like you.

Now read this if you can read. This is written by an exceptional scholar and not a 10th grader like Maherally:

http://simerg.com/literary-readings/thr ... mic-ummah/

Now should we listen to your bakwas and those "angutha chap" scholars whom only you can read?

We are on the right path, we do not need a jahil's wishes for Allah SWT to guide us. He guides us day in and day out. Just pray that Allah SWT guides you or at least shuts you up in order to save your soul.

Proud to be a Nizari Ismaili Muslim!

[KA786110]

Its amazes me to no end when people who have no understanding of their own faith, start slinging mud on other people and their faith.

Law Grad is truly an instrument of Iblis. May Allah save us from Iblis in all its forms.

[JavedhJuma]

KA78611O

Low is the lowest of the low. He has disappeared. He has been asking everybody who is "your Imam". I asked who is his? No answer.

Anyway, looks like he has nothing better to do. No job. He sits in front of the computer 24/7 and denigrades bohoras although he has joined Ithnas. At least he has vanished from this thread. Make no mistake, he will come back with another id when his Mulla teaches him something new.

He came here with promoting Ithnas version of Imamat. He failed. Ithnas have been doing so since the split. I do not care, but he has the audacity to come to the bohora forum and abuse the bohoras and Ismailis. You can see him on every thread posting several times a day. Looks like he has nothing better to do.

[KA786110]

So true. When people have fickle IMAAN on their own Tariqah they look to attack other Tariqahs to simply fuel the fire of hatred, jealousy and ignorance in their own heart. And they wonder why their hearts have no rest and peace even after performing so many rituals in a mechanical way.

[salim]

He holds trio positions

Imam
pir and
play boy

but anyways since you are a good person I make dua for your hidaya AMEEN

This is nothing new, non-believers have been calling our prophets, caliphs, Imams as play boys. It started right from Adam, Adam forcing his wife for a particular sex position, Eve's sexual desire and extra marital affair and it continued, here is a very small glimpse

• Davids extramarital affair with BathSheba
  Mosses rapping a 3 year old
  Jesus lusting for Mary Magdalene, and committing adulatory by kissing her the wrong way
  Muhammad marrying 7 or more wives including a six year old and including wife of his son
  How 2nd rightly guided caliph Umar and our first Imam Ali agreed for a marriage between Alis daughter who was around 10 years old and Umar who was around 60.
  Imam Hassan had 15 sons and 9 daughters from six wives and three named concubines. His wife poisoned him, so that she can marry her dream man.

You can say whatever you want, you can force us, kill us but we are not going to leave our prophets and Imams.

[JavedhJuma]

Araz and Lowgrad,

Watch this link and start barking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzZBEUfDStA

Is this ayashi? If this is not Islam what is? He employs 80,000 people which means 80,000 people multiply by 4 for a family of four (sometimes there are even more family members), he feeds and clothes 240,000 people. Show me the richest man, a Muslim man (likes of Saudi King, Jordanian King, Emirs of Qatar, Oman, UAE, etc) doing this work. Show me what your leaders are doing at least! Islam is not just bobbing up and down five times a day. There is more to Islam. Libel and slander is not part of it.

Before you open your filthy mouths think, you Jahils and do not display your ignorance.

Do not abuse my Imam, think before you utter your filth. You are not Muslims, you are kafiruns who told the Prophet "We believe" but hated the Prophet, they were no Muslims and you are pretending to be Muslims but hate the Prophet's progeny. No difference between you and them.

Why don't you just pray five times a day, etc. and keep your mouths shut and leave Allah SWT to do the rest.

[JavedhJuma]

He holds trio positions

Imam
pir and
play boy

but anyways since you are a good person I make dua for your hidaya AMEEN

This is nothing new, non-believers have been calling our prophets, caliphs, Imams as play boys. It started right from Adam, Adam forcing his wife for a particular sex position, Eve's sexual desire and extra marital affair and it continued, here is a very small glimpse

• Davids extramarital affair with BathSheba
  Mosses rapping a 3 year old
  Jesus lusting for Mary Magdalene, and committing adulatory by kissing her the wrong way
  Muhammad marrying 7 or more wives including a six year old and including wife of his son
  How 2nd rightly guided caliph Umar and our first Imam Ali agreed for a marriage between Alis daughter who was around 10 years old and Umar who was around 60.
  Imam Hassan had 15 sons and 9 daughters from six wives and three named concubines. His wife poisoned him, so that she can marry her dream man.

You can say whatever you want, you can force us, kill us but we are not going to leave our prophets and Imams.

Well said brothers Salim and KA786110. These Jahils think they are Muslims but Allah SWT knows what they are! They do not know history of Islam from Adam to present day. What you wrote, brother Salim, must be news to these two idiots because they know only to generate fitnas against Ismailis. They do not know the history of Islam or Islam itself. Kudos to you, Salim for enlightening these two. This has been presented before but nothing soaks in. I am not surpised, they are brainless.

[salim]

HI Javed,

This is nothing new, people have been bad mouthing about our prophets and Imams from long long time. Just because they are feeling jealous we not going to quit Islam.

What they are doing to Aga Khan is very similar to what their kind did to prophet Muhammad. If you look up the history, like Aga Khan, Muhammad was/is called playboy as well. And it is not just Muhammad and and Ali who got bad mouthed, every prophet and Imam were the target.

Actually PBS has very good documentary that shows how some people use to use Muhammad's wives to point finger at prophet Muhammad's deeds. They made a big deal of prophet Muhammad's marriage to Bibi Aysha and prophet Muhammad's marriage to his sons wife.

Most of the time, people do this with a extreme jealous. This is an age old tradition.

They were not successful then and they are not successful now. They will not be able to stop us from helping others and growing.