Discussion: Saifee Mahal Thread - Inside Stories

[haqniwaat]

Haqniwaat Bhai
Is it true that aamils of the local jamaats are asked to collect fixed amount of Wajebaats and do they get commission based on the collection.
Also can you tell us if it is true that most of the people working in Saify Mahal like accountants, drivers, guards are NOT mumineen and Qasr e aali purposely do not hire Mumineen/Muminaat

(1) They do not get a commission.
(2) Yes, they are not mumineen. Most are Bihari Muslims. Their living quarters are not the best and I would not recommend them for mumineen.

[haqniwaat]

Dr. Idris bs Zainuddin married to Shere Banu bs (daughter of STS) and they have been in London for decades.

Is he the same Dr. Idris who had fatally knocked down someone in London when he was driving in a drunken state ? It is said that Kothar had spent crores to get him out of jail.

He was not drunk. Yes, he's the one.

[haqniwaat]

Dear Haqniwaat,
I have some questions for you for us normal ppl to understand what goes on in the saifee mahal
1. Death of Yusuf Najmuddin bs. The ordinary mumineen were told he died of big heart attack but this forum revealed that he was murdered by the Egyptian mafia - thrown to his death off a hotel balcony in Cairo. What was the news inside Saifee Mahal when he died? Did they know how he actually died?

Yes, they knew that he actually died and were told it was a heart attack.

2. Ex Mazoon revealed there were 3 failed assassination attempts against him. Do you know when these were and who they were carried out by?

I have no knowledge of this.

3. Is it true that the Saifee Mahal is actually under ex mazoons name - this was left by STS as a gift to him?

Saifee Mahal - the building itself - is a Dawat property. The other two buildings - Al Azhar and Burhani Manzil are privately owned buildings.

4. Are there any brothers or sisters who were close to ex mazoon up until last year when the split occurred, or had all brothers and sisters cut ties with him for many years since East africa incident?

The ties have never been cut completely - there may be some who are still in contact, but not publicly.

[haqniwaat]

It was SMB who started this gold collection, he asked people to donate in waez, might be his sons looked over the collection. This huge quantity of gold cant disappear in thin air. You know about the inner circle and working of the Qasre Burhani so check again please.

I have no information regarding this. Ibrahim bs son of Qaid Johar bs was in charge of this.

as far as i know, Ziyafat money from Syedna is distributed in whole of qasre ali and kothar. each and every one gets an envelop and it can range from 50k to 50rs but every one receives it. Might be old and far off relatives are not given any more or who are not on good terms with SMB sons. but largess is distributed.

Yes, everyone gets an envelope but the amount that goes to Syedna, I do not know what happens with it.

3) Who takes Galla money from different mazars

The Kothar takes care of this, as well. But let me just say that gallas are found in many faiths especially in India, and the faithful tend to not question what happens to the money; that is a part of our faith. Otherwise, why bother putting anything in the galla, right?

Kothar takes cares means what? where does the money go.

I think I answered this question already.

4) How does extended family of STS and SMB fend for themselves if they are not in amalat or are old.

Ha ha. You can count these with three fingers. All three of these families are with SKQ and have jobs/business.

Who are these three families except sons of KQ. how are they related to SMB or STS

Dr. Moiz Mohyuddin in Pennsylvania, his daughter, and Taizoon Shakir.

Might be MS dosent know financial intricacies but such a huge empire cant work without proper financial maintenance. There should be record of receipt and distribution of wealth. If not how will they set the targets for Wajebaat collection.

I have no idea.

6) How much is the estimated wealth of Qasre Ali.

I don't know. Every family is different depending on how well they kept their investments (see my previous post on Ibrahim bs and investing).

Ok. Which is wealthiest of them all.

Your guess is as good as mine.

Might be they are suppose to deposit it back and get a percentage. As you mentioned that nazar al maqaam is deposited back can you confirm what happens to that money.

No, I do not know what happens to it.

[haqniwaat]

One more question
5. We have also heard rumours of a hand-written letter from Taher Saifuddin Maula RA to the mother of ex-Mazun Maula, promising her that he would be made Dai after Burhanuddin Maula RA. does such a letter exist or it an urban legend?

I am not aware of this.

[haqniwaat]

One more question
Make it 6
Why didnt SMB declared KQ as dai when he had time. who was he afraid of. Was his dawat hijacked under his feet?

He did what he did because he was aware of what would have happened had he declared in public during his lifetime. I think those who love SMB will not have issues with this, but those who don't believe in him will. This is - at the end - a matter of faith. I have tried to answer all of your questions to the best of my knowledge. I am not privy to everything - nobody is. Everyone in khidmat also handles certain aspects. So until you can get one of SMB's shehzadas to come on this board and answer your questions, you will not get all of your answers.

[haqniwaat]

make it 7
we have heard in africa KQ distributed cd or paper and took sign of the people claiming he too received faiz of imam.
is this true?
why nothing has been said about this by his side when MS side is throwing allegations of such sorts?

Because it is not true - nobody was told to sign saying that he received faiz of Imam. However, the signatures that were taken were after the wafaat of Burhanuddin Mola RA, by Idris bs in one of his daily meetings. He had everyone in Saifee Mahal sign - on a blank sheet of paper - and he said that these would go to local officials in India.

[zinger]

One more question
5. We have also heard rumours of a hand-written letter from Taher Saifuddin Maula RA to the mother of ex-Mazun Maula, promising her that he would be made Dai after Burhanuddin Maula RA. does such a letter exist or it an urban legend?

I am not aware of this.

i dont think i quite believe you. this was a hot topic of discussion on the day of 18th Jan within thousands of Dawoodi Bohras.

However you have once stated that many articles of proof are reserved for a court of law so perhaps you cannot divulge it, hence will leave it at that.

[asad]

One more question
Make it 6
Why didnt SMB declared KQ as dai when he had time. who was he afraid of. Was his dawat hijacked under his feet?

He did what he did because he was aware of what would have happened had he declared in public during his lifetime. I think those who love SMB will not have issues with this, but those who don't believe in him will. This is - at the end - a matter of faith. I have tried to answer all of your questions to the best of my knowledge. I am not privy to everything - nobody is. Everyone in khidmat also handles certain aspects. So until you can get one of SMB's shehzadas to come on this board and answer your questions, you will not get all of your answers.

HNW,

Thats what i am asking, what was SMB afraid of to happen once he declared SKQ as his successor. Who was he afraid of, who was more powerful than the dai. Most powerful person YN had already died long back than who hold so much sway that the dai was afraid of.

I am afraid even SKQ is meek and docile like SMB in nature. When SKQ didnt do anything when confronted how do we hope he will fight till end. As of now it just looks like a fight for his ego which if in time was placated it would not have come to this situation.

[asad]

HNW,

I am sorry if it sounds as grilling session to you from all of us. but please understand that there has been so much gap between Dai and his followers that anyone who claims to be a representative of people whom they cant even approach leave aside ask question will face these kind of questions.

Kindly ignore the tone of questions and provide as much factual information you can to win some trust which Kotharis and Bohri leaders look to have lost forever.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

make it 7
we have heard in africa KQ distributed cd or paper and took sign of the people claiming he too received faiz of imam.
is this true?
why nothing has been said about this by his side when MS side is throwing allegations of such sorts?

Because it is not true - nobody was told to sign saying that he received faiz of Imam. However, the signatures that were taken were after the wafaat of Burhanuddin Mola RA, by Idris bs in one of his daily meetings. He had everyone in Saifee Mahal sign - on a blank sheet of paper - and he said that these would go to local officials in India.

i clearly remember there was audio relay of SMB of his africa safar during one of the 40 days after his wafat all over the world. i have heard that myself also. in that he says ( i dont remeber exact words ) imam faiz comes to dai only. and thru dai it goes to else. someone claiming otherwise is not on the right path. who is that someone he was refering to?
MS side claims he is KQ.
ur comments plz

[kimanumanu]

This whole split has its roots in this Africa episode. A common man (Hebatullah) stood up against Mazoon of Dawat and the Dai sided with him. Maybe there is hikmat here that he remained Mazoon but, to a lay person, it was one person's word against another and the Mazoon apparently lost. And it is this damage that appears to be irreparable even today.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

but still it is not clear what actually was the issue between KQ and hebatullah

[kimanumanu]

Whatever the issue was is probably irrelevant. It's the fact that Hebatullah had the backing of shehzadas which is more telling.

[haqniwaat]

HNW,
I am sorry if it sounds as grilling session to you from all of us. but please understand that there has been so much gap between Dai and his followers that anyone who claims to be a representative of people whom they cant even approach leave aside ask question will face these kind of questions.
Kindly ignore the tone of questions and provide as much factual information you can to win some trust which Kotharis and Bohri leaders look to have lost forever.

Don't worry, it's not grilling at all. I wish I had all of the information that people are asking about, but not everyone has all the details. However, I will not tell you something that I don't know. Ameerul Mumineen SA says that when you don't know something, say that you don't know.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

Whatever the issue was is probably irrelevant. It's the fact that Hebatullah had the backing of shehzadas which is more telling.

bro
i tend to disagree a little.
we know the fact, but not the reason behind it. that is the core of this split.
MS side is saying KQ wanted to bring stray people to dawat fold, without taking raza of SMB.
and claiming he did not require raza as he had absolute raza over everything.
is this true?
why KQ side is not revealing everything, what was the real issue between him and hebatullah.
his silence till now was understandable as SMB had shut the case and no further debate was allowed.
but now after his wafat and especially mudslinging by MS side, what is the reason of his silence?

[kimanumanu]

Fair enough. My point is a bit different though. In what capacity did Hebatullah challenge Mazoon? Do you have any other examples of a normal person challenging successfully a shehzada let alone one of the rutbas? What has happened to all those who even dared to voice anything against them? How come Hebatullah is the exception? Why was he given the Dai's full attention to the extent he even got his reprieve in a waaz? These are the questions that I would like answers to.

[abde53]

Haqniwaat Bhai
You and many including me have lot of respect for Burhanuddin Moula RA but can you tell us why he did not issue any Bayan when Taizoon Bhai Shakir was beaten in Mumbai, why did Moula kept quiet when Asghar Ali Engineer was falsely accused and his house and office was ransacked. Why did Moula not say anything about what happened in Udaipur Masjid when progressive women were beaten up and humiliated. Do you know who was responsible for these acts of vandalism and violence at Saify Mahal

[Trueman_786]

Do you or anyone knows about the story of Syedna Burhanuddin Moula's nephew or grandson who was either kidnapped or missing with lots of money.
It is a very old story and Mumbai Police never solved or were paid off to shut the case.

Yes, he is the grand-nephew of Burhanuddin Mola, namely Khadija bs' grandson, Mustafa, who had his name changed to Abdul Qadir. Another Jameaite don't-know-anything-about-the-outside-world Mufaddal bs zombie.

Can you tell us more about this person?
Do you have any idea about his current state?
Apparently,
His wife has separated from him and he's not been seen at his offices- Zainee mohalla ever since.
Is it true?

[Biradar]

Haqniwaat Bhai
You and many including me have lot of respect for Burhanuddin Moula RA but can you tell us why he did not issue any Bayan when Taizoon Bhai Shakir was beaten in Mumbai, why did Moula kept quiet when Asghar Ali Engineer was falsely accused and his house and office was ransacked. Why did Moula not say anything about what happened in Udaipur Masjid when progressive women were beaten up and humiliated. Do you know who was responsible for these acts of vandalism and violence at Saify Mahal

Bolding mine.

This exactly is the problem. SMB was an ineffectual leader. He may have commanded respect, and even reverence from his more fanatical followers, but he was an ineffectual and weak leader. What haqniwaat is showing by all these "palace intrigue" stories is that the dawaat was organization without a strong leader, and the nefarious elements all jockeyed for power. If SMB could not control his own brothers and children, could not prevent his own Mazoon from being humiliated and abused, how could he get justice for others?

The major mistake which haqniwaat and others like him make is that they think that the da'i can't make any mistake, ever. They see "hikmat" behind every move. Reality shows otherwise. Often, the hikmat really is weakness and an inability to lead. Simple as that. It leaves huge vacuum in power, which people like Mr. Yusuf Najmuddin and then Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin (DMMS) fill. It leads to the mess we find ourselves in.

Honestly, the responsibility for this schism and lack of clarity lies only with one person, SMB himself. He could have prevented this, but did not. if he could not protect his own mazoon, forget expecting justice for Taizoon Shakir and reformists in Udaipur. The responsibility for this also lies only with one person, SMB himself. Don't go looking for other scapegoats. Yes, someone else may have been running the show. But as the captain, and a self-declared infallible one, the buck stops with SMB and no one else.

[haqniwaat]

Because it is not true - nobody was told to sign saying that he received faiz of Imam. However, the signatures that were taken were after the wafaat of Burhanuddin Mola RA, by Idris bs in one of his daily meetings. He had everyone in Saifee Mahal sign - on a blank sheet of paper - and he said that these would go to local officials in India.

i clearly remember there was audio relay of SMB of his africa safar during one of the 40 days after his wafat all over the world. i have heard that myself also. in that he says ( i dont remeber exact words ) imam faiz comes to dai only. and thru dai it goes to else. someone claiming otherwise is not on the right path. who is that someone he was refering to?
MS side claims he is KQ.
ur comments plz

Yes, I have seen this video and the Hebatullahs showing it around the world like some Bollywood blockbuster. Hebatullah says something different and SMB says something different. We've already received proof that the Rozat Tahera video was masterminded by Dr. Moiz and shehzadas and gang. What more proof do people want?! Wake up and smell the coffee! Why is this community so stupid?!

[haqniwaat]

Haqniwaat Bhai
You and many including me have lot of respect for Burhanuddin Moula RA but can you tell us why he did not issue any Bayan when Taizoon Bhai Shakir was beaten in Mumbai, why did Moula kept quiet when Asghar Ali Engineer was falsely accused and his house and office was ransacked. Why did Moula not say anything about what happened in Udaipur Masjid when progressive women were beaten up and humiliated. Do you know who was responsible for these acts of vandalism and violence at Saify Mahal

Do you really think the great shehzadas actually told SMB that Taizoon was beaten up or for that matter, anyone else they have beaten up and done things to?! Of course not! The shehzadas told SMB what they wanted him to know. Why do you think they have been able to run away with dawat itself?!

[anajmi]

haqniwaat,

Would you then agree that the Dai was not "ghaib na jaankar"?

[haqniwaat]

The Munaafiq Shehzada

The youngest shehzada of Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin RA was Abdullah Hakimuddin. He was an "urtaalisma" - those who believed that nass was not done on Syedna Najmuddin RA and therefore, the Imam had done zuhoor. Shehzada Abdullah Hakimuddin's tomb was located inside the qubba in Surat until renovations. His history was never revealed to the public at large - since he was a shehzada. He was very powerful and outspoken and upon the wafaat of Syedna Najmuddin, he boasted about how he could have changed the nass that Syedna had done if he had known about his death being near! This was the evil that wound through the great and well-known flourishing era of 48 years of the golden age of Najmuddin Mola RA.

One of Shehzada Abdullah Hakimuddin's sons was Fazal bs. He had three daughters and one son. One of the daughters was Ateka bs. Ateka bs' daughter was Amatullah Aisaheba, wife of Burhanuddin Mola RA. So Mufaddal bs is related to Abdullah Hakimuddin. Abdullah Hakimuddin is Mufaddal bs' great great grandfather. How history repeats itself.

[haqniwaat]

haqniwaat,
Would you then agree that the Dai was not "ghaib na jaankar"?

Per Fatimid belief, and STS used to define this many times, the Da'i can see as far as he wants depending on how far Imam uz Zamaan wants him to see. In other words, he is in human form and thus is humanly limited until the divine force intervenes. Rasulullah SAW also has miracles of this sort.

[Moiz_Dhaanu]

haqniwaat: what you are revealing, basically goes to show the SMB was totally unable to control his brothers and sons, and hence a very weak and ineffectual leader. How come he could not intervene and stop this Iblisi Toli in its track? He was da'i for 50 years, and a single open scolding from him in a vayeez would have put a halt to this mischief. Yet, he did not do anything. Why? If he could not bring justice and fairness to his own family members, what could ordinary bohras expect from him? Hence this terrible feeling on injustice and lack of succor from SMB when his family launched their tyranny on ordinary bohras. What was SMB doing? Sleeping? Or wringing his hands in helplessness?

Sorry to say this, but SMB was not a very good leader, and although he was eloquent, he was weak and unable to eradicate these mischievous weeds from the garden of dawaat. I feel that STS, on the other hand, was far more powerful, perhaps even ruthlessly so, and brought the whole then dawaat machinery under his control. How come SMB could not do so?

But, please keep going. All of this sounds like a very interesting soap opera, hopefully dispelling this veneer of infallibility around the person of the da'i.

@Biradar
Please stop blaming SMB(ra) for every evil which YN(yusuf najmuddin) his Bros and his sons did and the kiind of intolerant dawat they created for their own greed and lust for power.
Please read the the biblical event of Yakub nabi (jacob) and how his 11 sons did every thing against the will of their father, and he could do nothing to stop them. Does the world blame Jacob (yakub nabi) for not able to control his sons the answer is "No"...similarly one cannot and should not blame Buhanuddin moula (ra) for the evil his sons and brothers are.
Just like STS(ra) had all of his 11 sons team up against mazun moula (the youngest) , yakub nabi's 11 sons teamed up against yusuf nabi (the youngest) ...history repeats itself.

[ghulam muhammed]

haqniwaat: what you are revealing, basically goes to show the SMB was totally unable to control his brothers and sons, and hence a very weak and ineffectual leader. How come he could not intervene and stop this Iblisi Toli in its track? He was da'i for 50 years, and a single open scolding from him in a vayeez would have put a halt to this mischief. Yet, he did not do anything. Why? If he could not bring justice and fairness to his own family members, what could ordinary bohras expect from him? Hence this terrible feeling on injustice and lack of succor from SMB when his family launched their tyranny on ordinary bohras. What was SMB doing? Sleeping? Or wringing his hands in helplessness?

Sorry to say this, but SMB was not a very good leader, and although he was eloquent, he was weak and unable to eradicate these mischievous weeds from the garden of dawaat. I feel that STS, on the other hand, was far more powerful, perhaps even ruthlessly so, and brought the whole then dawaat machinery under his control. How come SMB could not do so?

But, please keep going. All of this sounds like a very interesting soap opera, hopefully dispelling this veneer of infallibility around the person of the da'i.

@Biradar
Please stop blaming SMB(ra) for every evil which YN(yusuf najmuddin) his Bros and his sons did and the kiind of intolerant dawat they created for their own greed and lust for power.
Please read the the biblical event of Yakub nabi (jacob) and how his 11 sons did every thing against the will of their father, and he could do nothing to stop them. Does the world blame Jacob (yakub nabi) for not able to control his sons the answer is "No"...similarly one cannot and should not blame Buhanuddin moula (ra) for the evil his sons and brothers are.
Just like STS(ra) had all of his 11 sons team up against mazun moula (the youngest) , yakub nabi's 11 sons teamed up against yusuf nabi (the youngest) ...history repeats itself.

Bro Moiz_Dhaanu,

I respect your sentiments but how can you be so sure that SMB was not a party to the sad turn of events ? Its your blind faith in him which prevents you from seeing the machinations in Saifee Mahal which has its roots in the top hierarchy. There are umpteen number of examples right here on the forum which proves that SMB was complicit in many matters which has allowed the rot to grow disproportionately in Saifee Mahal, you just have to surf the thread "Archives of the PDB website" to get a feel of it. The earlier Dais were poor and lead a life of austerity but the wealth increased manifold only during the tenure of SMB and needless to say that the money came from the average bohras as the same was not inherited by SMB. One cannot deny the fact that he had a mass appeal among Bohras and was a good orator and that's all. One should also not forget that in the event of a war, the accolades are showered on the General in victory but it is the same General who also receives brickbats in case of a defeat, the foot soldiers are not responsible for the outcome.

[ghulam muhammed]

The holy night of Lailatul Qadr is suppose to be the period between the night of 22nd Ramzan and Fajr of 23rd Ramzan and this period is considered to be of great importance. There is a mass propaganda by the marketing team of MS to convince his abdes into believing that their leader was born on this important night so as to give him a holier then thou image but as per insiders this is a blatant lie as MS was born in the afternoon of 23rd Ramzan in Surat. Can Bro.haqniwaat confirm the same ?

[dismantled]

The Munaafiq Shehzada

The youngest shehzada of Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin RA was Abdullah Hakimuddin. He was an "urtaalisma" - those who believed that nass was not done on Syedna Najmuddin RA and therefore, the Imam had done zuhoor. Shehzada Abdullah Hakimuddin's tomb was located inside the qubba in Surat until renovations. His history was never revealed to the public at large - since he was a shehzada. He was very powerful and outspoken and upon the wafaat of Syedna Najmuddin, he boasted about how he could have changed the nass that Syedna had done if he had known about his death being near! This was the evil that wound through the great and well-known flourishing era of 48 years of the golden age of Najmuddin Mola RA.

One of Shehzada Abdullah Hakimuddin's sons was Fazal bs. He had three daughters and one son. One of the daughters was Ateka bs. Ateka bs' daughter was Amatullah Aisaheba, wife of Burhanuddin Mola RA. So Mufaddal bs is related to Abdullah Hakimuddin. Abdullah Hakimuddin is Mufaddal bs' great great grandfather. How history repeats itself.

Wow!

[bohra_manus]

The holy night of Lailatul Qadr is suppose to be the period between the night of 22nd Ramzan and Fajr of 23rd Ramzan and this period is considered to be of great importance. There is a mass propaganda by the marketing team of MS to convince his abdes into believing that their leader was born on this important night so as to give him a holier then thou image but as per insiders this is a blatant lie as MS was born in the afternoon of 23rd Ramzan in Surat. Can Bro.haqniwaat confirm the same ?

I checked on a Hijri Calendar application, shows SMS's birthday on 23rd Ramazan.