Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

[SBM]

Taha aka Adam
So you mean to say the SMS is NOT going to testify since he is the rightful Dai and does not need to answer to any one
So why is he spending so much money using all those high paid Lawyers to defend himself just tell the judge to to to hell since he is rightful appointed Dai and Imam will come to save him if Judge throws his a--e in Jail

[mnoorani]

Taha aka Adam
So you mean to say the SMS is NOT going to testify since he is the rightful Dai and does not need to answer to any one
So why is he spending so much money using all those high paid Lawyers to defend himself just tell the judge to to to hell since he is rightful appointed Dai and Imam will come to save him if Judge throws his a--e in Jail

Dear Mr. SBM

Please do not utter nonsense statements and show your level of intelligence on a forum that has a readership across continents. Our Mufaddal Maula is the rightful Dai whether you beleive it or not. And as Dai he has the right to spend the money at his disposal. The money is his and he has the right to live the emperor Akbar. Our Maula is the king without the crown and his rule is over the hearts of mumineen not over man made borders that can be erased overnight. Why does it bother anyone when he takes his estranged grandsons in super luxury car rides ? Is our Maula responsible for the blasts in Karachi ? That he should show remorse . Was any one of his family injured at the blast site that he should show concern ? There are series of whats app messages by the enemies of dawat who are ridiculing at the not care a damn attitude of our beloved Dai and the whole priestly clan and the Kothar. Let the Karachi mumineen care for their own problems and for their own injured. As a Dai our Maula is responsible only for our life after death. Maula will take us to Jannat and that is the goal of every mumin. We have to suffer in this world as this temporary and Jannat does not come free. We have to be led to Jannat by our Maula. Jannat is his personal jaagir as his father owns it and the last Dai had declared himself Ilah al Ardh , Allah of Land. So the Jannat is the inheritance of our Maula and he know best to redeem of our sins. People are bothered about the Gold Guineas gifted to the Dai by the ladies of our community and people like you raise issues of providing help to those who lost their income due to terrorists acts. Why do Mumin need income. Our Maula provides the thaali of faiz and is teaching everyone of making Mohabbat ni roti. People do not need education and can make rotis and sell them. Bohra cuisine is famous so why cant bohras work as domestic cooks making specialist rotis ? To keep up the level of shaan our Maula needs to travel in private jets. Why does no one make any statements when the Middle East Royals fly in much bigger jets ? Is our Maula less then a royal ? Our maula does not have the oil resources of a Kingdom as his kingdom is over the hearts and minds of his people. And it is our duty as a true mumin to finance his lifestyle with our blood as we are his only resource. Our Maula is just 8th Pass. He does not have the access to elaborate knowledge of shrewed investments so he sells titles that we mumins gleefully purchase at lakhs and crores of rupees. Remember that the Mumin shaiks of the Middle East countries are originally cooks from the Gujarat and Waaghar region and many from Rajasthan and MP were peddlers or salemen or small traders who started life in the Gulf at the very bottom. These same people now have money and what better way of spending their hard earned money then by buying sharafs of titles and ziayafats. These one time samosa sellers and bhatyaaras are now the high ranks of the jamaat and they have the privilege of occupying the front row of the mosque , see how our maula has promoted them. These people are the ambassadors of our community and poor mumins should look at them for inspiration. This is why charity is not allowed in our community if the poor are helped then it will be a great strain on our jamaaat sethias and in turn it will stop them from spending more money for our beloved maula. This is why the mumin should spend money by najwas and salaam and fitro etc, at the farmaan of Aqa Maula who will take us to Jannat. Not on the poor of Ahmedabad or for the Bohra widows or for the education of poor Bohra children. If you spend money on the waaris of the haqiqi Kaaba then Paradise is guaranteed, But if you spend money in the way of helping poor bohra brethren then you are committing a sin as then Maulas income will drop. It was only the duty of Imams like Maulana Zine Al Abedin who would go out in the night to distribute food to the poor. That was the job of Imams so why shoud a Dai try to imitate the mighty Imam ? Rasul Allah was known for walking and would let his ghulam ride the horse. But remember that was Rasul, Our Dai has to be carried on the Paalkhi as if he walks then he would be trying to be like Prophet Mohammed a sacrilege as Nauzobillah no human can even try to imitate an iota of our prophet. Our prophet forgave even yahudis who treated him with disrespect, so this is why our Dais forgave Modi and spent millions for him. But then Modi is the one who deceived the muslims of India with his Ghar waapsi and the extra boldness of RSS in his tenure. The situation in Yemen is so dangerous that Mumins are trapped, But look at our Maula, he gets government welcome in Egypt that would put firaon to shame. Now amidst the ISIS terror. Our brave Maula will show his shaan in Iraq . Our maula is so powerfull that he will be able to fly off to safety if there is any violence towards his followers and will allow the azim sharaf of shahaadat to the common bohra people instead of his kith and kin. Imagine being called shaheed ,in the same breath as Qutbuddin Shaheed ! See how selfless our Maula is.

[SBM]

^
Thumps Up

his Ghar waapsi and the extra boldness of RSS in his tenure.

Ghar Waapsi for Abdes/Amtes will be very easy, they already do Wadhawa on their Dai just like Hindus do on their Bhagwan, Just like RSS has Goonda Army, SMS has Burhani Goondas (one had Aadhi Chaddi the other as STD)

[james]

Dude what's embarrassing is to watch you troll Crater Lake. I agree with her. There are many mumineen who doubt and question the state of Dawat currently. They think MS is a fool and they hate the constant demands for money and streams of emails of "must dos" for coming and watching videos or paying up or traveling for ziyarats, MS waazes etc. After the third hour of any event, eyes start glazing over and the complaints start getting voiced.

As for Crater Lake's anguish of the early days, four months is still early days! That was the time she was probably still trying to determine the truth or her friends and relatives had begun abandoning her and her family. For those of us who have to frequently see MS in the glory of his bumbling ways, the trauma of Burhanuddin Moula's wafat will always be fresh. We feel his loss deeply. It's only MS and his cohorts who seem to be only too happy to be rid of him!

You're a moron for speaking on behalf of "many" mumineen.

Also,you're pathetic at white knighting.Crater Lake joined this forum in March'14 all guns blazing showing support for Khuzaima and making derogatory posts against Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.Suddenly after two months,she felt intense anguish? I laughed.For the record,she felt this anguish right around the time Cromwell Hospital Video and Audio was shown around the world.Capische?

[Moiz_Dhaanu]

You're a moron for speaking on behalf of "many" mumineen.

Also,you're pathetic at white knighting.Crater Lake joined this forum in March'14 all guns blazing showing support for Khuzaima and making derogatory posts against Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.Suddenly after two months,she felt intense anguish? I laughed.For the record,she felt this anguish right around the time Cromwell Hospital Video and Audio was shown around the world.Capische?

Jo khud apni kaum(community) ki auraton(women folk) ke barein mein "Derogatory" remarks kar sakta hai , uski koi bhalaa kyun izzat karein?

Dont we all remember his infamous remarks about how we should look scornfully at ladies who do not wear ridah(does'nt matter whether they are somebody's wife or sister).
Dont we all remeber his male chauvinistic remark about " ghar no kono pakdi le"..

Really !!! Just amazing view points about women from a self claimed leader.

[Crater Lake]

Dude what's embarrassing is to watch you troll Crater Lake. I agree with her. There are many mumineen who doubt and question the state of Dawat currently. They think MS is a fool and they hate the constant demands for money and streams of emails of "must dos" for coming and watching videos or paying up or traveling for ziyarats, MS waazes etc. After the third hour of any event, eyes start glazing over and the complaints start getting voiced.

As for Crater Lake's anguish of the early days, four months is still early days! That was the time she was probably still trying to determine the truth or her friends and relatives had begun abandoning her and her family. For those of us who have to frequently see MS in the glory of his bumbling ways, the trauma of Burhanuddin Moula's wafat will always be fresh. We feel his loss deeply. It's only MS and his cohorts who seem to be only too happy to be rid of him!

You're a moron for speaking on behalf of "many" mumineen.

Also,you're pathetic at white knighting.Crater Lake joined this forum in March'14 all guns blazing showing support for Khuzaima and making derogatory posts against Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.Suddenly after two months,she felt intense anguish? I laughed.For the record,she felt this anguish right around the time Cromwell Hospital Video and Audio was shown around the world.Capische?

I wish I could feel flattered by the attention James and Adam are giving me, but instead I feel so revolted, I had to run to the toilet to vomit. Creeps!

Really James, you bothered to go dig up my old posts? Since all of you (including Unhappy!) are so concerned about my "anguish," let me give you some insight into my state of mind in the months following Burhanuddin Aqa's wafat, even though it makes me cringe.

At the time of Burhanuddin Aqa's wafat I was already disillusioned with dawat that was to come. I was horrified that our next "dai" did not think we deserved a place in heaven if we did not cherish roti-making and had said that a university education was a waste of time (su zaroorat che...) Plus I had not heard Burhanuddin Moula do nass on him - and it weighed on my mind. When the Fatemi Dawat email arrived, I was asked to delete it but I read it and decided to look into it. By March I was convinced that haq was with Qutbuddin Aqa even though I had not given misaq yet. Word was beginning to spread that my family was with Qutbuddin Aqa since we were not present at the masjid . Some heavy breathers started calling my home and threatened my family. Lanat messages were left on our home voice mail. James is absolutely right, it was the Cromwell video that was the cause of my disenchantment even though by the second viewing I was convinced that it had the same level of ambiguity as the Raudat Tahera "nass".

What was reponsible for my disenchantment James Bhai is not that after the Cromwell video I was questioning my belief in the nass on Qutbuddin Moula but rather that the shehzadas who had received ilm at the feet of Burhanuddin Moula had stooped to this level to propogate a lie. If a lifetime of receiving ilm from a dai could leave one so stupid and so corrupt, where was the hope for mumineen!

All I say is, the proof is in the pudding. Here I am with Qutbuddin Aqa so it is very evident who shored up my iman. Upon reflection I realise that faith does not mean to never question but it means to persevere to find satisfactory answers.

I suggest that you quit worrying about my iman now. Stop asking us to "please come back...." ewww... Tell the heavy-breathers, the angry and the inarticulate to stop calling our homes. Worry about the likes of Unhappy, Objective and frustrate_bohra (don't take it personally guys!) who are filling up your masjids! Worry about the amils who are terrorizing the poor and the weak. In short clean up YOUR house!
Oh yeah...and when you realize your dai is fake, [DELETED] [DELETD] Maybe THEN, you can call us back.

[think_for_yourself]

^^^^ hee hee....I believe that same mouth breather called my home every single Friday for months on end . "<Breeeaaath> Tu Dawedar che? <Breeaaath> To ley aajey Jumoa na din mein tara upar lanat parhi ne maari ibadat poori karu chu....<Slow breaaath out>" It sent everyone in my household rolling on the floor with laughter.

One Friday when he called, he was so incoherent, I had no idea what he was saying. He was slurring his words and it sounded like he had poori karofied his ibadat with a few drinks of the wrong kind

He has stopped calling now... I hope he did not hurt himself too badly with all the phone calls he made

[Crater Lake]

^^^^ hee hee....I believe that same mouth breather called my home every single Friday for months on end . "<Breeeaaath> Tu Dawedar che? <Breeaaath> To ley aajey Jumoa na din mein tara upar lanat parhi ne maari ibadat poori karu chu....<Slow breaaath out>" It sent everyone in my household rolling on the floor with laughter.

One Friday when he called, he was so incoherent, I had no idea what he was saying. He was slurring his words and it sounded like he had poori karofied his ibadat with a few drinks of the wrong kind

He has stopped calling now... I hope he did not hurt himself too badly with all the phone calls he made

Yup! That's the one. He once complained about how much it cost him to call us

[UnhappyBohra]

Dude what's embarrassing is to watch you troll Crater Lake. I agree with her. There are many mumineen who doubt and question the state of Dawat currently. They think MS is a fool and they hate the constant demands for money and streams of emails of "must dos" for coming and watching videos or paying up or traveling for ziyarats, MS waazes etc. After the third hour of any event, eyes start glazing over and the complaints start getting voiced.

As for Crater Lake's anguish of the early days, four months is still early days! That was the time she was probably still trying to determine the truth or her friends and relatives had begun abandoning her and her family. For those of us who have to frequently see MS in the glory of his bumbling ways, the trauma of Burhanuddin Moula's wafat will always be fresh. We feel his loss deeply. It's only MS and his cohorts who seem to be only too happy to be rid of him!

You're a moron for speaking on behalf of "many" mumineen.

Also,you're pathetic at white knighting.Crater Lake joined this forum in March'14 all guns blazing showing support for Khuzaima and making derogatory posts against Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.Suddenly after two months,she felt intense anguish? I laughed.For the record,she felt this anguish right around the time Cromwell Hospital Video and Audio was shown around the world.Capische?

Let's see, I spoke with about 20-30 guys who made one form of disparaging remark or another while waiting in a Qadambosi line for a Qadambosi that never happened. All I spoke with made some remark along the lines of how it was just a paisa no khel as he kept accepting ziyafats and kept postponing and eventually did not show up for a scheduled Qadambosi bethak. Not one person in that gathering looked happy for having been stood up. So, in your face James. Most mumineen do not have generous thoughts about your beloved Mufs. Whether they voice their thoughts or not.

[Crater Lake]

^Serves you right Unhappy! Why were you there to do Qadambosi of this world class fool?! And more importantly, why were you disappointed that it did not happen!

[UnhappyBohra]

^Serves you right Unhappy! Why were you there to do Qadambosi of this world class fool?! And more importantly, why were you disappointed that it did not happen!

My only disappointment was that instead of being outdoors, I had wasted a beautiful day in LA waiting for a dum6@$$.

[humanbeing]

^^^^ hee hee....I believe that same mouth breather called my home every single Friday for months on end . "<Breeeaaath> Tu Dawedar che? <Breeaaath> To ley aajey Jumoa na din mein tara upar lanat parhi ne maari ibadat poori karu chu....<Slow breaaath out>"

Hilarious ... awesomely hilarious .. the best one is ... "laanat pari ne ibaadat poori karu chu" ..

[araz5253]

Crater why are not willing to question that MB himself is fake. Muffy is just following legacy of ts mb

[Adam]

@SBM

Taha aka Adam
So you mean to say the SMS is NOT going to testify since he is the rightful Dai and does not need to answer to any one

When did I say that? Do you speak English?

Right now, KQ filed the case. He's been summoned to testify to his false claim. No request for Syedna to testify has been made by the court yet.


@Crater Lake

I wish I could feel flattered by the attention James and Adam are giving me,

No attention. You were just asked very simple fundamental questions and you couldn't give one valid answer. And since you are a Qutbi child or a close companion, if you didn't know the answer, who would?

[Crater Lake]

@SBM

Taha aka Adam
So you mean to say the SMS is NOT going to testify since he is the rightful Dai and does not need to answer to any one

When did I say that? Do you speak English?

Right now, KQ filed the case. He's been summoned to testify to his false claim. No request for Syedna to testify has been made by the court yet.


@Crater Lake

I wish I could feel flattered by the attention James and Adam are giving me,

No attention. You were just asked very simple fundamental questions and you couldn't give one valid answer. And since you are a Qutbi child or a close companion, if you didn't know the answer, who would?

I am not SKQ's child - except in a spiritual sense - and not a close companion - whatever that may be. I have the utmost respect for his children and I know them well - as do all mumineen who seek them out politely because they are genuinely nice people and answer their phones and reply to emails. I answer all questions that are real questions and not along the lines of "Hi baby. How are you?" You may not have liked my answers but I did answer them.

You are the ones that cannot answer to how you can accept that MS stood by and let MoiZ bs lie to the people in Raudat Tahera. Not only did MoiZ bhaisaab and not Burhanuddin Moula confer the "nass" on MS - MS condoned the lies with his silence.

James has not really asked any questions. He has only made insinuations by digging up old posts and he has made entreaties such has "please come back...." Giving Burhanuddin Moula's Kalaam as arguments. All the while ignoring Burhanuddin Moula's Kalaam for his Mazoon and mansoos.

And since you started the guessing game about who I am, you might as well confess that you are the mouth-breathing caller to our house. Perhaps you down the occasional Friday drink and call people's homes! And James is most likely the one fondly known as "Public Speaker" in my family. Since he likes to make long speeches without substance! James did you call my home with long speeches? If you did, you have a cool voice but it's wasted on making pompous speeches!

[think_for_yourself]

Goodness---Gracious----Me! The pompous speech giver called us as well! Not every Friday (!) but I deleted his speech at least three times from our VM. My husband and kids probably also encountered him!

[Adam]

@Crater Lake
Great. So now that you are back and checking your messages. Let's bring up our earlier discussions which you didn't reply to.
You have questioned Moiz Bs's position from the Raudat Video. There was no lies. Taizoon Shakir is just as delusional as KQ is, and twisting the facts.

View this link for another answer.
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/12 ... s-haq.html

Here's what I wrote earlier in my PM which you were scared to read, and petrified to answer:

Just to sum up a few questions.

1. Do you agree this site is a Munafiq run site? Yes or No?
2. I asked you for a reference / source of the audio.
3. You didn't answer about the link: http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... bi-as.html
4. You didn't answer the following Questions either:

============
Let me answer this categorically.

- I am assuming you are referring to the Audio clips posted on this Forum that are meant to be from Raudat Tahera on 19th Rajab. These is are clips posted on a Munafiq website by an unknown source, whose authenticity is yet to be confirmed. For all you know, someone may have edited it. Mind you, these were posted much before issue of your leader arose. There is a possibility that haters of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (whoever they may be) may have had bad intentions in ridiculing him and Nass altogether.
- When speaking for myself. I have said this many times. I was present in Raudat Tahera, and even heard the relay of the event in my Jamat (because the relay was played the next day due to some technical issues with the live relay). I heard it twice. Amoungst other things, On both occassions I clearly heard Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (not via Moiz BS) say the following words:
- Rutba ma charhaya che
- Hijabiyat nu Rutbo
- Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj
These words had a very hard impact on me since then and I remember it VERY clearly.
What is strange that the video posted on your site isn't at all clear, (only Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu taaj) can be heard, that too very muffled.
The video I heard in my Jamaat was much clearer.

You keep harping about two broken phrases that Moula was said that DO NOT constitute a nass

Please tell me, if the Azeem us Shaan Dai of the Imam, is sitting in a crowd, with ONLY 1 person standing in front of him , saying the above 3 mentioned quotes, naming him "mufaddal", using the words "Nass" and "Taaj" and "Rutba", and then this Saheb doing Shukr, and another Shehzada doing Shukr, and the Mukasir doing Talaqqi and the Dai giving Raza, and placing his hand on his back etc etc etc etc (if KQ was also infornt of him, you could still debate the name "Mufaddal")

Not to forget the following:
1. Multiple witnesses on many occcasions prior to that
2. A Document
3. Another audio
(All the above in line with Fatemi Nass practices)

...... DOES NOT "constitute a Nass"?
Then tell me what does!

A private Nass without any witnesses or any proof? (which is in violation with Dawat texts).??

Have a look at this website especially this link:
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... s-website/
Tell me which part of the video do you think Moula was not aware.

----------
Now, about the audio posted on the Munafiq site.
IF it were authentic:

also why did Moiz bhaisaheb lie? why did he not repeat what Aqa Moula Burhanuddin was saying in the "nass" drama? Why did he not say Moula puche che ke "naam su che?" su naam che? Mohammed naam che?

IF Moula was asking "su naam che", then he was asking Dr Moiz BS. Dr Moiz BS did not need to make it public, because it was a question posed to him. And despite this supposed questions, Mufaddal Moula was still standing in front of him when he said the words of Nass.

"ya sayyeda shohadai"
- I really can't tell what is being said because the audio isn't at all clear
- If he is saying ya sayyeda shohadai - then what's wrong?
- Couldn't it be like someone saying "ya ali" in pain in between sentences?
Again, these are all assumptions, that neither you or me can answer.
Why not just stick to what can be undeniably heard

Someone else mentioned this on the Forum (i'm not sure if it was you).
They said Syedna RA said "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj" and then stopped.
I'm guessing that person is hinting that Syedna RA made a "mistake" and realized it after he said those words and stopped.
1. His Tasawwur of the Dai - making a mistake is flawed.
2. IF Syedna made a mistake, named a wrong person, and used the words "Nass" near his name, and that could have had HUGE ramifications (as you can see), then it was Syedna's responsibility to clarify it, by saying "oops/ excuse me, i've already done Nass on someone else / please ignore what I just said ... But he didn't.
3. These thoughts are similar to the Sunni version in the Tafseer of the "Satanic Verses" ayat. Where they claim Rasulullah made a mistake and then back tracked. This is completely against Fatemi beliefs.
4. IF you believe that Syedna made a mistake (or whatever you'd like to call it), OR read a script he was not supposed to read, and then realised where he was going wrong and then stopped. This automatically means:
A) Syedna's aqal was intact and capable of differentiating from right and wrong. (which your site denies)
B) He could read (which your site denies)
C) He could speak (which your site denies)

That means, he also was aware and was in control of his senses and surrounding to put things straight.
Based on the above, if he knew things were going completely wrong and against his wishes, (and was AWARE of it), why play along with whatever happened after that? Why give the hand for Salaam? Why sit through an entire Shukr of Nass Araz without showing the tiniest bit of distaste? Why extend his hand to put a shawl? Why CLEARLY say (heard in your video) "khuda barakat apey" when given Najwa. If these people were outright munafiqs hijacking my dawat, sidelining my Mansoos, and putting the lives of my beloved mumineen at stake he could have either remained quiet, or even done Badd Dua! But he didn't. When Najwa was given (After all that) He said "Khuda barakat apey". He didn't sayربنا اطمس على اموالهم or any such thing. He said "khuda barakat apey". He was aware. And did Dua.

Rasulullah, throughout his sickness, when they called on his "brother" and brought the wrong guy, what did he do?
Did he pat him on the back and say, "thanks for coming, but please call my brother"? Did he give his hand for Salaam? Did he say "khuda barakat apey"?
NO.
He turned away.
That was the easiest thing to do. And Syedna RA could have done the same or similar.

Addressing you, In your words:

DO you really expect me to believe this shit? How you believe it is beyond me!

I am open to your thoughts. And await your reply.
Take your time. And don't get too uptight if I don't reply in time. We are all working for a living

والسلام على من اتبع الهدى

[/quote]


For the record, you confirmed Taher Qutbuddin made a mistake as well.

[mnoorani]

@Crater Lake
Great. So now that you are back and checking your messages. Let's bring up our earlier discussions which you didn't reply to.
You have questioned Moiz Bs's position from the Raudat Video. There was no lies. Taizoon Shakir is just as delusional as KQ is, and twisting the facts.

View this link for another answer.
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/12 ... s-haq.html

Here's what I wrote earlier in my PM which you were scared to read, and petrified to answer:

Just to sum up a few questions.

1. Do you agree this site is a Munafiq run site? Yes or No?
2. I asked you for a reference / source of the audio.
3. You didn't answer about the link: http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... bi-as.html
4. You didn't answer the following Questions either:

============
Let me answer this categorically.

- I am assuming you are referring to the Audio clips posted on this Forum that are meant to be from Raudat Tahera on 19th Rajab. These is are clips posted on a Munafiq website by an unknown source, whose authenticity is yet to be confirmed. For all you know, someone may have edited it. Mind you, these were posted much before issue of your leader arose. There is a possibility that haters of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (whoever they may be) may have had bad intentions in ridiculing him and Nass altogether.
- When speaking for myself. I have said this many times. I was present in Raudat Tahera, and even heard the relay of the event in my Jamat (because the relay was played the next day due to some technical issues with the live relay). I heard it twice. Amoungst other things, On both occassions I clearly heard Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (not via Moiz BS) say the following words:
- Rutba ma charhaya che
- Hijabiyat nu Rutbo
- Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj
These words had a very hard impact on me since then and I remember it VERY clearly.
What is strange that the video posted on your site isn't at all clear, (only Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu taaj) can be heard, that too very muffled.
The video I heard in my Jamaat was much clearer.


Please tell me, if the Azeem us Shaan Dai of the Imam, is sitting in a crowd, with ONLY 1 person standing in front of him , saying the above 3 mentioned quotes, naming him "mufaddal", using the words "Nass" and "Taaj" and "Rutba", and then this Saheb doing Shukr, and another Shehzada doing Shukr, and the Mukasir doing Talaqqi and the Dai giving Raza, and placing his hand on his back etc etc etc etc (if KQ was also infornt of him, you could still debate the name "Mufaddal")

Not to forget the following:
1. Multiple witnesses on many occcasions prior to that
2. A Document
3. Another audio
(All the above in line with Fatemi Nass practices)

...... DOES NOT "constitute a Nass"?
Then tell me what does!

A private Nass without any witnesses or any proof? (which is in violation with Dawat texts).??

Have a look at this website especially this link:
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... s-website/
Tell me which part of the video do you think Moula was not aware.

----------
Now, about the audio posted on the Munafiq site.
IF it were authentic:

IF Moula was asking "su naam che", then he was asking Dr Moiz BS. Dr Moiz BS did not need to make it public, because it was a question posed to him. And despite this supposed questions, Mufaddal Moula was still standing in front of him when he said the words of Nass.

"ya sayyeda shohadai"
- I really can't tell what is being said because the audio isn't at all clear
- If he is saying ya sayyeda shohadai - then what's wrong?
- Couldn't it be like someone saying "ya ali" in pain in between sentences?
Again, these are all assumptions, that neither you or me can answer.
Why not just stick to what can be undeniably heard

Someone else mentioned this on the Forum (i'm not sure if it was you).
They said Syedna RA said "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj" and then stopped.
I'm guessing that person is hinting that Syedna RA made a "mistake" and realized it after he said those words and stopped.
1. His Tasawwur of the Dai - making a mistake is flawed.
2. IF Syedna made a mistake, named a wrong person, and used the words "Nass" near his name, and that could have had HUGE ramifications (as you can see), then it was Syedna's responsibility to clarify it, by saying "oops/ excuse me, i've already done Nass on someone else / please ignore what I just said ... But he didn't.
3. These thoughts are similar to the Sunni version in the Tafseer of the "Satanic Verses" ayat. Where they claim Rasulullah made a mistake and then back tracked. This is completely against Fatemi beliefs.
4. IF you believe that Syedna made a mistake (or whatever you'd like to call it), OR read a script he was not supposed to read, and then realised where he was going wrong and then stopped. This automatically means:
A) Syedna's aqal was intact and capable of differentiating from right and wrong. (which your site denies)
B) He could read (which your site denies)
C) He could speak (which your site denies)

That means, he also was aware and was in control of his senses and surrounding to put things straight.
Based on the above, if he knew things were going completely wrong and against his wishes, (and was AWARE of it), why play along with whatever happened after that? Why give the hand for Salaam? Why sit through an entire Shukr of Nass Araz without showing the tiniest bit of distaste? Why extend his hand to put a shawl? Why CLEARLY say (heard in your video) "khuda barakat apey" when given Najwa. If these people were outright munafiqs hijacking my dawat, sidelining my Mansoos, and putting the lives of my beloved mumineen at stake he could have either remained quiet, or even done Badd Dua! But he didn't. When Najwa was given (After all that) He said "Khuda barakat apey". He didn't sayربنا اطمس على اموالهم or any such thing. He said "khuda barakat apey". He was aware. And did Dua.

Rasulullah, throughout his sickness, when they called on his "brother" and brought the wrong guy, what did he do?
Did he pat him on the back and say, "thanks for coming, but please call my brother"? Did he give his hand for Salaam? Did he say "khuda barakat apey"?
NO.
He turned away.
That was the easiest thing to do. And Syedna RA could have done the same or similar.

Addressing you, In your words:



I am open to your thoughts. And await your reply.
Take your time. And don't get too uptight if I don't reply in time. We are all working for a living

والسلام على من اتبع الهدى

For the record, you confirmed Taher Qutbuddin made a mistake as well.

[/quote]


Dear Adam Bhai,
These munafiqs have no words. Let us leave them alone and enjoy the glory of our beloved Dai Al Fatemi. Let us enjoy viewing his pictures around heavy security in historic masjids of Egypt. We should not derail the peoples thoughts on the mumineen trapped in Yemen. We should tell all that the farzando are with maula and the children will see for themselves the lavish lifestyle on offer at the true Dai. Even in Karbala our maula can have the palace and servants on call. See how clever our maula is as he acts only on the ilham of Imam. There was negative news about children custody and mumin trapped in Yemen. This was causing concern for the mumineen and on top of that we had the whatss app messages last week where a 14 year old bohri child was raped in Mumbai and kothar was not doing anything for any of these situations. All this happened right after the deadly blasts in Karachi. These munafiqs were spreading doubts in the pure minds of the mumins. So Maula accordingly as per the Ilhami farmaan of the Hidden Imam took out his grandchildren to KUN safar in full media limelight and also his travels to USA and Misr. Now the mumineen have forgotten about the bad events of our community and their attention is now diverted to these beautifull pictures of luxury and upmanship. This has been done only because our Haq na Dai was concerned about the common mumin who were feeling depressed and bad about such terrible events. But now we have all forgotten about the blasts in Karachi, the plight of the Bohras effected by SBUT, about the poor Bohra girl child who was raped and also the Yemen crisis. Aqa Maula zindabad

[Crater Lake]

Adam it's really quite simple....Aqa Moula was saying Ya Sayyadas shohada and Moiza bhaisaheb LIED. Mind you, he did not just not say anything. He actually said Aqa Moula fulan fulan farmave che - something about rutba nu sharaf aapey che. Hemanufactured what Burhanuddin Aqa was saying out of thin air and the LIED about it to thousands of mumineen. And all the shehzadas stood by and let him lie. That to me shoots down the credibility of anything else that Moiz bhaisab or any of the other shehzadas produce as evidence! And really MS did not even remember the day or the YEAR in which he was made Dai?!! Come on! Is that credible to anyone?

Also it is quite evident to me that Burhanuddin Moula is questioning what he was just asked to read: Su naam che? Mohammed naam che? Su naam che ehnu? It is very evident that he did not even know who was standing in front of him. How could he have knowingly done nass on MS!!

Also - I had myself thought that Burhanuddin Aqa could not speak anything coherent until I listened to this audio from the Raudat Tahera "nass." I only dug it out from my email after it was posted here by Unhappy. I wish I had listened to it sooner but I had not as I had seen the video in the masjid and did not imagine that there would be anything coherent in it. The video that was shown in our masjid had extremely muffled audio and what I had heard during Ashara was also very muffled. One wonders if it was purposely muffled in order to mislead the masses as to the real state of Burhanuddin Moula's mind and so as to not reveal to them that he kept questioning "naam su che? su naam che ehnu? Mohammed naam che? Mohammmed naam che ne?"

So yeah I have read all your convoluted explanations and I am still not convinced. I still believe what I heard and what I saw. You may refer to a million websites that say this or that but I am going by this audio that arrived in my in-box a few days after the "nass" and the video that is still on YOUR anti-Qutbuddin website. I heard Moiz bhaisab lie and I saw all the shehzadas stand by...So I cannot believe anything else they say. If they can lie in front of Aqa moula, their credibility is 100% shot for me. You can spin a million explanations but you cannot escape the fact that you are believing a bunch of liars. There is audio and video proof of it. And no convincing audio and video proof to the contrary that can be remotely credible because of this one HUGE blatant lie and MS's fuzziness about the details regarding the night Aqa Moula showed him a diary written by a third person as a form of nass!! Really! That's how a nass is done? Show a third person diary without saying anything when both the concerned parties are present face to face!! It's laughable!

But even more important than the proof of the negative for MS is that I believe Burhanuddin Moula's Mazoon of 50 years when he says nass was done on him. MS held no rutba so the Mazoon's word holds more weight for me.

[SAJJAD]

M Noorani Bhai,

Thumbs Up! Please keep it up Taherya and Burhaniya's Atrocities on the Bohri Community for the PAST 110 years!!

[Crater Lake]

Also, just because Burhanuddin Moula could not even tell who was in front of him ("Su naam che? Mohammed naam che ehnu?") does not mean that he could not break out of the fog of medication or the debilitating effects of the stroke itself - m o m e n t a r i l y to question what he had just read. Yes you cannot deny that he stopped mid sentence. Don't try to push your BS tasavvur on me. The fact is that he did stop and question what he had just been made to read. He never did finish even reading the sentence. As a result, never once did we even hear him read, let alone say of his own volition, in a public event, a full sentence that would indicate that he had done nass on MS. The only words that are purportedly his, are those that are without video, that were played BEFORE the Cromwell video. I have already said that they are not credible.

As a result I have to believe the Mazoon's word.

Now I believe that we have exhausted this topic. So Adam and James, take a hike. I actually have real work to do even on my day off and it does not involve leaving people voice mails or manufacturing arguments to support lies. You guys seem to be under the impression that that is somehow real work and deserving of a pay-check.

[Qadir]

Its a thing that even if a person is suffering from highest level of memory loss but he can easily identify his/her son or daughter.

And Syedna mohammed burhanuddin was not unaware of what was happening because only when he gave raza then SMS came near to him.

And why wasn't your beloved KQ not present. Was he so much busy that he didn't cared enough to meet his half brother(SMB) or according to him his predecessor during his illness.

would there be a hungama if he would just sit beside him and show some respect to SMB during his difficult times.

No mumin ever saw him during any milad, ramzaan, or ashara after 100 milad.

He was busy preparing for 16th rabiul awwal . he was busy designing his website and thinking for false evidences to post on it.

[araz5253]

Crater why are not willing to question that MB himself is fake. Muffy is just following legacy of ts mb

[Crater Lake]

Its a thing that even if a person is suffering from highest level of memory loss but he can easily identify his/her son or daughter.

And Syedna mohammed burhanuddin was not unaware of what was happening because only when he gave raza then SMS came near to him.

And why wasn't your beloved KQ not present. Was he so much busy that he didn't cared enough to meet his half brother(SMB) or according to him his predecessor during his illness.

Really! It's a thing?! Tell that to the children of Alzheimer's patients who painfully watch their parents forget them. My God where do these fools show up from!

Tell that to Burhanuddin Moula who is saying "Su naam Che? Naam su Che? Mohammed naam che ne?" When MS was in front of him!

And yes indeed SKQ had no business showing up in the jamaat of liars after their nass dawa. He did right by staying away. I believe he did do Salam and Qadambosi of Aqa Moula Burhanuddin RA several times in Saifee Mahal functions.

[Crater Lake]

Crater why are not willing to question that MB himself is fake. Muffy is just following legacy of ts mb

In my lifetime SMB has not given me a single reason to doubt him. Au Contraire, several reasons to be impressed by his wisdom and kindness.

In two years after "nass" MS gave me multiple shocking reasons to doubt him even while I was trying hard to believe - for the sake of my own spiritual health.

[Qadir]

If KQ would have a little affection for SMB the he would not have cared for the shehzadas presence.

I believe he did do Salam and Qadambosi of Aqa Moula Burhanuddin RA several times in Saifee Mahal functions.

KQ was never seen doing Qadambosi and Salam to SMB in public.

He even didn't came to see (and not become a part) SMB's funeral which passed on the day he was sitting preparing for his dawa and giving bayaans in his safehouse.

[Crater Lake]

If KQ would have a little affection for SMB the he would not have cared for the shehzadas presence.

I believe he did do Salam and Qadambosi of Aqa Moula Burhanuddin RA several times in Saifee Mahal functions.

KQ was never seen doing Qadambosi and Salam to SMB in public.

He even didn't came to see (and not become a part) SMB's funeral which passed on the day he was sitting preparing for his dawa and giving bayaans in his safehouse.

Like I said. This topic is exhausted. This has been addressed multiple times.

[mnoorani]

If KQ would have a little affection for SMB the he would not have cared for the shehzadas presence.

I believe he did do Salam and Qadambosi of Aqa Moula Burhanuddin RA several times in Saifee Mahal functions.

KQ was never seen doing Qadambosi and Salam to SMB in public.

He even didn't came to see (and not become a part) SMB's funeral which passed on the day he was sitting preparing for his dawa and giving bayaans in his safehouse.

Dear Qadir Bhai.
You are so right and correct ,but these munafiqs have nothing but hatred in their hearts. Yes KQ was never seen doing salaam to SMB in public ,but yes he did it privately , WHY ? Was this one of his sinister plans to show in later years that one dai is equal to another and so does not do sajda to another dai ? See the long time planning of the KQ. But it is proven that our Dai al Mutlaq Sayedna Mufaddal Saifuddin was the slave and ghulam of our beloved dead Aqa who is still called as Al Hayy even though he is buried. Our Dai Mufaddal Maula would obey the word of the Dai and recognised the rutba of the mazoon so he would bow his head in sajda and do araz of salaam and najwa in public to the KQ who is also his Kaka, Ex- Sasra and Sambdi. See what a simpleton our current Dai is.
But you look at KQ, he is so arrogant. Our beloved Dai Sayedna Mufaddal Saifuddin bent the rules of Shariat e Mohammedi and did away with Islamic conduct when he took out the janaza of the late dai with the face open for all the world to see. Our Maula also made seating arrangements and sat besides the janaza so that the ex mazoon would have no excuse to miss the last khidmat. But KQ is of a different breed. It is strictly not allowed for the face to remain open of a dead corpse. Infact in Ismaily Custom we cover the whole burial process with a thick cloth so that nothing can be seen . Even when the late 51st dai Muqaddas Taher Saifuddin who is not called Al Hayy and is fully dead had his face covered during the funeral . Even the then Indian President Mr. Zakir Hussain pleaded and pleaded but was denied the last darshan of our Aqa Mula as Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin stood fast on Islamic law and did not allow the be hurmati of the corpse. However seeing that KQ was absent, our Maula uncovered the face of the dead dai only so that KQ would be able to see it on TV and would not loose out the sawaab. A janaza has to be passed while standing up and one should not sit .It is so much so that when a janaza passes by and onlookers who are sitting should stand up. However , noting the weather conditions and the old age of the Ex- Mazoon our Dai Mufaddal Saifuddin allowed the greatest disrespect by sitting besides the dead body of his own father the Dai during the funeral procession, just so that the ex mazoon would be able to come and be part of the funeral. But the ex mazoon had adawat in his heart and did not attend the funeral of the Dai, citing safety reasons. He gives his justification the same way as when our late beloved dai ,Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin fled to safety under heavy police protection during the Bhindi Bazaar Blasts. Same way when Our Current Sayedna went to the safe confines of Sri Lanka from Pakistan during the previous bomb blasts in Karachi. But then these Munafiqs will refuse to understand logic as their heart is filled with adawat.

[james]

Let's see, I spoke with about 20-30 guys who made one form of disparaging remark or another while waiting in a Qadambosi line for a Qadambosi that never happened. All I spoke with made some remark along the lines of how it was just a paisa no khel as he kept accepting ziyafats and kept postponing and eventually did not show up for a scheduled Qadambosi bethak. Not one person in that gathering looked happy for having been stood up. So, in your face James. Most mumineen do not have generous thoughts about your beloved Mufs. Whether they voice their thoughts or not.

And it just keeps getting better!

You allegedly waited in a line for Qadambosi of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS. Then you spoke with 20-30 guys who made derogatory (disparaging) remarks about the person they wanted to kiss the feet of in the first place! Yeah Right!

Moron,even in your made up false story, 20-30 guys do not equate to "most mumineen" in a community of a few hundred thousands.

[james]

I wish I could feel flattered by the attention James and Adam are giving me, but instead I feel so revolted, I had to run to the toilet to vomit. Creeps!

[DELETED]. [DELETED]

Now that we have the obligatory tit-for-tat repartee out of the way,allow me to educate you on how forums work.A forum is an exchange of ideas/words/debates/conversations between the members who have registered.All the posts are up for scrunity/criticism/appreciation.This is the beauty of forums that once you have put your thoughts on a forum,it will be out there as long as the forum or forum member is not deleted manually.Now,if you are uncomfortable with people commenting on your trolling posts and taking you up on your fallacies,you could try blogging where you would be ranting nonstop and there would be no one to criticize your weak iman amateurish cliches. (You will have to keep comments closed on your blog for that to happen.<insert Taizoon Shakir's phone number> for more details on how blogging works.)

It's ironic to see you *sob* *sob* crying when you barged in a conversation between kimanumanu and me on this very thread.

So Adam and James, take a hike. I actually have real work to do even on my day off and it does not involve leaving people voice mails or manufacturing arguments to support lies. You guys seem to be under the impression that that is somehow real work and deserving of a pay-check.

I'm under the impression that you're a benefit scrounger living on Uncle Sam's benevolence. You didn't go away to Hawaii but you had a lean month that time and had to do away with your internet connection temporarily.

You see,two can play this game and I play extremely well.So think twice before trolling me again,I am not salaar.