Shias and Sunnis

[zinger]

Zinger, The terrorists who struck in Peshawar were not human beings ............. forget them being followers of any religion or sect ......... they are a cult.

Please do not put every evil thing happening in the world in the 'khata' of Sunnis or even Wahabis .............. RISE Above..!!!

Brother JC, let me remind you of who started the finger pointing first! Before talking of Shias, i would have suggested you rise above and not started it

[JC]

Zinger, The terrorists who struck in Peshawar were not human beings ............. forget them being followers of any religion or sect ......... they are a cult.

Please do not put every evil thing happening in the world in the 'khata' of Sunnis or even Wahabis .............. RISE Above..!!!

Brother JC, let me remind you of who started the finger pointing first! Before talking of Shias, i would have suggested you rise above and not started it

Bro Zinger, yes, may be I should have drafted my initial comment more appropriately. I fully agree that RISE ABOVE is required by both the sides.

Just to say why I wrote about Lanat Baazi is that this is more common in Shias/Bohras than calling Shias as Kafirs among Sunnis .............. but my intentions are not to 'hurt' anyone's feelings. We want to have a constructive debate.

[ghulam muhammed]

A constructive debate is possible only when the 'Hate' factor is eliminated and people condemn the ones who propagate hate. Why do Muslims forget that our beloved Prophet (s.a.w.) was "Rehmatul Alameen" and every second of His glorious life was spent on preaching love and compassion not only for Muslims but to the human race at large. One should outright reject any Hadith or religious literature which propagates hate especially within the Ummah as the same is not in line with the teachings of our Prophet (s.a.w.) and the glorious Quran. It is this hate factor which is the major cause of destruction and infighting going on in the Muslim world and which encourages beasts like Talibans to kill their co-brothers in Islam. It is the sectarian leaders of Shia/Sunni who provide fodder to the extremist ideologies which grooms hate mongers. We are facing one of the most difficult times at present and unless we ourselves unite, we cannot fight the external forces which is bent on creating havoc in the Muslim world.

[Critical_Thinker]

Brother JC, let me remind you of who started the finger pointing first! Before talking of Shias, i would have suggested you rise above and not started it

Bro Zinger, yes, may be I should have drafted my initial comment more appropriately. I fully agree that RISE ABOVE is required by both the sides.

Just to say why I wrote about Lanat Baazi is that this is more common in Shias/Bohras than calling Shias as Kafirs among Sunnis .............. but my intentions are not to 'hurt' anyone's feelings. We want to have a constructive debate.

Lanat Baazi is that this is more common in Shias/Bohras than calling Shias as Kafirs among Sunnis
Nonsense.
Sunnis are the overwhelming majority and have persecuted Shias for centuries.
Shias being called kafir are the lucky ones, because Shias are so often brutally murdered.

Just look on this forum.
There are several people here who constantly call Shias kafir.
I have yet to see even one person call a sunni kafir.

but my intentions are not to 'hurt' anyone's feelings. We want to have a constructive debate.
Would you like me to go through your past posts and quote them jc?
Most of them are purposely intended to hurt peoples feelings.
Never have you offered anything constructive.

Incidentally, while going through your old posts, it appears that you are a homosexual.
Almost every other sect in islam hates homosexuals apart from the ismaili branches like the bohras.
Go to saudi or iran and see how homosexuals are treated there.

Why do you hate the bohra community, when its one of the few muslim sects that is tolerant of homosexuality?

[anajmi]

We do not have constructive debates because everything you post is completely insignificant and irrelevant.

[zinger]

Brother JC, let me remind you of who started the finger pointing first! Before talking of Shias, i would have suggested you rise above and not started it

Bro Zinger, yes, may be I should have drafted my initial comment more appropriately. I fully agree that RISE ABOVE is required by both the sides.

Just to say why I wrote about Lanat Baazi is that this is more common in Shias/Bohras than calling Shias as Kafirs among Sunnis .............. but my intentions are not to 'hurt' anyone's feelings. We want to have a constructive debate.

Fair enough. lets end this discussion here then

[zinger]

Bro Zinger, yes, may be I should have drafted my initial comment more appropriately. I fully agree that RISE ABOVE is required by both the sides.

Just to say why I wrote about Lanat Baazi is that this is more common in Shias/Bohras than calling Shias as Kafirs among Sunnis .............. but my intentions are not to 'hurt' anyone's feelings. We want to have a constructive debate.

Lanat Baazi is that this is more common in Shias/Bohras than calling Shias as Kafirs among Sunnis
Nonsense.
Sunnis are the overwhelming majority and have persecuted Shias for centuries.
Shias being called kafir are the lucky ones, because Shias are so often brutally murdered.

Just look on this forum.
There are several people here who constantly call Shias kafir.
I have yet to see even one person call a sunni kafir.

but my intentions are not to 'hurt' anyone's feelings. We want to have a constructive debate.
Would you like me to go through your past posts and quote them jc?
Most of them are purposely intended to hurt peoples feelings.
Never have you offered anything constructive.

Incidentally, while going through your old posts, it appears that you are a homosexual.
Almost every other sect in islam hates homosexuals apart from the ismaili branches like the bohras.
Go to saudi or iran and see how homosexuals are treated there.

Why do you hate the bohra community, when its one of the few muslim sects that is tolerant of homosexuality?

CT, yes, we are tolerant of ones sexuality, perhaps more so than other communities. but i would request you to not make the sexuality of members a point of discussion please.

i agree to what you say, many of the posts of JC havent been in the best words or light, but his sexual preferences are his own. lets not make it the key point here. thanks

[JC]

Thank you for your support Bro Zinger.

CT, yes may be you have a point; may be my posts have not been carefully drafted; but having said that I have been critical of not only Bohras or Shias but of Sunnis and Wahabis too. I have been saying all along 'Religion is Divide' and 'let it be personal' .......... everybody, every sect claims to have direct access to Paradise and that's wrong. I do not favour Saudis for so many reasons, Sunnis for that matter (those various tableeghee people), Shias for doing certain things and Borhas for doing lot of things .......... I may be wrong though. And I try to give the credit where it is due. I have honestly written what I felt, again my intentions were never to hurt anyone, I may have been over-sarcastic though.

I accepted that I am gay; some use this against me; most have accepted it as something personal and I thank them. I have debated much on this and do not want to repeat or argue. And I believe Christians and Jews are more open and accommodating towards homosexuals than any Islamic sect .......... that does not mean I will convert to Christianity or Judaism. Bohras may be more accommodating but that is irrelevant when we are debating and discussing other things.

Again, I sincerely apologize to each and every one on this forum who felt my words hurt them.

[SBM]

^
JC you do not have to apologize specially to a moron like CT who just finds enough time between changing the diapers ( a lot of diapers to change) to come and spew venom,
What you do and what you believe is your personal matter. live and let live.we have enough instability and hate in this world and we do not need anymore. Least said the better

[ghulam muhammed]

Religious Diversity Can Help Our Spiritual Growth

I try to avoid talking about religion these days as far as I can. Religion is something, I’ve realized, that one must try to embody and reflect in one’s life, not debate or preach about. But the other day I broke my rule and allowed myself to engage in a religious discussion—with a friend who has been agonizing about the phenomenon of religious diversity for some time now. Why is it, he wanted to know, that God has permitted such an amazing—and what many regard as an extremely confusing—variety of religious traditions? Is such diversity part of God’s plan for the world, or is it the result of human perfidy?

In the course of our conversation, we came up with various possible theological explanations for the fact of religious diversity. We debated these threadbare, but none of them were fully convincing, and so we finally had to give up. There are some things, we had to conclude, that we just can’t ever be sure of, and so it’s pointless debating about them. God, in His wisdom, we were forced to admit, has chosen to keep some things as unfathomable mysteries that, at least as long as we are on earth, we can never truly and fully understand. God alone, we had to finally acknowledge, knows precisely why He has arranged for many different religious traditions to exist, and not just one. It is simply pointless, we were compelled to admit, to speculate as to why He might have done this, because we can never really be sure that the answers we come up with are correct.

If the why of religious diversity is a divine mystery that we are unable to fully comprehend, the how of our approach to religious diversity is something that we can definitely do something about. We can, my friend and I agreed, choose to manage our responses to religious diversity in a skilful way in order to help shape a better world for ourselves, and for everyone else, irrespective of faith, too. Religious diversity can, if we allow it to, serve as a valuable resource for our own evolution, as well as that of others. If approached in this way, it can be of enormous help in our spiritual journey—which is really the whole point and purpose of life.

But how could this at all be, you might demand to know, given the bloody conflicts that continue to rage over large parts of the world in the name of religion, spearheaded by rival bands of self-proclaimed believers? Surely, religious diversity, you might insist, has been, and continues to be, the cause of untold destruction, and to claim that it can help humanity in its collective spiritual evolution is utter nonsense!

I won’t deny your argument completely. There is certainly some truth in it. You aren’t at all wrong in pointing out that throughout history—and today, too—religious diversity has been used to foment bigotry, hate and violence on a massive scale between people who claim to follow different faiths. Perhaps more blood has been shed in the name of religion than anything else. But that said, I would hasten to add that it is not necessarily religious diversity as such that is to be blamed for this predicament. Instead, might it not be that it is the particular approach to such diversity that rival sets of religionists have chosen to adopt that has led them to commit the unspeakable crimes in the name of religion that they have?

No one can deny that a combative, exclusivist, supremacist, hate-driven approach to religious diversity, based on the belief that it is a curse that needs to be forcefully obliterated so that just one religion remains, has been all-too-widespread throughout human history. It is important to remember, however, that this has not been, and need not be, the only possible approach to religious diversity that we can choose to adopt. We are definitely not compelled—by God or by human nature or by our circumstances—to respond to religious diversity in this horrific manner. A knife can be used to injure somebody, but it can also be used to help a person in an operation theatre and save his life. Likewise, while some might choose to view religious diversity as an intolerable anathema that they insist should be forcibly stamped out, others might respond to the same phenomenon in a completely different manner, seeing it as a valuable resource for their own growth, as well as that of others.

If you really think about it, you will realize that almost everything that each one of us has or knows or is has been a result of interaction or dialogue with a great many others. None of us is so complete by ourselves that we do not need to depend on or connect with anyone else. It might well be that God has engineered us in such a way that we are compelled to be interdependent, to learn from and to share with others. Such interaction—not just between individuals, but also between ethnic and religious communities—seems throughout history to have been a principal means for personal as well as social evolution—intellectually, emotionally, materially and spiritually. This value of interaction is something that all of us will readily recognize in our own lives, although it is not something that all of us may be ready to acknowledge.

When I reflect on my life, I realize how much less I would have been had I not had the many enormously enriching opportunities to meet with, relate to, learn from and befriend people from various religious and other ideological backgrounds. In school and college, and then at university, I was blessed to have teachers from almost every conceivable faith tradition, and from them I learnt much that was to help me later in life. To help shape whatever little spirituality I might have (and no one, I think, is without even just a modicum of it), God arranged for people from varying religious backgrounds to enter my life. From a Christian teacher at school I learnt about love for God and service to others. A Muslim friend taught me importance of prayer and remembering God often. From a Buddhist monk I learnt about the value of silence, non-attachment and compassion for animals, plants and even stones. From a Sikh acquaintance I was led to appreciate the oneness that underlies all faiths that originate in the Divine. A Hindu mendicant introduced me to a way of understanding spirituality that transcends all boundaries and barriers of name and form. From a fan of Osho’s I learnt that being grim and severe can be a major sin, and that laughter, fun and occasional joking around can be great spiritual resources as well as a reflection and expression of a higher state of spiritual evolution. A Jewish woman who drove a truck with relief materials all the way from Paris to Sarajevo during the Bosnian civil war taught me that being religious should impel you to serve people in need, irrespective of their faith and ethnicity. From a man who (like me) does not identify with any one particular religion and who appreciates the goodness that he sees in every religion I learnt that it is not necessary to be boxed into any religious category, that you don’t have to be religious, in the conventional sense of the term, to connect to God, and that God and salvation are definitely not the monopoly of any particular community.

Besides these and many other people whom I have had the good fortune to meet who have given me invaluable help in my inner growth, there are scores of writers from across the world, men and women from various religious backgrounds and spiritual traditions, whose books on God, spirituality and life have had a major impact on me.

All these many people, from diverse faith backgrounds, have helped me in my evolution, and to them I am grateful. It isn’t that I truly practice all that I have learnt from them, but, yet, I know how greatly impoverished I might have been had God not let them into my life. Connecting with them all has truly been a divine blessing.

I might never have been what I am today but for the fact of religious diversity. Had I lived in a mono-religious world I might never have had all the many chances to grow that God has blessed me with!

URL: http://www.newageislam.com/interfaith-d ... h/d/100563

[alam]

What a stunning piece - a must read! And just when I was beginning to feel self- righteous all over again. Thanks Mr. Ghulam Muhammed, whoever you really are:)

[ghulam muhammed]

You are most welcome alam !!

[ghulam muhammed]

Shia Sunni Takfiriyat not acceptable.

No one has a right to declare that Shiism or Sunnism is false and heretical.

One of the major differences between Shia and Sunni traditions is about the role of leadership. When Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was returning from his last pilgrimage, he gathered the caravan at an oasis called Ghadir Khumm and delivered a revelation, that as of this day he has delivered the complete guidance from God, the message of Islam is complete now.

That message was and is crystal clear; there is no misunderstanding about it. There is no more advisement from God, and nothing more needed to added to the religion, it's done. However, the tag part of that message was understood in two different ways.

One set of people believed that the Prophet had assigned the role of spiritual leadership to Hazrat Ali, and their version of the last sermon of the prophet says that he was leaving Quran and his family for future guidance.

Whereas, others believed that, now all they have to do is to stick with the Quran as Prophet had called for in his last sermon, they do not have a record of Prophet's saying about following his family for guidance or assigning the responsibility of leadership to Hazrat Ali.

The first group became Shia and the other Sunni, and both have built up their "faith" and have concreted the differences.

If the Shia community feels they need guidance from a learned Imam, that is their choice, and if the Sunnis feel they don't need one, that is their choice and the same goes for the Ahmadiyya Muslims. What is your (all of us) problem? Are you answerable to anyone’s deeds other than your own on the Day of Judgment? If not, then mind your own faith, instead of calling each other name and denigrating the other, focus on being a good human being.

Is there a need to reconcile the difference? Not at all, there is no need to resolve nor will it be resolved, save your energy, this was all natural and predicted. It is human nature to divide themselves on ideas, religion, politics, cultures and nations. Shia, Sunni and Ahmadiyya division is natural, and there is no need to compel any one to believe otherwise. Islam forbids compulsion (2:256) against one's will without ifs and buts, and I hope Muslims believe in that.

What we need to do is learn to agree to disagree, and respect the otherness of others as God has instructed us to do (Q: 109) expressed in the following paragraphs.

He has created a well integrated and diverse interconnected world to function in harmony (55:7-11), and expects us to sustain and manage it. We have the responsibility to work towards it, as we are called the manager (Khalifa) of our surroundings. Did we lose the leadership role assigned to us?

We are all one family, and each one of us is a progeny of Adam and eve, and God made us into different tribes, communities, nations, (and faiths, as God acknowledges other faiths throughout the Quran and does not condemn any one, but assure them that if they are good to fellow beings, their reward is with him) races and other uniqueness (49:13), which prophet reaffirmed in his last sermon - not to discriminate any one based on any one of those criteria.

Each one of us is unique with his or her own thumbprint, taste buds, eye print and DNA. Had he willed he would have created all of us exactly alike in a factory like precision, but he chose to make, each one of us to be unique. That is his deliberate choice, isn't it? Did he make a mistake? Shall we respect his will?

When we are so different, conflicts are bound to arise, and he offers further guidance – the best ones among you are those who learn about each other, and if we do, myths fall by the wayside, and understandings develop. Knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of each other's uniqueness.

Islam is about human nature, and it is also known as a religion of fitra. Prophet (pbuh) had envisioned that will divide ourselves into many (72/73 is a metaphoric number) tribes. We all must compete in doing good to fellow humans, and one among us will score high in good deeds (taking care of fellow humans) while others will pass, one or two may fail. (College examples).

Prophet assigned you and me to read and understand the Quran, and he knew that we all will have a different understanding of it based on our own experiences.

No one has a right to declare other’s tradition as false or heretical. That is the Job of Allah, not yours. If you do that, you are assuming to be his deputy, an associate of God, or a partner of God and that is not acceptable to any Muslim other than men like you. Unless you have an appointment letter from Allah, your declaration is not acceptable to any.

If you are declaring fellow Muslim to be a non Muslim, then you are committing Shirk, and your word has no value to us in the society, however, that is between you and God for committing the fraud of representing him.

Please note, we have no intentions of giving you 100 lashes for committing shirk, no one has that right.

We can punish for violations of civil rights, robbing, raping, thieving, molesting, abusing family members, employees, breaking contracts with fellow beings, massacring, killing and other civic violations... but we cannot punish you, and no one has the right to punish you for what you believe, that is between you and God.

http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.in/ ... table.html

[ghulam muhammed]

Shia Sunni difference over Prophet's last sermon, what do we do about it?

How do Shia, Sunni and other Muslims come together for common good?

Facts don't matter, it did not matter to President Bush and his followers, and they believed what they believed despite the information available to the contrary. We Muslims are no different, each one of our sect is entrenched with certain beliefs, and our fundamental beliefs will not change. Indeed, accepting change is like making the earth beneath us disappear. If Sunnis accept Shia version as fact or Shias see the Sunni version as the truth, their whole theology collapses, each one will cease to exist, and for that reason, no one will subscribe to each others' "facts".

Sunnis believe that in his last sermon, Prophet said he was leaving the book (to learn and understand, as we are individually accountable for our actions) while the Shia Muslims believe that he also said he is leaving behind his progeny to offer guidance. Even if we were to recover the real voice and his speech, neither group will believe in it; it amounts to wiping out our beliefs. It is best to follow the guidance from Qur'aan; let you believe what works for you and I believe what works for me, as long as we do not mess with each other's space, sustenance and nurturence. Both will go to Janna if we care about God's creation.

Shia beliefs have worked for Shias, Just as Sunni, Wahhabi, Ahmadiyya, Bohra, Ismaili, Salafi, Deobandi and other beliefs have worked for them. Do we see the need for a change?

Religion is not a football game where the touchdown will be decided if the guy’s foot or any part of his foot was inside the line while catching the ball. Religion is not that precise, a sinful woman can give water to a thirsty animal and earn God's grace, and drunk can share food with the neighbor and get preference over the Namazi (someone who prays all times). Islam is a big universal religion and not defined by petty lines. All will go to paradise, if you take care of fellow beings, animals and environment - indeed serving and preserving God's creation means serving God.

We have conflicts among us, not real ones, but the ones that do not affect our space, sustenance and nurturance. God has intentionally created us to be different, he created us from a single couple in to many tribes, communities and nations, and he expects us to be different, but he also expects us to know each other, and figure out how to preserve his creation and not mess with it. The best among us are the ones who are righteous, those who care about God's creation, each one of us.

We need to learn about our difference, that is human curiosity, however we need to do our Jihad, our struggle in fighting the temptation to denigrate the other in any fashion. Here again God loves us, and guides us how to dialogue without ever putting each other down.

The Sunnis include all of Prophet's wives as his family, where as Shias limit it to Fatima and her descendents. There are Sunnis who claim that they are descendents of the Prophet, as if to claim special privileges. Islam is about equality and humility and not privileges. No one in Islam is special unless it is for his actions and deeds. The prophet even told Fatima that there is no free ticket to her to paradise, just because she is the daughter of the prophet, so what makes any one think that he or she has privileges? Prophet wiped the privileges completely, as it is arrogant to claim such status, and God does not like it because arrogance messes with his peaceful creation.

Prophet appointed Bilal to the highest position to call Muslims to prayers to shut the arrogant ones that he was a slave; he knocked out the vanity from the wealthy and asked them all to stand in the same line no matter who it was, he liberated women from a chattel (Woman was still a Chattel even in the US until 150 years ago) to a free individual who is free to marry, divorce, own the property and business; and he said all will do the fasting to imbue a sense of humility. And remember he made Zakat proportionate so all can contribute proportionately. Did he make the Hajj a requirement for all? Heavens no, and this is the only thing that is not mandatory, because of the affordability factor. Islam is never against making money and getting rich as long as you are fair and just to the resources that make you rich.

As a Sunni, I implore fellow Muslims to learn to respect each other's traditions and belief. There is no point in proving each other wrong. Just follow the guidance of Allah and the Prophet - be good to fellow beings. Start going to each other's place of worship and see the devotion each group has in the way they pray. I am blessed to have been in every Masjid including Kaaba, Masjid Nabwi, Masjid Aqsa and Bait-al-Muqaddas, I have prayed and iftaared regularly in Bohra, WD Muhammad, Ahmadiyya, Shia, Sunni, and just about every traditions with the exception of Ismaili Jamat Khana. Insha Allah, God may fulfill me with that wish. I have been there, but never been a part of their prayers, however and whatever it may be. Knocking prejudice out towards fellow Muslims is peaceful, try it, you may cherish it. Alhamdu Lillah, I walk my talk.

Insha Allah, we will do more intra-faith dialogue and learn to respect each other for what we believe, and not get hell bent on proving and denying each other's faith. I will do my personal share of work in bringing unity for common goodness. All it takes is more of us to take the stand and hold such meetings and learn about each other for creating a better world. (Q49:13).

Mike Ghouse is a speaker, thinker and a writer on pluralism, politics, peace, Islam, Israel, India, interfaith, and cohesion at work and social settings. He is committed to building a Cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day at http://www.TheGhousediary.com. Mike has a strong presence on national and local TV, Radio and Print Media. He is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity show on Fox TV, and a commentator on national radio networks, he contributes weekly to the Texas Faith Column at Dallas Morning News, fortnightly at Huffington post, and several other periodicals across the world. His personal site http://www.MikeGhouse.net indexes everything you want to know about him.

[ghulam muhammed]

‘Shoulder to Shoulder Movement’ for joint Shia-Sunni Eid prayers

New Delhi: For the first time, on the occasion of Eid Ul Fitar, devout from Shia and Sunni sects are set to offer Eid prayers together at the congregation at Jamia Millia Islamia here on Saturday, the Eid day.

The All India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat has extended its support for the event.

The extraordinary event to be held at the inner courtyard of the Jama Masjid, Jamia Milia Islamia, is part of the ‘Shoulder to Shoulder Movement’, an initiative conceived by a group of friends in Jamia Nagar in the back drop of growing hostility between the two sects in West Asia.

“As everyone knows that ISIS is targeting Shias and their mosques in West Asia, which is very painful to see. So our group of friends conceived this idea to organize joint Eid prayers, in which Muslims from both Sunni and Shia sect will participate,” one of the organisers said.

“The All India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat too has extended its full support and they are helping us in getting the desired contact persons who can make this initiative a success. We want to deliver a global message that yes, Shia and Sunni live in harmony and brotherhood,” another organizer Mazin Khan told TwoCircles.net.

The prayers will be held on Saturday, July 18, in the inner courtyard of Jama Masjid, Jamia Millia Islamia here at 7:30 am.



http://twocircles.net/2015jul17/1437154 ... aqwcc8w9LN

[Al-Noor]

I am sorry to say this but it is important for all to know, I am personally active on shia and sunni forums and what I found is shia are most hypocrite people though they have knowledge and books from Imam and all but personally they are crook and they will not miss a chance to take a dig against any one including Imam and Prophets(s). they think they are chosen one and they have rights to enter jannah while on other hand I found sunnis are comparatively humble and more understanding they will never try to disrespect any Imam or prophet and they dont have any pride.

but yeah again sunnis are missing the knowledge and Imamat concept. very weird situation in Islamic world, but when ever Imam returns I aam pretty sure more sunnis will follow him than shia, and shia will be those who will ditch him and mock and laugh on him though right now they are shedding crocodile tears but they will be the one who will forsake Imam. and no coming of Imam is not far in fact by will of ALLAH our generation will see Imam coming Inshallah.


From siffin to karbala shia have forsaken Imamain and I wont be surprise that this will happen again.

[SBM]

An Noor
Just like typical pundit, use the wide brush to label a community.
I have work and still work with Shias and Sunni community and we hold joint events.
As per your comment that Shias think they are chosen one Have you asked that question of Imam Bukhari of Jamia Masjid in New Delhi who decided to do Tajpooshi of his son and he himself was chosen by his late father. Have you asked this question to the CUSTODIAN OF TWO HOLY MOSQUES in Saudi Arabia. Have you noticed thru your blinders how the Rulers of SUNNI ruled MUSLIM COUNTRIES choose their head who in turn appoint the head of different Masaajids in their country
Just to refresh you memory the only true democracy in Theocratic Muslim Wold is in Iran a Shia ruled Country, a country which in not puppet in the hands of their Masters in Washington.
So get real, both side have their Talibans in their fold.

[Al-Noor]

An Noor
Just like typical pundit, use the wide brush to label a community.
I have work and still work with Shias and Sunni community and we hold joint events.
As per your comment that Shias think they are chosen one Have you asked that question of Imam Bukhari of Jamia Masjid in New Delhi who decided to do Tajpooshi of his son and he himself was chosen by his late father. Have you asked this question to the CUSTODIAN OF TWO HOLY MOSQUES in Saudi Arabia. Have you noticed thru your blinders how the Rulers of SUNNI ruled MUSLIM COUNTRIES choose their head who in turn appoint the head of different Masaajids in their country
Just to refresh you memory the only true democracy in Theocratic Muslim Wold is in Iran a Shia ruled Country, a country which in not puppet in the hands of their Masters in Washington.
So get real, both side have their Talibans in their fold.

Read again Mr SBM it is always not all but few ...


From siffin to karbala shia have forsaken Imamain and I wont be surprise that this will happen again.

[Muslim First]

but yeah again sunnis are missing the knowledge and Imamat concept.

Imamat concept was considered innovation for long time and took time to jell in the mind of minority. Imam Jafar openly taught in Madina and many of his student did not become Sunni.

Sunni means followers of Quran and Sunna of Prophet. Prophet, Hz Ali, imam Hassan and Hussein were neither Sunni nor Shia. They were just Muslim.

[Muslim First]

but yeah again sunnis are missing the knowledge and Imamat concept.

Imamat concept was considered innovation for long time and took time to jell in the mind of minority. Imam Jafar openly taught in Madina and many of his student did not become Sunni.

Sunni means followers of Quran and Sunna of Prophet. Prophet, Hz Ali, imam Hassan and Hussein were neither Sunni nor Shia. They were just Muslim.

Correction

Imamat concept was considered innovation for long time and took time to jell in the mind of minority. Imam Jafar openly taught in Madina and many of his student did not become Shia.

[ghulam muhammed]

Shia-Sunni 'divide growing' among British Muslims: Report

LONDON: Radical preachers within the UK's minority Shia and majority Sunni communities have caused growing religious sectarianism within the country's Muslim community, according to a media report.

Of the 3 million Muslims in the UK, about 2.3 million identify as Sunni, compared with 300,000 Shias, or 5 per cent of the total.

According to an investigation by 'The Times' newspaper, the divide is being widened by radical preachers on both sides.

"Our faith doesn't condone takfir [excommunication] of another. It is against Prophetic tradition and if we follow the same path as the Middle East, where sectarianism has fuelled conflict, we are in trouble," Qari Muhammad Asim, a leading Sunni voice and imam at the Makkah mosque in Leeds, told the newspaper.

Sayed Ammar Nakshwani, one of the world's leading Shia clerics, said that he recently left the UK for the US after enduring years of intimidation from hardline Sunnis who allegedly threatened his life, followed his parents and vandalised his car.

Sheikh Ahmed Haneef, a Shia imam in London, called for 24-hour police protection for Shia mosques.

Most British Shias have roots in Iran, Iraq, Azer-baijan or Bahrain.

Sunnis make up the vast majority of Muslims worldwide. The sectarian atmosphere in the UK is being fuelled by propaganda that depicts the war in Syria as a battle between Sunni rebels and the Shia-led Assad regime.

The regional power struggle between the Sunni kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Shia republic of Iran has been identified as another factor.

Superintendent Paul Giannasi, the UK's national police spokesperson, urged victims to report incidents: "We know that many hate crimes are not reported to the police and our communities say that this type of hate crime is among the least likely to come to our attention."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 486758.cms

[ghulam muhammed]

Fighting sectarianism in Islam

Britain's first Muslim minister decries the Sunni-Shia divide.

Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, a Muslim Conservative peer in the House of Lords, has been a staunch defender of religious freedom and a critic of radical secularism in Britain. In a recent speech she pleaded for tolerance amongst Muslims.

Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, a Conservative peer in the House of Lords, is best known for being the first Muslim to serve in a British cabinet. In August 2014 she resigned from the Cameron Government over its “morally indefensible” policy on Gaza. This is an excerpt from a speech she gave earlier this year in the Sultan Qaboos Grand Mosque, in Muscat, Oman.

- See more at: http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/vie ... lNth0.dpuf

[dawedaar]

In the end, nobody gives 2 cent about religion or spirituality. Everybody is furthering their own agenda. Everybody wants power and influence. The bohra community is not an exception I guess!

Shia-Sunni 'divide growing' among British Muslims: Report

LONDON: Radical preachers within the UK's minority Shia and majority Sunni communities have caused growing religious sectarianism within the country's Muslim community, according to a media report.

Of the 3 million Muslims in the UK, about 2.3 million identify as Sunni, compared with 300,000 Shias, or 5 per cent of the total.

According to an investigation by 'The Times' newspaper, the divide is being widened by radical preachers on both sides.

"Our faith doesn't condone takfir [excommunication] of another. It is against Prophetic tradition and if we follow the same path as the Middle East, where sectarianism has fuelled conflict, we are in trouble," Qari Muhammad Asim, a leading Sunni voice and imam at the Makkah mosque in Leeds, told the newspaper.

Sayed Ammar Nakshwani, one of the world's leading Shia clerics, said that he recently left the UK for the US after enduring years of intimidation from hardline Sunnis who allegedly threatened his life, followed his parents and vandalised his car.

Sheikh Ahmed Haneef, a Shia imam in London, called for 24-hour police protection for Shia mosques.

Most British Shias have roots in Iran, Iraq, Azer-baijan or Bahrain.

Sunnis make up the vast majority of Muslims worldwide. The sectarian atmosphere in the UK is being fuelled by propaganda that depicts the war in Syria as a battle between Sunni rebels and the Shia-led Assad regime.

The regional power struggle between the Sunni kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Shia republic of Iran has been identified as another factor.

Superintendent Paul Giannasi, the UK's national police spokesperson, urged victims to report incidents: "We know that many hate crimes are not reported to the police and our communities say that this type of hate crime is among the least likely to come to our attention."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 486758.cms

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro dawedaar,

I agree with you as unfortunately that is the sad state of religion today.

In the end, nobody gives 2 cent about religion or spirituality. Everybody is furthering their own agenda. Everybody wants power and influence. The bohra community is not an exception I guess!

[ghulam muhammed]

The Young and the Restless: Some Sunnis and Shiites Are Tired of Hating

Tired of discord, young Sunnis side-by-side with young Shiites are coming out to publicly say "enough"

The two main sects within Islam are not at all like the various sects within Christianity, or for that matter, within Judaism. Sunnis hate Shiites and Shiites hate Sunnis!

Many Sunni Muslims deem Shiite Muslims as heretics, as people who deny fundamental principles of Islam. Shiites see Sunnis the exact same way. And ever since the middle 7th century, each side has taught and preached that the other side is wrong and that they are practicing a corrupt form of Islam. It is because the other side is practicing corrupted Islam that the true followers (whichever side that is) believe it is their obligation to teach about the denial and the destruction of the other.

It all began with the death of Mohammed in 632.

And then, every once in a while, Sunni or Shiite leaders pop up and announce their intention to unite the factions in order to confront a common enemy. The pitch always sounds good—but almost always falls flat. The common enemy they most often speak of is the West—specifically Israel and the United States.

If these two Muslim sects were to stop their conflict the Middle East would be a different place. Not a peaceful place, but a place with differently focused conflict. For instance, much of the tension in Syria is Shiite versus Sunni. The conflict in Yemen is Shiite versus Sunni. And the power struggle engaging Iran and Saudi Arabia is, of course, Shiite versus Sunni.

And yet, despite the conflict, every Friday over the past few weeks Shiites and Sunnis in Iraqi cities have come together in major squares throughout the country. By the tens of thousands, sometimes even by the hundreds of thousands, they have gathered united, as one voice, in protest over the current divisive situation. The slogans they are shouting and the placards they are raising call out “Sectarianism is Dead” and “Stop Stealing from Us in the Name of Religion”

Iraqis are coming together in droves, in main squares in Baghdad and Basra, to call upon their politicians to stop quarrelling and quibbling. The protesters want services—they want education, water and electricity. For years their politicians have told the citizens of Iraq that the problem in government is religious sectarianism, that it is Shiites versus Sunnis, and now the young people of Iraq are saying that they aren’t buying it any more.

Young Sunnis side-by-side with young Shiites are coming out to publicly say “enough.” They want accountability. More crucially, they want to know why ISIS has succeeded in taking over huge swathes of Iraq. In today’s world, if anything is to unite Sunnis and Shiites—it will be ISIS.

To put it succinctly, other than the West, right now, the only thing that Shiites hate more than Sunnis and Sunnis hate more than Shiites is ISIS.

The movement has begun in Iraq where the people want unity among “conventional” Muslims to fight and rid Iraq of “extremist” ISIS. Shiite militias are operating under an umbrella called Popular Mobilization Units (PMUs) while Sunni tribes are much more loosely aligned in their fight and are against ISIS more independently and tribe by tribe. In the end, through unity of forces, they might just be successful and turn their country around.

But it is a long shot. ISIS successfully sends chills and fear into the hearts of Iraqis. The fear of ISIS brutality is everywhere. While gathering in town squares as a way of protest is empowering, the fear of beheading at the hands of ISIS is still, understandably, a major disincentive to organizing, fighting and resisting. When 800 ISIS members marched into Mosul in June of last year 55,000 Iraqi police and soldiers ran away. A city of two million people collapsed into the hands of 800 ISIS members.

So, while Shiite-Sunni unity is the only real chance for success in fighting ISIS, given their ancient hatred for each other, coupled with ISIS intimidation, I don’t see Muslim unity in our immediate future. I don’t think that Muslims in the region have the gumption to do what it takes.

http://observer.com/2015/08/the-young-a ... of-hating/

[ghulam muhammed]

Shia, Sunni stand together for Eid namaz in Lucknow

On the occasion of Eid-ul-Zuha on Friday, the historic Sibtainabad Imambara was witness to a unique citizen-driven initiative called 'Shoulder to Shoulder' (S2S) where a joint Shia-Sunni namaz was performed to spread the message of universal brotherhood.

"They are those in pursuit of 'satya' (truth) and those who cherish 'satta' (power) and true religion lies in upholding truth," said Maulana Kalbe Sadiq at the historic event in which members of Shia and Sunni sects stood shoulder to shoulder to offer namaz of Eid-ul-Zuha at Sibtainabad Imambara in Lucknow on Friday. The group of volunteers came together with the objective of ending differences between the two sects of the community which often lead to bloody riots and immense loss of lives and property.

Shia cleric Maulana Sadiq, who participated in the namaz, added that he had met the highest cleric of his sect who advised him to refer to the Sunnis as one's 'jaan' (life) and 'rooh' (soul) instead of brothers and only then will the differences melt. "It is a welcome move that both sects are standing together to pray and this should be sustained and nurtured," he advised.

As per the mutual agreement, a Sunni imam Maulana Shehzad led the prayer at the Shia monument and everybody followed as per their individual manner, hands folded or otherwise. Endorsement had already been obtained from the highest religious authority Maulana Al-Sayyid Ali Al-Sistani of Iran that it was all right to offer namaz in such a way. Moreover, clerics from both sects of Islam in the city had welcomed the initiative and as word spread, people from not just the city but from across the state and country too supported the cause.

"What better homecoming could have been there for me than this," beamed Rehan Ahmad Khan, an IIT-Kharagpur engineer who works in Dubai and had come home for Eid. Three generations of the Khans were there, including Rehan's father Zahoor and son Mustafa and they were only too happy to be here. "I pledge myself to the cause of unity," said the senior most.

"We have joined hands with a view towards unity members of a community with similar faith and to promote brotherhood, which is the very soul of Islam," said Mohammad Haider, a key organizer of the event, adding that the group will take the mission forward through community service and acts that promote peace.

"All members of the community want to co-exist peacefully and progress instead of suffering because of conflict created by people who have vested interests of the nefarious kind and self-serving motives," said Atif Hanif.

A good number of believers gathered at the venue to serve the noble cause and pray to the Almighty for the spread of peace, progress and prosperity.

Started as a WhatsApp group, the initiative turned into a Facebook event that went viral soon after. Inviting people to the historic moment, S2S Facebook page reads, 'We know each other since our childhood. We shared the same classrooms, same dreams, same fears, ate from the same lunch box. We even share the same memories. But we never stood shoulder to shoulder for Eid prayers. It's time for a change.'

The organisers said, "This is the need of the hour. The clashes between the two sects give the community and the entire city a bad name. We wanted to send out a strong message for unity and what's better than beginning it with a joint prayer."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 101036.cms

[ghulam muhammed]

The myth of the 1,400 year Sunni-Shia war

The 'Sunni-Shia conflict' narrative is misguided at best and disingenuous at worst, suggests author.

Today it is increasingly common to hear talk of the existence of a "1,400 Year War" between Sunni and Shia Muslims. In this narrative, the sectarian violence of today is simply the continuation of an ancient religious conflict rooted in events which transpired in the 7th century. While some Muslims themselves have recently bought into this worldview, it would suffice to say that such beliefs represent not only a misreading of history but a complete and utter fabrication of it. While there are distinct theological differences between Sunnis and Shias, the claim that these two groups have been in a perpetual state of war and animosity throughout their existence is an absurd falsehood.

The conflict now brewing between certain Sunni and Shia political factions in the Middle East today has little or nothing to do with religious differences and everything to do with modern identity politics. Just as in Rwanda, Western powers and their local allies have sought to exacerbate these false divisions in order to perpetuate conflict and maintain a Middle East which is at once thoroughly divided and incapable of asserting itself.

FULL ARTICLE :-

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 68151.html

[ghulam muhammed]

Muhammad Bin Salman’s demand of eradicating Shias from Pakistan left leaders astonished

Shiite News: Saudi Arabian Prince and the current Defense Minister Muhammad Bin Salman made a unique demand from Pakistani leadership. He asked the Pakistani rulers to eradicate Shias from Pakistan and take as much financial aid as they want, in this regard.

Senior governmental sources told that the deputy crown Prince of Saudi Arabia made this demand during his recent visit that they were ready to provide any kind of help to the government of Pakistan for eradicating Shia Muslims from the country.

However, the government sources told, senior leadership clearly refused the Prince’s demand and said that Pakistan was not an Arab state. Shias and Sunnis both leave peacefully here and Shias have played an important role in the establishment and development of the country. Leadership’s response to the foolish demand of the Saudi prince is appreciable.

Muhammad Bin Salman needs to be reminded of the fact that more than fifty million Shia Muslims live in Pakistan whereas a hundred million Barelvi Muslims are also a part of this country. Therefore, the Prince should not dream about Saudi influence in Pakistan on the basis of just 20-30 million Salafi and Deobandis. He should also be reminded that both Shias and Sunnis unitedly struggle for the establishment of Pakistan and the Quaid of this country was a Shia Muslim whereas the then Deobandi leadership, in unison with Congress, was declaring Pakistan as Kaafiristan and Quaid e Azam as Kaffir e Azam. Pakistan is not going to become a tool at the hands of Saudi Arabia and suffer because of any conspiracy.

http://www.shiitenews.org/index.php/pak ... astonished

[ghulam muhammed]

Sectarian splits are widening in Islam and lessening in Christianity

ONE OF this week’s most arresting news photographs featured Pope Francis in smiling conversation with President Hassan Rouhani of Iran, who is touring Europe in the hope of asserting his country’s emergence from international isolation. The Iranian visitor asked for the pontiff’s prayers, and the Vatican announced afterwards that “common spiritual values” emerged during the conversation. It was the first meeting between a pope and an Iranian president since 1999.

A 40-minute chat, with interpreters, probably wasn’t long enough for much investigation of those shared sensibilities. But among observers of the world of religion it has often been suggested that Islam’s Shia-Sunni split corresponds in certain ways with the Catholic-Protestant divide in Christendom. Of course, as with any broad generalisation about religion, you can’t push it too far.

But Vali Nasr, an Iranian-American scholar-cum-diplomat who is a leading world authority on Shia Islam, finds the parallel quite striking. As he has argued, both Shia Muslims and Catholics have a respect for clerical authority and for theological tradition as it has evolved over time; that is in contrast with the stress put by many Sunnis, and Protestants, on going back to the original divine revelation and ignoring whatever came later.

In the Shia tradition, as in the Catholic one, there is a long line of succession through which sacred authority is thought to have been transferred over the centuries. Both among the Shias and the Catholics, there is emphasis on the idea of martyrdom leading to redemption. Some images of the slain Ali, whose murder in 680 is a primordial event for Shias, bear at least a passing resemblance to Christian depictions of Jesus Christ.

Of course, you can find points of similarity between any pair of religions and cultures if you look hard enough and set aside the major differences. But John Allen, a commentator on Vatican affairs, has argued that Catholics and Shias have geopolitical reasons for keeping in touch, as well as the religious and cultural reasons cited by Mr Nasr.

When it looks at Syria, the Vatican is instinctively protective of the Iranian-backed Assad regime, because it fears that the government’s overthrow by Sunni militants would spell doom for Christians. (That has not prevented some individual Catholic priests speaking out bravely against the Syrian regime’s atrocities.)

In September 2013, the Holy See strongly resisted American threats to bomb government forces in Syria. Then, at least, the Iranians had good reason to feel grateful to the Vatican. Another point is that wherever fundamentalist Sunnis (from conservative monarchs to populist Muslim Brothers) have held power, they have generally been anti-Shia and anti-Christian in equal measure.

But there is one big difference between intra-Muslim and intra-Christian divisions. The former are tending to grow wider, as tension between Iran and Saudi Arabia exacerbates the sectarian chasm in every other place where different forms of Islam coincide, from the civil-war zones of Syria and Yemen to the streets of Beirut and Islamabad.

Among Christian leaders, meanwhile, it is generally agreed that everything should be done to overcome division. As well as welcoming his Iranian guest, Pope Francis announced this week that he would go to Sweden in October to attend the start of a year of commemorations of the religious Reformation initiated by Martin Luther on October 31, 1517. In some ways, that is an extraordinary thing for a pope to be celebrating; the fact that the Vatican lost its sway over northern Europe, and blood-letting between Catholics and Lutherans convulsed the centre of Europe for a couple of centuries.

But a joint reflection by Catholic and Lutheran theologians has come up with an elegant way in which both churches can mark the event; it stresses that Luther’s original intention was to reform Catholicism from within, not to start a new church; and that everybody can agree that some reform was needed.

In the same sort of spirit, Shia and Sunni theologians get together from time to time and stress that whatever their differences, they recognise one another as Muslims and monotheists; but at the moment Islam's sectarian hotheads seem to be making a much louder noise. If the pope and Mr Rouhani had a bit longer together, they might usefully have reflected on how people can be persuaded to stop killing one another because they have different interpretations of events in sacred history that took place long, long ago.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/ ... rotestants

[ghulam muhammed]

Celebrating Hazrat Ali in Bangalore

I was overwhelmed to be invited to a program held on the 21st of April amidst special guests from Iraq who are in Bangalore with a message of love for humanity and of peace and harmony for the world, and a heart full of love for India for its spiritual and cultural richness. Grace, dignity and gentleness marked the occasion, as a team of religious scholars from the Holy Shrines in Iraq met a gathering of journalists to share their joy about the cultural festival being held to coincide with the birth anniversary celebrations of Hazrat Ali Ibn Abi Talib (a.s) from April 22 to 25, 2016 in Bangalore.

“Imam Ali stood for humanity. His values of love , etiquette, grace, manners and gentleness are a model for the world. Remembering his virtues, we hope to mingle the cultural and spiritual richness of India and Iraq through this four-day festival,” said Aga Sultan, convenor, who explained the contents of the festival, which include a book exhibition, Quran recitation sessions, recitation of poetry, religious lectures and quiz contests. Religious scholars from the Holy Shrines in Iraq, Maulana Sheikh Ali Asadi from the Holy Shrine of Hazrat Abbas, Maulana Sheikh Rafid, from the Holy Shrine of Imam Husain and Maulana Sheikh Qasim from the Holy Shrine of Kazmain, also were present at the program.

The festival to be held at Masjid-e-Askari and Bab ul-Hawaej Hazrat Abul Fazlil Abbas, Sir Mirza Ismail Nagar, Bangalore, hopes to bring together people in a spirit of brotherhood and unity. This is the fourth such annual cultural festival, and a host of scholars like Dr Syed Kalbe Sadiq, Vice-President, All-India Muslim Personal Law Board, Maulana Syed Hameedul Hasan, Lucknow, Maulana Syed Kalbe Rushaid Rizvi, New Delhi, Dr M. H. Rahman, Founder, Sufi Peace Foundation, New Delhi, Maulana Syed Habeeb Hyder and Maulana Syed Ahmed Ali Abedi, Mumbai are some of the scholars who will arrive for the festival.

A special highlight of the festival will be bringing together Sunni and Shia scholars on a common platform on April 23, where the speakers will stress the unity of humankind, peace and harmony. Maulana Mufti Ashraf Ali , Maulana Dr Syed Kalbe Sadiq, Maulana Sheikh Al Asadi and Maulana Syed Rifae will share their wisdom.

As I departed from the conference, the beautiful saying: Man Kunto Maula
Fa haaza Ali-un maula (‘To whom I am the master, Ali is the master’) kept ringing in my heart! Rays of hope, unity, harmony and peace were beginning to spread all around. I pray the festival brings together people from different traditions together in a bond of love and peace…virtues and principles that Imam Ali (a.s) stood for!

(For more details about the festival, get in touch with Aga Sultan: 9844041210 Email aga_sultan1@yahoo.com)

http://twocircles.net/2016apr21/1461248 ... xlW3fl97IU