Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
aambohree
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:45 pm

Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#1

Unread post by aambohree » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:53 am

Dear Mr. Adam/Saif53 and brothers,
I have been reading your replies for quite some time and expect to receive your replies on the following points (without running around the bush) which I feel is either ignorantly (or conveniently? ) being ducked at your end.
1. We always hear that do not visit the so called munafikeen sites. Based on your responses, it appears that this is a munafikeen site, so are you all posting here with the RAZA or on your own and thereby breaking your misak by dis-obeying the guidelines of our religious authorities
2. Last time the so called break-away group declared the Schedule for Ashara well in advance before the day of Eid-e-Gadeer(citing convenience of people to plan their travel). There was a big cry from this side saying this is big deviation from the policy of Burhanuddin Maula who used to generally declare the venue of Ashara on E-d-e-gadeer. It was termed that it was disrespect to Burhanuddin maula by deeming that he did not care for comfort of mumineen by not announcing the Ashara dates in advance.
3. Since Ashara dates were announced before Eid-E-gadeer by both sides, so does it mean that both are demeaning the practice of Burhanudding maula?
4.Always all events and importantly Ashara venues were announced by Burhanudding Maula by terming as be-Ilam-illah he wa imame waliyehe(I do not know the real words; then why was this terming Ilam-illah he wa imame waliyehe missed out in this years announcement. Was it a slip of tounge or an error of the speech writer?

I expect to have your responses on above with an affirmative YES or NO as these are simple queries.
WS

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#2

Unread post by Al-Noor » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:02 am

Very valid questions, no reply? kaha gaye saare bohra abde?

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#3

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:08 pm

Al-Noor wrote:Very valid questions, no reply? kaha gaye saare bohra abde?
On their way to Houston

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#4

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:52 am

Abdes please try to comprehend this picture message....
Attachments
12087990_409568982574868_1544716180242052118_n.jpg

aambohree
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:45 pm

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#5

Unread post by aambohree » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:55 am

Dear Mr.Saif53
It is surprising to see that you enough time to scroll through various posts and seek answers to your specific points but do not bother to take time for replying to specific questions that are addressed to you in person seeking only a yes or no???

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#6

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:38 am

I dont think they will reply, I am disgust with these hypocrite abdes at such a level now that I cant eat with them in same thaal, they stink lies and they smile lies and talk lies. I am so grateful that my entire family is not in abde category at all.

aambohree
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:45 pm

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#7

Unread post by aambohree » Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:05 pm

Dear Mr. Saif53
It is difficult to digest that you have ample time to scroll topics after topics and its posts and run around seeking an answer to your own questions but Mr Saif53 you do not have the time to post a simple reply that too in simple words of YES or NO to questions that are directed to you and brethren. One can see themselves that the other forum members are politely reminding you in other posts( where you expect an answer from others to your questions or you make post) that there is a dedicated topic where your replies are also awaited since long.

The reason I am requesting an answer from you under this topic and not reaching out to your posts in other topics is to avoid getting your VALUABLE replies lost in the piles of posts which may not be relevant to this question.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#8

Unread post by Adam » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:33 pm

@aambohree
The reason I haven't answered is because your questions don't seem too fundamentally important. But since you feel so much for it, here are my answers. Disclaimer: My Opinions ONLY.

1. The Misaq says that if I find out anyone has broken the misaq, then I must convey it to the Dai. Doesn't say anything about what you said.

2. Who cried out about doing Fasal well in advance? Doing Fasal of Ashara isn't a fundamental issue. If KQ wanted to do it, so be it.
What is a fundamental issue is, Nass, Tawqeef, False interpretation, allowing forms of interest disallowed by Duat, not wearing Rida etc.
That's a fundamental "deviation from the policy of Burhanuddin Maula".

3. No. Read above.

4. Can you send me the audio pls. I don't seem to have it in order to reconfirm.
But, besides that, saying it, or not saying it, doesn't make a "fundamental" difference. It is the belief that EVERYTHING the Dai says is by the inspiration and Ilhaam of the Imam. So whether he says "be ilhaam ..." or not, doesn't make any difference.

Your questions aren't about fundamentals.
And you're really getting too excited about small stuff - you should however worry about the big MAJOR blunders KQ has made and is making in the present. Those are fundamentals. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Just to clarify your position, Are you a follower of the 52nd Dai?

Take care

aambohree
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:45 pm

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#9

Unread post by aambohree » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:46 pm

Mr.Adam, the basic of a good conversation starts with a proper salutation of Mr/Mrs. or may be bhai/behen and not with @.
@ is the first insight that i get to see on entering into a discussion with you .
Even though you were addressed with proper salutation, you did not take the courtesy to return the favour.Do you treat this also as a small stuff or fundamentals of a decent conversation.

After reading your reply all i can gauge is that your idea or fundamental is to just round the bush without answering directly. After your initial replies i do not think there is much or would rather say any space left for a constructive discussion.

Anyway i have provided my answers to your points which you can see below.
KH
Adam wrote:@aambohree
The reason I haven't answered is because your questions don't seem too fundamentally important. But since you feel so much for it, here are my answers. Disclaimer: My Opinions ONLY.

1. The Misaq says that if I find out anyone has broken the misaq, then I must convey it to the Dai. Doesn't say anything about what you said.
But you did not answer the simple query in a straight forward YES or No that as per your own words this site has its foundation built on the criticism of dawat and its principles, then are you here on your own or with raza of your saheb. When today's bohra generation can be seen flocking to seek raza for every other thing they do, then do you still think people conversant with todays generation of bohras are so naive to believe that you are on this website defending your sect on your own and without raza?Just answer in a yes or no if you are here on your own or with raza. The dissection of your yes or no can be followed by justifications thereafter.You say that "Misaq says that if I find out anyone has broken the misaq, then I must convey it to the Dai." so now you converse here with many people who despite being on headcount of your side but post here. So now you go to the dai and inform him - So what did the Dai say-Go and speak to them on the munafikeen forum?


2. Who cried out about doing Fasal well in advance? Doing Fasal of Ashara isn't a fundamental issue. If KQ wanted to do it, so be it.

Oh really. This is news since your group also pronounced this years ashara in advance, so was it a deviation from predecesor's policy?what one can see with naked eye that every act however miniscule in nature of the dai is linked/portrayed to the functioning style of predecessor then why a deviation from the past trend?
What is a fundamental issue is, Nass, Tawqeef, False interpretation, allowing forms of interest disallowed by Duat, not wearing Rida etc.
Not wearing rida?I do not know your age, but if you are a young man in the 20-30 then do ask your elders who have seen the early times of 52nd dai and 51st dai and check if it was a rida or a totally different kind of viel similar to the full body length pullover called as kheis or as per the local area tradition.
And wait, why do not you request the middle eastern bohras(not the one migrating to mid east for work from indian sub-continent or elsewhere) to do away with their black veil called abaya and sport the colourful rida, also ask their men to leave aside their white pullover called thobe and sport the saya kurta payjama?
Regarding interest do search through the history and this forum where you can find details of how bohra men had given loan on interest to the priesthood and also filed cases for same. I would request senior forum members if they can help by providing proper links for this episode

That's a fundamental "deviation from the policy of Burhanuddin Maula".
Read the justifications above
3. No. Read above.
OK so you want to say a NO for this point and agree that the dayes of muharram sermons can be announced by the dai(whatever sect it be) as per their own convenience
4. Can you send me the audio pls. I don't seem to have it in order to reconfirm.
I would request you to get in touch with your fellow people and obtain an audio or may be even a video for the same.Based on your pick and choose responses, i am confident that you can obtain(or may be even in possesion of same) the copy of this years muharram venue decleration. The reasonf or being confident stems from the your responses on various posts on this forum wherein to prove your point you could dive to depths greater than the depth of oceans like you did in case to justify the grandeur and walking of darbans in dais procession.
This point of Ilham during announcement for muharram venue this year was also mentioned by a fellow member (i think AgnosticIndian) on this forum, that time also you did conveniently skipped the query

But, besides that, saying it, or not saying it, doesn't make a "fundamental" difference. It is the belief that EVERYTHING the Dai says is by the inspiration and Ilhaam of the Imam. So whether he says "be ilhaam ..." or not, doesn't make any difference.
Any logical person conversant with the bohra lifestyle will never agree with your contention. When a small time amil or mulla every now and then does not forget to say that he says with the raza of Dai then how can a Dai who cannot cannot move an inch without the ilham from imam on key activities forgets to mention the authority in their major announcements.
Your questions aren't about fundamentals.
And you're really getting too excited about small stuff - you should however worry about the big MAJOR blunders KQ has made and is making in the present. Those are fundamentals. Don't sweat the small stuff.
As per your sparse logic one should not worry about the smaller stuff.Consider an example that a student attending classes for basic physics curiously enquires the tutor like Mr Adam that what is an atom or proton or ion etc. and you being the tutor instructing the student to forget about the smaller stuffs like atom or neutron or ion(which are fundamentals) and just shove down ones throat(without understanding) that E=MC2 which is tutors pick for subject
Just to clarify your position, Are you a follower of the 52nd Dai?
Yes i followed the dai of my time till they left for their heavenly abode. Hold on, i know what your next question is gonna be about...........
Take care

Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#10

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:24 am

Great rebuttal by Br.Aambohrie to Adam. Kudos

Adam , your ruse has been decimated significantly by the reply Aambohree has given you. If you have any self esteem left you should not bother to come back on this forum (i doubt you had any to begin with).
Infact DMBS's baseless claims has become more apparent by your irrelevant jargon you vomit on this forum.
I get the feeling that you , like your master (DMBS), are suffering from a bad case of verbal diarrhea.

DMBS = Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhai Saheb

saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#11

Unread post by saminaben » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:02 pm

Why attack Adam saif53 on self esteem and chase him out of this forum community? Is this any different from MS chasing people out of bohra masjids and raudat Tahera. Cyber bullying is a real thing - it's no defense against real life bullying that I admit happens in MS duniya

SBM
Posts: 6241
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#12

Unread post by SBM » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:26 pm

saminaben wrote:Why attack Adam saif53 on self esteem and chase him out of this forum community? Is this any different from MS chasing people out of bohra masjids and raudat Tahera. Cyber bullying is a real thing - it's no defense against real life bullying that I admit happens in MS duniya
Thank you Saminaben here is my response posted elsewhere

This forum welcomes everyone and no one has a right to ask anyone not to visit. If Abdes/Amtes are visiting this forum despite a fatwa from SMS they should be welcome instead of asking them NOT TO VISIT due to non RAZA,
I think Abdes/Amtes who are visiting and posting should be welcome here and should be applauded for their courage to post and taking risk.
NO MISAK related question should be asked of them
Enough is Enough discouraging followers of SMS to come and express their opinion

Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#13

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:08 am

Just to clarify my stand ..
I do not care whether taking Raza or No from DMBS is a prerequisite to visit this Forum ...
I just feel that once in a while Adam should be made to realize that people on this forum are not Dumb. They are fed up of his "round the bush" posts

He is more then welcome to read the posts (i am sure many of his friends clandestinely read this forum)
But if he has nothing informative to contribute to this forum, then he is better off just reading it and not posting false praises of his Circus Ring Master DMBS.

Oh and By the way if one is under the impression that Adam is just one person, and that he will get easily bullied by anyone here, then he/she are grossly mistaken ...Adam is a team of well paid professionals in Jamia/Kothar/Badrimahal headed by some Shehzada , whose sole purpose is to scout these forums and then reply nonsense to derail intelligent conversations just to fulfill their agenda.

Unlike DMBS , I do believe in Freedom of Speech and sensible debates, but eradication of "Noise Pollution" is what my intent was :evil:

Followers of DMBS should learn a thing or two from folks like saminaben and SBM .
If ever Adam and his like find out who SBM and saminaben are, they would haraas them to death. But ppl who do not follow DMBS have such big hearts , they allow ppl like Adam and are willing to listen to his nonsense.
DMBS = Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhai Saheb

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
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Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#14

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:28 am

agree with saminaben and SBM and others who support freedom of expression on this forum. I am thankful to Adam for writing on this forum whichever topic he chooses to answer. everyone brings some sort of new perspective to discussion. lets keep the discussion as civil as possible with a little bit room for humor for lighter conversations.

lets not get all paranoid with whats happening to bohra community. opressors and rebels will remain till end of time. we are visitors to this forum. at one point or another we would fade away. lets not get all personal and loose temper at slightest disagreement.

SBM
Posts: 6241
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#15

Unread post by SBM » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:23 pm

If ever Adam and his like find out who SBM and saminaben are, they would haraas them to death
Moeiz Bhai
Adam aka Saif 53 aka Taha Hakimuddin knows my id very well but has no guts to come after me. Unlike others I am blessed to have family members who are die hard abde as well out of the cult still we are all together and remain united.

Adam
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Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#16

Unread post by Adam » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:50 am

Mr. aambohree
Salaam

I'm not the one that beats around the bush. I always prefer sticking to directl Q & A's without diverting topics. Unlike Proggies on this group.

Let me try again:
1. NO. As in no such thing mentioned in the Misaq. Hence I haven't had the need to seek for visiting this forum. I'm here on my own position.

2. NO. I'll repeat. There''s no fundamental issue in announcing in advance. I don't see the issue here.
KQ might as well advance his Ashara in Thane in advance for the next 10 years. Becasue that's the only place he's going to be able to be in.

3. NO.

4. YES. All actions of the Dai are by Ilhaam.

To clarify my Fundamental position.
Your example of Protons and Nuetrons are in fact the FUNDAMENTALS.
Only once you understand that, should you move to other stuff.
There's no point discussing E=MC2 without knowing the fundamentals. Hence, you just proved the validity of my point.

To be a Dawoodi Bohra Muslim means, you must believe in the Imam, Dai of the time, by Nass and Tawwqeef.
That means, Iman, Islaam, Nass, are all fundamentals.
Once that is undertsood, you move to second level items.

byculla
Posts: 54
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Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#17

Unread post by byculla » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:37 am

Adam wrote:Mr. aambohree
1. NO. As in no such thing mentioned in the Misaq. Hence I haven't had the need to seek for visiting this forum. I'm here on my own position.
Adam - based on what I recollect in misaq sermon - "Je shaks imam ya imam na dai ni adawat kare - pachi ye nazdeek wala hoi ya dur wala hoi - tame ehna saathe waat karine - ya ishara si - koi bhi tareh si milaap to nahi rakho"

If somebody opposes Imam or his dai - whether he is close to you or not - you will not talk or maintain contact with that person in anyway. So it is a part of misaq. If you are truly not here with the raza of Mufaddal bs then you have broken your misaq to him - because you believe most people here do adawat of your mola.

If you post here with raza of Mufaddal bs (which most of us here believe) then its fine - but not sure whats the big deal about acknowledging it. If you don't want to acknowledge it then you can be quiet. At least don't lie.

SBM
Posts: 6241
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#18

Unread post by SBM » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:09 am

Adam
4. YES. All actions of the Dai are by Ilhaam.
So did SMB had Ilhaam of creating riots in India when he publicly abused Sunnis and then did he get Ilhaam to publicly apologize.
Does the current Dai has Ilhaam to go to Justice Patel and plead his case to be rightful successor to Daiship.
Seems like the Dai is following the wrong Imam who is giving him wrong ILHAAMS

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#19

Unread post by progticide » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:43 am

SBM wrote:[NO MISAK related question should be asked of them
@SBM
For once, I agree with you on this point. Misaaq related questions are afterall the copyright of Munkar & Nakeer. DBs already have their spiritual counsel appointed to answer for them when the Misaaq case comes up for hearing in the hereafter.


But what about you? You surely will have a blast of a Lifetime (actually Deathtime) when they come to visit in that dark cramped underground cell. :D

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#20

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:06 am

Hey lets stop beating misaak terms to question abdes on this forum .. abdes and anyone else who is taking these misaak are breaking many conditions at drop of hat ... as long as .. one is a paying member of kothar ... misaak is not broken .. also when someone speaks up the truth, questions deceptive acts of kothari agents or presents a POV in public which may affect or cause some sort of rebel against these thugs .. then misaak is broken .. then again .. one can pay monies .. apologise .. beg ... crawl, bend, lick (figuratively) to get back into good books of these thugs ..

in the grave .. they have rukku chitthi .. which is thier passport to jannat ... these maulaas have guaranteed jannat tour .. for which abdes have been paying all thier lives .. it is a fair business deal ... c'mon

anajmi
Posts: 13402
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Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:41 am

DBs already have their spiritual counsel appointed to answer for them when the Misaaq case comes up for hearing in the hereafter.
Here is another delusion that the DBs live under. This is complete and total ignorance of the Quran and the deen of Islam. Allah says in the Quran that on the day of judgment each one will have to answer for his or her own deeds. No one will be able to come to anyone's aid. And here these abde idiots are over riding the Quran itself!!

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#22

Unread post by Adam » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:34 pm

byculla wrote:
Adam wrote:Mr. aambohree
1. NO. As in no such thing mentioned in the Misaq. Hence I haven't had the need to seek for visiting this forum. I'm here on my own position.
Adam - based on what I recollect in misaq sermon - "Je shaks imam ya imam na dai ni adawat kare - pachi ye nazdeek wala hoi ya dur wala hoi - tame ehna saathe waat karine - ya ishara si - koi bhi tareh si milaap to nahi rakho"

"Milaap" means relationship, connection. It means, that if a person has broken their Misaq, all "relationship" should seize. Whether family or friend. This is also confirmed in Imam Zayn al Abedeen's Dua.

I do not have any such with the enemies of the Dai on the Forum. I have made that very clear, haven't I?

And NO. As i've said before. I am here on my own decision. The opinions posted are mine only.

Thanks



[/color]

byculla
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:40 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#23

Unread post by byculla » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:11 am

Adam wrote:
byculla wrote:
"Milaap" means relationship, connection. It means, that if a person has broken their Misaq, all "relationship" should seize. Whether family or friend. This is also confirmed in Imam Zayn al Abedeen's Dua.
[/color]
Completely Incorrect.

Milaap in this context means contact in any form - and misaaq makes it clear In any form would include "engaging with people who do adawat with your mola" on this forum. I am frankly quite surprised that you are continuing to engage with me on this topic.

The conditions in misaq pertaining to dealing with (1) Imam or his dai's dushman and (2) Breakers of misaq are different.

The one I am quoting above is for (1) Imam or his dai's dushman (this may include people who do dushmani after taking misaq - in effect breaking misaq or it may include people who never took misaq in first place. Its irrelevant)

For (2) Breakers of misaq there are qasam of 30 haj and so forth. This is mentioned separately in misaq as far as I recollect.

Regardless of what you assert, I do believe that you are here with raza from Kothar and with specific purpose to defend Shz Mufaddal's purported nass. Sorry Adam - but with the amount of Kitabs you have at your disposal and that you quote from and other insider "sources" you claim to have - its difficult for me (and perhaps others on this forum) to believe that you are a common bohra like me. Your date of joining this forum (20th June 2011) clearly corresponds to 19th Rajab 1432. Its the same exact day on which fake public nass was done on Shz Mufaddal bs.
Last edited by byculla on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
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Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#24

Unread post by kimanumanu » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:19 am

Well spotted byculla - that would be quite a coincidence if it was totally unintended.

SBM
Posts: 6241
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#25

Unread post by SBM » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:03 pm

Byculla
I like the name as I am from Madanpura area
My feeling is Adam is Taha Hakimuddin based in Saify Mahal who was recently in Dubai during Ashra, He is also using other id Saif53
I challenge Adam to deny my allegation under Oath.

canadian
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#26

Unread post by canadian » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:33 pm

^^^
These people cheat, lie and rob their followers daily. Do you really think Adam bhaisaheb will have any hesitation in taking a false oath?

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#27

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:33 pm

One thing I learned from these people, is how not to make money. When you earn without sweat it can give you anything but unhappiness. When you rob the poor it makes you stupid, no amount of money is enough.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Questions to Adam,Saif53 and alike

#28

Unread post by Adam » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:40 pm

byculla wrote:Milaap in this context means contact in any form - and misaaq makes it clear In any form would include "engaging with people who do adawat with your mola" on this forum.


I reiterate that means more of a soft corner/relationship with Dushmans. It doesn't comprise of the meaning of "engaging".
Check this:
http://urduseek.com/dictionary/love%20of?nolog=1
(fellowship) 1. the state or relation میل۔ ملاپ۔ موافقت۔ صحبت۔ انس۔ انسیت

That's the defintion, so you may agree to disagree.
In anyway, I don't try to "engage". From the beginning, I have stated that this Forum deliberately twists information. I would do my best to clarify the truth and give my own opinion.

Regardless of what you assert, I do believe that you are here with raza from Kothar and with specific purpose to defend Shz Mufaddal's purported nass. Sorry Adam - but with the amount of Kitabs you have at your disposal and that you quote from and other insider "sources" you claim to have - its difficult for me (and perhaps others on this forum) to believe that you are a common bohra like me.


Believe it or not, I'm here on my own. The Kitabs that I quote are from the books any person who has read Dawat Kitabs would have at their disposal/library.

. Your date of joining this forum (20th June 2011) clearly corresponds to 19th Rajab 1432. Its the same exact day on which fake public nass was done on Shz Mufaddal bs.

Wow. That is a very good coincidence. Thank you for bringing that to light, as I was not aware. Although I thought I had joined much before that. This site does seem to have issues with date and time. Who knows.

Let's suppose it is true, we only knew that the Qutbis claimed it was a "fake nass" after the demise of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. Unless of course, KQ lied about keeping his "secret".