Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#181

Unread post by Tayyeb » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:55 am

One of the major reason why none of high profile kotharis specially brothers of SMB and others didnt came out in SKQ favor is because they know reality of dawat and dai in these times, so they preferred to stay safe with MS and avoided any issues with MS gang. wallahu Alam.

allbird
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#182

Unread post by allbird » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:42 am

Tayyeb wrote:salam Allbird,

if you are really an insider and yet you are commenting this means your Iman is still alive and not dead like the examples of james and other idiots....glad to read your post.
Can anyone tell me what SKQ would have done things differently if he was in position of SMS ?
you have mentioned a very good point, actually you are right if SKQ was sitting instead of MS I dont think there would be any change, yes right now SKQ is decent thats just coz of his situation and need. when ever money is involve in religion it becomes disaster.


Tayyebbhai, i must have wrote incorrectly, i use to be insider but can't handle humiliation anymore. They threat you like dirt and not a servant but a slave. I have seen jamae Miyasahebs are doing work on nanny for these bhai saheb.....Disgraceful. So decided to go back to my normal job, attend miqaats and show my face once here and there.
Moula SMS TUS
you follow MS because of financial need? pressure? or some thing else?
I follow MS because of few reasons, which i am sure others too would agree. I live in 100% bohri mohalla with my parents and brothers, sisters and friends, and aging parents would NOT like any problems.

and secondly SKQ has not presented any argument so far to prove his validity.

But on the hindsight i do attend many Shai'h Waaz, watch and follow Ammar Nakswani very dearly online. I liked Moulana Athar saheb RA. And now when i attend Shai'h Waaz they are getting so use to me that they don't even give me second looks, which makes me very comfortable. They know i am a bohra but they always welcome me with open arms. I am sure Iraqis too are doing the same to mumineen in Karbala but we must not think they believe we are superior. Its in there teaching and culture to welcome guest with open arms.

LFT
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:55 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#183

Unread post by LFT » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:54 am

You are so right. In fact, the only people that dont welcome other muslims with open arms are bohras. In bohra masjid, any outsider is made to feel very very weird with a million questions and "looks."

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#184

Unread post by Wajid » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:09 pm

Salaams to all,
allbird wrote: If you are asking about Moula SMS TUS and their clan .../
Bhai Allbird,
On one side you abuse every body at Saifee Mahal and on other side you refer to MS as "Maula (TUS)". So you mean all all "haram khors" except MS. An then you say that you are with MS because of your parents, family and friends - but still refer to him as your Maula (even in an incognito forum like this one). Please get your thoughts straight. Either you are a hypocrite or you are a confused one.

You can be a MS follower due to convenience or conviction.
If it is convenience, as I have said in my earlier post, none can help you but your own self. Ask your own soul. However refrain spitting on others just because it suits your way of life.
If it is by conviction, then all I can say is "open your eyes" and you will see light.

Then you say that
allbird wrote: "and secondly SKQ has not presented any argument so far to prove his validity" .../
Well, go to your core belief. Multiple kitaabs of Dawat classify Dai / Mazoon pair to be similar one to Imam / Hujjat or Nabi / Wasi pairs. If you believe in the Dawat, then the Word of Mazoon should suffice to attest his authenticity. Syedna Qadi al-Nu’man clearly establishes this link, further attesting that Mazoon never lies - even it be to his own detriment.

Again - as I have always said - the above theory is only applicable if you believe in the Shia / Ismaili / Taiyebi / Dawoodi fiqh. If not, bhai allbird, you are a free bird where this duniya of Allah is Waseya. Be true to your self atleast.

Maa Salaams

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#185

Unread post by Wajid » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:38 pm

Salaams Bhai Humanbeing,
humanbeing wrote: Bro wajid
Are there more such letters praising SKQ by STS or SMB ? Ohh Infact, is there any letters of praises from SMB to SKQ as well ?
.. .
Bhai, if you are genuine in your quest for Haq, you will find it - inshallah ...

The problem is that the large mass of bohra population (myself included) were intentionally kept away from Mazoon saheb. The sons and brothers of SMB (ra) took over the reigns of the dawat in their own hands and I sure believe that SMB (ra) was rendered helpless under the circumstances created. So he could do nothing - but nevertheless maintained SKQ (tus) in the MOST trusted position of the Dawat. This in itself speaks volumes of his faith and trust in his Mazoon. The position of Haroon (as) in my prior post can throw light to the similitude to the situation ... Allahu Aalam

I attach for you (courtesy, FatemiDawat website) a letter written by none else that MS himself. Original letter is posted on the link below. Remember - in open bayans how many times he has accused SKQ (tus) as the one who has "bawaji saheb ne ghana sataya che and warso ni fitnat che ... bla bla bla ..."
He seems to have started his "career (sure this is his dhandha)" with all humility and then over time, changed his priorities ... Influence of his YN gang entourage ...

http://www.fatemidawat.com/resources/ev ... t-sources/
Translation:

The envelope says: Sayyidi-wa-Maulayi-Mazoon Saheb TUS

The letter says:

noble and exalted tahiyyaat, and sincere and heartfelt taslimaat, in the khidmat of the eminent Maula and honored patrician, Mazoon-ud-Dawat-al-Gharra’, Support of Dawat Tayyibiyyah, Preeminent Scholar, Leader of the Shabab-ul-Eid-iz-Zahabi, my Maula upon whom I am fida, Sayyidi-wa-Maulayi Khuzaima bhaisaheb Qutbuddin (May Allah grant him tul-ul-umr-al-sharif, and may He elevate his lofty station)—from Sayyidna TUS’s abd and your ghulam, Mufaddal Saifuddin.

Humbly, with folded hands, I do araz to you that with Aqamaula [Sayyidna Taher Saifuddin] QS’s and Bawajisaheb Maula [Sayyidna Muhammad Burhanuddin] TUS’s dua mubarak, I hope that you are in good health. We ghulams are also similarly [in good health].

It has now been too long since you, O Maula, left Mumbai. When will you, O Maula, return—very soon [I hope!]—to Mumbai, so that we can see your chehra mubarak; for your face, O Maula, is full of noor. This ghulam has an araz which I am convinced you will accept, which is that you, O Maula TUS, come back to Mumbai for your salgirah, and give us—your ghulams—the honor of celebrating it [in your presence].

In Mumbai], Bawajisaheb Maula [Sayyidna Muhammad Burhanuddin] TUS is revealing shanaat of [Imami] zuhoor. Bawajisaheb Maula TUS’s salgirah festivities were celebrated here with great shaan, and they still continue. It looks to me today as though Sayyidna Taher Saifuddin QS were himself present. Day after day, mumineen are fida-fida on Bawajisaheb Maula TUS.

This ghulam is supremely gladdened to hear your news, O Maula TUS. Bawajisaheb Maula TUS is also very, very pleased.

I offer mubarakbadis and tehniyaat for Bawajisaheb Maula TUS’s salgirah to both Maulas TUS, and to all mumineen. May Allah ta’ala give both Maulas TUS long life till the day of qiyamat.

I deeply miss your tenderness and affection, O Maula TUS. This ghulam is convinced that we ghulams will indeed have the opportunity to araz tehniyaat for your salgirah, O Maula TUS, to you in person in Mumbai!

Bestow dua, O Maula TUS, for Jawhara-tus-sharaf and for this ghulam.

Abde Sayyidna TUS and your ghulam,

Mufaddal

If I have transgressed in any way in writing this letter, I humbly beg for forgiveness.

Annotation:

Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisaheb writes to Syedna Qutbuddin in a manner that one would write to a Dai’s Mansoos.

He calls him Maula, and himself his ghulaam (servant), over and over in this letter.

He says he is fida for him.

He describes Syedna Qutbuddin’s face as “full of noor.”

He prays for long life for him, using the “tul-ul-umr” formula that post-Africa 1409H he himself declared should only be used for the Dai. Note that at that time he actively stopped mumineen from praying for Syedna Qutbuddin’s long life. He uses the “tul-ul-umr” formula to pray for Syedna Qutbuddin’s long life when he addresses him, for a total of 8 times in this letter.

He refers to Syedna Burhanuddin and Syedna Qutbuddin as “beve Maula.” He prays for “tul-ul-umr till qiyamat” for “beve Maula”.

He begs for the honor of celebrating Syedna Qutbuddin’s salgirah in his presence.

He refers to Syedna Qutbuddin’s shafaqat and tenderness for him (a shafaqat and tenderness that he repayed with a barrage of jhuti chughliyo about him to Syedna Burhanuddin, and a campaign of azamat-kaapi-naakhwani in mumineen’s hearts.)

He states that Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin is very pleased with Syedna Qutbuddin.

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#186

Unread post by Wajid » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:43 pm

Again Salaams to all,

It has been a while, I have not heard from our friends Saifbhai trepan, or Adam bhai ?
Are they gone underground ???

The letter above from "your aqa" to Sayedna Qutbuddin (tus). Any expert analysis ???
I can provide other assignments - but may overload you friends. :)

Khuda Hafiz

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#187

Unread post by Tayyeb » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:28 pm

Wajid wrote:Again Salaams to all,

It has been a while, I have not heard from our friends Saifbhai trepan, or Adam bhai ?
Are they gone underground ???

The letter above from "your aqa" to Sayedna Qutbuddin (tus). Any expert analysis ???
I can provide other assignments - but may overload you friends. :)

Khuda Hafiz
Salam brother, I dont want to burst your bubble but this proves nothing, these people are known to wrote such lovely letters for each other, this doenst mean any thing, STS loved his son and wanted him to be next dai after burhanuddin so obviously he was making a way for him by writting such letter for him.... STS was not Imam, so it does not matter what he thinks about his son.

since you are close to SKQ, can he prove any proof from Imam to prove him Dai?

(I am sure SMB has written and given many such titles to his children, but we all know the truth, SMB has given many fancy titles to MS as well)

you can remain happy in your little world with SKQ and his family, but please do not come and tell us how you have find HAQ and every thing else is batil.

you have been just lucky to drift from bigger evil to lesser one and yes you have been lucky for it ( you could do this because you are in west where there is high security for each individual and high protection for human rights unlike third world countries like India/Pakistan and Africa)...so congratulations.
Last edited by Tayyeb on Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#188

Unread post by Tayyeb » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:39 pm

you are so proud that STS wrote some lovely letters for SKQ, but do you want to know character of STS? do you want to know how he had acquired wealth is such short period of time?

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW STS USURP PROPERTIES OF MOMEENIN, INCLUDING FAMOUS SAIFY MAHAL AND SAIFY HOSPITAL?

STS DID BARAT ON THOSE MOMEENIN BUT GLADLY TOOK THEIR PROPERTIES IN HIS POSSESSION? IF HE WAS TRUE IN HIS BARAT HE SHOULD HAVE RETURN ALL THOSE PROPERTIES TO OWNERS.

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#189

Unread post by Tayyeb » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:54 pm

SKQ and MS followers can throw mud on each other all their life, but the fact will remain true that there was a big mishap after the death of 50th dai (or may be before that) and after that nothing was right in dawoodi bohra dawat....things have gone worst by the number of 53rd dai.

Shukran and fiamanillah

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#190

Unread post by Wajid » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:13 pm

Tayyeb bhai Salam,
First of all, please let me clear this misconception that you may have about me : I am no insider and I my perception / beliefs cannot be imposed upon anyone else. period.
The core belief should be in Islam - the rest is the tareeqah and it is left to everybody's own conviction. Who am I to judge between the haq and baatil ?

You are right - the letters may mean nothing - if you do not have faith in the subject being elaborated.
I replied to Bro. HB on his query.

And the rest, I asked the questions to Saif53 and Adam since they are the ones who make all those empty claims on Qutbi blogs with complicated analysis that only a Jamia "expert" can understand (void of any intellect) etc.

Please let us not talk about personal situation, safety / individual protection etc. Everybody has his own personal experience and none has a right to judge anybody else - living in the bubble or reality, only the one who lives can experience.

Maa Salaam

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#191

Unread post by Tayyeb » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:32 pm

Salam bhai Wajid,

my point was MS or SKQ makes no difference in your akhirah....so make sure you rely on Islam and Quran for it, these guys are just puppets. (rest you can analyse by your knowledge and concious)

Maa Salaam

qjbj
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:47 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#192

Unread post by qjbj » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:17 pm

^ Looks like Al-Noor is back as Tayyeb (minus the green font).

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#193

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:03 am

Really enjoyed re-reading letter from Mufaddal Saifuddin to Syedna Qutbuddin TUS. This man went from being his "humble servant" to calling laanat on him; in just a couple decades. He will pay for it inshaallah!

Indeed it is a letter from someone who knew that he is writing to one who is destined to be a dai. So Mufaddal Saifuddin is a man who is burdened with the knowledge that he is sitting on a chair that rightfully belongs to someone else. He must be so weighed down by the burden of this knowledge! No wonder he is so insecure and needs to call laanat multiple times in any majlis.

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#194

Unread post by Tayyeb » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:58 am

think_for_yourself wrote:Really enjoyed re-reading letter from Mufaddal Saifuddin to Syedna Qutbuddin TUS. This man went from being his "humble servant" to calling laanat on him; in just a couple decades. He will pay for it inshaallah!

Indeed it is a letter from someone who knew that he is writing to one who is destined to be a dai. So Mufaddal Saifuddin is a man who is burdened with the knowledge that he is sitting on a chair that rightfully belongs to someone else. He must be so weighed down by the burden of this knowledge! No wonder he is so insecure and needs to call laanat multiple times in any majlis.
no well actually MS can be innocent, his father gave him chair by ditching KQ.... we dont have any proof that KQ was destine to be Dai...

MS may thought KQ will be Dai and he wrote this letter, but his father chose MS over KQ to keep power and money within his own family. remember London hospital tape?

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#195

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:48 am

Yes that is a possibility that Syedna Burhanuddin RA changed his mind. However, that does not really add up given two things:

1. SMS claim that nass on him was actually already done over 40 years prior to the London event - the famous diary entry
2. In the public show at Raudat Tahera, it turns out that no nass was actually done then - kothar managed to pull an amazing stunt convincing everyone that it happened by muffling the audio. So if indeed nass was on SMS, why didn't Syedna RA not show any sign that day?

Saif53
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#196

Unread post by Saif53 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:00 am

FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... aight.html
Tayeed: Getting the facts straight
The concept of Tayeed is a much discussed topic by the Qutbi Bohras.
Since the inception of his claim, KQ has produced a handwritten letter by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA addressed to him. There doesn't seem to be any doubt in the authenticity of this letter - however, it is not the "only letter he" (Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA) "ever wrote in this manner to any of his children" - as alleged by KQ.

Their focus is on the words:
عقدت بعون الله تعالى و سريان سواري تائيد وليه عليه السلام في عنفوان شبابك مجالس الوعظ في العشرة المباركة
The Qutbi translation, albeit with a few minor errors is as follows:
"you delivered sermons in Muharram in the first flush of youth, with God’s aid and a flowing stream of inspiration (ta’eed) from his chosen one, the Imam of the Age".

Note: The words "Imam of the Age" are not mentioned in the text. This is an addition made by the Qutbis. The words are actually "waliyyehi" which mean [His (Allah's) waliy]. Although the word waliy could mean The Dai as well - in most cases it usually refers to the Imam - especially if it is mentioned after "Allah".

The Qutbis claim that - since KQ received tayeed, he is therefore the Mansoos (or the future Mansoos). This is a deductive fallacy and source of all the Qutbi Bohra problems - they completely ignore Nass & Tawqeef.

Here is the simple truth:
The Mansoos = who has been appointed by Nass & Tawqeef.
The Mansoos = receives Tayeed.

However, it does NOT mean, that one who receives tayeed, automatically becomes the Mansoos (as we will discuss later).

To repeat, the Mansoos is one who is ONLY appointed through Nass & Tawqeef. The first chapter of Daim al Islam clearly lays out that Nass & Tawqeef is the basis of Fatemi belief in tasalsul - nothing else (including mojiza).

Therefore:
One who receives tayeed = not necessarily the Mansoos

***
Hudood, other than the Mansoos received ilhaam:
Syedna Abdeali Saiuddin RA states in his Risala that Moulaya Ishaaq bin Moula Yaqoob Bin Bharmal received the ilhaam of khuda. What is important to note is that the Dai Mutlaq was in Yemen at the time.
(Ref: Risalah Sharifah Tasbeeh Zahab al Quds Page 231)

***
Followers other than the Mansoos received tayeed, even those who went astray.
Rasulullah SAW said the following to his poet Hassan bin Saabith and Abdullah bin Rawahah:
قال رسول الله صلع لحسان بن ثابت وعبد الله بن رواحة لا زلت مؤيدا بروح القدس ما ذببت عنا اهل البيت
[you will continue to receive tayeed from Rooh al Quds as long as you defend us, the Ahl al Bayt]
(Uyun al Akbaar Volume 4)
It is well known that Hassaan Bin Saabith did not accept the Nass of Moulana Ali AS, which was the condition Rasulullah SAW had set, therefore, the tayeed would stop.

***
All humans receive tayeed from Allah TA.
Syedna Ali bin Maula Mohammad bin Al Waleed RA states:
[indeed Allah TA gave the nafs of insaan the ability to grasp the treasures of his kingdom and the magnificence of his power and also gave the nafs the karamat of accepting His tayeed and ne'mat]
(Taaj al Aqaid : 93rd Aqeedah)
***
The entire universe is a recipient of divine sawaari from Allah TA.
Syedna Ali bin Maula Mohammad bin Al Waleed RA states in his Qasida Nazaraat al Hudood:
"the sawaari (flow) of the lataaif of Allah is always in this world. However, the taqseem (distribution) is carried out by Saheb al Asr (zamaan na saheb) and his Abwaab..."
***
Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA clearly outlines this entire tasawwur in his Africa Bayaan, when KQ claimed to receive Fayz directly from the Imam:
"Regarding aqeedah and the core tenets of our faith, another concurrent assault was launched in Nairobi, Mombasa and Malindi. Personal resolutions were signed which went against our beliefs, and against the nahj of Dawat. Some Mumineen fell prey to this ruse as well and subsequently had to renew their vows, their meethaq. It should be remembered that hudood, dignitaries of Dawat receive their “faiz” through and only through the auspices of the Dai. He regulates this faiz and distributes it amongst them as he sees fit. In our meethaq we pledge our allegiance to our Dai and affirm that the mazoon and muksasir are below him in rank, submitting to his jurisdiction.May our faith continuously strengthen by repeatedly voicing na´am, saying yes with conviction in the meethaq, and may the transgressions of those embodying the essence of repentance be forgiven.”
(Translation taken from 53 Reasons)

***
Although this fayz, ilhaam, tayeed, sawari are received by multiple entities:
· It is received ONLY through the Zamaan na Saheb, and He distributes it.
· Each receives as per their hazz / naseeb (entitlement deemed by the Zamaan na Saheb) - more or less.
***
On multiple occasions, Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA has stated that his hudood receive fayz through his Mansoos Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. He would use the words "wisatat si" which means "medium".

***
Coming back to KQ's letter. There is no question that he was a recipient of tayeed. To receive this tayeed is a invaluable sharaf and ehsaan of the Dai.
What KQ forgets is that this tayeed flowed from the Imam, THROUGH his Dai (Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA), then THROUGH his Mansoos (Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA) and then the hudood including KQ. It did NOT flow directly to him.

Unless he now claims that he received tayeed parallel to Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA and Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA as well?

Despite Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's RA crystal clear Africa Bayaan, KQ continues to believe that he received fayz directly from the Imam. He has said it in connection to this letter, and also in his speech. He has not repented from this grave sin since. This is a clear attack on Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA & Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.

The Qutbi Bohras in a complete dilemma - and keep backtracking from their belief in KQ.
Do they believe that KQ:
1. During Syedna Taher Saifuddin's RA era (during waaz) received Tayeed directly from the Imam?
2. During Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's RA era (as Mazoon) received Fayz directly from the Imam?
3. Received Tayeed & Fayz through the Dai and His Mansoos?
If the answer is the 3rd, then:
· It is in line with the bayaan of Dawat Books, the bayaan of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA & Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.
· KQ cannot claim to be Mansoos based on tayeed - since he did not receive it directly. The other hudood received it through the same channel.
However, if their answer is the 1st or the 2nd, then I sincerely request the Qutbi Bohras to get their priorities straight.

Would you rather reject the words of Duat up to the 52nd Dai? Or reject KQ's baseless claims. The choice is yours.

After all:
The Mansoos = Only by Nass & Tawqeef.
No assumptions. Period.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#197

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:07 am

The London hospital video was a joke. They first played some words that were supposed to have been uttered by Burhanuddin Moula the day before. No video. Then they played a video in which Burhanuddin Moula did not utter even one word and Qaid Johar went on and on and on about nass being done. Nass was actually done by Qaid Johar on MS!

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#198

Unread post by Tayyeb » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:40 am

Qutbibloggers Quotes Daim ul Islam and other books to prove KQ wrong, but I wonder when they will use same books to prove MS is right?

I mean in last 3 years, MS has just proved him self as a rowdy boy who knows nothing but roaming around and using public resources for ayyashi.

when will you guys use your knowledge and writing skills to prove him dai?

as far as 53rd dai is concern, STS wanted SKQ to become next dai after burhanuddin, but burhanuddin got ambitious to put his son before his father will, now every one can dance around to prove some thing, but truth is open for all.

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#199

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:02 am

think_for_yourself wrote:The London hospital video was a joke. They first played some words that were supposed to have been uttered by Burhanuddin Moula the day before. No video. Then they played a video in which Burhanuddin Moula did not utter even one word and Qaid Johar went on and on and on about nass being done. Nass was actually done by Qaid Johar on MS!
At Raudat Tahera, it was also done by the two brothers Kalimuddin and present Mukassir - they are the ones who gave the signal for the so-called shawl ceremony.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#200

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:07 pm

Tayyeb wrote:One of the major reason why none of high profile kotharis specially brothers of SMB and others didnt came out in SKQ favor is because they know reality of dawat and dai in these times, so they preferred to stay safe with MS and avoided any issues with MS gang. wallahu Alam.
Tayyeb bhai,

Please elaborate as to what you mean about "the reality of the dawat and dai in these times"? This is a sincere question, that is all.

As far as I go, if these people know the that the truth is different, and they stay with MS, I say shame on them . Here is my thinking: When somebody is really poor and does not know where his or his children's next meal will come, and they stay quiet, may be that is understandable. These people (brothers of SMB and full-brothers of SKQ) are stinking rich, and now they are worried where the next several tens of crores of rupees will come for them? And that is why they won't speak the truth? They have enough money to live comfortably, and they are with MS for more power and money? If so, it is really sad. They should really be speaking out for the truth.

And Allah knows best, and is the best judge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And they are worried about "MS gang"? India is not perfect, but is not a lawless country either.

Appreciate it if you can enlighten us on what the "prominent Kothari's" worries are? In case you know from direct sources.

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#201

Unread post by Tayyeb » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:50 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Tayyeb wrote:One of the major reason why none of high profile kotharis specially brothers of SMB and others didnt came out in SKQ favor is because they know reality of dawat and dai in these times, so they preferred to stay safe with MS and avoided any issues with MS gang. wallahu Alam.
Tayyeb bhai,

Please elaborate as to what you mean about "the reality of the dawat and dai in these times"? This is a sincere question, that is all.

As far as I go, if these people know the that the truth is different, and they stay with MS, I say shame on them . Here is my thinking: When somebody is really poor and does not know where his or his children's next meal will come, and they stay quiet, may be that is understandable. These people (brothers of SMB and full-brothers of SKQ) are stinking rich, and now they are worried where the next several tens of crores of rupees will come for them? And that is why they won't speak the truth? They have enough money to live comfortably, and they are with MS for more power and money? If so, it is really sad. They should really be speaking out for the truth.

And Allah knows best, and is the best judge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And they are worried about "MS gang"? India is not perfect, but is not a lawless country either.

Appreciate it if you can enlighten us on what the "prominent Kothari's" worries are? In case you know from direct sources.
Salam Bhai,

When I say "they know the reality" I mean they know how their brother burhanuddin and father got onto the seat, how they acquired properties and misused it, how the claim of jannat naa malik is fake ( SMB brothers also know how STS had dream of making KQ dai after SMB but the high ambition of SMB made him delayed nass and finally ditching SKQ), so now why would they lose all the wealth and fame they have achieved in all these years by following SKQ? they know its a family and ego fight nothing to do with deen and raza and nass from Imam. some times in life its not all about money but some times its aabout the izzat they aare getting, if they jump from MS to KQ obviously peoplle will start cursing and why would they risk this? what for? KQ risked it because he has long standing fight with MS, others aare happy with the money and fame they are enjoying. and as always And Allah knows best, and is the best judge.

allbird
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#202

Unread post by allbird » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:09 am

Wajid wrote:Salaams to all,
allbird wrote: If you are asking about Moula SMS TUS and their clan .../
Bhai Allbird,
On one side you abuse every body at Saifee Mahal and on other side you refer to MS as "Maula (TUS)". So you mean all all "haram khors" except MS. An then you say that you are with MS because of your parents, family and friends - but still refer to him as your Maula (even in an incognito forum like this one). Please get your thoughts straight. Either you are a hypocrite or you are a confused one.

My thoughts are my property Bhai Wajid, and what i saw at Raudat Tahera and cromwell Hospital video is what i believe. And where respect is concern i do address even Qutbi Dai as SKQ and not KQ only. I never said anything disrespectful think about Syedna Qutbuddin. I do not add TUS because i have not given misaaq to him nor i was given any proof about his nass. In any majalis or Waaz i never spoke " lanaat on Daveedar " etc etc, i just keep quiet when abdes are yelling on top of their voice.

Saifee mahal is a big house with in access of 500+ members.... apart from few there are LOTS OF free loaders therefore "haram Khors" aka free loaders.


You can be a MS follower due to convenience or conviction.
If it is convenience, as I have said in my earlier post, none can help you but your own self. Ask your own soul. However refrain spitting on others just because it suits your way of life.
If it is by conviction, then all I can say is "open your eyes" and you will see light.

Then you say that
allbird wrote: "and secondly SKQ has not presented any argument so far to prove his validity" .../
Well, go to your core belief. Multiple kitaabs of Dawat classify Dai / Mazoon pair to be similar one to Imam / Hujjat or Nabi / Wasi pairs. If you believe in the Dawat, then the Word of Mazoon should suffice to attest his authenticity. Syedna Qadi al-Nu’man clearly establishes this link, further attesting that Mazoon never lies - even it be to his own detriment.

Again - as I have always said - the above theory is only applicable if you believe in the Shia / Ismaili / Taiyebi / Dawoodi fiqh. If not, bhai allbird, you are a free bird where this duniya of Allah is Waseya. Be true to your self atleast.

We were happy and very pleased bunch until Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA was alive until all these fitna started and now you questioning me about whether i believe in shia / Ismaili / tiayebi / Dawoodi fiqh. people like you have destroy not only their Imaan but also families. And trust me there are lots of fence sitters in our Dawat thanks to this new Firqa of Qutbi bohra.

Islam has become a global joke now, Shai blaming sunni, Sunni blaming Wahabi, Wahabi blaming Shias, and now Kaka - Bhatija new players in the game show and you are questing my belief. Thanks Wajib bhai for destroying our Imaan by Firqa baazi for power lust.

I did ask previously in these forum what if SKQ was ruling saifee mahal and in position of Dai from saifee mahal would things be different from current SMS dawat ruling ?

Saif53
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#203

Unread post by Saif53 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:38 am

Wajid wrote:
Saif53 wrote:FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... -know.html
....

Salaams Saif bhai trepan,

To other forum members, I request to please not derail this discussion and let Mr. Saif bhai respond - if he is indeed truthful to his cause.
----
The letter further goes in to say "you delivered sermons in Muharram in the first flush of youth, with God’s aid and a flowing stream of ta’yid [divineinspiration] from his chosen one, the Imam of the Age" ...

In MS's own words "only a Dai can receive the ta'yid from the Imam - none else".

I challenge you to dispute the interpretation that STS (RA) did not refer to SKQ (TUS) as a future Dai in the making. Who besides a Dai can be referred to as the one who shines in rightly guided Dawat (Da’wat-e Hadiya’s) sky as "a shining moon on the night of its fullness, ...

Eagerly awaiting your response.

Fi AmanIllah


FROM THE QUTBO BOHRA BLOG:
(Updated 13 March 2016)
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... aight.html
Tayeed: Getting the facts straight

(Updated 13 March 2016)

The concept of Tayeed is a much discussed topic by the Qutbi Bohras.
Since the inception of his claim, KQ has produced a handwritten letter by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA addressed to him. There doesn't seem to be any doubt in the authenticity of this letter - however, it is not the "only letter he" (Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA) "ever wrote in this manner to any of his children" - as alleged by KQ.

Their focus is on the words:
عقدت بعون الله تعالى و سريان سواري تائيد وليه عليه السلام في عنفوان شبابك مجالس الوعظ في العشرة المباركة
The Qutbi translation, albeit with a few minor errors is as follows:
"you delivered sermons in Muharram in the first flush of youth, with God’s aid and a flowing stream of inspiration (ta’eed) from his chosen one, the Imam of the Age".

Note: The words "Imam of the Age" are not mentioned in the text. This is an addition made by the Qutbis. The words are actually "waliyyehi" which mean [His (Allah's) waliy]. Although the word waliy could mean The Dai as well - in most cases it usually refers to the Imam - especially if it is mentioned after "Allah".

The Qutbis claim that - since KQ received tayeed, he is therefore the Mansoos (or the future Mansoos). This is a deductive fallacy and source of all the Qutbi Bohra problems - they completely ignore Nass & Tawqeef.

Here is the simple truth:
The Mansoos = who has been appointed by Nass & Tawqeef.
The Mansoos = receives Tayeed.

However, it does NOT mean, that one who receives tayeed, automatically becomes the Mansoos (as we will discuss later).

To repeat, the Mansoos is one who is ONLY appointed through Nass & Tawqeef. The first chapter of Daim al Islam clearly lays out that Nass & Tawqeef is the basis of Fatemi belief in tasalsul - nothing else (including mojiza).

Therefore:
One who receives tayeed = not necessarily the Mansoos

***
Hudood, other than the Mansoos received ilhaam:
Syedna Abdeali Saiuddin RA states in his Risala that Moulaya Ishaaq bin Moula Yaqoob Bin Bharmal received the ilhaam of khuda. What is important to note is that the Dai Mutlaq was in Yemen at the time.
(Ref: Risalah Sharifah Tasbeeh Zahab al Quds Page 231)

***
Mumineen receive tayeed according to their own darajah:
In the verses of wazifah al shukra, mumineen are instructed to recite the following verse of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA:
بتائيدكم نسطيع درس علومكم
[with your tayeed (O' Aimmat) - we are able to learn your ilm...]
Therefore, Mumineen believers receive tayeed as well - but of course, only through the Dai.

Followers other than the Mansoos received tayeed, even those who went astray.
Rasulullah SAW said the following to his poet Hassan bin Saabith and Abdullah bin Rawahah:
قال رسول الله صلع لحسان بن ثابت وعبد الله بن رواحة لا زلت مؤيدا بروح القدس ما ذببت عنا اهل البيت
[you will continue to receive tayeed from Rooh al Quds as long as you defend us, the Ahl al Bayt]
(Uyun al Akbaar Volume 4)
It is well known that Hassaan Bin Saabith did not accept the Nass of Moulana Ali AS, which was the condition Rasulullah SAW had set, therefore, the tayeed would stop.

***
All humans receive tayeed from Allah TA.
Syedna Ali bin Maula Mohammad bin Al Waleed RA states:
[indeed Allah TA gave the nafs of insaan the ability to grasp the treasures of his kingdom and the magnificence of his power and also gave the nafs the karamat of accepting His tayeed and ne'mat]
(Taaj al Aqaid : 93rd Aqeedah)
***
The entire universe is a recipient of divine sawaari from Allah TA.
Syedna Ali bin Maula Mohammad bin Al Waleed RA states in his Qasida Nazaraat al Hudood:
"the sawaari (flow) of the lataaif of Allah is always in this world. However, the taqseem (distribution) is carried out by Saheb al Asr (zamaan na saheb) and his Abwaab..."
***
Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA clearly outlines this entire tasawwur in his Africa Bayaan, when KQ claimed to receive Fayz directly from the Imam:
"Regarding aqeedah and the core tenets of our faith, another concurrent assault was launched in Nairobi, Mombasa and Malindi. Personal resolutions were signed which went against our beliefs, and against the nahj of Dawat. Some Mumineen fell prey to this ruse as well and subsequently had to renew their vows, their meethaq. It should be remembered that hudood, dignitaries of Dawat receive their “faiz” through and only through the auspices of the Dai. He regulates this faiz and distributes it amongst them as he sees fit. In our meethaq we pledge our allegiance to our Dai and affirm that the mazoon and muksasir are below him in rank, submitting to his jurisdiction.May our faith continuously strengthen by repeatedly voicing na´am, saying yes with conviction in the meethaq, and may the transgressions of those embodying the essence of repentance be forgiven.”
(Translation taken from 53 Reasons)

***
Although this fayz, ilhaam, tayeed, sawari are received by multiple entities:
· It is received ONLY through the Zamaan na Saheb, and He distributes it.
· Each receives as per their hazz / naseeb (entitlement deemed by the Zamaan na Saheb) - more or less.
***
On multiple occasions, Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA has stated that his hudood receive fayz through his Mansoos Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. He would use the words "wisatat si" which means "medium".

***
Coming back to KQ's letter. There is no question that he was a recipient of tayeed. To receive this tayeed is a invaluable sharaf and ehsaan of the Dai.
What KQ forgets is that this tayeed flowed from the Imam, THROUGH his Dai (Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA), then THROUGH his Mansoos (Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA) and then the hudood including KQ. It did NOT flow directly to him.

Unless he now claims that he received tayeed parallel to Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA and Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA as well?

Despite Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's RA crystal clear Africa Bayaan, KQ continues to believe that he received fayz directly from the Imam. He has said it in connection to this letter, and also in his speech. He has not repented from this grave sin since. This is a clear attack on Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA & Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.

The Qutbi Bohras in a complete dilemma - and keep backtracking from their belief in KQ.
Do they believe that KQ:
1. During Syedna Taher Saifuddin's RA era (during waaz) received Tayeed directly from the Imam?
2. During Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's RA era (as Mazoon) received Fayz directly from the Imam?
3. Received Tayeed & Fayz through the Dai and His Mansoos?
If the answer is the 3rd, then:
· It is in line with the bayaan of Dawat Books, the bayaan of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA & Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.
· KQ cannot claim to be Mansoos based on tayeed - since he did not receive it directly. The other hudood received it through the same channel.
However, if their answer is the 1st or the 2nd, then I sincerely request the Qutbi Bohras to get their priorities straight.

Would you rather reject the words of Duat up to the 52nd Dai? Or reject KQ's baseless claims. The choice is yours.

After all:
The Mansoos = Only by Nass & Tawqeef.
No assumptions. Period.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#204

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:11 am

Tayyeb wrote:
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Tayyeb bhai,

Please elaborate as to what you mean about "the reality of the dawat and dai in these times"? This is a sincere question, that is all.

As far as I go, if these people know the that the truth is different, and they stay with MS, I say shame on them . Here is my thinking: When somebody is really poor and does not know where his or his children's next meal will come, and they stay quiet, may be that is understandable. These people (brothers of SMB and full-brothers of SKQ) are stinking rich, and now they are worried where the next several tens of crores of rupees will come for them? And that is why they won't speak the truth? They have enough money to live comfortably, and they are with MS for more power and money? If so, it is really sad. They should really be speaking out for the truth.

And Allah knows best, and is the best judge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And they are worried about "MS gang"? India is not perfect, but is not a lawless country either.

Appreciate it if you can enlighten us on what the "prominent Kothari's" worries are? In case you know from direct sources.
Salam Bhai,

When I say "they know the reality" I mean they know how their brother burhanuddin and father got onto the seat, how they acquired properties and misused it, how the claim of jannat naa malik is fake ( SMB brothers also know how STS had dream of making KQ dai after SMB but the high ambition of SMB made him delayed nass and finally ditching SKQ), so now why would they lose all the wealth and fame they have achieved in all these years by following SKQ? they know its a family and ego fight nothing to do with deen and raza and nass from Imam. some times in life its not all about money but some times its aabout the izzat they aare getting, if they jump from MS to KQ obviously peoplle will start cursing and why would they risk this? what for? KQ risked it because he has long standing fight with MS, others aare happy with the money and fame they are enjoying. and as always And Allah knows best, and is the best judge.
Thank you, bhai Tayyeb, for the quick response.

What I am trying to understand is: Khuda no khauf (fear of Allah) is not playing a role in their consideration? If they think SMS is the person on whom the nass was done, fine. However, if they think (and they likely know) that it was done on SKQ, then they are testifying to a lie. And to give false testimony is a major sin in Islam, correct?

Am I to take away from your comments that religion, fear of Allah, is stuff that they tell us, but it is not the most important for them? Sad indeed if true. Again, who am I to cast such aspersions on them - Allah knows best.

allbird
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#205

Unread post by allbird » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:37 am

since you are close to SKQ, can he prove any proof from Imam to prove him Dai?



Well said. Now only Imam from Gahb can come and identify the TRUE DAI and can conveniently disappear again if he wishes to. Or either SMS or SKQ show such moziza that the whole community can turn around to one single side.

If you look at it, its doable wonder who will come out the real one ?

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#206

Unread post by Tayyeb » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:50 am

Khuda no khauf (fear of Allah) is not playing a role in their consideration?
khuda no khauf ended in this dawat long back...check the detail history from STS/SMB and now MS/KQ regime.

Bhai allbird,

Dawat belongs to Imam and not to dai, and you must have noticed both MS and KQ followers are showing letters from dai and not from Imam, dai can write any thing for his children. but the authority should come from Imam himself....yeah MS PR is one step ahead, they are in process of declaring MS Imam in coming few years so that this whole fight about dai and his successor will end and they will have complete authority.

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#207

Unread post by Wajid » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:55 pm

Saif53 wrote:
Wajid wrote: ....
FROM THE QUTBO BOHRA BLOG:
(Updated 13 March 2016)
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... aight.html
[/color][/i]

In the Mufaddali Dawat, everyone shines as a full moon ... and every has a great destiny ... You are absolutely correct. The followers of SKQ (TUS) are a lost lot destined to perdition.

Mubarak you and your aDawat that offers you unconditional salvation as was announced by Lacewala ...

Lakum deenukum wa liyadeen ...

Fi AmanIllah

Biradar
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#208

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:00 pm

Tayyeb wrote:
Khuda no khauf (fear of Allah) is not playing a role in their consideration?
khuda no khauf ended in this dawat long back...check the detail history from STS/SMB and now MS/KQ regime.

Bhai allbird,

Dawat belongs to Imam and not to dai, and you must have noticed both MS and KQ followers are showing letters from dai and not from Imam, dai can write any thing for his children. but the authority should come from Imam himself....yeah MS PR is one step ahead, they are in process of declaring MS Imam in coming few years so that this whole fight about dai and his successor will end and they will have complete authority.
Just to point out: this so-called "Tayyeb" is none other than Al Noor. He is a double faced fool. He is probably an ithna ashari as he has said in his previous awtaars. Best to ignore him.

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#209

Unread post by Wajid » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:03 pm

Saif bhai trepan, Salaams.

Responding to the pm that you sent me ...

You are right, you have got the facts straight indeed. There is no room for any debate. You are right on spot when you state that anybody can and does receive the tayeed ... In fact all the masaajid aamils do their bayan with the tayeed in the Mufaddali Dawat. Including the rants of Badri Lacewala was with the tayeed in your Dai's majlis ...

The letter by STS (RA) is indeed a generic one written with no particular significance. In fact, it seems he had nothing to do when he wrote this letter.

In your Mufaddali Dawat today, following qualities are found amply in many individuals ...

[quote]the bright luminary and an auspicious star in the firmament of high distinction, a Dawat rank-holder with a great destiny, one who walks the path of truest guidance, and has gathered in his heart the gems and pearls of the ultimate realities of knowledge, one who shines in rightly guided Dawat (Da’wat-e Hadiya’s) sky as a shining moon on the night of its fullness ,,,, [/quote]

In the Mufaddali Dawat, everyone shines as a full moon ... and every has a great destiny ... You are absolutely correct. The followers of SKQ (TUS) are a lost lot destined to perdition.

Mubarak you and your aDawat that offers you unconditional salvation as was announced by Lacewala ...

Lakum deenukum wa liyadeen ...

Fi AmanIllah

Biradar
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#210

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:48 pm

Wajid,

Again, I want to say you are wasting your time. Imagine the situation with Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saifudin (DMMS). He and his brothers and uncles insulted and humiliated the mazoon for decades. They openly and in secret opposed him, schemed against him, even tried to assassinate him three times. I mean, not just that, when their father became old and suffered from the stroke, they paraded him like a mannequin trying to extract as much mileage from him as they could!

What is the surprise, then, that they deny that the STS (RA) held his youngest but one son in highest esteem, wrote to him unique letters and clearly and unambiguously indicated his position? In their zeal, not only are they insulting SMB (RA) but also STS (RA)! It will not end. Consider the curious case of this Saif fellow, blogging about nonsense. On his blog he says Imam's tayeed can be for anyone. This is the exact same point they used to attack the mazoon sahib during the era of SMB (RA)! During the manufactured incident in Africa, they said that Imam's tayeed and ilhaam is just for da'i and no one else, and attacked the mazoon based on this. Now, they are claiming that imam's ilhaam can be for anyone and everyone! As they said, the duplicity of a snake knows no bound. The sun will rise from the West before you will convince them that the path they have chosen is leading them to hell.