Jamea Oral (Safai) Imtehaan in Surat

If you have questions or want to share knowledge about Dawoodi Bohra religions and rituals please post them here. Any discussion outside the framework of Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and tradition is not allowed. This forum is primarily for sharing of information and knowledge.
QutbiBohra
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:46 am

Jamea Oral (Safai) Imtehaan in Surat

#1

Unread post by QutbiBohra » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:18 am

The Jamea's Oral examination (Safai Imtehaan) is going on in Surat.
Some of the observation which was noticed within last week:
Total oral part is scripted. All questions and readings from said books (risalat) are pre copulated.

Fakhru uncle will call the names of students ( I don't know why he calls the names with fearful voice? common its just a names).
Qasim chacha will ask student to read from pre printed paper. The questions were all highlighted from the book. There is a guide Kinana standing right behind him to keep control on his questions. If he goes pass limit two more controllers, Mehlam gunda and Qusai chamcha will stand up and take control of the situation.
Shz Qaid will stay calm and enjoys whole drama. Once in a while he speaks ups.
The whole game is controlled by Jaferus Sadik. Al though he seems to be scholar and more energetic than other three, still he reads out of the scripted questionnaire and answers. He is Hafizji but still reds all Quranic ayah from the piece of paper :lol:

One of the Kothari told us that all these oral exams are scripted and merely prepared within instructions from Kinana, Qusai Chamcha and Mehlam gunda. All the questions are set on basis of observation of student type, locality, their yearly performance and the family background.

So the results are well known even before the oral starts!!!!!!



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#2

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:49 am

Who is Fakhru uncle?



QutbiBohra
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:46 am

#3

Unread post by QutbiBohra » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:07 pm

kimanumanu wrote:Who is Fakhru uncle?
Shejada Abbas Fakhredin



alivasan
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

#4

Unread post by alivasan » Tue May 03, 2016 10:40 pm

54th incumbent Jaffer Sadik would frame questions from his book 'AL AQMAR...'..New Mukasir Qasim from 'Mullahs in Mainframe'...kusai on 'quran receitation' when Q joker's turn comes to ask question he asks 'how does one receite lannat on daweder 24x7 ?

No prizes for best answer.!!!



QutbiBohra
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:46 am

#5

Unread post by QutbiBohra » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:11 am

I have FIVE questions and I want answer on correct logic. There are lots of explanations based on believe but I want something more powerful and logical.
1. Why Moula Ali SA allowed two Khalifas buried next to Rasulullah?
(If these two Khalifa were against Islam then how can they buried near Rasulullah but Moulatona Fatema SA was not allowed near Rasululullah SA. Why Moula Ali SA did not take any action although in Rasulullah’s time Ali SA done preparation for Qayamat and Killed lots of people who might be big danger to Islam)
2. If Hasan Imam did compromise with Muaviyah then why did he ask for money from Muaviyah?
(Why Hasan Imam SA got hajat from dushman Muaviyah not from Allah)
3. How does Nass travelled from Imam Aamir to Doat in Yemen?
(No witness or no direct contact. It happens through handkerchief)

4. Alavi bohra says they are right, Dawoodi bohra says they are right and Qutbi Bohra says they are right so how to determine who is right?
5. We believe Dai knows everything then on three occasions Wafat of 52nd Dai, Wafat of Mazoon Syedi Husain and Wafat of Amir Jamea Abbas, Mufaddal moula just left the scene and had to come back from Colombo, Nagpur and Bhavnagar. What could have happened in these scenarios?



Biradar
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#6

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:21 pm

QutbiBohra wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:11 am
I have FIVE questions and I want answer on correct logic. There are lots of explanations based on believe but I want something more powerful and logical.
1. Why Moula Ali SA allowed two Khalifas buried next to Rasulullah?
(If these two Khalifa were against Islam then how can they buried near Rasulullah but Moulatona Fatema SA was not allowed near Rasululullah SA. Why Moula Ali SA did not take any action although in Rasulullah’s time Ali SA done preparation for Qayamat and Killed lots of people who might be big danger to Islam)
2. If Hasan Imam did compromise with Muaviyah then why did he ask for money from Muaviyah?
(Why Hasan Imam SA got hajat from dushman Muaviyah not from Allah)
3. How does Nass travelled from Imam Aamir to Doat in Yemen?
(No witness or no direct contact. It happens through handkerchief)

4. Alavi bohra says they are right, Dawoodi bohra says they are right and Qutbi Bohra says they are right so how to determine who is right?
5. We believe Dai knows everything then on three occasions Wafat of 52nd Dai, Wafat of Mazoon Syedi Husain and Wafat of Amir Jamea Abbas, Mufaddal moula just left the scene and had to come back from Colombo, Nagpur and Bhavnagar. What could have happened in these scenarios?
1. First, Ali did not have control over the zaahiri khilafaat during the time of Abu Bakar, Umar and Usmaan. These three usurpers had sidelined the family of the Prophet and, in fact, were openly hostile to them. Immediately after the Prophet died they busied themselves with power politics, pushing aside his true successor. As such, Ali had no choice in these matters and could not have done anything without wide-spread bloodshed, and the likely destruction of the nascent Islamic community.

2. Imam Hassan abdicated, but the zaarhiri khilafaat was rightfully his. Part of the formula of abdication was peace for the Shi'a and some financial arrangements to ensure the continuity of the Imam's line. The accursed Muawiyah broke all his promises and appointed his equally accursed son Yazid as his successor, leading to the tragedy of Karbala.

3. Nass travelled from Imam Aamir to his son Imam Tayeeb. Not to du'at in Yemen. The establishment of the line of du'at al-mutlaqeen was done by Molatona Hurrat al-Malika. She was a hujjat of the Imam and had reached such a exalted position that she could interpret mere signs from the Imam and had the authority, bestowed on her by the Imam, to appoint the du'at to handle the dawaat while the Imam was in seclusion. Just imagine the immense responsibility she faced with the seclusion of Imam Tayeeb: to ensure continuity of the Fatimid tradition and dawaat for an extended period of time. Her success can be measure by the fact that her established institution has now survived for about a thousand years. Such was her immense position and sagacity!

4. Questions of legitimacy are hard to determine objectively. Most of us are born into the belief system which we keep for the rest of our lives. We don't do analysis and then determine which course to take, as by the time we are mentally capable of this, our minds are already made up by our upbringing. We reject the claims of Alavi's and it is not the time to rehash the old disputes. It is too late.

The more critical question is how to move forward in these uncertain times of schism. As I said in another thread, one must first judge the character of the person making a claim. On one side is the mazoon of SMB, who served him faithfully for 50 years, who was the most beloved son of STS and whose outlook to life was modern, forward looking and enlightened. On the other hand, there is a rouge son, who disobeyed his own father during his lifetime, disrespected the mazoon, conspired against him, and, worse of all, hatched a conspiracy which will have a tremendous impact on the future of the dawaat. Further, this person is a known fanatic, a misogynistic and anti-intellectual Taliban like mad-man. I mean, is not the choice clear? Lets not go into theological disputes when his character is totally unsuitable for a da'i.



kseeker
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

#7

Unread post by kseeker » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:28 pm

QutbiBohra wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:11 am
I have FIVE questions and I want answer on correct logic. There are lots of explanations based on believe but I want something more powerful and logical.
1. Why Moula Ali SA allowed two Khalifas buried next to Rasulullah?
(If these two Khalifa were against Islam then how can they buried near Rasulullah but Moulatona Fatema SA was not allowed near Rasululullah SA. Why Moula Ali SA did not take any action although in Rasulullah’s time Ali SA done preparation for Qayamat and Killed lots of people who might be big danger to Islam)
2. If Hasan Imam did compromise with Muaviyah then why did he ask for money from Muaviyah?
(Why Hasan Imam SA got hajat from dushman Muaviyah not from Allah)
3. How does Nass travelled from Imam Aamir to Doat in Yemen?
(No witness or no direct contact. It happens through handkerchief)

4. Alavi bohra says they are right, Dawoodi bohra says they are right and Qutbi Bohra says they are right so how to determine who is right?
5. We believe Dai knows everything then on three occasions Wafat of 52nd Dai, Wafat of Mazoon Syedi Husain and Wafat of Amir Jamea Abbas, Mufaddal moula just left the scene and had to come back from Colombo, Nagpur and Bhavnagar. What could have happened in these scenarios?
1. Bro Biradar has answered the first three .. I would like to answer the last two to the best of my ability.

4. Logically and factually, it is extremely difficult to "prove" the correct line of bohras at this time ... The theological explanation of Dawoodi belief is that the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) had prophecized 18 Dai'is in the Al Waleed family.. neither the Sulemani or Alavi Bohras have them.. only the Dawoodi Bohras do.... This sort of belief is similar to the one we use to differentiate ourselves with Kazimi Shia'as

5. Dai's do NOT know everything. Even Mustauda Imaams don't know everything so the Dai is a long way away.... this false information has been propogated to make the position of the Dai stronger and irrefutable. A thing which became necesarry after the death of the 46th Dai.



juzer esmail
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

#8

Unread post by juzer esmail » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:50 am

Bhai who is Al Waleed?



kseeker
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

#9

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:50 am

juzer esmail wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:50 am
Bhai who is Al Waleed?
When Rasulullah started preaching, he faced many hardships.. one of the toughest challenges he faced were in Taif where the locals over there injured him very badly. He was resting by a tree when someone, at the instruction of Muhammed bin Al Waleed offered the prophet 18 grapes. The prophet thanked them and prayed for them due to which 18 Dai's were promised in his lineage. 17 came from Yemen, 1 came from India.

Regards



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#10

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:53 pm

Bro Biradar gave the answers to the questions but his answers were simply due to "Most of us are born into the belief system which we keep for the rest of our lives. We don't do analysis and then determine which course to take, as by the time we are mentally capable of this, our minds are already made up by our upbringing. We reject the claims of Alavi's and it is not the time to rehash the old disputes. It is too late."

I mean seriously? Do you want to take answers from someone who acknowledges that he is brainwashed due to his upbringing and even though he is smart and intelligent his upbringing is the cause of his stupidity?

People who don't have answers have invented zaahiri khilafats and baatini khilafats. That is like saying Trump seems like an idiot because we are only capable of seeing his zaahiri presidency. His baatini presidency is everlasting and he is truly the second coming of Christ!!!



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:59 pm

When Rasulullah started preaching, he faced many hardships.. one of the toughest challenges he faced were in Taif where the locals over there injured him very badly. He was resting by a tree when someone, at the instruction of Muhammed bin Al Waleed offered the prophet 18 grapes. The prophet thanked them and prayed for them due to which 18 Dai's were promised in his lineage. 17 came from Yemen, 1 came from India.
Does the above sound familiar to this

After two years of pregnancy, Gandhari gave birth to a hard piece of lifeless flesh that was not a baby at all. Gandhari was devastated as she had expected a hundred sons according to the blessing of Rishi Vyas. She was about to throw away the piece of flesh when Rishi Vyas appeared and told her that his blessings could not have been in vain and asked Gandhari to arrange for one hundred jars to be filled with ghee. He told Gandhari that he would cut the piece of flesh into a hundred pieces and place them in the jars, which would then develop into the one hundred sons that she so desired. Gandhari told Vyas then that she also wanted to have a daughter. Vyas agreed, cut the piece of flesh into one hundred and one pieces, and placed them each into a jar. After two more years of patient waiting the jars were ready to be opened. And lo and behold Gandhari had given birth to a 100 children!!!!



Bohra spring
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

#12

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:26 am

1. The Prophet SAW was buried in his house. His wife has the rights not daughter.

Hazrat Aisha permitted her father and Umar to be burried.

Ali AS was not yet a Khalifa and we say he had an issue. He was fine with Ashaba taking over until he aged. He probably respected them more than we do.

2. Who said Hassan AS had not compromised with Mauya.

3. The end of fatimide in Egypt was chaotic. The crusades were full on , the Sunni warlords were invading. Handkerchief story is a mythology.

4.one should be concerned with Quran is right. Rest is fairy tales and politics.

5. SMS is an over hyped Bohra sheikh and son of rich priest family . No special powers or Islamic scholar. Why people treat him as celebrity. Because Bohra lack someone or something in their lives.

QutbiBohra wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:11 am
I have FIVE questions and I want answer on correct logic. There are lots of explanations based on believe but I want something more powerful and logical.
1. Why Moula Ali SA allowed two Khalifas buried next to Rasulullah?
(If these two Khalifa were against Islam then how can they buried near Rasulullah but Moulatona Fatema SA was not allowed near Rasululullah SA. Why Moula Ali SA did not take any action although in Rasulullah’s time Ali SA done preparation for Qayamat and Killed lots of people who might be big danger to Islam)
2. If Hasan Imam did compromise with Muaviyah then why did he ask for money from Muaviyah?
(Why Hasan Imam SA got hajat from dushman Muaviyah not from Allah)
3. How does Nass travelled from Imam Aamir to Doat in Yemen?
(No witness or no direct contact. It happens through handkerchief)

4. Alavi bohra says they are right, Dawoodi bohra says they are right and Qutbi Bohra says they are right so how to determine who is right?
5. We believe Dai knows everything then on three occasions Wafat of 52nd Dai, Wafat of Mazoon Syedi Husain and Wafat of Amir Jamea Abbas, Mufaddal moula just left the scene and had to come back from Colombo, Nagpur and Bhavnagar. What could have happened in these scenarios?