Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

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HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1201

Unread post by HJK » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:58 am

kseeker wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:19 am
Fathe Mubin??
Please read the summary of the verdict released by the court in the attachment. For proof of authenticity, you may visit the link below and download the file yourself:

Code: Select all

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/5b68d25ce4b0b9ab4020e71c


Basically, the case was thrown out because 'tests' proved that FGM never took place on the girls in question!
The only conclusion one can come up to is that the evidence was tainted...

Dawoodi Bhakts might say this was a mojiza of Mola that during the tests the dushmans got blinded.. but if MS had to hide HAQ, he is not that great a Mola.... well he showed how 'great' he was when he went on and on fuming and cursing people against FGM but din't have the audacity to actually use the word Khatna..

Please spread the document via Whatsapp to every mumin out there. they should know how the 'fathe mubin' happened.
you stupid ass, dawoodi bohras do not perform FGM and thats what the verdict also says and we have been also saying, we perform a procedure on the clitorial hood which as minute as this shown in the verdict. We will prove the same thing here in India and in the US and when the trial starts in the US the same thing is going to be proven because then the latest medical reports will have nothing just like this.

That is proven in the verdict. my oversmart and overconfident friend ozd will give you further details on this

HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1202

Unread post by HJK » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:01 am

allbird wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:23 am
This should not be taken as Fateha Mubin since the court has Acquitted the Shaikh since he is innocent. However one must understand it doesn't mean they are legalizing Khatna / Khatfz in Australia, only the innocent are acquitted in this case. Kothar has spent Hundreds and thousands of dollars to alter this case. From my sources within that country i got information that the courts and judges (jury) can be greased just like India. In Australia major criminals like Pedophiles, rapist, murderers and petty thieves are left off with a smack on hand while motorist are dealt severely and penalized because its easy job and generates revenue for the state. Australian Police are powerless, lazy, gutless and law is toothless. Crime in this country is 41% while hardly even 1% of criminals are sentenced. May immigrants who migrated to Australia are pretty fed up with law and order situation in major cities, country police are racist and will do nothing for Asia and immigrants but if White's then they maybe react. Lets not forget they recently legalized GAY marriages maybe they will legalize Khafz too and chopping shops will open up on every nook and corner with mumineen bhai and bahen sitting on counters welcoming mothers with little girl child.
Kothar has poured in Millions of Dollars and hired Boutique lawyers to fight this case just to get the Shaikh saheb out of jail, so yes Fatha mubin the innocents are out but lets wait and watch before we celebrate unless all bohras residing in Aus are free to get their girl child cut this is not Fateh Mubin. Syedna's recent trip to Singapore and Malaysia did really paid off. I am sure the lawyers from Aust where the important mission there i guess. Only Allah knows better.
Even after the US you are going to say the same. Jalte raho. technically currently female circumcision that we practice is legal in Australia untill a law is brought. just ss my overconfident friend pointed out.

kseeker
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1203

Unread post by kseeker » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:25 pm

HJK wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:58 am
kseeker wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:19 am
Fathe Mubin??
Please read the summary of the verdict released by the court in the attachment. For proof of authenticity, you may visit the link below and download the file yourself:

Code: Select all

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/5b68d25ce4b0b9ab4020e71c


Basically, the case was thrown out because 'tests' proved that FGM never took place on the girls in question!
The only conclusion one can come up to is that the evidence was tainted...

Dawoodi Bhakts might say this was a mojiza of Mola that during the tests the dushmans got blinded.. but if MS had to hide HAQ, he is not that great a Mola.... well he showed how 'great' he was when he went on and on fuming and cursing people against FGM but din't have the audacity to actually use the word Khatna..

Please spread the document via Whatsapp to every mumin out there. they should know how the 'fathe mubin' happened.
you stupid ass, dawoodi bohras do not perform FGM and thats what the verdict also says and we have been also saying, we perform a procedure on the clitorial hood which as minute as this shown in the verdict. We will prove the same thing here in India and in the US and when the trial starts in the US the same thing is going to be proven because then the latest medical reports will have nothing just like this.

That is proven in the verdict. my oversmart and overconfident friend ozd will give you further details on this
Retard, let me quote you something directly from the passage and explain it to you cause apparently your english comprehension is deplorable.
Although there was no medical evidence at the trial of any damage to the clitoris of either child, the tip of the clitoral head could not be seen during the medical examinations.
On appeal, the Court of Criminal Appeal granted leave to the appellants to adduce new expert evidence, which established that the tip of the clitoral head was visible in each complainant.


The case was lodged BECAUSE the head could not be seen.... on APPEAL, the case was dismissed because based on "new expert advice" the tip of the head WAS visible!!!.. if it's visible, the khatna wasn't done because our way of doing khatna IS removing the head.. .. which means the reports are not true.. understood, Mr Moron??

momeenbhai
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1204

Unread post by momeenbhai » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:37 pm

What African tribal do is totally different than what bohras do.

HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1205

Unread post by HJK » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:21 am

kseeker wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:25 pm
HJK wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:58 am

you stupid ass, dawoodi bohras do not perform FGM and thats what the verdict also says and we have been also saying, we perform a procedure on the clitorial hood which as minute as this shown in the verdict. We will prove the same thing here in India and in the US and when the trial starts in the US the same thing is going to be proven because then the latest medical reports will have nothing just like this.

That is proven in the verdict. my oversmart and overconfident friend ozd will give you further details on this
Retard, let me quote you something directly from the passage and explain it to you cause apparently your english comprehension is deplorable.
Although there was no medical evidence at the trial of any damage to the clitoris of either child, the tip of the clitoral head could not be seen during the medical examinations.
On appeal, the Court of Criminal Appeal granted leave to the appellants to adduce new expert evidence, which established that the tip of the clitoral head was visible in each complainant.


The case was lodged BECAUSE the head could not be seen.... on APPEAL, the case was dismissed because based on "new expert advice" the tip of the head WAS visible!!!.. if it's visible, the khatna wasn't done because our way of doing khatna IS removing the head.. .. which means the reports are not true.. understood, Mr Moron??
You [DELETED], we do not touch the clitoris, we touch the prepuce, next time you type a message [DELETED] check your knowledge.The head of the clitoris was seen which means that it doesn't even fall in the classification of fgm. our practice does not harm the clitoris at all. You Scumbag

momeenbhai
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1206

Unread post by momeenbhai » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:13 am

thats the right language used for adharmi who speak lies.

kseeker
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1207

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:24 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:21 am
kseeker wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:25 pm


Retard, let me quote you something directly from the passage and explain it to you cause apparently your english comprehension is deplorable.



The case was lodged BECAUSE the head could not be seen.... on APPEAL, the case was dismissed because based on "new expert advice" the tip of the head WAS visible!!!.. if it's visible, the khatna wasn't done because our way of doing khatna IS removing the head.. .. which means the reports are not true.. understood, Mr Moron??
You [DELETED], we do not touch the clitoris, we touch the prepuce, next time you type a message [DELETED] check your knowledge.The head of the clitoris was seen which means that it doesn't even fall in the classification of fgm. our practice does not harm the clitoris at all. You Scumbag
you sound like a proper bhakt of Mufaddal "Abu Bakr" Saifuddin.. .. I wonder if you will be able to understand the quoted text.. depends if your master gave you permission to study islam....

tell me Mr. Bhakt.. what is the reason (apart from "My mola told me to" ) a woman is supposed to get rid of her prepuce? or nip it..as you say?

kseeker
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1208

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:46 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:21 am
kseeker wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:25 pm


Retard, let me quote you something directly from the passage and explain it to you cause apparently your english comprehension is deplorable.



The case was lodged BECAUSE the head could not be seen.... on APPEAL, the case was dismissed because based on "new expert advice" the tip of the head WAS visible!!!.. if it's visible, the khatna wasn't done because our way of doing khatna IS removing the head.. .. which means the reports are not true.. understood, Mr Moron??
You son of a dog, we do not touch the clitoris, we touch the prepuce, next time you type a message bastard check your knowledge.The head of the clitoris was seen which means that it doesn't even fall in the classification of fgm. our practice does not harm the clitoris at all. You Scumbag

And just for your information (not that any truth apart from that given to you by the kothar and your local amilsaheb will be useful to you), what you are describing as the bohra ritual of only reducing the prepuce and comparing it to the western procedure of clitoral unhooding to get MORE sexually aroused is absolute bullshit and propogated after the US cases... because Aussie cases don't get any airtime.. but anything of this nature happens in the US, Abu Bakr's empire will be in trouble..

I have specifically asked two or three women who perform the khatna and they say it is the removal of the clitoris head to CURB sexual arousal. getting rid of the 'haraam ni boti' keeps the woman hygienic and more faithful to her husband... so please, go and spread your useless bullshit to other Bhakts like yourself..

As a matter of principle, I do not challenge or question things from Daim ul Islam as it has been written by Syedi Abu Hanifa Kazi Noman.. who is a great scholar from the semi modern era and the source of our knowledge.. I have some reservations regarding statements in it such as the earth is flat and the woman khatna thing.. but i let it be as I don't understand everything...

My concern is with the lies the Bhakt's are spreading with regards to the 'fathe mubin'... it should be more like "Escape mubin"... a friend high up in the sydney jamat told me moments ago they have been clearly instructed not to talk about the case anymore to not raise any concerns regarding it or bring more prying eyes towards it....

HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1209

Unread post by HJK » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:39 pm

kseeker wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:24 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:21 am


You [DELETED], we do not touch the clitoris, we touch the prepuce, next time you type a message [DELETED] check your knowledge.The head of the clitoris was seen which means that it doesn't even fall in the classification of fgm. our practice does not harm the clitoris at all. You Scumbag
you sound like a proper bhakt of Mufaddal "Abu Bakr" Saifuddin.. .. I wonder if you will be able to understand the quoted text.. depends if your master gave you permission to study islam....

tell me Mr. Bhakt.. what is the reason (apart from "My mola told me to" ) a woman is supposed to get rid of her prepuce? or nip it..as you say?
suddenly after your point was proven wrong you turned to this? only this can be expected from you.

HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1210

Unread post by HJK » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:46 pm

kseeker wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:46 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:21 am


You son of a dog, we do not touch the clitoris, we touch the prepuce, next time you type a message bastard check your knowledge.The head of the clitoris was seen which means that it doesn't even fall in the classification of fgm. our practice does not harm the clitoris at all. You Scumbag

And just for your information (not that any truth apart from that given to you by the kothar and your local amilsaheb will be useful to you), what you are describing as the bohra ritual of only reducing the prepuce and comparing it to the western procedure of clitoral unhooding to get MORE sexually aroused is absolute bullshit and propogated after the US cases... because Aussie cases don't get any airtime.. but anything of this nature happens in the US, Abu Bakr's empire will be in trouble..

I have specifically asked two or three women who perform the khatna and they say it is the removal of the clitoris head to CURB sexual arousal. getting rid of the 'haraam ni boti' keeps the woman hygienic and more faithful to her husband... so please, go and spread your useless bullshit to other Bhakts like yourself..

As a matter of principle, I do not challenge or question things from Daim ul Islam as it has been written by Syedi Abu Hanifa Kazi Noman.. who is a great scholar from the semi modern era and the source of our knowledge.. I have some reservations regarding statements in it such as the earth is flat and the woman khatna thing.. but i let it be as I don't understand everything...

My concern is with the lies the Bhakt's are spreading with regards to the 'fathe mubin'... it should be more like "Escape mubin"... a friend high up in the sydney jamat told me moments ago they have been clearly instructed not to talk about the case anymore to not raise any concerns regarding it or bring more prying eyes towards it....
i do not even want to write the name you mentioned, i will just say the TB of this zamaan or the KQ coz both r the same. your sources who ever they are, are not to be trusted, we remove the prepuce which covers the tip of the clitoris. A source high up in TBs *** told me that he drinks his own pee.

Ozdundee
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1211

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:29 pm

OZD will comment soon on other issues there are cases still in progress.

All I can say the intent, as I stated many years ago, was not to jail individuals and that's not how reform is made, the intent was not to make martyrs. The affected parties should count their good fortunes.

The cases brought a difficult matter a very discreet topic to be discussed in very public global way. It forced the hand of orthodox when it was being ignored.

Yes during the case debates on this site no premature concessions are discussed and hard words were used. This was a serious mission. But Abdes too have their hypocrites who silently wanted the case to go another way. These are the spectators who bet on both sides.

Excommunication of those women who don't want FGM is yet to be resolved. That is next big thing. The case exposed other difficult findings.

Meanwhile it was for law enforcement and justice system to determine if crime was committed and law was breached. Police or Judges do not make laws, they apply laws, do not criticize them and Au judges are not corrupt at all , infact the politicians dislike them as they follow law through very narrow definition forcing parliament to update laws. The defence successfully convinced law was not broken through the long process.

You can read the Appeal recommendation. It also concludes the girls were and are touched ritually. There was evidence verbal, psychological and meficsl by victims that is undeniable.

There is 1000s of articles, surveys, media, Jamaat instructions, SMS and STF speeches on record that Bohra do perform an act that interferes with women's sexuality for good, enhancement or suppression whatever, but young girls have no choice. It is imposed on them. This can only be fought as a freedom or human rights issue.

But Au case was not about human rights or religious freedom, Though US is trying to flick it using DBWRF. It was specific on a form of FGM was commited . These religious freedom angle, what about individual freedom.

Was there FGM , was there evidence during appeal, it was not without doubt. Hence appeal outcome.

Court goes further which is a bonus to directly instruct state parliament to tighten the law on FGM so courts can apply it clearly. The legislative process takes these instructions very seriously especially when it comes from an Appeal court. I expect definition of FGM to be broadened very soon so future cases can be determined with expediency. So as any landmark case the future will benefit. Watch this space now that the case is over parliament will get involved. No risk of interference in a court process.

Yes I would have preferred a guilty outcome with suspended sentence , not jailing people, to be a deterrent.
So whoever thinks they can now go with license to khafz making khafz in Australia , it is not legal, will be met with full force of the public opinion and will land the community in deep trouble. I don't know if SMS has several $millions to bailout his Abdes over and over.

kseeker
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1212

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:25 pm

HJK wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:39 pm
kseeker wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:24 am


you sound like a proper bhakt of Mufaddal "Abu Bakr" Saifuddin.. .. I wonder if you will be able to understand the quoted text.. depends if your master gave you permission to study islam....

tell me Mr. Bhakt.. what is the reason (apart from "My mola told me to" ) a woman is supposed to get rid of her prepuce? or nip it..as you say?
suddenly after your point was proven wrong you turned to this? only this can be expected from you.
When was my point proven wrong? I am still using decent language, you unfortunately had to resort to abusing..

kseeker
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1213

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:29 pm

HJK wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:46 pm
kseeker wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:46 am



And just for your information (not that any truth apart from that given to you by the kothar and your local amilsaheb will be useful to you), what you are describing as the bohra ritual of only reducing the prepuce and comparing it to the western procedure of clitoral unhooding to get MORE sexually aroused is absolute bullshit and propogated after the US cases... because Aussie cases don't get any airtime.. but anything of this nature happens in the US, Abu Bakr's empire will be in trouble..

I have specifically asked two or three women who perform the khatna and they say it is the removal of the clitoris head to CURB sexual arousal. getting rid of the 'haraam ni boti' keeps the woman hygienic and more faithful to her husband... so please, go and spread your useless bullshit to other Bhakts like yourself..

As a matter of principle, I do not challenge or question things from Daim ul Islam as it has been written by Syedi Abu Hanifa Kazi Noman.. who is a great scholar from the semi modern era and the source of our knowledge.. I have some reservations regarding statements in it such as the earth is flat and the woman khatna thing.. but i let it be as I don't understand everything...

My concern is with the lies the Bhakt's are spreading with regards to the 'fathe mubin'... it should be more like "Escape mubin"... a friend high up in the sydney jamat told me moments ago they have been clearly instructed not to talk about the case anymore to not raise any concerns regarding it or bring more prying eyes towards it....
i do not even want to write the name you mentioned, i will just say the TB of this zamaan or the KQ coz both r the same. your sources who ever they are, are not to be trusted, we remove the prepuce which covers the tip of the clitoris. A source high up in TBs *** told me that he drinks his own pee.
My sources have performed the khatna on behen sahabs in saifee mahal... btw, did you know that some of them did not even get a khatna because their mother's said " our daughters have been born withouth this sin" ??

I am not a TF or KQ follower so your banter is falling on deaf ears..

HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1214

Unread post by HJK » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:57 am

Ozdundee wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:29 pm
OZD will comment soon on other issues there are cases still in progress.

All I can say the intent, as I stated many years ago, was not to jail individuals and that's not how reform is made, the intent was not to make martyrs. The affected parties should count their good fortunes.

The cases brought a difficult matter a very discreet topic to be discussed in very public global way. It forced the hand of orthodox when it was being ignored.

Yes during the case debates on this site no premature concessions are discussed and hard words were used. This was a serious mission. But Abdes too have their hypocrites who silently wanted the case to go another way. These are the spectators who bet on both sides.

Excommunication of those women who don't want FGM is yet to be resolved. That is next big thing. The case exposed other difficult findings.

Meanwhile it was for law enforcement and justice system to determine if crime was committed and law was breached. Police or Judges do not make laws, they apply laws, do not criticize them and Au judges are not corrupt at all , infact the politicians dislike them as they follow law through very narrow definition forcing parliament to update laws. The defence successfully convinced law was not broken through the long process.

You can read the Appeal recommendation. It also concludes the girls were and are touched ritually. There was evidence verbal, psychological and meficsl by victims that is undeniable.

There is 1000s of articles, surveys, media, Jamaat instructions, SMS and STF speeches on record that Bohra do perform an act that interferes with women's sexuality for good, enhancement or suppression whatever, but young girls have no choice. It is imposed on them. This can only be fought as a freedom or human rights issue.

But Au case was not about human rights or religious freedom, Though US is trying to flick it using DBWRF. It was specific on a form of FGM was commited . These religious freedom angle, what about individual freedom.

Was there FGM , was there evidence during appeal, it was not without doubt. Hence appeal outcome.

Court goes further which is a bonus to directly instruct state parliament to tighten the law on FGM so courts can apply it clearly. The legislative process takes these instructions very seriously especially when it comes from an Appeal court. I expect definition of FGM to be broadened very soon so future cases can be determined with expediency. So as any landmark case the future will benefit. Watch this space now that the case is over parliament will get involved. No risk of interference in a court process.

Yes I would have preferred a guilty outcome with suspended sentence , not jailing people, to be a deterrent.
So whoever thinks they can now go with license to khafz making khafz in Australia , it is not legal, will be met with full force of the public opinion and will land the community in deep trouble. I don't know if SMS has several $millions to bailout his Abdes over and over.
we are not saging that the girls were not touched they were we have always been saying the what we perform is so minute as a ritual which will never harm if performed how it has to be. That is what was proven. The judge clearly states that what was performed cannot be classified under Mutilation, we do not mutliate girls, it is a procedure less invasive than the male circumcision.

HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1215

Unread post by HJK » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:58 am

kseeker wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:29 pm
HJK wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:46 pm


i do not even want to write the name you mentioned, i will just say the TB of this zamaan or the KQ coz both r the same. your sources who ever they are, are not to be trusted, we remove the prepuce which covers the tip of the clitoris. A source high up in TBs *** told me that he drinks his own pee.
My sources have performed the khatna on behen sahabs in saifee mahal... btw, did you know that some of them did not even get a khatna because their mother's said " our daughters have been born withouth this sin" ??

I am not a TF or KQ follower so your banter is falling on deaf ears..
HAHA lol your sources. everybody comes and whispers some truth in your ears.

level_headed
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:02 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1216

Unread post by level_headed » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:47 am

Ozdundee wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:29 pm
OZD will comment soon on other issues there are cases still in progress.
Hey OzGhamandee - you have such an exaggerated sense of your self - referring to yourself in 3rd person. Saale (Brother-in-Law) itni G par laat parhee par henkdi bahot hai. Rassi jal gayee par bal nahi gaya

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1217

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:40 pm

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 483769.cms

Continuing coverage in the Supreme Court from 2 days back. I have no idea what the final ruling will be, just following the case in the media.

And another article below which talks of the social boycott and the community pressure. Can such articles, people (anonymously) be presented as evidence?

https://www.shethepeople.tv/home-top-vi ... -community

I am also wondering what the Indian government's approach is? It seems that they are being crafty - the government of PM Modi is not passing the laws to criminalize it (given his friendship with MS/QJ, etc.), but it is asking the Supreme court to call it a crime?

Can some legal mind explain if there is any legal nuances in this approach?

Reporter
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:34 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1218

Unread post by Reporter » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:39 pm

Mufaddal's lawyer justifies FGM and excommunication...

He relied on the 1962 constitution bench decision in Sardar Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb where, in striking down the Bombay Prevention of Excommunication Act of 1949, the apex court had noted that the Mishak, which every Dawoodi Bohra takes at the time of his initiation, encompasses an oath of unquestioning faith in and loyalty to the Dai, including his power to excommunicate.

Explaining that the ‘Dai’ is the living, human representation of the ‘Imam’ whose word is not to be questioned, he forwarded the “sui generis reason”, peculiar to the community, in observing the impugned practice.
Read more at: https://www.livelaw.in/female-genital-m ... m-singhvi/

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1219

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:58 pm

On August 27th, in the Supreme Court ...

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 63590.html

https://www.news18.com/news/india/genit ... 58639.html

DBWRF is arguing that they were not harmed by this practice and it left no scars (physical or emotional/psychological) on them. On the other hand there are plenty of brave women who are telling their stories on sahiyo and on We Speak out and other places, and they are saying that they were genuinely harmed by this act.

And then the DBWRF is saying that if you restrict this, you may also restrict male circumcision. I believe that it is a specious argument, and I hope that the Supreme court leans on the side of under-inclusion is permitted and still puts a restriction on this practice.

As many women have said that they were hurt by this practice, I would think that the Supreme court should protect even one person, if she is hurt, and I hope they put some restriction. At the least, the Supreme Court should not allow the practice on minors. When women become adults, they can consent of their free will to go thru it. I am NOT saying this is ideal, but I hope at least that is the minimum that the court does.

I understand that the above is the Fatemi Dawat position; and I don't want to make this a FD vs. MS-dawat issue.

I just hope that the Supreme Court at least puts some restriction (at a minimum) on this procedure for non-consenting minors.

allbird
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1220

Unread post by allbird » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:57 am

They do it to minors because they can be fooled and enticed / forced into it. No consenting adult will bother getting it done. Women are biggest enemy of women as mothers , grandmothers and aunties will take innocent minors to homes and pinned them down and get over and done with.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1221

Unread post by seeker110 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:31 am

Today in the Guardian
gender equality
Female genital mutilation (FGM)
UK and US border officials join forces in bid to tackle female genital mutilation
Information from airport interviews to be shared as part of Anglo-US drive to protect potential victims

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Rebecca Ratcliffe

Fri 7 Sep 2018 01.00 EDT

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A Border Force official speaks to passengers following their arrival at Heathrow airport
A Border Force official speaks to passengers following their arrival at Heathrow airport. Photograph: Courtesy of @ukhomeofficegov
British police and border security will share intelligence on female genital mutilation with US counterparts as part of a drive to increase prosecutions and prevent abuse.

Information on flight paths and investigations will be shared between the UK authorities and US agencies, including the FBI and Department of Homeland Security.

“We do a lot of work with the US anyway in terms of serious and organised crime – it’s one of the best relationships we have. If they [US agencies] have an investigation, intelligence, or tactics that they’ve used, we’ll be able to share that,” Ivan Balhatchet, National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) lead for FGM.


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There are elements of organised crime involved in FGM, Balhatchet said, but under-reporting and a lack of intelligence are major barriers for security services.

“There are cutters, who are being paid.” he said. “People are being paid to commit child abuse. In any other walk of life you would call that organised crime. It’s not all like that –- there’s [also] inter-familial [abuse].”

In May, campaigners welcomed news of two forced marriage convictions in one week. But while FGM has been illegal in the UK for more than three decades, there has not yet been a successful prosecution.

Between January and March this year, there were 1,030 newly recorded cases of FGM in England, according to NHS figures. Figures from the NPCC show that FGM protection orders, which safeguard actual or potential victims under civil law, were granted 220 timesbetween 2015, when they were introduced, to the end of March 2018.

A pilot project investigating how to improve the effectiveness of these orders, which until recently were not collated centrally, has been launched by the Ministry of Justice and the NPCC.

FGM is believed to be taking place both abroad and in the UK, with Border Force staff also tracking suspicious packages. “Sometimes you’ll see beads used for ceremonies, razor blades, or different liquids, sometimes you might see sanitary towels,” said Amanda Read, national operational lead for safeguarding at the Border Force, who said staff routinely look for indicators of FGM.

To mark the agreement with US agencies, officers held intelligence-gathering operations at airports across the UK, as well as JFK Airport in New York.

Teams from Operation Limelight, which aims to raise awareness at airports and is carried out by border officials, police and charities, targeted inbound flights from countries where FGM and forced marriage are prevalent.

Staff look for anything unusual – a person’s demeanour, if they are uncomfortable walking, or if someone else is holding their passport.

During an operation at Heathrow on Thursday, specialist teams identified three people who might be at risk. Their names, addresses and school details will be forwarded to local agencies such as social services. A six-year-old girl’s details were taken for referral after staff found that she couldn’t or wouldn’t speak to them.

Polly Harrar, founder of the Sharan Project, which supports survivors of forced marriages and “honour crimes”, said that while teams will focus on particular flights, they approach all travellers so that no community feels they are being singled out.

Speaking from Heathrow, where she was assisting Operation Limelight, she said there should be a far greater focus on prevention. “Part of that is education, part of it is sustainable working within community, so that it’s community-led, not dictated,” she added.


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One mother, Afuwa, who arrived in the UK with her family following a holiday in Uganda, said she welcomed efforts by agencies to raise awareness. She said she was aware of communities practising FGM in northern Uganda. “That’s their culture,” she said, although she added that it is not something her family believes in.

Dr Leyla Hussein, a trained psychotherapist and founder of the Dahlia project, a counselling service for FGM survivors, said survivors needed existing support was sporadic and needed to be greatly improved.

“We still don’t have safe houses that girls can go to. They usually end up in hospital by themselves, extremely isolated, and they end up going back to their families anyway,” said Hussein.

“The moment you go against parents you have gone against all your wider family. The battle will just get bigger. We need to ensure they have care.”

Ozdundee
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1222

Unread post by Ozdundee » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:57 pm

Watch this space!

How blessed that during Ashura to inform that the oppressed young girls in the community have someone somewhere fighting for their rights.

Australian authorities are now well advanced considering the federal/ commonwealth High Court challenge to judgment from the state based court of appeal.

India and USA are in full speed...all engines firing.

Hope when hopelessness was creeping in.

Ozdundee
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1223

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:26 am

How blessed that during Ashura to inform that the oppressed young girls in the community have someone somewhere fighting for their rights.

Australian authorities are now well advanced considering the federal/ commonwealth High Court challenge to judgment from the state based court of appeal.

India and USA are in full speed...all engines firing.

Hope when hopelessness was creeping in.


objectiveobserver53
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1225

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:44 pm

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:42 pm
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 350_1.html

Related to Mr. Modi's visit to Indore?

The flaw in the religious freedom argument is that religious freedom should extend to doing harm to one’s own body, not to the body of one’s child.

Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1226

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:04 pm

Benefits of having a corrupt head of state as your "Friend with Benefits"
First SBUT CEO Shoaib bhaisaheb gets out of jail and now this..

https://theprint.in/politics/modi-govt- ... ad/124750/

SBM
Posts: 6243
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1227

Unread post by SBM » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:24 pm

Feds level new charges in genital mutilation case
Robert Snell, The Detroit News Published 5:27 p.m. ET Sept. 12, 2018 | Updated 6:26 a.m. ET Sept. 13, 2018

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 283383002/

WYP
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1228

Unread post by WYP » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:47 pm

....... waiting for reactions ......

calling a harmless procedure as Mutilation may work to drum up media reaction...but Alhamdolillah the Justice system does not work in a reactionary way.

Whats next for you guys? Is OzD coming up with another <watch this space> post?

Mufaddal Maula Zindabad!


SBM
Posts: 6243
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#1230

Unread post by SBM » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:29 pm

If you read the entire story, this was acquittal from federal prosecution based on constitutionality, but it is still illegal in State of Michigan and State charges may be coming up
She is still facing conspiracy charges which is coming up for trial in August of 2019
Regardless, her life and savings have ruined I am glad that she can spent time with her children and family but watch out, federal prosecutors do not take their losses that lightly.