Questions for Knowledge

[SBM]

Salaam
I like to get answers to the following questions. This is not for debate purpose but for knowledge
1- What is the purpose of Namaz-e-Istiftah?
2- Do Bohras observe "Aatikaaf" during last 10 days of Ramadan ( it is mentioned in Quran- Surah Al Baqrah Ayay 125)
3- Why do Bohras say 21st Raat Mubarak ( in Ramadan ) when it is a somber occasion when Moula Ali departed this world.

[Qadir]

1) Istiftah namaz is basically a pre-bihori namaz. It is prayed before you start praying bihori namaz. There's tawil behind it but I cannot say it here.

2) No. Need raza from Aqa Moula for that which is pretty much impossible to get. I am pretty sure the ayat you mentioned doesn't say anything about ihtikaaf. Quran doesn't say anything about this practice. Even if quran does, it must have tawil behind it.

3) Because 21st raat is lailatul qadr-us-Sughra which is why we say mubarak. Its independent of Moulana Ali's wafaat. Just like how Rasulallah's wafat is on Eid e Milad but we still say mubarak.

[SBM]

1) Istiftah namaz is basically a pre-bihori namaz. It is prayed before you start praying bihori namaz. There's tawil behind it but I cannot say it here.

2) No. Need raza from Aqa Moula for that which is pretty much impossible to get. I am pretty sure the ayat you mentioned doesn't say anything about ihtikaaf. Quran doesn't say anything about this practice. Even if quran does, it must have tawil behind it.

3) Because 21st raat is lailatul qadr-us-Sughra which is why we say mubarak. Its independent of Moulana Ali's wafaat. Just like how Rasulallah's wafat is on Eid e Milad but we still say mubarak.

Br Qadir-
Why every time a religious question is asked, they hide behind TAAWIL, if you gain knowledge and can not share it-what is the purpose of that knowledge
Quran specifically mention about doing Aitikaf in Masaajids so Aqua Moula's RAZA is more important then Quran's Hidaya
Eid Milad is celebrate due to Prophet's Birth and not Death so you know.

[Qadir]

1) Istiftah namaz is basically a pre-bihori namaz. It is prayed before you start praying bihori namaz. There's tawil behind it but I cannot say it here.

2) No. Need raza from Aqa Moula for that which is pretty much impossible to get. I am pretty sure the ayat you mentioned doesn't say anything about ihtikaaf. Quran doesn't say anything about this practice. Even if quran does, it must have tawil behind it.

3) Because 21st raat is lailatul qadr-us-Sughra which is why we say mubarak. Its independent of Moulana Ali's wafaat. Just like how Rasulallah's wafat is on Eid e Milad but we still say mubarak.

Br Qadir-
Why every time a religious question is asked, they hide behind TAAWIL, if you gain knowledge and can not share it-what is the purpose of that knowledge
Quran specifically mention about doing Aitikaf in Masaajids so Aqua Moula's RAZA is more important then Quran's Hidaya
Eid Milad is celebrate due to Prophet's Birth and not Death so you know.

Tawil of kitabs and Quran is open to interpretation by the zamaan's Imam or Dai. I gain knowledge for my own satisfaction and just like how you want it right now. The only difference is I attended months and months of sabaqs before I got answers to my questions. Its important to get the sabaqs properly so that you can understand the answer accurately.

Aqa Moula's raza is more important than atleast the literal meaning of Quran. This is because the literal meaning is just not correct. What's the point of following the Quran when you are going against the wishes of Aqa Moula who personifies Quran itself? Also please provide proper ayat in quran which mentions this practice.

Its correct that Eid Milad is celebrated because of Rasulallah's viladat. It proves my point that Birth of Rasulallah takes precedence over his shahadat. Similarly, the fazalat of the Raat of 21st Ramzaan takes precedence over Moulana Ali's wafaat. One says Mubarak for the Raat and not Moulana Ali's wafaat.

[Ambassador_Mumbai]

Salaam
I like to get answers to the following questions. This is not for debate purpose but for knowledge
1- What is the purpose of Namaz-e-Istiftah?

It is a Salaat before Dua al Istiftaah, Before asking Allah for something we worship him. So we are asking him to open the door of Rahmah. Before we ask him to do so, we pray Salaat al istiftaah to earn his pleasure.

2- Do Bohras observe "Aatikaaf" during last 10 days of Ramadan ( it is mentioned in Quran- Surah Al Baqrah Ayay 125)

Yes, unfortunately it is not that prevalent anymore. But some old mutaqqi parhezgaar folks still do it. Anyways, it is not fard..

3- Why do Bohras say 21st Raat Mubarak ( in Ramadan ) when it is a somber occasion when Moula Ali departed this world.

We say either Mubarak, for it is one of the distinguished and highly auspicious of the last 10 night of Shehrullah and we also say Moula Ali ni Shahaadat ni mubarak raat ma dua ni iltemas chey.. we believe that the days/nights of birth and passing away of Awliyaullah are not ordinary days but highly auspicious and sanctified and these days/nights are seen as an opportunity to earn pleasure of Allah by involving oneself in acts of Ibadah and charity in the light of Quran and Sunna.

[SBM]

Also please provide proper ayat in quran which mentions this practice.

Surah Al Baqra Ayah 125

What's the point of following the Quran when you are going against the wishes of Aqa Moula who personifies Quran itself

Really SMS personifies Quran?

[SBM]

Moula Ali ni Shahaadat ni mubarak raat ma dua ni iltemas chey.

Exactly my point how can be the Shadat of Moula Ali can be a Mubarak raat?

[awakenedsoul]

Salaam
I like to get answers to the following questions. This is not for debate purpose but for knowledge
1- What is the purpose of Namaz-e-Istiftah?
2- Do Bohras observe "Aatikaaf" during last 10 days of Ramadan ( it is mentioned in Quran- Surah Al Baqrah Ayay 125)
3- Why do Bohras say 21st Raat Mubarak ( in Ramadan ) when it is a somber occasion when Moula Ali departed this world.

1. It is an opening prayer. Sort of a prelude to nisf-ul-lail. As for whether there is any taweel behind it I have no idea
2. Bohras don't practice itikaaf in the traditional sense. I remember being taught the zikr of Rasulullah SAW in madrasa, about how he used to observe itikaaf and not even go to his bed for 10 days. I personally know people who take a leave from their businesses/work and devote the final daska of sherullah to do ibadat. They usually stay in the masjid from fajar till afternoon, go for a nap, come back for magrib prayers and again for nisful lail. I don't think any bohras literally reside in the mosque for 10 days. No raza needed to my knowledge.
3. The word 'Mubarak' is used in multiple contexts. In this case it means the night is blessed, blessed because that is the night Moulana Ali chose to depart this world. 'Mubarak' is used to highlight the significance of that particular night, not mark it as a happy occasion.

[RedBox]

Qadir bau uncha level no gaando che

Good scientist nathi bano nai to badhi invention ne chupawi ne rakhto ane kehto secret che khali mola saathej share karis...

brainwashed

awa gaanda bau che bohra world maa, in real world hu aawa gaandao thi 10 km no distance maintain kari ne rakhu chu...

[RedBox]

I am interested to know what is next for bohras since they dont believe in coming of Imam

nalayak baap naa nalayak chora nu dai banwu continue thaya karse, or is there any end to it.

[SBM]

Good Explanation Br/Sr Awakendsoul
I got the same explanation from other source regarding 21 Raat Mubarak but that brings another question to mind
Doing Maatam is expression of grief and getting a Darja of Shahadat is some thing of celebration. It is said that a Shaheed is guaranteed Janah and traditionally a family celebrate and not grieve the life of Shaheed
SO
Why do we do Maatam and grieve on the Shahdat of Imam Hussain? Should not we celebrate his Shahdaat knowing that he did for the pleasure of Allaha knowing well what he and his family sacrificing.
I donot expect to get reply from Qadir because it will become Taawil and he is not be allowed to share his knowledge

[SBM]

I gain knowledge for my own satisfaction and just like how you want it right now

So question is
Since you are doing your Ph.D. would you share your thesis or would you keep it secret just for your knowledge.
Remember everyone who does Ph.D. always looks to publish his/her work.

[awakenedsoul]

Good Explanation Br/Sr Awakendsoul
I got the same explanation from other source regarding 21 Raat Mubarak but that brings another question to mind
Doing Maatam is expression of grief and getting a Darja of Shahadat is some thing of celebration. It is said that a Shaheed is guaranteed Janah and traditionally a family celebrate and not grieve the life of Shaheed
SO
Why do we do Maatam and grieve on the Shahdat of Imam Hussain? Should not we celebrate his Shahdaat knowing that he did for the pleasure of Allaha knowing well what he and his family sacrificing.
I donot expect to get reply from Qadir because it will become Taawil and he is not be allowed to share his knowledge

One of the core differences between shias and sunnis is our love of ahle bait. Thinking about the atrocities committed in Karbala does your heart not weep my brother? Think about the pain caused to Rasulullah (SAW), Moulana Ali (AS), Maa Fatema (AS) and Imam Hassan (AS). It is the regret of losing a noble person like Imam Hussein, someone truly unique sent by Allah to guide us, a person who truly embodied Islam and refused to bow down to a tyrant. And along with him the 72 brave souls who stood by him knowing they faced certain death. When we think about all these things we feel a deep sense of loss and so we grieve and do matam.

However, I do not agree with how the community has recently started forcing people to attend ashara, or the practice of noha aweel. In my opinion everyone processes grief differently and gham should be done from the heart, one should really feel it.

[byculla]

Just to give additional perspective to @SBM discussion, the quran ayat (#125 from Surah Baqarah - I am pasting it from online google search) is as attached. It doesn't specifically talk about ihtiqaf in Ramadanul Moazzam but zikr is about Ibrahim Nabi and about Allah Subhaanahu ordaining him to clean Kabatullah for those who 'stay' for prayers. I could be wrong but this is based on my limited knowledge and translation I read.

Also, the basis for all Shia's worldwide crying on Imam Husain AS is the hadees of Rasulullah SA - 'Man baka aw abka aw tabaaka ala wadial Husain wajabat lahul janna' - whoever cries, makes others cry or pretends to cry (for those who can't) they will enter jannat. Sunnis deny this hadees.

[SBM]

Thank you both.
Byculla- your sing in name is of special interest since I used to live in Byculla area of Mumbai and just visited last month

[SBM]

I also got an explanation from a former Sabbaq graduate who left Bohra fold after he opened his eyes from this forum's posting and some very professional and educated discussion over here.
"Concept of Aitikaf is there but practice is not there"

[awakenedsoul]

Regarding maatam and gham of Imam Hussein(AS) it is also the belief of the bohras that the sacrifice of Imam Hussein and his ahle bait was supposedly payment of a debt on Rasulullah (SAW), we don't know exactly what this debt was. I am not sure whether this concept exists in other Shia school of thoughts. Also since none of the panjatan pak (AS) lived to do matam on imam Hussein it is believed that the shias have a sacred duty to fulfill mourning for him as referenced in the Hadith quoted by @byculla. Hence the mourning of imam Hussein has become the cornerstone of dawoodi bohra faith further reinforced by concepts like "tamam cheez no khulaso imam Hussein ni zikr che"

[SBM]

So now I am going to ask ajamali and followers of STF
What is their view on Aitikaff Namaz, why Bohras do not observe even though it is mentioned in Quran ( Al Baqrah- Ayah 125)
Also does STF provides Sabaq and are people who enrolled in those Sabaq have to take Oath not to share knowledge with anyone including their Spouses?
Hope to get a better answer then what STS follower Qadir provided

[SBM]

No Response from STF followers to my above question??

[SBM]

So now I am going to ask ajamali and followers of STF
What is their view on Aitikaff Namaz, why Bohras do not observe even though it is mentioned in Quran ( Al Baqrah- Ayah 125)
Also does STF provides Sabaq and are people who enrolled in those Sabaq have to take Oath not to share knowledge with anyone including their Spouses?
Hope to get a better answer then what STS follower Qadir provided

SILENCE IS DEAFNING

[byculla]

So now I am going to ask ajamali and followers of STF
What is their view on Aitikaff Namaz, why Bohras do not observe even though it is mentioned in Quran ( Al Baqrah- Ayah 125)
Also does STF provides Sabaq and are people who enrolled in those Sabaq have to take Oath not to share knowledge with anyone including their Spouses?
Hope to get a better answer then what STS follower Qadir provided

About Aitikaff, firstly I don't think it is followed by that many muslims in general. Most of my Muslim friends don't observe. With online google search, I found following variations of methods in which its observed.

(1) Keep oneself within confines of a Masjid for 10 days continuously. I think this not observed that much nowadays.
(2) Go to Masjid and stay over there between maghrib and fajr and observe prayers as much as possible with intermittent sleep. This is the Aitikaaf mostly observed by muslims (if at all).

For one, Dawoodi bohras do observe behori namaz. I know many who observe Bihori namaz all 30 nights of Sherullahil Moazzam. Many (I would think at least 20%) do it on all Friday nights and on 17th, 19th, 21st, 23rd and 30th nights of Sherullahil Moazzam. (it makes it almost 10 days similar to Aitikaff).

I think in practice, you may find more sunni muslims staying awake during last 10 days than dawoodi bohras 'In Search of Lailatul Qadr'. Rasulullah did not openly say which night is lailatul qadr. He wanted the fazl of lailatul qadr to be known only to Shias of Amirul Mumineen SA. Rasulullah SA was asked about this number of times but he did not openly answer. He "indicated" which nights it could be. There are many hadees about it one in which he ordained its in last 10 days of Ramadaan. For this reason, while majority of Sunni Muslims think its 27th night of Ramadaan, its their "educated" guess largely. Part of reason they observe Aitikaaf is they don't want to miss any night last 10 days just in case one of the night happens to be lailatul qadr.

On the topic of sabaks my response is it "depends". Any zahir sabak we are allowed to talk about it to anyone. Any taweel or haqiqat sabak we not allowed to talk. Its my understanding that one reason (amongst others) is that the level of knowledge in haqiqat is very high and since we're still students, likelihood that we may transmit it incorrectly to others is high. We may corrupt (so to speak) the sanctity of the original knowledge.

[ajamali]

So now I am going to ask ajamali and followers of STF
What is their view on Aitikaff Namaz, why Bohras do not observe even though it is mentioned in Quran ( Al Baqrah- Ayah 125)
Also does STF provides Sabaq and are people who enrolled in those Sabaq have to take Oath not to share knowledge with anyone including their Spouses?
Hope to get a better answer then what STS follower Qadir provided

Dude it was Eid and the last few days of Ramadan. Cut me some slack. Have not been in this site for a few days. And seriously, if you think I am some sort of official spokesperson for FD, you are sadly mistaken. I am just someone who has reasoned out that STF speaks the truth and that the MS claim is riddled with deception - much to the chagrin of my family. I am trying to educate myself via the many Sabaks widely available from FD but I am far from being able to tell you what the official FD position is on Aitikaff. You can write to info@fatemidawat.com if you need official answers.

I did read the translation of verse 125 of Al Baqarah. It does not sound at all related to Aitikaff. You should read a few translations yourself.

[SBM]

I did read the translation of verse 125 of Al Baqarah. It does not sound at all related to Aitikaff. You should read a few translations yourself.

So what is your interpretation
Here is another source
http://en.wikishia.net/view/I%27tikaf

[ajamali]

I did read the translation of verse 125 of Al Baqarah. It does not sound at all related to Aitikaff. You should read a few translations yourself.

So what is your interpretation
Here is another source
http://en.wikishia.net/view/I%27tikaf

SBM don’t get hung up on one ritual vs another. Go with first principles. The idea of Shere Ramadan is to do ibaadat. Some people choose to spend many many hours in the masjid reading Quran and praying tattawo namaaz, others stay at home and read one whole Quran each day. It does not make one person’s ibaadat better than another’s. If some people want to live in the masjid so be it. It just does not sound like a very practical thing to do vis a vis tahaarat and the cleanliness of the masjid itself. As a regular Joe Blo, I have never seen what you describe in Bohra masjids but that does not mean that I have not seen people immerse themselves in ibaadat during Shehrullah to the exclusion of all else other than personal hygiene!

[SBM]

Br Ajamali
You are all over the place
I asked a simple question about Aitikaf Namaz and not the lecture about doing other Ibadats. Seems like you made my simple question into
TAWEEL Bayan. I never compared or discussed Fazilat of one over other, just a simple question and you just went all over comparing
You even told me that I did not read correct translation of Surah but did not give your interpretation instead went on lethargic comparison.

[Qadir]

Br Ajamali
You are all over the place
I asked a simple question about Aitikaf Namaz and not the lecture about doing other Ibadats. Seems like you made my simple question into
TAWEEL Bayan. I never compared or discussed Fazilat of one over other, just a simple question and you just went all over comparing
You even told me that I did not read correct translation of Surah but did not give your interpretation instead went on lethargic comparison.

What Ajamali said is actually pretty on point. Bohras believe that practicing Aitikaaf is not really that significant compared to general ibaadat preferably in masjid or even in homes. Doing the amal is important, not the place. It is important to go to masjid for namaz but apart from that any amal done anywhere is same. You can choose to do it in masjid like pray quran majeed or go for bihori namaz but you can also choose to do this at your home.
Aitikaaf is not banned from dawat, as you can still get raza for practicing it. More generally people ask to practice aitikaaf in rozas (especially, galiyakot and burhanpur) instead of masjid, and raza used to be easier to get before but now its very hard.

[ajamali]

Br Ajamali
You are all over the place
I asked a simple question about Aitikaf Namaz and not the lecture about doing other Ibadats. Seems like you made my simple question into
TAWEEL Bayan. I never compared or discussed Fazilat of one over other, just a simple question and you just went all over comparing
You even told me that I did not read correct translation of Surah but did not give your interpretation instead went on lethargic comparison.

I have no opinion on Aitikaff since I have not been exposed to it. This was the interpretation I saw. It does not seem prescriptive of Aitikaff. There may be some taweel behind it perhaps?

[SBM]

Thank you Br Ajamali and Br Qadir