> the point of the apology is that it proves - if proof was ever needed - that the Dai of our time is not beyond mistake.
While I think qiyam's argument regarding the apology is a fair one, and don't think it implies the fallibility that some claim it does, I do think the proof of fallibility lies in the Qur'an itself.
One thing I have never felt was properly explained in any dawah doctrine I've encountered: if the Qur'an says unequivocally that the Prophet himself made mistakes, how can the dai claim to be immune from doing the same?
Letter of Sayedna's apology
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
.
Br. qiyam
Cursing is highly discouraged by Allah SWT and his Rasool SAW.
You might want to consider the following Ayah
Allah SWT says in Surah A-Hashr
10 And those who came after them [All who attained belief in Quran and Prophet (Razi)] say: "Our Lord! Forgive us and our brethren who came before us into the Faith and leave not in our hearts rancor (or sense of injury) against those who have believed our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness Most Merciful." 5384 (Yusuf Ali).
5384 Those that came after them: the immediate meaning would refer to later arrivals in Madinah or later accessions to Islam, compared with the early Muhajirs. But the general meaning would include all future comers into the House of Islam. They pray, not only for themselves, but also for all their brethren, and above all, they pray that their hearts may be purified of any desire or tendency to disparage the work or virtues of other Muslims or to feel any jealousy on account of their successes or good fortune.
Imam Malik used this honorable Ayah to declare that Rafidah (A group of Shiites) who curse the companions do not have share of Fai money, because they do not have good qualities of whom Allah has described in the Ayah Qouted (Tafsir Ibn Kathir Volume 9 page 566)
Ibn Hatim recorded that Aishah RA said, “They were commanded to invoke Allah to forgive them (Companions), but instead, they cursed them!” She then recited the Ayah 59:10. [Muslim recorded similar narration 4:2317](Tafsir Ibn Kathir Volume 9 page 566)
Also please consider following Ayahs
60:7 It may well be that Allah will put love between you and those with whom you are now at odds because of the order which is given to you, for Allah is All-Powerful, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Malik)
60: 7 It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies: for Allah has power (over all things); and Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. 5420
5420 Apparent religious hatred or enmity or persecution may be due to ignorance or over-zeal in a soul, which Allah will forgive and use eventually in His service.
Prophet SAW has said : “Did I not find you misguided, and Allah SWT guided you thru me; and divided, and Allah SWT united [your hearts] thru me? (Fath al-Bari 7:644]
In another Hadith Prophet SAW has said: “ Love your loved ones moderately, because one day, he might become your enemy. Hate your hated one moderately, because one day, he might become your loved one. [Tuhfat Al-Ahwadhi 6:133]
Wasalaam
.
Br. qiyam
Cursing is highly discouraged by Allah SWT and his Rasool SAW.
You might want to consider the following Ayah
Allah SWT says in Surah A-Hashr
10 And those who came after them [All who attained belief in Quran and Prophet (Razi)] say: "Our Lord! Forgive us and our brethren who came before us into the Faith and leave not in our hearts rancor (or sense of injury) against those who have believed our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness Most Merciful." 5384 (Yusuf Ali).
5384 Those that came after them: the immediate meaning would refer to later arrivals in Madinah or later accessions to Islam, compared with the early Muhajirs. But the general meaning would include all future comers into the House of Islam. They pray, not only for themselves, but also for all their brethren, and above all, they pray that their hearts may be purified of any desire or tendency to disparage the work or virtues of other Muslims or to feel any jealousy on account of their successes or good fortune.
Imam Malik used this honorable Ayah to declare that Rafidah (A group of Shiites) who curse the companions do not have share of Fai money, because they do not have good qualities of whom Allah has described in the Ayah Qouted (Tafsir Ibn Kathir Volume 9 page 566)
Ibn Hatim recorded that Aishah RA said, “They were commanded to invoke Allah to forgive them (Companions), but instead, they cursed them!” She then recited the Ayah 59:10. [Muslim recorded similar narration 4:2317](Tafsir Ibn Kathir Volume 9 page 566)
Also please consider following Ayahs
60:7 It may well be that Allah will put love between you and those with whom you are now at odds because of the order which is given to you, for Allah is All-Powerful, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Malik)
60: 7 It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies: for Allah has power (over all things); and Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. 5420
5420 Apparent religious hatred or enmity or persecution may be due to ignorance or over-zeal in a soul, which Allah will forgive and use eventually in His service.
Prophet SAW has said : “Did I not find you misguided, and Allah SWT guided you thru me; and divided, and Allah SWT united [your hearts] thru me? (Fath al-Bari 7:644]
In another Hadith Prophet SAW has said: “ Love your loved ones moderately, because one day, he might become your enemy. Hate your hated one moderately, because one day, he might become your loved one. [Tuhfat Al-Ahwadhi 6:133]
Wasalaam
.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Bukhari and Muslim in the Sahih, Allama Samhudi in Ta'rikhu'l-Medina, Abu'l-Faraj Bin Jauzi in Kitabu'r-Radd Ala'l-Muta'asibu'l-Anid, Sibt Ibn Jauzi in Tadhkira-e-Khawasu'l-Umma, Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal in Musnad and others quote the Holy Prophet as saying: "If anyone frightens and oppresses the people of Medina, Allah will frighten him (i.e., on the Day of Judgement). He will be cursed by Allah, by the angels, and by all humanity. And on the Day of Judgement, Allah will not accept any of his deeds."
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Humsafar/Porus,
Your joining two separate issue to prove your point...which is not correct. Hurting fellow muslim purposefully is a religious and ethical issue. It was not Sayedna intent to hurt the sunnis. He apologized because they were hurt. But again what he said was the truth...no sunni nor shiah can deny the basis for it. Thus your connections of the two cannot be substiated.
Regarding cursing...I already quoted an ayat of the Quran where Allah curses the munafiqs. In the Quran, entire clans were destroyed for their actions...these were cursed by Allah. The sunni sahih sittah record many times the Prophet cursing individuals and peoples, for example:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet cursed the one who did Muthla to an animal (i e., cut its limbs or some other part of its body while it is still alive).
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the one who accepted usury, the one who paid it, the witness to it, and the one who recorded it.
etc..the Prophet cursed persons and people based on their actions...so why it so unusal to cursed those companions for attacking the Prophet's family?
For me to uphold the teachings of the Prophet is to first step in my spirtual knowledge. Without it...no one can advance further.
Regarding "saving skin"...from whom...are not shiahs across the world still do takfir of these cursed people? Have the sunni who support there actions..come up with any new excuse for them? Are we as bohra doing anything different? NO. What is your point in continually bringing that up?
Your joining two separate issue to prove your point...which is not correct. Hurting fellow muslim purposefully is a religious and ethical issue. It was not Sayedna intent to hurt the sunnis. He apologized because they were hurt. But again what he said was the truth...no sunni nor shiah can deny the basis for it. Thus your connections of the two cannot be substiated.
Regarding cursing...I already quoted an ayat of the Quran where Allah curses the munafiqs. In the Quran, entire clans were destroyed for their actions...these were cursed by Allah. The sunni sahih sittah record many times the Prophet cursing individuals and peoples, for example:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet cursed the one who did Muthla to an animal (i e., cut its limbs or some other part of its body while it is still alive).
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the one who accepted usury, the one who paid it, the witness to it, and the one who recorded it.
etc..the Prophet cursed persons and people based on their actions...so why it so unusal to cursed those companions for attacking the Prophet's family?
For me to uphold the teachings of the Prophet is to first step in my spirtual knowledge. Without it...no one can advance further.
Regarding "saving skin"...from whom...are not shiahs across the world still do takfir of these cursed people? Have the sunni who support there actions..come up with any new excuse for them? Are we as bohra doing anything different? NO. What is your point in continually bringing that up?
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
.
Br. qiyam
Go ahead and curse all you want. Curse 24 hours a day. I think anybody who thinks he has to curse to go to Jannah should do it.
Wasalaam
.
Br. qiyam
Go ahead and curse all you want. Curse 24 hours a day. I think anybody who thinks he has to curse to go to Jannah should do it.
Wasalaam
.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
I fully appreciate Br. MF's exasperation at Br. Qiyam's responses.
Having read extensively on the characteristics of highly evolved spiritual beings and also having met several of them, I can unequivocally say that they would not curse anybody. They are immersed in tyhe love of God and His creation and abide in that spiritual state for almost the entire time.
That is why I take all ahadith referring to any cursing by the Prophet with more than a grain of salt. In fact, I just do not believe them.
If we are to believe that Muhammad reached the highest spiritual station any human can achieve, then anyone ascribing cursing to him is probably projecting his on inadequacies on the Prophet.
Cursing may be a Shia article of faith but it flatly contradicts their belief that it is the deeds of the person while alive that will determine their final abode. It is an infantile attitude which condemns entire Shiism to ridicule by all progressive cultures.
Having read extensively on the characteristics of highly evolved spiritual beings and also having met several of them, I can unequivocally say that they would not curse anybody. They are immersed in tyhe love of God and His creation and abide in that spiritual state for almost the entire time.
That is why I take all ahadith referring to any cursing by the Prophet with more than a grain of salt. In fact, I just do not believe them.
If we are to believe that Muhammad reached the highest spiritual station any human can achieve, then anyone ascribing cursing to him is probably projecting his on inadequacies on the Prophet.
Cursing may be a Shia article of faith but it flatly contradicts their belief that it is the deeds of the person while alive that will determine their final abode. It is an infantile attitude which condemns entire Shiism to ridicule by all progressive cultures.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Do not subject God's name to your casual swearing, that you may appear righteous, pious, or to attain credibility among the people. God is Hearer, Knower. [2:224]
God does not like the utterance of bad language, unless one is treated with gross injustice. God is Hearer, Knower. [4:148]
Do not curse the idols they set up beside God, lest they blaspheme and curse God, out of ignorance… [6:108]
And when the ignorant speak to them [the believers], they only utter peace. [25:63]
Not equal are the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend. [41:34]
salaam
God does not like the utterance of bad language, unless one is treated with gross injustice. God is Hearer, Knower. [4:148]
Do not curse the idols they set up beside God, lest they blaspheme and curse God, out of ignorance… [6:108]
And when the ignorant speak to them [the believers], they only utter peace. [25:63]
Not equal are the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend. [41:34]
salaam
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Porus,
I love how you adhere to only part of the message..the parts YOU feel are spirtual..that YOU feel advance YOU. YOU see Allah says
[9.68] Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment.
That's a pretty clear statement that we muslims must separate ourselves from the ideas and conjecture of those who are defined as the "hypocrites" and "unbelievers" Allah refers to.
The Prophet and Imams are an examples of a what a mumin should strive for. As part of that we must separate ourselves from those that fought or defied them (the munafiqs and unbelievers). This is called BARAT. Why barat? Because Allah has over and over again destroyed the generations of those who disobeying Him and His messengers. He has cursed them. We, as muslims and muminin, want to with those whom Allah told us to be with...the salihin.
[2.159] Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, these it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them (too).
[2.160] Except those who repent and amend and make manifest (the truth), these it is to whom I turn (mercifully); and I am the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
[2.161] Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all.
Why does Allah tell us to curse those who conceal the His truths and guidance if your spirtual methods are correct??
Allah then says:
[3.86] How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Apostle was true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[3.87] (As for) these, their reward is that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and of men, all together.
Here a word of advice:
[63.1] When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Apostle; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Apostle, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
[63.2] They make their oaths a shelter, and thus turn away from Allah's way; surely evil is that which they do.
[63.3] That is because they believe, then disbelieve, so a seal is set upon their hearts so that they do not understand.
[63.4] And when you see them, their persons will please you, and If they speak, you will listen to their speech; (they are) as if they were big pieces of wood clad with garments; they think every cry to be against them. They are the enemy, therefore beware of them; may Allah destroy them, whence are they turned back?
[63.5] And when it is said to them: Come, the Apostle of Allah will ask forgiveness for you, they turn back their heads and you may see them turning away while they are big with pride.
[63.6] It is alike to them whether you beg
forgiveness for them or do not beg forgiveness for them; Allah will never forgive them; surely Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
I love how you adhere to only part of the message..the parts YOU feel are spirtual..that YOU feel advance YOU. YOU see Allah says
[9.68] Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment.
That's a pretty clear statement that we muslims must separate ourselves from the ideas and conjecture of those who are defined as the "hypocrites" and "unbelievers" Allah refers to.
The Prophet and Imams are an examples of a what a mumin should strive for. As part of that we must separate ourselves from those that fought or defied them (the munafiqs and unbelievers). This is called BARAT. Why barat? Because Allah has over and over again destroyed the generations of those who disobeying Him and His messengers. He has cursed them. We, as muslims and muminin, want to with those whom Allah told us to be with...the salihin.
[2.159] Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, these it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them (too).
[2.160] Except those who repent and amend and make manifest (the truth), these it is to whom I turn (mercifully); and I am the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
[2.161] Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all.
Why does Allah tell us to curse those who conceal the His truths and guidance if your spirtual methods are correct??
Allah then says:
[3.86] How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Apostle was true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[3.87] (As for) these, their reward is that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and of men, all together.
Here a word of advice:
[63.1] When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Apostle; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Apostle, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
[63.2] They make their oaths a shelter, and thus turn away from Allah's way; surely evil is that which they do.
[63.3] That is because they believe, then disbelieve, so a seal is set upon their hearts so that they do not understand.
[63.4] And when you see them, their persons will please you, and If they speak, you will listen to their speech; (they are) as if they were big pieces of wood clad with garments; they think every cry to be against them. They are the enemy, therefore beware of them; may Allah destroy them, whence are they turned back?
[63.5] And when it is said to them: Come, the Apostle of Allah will ask forgiveness for you, they turn back their heads and you may see them turning away while they are big with pride.
[63.6] It is alike to them whether you beg
forgiveness for them or do not beg forgiveness for them; Allah will never forgive them; surely Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Qiyam,
Does "laainoon" in 2:159 refer to Bohras? If so, you are setting yourself up as judge, a privilege which belongs to Allah alone.
Quran does not instruct Muslims to curse.It only states that Allah's curse is on such-and-such.
Does "laainoon" in 2:159 refer to Bohras? If so, you are setting yourself up as judge, a privilege which belongs to Allah alone.
Quran does not instruct Muslims to curse.It only states that Allah's curse is on such-and-such.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Porus,
Laainun (the cursers) means anyone that curses based on whom Allah has described to be cursed.
See the other ayat I also referenced 3:87 which clear states:
Aw'laika jaza'uhum inna alayhim la'nat'Allahi wal mala'ikati wan na'si ajmain.
They are those whose judgement (jaza) is that on them is the curse of Allah and the angel (malaika) and mankind (naas).
Laainun (the cursers) means anyone that curses based on whom Allah has described to be cursed.
See the other ayat I also referenced 3:87 which clear states:
Aw'laika jaza'uhum inna alayhim la'nat'Allahi wal mala'ikati wan na'si ajmain.
They are those whose judgement (jaza) is that on them is the curse of Allah and the angel (malaika) and mankind (naas).
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
.
Br. qiyam
Last question on 'cursing'
I am observing Muslim (at least that is what I think). That means I pray 5 times a day and observe piller no. 2 & 3. I have been to Hujj, but I do not curse the compainions. Also I do not perform Maatam. Do you think I have any chance to go to Jannah?
I will appriciate honest answer.
Wasalaam and pray that your cursing and Maatam benifit you. And also Jumma Mubarak.
.
Br. qiyam
Last question on 'cursing'
I am observing Muslim (at least that is what I think). That means I pray 5 times a day and observe piller no. 2 & 3. I have been to Hujj, but I do not curse the compainions. Also I do not perform Maatam. Do you think I have any chance to go to Jannah?
I will appriciate honest answer.
Wasalaam and pray that your cursing and Maatam benifit you. And also Jumma Mubarak.
.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Qiyam,
Allah does not instruct YOU to curse. 3:87 says that there is a curse on these people. That has already happened. You need not do anything except bless everyone. If you cannot bring yourself to do it, you need to look into your heart.
Allah does not instruct YOU to curse. 3:87 says that there is a curse on these people. That has already happened. You need not do anything except bless everyone. If you cannot bring yourself to do it, you need to look into your heart.
-
MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Br Qiyam: You wrote on translation---"Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet cursed the one who did Muthla to an animal (i e., cut its limbs or some other part of its body while it is still alive)." -----------So according to you if somebody shoots an animal which is alive falls in the same category of Muthla to an animal -Should this person get curse from Allah Or the prophet? You know what i am talking about & you better not try to twist the answer!
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Porus,
The ayat clearly says those who go against the laws of Allah and His messenger are curse by Allah and the malaika and mankind, ALL OF THEM (ajmain). Please do not play with the words of the Quran to suit your agenda.
Let me quote it again in full context:
[3.86] How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Apostle was true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
--This refers to persons like Abu Bakr, Umar, etc who went during the life of the Prophet bore witness over and over to Prophet...and after his demise...went directly against the order of the Prophet.
[3.87] (As for) these, their reward is that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and of men, all together.
---Clearly saying that who shall curse these people.
[3.88] Abiding in it; their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be respited.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear MuslimFirst,
I don't honestly know the answer to your question. You see the first pillar for both sunni and shiah is walayat of Allah and His messengers. This means to LOVE and OBEY Allah and the guides He has ordained on this earth...and separating myself from those who do other than this. So just as I cannot support Firaun for fighting against Musa Nabi and his family...why would I support persons who fought against the Muhammad Nabi and his family? These were the ordained people to guide us...to go against them is to go against Allah.
I have never...nor does the vast majority of shiah say sunnis are to blame for the action of these persons...this is why we curse them specifically. All of my arguments have been on the defensive...against those who say I am wrong in cursing. I have not told anyone to curse anyone, but have said why it is right that I curse.
Abu Lahab will be in the fire...for what? He constantly insulted and attacked the Prophet. We curse him and his wife every time we recite surah 111. Most seem to have little problem with that. But for me to curse very, very close companions of the Prophet (who took the shahadah), who mocked and usurped the rights of his family after his death, who waged war against his family twice...this is ok from your point? I should honor and respect these people? At least Abu Lahab never took the shahadah!
In my opinion, for me to do as you are asking would in itself be hypocritical...would not it?
-------------------------------------------------
Dear Mhd. Hussain,
The hadith refers to mutilating an animal by cutting its limbs off...yet still keeping it alive. This has nothing shooting any animal dead.
The ayat clearly says those who go against the laws of Allah and His messenger are curse by Allah and the malaika and mankind, ALL OF THEM (ajmain). Please do not play with the words of the Quran to suit your agenda.
Let me quote it again in full context:
[3.86] How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Apostle was true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
--This refers to persons like Abu Bakr, Umar, etc who went during the life of the Prophet bore witness over and over to Prophet...and after his demise...went directly against the order of the Prophet.
[3.87] (As for) these, their reward is that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and of men, all together.
---Clearly saying that who shall curse these people.
[3.88] Abiding in it; their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be respited.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear MuslimFirst,
I don't honestly know the answer to your question. You see the first pillar for both sunni and shiah is walayat of Allah and His messengers. This means to LOVE and OBEY Allah and the guides He has ordained on this earth...and separating myself from those who do other than this. So just as I cannot support Firaun for fighting against Musa Nabi and his family...why would I support persons who fought against the Muhammad Nabi and his family? These were the ordained people to guide us...to go against them is to go against Allah.
I have never...nor does the vast majority of shiah say sunnis are to blame for the action of these persons...this is why we curse them specifically. All of my arguments have been on the defensive...against those who say I am wrong in cursing. I have not told anyone to curse anyone, but have said why it is right that I curse.
Abu Lahab will be in the fire...for what? He constantly insulted and attacked the Prophet. We curse him and his wife every time we recite surah 111. Most seem to have little problem with that. But for me to curse very, very close companions of the Prophet (who took the shahadah), who mocked and usurped the rights of his family after his death, who waged war against his family twice...this is ok from your point? I should honor and respect these people? At least Abu Lahab never took the shahadah!
In my opinion, for me to do as you are asking would in itself be hypocritical...would not it?
-------------------------------------------------
Dear Mhd. Hussain,
The hadith refers to mutilating an animal by cutting its limbs off...yet still keeping it alive. This has nothing shooting any animal dead.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Qiyam,
Let us get away from literalist interpretation of the Quraan for a moment and consider the possibility that the mesage is in fact a 'riddle'.
Quran can be used as a workshop for expansion and awareness of self or soul. Since everything is from Allah, then Allah cannot forswear any of His creation. That leaves us with the responsibility to consider that the duality we experience is not really the province of Quraan. Quran deals excusively with Unity and therefore negatives described in Quraan are really aspects of ourselves.
3:82 declares ALL mankind's curse is on these people. It is obvious that not all mankind are now cursing the first three Khulafa. Therefore that is not the ayat that describes current situation. It either describes reward in the end or it describes aspects of ourselves. The latter is more likely as generations of mystics have commented on the verses of the Quraan.
It certainly is not the license for the Shia to curse anyone, nor can you judge these personalities on the basis of partisan view of history. These curses are political instruments to keep people (victims of the cults) in line. Like maatam, it is only relevant in the setting of the crowd. You do not curse during prayer. You would not curse or do maatam on your own at home when praying. It is not part of religion of Islam. It is part of misguided faith.
Let us get away from literalist interpretation of the Quraan for a moment and consider the possibility that the mesage is in fact a 'riddle'.
Quran can be used as a workshop for expansion and awareness of self or soul. Since everything is from Allah, then Allah cannot forswear any of His creation. That leaves us with the responsibility to consider that the duality we experience is not really the province of Quraan. Quran deals excusively with Unity and therefore negatives described in Quraan are really aspects of ourselves.
3:82 declares ALL mankind's curse is on these people. It is obvious that not all mankind are now cursing the first three Khulafa. Therefore that is not the ayat that describes current situation. It either describes reward in the end or it describes aspects of ourselves. The latter is more likely as generations of mystics have commented on the verses of the Quraan.
It certainly is not the license for the Shia to curse anyone, nor can you judge these personalities on the basis of partisan view of history. These curses are political instruments to keep people (victims of the cults) in line. Like maatam, it is only relevant in the setting of the crowd. You do not curse during prayer. You would not curse or do maatam on your own at home when praying. It is not part of religion of Islam. It is part of misguided faith.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Porus,
I must disagree with the basis of your argument... Since everything is from Allah, then Allah cannot forswear any of His creation.
This is a false assumption. Everything is from Allah...Allah is not responsible for what everything He creates does (in regards to mankind). He is Judger of what they do. He give a criterion for them to follow and if they don't follow it...He has also stated the results of not following. Allah created Iblis...Iblis didn't follow the order of Allah...Allah cast him to eternal damnation. This is why there is a Day of Judgement in the first place. Allah has time again destroyed entire generations...entire societies...the entire race of mankind in the case of Nuh Nabi...for their disobedience.
It certainly is not the license for the Shia to curse anyone, nor can you judge these personalities on the basis of partisan view of history. These curses are political instruments to keep people (victims of the cults) in line.
To say this is a partisian view history is very ignorant statement. No shiah nor sunni nor oriental historian would deny the actions against the family of the Prophet. How can you say such a statement??
Like maatam, it is only relevant in the setting of the crowd. You do not curse during prayer. You would not curse or do maatam on your own at home when praying. It is not part of religion of Islam. It is part of misguided faith.
I think of Imam Husayn..just as I think of the Prophet and Maulana Ali with every action I take...as an example for what Allah wanted me to be. So when I recite Ya Sayyida Shohodai at the end of my salat everyday...I do matam. I curse them now and whenever I need a reminder of what I MUST NOT become...for those accursed are examples of treachery.
I must disagree with the basis of your argument... Since everything is from Allah, then Allah cannot forswear any of His creation.
This is a false assumption. Everything is from Allah...Allah is not responsible for what everything He creates does (in regards to mankind). He is Judger of what they do. He give a criterion for them to follow and if they don't follow it...He has also stated the results of not following. Allah created Iblis...Iblis didn't follow the order of Allah...Allah cast him to eternal damnation. This is why there is a Day of Judgement in the first place. Allah has time again destroyed entire generations...entire societies...the entire race of mankind in the case of Nuh Nabi...for their disobedience.
It certainly is not the license for the Shia to curse anyone, nor can you judge these personalities on the basis of partisan view of history. These curses are political instruments to keep people (victims of the cults) in line.
To say this is a partisian view history is very ignorant statement. No shiah nor sunni nor oriental historian would deny the actions against the family of the Prophet. How can you say such a statement??
Like maatam, it is only relevant in the setting of the crowd. You do not curse during prayer. You would not curse or do maatam on your own at home when praying. It is not part of religion of Islam. It is part of misguided faith.
I think of Imam Husayn..just as I think of the Prophet and Maulana Ali with every action I take...as an example for what Allah wanted me to be. So when I recite Ya Sayyida Shohodai at the end of my salat everyday...I do matam. I curse them now and whenever I need a reminder of what I MUST NOT become...for those accursed are examples of treachery.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
.
Br. qiyam
You wrote: " You see the first pillar for both sunni and shiah is walayat of Allah and His messengers"
Brother please do not change first piller of majority of muslims and it is 'THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER' .
I do not want to quarral with you about the fact that your tariqa has added pillers. So when you say first piller for sunni is ' walayat ' you are not telling the truth. First piller for Sunni is ' Shahada '. And that means Ibadah of Allah and Allah alone in way taught in his book and by his messenger.
There is nothing in main stream Islam which requires one to curse or beat his chest.
Wasalaam
.
Br. qiyam
You wrote: " You see the first pillar for both sunni and shiah is walayat of Allah and His messengers"
Brother please do not change first piller of majority of muslims and it is 'THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER' .
I do not want to quarral with you about the fact that your tariqa has added pillers. So when you say first piller for sunni is ' walayat ' you are not telling the truth. First piller for Sunni is ' Shahada '. And that means Ibadah of Allah and Allah alone in way taught in his book and by his messenger.
There is nothing in main stream Islam which requires one to curse or beat his chest.
Wasalaam
.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear MuslimFirst,
I meant no disrepect, but walayat as both sunni and shiah refer to it includes the shahadah, but comprimises more than it. It is the declaration of the love and obeyment of Allah and His messengers (the kalimah), belief and adherance to the Quran as the word of God, and belief and adherence to the Sunnah of the Prophet. Shahadah, is the declaration in the belief of Allah and the Prophet...this is not the entire first pillar...as you yourself have even described it. This, I believe, is the way I originally described it.
Shahadah is the general term used to refer to this first pillar of walayat.
Shiahs differ with sunnsi in that we take this walayat for the ahlul bayt as well, as commanded by the Prophet.
I meant no disrepect, but walayat as both sunni and shiah refer to it includes the shahadah, but comprimises more than it. It is the declaration of the love and obeyment of Allah and His messengers (the kalimah), belief and adherance to the Quran as the word of God, and belief and adherence to the Sunnah of the Prophet. Shahadah, is the declaration in the belief of Allah and the Prophet...this is not the entire first pillar...as you yourself have even described it. This, I believe, is the way I originally described it.
Shahadah is the general term used to refer to this first pillar of walayat.
Shiahs differ with sunnsi in that we take this walayat for the ahlul bayt as well, as commanded by the Prophet.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
The first person to curse Abu Bakr and Umar was Fatima(AS). Abu Bakr and Umar had gone to Fatima and she turned her face away from them and she said that she curses them in every prayer of hers. This has also been recorded by some Sunni ulemas.
I think our Fatimi Daii is following in the footsteps of Fatima(AS).
Khuda ni Laanat on Abu Bakr and Umar bin Khattab.
I think our Fatimi Daii is following in the footsteps of Fatima(AS).
Khuda ni Laanat on Abu Bakr and Umar bin Khattab.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Allah has also cursed Abu Bakr and Umar. When the Prophet(PBUH) was on his deathbed, he was exhorting his followers(especially Abu Bakr and Umar) to go on the expedition of Usama. These two found some excuse to leave the expedition and come back to Medina. The Prophet proclaimed that Allah's curse is on those who leave Usama's expedition.
Khuda ni La'anat on Abu Bakr and Umar bin Khattab.
Khuda ni La'anat on Abu Bakr and Umar bin Khattab.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Simon:
How wrong was your rasul's choice of friends!!!!
How very incorrect was your rasul in choosing Omer and Abu Bakr as friends!!
How poor seems the decision making of your rasul?
How incompetent was your rasul in choosing his inlaws!!!
Indeed even YOU can see what your rasul could not see!!!
I tell you what Simon..why do you follow such an incompetent person only conclusion seems to be that..YOU ARE AN IDIOT
How wrong was your rasul's choice of friends!!!!
How very incorrect was your rasul in choosing Omer and Abu Bakr as friends!!
How poor seems the decision making of your rasul?
How incompetent was your rasul in choosing his inlaws!!!
Indeed even YOU can see what your rasul could not see!!!
I tell you what Simon..why do you follow such an incompetent person only conclusion seems to be that..YOU ARE AN IDIOT
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
.
Br. qiyam
at the end of quran (The Noble Quran ,Khan & Al-Hilali) there is glossary of terms. I could find:
As-Shahadah = (i) Testimony of faith (ii) "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and Muhammad SAW is the Messenger of Allah."
I could not even find the term 'walayat' in the glossary. I will appriciate some learned brothers to post meaning of the term 'walayat'
To me it means additional verbage in Shahada to the effect that Ali RA is a WALI of Allah (yes it is true) and his family and Imaams etc. To us Sunnis this is slippery path, and may mislead careless person from 'Straight Path'
Stop the spinning. Answer my question.
I pary 5 times I pay Zakat, I have been to Hujj, I was born to Muslim parents and I fast.
I don't believe in cursing. I send Duaa to Prophet's family in all my prayers as ordered by the Prophet SAW. I am sorry that events of Karbala were painfull and not in spirit of Islam. but I have moved on and I do not lement about it.
Now tell me is this enough and I will go to Jannah if Allah wills?
Wasalaam
.
Br. qiyam
at the end of quran (The Noble Quran ,Khan & Al-Hilali) there is glossary of terms. I could find:
As-Shahadah = (i) Testimony of faith (ii) "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and Muhammad SAW is the Messenger of Allah."
I could not even find the term 'walayat' in the glossary. I will appriciate some learned brothers to post meaning of the term 'walayat'
To me it means additional verbage in Shahada to the effect that Ali RA is a WALI of Allah (yes it is true) and his family and Imaams etc. To us Sunnis this is slippery path, and may mislead careless person from 'Straight Path'
Stop the spinning. Answer my question.
I pary 5 times I pay Zakat, I have been to Hujj, I was born to Muslim parents and I fast.
I don't believe in cursing. I send Duaa to Prophet's family in all my prayers as ordered by the Prophet SAW. I am sorry that events of Karbala were painfull and not in spirit of Islam. but I have moved on and I do not lement about it.
Now tell me is this enough and I will go to Jannah if Allah wills?
Wasalaam
.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
.
Br. Simon
you wrote: "Fatima and she turned her face away from them and she said that she curses them in every prayer of hers. This has also been recorded by some Sunni ulemas."
Please qoute who?
Bibi Fatem RA was a beloved daughter of Rasool-Allah, wife of Commnder of the faithfull, a noble woman and is respected by 100% of Muslim Ummah. She has right to curse anybody she wishes. She can curse anybody who she thinks has offended her. And if she cursed then 'good for her'. I hope and pray that she was happy. Allah has given her no authority to command me or muslim ummah to curse anybody.
Wasalaam
.
Br. Simon
you wrote: "Fatima and she turned her face away from them and she said that she curses them in every prayer of hers. This has also been recorded by some Sunni ulemas."
Please qoute who?
Bibi Fatem RA was a beloved daughter of Rasool-Allah, wife of Commnder of the faithfull, a noble woman and is respected by 100% of Muslim Ummah. She has right to curse anybody she wishes. She can curse anybody who she thinks has offended her. And if she cursed then 'good for her'. I hope and pray that she was happy. Allah has given her no authority to command me or muslim ummah to curse anybody.
Wasalaam
.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
> I am sorry that events of Karbala were painfull and not in spirit of Islam. but I have moved on and I do not lement about it.
Muslim First,
I also take great issue with matam, and for a period of time had stopped doing it altogether. Even now, I will not do it the vast majority of the time, and have at times been questioned for my lack of participation.
The ahadith of the Messenger tell us that Muslims should not indulge in either extremes of joy or of grief. Further, there is a story that Ali ibn Abi Talib expressed regret at not having been called to martyrdom at Uhud like so many of his fellows. Taken together, I would think that these stories would cast Husain's martyrdom at Karbala in a postive, not a negative light.
However, I do not think matam is altogether a pointless institution. Husain is the "lord of the martyrs", and a martyr is also a "witness". That is, he is a witness to the message of Islam, one who takes the shahadat. In my mind, the institution of matam is a remembrance of Husain's actions and a prayer to God that we may be as pure in our jihad as he was in his, that we may live and defend Islam to the very last, from our own assaults as well as those of others.
I think Husain has become a symbol of the struggle that defines being a Muslim. Personally, I reject all notions of grief and regret at his death (and have spoken to other Shia who feel the same), but do see matam as a commemoration and a reminder.
Hope this sheds some light.
salaam
Muslim First,
I also take great issue with matam, and for a period of time had stopped doing it altogether. Even now, I will not do it the vast majority of the time, and have at times been questioned for my lack of participation.
The ahadith of the Messenger tell us that Muslims should not indulge in either extremes of joy or of grief. Further, there is a story that Ali ibn Abi Talib expressed regret at not having been called to martyrdom at Uhud like so many of his fellows. Taken together, I would think that these stories would cast Husain's martyrdom at Karbala in a postive, not a negative light.
However, I do not think matam is altogether a pointless institution. Husain is the "lord of the martyrs", and a martyr is also a "witness". That is, he is a witness to the message of Islam, one who takes the shahadat. In my mind, the institution of matam is a remembrance of Husain's actions and a prayer to God that we may be as pure in our jihad as he was in his, that we may live and defend Islam to the very last, from our own assaults as well as those of others.
I think Husain has become a symbol of the struggle that defines being a Muslim. Personally, I reject all notions of grief and regret at his death (and have spoken to other Shia who feel the same), but do see matam as a commemoration and a reminder.
Hope this sheds some light.
salaam
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
<p>Cursing from the Minbar during Jumaa Khutba pulpit was introduced by the
second Khalifa, Umar. Practice was carried to extremes by Muawiyah by ordering curses on Ali ibn Abi Talib. This implies that cursing is an old Arab custom,
not part of Islam taught by the Prophet. Shias today follow the very
personalities they despise by continuing this ill-founded practice. If you believe in ahadith, then many of them can be found that say Prophet
prohibited cursing. Despite Qiyam's mis-reading of Quraan, the latter does not command you to curse, like it commands you to pray etc.</p>
<p>Having observed four generations of Bohras in private prayers in their homes,
I have yet to find one who did maatam on his/her musalla after prayer. This is
perhaps a new innovation by Sayedna. I once asked an old lady why she though
there is too much maatam these days. She replied that these are really bad times
and Bohras are sinning more than ever; therefore, Sayedna thinks that maatam
will bring the Bohras on correct path. The more you beat yourself with great
force the more Imam will hear you and he will then forgive you your sins.</p>
<p>A couple of links you may care to check out</p>
<p> Cursing Prohibited in Islam: [url=http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/562 ... 889</a></p>
<p>Why Slandering and Cursing is Forbidden in Islam: <a href="http://">
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthen ... htm</a></p>]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthen ... icle41.htm[/url]</p></a>
second Khalifa, Umar. Practice was carried to extremes by Muawiyah by ordering curses on Ali ibn Abi Talib. This implies that cursing is an old Arab custom,
not part of Islam taught by the Prophet. Shias today follow the very
personalities they despise by continuing this ill-founded practice. If you believe in ahadith, then many of them can be found that say Prophet
prohibited cursing. Despite Qiyam's mis-reading of Quraan, the latter does not command you to curse, like it commands you to pray etc.</p>
<p>Having observed four generations of Bohras in private prayers in their homes,
I have yet to find one who did maatam on his/her musalla after prayer. This is
perhaps a new innovation by Sayedna. I once asked an old lady why she though
there is too much maatam these days. She replied that these are really bad times
and Bohras are sinning more than ever; therefore, Sayedna thinks that maatam
will bring the Bohras on correct path. The more you beat yourself with great
force the more Imam will hear you and he will then forgive you your sins.</p>
<p>A couple of links you may care to check out</p>
<p> Cursing Prohibited in Islam: [url=http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/562 ... 889</a></p>
<p>Why Slandering and Cursing is Forbidden in Islam: <a href="http://">
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthen ... htm</a></p>]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthen ... icle41.htm[/url]</p></a>
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
.
Br. porus, AS
Can you check link of "Why Slandering and Cursing is Forbidden in Islam"
When can't go there.
Wasalaam
.
Br. porus, AS
Can you check link of "Why Slandering and Cursing is Forbidden in Islam"
When can't go there.
Wasalaam
.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear MF,
The link in my post is in error.It has </a></p> at the end of it.
Copy exaxtly as follows:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthen ... icle41.htm
Regards.
The link in my post is in error.It has </a></p> at the end of it.
Copy exaxtly as follows:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthen ... icle41.htm
Regards.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear MuslimFirst,
I did give you my answer...I don't know. I will not be judging you on the Qiyamat.
Regarding Maulatena Fatima,
Sahih al Bukhari hadith 4:325
Ayesha stated:
“After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle”.
Sahih al Bukhari Volume 5 hadith 61
“Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."
--Two things occured here. One..Abu Bakr overuled the authority of Maulatena Fatima...which makes him a munafiq in the first place. Two..Abu Bakr disobeyed the teaching of Prophet in respecting his family both in honoring the authority of Maulana Ali and Maulatena Fatima...which makes him a munafiq in the second place.
So in your opinion, I should venerate..as you and all sunni do...a person that would be classified as a munafiq? And it is not just a thing...where she can do whatever she likes...she's an example for all muslim of how a muminat, a leader of the women of Jannah, a purified member of the ahlul bayt...is suppose to act! SHE PERFORMED BARAT AS TAUGHT BY THE QURAN AND THE PROPHET!!
In fact in the order of most respected muslims by sunnis in history..first is Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, THEN ALI. How much sense does this make?
Dear Porus,
How wrong are you say I mis-read the Quran and you read it correctly? I clearly quoted the arabic and english. Every translator you reference gives the same literal translation as I quoted. I think you have misguided more with you unitarian interpretations of what is right and wrong. See you have the luxury of diagreeing/agreeing with things until its something you don't like...then just disregard everything JUST BECAUSE.
Dear Khairan
You don't like matam...Imam Zaynul Abidin wept every time he saw water or food until his death in memory of his father and family at Karbala. Imam Jafar Sadiq coined the cry "Every day is Ashura, every land is Karbala" in relation to how we should remember..how we should live.
I did give you my answer...I don't know. I will not be judging you on the Qiyamat.
Regarding Maulatena Fatima,
Sahih al Bukhari hadith 4:325
Ayesha stated:
“After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle”.
Sahih al Bukhari Volume 5 hadith 61
“Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."
--Two things occured here. One..Abu Bakr overuled the authority of Maulatena Fatima...which makes him a munafiq in the first place. Two..Abu Bakr disobeyed the teaching of Prophet in respecting his family both in honoring the authority of Maulana Ali and Maulatena Fatima...which makes him a munafiq in the second place.
So in your opinion, I should venerate..as you and all sunni do...a person that would be classified as a munafiq? And it is not just a thing...where she can do whatever she likes...she's an example for all muslim of how a muminat, a leader of the women of Jannah, a purified member of the ahlul bayt...is suppose to act! SHE PERFORMED BARAT AS TAUGHT BY THE QURAN AND THE PROPHET!!
In fact in the order of most respected muslims by sunnis in history..first is Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, THEN ALI. How much sense does this make?
Dear Porus,
How wrong are you say I mis-read the Quran and you read it correctly? I clearly quoted the arabic and english. Every translator you reference gives the same literal translation as I quoted. I think you have misguided more with you unitarian interpretations of what is right and wrong. See you have the luxury of diagreeing/agreeing with things until its something you don't like...then just disregard everything JUST BECAUSE.
Dear Khairan
You don't like matam...Imam Zaynul Abidin wept every time he saw water or food until his death in memory of his father and family at Karbala. Imam Jafar Sadiq coined the cry "Every day is Ashura, every land is Karbala" in relation to how we should remember..how we should live.
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
Dear Porus,
The links do not cite where any of the hadiths come from...still most of them don't pertain to cursing someone who fits the qualification of being cursed.
Secondly, how is cursing an arab tradition when the Prophet is quoted many times cursing particular people and events. How is it an arab custom...when Allah curses entire peoples in the Quran...Allah is not an arab (nazibilllah).
The links do not cite where any of the hadiths come from...still most of them don't pertain to cursing someone who fits the qualification of being cursed.
Secondly, how is cursing an arab tradition when the Prophet is quoted many times cursing particular people and events. How is it an arab custom...when Allah curses entire peoples in the Quran...Allah is not an arab (nazibilllah).
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Letter of Sayedna's apology
.
Dear br. Qiyam
You posted a Hadith about property which prophet received as Fai (War Booty). I believe you are referring to 'Phadak'. As I understand prophet did leave instruction that this cannot be inherited but income from this should go to his family and Abu Bakr RA did follow his instruction faithfully. Here is a incident of which some ppl. Are making mountain out of mole hill and making ppl. Munafikin. Let Allah be judge.
You wrote: “One..Abu Bakr overuled the authority of Maulatena Fatima...which makes him a munafiq in the first place”
What authority Bibi Fatema had? Who gave her this authority? How did she acquire this position of Authority? Just being favorite daughter of the Prophet does not make her the ruler of Ummah. (Islam is not like a Bohra Jamaat that Syedana’s family can acquire authority just by being related to him). See we Sunnis do love and honor Prophet’s family but do not venerate and worship them. Islam is not about worshipping personalities.
You wrote: "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."
I also read that Prophet said this in reference to Ali RA’s desire to marry somebody’s daughter. Fatema RA was very angry and despondent and prophet’s comment came regarding this.
Once again let me say that, There is no support in Quran or Sunnah of prophet that I should curse somebody who has not offended me personally. If anybody has offended Bibi Fatema and was unjust to her then Allah SWT certainly will take his ‘Hisab’ and wiil punish him. Let Allah SWT be the JUDGE.
Wasalaam
.
Dear br. Qiyam
You posted a Hadith about property which prophet received as Fai (War Booty). I believe you are referring to 'Phadak'. As I understand prophet did leave instruction that this cannot be inherited but income from this should go to his family and Abu Bakr RA did follow his instruction faithfully. Here is a incident of which some ppl. Are making mountain out of mole hill and making ppl. Munafikin. Let Allah be judge.
You wrote: “One..Abu Bakr overuled the authority of Maulatena Fatima...which makes him a munafiq in the first place”
What authority Bibi Fatema had? Who gave her this authority? How did she acquire this position of Authority? Just being favorite daughter of the Prophet does not make her the ruler of Ummah. (Islam is not like a Bohra Jamaat that Syedana’s family can acquire authority just by being related to him). See we Sunnis do love and honor Prophet’s family but do not venerate and worship them. Islam is not about worshipping personalities.
You wrote: "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."
I also read that Prophet said this in reference to Ali RA’s desire to marry somebody’s daughter. Fatema RA was very angry and despondent and prophet’s comment came regarding this.
Once again let me say that, There is no support in Quran or Sunnah of prophet that I should curse somebody who has not offended me personally. If anybody has offended Bibi Fatema and was unjust to her then Allah SWT certainly will take his ‘Hisab’ and wiil punish him. Let Allah SWT be the JUDGE.
Wasalaam
.