Something to ponder over.

[Am I Mumin?]

Assalam Aleykum,

Over the past couple of years, I have been questioning the religion and the sect that I am born into. I live in North America and although I try to be a part of the jamaat, by occasionally going to the masjid, I am neither a regular attendee nor a "front-bencher". My nikaah were performed on the hands of Sayedna Muhammed Burhanuddin and I have always had some faith in him - maybe not fanatical faith nor the kind of faith where I would jump if he said jump - but enough faith to want to be called a mumineen.

Because of the questioning that I have been doing, and because everytime I go to a majlis, I come back with more unease after witnessing the moula-worship and the lack of common courtesy among my fellow mumineen, I have started asking more often the question "Am I a mumin and if I am, is this really what it means to be a mumin?" Perhaps you could say that my leaning towards the progressive bohras has increased and although for several reasons I am not willing to openly move into the progressive movement, my leaning was towards them rather than the dawaat.

A friend of mine kindly referred me to this website. And whenever I need some solace or reprieve after witnessing what is happening around me in the jamaat, I browse through the posts on this site and gain some knowledge, get answers to some of my questions and at times have a laugh.

However, my intention of coming onto this website is not to read the childish and at times quite unislamic comments that seem prevalent nowadays. I know what is wrong with the dawaat and that is why I come here, but if all I get here are rants and raves about how bad the dawaat is then I question, "is the devil I know better then the devil I don't". Why the questions about Sayedna's mother's urus? Why the questions about the Imam-uz-zamaan? What is this ridiculous notion about issuing a writ habeas corpus for the Sayedna to produce the Imam-uz-zaman? Frankly, my brothers and sister, when I read comments like those, I want to run back to the folds of the dawaat! Some of the language on this site is embarrassing and I am ashamed when my wife reads it!

I am sure that many of you will respond to this posting of mine with derogatory remarks and name-calling. I will not be surprised especially when some of you can write gems such as "when you die we will raise a grand tomb above you befitting a jaanwar of yr stature and call it "suwwar mahal". and in the galla there we will deposit plenty of fresh human excrement daily for you and yr family members to enjoy in perpetuity. there, now are you satisfied?". I know that much like the school yard bully, some of you will come looking for a fight and will want to beat down to a pulp anyone who so much as questions your logic or reasoning.

We are all adults here (or at least I hope we are) and if there is name-calling to be done, I am sure each of us can outdo the other. But is that the intention of this forum? We all know the wrong-doings of the dawaat, but do we want to constantly talk about that or do we want to move ahead.

I can not explain either to you or even to myself why, even though I know the shortcomings of my Moula, I am still proud to call him my Moula! Maybe I need some more time before I can turn my back on the dawaat. Maybe it's my blind faith in him, maybe it is complete lunacy on my part, but it is what it is!

Brothers and sisters, as all of you are no doubt aware, the favourite hobby of all bohras is to talk about the wrongdoings of the jamaat and the the latest scam that the dawaat is involved in. Every majlis and every jamaan, that is all that my 'thaal-mates' talk about. But do I want to come to this website to talk about the same things? NO.

I was hoping to have more sensible, uplifting, encouraging and enlightening conversation here. I thought that since the progressive movement is not involved in all this crap that I have to put up with in the jamaat, at least here I will gain something new, something that will help me become a better muslim and a better human being. Alas, I seem to have been wrong, because all that you seem to be doing on this site is throwing mud at the dawaat. You are telling me the things that I already knew, which is why I started leaning towards you. Sadly, I have been disappointed.

This may be my first and last post in this forum. The reform movement may have lost a member even before I became a part of it, not because I love being a part of the mainstream jamaat, but frankly, this is not the forum for me! The devil I know, as evil and blood thirsty as he is, is better then being with people who seem to have nothing better to do then to call names and sling mud!

Wa salaam.

P.S. Before this posting, I had mailed the Site Administrator with the same concerns and I take the opportunity to thank the Administrator most sincerely for the response. I appreciate your kind words as well as your positive suggestions.

[SBM]

Am I Mumin
Good thought provoking letter, but it is always challenging to see the devil you do not know, if you still continue to be a part of devil you know and do not correct the devil or distance your self then you are not up to the task of challenges. I am in North America and I do have e-jamat card but I do believe that by staying and raising your concerns time and time again, you can make difference. While doing same you should go out and expand your horizon by engaging with other members of Muslim Community, become a part of Visible Muslim Organization like CAIR, ISNA or your local masaajids (sunni and Shia)
You might get some scorn from your local Aamil and other members of Bohra jamaat but if you stay firm and be respectful to them, they will leave you alone and would not confront you. If your Aamil and other members know that you are not being hoodwinked about your children's Nikkah and who is going to bury you, you are in better position. My Aamil and jamaat people know that neither I nor my family cares for those kinds of fear mongering as I have enough friends in Shia as well as in Sunni community who will take care of it.
Not all people on this board are Bohra there are some EXTRATERRESTRIAL creatures who think they are righteous but that goes in every community.
So Bhai AM I MUMIN, if you are still reading this, do keep visiting, you can make difference

[Danish]

The concerns you raised about mud-slinging and personal insults are quite legit and I find myself accustomed and try not to indulge in them in retaliation. They will be found in all spheres of life, not only on cyberspace discussion forums but also in family circles, communities, religions, schools, etc.

On the contrary, the wrongdoings are also to be found within the same patterns of life and that is what is being discussed out of the norm. One must understand that people come from all denominations, backgrounds, knowledge and experiences; hence one will always find some bad apples no matter what. Is there a forum, a family or a community that does not carry such affects? If it does, then it is the duty of not only the forum members (without favoritism) to point out their ad-hominem attacks but ultimately falls upon the policing duty of mods/admins incharge to warn and take care of such problems in an unbiased and professional manner.

I believe this forum is created against the much talked about atrocities, injustices and inhumane concerns throbbed upon and ongoing towards the alleged uncultured emanating from the kothars, the rich and the hypocrites. Even the poor, the weak and the illiterate have a voice to be heard and theirs is much needed and supported. The concern here is the belief system that millions submit to, not personal individual matters (that is a separate issue and can certainly be talked about on a personal level). People give all sorts of opinions and justifications but it’s entirely up to you to decipher appropriateness and righteousness to lead a life warranted by your own path and pasture by contemplating on the very advice and opinions given by many. Sometimes one takes it as a grain of salt, sometimes a sugary coat and sometimes the very reason to take charge. One should be welcomed to debate the subject matter with reason without getting personal as if the religion belongs only to him/her.

I would advice you to refrain from countering or simply ignoring personal and direct attacks and get right to the concerns and matters of pertinent nature talked about. My own purpose is to talk and criticize about belief systems and not to attack on person. If people can understand the difference, then I’m sure everyone can have a desirous discussion on the subject concerned. The more opinions and criticisms are cornered and adjudicated, the better the overall understanding. I can read from your post that you have concerns but hesitate to elaborate due to unwanted retaliation. But that is the nature of discussion forums and there are knowledgeable and intelligent people right here on this forum that may bring about a change of thought for the betterment of yourself and others.

[makberi]

AIM,
I agree with u completely. the language on this forum sometimes is totally uncalled for, but i guess one can expect that when such heated debates take place....but jus becuz some ppl lose their cool shudnt mean that our community doesnt need reform....irrespective of ur views on the approach and execution of reform movement advocated by this site i am sure u realise that there is something wrong in our community.....that things need to change...unfortunately growing up in this community i was neva able to find a forum to express my views on many topics....but becuzz of this forum i get to xchange views with mnay open minded ppl and also learned a few things abt ismailism and our religion....its ur choice whether to participate on this forum or not....it wud be unfortunate if u dint...but i hope u continue to atleast visit this forum and follow the discussions passively.....cuz everyone needs a sort of moral sanction to their views or ideas....having being surrounded by narrow minded family members i have always been uncomfortable discussing my views openly....when i came across this site it was a big relief to find out that i m not the only one who feels this way....remember this forum is for, by and of the people ...only from participation of more ppl like u can push away those who u use foul language and resort to mud slinging

[Humsafar]

Self-doubting Mumin,

You touch upon a very relevant issue. Your example should be an eye-opener to all the gung-ho progressives on this board who with their foul language and disrespect for Sayedna are doing great disservice to the reform movement. They are alienating well-meaning bohras like you who have begun to question the dawat's affairs.

However, while I agree that this board could do with more serious reformist discussion, it is wrong to equate what happens here with the entire reform movement. The "devil" you see here is not what the reform movement is all about. Please do not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

As makberi said, this forum is of, for and by the people. It will be what we make of it. Your contribution can help steer it in the direction you, and most reformists, want it to go. Try it and see. Don't give up without even trying.

[Above Average Bohra]

Brother Am I Mumin,

The devil I know, as evil and blood thirsty as he is, is better then being with people who seem to have nothing better to do then to call names and sling mud!

I'd rather have some mud slung at me than have my blood sucked. Wouldn't you?

[amils]

----to "love" one's religion is (they say) to "love" God , His creations and to take active part in the formation of JUST social policies affecting those creations (mankind for one).Not to do so would seem to deny complete fulfillment of one's faith---

[Al Zulfiqar]

Bro. AIM,

your post is interesting in that you blame this forum or those who contribute to this forum as being responsible for yr vacillating mind.

now here are some home truths:

1. all those who visit or post here are not reformists.
2. the official stand of the reformists is clearly spelt out on the home page, as far as what are the reforms they seek, their interest in maintaining the staus quo on our traditional bohra hierarchy, imam, dai, amils etc.
3. the ones who come here to abuse the most are the die-hard bohra fanatics, who since they have no sensible reply on most topics, simply resort to slander, heckling and vulgarities; classic ploys of someone who has nothing to argue with. sometimes in the heat of the moment, and in order to give them a fitting reply, even a person of reformist bent may be excused for losing his cool.
4. as far as the dai goes, we have every respect for his office and his post, but that does not mean we have to respect the person himself, esp. if that person is abusing his position and exploiting innocent bohras in the name of religion, committing tyranny and causing misery in their lives by mental and religious persecution.
5. if you cannot understand the fundamental issue of the references to the syedna's mother, then you havent read enough on this forum. you need to go back and read more as that will explain to you the moral poverty of this present syedna and his so-called illustrious father!
6. as i see it, you are seeing and feeling the rampant corruption prevailing in our dawaat and the way its being run, (for which i credit you) but you cant seem to overcome the inherent awe of the dai as a divine being, instilled in you from childhood. that is perfectly ok because a great majority of our brethren cant seem to break that barrier either. but do not blame this forum for what ails you and the devils that are tormenting your soul and mind. they are of your own making and only you can clear those cobwebs by sifting the grain from the chaff. as someone here has said, there is a lot which is unpalatable in each religion or even every human being, but a sensible person takes what is the best from each and discards the rest.
7. searching for the truth is a path fraught with dangers, full of torment, at every turn you will be assailed by doubts, suspicions, despair and loss of morale. at such times it is the easiest thing in the world to fall back upon the familiarity of what's routine and the comforts of the devil-u-know, as u have so eloquently put it.
8. since u have already started the process of critical thinking, go on and challenge the notions of a divine, omnipotent dai, who professes to take u into heaven and then takes great pleasure in making his abde's recite ghanu jeevo! you have nothing to fear but fear itself..
9. if the devil-u-know seems comforting v/s the unknown world of the reformists, its because the weakness lies within you my friend, and not this forum or any other convenient scapegoat.

this is written in a spirit of genuine help and is not meant as a criticism for your beliefs. there are lakhs of bohras like u, many amongst my own relatives and friends who embolden or pleasure themselves by heaping scorn on the kothar, but somehow cannot bring themselves to say a word against the dai. my contention is if he is so all-powerful, so divine, such a ghaib-na-malik etc, such an ocean of love and compassion and peace and an angel of mercy, how can he not know of all the corruption, nepotism, sycophancy and loot committed in his name and the imam he claims to represent? does he know or bother to know how many bohras are poor and struggling to make ends meet? does he care? does he ever visit any ordinary middle-class bohra's house? where was his compassion when the women of udaipur were molested and assaulted in front of him? why dosnt he give accounts of our hard-earned money's when even Maulana Ali, whom we follow as shia's, did?

why does this angel of mercy make us utter laanats against his enemies (those who dare to question his authoritarianism) and even against the first 3 khalifas, when maulana ali himself never did?

there are these and thousands of other such perfectly logical questions. ask yrself why and seek their answers by yrself. your choice is clear: accept slavery or choose independence. please your masters or please yrself.

[Safiuddin]

I have to say i agree with Al Zulfikar on this.

AIM you clearly feel torn between what you have been told to believe all of your life, and the reality of your own observations. You've become frustrated, angry, resentful, and probably feeling a bit manipulated. Forgive me from speaking plainly - I mean no harm or jest. Many of us here have had to come through the same period of questioning and growth that you're now experiencing.

If you're not interested in this forum or you feel that the members here are somehow beneath your contempt, then what was the point of your letter? Why not just continue reading and laughing?
The truth - I believe - is that you really do want to be a part of something different. I think that you really do want to contribute - and you should - you're obviously intelligent. Your posting, however sends a mixed message. It's like saying "I really do want to say a few things, but you'll all just sling mud and say stupid things, so why bother with you?"

I certainly hope that you don't decide to walk away - because doing so would be a great disservice to you. The people who read this would also benefit. Consider if you were able to make one person's life better by your words?

Contributing to this board may affect you positively, walking away may make future growth tht much harder.

But if you do decide never to post here again- take responsibility for it yourself. It's only your indecision and emotional upheaval that is in your way - not anything to do with the people here.

[East Africawalla]

AIM ,

There are people on this forum who go overboard on slagging off Syedna and Kothar (not naming names Zulfukar) but its an interesting forum to convey what is in the real Dawoodi Bohra, this guys are still 25 years behind in their views , things have changed , I am not saying that that is no curruption and is hanky dorry in the kotharis but its not much different in the progressives , they are not organised enough and lack funds, vision or mission

[Humsafar]

East Africawalla,

Can you please explain how "these guys" are still 25 years behind in their views and how have things changed?

What views and things do have in mind?

[Danish]

Originally posted by East Africawalla:
... its not much different in the progressives , they are not organised enough and lack funds, vision or mission

This site itself counters that very notion inclusive of verbal and written advertisements which suffices the funds, mission and vision needed. One does not need crores of rupees to drumbeat and spread the news overnight. Most are already aware of progressives or reformists and it remains only a matter of time.

[Safiuddin]

East Africawalla (or are you the old Africawalla with a new Topi?) have you even looked at this site or done any research into the progressive cause and its mission? On what basis do you assert that the reformist movement lacks mission and vision?

[S. Insaf]

Dear Brother East Africawalla you have commented that:
”There are people on this forum who go overboard on slagging off Syedna and Kothar (not naming names Zulfukar) but its an interesting forum to convey what is in the real Dawoodi Bohra, this guys are still 25 years behind in their views , things have changed , I am not saying that that is no corruption and is hanky dory in the kotharis but its not much different in the progressives , they are not organised enough and lack funds, vision or mission.”

First of all let me thank you as being a part of the system you honestly admit that “there is corruption in Kothar’s establishment headed by present Dai and you find this forum interesting to convey real Dawoodi Bohra. It is a welcome change that such awareness is coming in the hard-core Bohras too.

Dawat-e-Fatemi’s Dawat is required to be clean and in order being a spiritual and religious institution headed and guided by a person known as Kal-Masoom. I am afraid the corruption in such an institution disqualifies both the head and the institution.

I think that you are not a part of the reformist organisation and hence unaware of its working. Being a part of a corrupt system you feel it is your duty to spread misinformation about reformist Bohras. Once Mr. Joti Basu when he was CM had said in a personal meeting that, “Your mullaji is most organised Mulla I have ever seen to project his false image and distort the image of his opponents” So I disagree with you when you say “its not much different in the progressives, they too are not organised”.
For people like you organised means every thing under tight control of one man. No Sir. The Bohra reformists are followers of the system of Dais prior to Sayedna Taher Saifuddin when local Jamats and local bodies were absolutely independent in their working and decision-making. The Dawoodi Bohra Jamat – Udaipur, the Dawoodi Bohra Jamat – Marathwada, the Dawoodi Bohra Jamat – Andhra Pradesh, Dawoodi Bohra Jamat – Bombay, Bohra Youth Association of Kuwait, Progressive Bohra Jamat of Canada, Bohra Welfare Society of Great Britain etc are very much part of the central organisation of the reformist Bohras known as “Central Board of Dawoodi Bohra Community”, but the Central Board never interfere in their day to day activities and decision-making. Beside there are lone Bohra fighter in different cities like Zehra Cyclewala of Surat who get moral support from the Centre. It is the policy of the Central Board to allow all local bodies to act independently, which should not be mistaken as disorganised forces.

We openly admit that we lack funds as we properly utilise the small amount of Zakat money and voluntary donations that we receive and make their regularly audited accounts public. Due to lack of fund we are lacking in reaching out our voice in the community and reaching out to the defiant Bohras like in Banswada, Ujjain etc. as Mahatma Gandhi could do during Freedom Struggle exploiting every local issue.
If we had lacked in our vision or mission the Sayedna’s all powerful establishment would have succeeded in crushing us long back. But today we have made the choosers as beggars.
Brother! Please think over it and do not get misguided. My personal request.

[S. Insaf]

Brother East Africawalla,
Have you gone through the report of recent World Conference at Udaipur? It is an example of collective and organised efforts with mission and vision of the reformists all over India and world.
For your information organising a Conference of this level is an uphill task because Sayedna's establishment fears it most. It uses all the force at its command to crush it. Their agents go to the hall owner and threaten him that it will be ransacked if given for holding the conference. They bribed the police and local politicians heavily. They incite goonda elements in the community to dash in the conference hall create situation difficult to control for the organisers. They do all sorts of false propaganda against it. They even try to bribe the media. So you can understand what amount of collective efforts is required to make it a grand success both money and man-power wise.

[Al Zulfiqar]

to add to Bhai Insaf's post, the reformists even have to contend with fraudulent claims of mischief makers who report fictitious events, apparently supported by newspaper clippings, when such clippings do not exist and the editor of said newspaper himself denies it...!!

the kothar also goes to great lengths to spread lies and misinformation that the conference was a complete flop, but in this age of computers and online media is unable to back up its claims in the face of wide dissemination of factual news.

they even go to the extreme lengths of bribing public transport vehicle operators to stay away from the venue so its successful staging can be disrupted, threatening caterers to not accept orders for food supplies to the reformists event, also the printers, decorators and so on. inspite of all the kothar's might in numbers and resources, financial and political, yet they cannot stop the reformists and the very fact that they resort to such cheap and despicable tactics shows how low they can stoop to hide their misdeeds and how much they fear this thorn in their sides.

why??? its only when a thief or sinner has something to hide that he vents his fury against those who would dare to expose them.

[udaipurresident]

Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:
to add to Bhai Insaf's post, the reformists even have to contend with fraudulent claims of mischief makers who report fictitious events, apparently supported by newspaper clippings, when such clippings do not exist and the editor of said newspaper himself denies it...!!

Zulfi
If you are so honest/courageous & what so ever you think you are then let me put ask you a simple question?why dont you bring forward all the papers/facts/evidences that you have in order to testify your fantasy of taher saifuddin regarding his wife.Now dont come out and ask em to prove why syedna does not celebrate his mothers urs.Im asking you in plain and simpel words:prove your worth & put thoses facts here.
You yourself in your post admit that the local amil would prescribe medicnes & then you would pay him the commission.Why did you try to make an earning from those poor chaps?

[East Africawalla]

Bhai Insaf, Thanks for clarification on the efforts put in by the progressives and I do admire your courage in coming out to fight for the issues prevailing in our community but the problem still persist on how do you convince the rest of the border line orthodox (who may be majority) to embrace your thinking , they have been converted into cowards and are scared to rock the boat thats where I was asking on strategy to get that sort of people to see the 'light' , until you have a strategy of bringing out in the open the curruption, intimidation without being branded as dushman of Molana then it will remain the same. The border line have faith in Molana and once they see you guys propagating anything against him then you are on a losing cause.It will be better to target people at Amil/Bhaisaheb levels and councillors who are misusing power and funds , they are the people who are deemed to normal people who are hurting them financially and socially.

[Humsafar]

East Africawalla,

Good to see you change your tack - from condemning progressive of being 25 years behind to admiring them for their courage.

As for strategy, the best we can do from the outside is to inform and inspire the bohras about what we have done and how it can be done for the rest of the community. Reformist jamaats all over the world are living examples, as it were, of what can be possible. Conferences, seminars, the Bohra Chornicle, this website are part of the strategy to inform and inspire.

In the Seventies and Eighties there also used to be "underground movement" comprising progressive-minded groups who worked from the inside. But those groups faded into oblivion as Kothar's repression grew with time.

Short of infiltrating bohra ranks and provoking revolt, reformists can do little to change the situation. But we neither have the recourses nor the desire to undertake such a project. Even if we did it won't be very effective because ultimately the real change must come from within. The bohra masses must want the change and be ready and primed for it.

That this has not happened is sad. And it is typical of critics and detractors to blame the reform movement for failing to bring reform to the rest of community as if it could be imposed from the outside. The failure is not of reformists but of the bohra masses themselves. They have allowed themselves to be manipulated by petty ignorant mullahs. The strategy for them is simple. Organise and protest.

It can start by two-three-five peopole or families getting together and challenging the amil, refusing to cow down to his demands. Start small and build on it. Get other people - friends, relatives etc. - to join you. Form a united front, as your numbers increase the amil and his henchmen's power will decrease. Organise. Organise. Organise.

Of course, it is easier said than done. But it has to start somewhere. You can't wait to act until you have nothing to lose. That will never happen. You'll always have something or the other to lose. No change in history has come about without sacrifice. If bohras are more interested in their fattening jamans than their dignity then there's little anybody can do about it. If living in constant fear and humiliation won't fire them up then one wonder what will.

[Al Zulfiqar]

udaipurwala,

kyon bhai, mirchi lagi?

is it yr past-time to go nitpicking? in order to deflect attention from yr chest-beating claim of producing a press clipping about the disturbances at the udaipur reformist forum, when u couldnt produce one you asked for more time as you are travelling, but you have time to visit this forum and wave wooden toothpicks in the air in your futile defence..!!!

as for proof about taher saifuddin's first wife and the events surrounding her tragic death (murder), the proof is all around you. why do you think i keep asking about her urus? why is there no mention of her in any religious speeches? when taher saifudin is supposed to be the greatest dai in bohra history (as per the sycophants) why would they put an iron curtain over any mention of his wife, while his weak and inept son's wife is glorified and all sorts of moajiza's are attributed to her? does that make any logical sense to you or anyone else??

why do you think taher saifuddin's first wife's family have left the bohra fold and are leading seperate lives away from the rest of the bohras? why do you think that taher saifuddin persecuted his father-in-law and had him physically and mentally tortured and attacked? try to find answers to these questions and you will get yr proof.

if you have the guts write an arzi to yr shafiq bawasaab and ask for an answer, or approach the abde-syedna amil of udaipur whom you sympathise with and enquire on this topic.

the only reason you have suddenly brought up this topic is because people are after you for the press clipping which you claim to have in yr possession. the date of end april has been marked in the calendars of various members here, when you plan to back up yr claims upon yr return to udaipur.

[udaipurresident]

Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:
udaipurwala,

kyon bhai, mirchi lagi?

is it yr past-time to go nitpicking? in order to deflect attention from yr chest-beating claim of producing a press clipping about the disturbances at the udaipur reformist forum, when u couldnt produce one you asked for more time as you are travelling, but you have time to visit this forum and wave wooden toothpicks in the air in your futile defence..!!!

as for proof about taher saifuddin's first wife and the events surrounding her tragic death (murder), the proof is all around you. why do you think i keep asking about her urus? why is there no mention of her in any religious speeches? when taher saifudin is supposed to be the greatest dai in bohra history (as per the sycophants) why would they put an iron curtain over any mention of his wife, while his weak and inept son's wife is glorified and all sorts of moajiza's are attributed to her? does that make any logical sense to you or anyone else??

why do you think taher saifuddin's first wife's family have left the bohra fold and are leading seperate lives away from the rest of the bohras? why do you think that taher saifuddin persecuted his father-in-law and had him physically and mentally tortured and attacked? try to find answers to these questions and you will get yr proof.

if you have the guts write an arzi to yr shafiq bawasaab and ask for an answer, or approach the abde-syedna amil of udaipur whom you sympathise with and enquire on this topic.

the only reason you have suddenly brought up this topic is because people are after you for the press clipping which you claim to have in yr possession. the date of end april has been marked in the calendars of various members here, when you plan to back up yr claims upon yr return to udaipur.

Zulfi
I claimed that i had seen the event captured in newspaper.At some place you have mentione dthat i dont have the time to collect the clipping but have the time to visit this site, zulfi let me tell you that t collect a clipping i need to go to udaipru or a place where there is the hardcopy of newspaper But to viist this site all you need is a system & the necessary connectivity.
I ask you that if you have the guts then why let me & other people do the homework of re-collecting the papers that you have .Why not put forward these papers in public and save others times.By the way ,you didnt answer my query that why did you make an earnin from the poor chaps who used to collect the medicine from your pharmacy/shop & why did you pay the amil his commission?Where was your self respect/conscious at that time.Were your sense of humanity in herbination at that time?

[Al Zulfiqar]

udaipuri,

there u go again...

re: yr query as to why did we give commission to the amil, he was already dispensing free advice to the gullible bohras on matters such as childlessness and sleeplessness, in the form of duas and taweez's and such stuff.

what my father did was only point him in the right direction by atleast providing some concrete relief with time-tested herbal medicines and the right diet and correcting bad habits etc. so all in all it benefitted those who followed this regimen and caused them no harm. these herbal medicines were very cheap and at the very least it re-inforced the spiritual faith of these people in the deen and the amil when they saw tangible benefits to their physical and mental health.

besides, once the amil was determined to make extra income in this fashion, he would have gone to any other medical store in the area and got his commissions from them. knowing the marwaris and sindhis who ran similar businesses in our area, they wud have easily manipulated the amil to get rid of excess stocks of useless stuff lying with them.

out of all the substantial arguments made by me, is this medical business the only non-issue that u can come up with?

as for yr argument that why shud u go around asking questions and making enquiries about taher saifuddins wife and burhan's mother, do u have an independent mind that sees anomalies around u or not? a mind that can see seriously illogical things and assimilate them into yr own judgement? i have already provided enough fodder for u to exercise yr mind, but u steadfastly refuse to stimulate yr grey cells and instead like a recalcitrant child insist on being spoonfed or go on a hunger strike!

the choice is yrs, whether u accept the reality around u or keep on singing the same refrain..u do not seem to be a reformist at heart, but an embittered soul who does not have peace on either side, neither with the fanatics nor with the reformists.

[Sajid Zafar]

Br. AlZulfiqar:

Quote
“…in order to give them a fitting reply, even a person of reformist bent may be excused for losing his cool.”
Un-quote.

Under no circumstances, one should loose cool especially when it for a greater cause. Two wrongs can not make a right. Rightness has its own power, which people realize sooner or later, only one got to be loud and clear.

Br. AIM

Your judgment is cursory. Your post has rather insulted folks who believe in justice, gender equality and freedom which has been persistently denied by bohra priesthood.

Choice is yours. Salvage your sole or let it stay within the fold of ignorance.

WE WILL SURVIVE.