Two people on this forum will go to hell in their lifetime and they of course we all know what scorpion hole they will end up in.
Those two people are Mohd Husain and Jinx.
They are SO evil that even Satan probably comes to them to ask their help. Though in real life, the Satan is obviously the Great Engineer from Hell.
What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Dear Mumin 110
you started cursing asghar engineer and jinx and
mahammed hussein. what i cannot understant is Mr mohammed burhannudin has created greed,corruption and cultist following of himself and his family,Mr mohammed burhanuddin build lavish mosque every where and he and kothar buy services through massive donation to host country where he influence the corrupt official for his own gains.
mummin 110,wake up from trance of mr mohammed burhannuddin as did he ever mention this donation is from our Bohra community. never he has mention this, he always says I did that and i did this,where this monies come from from bohra communities by forced donation,threat and intimidation of Baraat.
it is nice to have mosque in other country for mummin and their welfare but mummin 110 this monies and properties doesn't belong to Mr mohammed Burannuddin it belongs to Bohra communities,Mr mohammed Burhannudin and Kothar where ever he goes he try to influence the judiciary of the host countries.and by buying out newspaper to write in their favour,and powerful lobbying of politicians.
and other thing for your pea nut brain how many dedicated poor bohras has got NKD or other Title none as because they are not loaded like, if you are Rich and loaded you get Title from Kothar. and don't start cursing me you and your cursing it won't effect me,as many of your type just talk rubbish when they start following like cultist.
you started cursing asghar engineer and jinx and
mahammed hussein. what i cannot understant is Mr mohammed burhannudin has created greed,corruption and cultist following of himself and his family,Mr mohammed burhanuddin build lavish mosque every where and he and kothar buy services through massive donation to host country where he influence the corrupt official for his own gains.
mummin 110,wake up from trance of mr mohammed burhannuddin as did he ever mention this donation is from our Bohra community. never he has mention this, he always says I did that and i did this,where this monies come from from bohra communities by forced donation,threat and intimidation of Baraat.
it is nice to have mosque in other country for mummin and their welfare but mummin 110 this monies and properties doesn't belong to Mr mohammed Burannuddin it belongs to Bohra communities,Mr mohammed Burhannudin and Kothar where ever he goes he try to influence the judiciary of the host countries.and by buying out newspaper to write in their favour,and powerful lobbying of politicians.
and other thing for your pea nut brain how many dedicated poor bohras has got NKD or other Title none as because they are not loaded like, if you are Rich and loaded you get Title from Kothar. and don't start cursing me you and your cursing it won't effect me,as many of your type just talk rubbish when they start following like cultist.
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MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Thank you wise Bohra- Foolish &blinded Mumin 110 has only learnt how to use abusive language &cursing -Well that is what taught in Vaezes & Daras - So let him spit out all the evil he is loaded with 7 may be he will get enlightened on of these days!
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Mumin110
If you have a chance to do a ziyarat, pls go to galikot, go to Taherabad and see the house of Dai before Burhanuddin. They lived in a very simple life…they had simple life and they serve the community. They didn’t live in Saifee mahal place like Firaun, they had a small one bedroom house(which is like a village house) just like other community member and bohra ppl didn’t beg, humbled down in the presence of their Dai. They(previous dai) didn’t go with their bastard and their children to all paid business class trip to US and neither did their bastard lived in mansions in Europe. And they didn’t go on African Safari to kill animals who had the same right to live on this earth just as you and me!Your Dai burhanuddin serves only his family and his relatives. And be happy with the bones that he throw your way after his family had their fill of lavish dinner.
If Burhanuddin and his family plus relative are type of people going to be in paradise, I think I would much prefer life in hell.
If you have a chance to do a ziyarat, pls go to galikot, go to Taherabad and see the house of Dai before Burhanuddin. They lived in a very simple life…they had simple life and they serve the community. They didn’t live in Saifee mahal place like Firaun, they had a small one bedroom house(which is like a village house) just like other community member and bohra ppl didn’t beg, humbled down in the presence of their Dai. They(previous dai) didn’t go with their bastard and their children to all paid business class trip to US and neither did their bastard lived in mansions in Europe. And they didn’t go on African Safari to kill animals who had the same right to live on this earth just as you and me!Your Dai burhanuddin serves only his family and his relatives. And be happy with the bones that he throw your way after his family had their fill of lavish dinner.
If Burhanuddin and his family plus relative are type of people going to be in paradise, I think I would much prefer life in hell.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
progressives! get your act straight! you guys need to take care of your language!
well r u against the dai or the kothars and the accounting system?
in rome live like roman and being a bohra live by its rules, if you cant please leave!
well we move with time! we no longer wear the bell bottom pants which were the epitome of 70 fashion! just think logically! so y should the dai live in a one bedroom house while we bohras can afford to but a castle for our dai!
looking at the other side of the coin , kothars do not treat fairly other people who arent influential but thts everywhere , even in day to day society! i will never get govt contracts if i dont have influence there!
so if you think our 52 dai is wrong , please find your own and move on wioth your life rther thn wasting your energy to throw insults!
mumin110 , like you i have faith in my dai n the principles of bohra religion, tht doesnt give us any rights to abuse anyone watsoever!
silence is golden! let barking dogs bark! so move on with your lives rather than wasting it on changes that is never going to happen!
well r u against the dai or the kothars and the accounting system?
in rome live like roman and being a bohra live by its rules, if you cant please leave!
well we move with time! we no longer wear the bell bottom pants which were the epitome of 70 fashion! just think logically! so y should the dai live in a one bedroom house while we bohras can afford to but a castle for our dai!
looking at the other side of the coin , kothars do not treat fairly other people who arent influential but thts everywhere , even in day to day society! i will never get govt contracts if i dont have influence there!
so if you think our 52 dai is wrong , please find your own and move on wioth your life rther thn wasting your energy to throw insults!
mumin110 , like you i have faith in my dai n the principles of bohra religion, tht doesnt give us any rights to abuse anyone watsoever!
silence is golden! let barking dogs bark! so move on with your lives rather than wasting it on changes that is never going to happen!
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
What is one of the most pathetic, soul-killing and degrading of human conditions?
Slaves justifying their slavery.
Truly, so long as there people like these, Sayedna and his cronies have nothing to fear.
Slaves justifying their slavery.
Truly, so long as there people like these, Sayedna and his cronies have nothing to fear.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Jinx, you went to Galiakot and did not learn anything. 'Vacancy' sign still out there on your top floor.
If you have a chance to do a ziyarat, pls go to galikot, go to Taherabad and see the house of Dai before Burhanuddin
Galiakot aka Taherabad is the resting place of Syedi Fakhruddin Shaheed who was not a Dai.
They lived in a very simple life…they had simple life and they serve the community. They didn’t live in Saifee mahal place like Firaun, they had a small one bedroom house(which is like a village house) just like other community member and bohra ppl didn’t beg, humbled down in the presence of their Dai.
Do you know what his origins were. His father was Tarmal and his uncle was Bharmal, who were the vazir's of Raja Sidhraj Jaysingh. They converted to Imaan in the time of Imam Mustansir. They gave up their nobility and mansions and palaces to serve the Imam and the cause of Dawat. And for your information, Imam Mustansir at that time was living in huge palaces.
And FYI, Syedna Burhanuddin (TUS) is a descendant of Bawjee Fakhruddin Shaheed.
Nowadays, Jinx I see you touting yourself as a follower of Imam("Make your Imam proud of you") but I remember distinctly you disparaging the Imam in an earlier post about Sajda.
A little less of hatred will hopefully make for better and intelligent postings.
If you have a chance to do a ziyarat, pls go to galikot, go to Taherabad and see the house of Dai before Burhanuddin
Galiakot aka Taherabad is the resting place of Syedi Fakhruddin Shaheed who was not a Dai.
They lived in a very simple life…they had simple life and they serve the community. They didn’t live in Saifee mahal place like Firaun, they had a small one bedroom house(which is like a village house) just like other community member and bohra ppl didn’t beg, humbled down in the presence of their Dai.
Do you know what his origins were. His father was Tarmal and his uncle was Bharmal, who were the vazir's of Raja Sidhraj Jaysingh. They converted to Imaan in the time of Imam Mustansir. They gave up their nobility and mansions and palaces to serve the Imam and the cause of Dawat. And for your information, Imam Mustansir at that time was living in huge palaces.
And FYI, Syedna Burhanuddin (TUS) is a descendant of Bawjee Fakhruddin Shaheed.
Nowadays, Jinx I see you touting yourself as a follower of Imam("Make your Imam proud of you") but I remember distinctly you disparaging the Imam in an earlier post about Sajda.
A little less of hatred will hopefully make for better and intelligent postings.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
1)Obviously individuals such as jinx are not in line with their own progressive stand. As I understand it from the home page of this progressive website, you people claim to "challenge the authoritarian ways of the priesthood and not the religious authority of the Da'i (high priest)." Yet challenging the Dai's very authority as the absolute summoner to the faith is what you're doing. Please make a united stand before demanding anything, if they need to be demanded at all.
2)The argument on Syedna (TUS) living in palaces is absolutely fallacious never mind under-informed. Jinx said that living in palaces would make you just like firaun. Firstly, the Fatimi Imams, whom the Dawoodi Bohras firmly believe are the rightful Imams also lived in palaces. So what are you trying to say Jinx? Be careful with your words. Secondly, have you even been to Saifee Mahal? Do you know the modest living living conditions over there and the number of people who live in Saifee Mahal but do not complain? If you dispute me, pls read "Mullahs on the Mainframe" by Jonah Blank, an independant researcher who in his book talks about the modest living conditions in saifee Mahal.
3) Not all members of Syedna's (TUS) family fly by business class. Again, jinx, you're pathetically uninformed. I will not bother to argue further with you on this point until you get yourself some real hard solid facts other than the mumbo-jumbo presented on this site. Just to let you know, I have found so much misinformation on this site, it's not surprising to see why progrssives become such blind followers of Ali Asghar Engineer.
I have a lot more which I would like to argue with you, but I think if you can find suitable rebuttals to the above points, which you can hardly do considering your sources are totally warped, it ould be more than enough.
Let me reaffirm here, and now, that in accordance with the 20th Imam's farmaan before the seclusion of the 21st Imam, I believe that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS), as the 52nd Dai-al-Mutlaq, is the sole representative of Imam-uz-zaman (SA) in seclusion and is the rightful leader and Maula of the Fatemi Dawat.
2)The argument on Syedna (TUS) living in palaces is absolutely fallacious never mind under-informed. Jinx said that living in palaces would make you just like firaun. Firstly, the Fatimi Imams, whom the Dawoodi Bohras firmly believe are the rightful Imams also lived in palaces. So what are you trying to say Jinx? Be careful with your words. Secondly, have you even been to Saifee Mahal? Do you know the modest living living conditions over there and the number of people who live in Saifee Mahal but do not complain? If you dispute me, pls read "Mullahs on the Mainframe" by Jonah Blank, an independant researcher who in his book talks about the modest living conditions in saifee Mahal.
3) Not all members of Syedna's (TUS) family fly by business class. Again, jinx, you're pathetically uninformed. I will not bother to argue further with you on this point until you get yourself some real hard solid facts other than the mumbo-jumbo presented on this site. Just to let you know, I have found so much misinformation on this site, it's not surprising to see why progrssives become such blind followers of Ali Asghar Engineer.
I have a lot more which I would like to argue with you, but I think if you can find suitable rebuttals to the above points, which you can hardly do considering your sources are totally warped, it ould be more than enough.
Let me reaffirm here, and now, that in accordance with the 20th Imam's farmaan before the seclusion of the 21st Imam, I believe that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS), as the 52nd Dai-al-Mutlaq, is the sole representative of Imam-uz-zaman (SA) in seclusion and is the rightful leader and Maula of the Fatemi Dawat.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Anhar
Mullah Jonah blank do not give a fuc* how Burhanuddin ripoff the community, or how many of his family members flew to Houstan carnival on all paid business class ticket by our community monies or how often he goes to african safari to hunt and kill animals or how many of his children and relatives serve in the rich North American and Europe Jamat
Mullah Jonah Blank(author of Mullah on the Mainframe) also do not give a damn about type of beers that is served in safiie mahal or which year the wines are produced
Is that clear br Anhar?
As for Saifee Mahal and other related issue, it will be good if you really take some time to investigate than rambling incoherently.
See, Mullah jonah Blank do not want such things in his book. He gotta think about his readers from orthodox side and all the Abdes that worships the Dai.
Mullah Jonah blank do not give a fuc* how Burhanuddin ripoff the community, or how many of his family members flew to Houstan carnival on all paid business class ticket by our community monies or how often he goes to african safari to hunt and kill animals or how many of his children and relatives serve in the rich North American and Europe Jamat
Mullah Jonah Blank(author of Mullah on the Mainframe) also do not give a damn about type of beers that is served in safiie mahal or which year the wines are produced
Is that clear br Anhar?
As for Saifee Mahal and other related issue, it will be good if you really take some time to investigate than rambling incoherently.
See, Mullah jonah Blank do not want such things in his book. He gotta think about his readers from orthodox side and all the Abdes that worships the Dai.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
jinx... as much as I hate to put you down, I have to say that either you didn't take time to read my last reply properly or you don't know how to read.
get this: Whatever i have mentioned in my last reply is verified, by me personally. So don't ask me to investigate as I have already seen first hand what really goes on in Saifee Mahal. No glamourous, rich and posh stuff. Just simple modest accomodations for the many people who live there. I have been there, have you?
Beer and wine? For god's sake, pls stop making stupid accusations as they are making you look moronic. Really.
As far as I'm concerned I can say with complete confidence that whatever I have written in my last reply is true. Can you? Obviously, the answer is no.
Jinx, please come up with better arguments next time. Arguments which are based on FACT.
get this: Whatever i have mentioned in my last reply is verified, by me personally. So don't ask me to investigate as I have already seen first hand what really goes on in Saifee Mahal. No glamourous, rich and posh stuff. Just simple modest accomodations for the many people who live there. I have been there, have you?
Beer and wine? For god's sake, pls stop making stupid accusations as they are making you look moronic. Really.
As far as I'm concerned I can say with complete confidence that whatever I have written in my last reply is true. Can you? Obviously, the answer is no.
Jinx, please come up with better arguments next time. Arguments which are based on FACT.
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MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Mr Anhar: May be you should define what a Simple Living means to you? Syedna"s children DO NOT earn any money, they all travel first class everywhere in india & other countries-Thier children attend the best private schools & universities at our expense- These did not happen in the time of previous dais who often accrued huge debts running the affairs of Dawat! please wake up ,read & think over!
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MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
By the way If you were living a simple life you would not be able to afford to invite the president Abdul Kalam to your palace (Zunpdi- According to you) either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
My goodness, can you progressives read at all?
Firstly, I said modest life, not simple life. Give me one good reason why the Dai-al-Mutlaq, the highest authority of the Imam in seclusion, should conform to your ideas of a religious leader living in poverty-like conditions. It boggles the mind why you people should think that.
Next, not all Shahzadas travel in first class. Most of the people, including Shahzadas come in economy class with Aqa Maula (TUS). Only one travels in first class with Aqa Maula (TUS) to be in his attendance.
Next, not all the children attend the best private schools and universities. Pls get your facts straight on this one. I refuse to argue with you on this point until you are more well informed and stop making stupid accusations that put you, and others like you, in a moronic light.
In the time of previous Dais, debts existed because of circumstance. Each Dai in satr has to do what is necessary to keep the office of the Imam and the Fatemi Dawat running. When one Dai in these debt-ridden times was asked why he had accumulated so much debt for the dawat and how he planned to repay the debts, the Dai-al-Mutlaq prophesized that the 51st Dai-al-Mutlaq will repay all the debts of Dawat. So, Mohd Hussain, is that the authentication you need?
What does inviting President Kalam have anything at all to do with anything? If Maula (TUS) wishes to invite the president to his residence that is his wish. Didn't it occur to you that perhaps Maula (TUS) did that to ensure the political safety of his Mumineen?
Don't tell me to wake up when you're still in dreamland mohd husain. Don't always listen to pregressive propoganda. open your eyes and see what is really going on.
Firstly, I said modest life, not simple life. Give me one good reason why the Dai-al-Mutlaq, the highest authority of the Imam in seclusion, should conform to your ideas of a religious leader living in poverty-like conditions. It boggles the mind why you people should think that.
Next, not all Shahzadas travel in first class. Most of the people, including Shahzadas come in economy class with Aqa Maula (TUS). Only one travels in first class with Aqa Maula (TUS) to be in his attendance.
Next, not all the children attend the best private schools and universities. Pls get your facts straight on this one. I refuse to argue with you on this point until you are more well informed and stop making stupid accusations that put you, and others like you, in a moronic light.
In the time of previous Dais, debts existed because of circumstance. Each Dai in satr has to do what is necessary to keep the office of the Imam and the Fatemi Dawat running. When one Dai in these debt-ridden times was asked why he had accumulated so much debt for the dawat and how he planned to repay the debts, the Dai-al-Mutlaq prophesized that the 51st Dai-al-Mutlaq will repay all the debts of Dawat. So, Mohd Hussain, is that the authentication you need?
What does inviting President Kalam have anything at all to do with anything? If Maula (TUS) wishes to invite the president to his residence that is his wish. Didn't it occur to you that perhaps Maula (TUS) did that to ensure the political safety of his Mumineen?
Don't tell me to wake up when you're still in dreamland mohd husain. Don't always listen to pregressive propoganda. open your eyes and see what is really going on.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Simon,
Can you comment on the following from Maulana Ali's sermon 208 in Nahjulbalaga:
"Certainly, Allah, the Sublime, has made it obligatory on true leaders that they should maintain themselves at the level of low people so that the poor do not cry over their poverty"
Can you comment on the following from Maulana Ali's sermon 208 in Nahjulbalaga:
"Certainly, Allah, the Sublime, has made it obligatory on true leaders that they should maintain themselves at the level of low people so that the poor do not cry over their poverty"
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
dear anhar
first of our present Dai would't allow to his palaces Bohras who is not loaded and you need very powerful connection to enter his palaces,first obstacle is the cronies at Kothar they want to see if you are loaded with dosh and lots of salaam unless as if are politicians like fascist Bal Thackery and as you said political safety of Mummin but it is to save his family Mr Mohammed Burhannudin invite this fascist by spending loads of bohra community monies for lobbying.
long time ago i posted that even appeasing this fascist Thugs,fascist thugs in Gujarat burn Bohra Business and many Bohra lost their lives so Mr Anhar where was Mr Burhanddin even he kept queit for a while even he farman Bohra mummins not to say anything or to antogonise Hindu,then afterwards they protested very quietly, now this the hypocrsy of Kothar and Mr Mohammed Burhanuddin when there was Asghar Engineer icident which happen on airline back in India few years back, the Kothar Thug cowardly threatened Asghar Engineer and his office Ransacked and bohra all around the world protested through farman of Kothar and Amils.
and about book by 'Mullahs on the Mainrframe' by Jonah Blank, Kothar shrewedly try to present their case that Id card is allright and other thing like eg. excommunicatioin is all part of Bohra cultural norm through 'Mishaq'as Dai has sole authority on Bohras.
I hope ASGHAR ENGINEER OR from progressive intelligisia write a book challenging 'mullah on the mainframe' put some fact right that it is not allright with Bohra community as presented in the book. some research by Jonah Blank is good as he got full cooperation from Mr Mohammed Burhanuddin his sons and Kothar.
Mr Mohammed Burhannuddin and his family i don't care if they live life of luxury, if it is thier own monies through their own business but not Bohra community monies and to look after 380 of the family why!they have to look for proper jobs not to live on handout from bohras community.
previous some dai's were very poverty stricken an they were ashamed to ask for monies from Bohra community so some dai's were in debt.
now Mr Mohammed burhanuddin and his prince and princesses they have become pushy,and arrogant and must forget the Amils whos are close relation of Mr Mohammed burhanuddin get the foreign post and they behave arrogantly and how to siphon the monies out of the Bohras.so Mr anhar i think your mind is condition and brain washing machine by Kothar.
first of our present Dai would't allow to his palaces Bohras who is not loaded and you need very powerful connection to enter his palaces,first obstacle is the cronies at Kothar they want to see if you are loaded with dosh and lots of salaam unless as if are politicians like fascist Bal Thackery and as you said political safety of Mummin but it is to save his family Mr Mohammed Burhannudin invite this fascist by spending loads of bohra community monies for lobbying.
long time ago i posted that even appeasing this fascist Thugs,fascist thugs in Gujarat burn Bohra Business and many Bohra lost their lives so Mr Anhar where was Mr Burhanddin even he kept queit for a while even he farman Bohra mummins not to say anything or to antogonise Hindu,then afterwards they protested very quietly, now this the hypocrsy of Kothar and Mr Mohammed Burhanuddin when there was Asghar Engineer icident which happen on airline back in India few years back, the Kothar Thug cowardly threatened Asghar Engineer and his office Ransacked and bohra all around the world protested through farman of Kothar and Amils.
and about book by 'Mullahs on the Mainrframe' by Jonah Blank, Kothar shrewedly try to present their case that Id card is allright and other thing like eg. excommunicatioin is all part of Bohra cultural norm through 'Mishaq'as Dai has sole authority on Bohras.
I hope ASGHAR ENGINEER OR from progressive intelligisia write a book challenging 'mullah on the mainframe' put some fact right that it is not allright with Bohra community as presented in the book. some research by Jonah Blank is good as he got full cooperation from Mr Mohammed Burhanuddin his sons and Kothar.
Mr Mohammed Burhannuddin and his family i don't care if they live life of luxury, if it is thier own monies through their own business but not Bohra community monies and to look after 380 of the family why!they have to look for proper jobs not to live on handout from bohras community.
previous some dai's were very poverty stricken an they were ashamed to ask for monies from Bohra community so some dai's were in debt.
now Mr Mohammed burhanuddin and his prince and princesses they have become pushy,and arrogant and must forget the Amils whos are close relation of Mr Mohammed burhanuddin get the foreign post and they behave arrogantly and how to siphon the monies out of the Bohras.so Mr anhar i think your mind is condition and brain washing machine by Kothar.
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MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Mr Anhar: I hope you can reply Wise Bohra; Indeed He put everything there wisely!
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Anhar,
Please make a united stand before demanding anything, if they need to be demanded at all.
Freedom for anyone to post on this site (unlike orthodox Bohra sites), does not mean that everyone posting is part of some organized movement. I disagree with with the Progessive movement in that I don't believe there's any Imam in seclusion If you let me post freely on your Orthodox site, I'll switch and post there. Unity is not forced in a free society.
Firstly, the Fatimi Imams, whom the Dawoodi Bohras firmly believe are the rightful Imams also lived in palaces. He did so, and so will I....weak argument. Frankly, I don't give a Rat's ass as to where he lives, but don't you think calling it a Mahal, and his kids Shahzadas is a bit much ? I will even accept that if it is ackowledged that this is a dictatorial Monarchy or even a cult, but not a religious heirarchy.
Jonah Blank, an independant researcher who in his book talks about the modest living conditions in saifee Mahal.
Hogwash ! Jonah (and most others unfamiliar with the culture) would call sitting on a floor and eating in a thaal "modest", white clothes are "modest", Ridahs are "modest". Are there any accounts in his book about gold, cash, ziyafats, safaris, his kids (Shahzadas) living in the US with the community money, extended family travelling everywhere he goes, Kadam Bosi's etc. ? How modest is scheduling time to for a foot-kissing session ? I haven't read the book, so please correct me if I am wrong.
Not all members of Syedna's (TUS) family fly by business class They shouldn't fly with him period, unless they pay there own way and not the community.
Freedom of thought is a wonderful thing, you ought to try it sometime.
Regards.....
Please make a united stand before demanding anything, if they need to be demanded at all.
Freedom for anyone to post on this site (unlike orthodox Bohra sites), does not mean that everyone posting is part of some organized movement. I disagree with with the Progessive movement in that I don't believe there's any Imam in seclusion If you let me post freely on your Orthodox site, I'll switch and post there. Unity is not forced in a free society.
Firstly, the Fatimi Imams, whom the Dawoodi Bohras firmly believe are the rightful Imams also lived in palaces. He did so, and so will I....weak argument. Frankly, I don't give a Rat's ass as to where he lives, but don't you think calling it a Mahal, and his kids Shahzadas is a bit much ? I will even accept that if it is ackowledged that this is a dictatorial Monarchy or even a cult, but not a religious heirarchy.
Jonah Blank, an independant researcher who in his book talks about the modest living conditions in saifee Mahal.
Hogwash ! Jonah (and most others unfamiliar with the culture) would call sitting on a floor and eating in a thaal "modest", white clothes are "modest", Ridahs are "modest". Are there any accounts in his book about gold, cash, ziyafats, safaris, his kids (Shahzadas) living in the US with the community money, extended family travelling everywhere he goes, Kadam Bosi's etc. ? How modest is scheduling time to for a foot-kissing session ? I haven't read the book, so please correct me if I am wrong.
Not all members of Syedna's (TUS) family fly by business class They shouldn't fly with him period, unless they pay there own way and not the community.
Freedom of thought is a wonderful thing, you ought to try it sometime.
Regards.....
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Oh boy, you people are really trying to prove how moronic you are, aren't you?
First of all, Muddai, when you do not even believe in the Imam in Seclusion, it would just go to show that you're NOT a Dawoodi Bohra. Therefore, any information that you may have about us would primarily be from this highly biased and non-representative website.So really, I don't give a lot of credibility to your arguments or whatever you may have to say. By the way, the children of previous Dai's from the very first Dai during period of satr have been called Shahzadas and kissing the feet of the Dai has been a tradition since also the first dai during satr, Syedna Zoeb (RA). I shall not waste time and effort arguing with you.
As for Wisebohra (ironically named, given his lack of wisdom), EVERY mumin, no matter from what background is allowed into Saifee Mahal at appropriate times. There are specific times where mumineen can do Qadambosi of their Dai and there are times when no one is allowed. Let me re-iterate that ALL mumineen are allowed. I will be your garuantor for that. It would be reasonable to expect that Saifee Mahal would be closed to the public at certain times as it is, after all, the residence of the Dai.
If you want to talk about hypocracy, listen to this. Even Mr Engineer has links to many politicians including Hindu Chauvanist ones, as he is claimed to have by his own words and independant publications. So pls don't come here screaming hypocracy because it makes you look really dumb.
I dare the progressive camp to produce a publication, with good credibility, challenging Mullahs on the Mainframe. And then ask independant observers to compare the two publications. I can confidently tell you that Jonah Blank's study was independant, not influenced by anyone as he has also done a study on the progressives with many meetings with Mr Engineer.
Freedom of thought is a wonderful thing, you ought to try it sometime.
Mr Muddai, pls follow your own advice and try to even for a second realise that what you read on this website may not be true. While freedom of thought is wonderful, freedom also comes with responsibilities. Use your thoughts responsibly and try to open up your mind to possiblities instead of always believing biased media. I would then say, it is only you who do not have complete freedom of thought.
First of all, Muddai, when you do not even believe in the Imam in Seclusion, it would just go to show that you're NOT a Dawoodi Bohra. Therefore, any information that you may have about us would primarily be from this highly biased and non-representative website.So really, I don't give a lot of credibility to your arguments or whatever you may have to say. By the way, the children of previous Dai's from the very first Dai during period of satr have been called Shahzadas and kissing the feet of the Dai has been a tradition since also the first dai during satr, Syedna Zoeb (RA). I shall not waste time and effort arguing with you.
As for Wisebohra (ironically named, given his lack of wisdom), EVERY mumin, no matter from what background is allowed into Saifee Mahal at appropriate times. There are specific times where mumineen can do Qadambosi of their Dai and there are times when no one is allowed. Let me re-iterate that ALL mumineen are allowed. I will be your garuantor for that. It would be reasonable to expect that Saifee Mahal would be closed to the public at certain times as it is, after all, the residence of the Dai.
If you want to talk about hypocracy, listen to this. Even Mr Engineer has links to many politicians including Hindu Chauvanist ones, as he is claimed to have by his own words and independant publications. So pls don't come here screaming hypocracy because it makes you look really dumb.
I dare the progressive camp to produce a publication, with good credibility, challenging Mullahs on the Mainframe. And then ask independant observers to compare the two publications. I can confidently tell you that Jonah Blank's study was independant, not influenced by anyone as he has also done a study on the progressives with many meetings with Mr Engineer.
Freedom of thought is a wonderful thing, you ought to try it sometime.
Mr Muddai, pls follow your own advice and try to even for a second realise that what you read on this website may not be true. While freedom of thought is wonderful, freedom also comes with responsibilities. Use your thoughts responsibly and try to open up your mind to possiblities instead of always believing biased media. I would then say, it is only you who do not have complete freedom of thought.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
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Yes indeed. Dais are prophets!!!!!When one Dai in these debt-ridden times was asked why he had accumulated so much debt for the dawat and how he planned to repay the debts, the Dai-al-Mutlaq prophesized that the 51st Dai-al-Mutlaq will repay all the debts of Dawat. So, Mohd Hussain, is that the authentication you need?
Yes my Bohra brothers you will be allawed into palace to commit SHIRK.no matter from what background is allowed into Saifee Mahal at appropriate times. There are specific times where mumineen can do Qadambosi of their Dai
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Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
it would just go to show that you're NOT a Dawoodi Bohra.
Now that we have established that you are a Rocket Scientist, please don't skirt the issue.
any information that you may have about us would primarily be from this highly biased and non-representative website
Well, you are on it aren't you ? I would call that representative, unless you can point me to a Bohra site we can all post on, regardless of our bias. Incdientally, I was one of you for a long time, brainwashed and ignorant.
I shall not waste time and effort arguing with you
My apologies, I thought we were having a discussion.
it is only you who do not have complete freedom of thought
Childish approach...please present facts.
Better luck next time.
Now that we have established that you are a Rocket Scientist, please don't skirt the issue.
any information that you may have about us would primarily be from this highly biased and non-representative website
Well, you are on it aren't you ? I would call that representative, unless you can point me to a Bohra site we can all post on, regardless of our bias. Incdientally, I was one of you for a long time, brainwashed and ignorant.
I shall not waste time and effort arguing with you
My apologies, I thought we were having a discussion.
it is only you who do not have complete freedom of thought
Childish approach...please present facts.
Better luck next time.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Childish approach? You should really take a look at your own reply and start to practice what you preach.
I have already presented the facts. What you have done is to just avoid discussing the facts themselves and end up telling me that my sources are warped, that I should have my head examined or even that I'm committing shirk.
When the scope of argument, or discussion in your terms, is about what the Dai is doing and not who and what position he is in, you guys come along and start attcking the fundamental faith of the dawoodi Bohras, progressive and orthodox alike. I had said the Dai prophesized. But Mr Muslim First decides to comprehend the sentence his own way in his own brand of english. I did not say the Dai is a prophet. Please read and comprehend english properly.
I am afraid to say that while I have been taking a mature stance and been keeping to the topic, you people have been deviating from the topic of discussion over and over again just to make you look right. Now THAT is what I call childish and immature.
Muddai, if you have left the faith, its only you who needs better luck.
I have already presented the facts. What you have done is to just avoid discussing the facts themselves and end up telling me that my sources are warped, that I should have my head examined or even that I'm committing shirk.
When the scope of argument, or discussion in your terms, is about what the Dai is doing and not who and what position he is in, you guys come along and start attcking the fundamental faith of the dawoodi Bohras, progressive and orthodox alike. I had said the Dai prophesized. But Mr Muslim First decides to comprehend the sentence his own way in his own brand of english. I did not say the Dai is a prophet. Please read and comprehend english properly.
I am afraid to say that while I have been taking a mature stance and been keeping to the topic, you people have been deviating from the topic of discussion over and over again just to make you look right. Now THAT is what I call childish and immature.
Muddai, if you have left the faith, its only you who needs better luck.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Anhar,
Defending the indefensible is a tricky business. You think that by disproving a few minor points of detail and calling people moronic you can gloss over the deep-seated corruption and criminality of the ‘royal family’. The atrocities of your royal family are not only well-documented but are also experienced daily by thousands of Bohras.
What you say here to support and justify the slave masters has not only no credibility but reeks of shamelessness to boot. Muddai is right, this is a forum for progressives (and others) to air their ideas. What the progressives say here is not necessary the “official” stand of the reform movement. We have our differences and that’s the whole point. We dare to differ in public. We’ve nothing to hide, no axe to grind.
This is not your malumaat.com or mumineen.org or any of those dime a dozen obsequious jamaat sites where courtiers like you have no freedom whatever but only the responsibility to preserve and glorify the pathetic, petty tyranny. Yet you have the temerity (I guess it comes naturally) to come to this site, speak your mind and then call it propaganda.
I won’t even pretend to be flabbergasted by your behaviour. People like you who drink at the trough of power and privilege (an insider that you are) lose no time in losing their honour and their humanity.
Defending the indefensible is a tricky business. You think that by disproving a few minor points of detail and calling people moronic you can gloss over the deep-seated corruption and criminality of the ‘royal family’. The atrocities of your royal family are not only well-documented but are also experienced daily by thousands of Bohras.
What you say here to support and justify the slave masters has not only no credibility but reeks of shamelessness to boot. Muddai is right, this is a forum for progressives (and others) to air their ideas. What the progressives say here is not necessary the “official” stand of the reform movement. We have our differences and that’s the whole point. We dare to differ in public. We’ve nothing to hide, no axe to grind.
This is not your malumaat.com or mumineen.org or any of those dime a dozen obsequious jamaat sites where courtiers like you have no freedom whatever but only the responsibility to preserve and glorify the pathetic, petty tyranny. Yet you have the temerity (I guess it comes naturally) to come to this site, speak your mind and then call it propaganda.
I won’t even pretend to be flabbergasted by your behaviour. People like you who drink at the trough of power and privilege (an insider that you are) lose no time in losing their honour and their humanity.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Anhar,
I have already presented the facts.
With all due respect, if my intellect could accept your facts as such, my head would be reeling from endless bouts of Kadam Bosis, and purjosh mataams. I would wakeup daily and kiss pictures on the screen of malumaat.com, place 5 bucks in some jar before I left home, and bury pictures and scriptures in my backyard. I would have also used a chunk of my net worth to have Sheik in front of my name, as in Sheik Muddai.
Now that you are on a "discussion board", please reply to my original post, point by point. Or please refer me to your un- biased and representative board that I can post on.( Surely you have one don't you ) ?
You can't get away that easy.....
I have already presented the facts.
With all due respect, if my intellect could accept your facts as such, my head would be reeling from endless bouts of Kadam Bosis, and purjosh mataams. I would wakeup daily and kiss pictures on the screen of malumaat.com, place 5 bucks in some jar before I left home, and bury pictures and scriptures in my backyard. I would have also used a chunk of my net worth to have Sheik in front of my name, as in Sheik Muddai.
Now that you are on a "discussion board", please reply to my original post, point by point. Or please refer me to your un- biased and representative board that I can post on.( Surely you have one don't you ) ?
You can't get away that easy.....
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Hey Bitch,Originally posted by jinx:
Mumin110
They(previous dai) didn’t go with their bastard and their children to all paid business class trip to US and neither did their bastard lived in mansions in Europe.
If Burhanuddin and his family plus relative are type of people going to be in paradise, I think I would much prefer life in hell.
Mind your language.. You have a lot of guts to speak behind anonymity. Why ? dont have the guts ?
Why do you keep on coming back to our community like a Dog(bitch?) if you dont like our community. Hey, this is how our community is.. Take it or leave it.. You are fere to leave.. go join the ithna asharais or the Ahmadis or the 69 other firkas out there.. No need to stay with us.. and be hypochrites.
you insult the leader of our community and nothing gives you the right to be abusive to our leaders.. We should have no sympathy for people like you in our community. You know you all stand out very much when you come to our markaz or masjids, with your sarcastic looks and your scorns.. Dont think we dont know who you are...but we tolerate you.. but better no tot test our patience.. It is not a weakness, it is just a hope somewhere that you will come around.
You are like a scorpion whose nature is to sting no matter what... I am sure you all have heard the story of the frog and the scorpion.
Yes, there are a few bumps in the way things work in our community but that is there in every community. See the catholics.. priests get trasnefrred frmo community to community after charges of molesting kids..
No one asks the pope why he commands billions of dollars and thousands of churches around the world? Where isnt there corruption..? But to go ahead and blame our Aqa Maula TUS for everythign is downright stupid and shows your low intelligence.
And about going to hell, rest assured you will go to hell, there is no doubt whatsoever in that, but the tragedy is that it will be too easy a punishment for you.. You should suffer some hell here before you end up where you will...
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THE OPPOSITION
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
GO jinx enuf respect to u
i wish i had stumbled upon this lil glodmine earlier, finally sum1 who is not afraid to speak the truth!!!!!
i wish i had stumbled upon this lil glodmine earlier, finally sum1 who is not afraid to speak the truth!!!!!
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mohammed_truthseeker
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
The Progressives need to debate on one point at a time. For E.g. if the progressives claim that Syedna and his family travels first class or business class to all parts of the world and the orthos refute that claim then let us argue and debate and discuss on this topic till it is beaten to death. There should be no distractions from this topic till we arrive at a common conclusion through fact based reasoning and then we are ready to move to the next discussion item on the agenda. But please dont try and discuss multiple points at once. I have read many previous posts and I have seen that most post end up without getting to a logical conclusion because the topics of discussion are not pointed enough. Take one issue at a time and lets discuss again.Originally posted by anhar:
My goodness, can you progressives read at all?
Firstly, I said modest life, not simple life. Give me one good reason why the Dai-al-Mutlaq, the highest authority of the Imam in seclusion, should conform to your ideas of a religious leader living in poverty-like conditions. It boggles the mind why you people should think that.
Next, not all Shahzadas travel in first class. Most of the people, including Shahzadas come in economy class with Aqa Maula (TUS). Only one travels in first class with Aqa Maula (TUS) to be in his attendance.
Next, not all the children attend the best private schools and universities. Pls get your facts straight on this one. I refuse to argue with you on this point until you are more well informed and stop making stupid accusations that put you, and others like you, in a moronic light.
In the time of previous Dais, debts existed because of circumstance. Each Dai in satr has to do what is necessary to keep the office of the Imam and the Fatemi Dawat running. When one Dai in these debt-ridden times was asked why he had accumulated so much debt for the dawat and how he planned to repay the debts, the Dai-al-Mutlaq prophesized that the 51st Dai-al-Mutlaq will repay all the debts of Dawat. So, Mohd Hussain, is that the authentication you need?
What does inviting President Kalam have anything at all to do with anything? If Maula (TUS) wishes to invite the president to his residence that is his wish. Didn't it occur to you that perhaps Maula (TUS) did that to ensure the political safety of his Mumineen?
Don't tell me to wake up when you're still in dreamland mohd husain. Don't always listen to pregressive propoganda. open your eyes and see what is really going on.
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Hussain_KSA
- Posts: 874
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
Admin,Originally posted by Mumin110:
Hey Bitch,
Mind your language.. You have a lot of guts to ......[/QB]
Taheri cult's leader and his abdeyes are well known in insulting and misbehaving womens. I would like to request you that Such kind of address should be banned from the board.
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
the above exchange seems to have taken place quite a few years ago and revived because someone dug it up from its grave.
what it only proves is the viciousness and venom in the hearts of the kothari abde-syednas..
admin has done a good job retaining this post as-is without editing it, as it only highlights the real nature of the blind slaves of the syedna.
what it only proves is the viciousness and venom in the hearts of the kothari abde-syednas..
admin has done a good job retaining this post as-is without editing it, as it only highlights the real nature of the blind slaves of the syedna.
Re: What makes Yuthis such blind followers of Asghar Enginee
@mumin110
At the end of this thread, one thing comes out clearly that the progressives, called yuthis by you are by no means blind followers of anybody, let alone Asghar Engineer, though he is respected as a scholar. Nobody kisses his feet or calls him Aqa Moula (Master) and calls himself Abde (Slave).
On the other hand the orthodox bohras, as some on the forum call Taheris, do all these things, directed to Muhammad Burhanuddin.
Don't you think we should rename this thread as "What makes Taheris such blind followers of Mohammad Burhanuddin?"
At the end of this thread, one thing comes out clearly that the progressives, called yuthis by you are by no means blind followers of anybody, let alone Asghar Engineer, though he is respected as a scholar. Nobody kisses his feet or calls him Aqa Moula (Master) and calls himself Abde (Slave).
On the other hand the orthodox bohras, as some on the forum call Taheris, do all these things, directed to Muhammad Burhanuddin.
Don't you think we should rename this thread as "What makes Taheris such blind followers of Mohammad Burhanuddin?"