GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO

[africawalla]

The faith in the Dai is with every Bohras and that where the reformist are struggling to relay their message , the problem is the people below his the no gooders who are in there for their own financial and status gains, thats the people the reformist should target, once you speak against the Dai you will get no audience
Therefore the action plan should be targeting the misdeeds of the Amils and the Ayans and publising that to get the heart and minds of the mainstream bohoras, you have to state that you are not against the Dai but against the people who are misusing his name of their own greed. That sort of people are in thousands in every jamaats who are councillors, I am not saying that all of them are currupt but majority are.

The reformist has to change its stance on how they intend to reform , at the moment they are not successful because they are being looked upon as Dai na dushman and thats where they fail.

[SBM]

Quote from Africawalla

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"you have to state that you are not against the Dai
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The following is the mission statement of this site:
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We challenge the authoritarian ways of the priesthood and not the religious authority of the Da'i (high priest).
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[accountability]

Africawala, you are right in your above post. You rightly said, that belief in Dai is part of our faith.

Having said that, I think, this is the stance taken by reformists too. I have not seen or read one thing on this board, as to officail stance of reformists, which denies the status of Dai and dawat. What you have described are actually reforms, and reformation of Jamaat's configuration. I do believe, that it has become imperative. Syedna Saheb's family has also been involved in all kinds of scandals. If you recall, a year or two ago, Malik bhaisaheb was involved with IRS, he has to (.....) pay dearly to get out of this.

Here is the genuine problem, how can you complaint about Malik bhaisaheb, and to whom. As Malik bhai saheb got away with it without consequences, it emboldened the jamaat's lower heirarchy to indulge in all kinds of scams and scandals and that too without consequences. Unless Syedna saheb takes back the administrative powers from his sons and his immediate family, reforms can not take place.

To straighen the system, we shall have to go back to our basic religious structure, i.e. Dawat has three main offices, Dai, Mazoon and Mukasir. Dai is the head, and under Dai's stewardship, Mazoon and Mukasir are to run the administration. All sub ordinate ummals are accountable to their respective jamaat in matters of administration, and to Dawat (Dai, Mazoon and Mukasir) in relgious matters.

Africawala, we should all strive to restore Dawat to its original structure and aim. Our faith in dai at any given time should be firm, but we also should try to clean the administration of unscrupolous elements. You have so rightly mentioned, that amils and office bearers majority are corrupt and misguided. What they are doing is, they are exploiting the faith in dai for their nafarious motives and money making. People like us (you and me) should expose their designs and take them to task.

[Danish]

I’ve been reading several posts in here lately after abandoning this forum for some time now but do acknowledge some intellectual and encouraging discussions by a few. I understand the good purpose of reformists and their candidness and courage to openly denounce injustices. At one point I too was actively involved in educating and enlightening the naïve about the inhumane measures and high-handedness of priestly officials, but to no avail. Below are generally the responses thrown at me from my own family members, relatives, friends and acquaintances:

1. To you your religion and to me mine and that you have no right to criticize and to remain silent, else your life will be miserable.
2. We know it but are afraid to confront since they have witnessed the painful harassments and even life-threatening situations of others. It is not worth the struggle and no “real” harm done.
3. There’s no human on earth like our Bawa Saheb and the Bohra culture is second to none and that you must understand and submit without question.
4. It’s all part-n-parcel of life and nowhere else to turn to and must remain in the footsteps of our forefathers.

The crux of all problems lies in the very religious beliefs at the face value of God Delusion, man-made gods and conjectural materials that have turned our entire humanity into segregations, where the elite have successfully managed to brainwash the gullible by extrapolating pretentiously harmonious yet cunning and dangerous ways to solicit greed and creed for their selfish genes. The Dawoodi Bohra community is one such cult embedded with sadistic religious jargons, much of what is far from being Islamic to begin with, where a few millions have fallen prey to via sheer domination and subversiveness. It is even more embarrassing to watch highly educated individuals surrounded and living in such frameworks of lives displaying their possessive and arrogant minds to reason, eyes to vision and ears to listen.

[marabu]

many thanks for posting your thoughts and frustrations about bohras and our families.my response to your points are as follows

1 sura qul ya hul kaffirun applies to non muslims only (thanks to notes posted by muslim first)
2i agree with you that most of my relatives are believers of this

3bullshit and this has been bone of contention but i lose as i do no not have enough faith or yakeen
4 again have to admit that my forefathers were hindus in gujarat so should i follow modi and his gang or burhanuddin and his gang.aqal(intelligence) is only thing which differentiates me from hewan

i trusts some of the points will let you have somesay among your relatives.

[africawalla]

Guys you are missing my point, as you are saying that your years of fighting for your cause is not getting through to the majority , thats the question you need to ask why? you have to change tactics, play politics , play the british game divide and win , the question is how? as i said that slagging of Dai and mukadas Dai and their family is not going to help as you are making the bohras unite together when confronted with such stories therefore stop that as soon as possible. You should target issues which Bohras are facing now like demands of enormous Sabil payments in Canada and UK , if you can convince people to argue against such payments and refuce to pay, its easy to get people on your side when they face day to day problems but if you try to suddenly convince to change all the religious belief it does not work.

All this can only work if you are inside the mainstream Bohras and will never work from outside
So all the guys who are closet reformist needs to work on how to work on this local issues

[mohammed_truthseeker]

Exactly, Africawalla ...you have hit the nail on the head. This is the point I was trying to make some time back to the reformist in one of the threads I started.

[makberi]

my knowledge of bohra reform movement history is limited but from wat i have understood, the progressives havent really attacked the syedna directly...though personally i dont buy the story that the syedna isnt aware of wats goin on...in any case wat the kothar has smartly done has always made these accusations of corruption seem like they are attacks on the religion making them "dawat na dushmano"....
i m still optimistic though cuz i truly believe that ppl cant be goofed like this for too long. its been good as most economies where bohras reside in have been doin well. but now there is talks of a US recession, which wil affect the canadian and UK economies. there have been recessions b4....but the kothar hasnt been dependent on foreign money like it is now

[Al Zulfiqar]

""The crux of all problems lies in the very religious beliefs at the face value of God Delusion, man-made gods and conjectural materials that have turned our entire humanity into segregations, where the elite have successfully managed to brainwash the gullible by extrapolating pretentiously harmonious yet cunning and dangerous ways to solicit greed and creed for their selfish genes. The Dawoodi Bohra community is one such cult embedded with sadistic religious jargons, much of what is far from being Islamic to begin with, where a few millions have fallen prey to via sheer domination and subversiveness. It is even more embarrassing to watch highly educated individuals surrounded and living in such frameworks of lives displaying their possessive and arrogant minds to reason, eyes to vision and ears to listen.""

too much for us lesser mortals to comprehend..only those with 2 masters degrres and more may understand....!!!

[Danish]

Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:
""The crux of all problems lies in the very religious beliefs at the face value of God Delusion, man-made gods and conjectural materials that have turned our entire humanity into segregations, where the elite have successfully managed to brainwash the gullible by extrapolating pretentiously harmonious yet cunning and dangerous ways to solicit greed and creed for their selfish genes. The Dawoodi Bohra community is one such cult embedded with sadistic religious jargons, much of what is far from being Islamic to begin with, where a few millions have fallen prey to via sheer domination and subversiveness. It is even more embarrassing to watch highly educated individuals surrounded and living in such frameworks of lives displaying their possessive and arrogant minds to reason, eyes to vision and ears to listen.""

too much for us lesser mortals to comprehend..only those with 2 masters degrres and more may understand....!!!

I'm afraid that is just an emotional excuse that serves no purpose of a reformist. While education is important in our earthly materialistic surroundings to attain better socioeconomic lifestyles, it doesn’t take even an eight grader to understand the wrongdoings and injustices throbbed upon them, let alone master’s degrees. Might as well give up and stick to the hell-holes, like all other secular citizens voluptuously and magically subservient to their Dawoodi Bohra creed and greed that are utterly disproportionate and outwardly insane to anyone’s common sense.

Did/does your holiness and his alleged “guardian angels” had/have masters degrees in successfully keeping their alliance strong and intact all over the world or do they simply possess self-inflicted, self-acclaimed and self-proclaimed conjectural and nonsensical religious materials to dominate and call it spiritual, righteous and ultimate Islam? If that is the case, then why the double standards of reforming or is it just the money that bothers you from giving away and for taking any part in this fake and fraudulent cult?

[SBM]

Gulf has not replied to me so far about Sayedna Burhanuddin's mother urus and where is her roza and why it is not encouraged to visit her grave when Sayedna's wife's roza is there in Londaon and her urus is commemorated
Asked by AZ or Safiuddin

[africawalla]

Oma, please don't keep on going on about an old topic, what difference does it make to you

[makberi]

this mite have been discussed on the forum b4....but is azim premji a bohra??.....well i know he is an ismaili (read that in an article on indian express)....also read in a blog that he is a "bohra muslim".....though not sure how accurate that is.....pls tell me he is!!!....looking for sme inspiration in the community

[Gursevak]

sorry to disappoint you - he is an agakhani although not very religious