ARE WE MISSING THE POINT

[Nicky Dhanjal]

First to all who Dont know me, I am a Sikh by Religion. Made a few contributions earlier.

From what I understand, Reformists are fighting an Individual and his procedures and not the Community or Religion per say. Correct me If I am wrong.

First and Foremost, i am to understand that thumping of the chest during the first ten days of the year is done by most if not all Shias. These include Iraqis, Iranians and also Itnashirs. Some even use weapons. Now then How can the reformists claim it is something the old man introduced. Is Crying Bad when Grieving? The death of Hussein (I am not Sure) and his clan from whom all shias draw ancestorship, is something that would justify Crying and thumping of chests unless reformists claim that is wrong history potrayed. Was Thumping of Chest and Crying introduced to all Shias world wide by the old man?

Secondly somewhere I read that all these meetings with high profile dignitaries is to corrupt them so the Old man and his next of Kin can carry on with their Corruption. Yes In Africa and Asia these is possible but In Middle East? Please re think. Why would the Crown Prince of DUBAI send a personal Jet and Provide Personal Cars and VIP treatment to an Old Man?? I am sure Maktoum has more money then the old man could have bribed him with? again the costs Maktoum incurred in providing the facilities would be already higher then the Old Man could offer. Again, Why would he keep on visiting the Old Man instead of asking the Old Man to visit him? Must be out of Respect for the Old man's age But I am very sure he was not going to collect Payments. I am also told Dubai waived the VISA fees for all Bohoras visiting Dubai during a specific period. I am not sure if this has happened before. Why did Dubai do that as they would have earned Well over a Million Dollars Just in Visa Fees.

Then Aamir of Kuwait (whose currency is stronger then the USD) sends a Plane to the Old man to visit his country. Is the Aamir so desperate for the few Millions the Old man has to offer? Or does the Aamir also have some other motives behind his actions?

If the above was done by Local orthodox bohoras to impress the old man and world at large (Of Course through Bribing corrupt Officials), Then Hats of to them as They really did a good job.

Now why I Personally Think he is closer to God then most of Us. His age is 90+ (I hope no one will say he is lying about that)and travels all around the world. He is still very healthy compared to his age mates. Now the Issue of Luxury will come in. Remember Catholics are more richer then all Bohoras combined, and provide utmost luxury to the POPE but Ten years younger Pope is really ill to an extent he forgets. Now God Loves this Old Man. (This is a Personal Opnion).

After all the Above, Irrespective of the Old Man being Corrupt or Not, Dictator or Not, and all the Bad things said and written about him being true or not, He is one of the Respected Muslim Leaders in the World and GOD loves him too.

I would advise the reformists to avoid attacking the Shias in General by belittling the crying and thumping of chest and concentrate on bringing the change they are fighting for.

Will wait for the responses and please let leave it clean.

[rasul redoy]

Nicky br. Sikh, I applaud your courage in taking an objective stance on the "Old Man". Although I don't necessarily endorse everything that "bohra officialdom" does, I agree with you that our friends on this board have become a little too obsessive-compulsive about him, "losing sight of the forest for the tree" and turning him into a veritable "root of all evils"! Instead of bashing the general Shia heritage, we should borrow a page from you guys and focus more on our venerable Imams, the way you do the teachings of your 10 Gurus.

[Humsafar]

What is your point Nicky? You're a Sikh and, why in Nanak's name, should you concern yourself with Bohra and Shia affairs? I'm sure your community has enough problems already - akalis, nirankaris, apostasy, identity crisis etc - for you to worry about how despotic rulers of Dubai and Kuwait treat our beloved old Sayedna. By the way, I'm touched by your love and respect for him. He will be thrilled to know that he can count a Sikh among his devotees.

If you are for real, then it might be you who is missing the point and, also perhaps, the entire purpose of your life.

If you're an orthodox imposter pretending to be a Sikh you're beyond pathetic.

[Nicky Dhanjal]

Dear Humsafar,

I might be missing the whole point of my life but you are still missing the point!!! You would have loved if I bashed the Old man with Abuses. Please respond only when you can prove what I have written is wrong. Or are you trying to become a very Active Member and thus just posting replies for the sake?

NOW LET ME REPLY YOU IN DETAIL:

You're a Sikh and, why in Nanak's name, should you concern yourself with Bohra and Shia affairs? I'm sure your community has enough problems already - akalis, nirankaris, apostasy, identity crisis etc

MY REPLY: Your are a Bohora (Reformists) and why should you concern yourself with Sikh Affairs? Humsafar, you know quite alot about Sikhs and their problems!!!

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By the way, I'm touched by your love and respect for him. He will be thrilled to know that he can count a Sikh among his devotees.

MY REPLY: Thanks, My Parents taught me to respect any elder irrespective of religion or colour. And I might not be a Devotee but yes he can count on me anytime so can you or anyone else.

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If you are for real, then it might be you who is missing the point and, also perhaps, the entire purpose of your life.
If you're an orthodox imposter pretending to be a Sikh you're beyond pathetic.

MY REPLY: Now who is beyond Pathetic? My details are with the Moderators who can Verify and just incase you know of a Reformist in Kenya ask them about Nicky Dhanjal, They will tell you I exist in Real. Now Please lets show you are for real too! Give us your full details. If Humsafar is your real name then your parents must be from Bollywood!

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My Conclusion: You are an Orthodox who thinks he can use this forum to fight the authority but does not have guts to come out in the open.

[Anwar]

Its all well for you Nicky Dhanjal, to give your name and identity, as no bohri can touch you or your family.(I do not mean physically, a bohri will never confront a paaji haha)) If you, as you say, know about the bohri problems, then you should also know what pressure the orthodox put on those who question their way. And this is very true in Kenya, specially Mombasa. One very important instrument is Baraat, excommunication. They do not even blik twice to tell a son/father/close family member to break their relationship. One cannot even give a last rights to ones loved ones during burrial as those ex-communicated are not allowed to go to their loved ones burrial. May be you did not know about this, or may be you just want to ignore it. You have definately something to gain by giving your name, as your business will definately prosper everytime moula visits Mombasa. They will definately be needing a lot of hotel nights, and they can always rely on Nicky Dhanjal.

[thinker]

Mr Nicky Dhanjal by mentioning that Kuwait's currency is stronger than US, seems to imply that Kuwait is economically a powerhouse compared to the United States. To dispel this myth I am attaching the following dollar figures obtained from the World Bank site:

Gross National Income (GNI):
35.2bn (Kuwait)
8.7trillion (USA)

GNI per capita:
17,390 (Kuwait)
38,000 (USA)

GDP growth:
-1% (Kuwait)
+4.3% (USA)

Thus observing the economic indicators, it is clear that USA has a GNI 2400 times that of Kuwait. Each person in the USA earns more than double that of a Kuwaiti citizen. The GDP of USA is increasing at the rate of 4.3% while that of Kuwait is actually declining by 1%.

His other opinions are similiarly ridiculous and do not deem a reply. Especially the opinion that a person who lives longer and healthier is closer to God than a younger or more sicker person.

Considering the above figures it is clear why Sikhs are famous or should I say infamous for their poor intellect.