Survey poll

[jamanpasand]

Survey Poll

This survey is based on some assumptions.

The communication link of syedna burhanuddin with imam uz zamam has broken.
That link can not be restored. By the time syedna dies without making valid nass.
Kothar decides to elect the new syedna by democratic method, i.e.,
asking all mumineens( kotharis as well reformists) to use their vote.
Whom you will vote for amongst the following nominees:

1. present mazum
2. Quid Johar bs
3. Muffadil bs
4. Ali Asghar bs
5. None of the above.

If your answer ( 5 ), then your are allowed to make one choice of your nominee. Brief background of your nominee is required and the reason for your selection.

[moomin052]

i would want mr.asger engineer as dai and mr.s insaaf as his deputy,then the dawat would have no taxes,no jamans,no fatehas,no prayers,no remembering of our loved ones who have died,no islamic laws to be followed only democracy,no islamic clothes to be worn except at mayats even then optional,no sherullah,no ashara,no ziyarats,no matam and all other possible nos. only thing required would be mohabbat of mr asger and mr. insaaf and they will guarantee your place jannat. And of course they will be totally accountable to each and every bohra and every moronic bohra would be free to abuse them at will and be called a progressive bohra,

[tahir]

Originally posted by moomin052:
i would want mr.asger engineer as dai and mr.s insaaf as his deputy,then the dawat would have no taxes....no islamic laws to be followed only democracy,no islamic clothes to be worn except at mayats....

Can u list some Islamic laws followed by dawoodi bohras....infact, can u justify the existance of dawat through Quran or Hadees? Is sajada (before dai) and kadambosi Islamic?

[kabeer19922001]

Quote of the year by Momin52

only thing required would be mohabbat of mr asger and mr. insaaf and they will guarantee your place jannat. And of course they will be totally accountable to each and every bohra and every moronic bohra would be free to abuse them at will and be called a progressive bohra,

Dear M52

I don't think Mr. Engineer is stupid to make claims guarateeing places in Jannat. He has left this gurateeing business for your Dai.

Regards

[moomin052]

you people are so much gone in your hatred that even if allah himself proved something to you, you would question him to quote quran or hadees.tell me do you claim to understand every word of the quran majid and how many hadees and farmans of the quran do follow

[S. Insaf]

Put it this way:
You people are so much gone in your Sayedna-worshipping that even if Allah himself proved something to you, you will still follow whatever Sayedna says.
Doest it sounds realistic now?

[tahir]

Originally posted by moomin052:
tell me do you claim to understand every word of the quran majid

And do you understand ANY word of quran ? Though the Sayedna claims to be hafiz, he refuses to discuss.

[accountability]

mumin 52

please answer a simple question, are all beings mortal, if the answer is yes, then syedna is also mortal, he cannot and will not live for ever, now if there is to be another dai, does any of his sons fulfil the qualification of dai, if you can tell me what is the qualification of shz qaid joher bhai saheb, shz muffadal bhs, and all others. also tell me in syedna's family one highly educated (who has a phd in history, religion, or any other faculty).

[moomin052]

insaaf we do not worship out syedna but we follow him and obey him, that is something which bugs you progs so you bring all this allah and quran and hadees to justify yourself,

[Aleem]

Originally posted by moomin052:
insaaf we do not worship out syedna but we follow him and obey him, that is something which bugs you progs so you bring all this allah and quran and hadees to justify yourself,

moomin052,

You say "...all this allah and quran..." ?????

Of course - this is Islam. Islam has come directlyfrom Allah's word in the Quran.

Do you mean to say that your Syedna's words are more important than what Allah has guided us directly in the Quran?

I request you to please explain yourself?

[moomin052]

how do know that islam and quran have come from allah. were you there 1400 years ago and please do not reply by quoting hadees or things which are not with proof

[Aleem]

Moomin052,

Originally posted by moomin052:
how do know that islam and quran have come from allah. were you there 1400 years ago and please do not reply by quoting hadees or things which are not with proof

I am not clear as to what you are trying to say and why you are doubting that Islam and Quran came from Allah?

If Islam and Quran did not originate from Allah - then who? The Syedna?

[moomin052]

thats the question i asked you that please tell me how do you know that quran came from allah

[Aleem]

Moomin052,

I really don't like playing back and forth with because you have a tendency to dwell on issues akin to a little child.

I am not a learned scholar and never claimed to be so I cant spit out historical cchurnings. But to answer your question of how I know how Islam & Koran are originated from Allah - all the proof I need comes from my faith in accepting Allah's will.

Now what about you?

[Zeal]

Salaam everybody , I am a new member here .

[Zeal]

M52,
If you are doubtful about the Quran being the Allah's word , then I would say you better go back to your basics.
Check out if your parents/family around are intact or they are also doubtful.
Thats the biggest and foremost belief any muslim needs to have without which it hardly matters that you are a dawoodi bohra or reformist bohra or any damn ....

[moomin052]

aleem you said what i wanted to hear that you follow your faith that al quran is allahs is word,indeed it is but in the same context why dont want us to have the same faith in our moula that he is allahs dai and are demanding proof.it is our faith so if you do not believe its okay but do not abuse or demean those who do

[Aleem]

Moomin052,

Originally posted by moomin052:
aleem you said what i wanted to hear that you follow your faith that al quran is allahs is word,indeed it is but in the same context why dont want us to have the same faith in our moula that he is allahs dai and are demanding proof.it is our faith so if you do not believe its okay but do not abuse or demean those who do

Going back to the original standpoint (and mission of reformists I suppose) - I am not arguing the office of the dai is invalid - However I disagree when you say he is "Allah's Dai" as that implies he has some sort of divinely inspired power. The crux of the matter is that the dai is not infalliable, and has not lived up to his responsibility of managing the community responsibly. The current practices and preaches of him and the khotar - who he is directly responsible for - are not in consistence with what I (and many) beleive is the true spirit of Islam.

Therefore, he needs to be held accountable rather than blindly leading our community astray.

[porus]

Is Sayedna Allah’s Dai?

Can any one recall when Kothar promoted Sayedna to be Allah’s Dai?

In Fatimid Orthodoxy, the Dai, who is the head of Dawat-e-Hadiya, is nominated by Imam. However Allah’s Dai is chosen by Allah Himself.

Kothar, of course, digs deep in the Quran to justify that Sayedna is Allah’s Dai. And Kothar finds some tenuous links.

In Surat Al-Ahqaf (46:32), Quran states:

“Those who do not heed Allah’s Dai will not find refuge on this earth, nor can they find protectors other than Him (Allah). They are clearly in error.â€

[Zeal]

moomin52,
You seem to be totally confused .
First you wrote #
thats the question i asked you that please tell me how do you know that quran came from allah

and then you wrote #
aleem you said what i wanted to hear that you follow your faith that al quran is allahs is word,indeed it is

are you sure what you are talking abt?

[porus]

Bohra interpretation of Surat Al-Ahqaf, ayat 32 (46:32),

“Those who do not heed Sayedna (Allah’s Dai) will not find refuge on this earth, nor can they find protectors other than him (Sayedna). They are clearly in error.â€

[moomin052]

we are back at the same thing ,that you are allowed your faith but the dawoodi bohras are not they have to prove and prove to snakesand scorpions,please if you you do not believe leave no one is holding you back.leave us to our moula and our beliefs

[Aleem]

Brother Moomin052,

Originally posted by moomin052:
we are back at the same thing ,that you are allowed your faith but the dawoodi bohras are not they have to prove and prove to snakesand scorpions,please if you you do not believe leave no one is holding you back.leave us to our moula and our beliefs

You're argument just doesnt make sense. You are now saying things which are totally irrelevant to our initial discourse about Koran & Alllah.

You have even avoided the topics that the Dai is a not an infalliable, that he is also prone to human error and human sins and has mismanaged his administration. Do you think he has not? What can you say to convince me otherwise?

Please note I am not here to make a mockery of what you say. I am just trying to engage in constructive debate so we can all interact and inshallah learn something.

I look forward to your reply

Salaams

[moomin052]

why do you want me to convince you on my faith,can you convince me on yours. i asked you a simple question before about the quran and you could not answer

[Aleem]

Brother Moomin052,

Salaams to you once again

Originally posted by moomin052:
why do you want me to convince you on my faith,can you convince me on yours. i asked you a simple question before about the quran and you could not answer

You are getting a little belligerent now arent you?

Infact, I did answer your question. I told you that my beleif the koran and islam came from allah was a result of my faith and beleif that Allah is Karim.

If you think I have not answer that question correctly, then please do enlighten me and tell us what is the real answer?

[Zeal]

Bro Aleem ,
Isnt it strange that M052 wants us to clarify our faith in Quran being Allah's word and on the other hand bohras and so M052 agree to the saying that maula is quran-e-natik !!

If some muslim/bohra challenges about quran I am of the opinion he shud be just left to be staled in his rotten beliefs and shirk, coz he can change only if Allah subhanho wishes to give hidayat to him.

[Aleem]

Zeal,

You're on the ball mate!

Whatever happens to M52, I suppose, is upto Allah.
(although M52 himself may disagree and attribute it all to the syedna)