Few Questions!!

[truebohra]

1) Why do lakhs & lakhs of mumineen attends waz ,majlis of Aaqa Moula (TUS). is Fear or Love?
2) Why do Lakhs and Lakhs of Mumineen Die for the deedar of thier beloved moula. is it fear or love?
3) Why do Lakhs and lakhs of mumineen gives lakhs & crores of rupees in Wajebat , najwa. Is it fear or love?
3)Why are Progressives still struggling to get hold of majoritys attention?
4)Why do progressives hate their current Dai? Whom they claim that is rightly on the Dawats seat. Its thier official claim?
5)Why do they abuse the current Dai. Astakferullah. Dai is the bedrock of Dawoodi Bohra belief system. Y this hypocrisy?
6)Y do u see tears of happiness on lakks of mumineens eyes on the deedar of thier beloved moula?
I hope progressives can give honest answers on this.

[Gulf]

Progressives and RSS.. bith are same. still struggling to get hold of majority's attention by spreading hatred.. but faiiling constantly...

truborha,
please say "Astaghferullah" instead of "Astakferullah"

[Safiuddin]

TB,

These questions have been repeatedly answered on this forum. Please read the archives and learn. Everything you're bringing up is just a rehashing of what has been discussed already here.

[truebohra]

Y are Progressives hell bent of hurting the mumineens sentiment and belief. Y are they trying to create more and more rift within the community and failing every time? Y cant Mr Insaf & Engineer stop abusing the Dai? When will they overcome thier Ego and sense of false righteousness?

[SBM]

TB quote

"Y are they trying to create more and more rift within the community "
so you agree that progressive movement has some effects on the community
Again the beauty is in the eyes of beholder what you call a "RIFT". I call it "AWAKENING"

[Danish]

Originally posted by omabharti:
TB quote

"Y are they trying to create more and more rift within the community "
so you agree that progressive movement has some effects on the community
Again the beauty is in the eyes of beholder what you call a "RIFT". I call it "AWAKENING"

Exactly! Some food for thought.

[truebohra]

Umabharti,
Please read the sentence carefully. I have not said that proggys have actually created the rift. I am asking Y are u trying to create rift.

[Gulf]

So, come to the topic..

Who
is
going
to
answer
all
the
questiones
in
good
manner
.
.
.
.
welcome :p

[SBM]

TB Quote
"I have not said that proggys have actually created the rift. I am asking Y are u trying to create rift."
Well because we live in present and we do create and the creation is the initial stage of CHANGE in a society and inshallah you would be able to say that we created "AWAKENING=RIFT"

[truebohra]

Originally posted by omabharti:
TB Quote
"I have not said that proggys have actually created the rift. I am asking Y are u trying to create rift."
Well because we live in present and we do create and the creation is the initial stage of CHANGE in a society and inshallah you would be able to say that we created "AWAKENING=RIFT"

u are living in this "present" for last hundred of years. Ur present is as it was yesterday or hundred of years back. Keep living in this "present"

[truebohra]

uma,
reead this
"Y are they trying to create more and more rift within the community and failing every time "

[SBM]

TB quote
"Y are they trying to create more and more rift within the community and failing every time "
TB
your mere presence on this forum and posting is a sign of win and not FAILING
TB, Piggy, gulpie,jayanti and so on..... coming here and expressing yourself freely and defending TAHERI brutality and corruptive regime is a sign that the PROGRESSIVE movement must be having some kind of positive effects on the community at large. Remember there are more FIRQAS in Bohras whether it is Alavi or others, they were the RIFTS in the KOTHARI FAMILY and more to come once 51 is history.

[Danish]

What's really astounding to note that not only the progressives are making efforts and gradually impacting the mainstream corrupted regime, but has positively and certainly touched the nerves out of '51er' (Burhanuddin ~ the fake "ilah" and a perverse aali-shaan Mullah) for crying out loud in retaliation.

[makberi]

Originally posted by truebohra:
1) Why do lakhs & lakhs of mumineen attends waz ,majlis of Aaqa Moula (TUS). is Fear or Love?
2) Why do Lakhs and Lakhs of Mumineen Die for the deedar of thier beloved moula. is it fear or love?
3) Why do Lakhs and lakhs of mumineen gives lakhs & crores of rupees in Wajebat , najwa. Is it fear or love?
3)Why are Progressives still struggling to get hold of majoritys attention?
4)Why do progressives hate their current Dai? Whom they claim that is rightly on the Dawats seat. Its thier official claim?
5)Why do they abuse the current Dai. Astakferullah. Dai is the bedrock of Dawoodi Bohra belief system. Y this hypocrisy?
6)Y do u see tears of happiness on lakks of mumineens eyes on the deedar of thier beloved moula?
I hope progressives can give honest answers on this.

the answer to ur questions

1. if we are to go by numbers then a much larger number attend funtions organised by the pope....then is the pope on the righteous path!!!!
2. Die!!!...thts a big word...just yest more than a 100 people literally died when they went to visit the naina devi temple...r they on the righteous path!!!!
3. if lakhs of ppl r givin crores of rupees u get only rs100 per person...lol...jokes apart..there are a good no of ppl who pay out of faith..a good number also pay cuz they r "forced"....i wont get into y and how they r "forced"....thats another topic altogehter.....
4. even after 400 yrs of reformation and renaissance...catholic believers are much larger in number than the protestants...i can give u the rhetorical response that there were very few ppl on the side of Imam Husain when he went to karbala...again the point is shud v go by numbers to determine who is on the righteous path....
5.truebohra ppl have responded to this question many times......i cannot speak for everyone on this board nor am i a "reformist" to speak for them but wat i dont like abt the present incumbent is that i hve nothin to look upto with him....
6. dai is not the bedrock of the dawoodi bohra faith ...its faith in Allah, his rasool and the progeny of Prophet mohammed.....u dont have to have "faith" in the dai...he only represents the Imam....
7. ohhhh pls spare me the rhetoric!!!!!!

[truebohra]

Originally posted by makberi:

Originally posted by truebohra:
1) Why do lakhs & lakhs of mumineen attends waz ,majlis of Aaqa Moula (TUS). is Fear or Love?
2) Why do Lakhs and Lakhs of Mumineen Die for the deedar of thier beloved moula. is it fear or love?
3) Why do Lakhs and lakhs of mumineen gives lakhs & crores of rupees in Wajebat , najwa. Is it fear or love?
3)Why are Progressives still struggling to get hold of majoritys attention?
4)Why do progressives hate their current Dai? Whom they claim that is rightly on the Dawats seat. Its thier official claim?
5)Why do they abuse the current Dai. Astakferullah. Dai is the bedrock of Dawoodi Bohra belief system. Y this hypocrisy?
6)Y do u see tears of happiness on lakks of mumineens eyes on the deedar of thier beloved moula?
I hope progressives can give honest answers on this.

the answer to ur questions

1. if we are to go by numbers then a much larger number attend funtions organised by the pope....then is the pope on the righteous path!!!!
2. Die!!!...thts a big word...just yest more than a 100 people literally died when they went to visit the naina devi temple...r they on the righteous path!!!!
3. if lakhs of ppl r givin crores of rupees u get only rs100 per person...lol...jokes apart..there are a good no of ppl who pay out of faith..a good number also pay cuz they r "forced"....i wont get into y and how they r "forced"....thats another topic altogehter.....
4. even after 400 yrs of reformation and renaissance...catholic believers are much larger in number than the protestants...i can give u the rhetorical response that there were very few ppl on the side of Imam Husain when he went to karbala...again the point is shud v go by numbers to determine who is on the righteous path....
5.truebohra ppl have responded to this question many times......i cannot speak for everyone on this board nor am i a "reformist" to speak for them but wat i dont like abt the present incumbent is that i hve nothin to look upto with him....
6. dai is not the bedrock of the dawoodi bohra faith ...its faith in Allah, his rasool and the progeny of Prophet mohammed.....u dont have to have "faith" in the dai...he only represents the Imam....
7. ohhhh pls spare me the rhetoric!!!!!!

Please dont talk out of context. The point here is majority doesnt care a damn about your reformist movment. Its not any fear or force but its the love for allah and his Duat-e-Mutlaqin. Yes you are right there are some who are forcefully within the community. One example i can cite is u. You are pure hypocrites. Believe me people like you are negligible in numbers and would remain so. Its the faith of lakhs of munineen in the current Dai (tus) and you are playing with the sentiments of the people. And about what is right and wrong who are u to decide? and y should i or any other mumineen subscribe to your or reformist view.
Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin saheb (tus) is our dai by rigth nas and i believe this and lakshs of mumineen also. Can you deny this truth?

[makberi]

i dont understand how the responses were out of context....unless u were looking for an answer which agrees with ur point of view....i m sorry to disapoint u on that front......

i agree with u...i am a hyprocrite...and i hate myself for it ...but in any debate i dont follow the numbers....i make a judgements based on the arguments...if u have an argument for the present system apart from the numbers pls put it forward
i will not decide wat right or wrong? only Allah can do that..n i will leave it to Him....

i dunt care whether the Syedna is the dai by nus or not...he doesnt really inspire me as a leader ...period

[truebohra]

makberi,
Can you explain if the current system is wrong, y love of mumineens for the Dai (tus). Forget about numbers it doesnt matter whether we are 10 or lakhs or crores. Does it make any diffrence in the heart of a mumineen?

[makberi]

truebohra,

let me get ur argument straight....ur telling me cuz sme xyz mumineen love aqa moula a lot...so i shud do the same???....wat does it matter wat others do???....jus give me a reason ...a logical one y i shud "love" maula......dont tell me wat others r doin...

if ur sayin that how come despite so much wrong doing in the system there is so much "love" for maula.....i think u live in India....speak to sme of the followers of the various sadhus/sants/mahatmas...they are all over the country and much larger in number.....u will c no difference between the "lovers" of syedna and them.....n that is despite the fact that they have been skinning the public for ages!!!!!

[truebohra]

mkberi,
i am not asking you to love moula its ur choice. Dont compare self apointed sadhus with Dai. Dai is a recognized position in dawoodi bohra belief. Its a tradition that is been going on for last 900 years.If you dont recognise the current Dai y do u want yourself to be called a dawoodi bohra. If you want to have this type nonsensical comparison. y can compare anybody with any one. Can u tell me y u consider prophet mohammed(pbuh) as the nabi and not any other sadhu or sant from that time.

[makberi]

with all humility i have tried to understand the teachings of Islam.....and truly dont think that mankind cud have had a better Prophet than Muhammed based on his akhlak.....
Infalliability of the dai was never really a part of the dawoodi bohra "tradition"...the first daim valayat dint also extend to him either....in any case its a sort of contradiction...to love someone as a part of "tradition".....
in any case if u have any other logical arguments we shall continue this debate or we will leave it at that

[truebohra]

I also have observed and been part of the dawoodi community since birth. I personally have never come across any aggrieved or harassed person who is been harrased by the system. I am not lying. I have seen minor arguments for vajebat & sabeel. But its not so serious that it will change my mind against the system. Its a personal expreince. One of my room mates in Saudi has been given exit visa from saudi by his company. He was on labor visa and had salary of 1500 riyal. In that period his wife visited Makkah for umrah. He joined his wife in makkah and they were staying in rubaat. My room mate narrated this incident to the Bhaisaheb (incharge ) of rubaat. Bhaisaheb waived the entire amount of his stay in Makkah and offered him to stay there till his wife is there in makkah. I can cite lot of incident like this personally experienced by me. And as far as love for Allah,nabi imam & his dai. Its unconditinol.

[jayanti]

Where is Insaf or Asgar? I dont see him. Did he is going to respone on this topic.I like to hear frm these two guys.

[Smart]

@truebohra

Your original contention is based on the fact that the followers or Syedna are the majority and the progressives are a minority, so the followers of the Syedna are on the path of truth?

Does this imply that you are basing your argument that numbers decide the truth?

Does this apply always and in all situations?

If the fallacy in your argument is shown, are you willing to accept that you are wrong in your beliefs?

[Smart]

@truebohra

If you are honest, you will answer my questions in the last post truthfully.

Now answer these questions honestly.
1. Was Nuh nabi and his family in the majority when Allah saved him from the floods?
2. Was Musa nabi in the majority, when Allah send the plagues to Egypt?
3. Was Isa nabi in the majority, when he was impaled?
4. Was Rasulallah in the majority when he fought the first war?
5. Was Ali ibne Abi Talib in the majority?
6. Was Imam Husain in the majority in karbala?
7. Are bohras in the majority in the world today? The world's population is 6 billion and bohras are about 1.2 million, i.e. 0.02% of the world's population.

Truth and Numbers are not related. So basing your argument on the fact that orthodox(fanatic) bohras are a majority and so on the path of truth is a fallacy that is easily demolished.

So argue from facts, argue from principles and argue from logic. Ideas like yours can convince only those who don't want to think.

[Gulf]

In previous era we were not educated at all, and we were following Islam in hindu way + indian tradition.

In present time we are educated good enough but, this applies to new generation only those are few in %age among entire comunity. It means, step by step we are going to meet arabic tradition which Mohammamed(SAW) and his family was following... present arabs are... that what Aqa moula wants from us... Insha'allah.. time will prove it.

[Gulf]

I used to used special language for you guys

[truebohra]

My Point is not to prove our majority or prove right or wrong by majority. My point is why are you playng with the faith & sentiments of bohras. Event if we are in minority it doesnt make any diffrence. Dai will remain haq in absence of Imam. Whether u like or not?

[East Africawalla]

1) Why do lakhs & lakhs of mumineen attends waz ,majlis of Aaqa Moula (TUS). is Fear or Love?
2) Why do Lakhs and Lakhs of Mumineen Die for the deedar of thier beloved moula. is it fear or love?
3) Why do Lakhs and lakhs of mumineen gives lakhs & crores of rupees in Wajebat , najwa. Is it fear or love?
3)Why are Progressives still struggling to get hold of majoritys attention?
4)Why do progressives hate their current Dai? Whom they claim that is rightly on the Dawats seat. Its thier official claim?
5)Why do they abuse the current Dai. Astakferullah. Dai is the bedrock of Dawoodi Bohra belief system. Y this hypocrisy?
6)Y do u see tears of happiness on lakks of mumineens eyes on the deedar of thier beloved moula?
I hope progressives can give honest answers on this.

This is the question I have asking for some time, why ? why? why?

Do you think the majority of bohras are under a trance ~( thats your view) or its just people's belief is strong?

[jayanti]

Where is Asgar N Insaf

[Safiuddin]

In previous era we were not educated at all, and we were following Islam in hindu way + indian tradition

And based on the teachings of your Bhagwaan and your picture, grave, hands, feet, etc. worship, you're all still following Islam (if your cult can be called that) in the same way. Let's see, compulsory sajdaa, grave worship, picture worship, aarti of TUs and family and distribution of the sweets.... . .hmmmmm.

I think all the Taheris should adopt Hindu names.

Gulf = Gangika, or how about Gangamata? or gandharvavidya?
Burhanuddin = Bhadrang or Bajrangbali
Badruddin = Basanti Laal
Mohiyuddin = Mahabala
Shahabuddin = Sushil (I think NOT!)
Vajihuddin = Vanara
Saifuddin = Sitadevi