I would like to perform Hajj one day - Inshallah
Do progressive/ reformist bohras make arrangements for groups and if so how can I contact them?
Progressives at Hajj
Re: Progressives at Hajj
I read all of your arguments. its so suprising these mudais when comes to mowla they refer to imam hussein's sacrifice, brain washing, different ways to claim as good muslims. If you believe imam hussein was the true imam then why dont you believe there is imam present. One of you accuses dai transfers power son after son to stay in power, so did from mowlana ali naas to his son imam hussain to imam hussein and the rest of the imam. you think that was also a personaly motive?.....During prophet times there were close family member who despised prophet muhamed saw like lain abubakar and mawya lanaat on these lains, i see the similar at present you guys who claim to be bohra but decieve the dai. i think Zia is right, noone forced you to follow the dai if you dont belive in him, but criticizing is another thing that show a clear defiance and hate towards the true vicegerent of imam.
If you doubt the dai is the vicegerent of imam, then why do you belive in mowlana ali in the first case. There is no writted statement in Quran about mowlana ali was the true khalifaa yet we as shia in our heart know it. a dawwodi bohra with so much devotion and obidience as a beloved father to burhanudin mowla is not due to brain washing as you most muddais think, because your minds are rusted with the bullshit of nifaki. We are blessed to have a mowla who has inspired us to the true path of islam in such a mordenity where the path of islam has been so much misunderstood.
I am a moderate bohri but there is no doubt in my mind Aqua mowla is the true dai of imam. I dont belive because i have been brain washed. i believe because of his noble personality, the respect he has gained in the world with both political and religious leaders inspite of your malignant and jelousy.look the community has flourished under his guidance, this is the dai who in every moment prays to allah for his community, for every mumeen any part of the world, whether poor or rich. you guys have a mudai leader who can do so much for you?.... never you always will be the lost in the darkness just like the jews wandering for 40 yrs for the promise lands.
If you doubt the dai is the vicegerent of imam, then why do you belive in mowlana ali in the first case. There is no writted statement in Quran about mowlana ali was the true khalifaa yet we as shia in our heart know it. a dawwodi bohra with so much devotion and obidience as a beloved father to burhanudin mowla is not due to brain washing as you most muddais think, because your minds are rusted with the bullshit of nifaki. We are blessed to have a mowla who has inspired us to the true path of islam in such a mordenity where the path of islam has been so much misunderstood.
I am a moderate bohri but there is no doubt in my mind Aqua mowla is the true dai of imam. I dont belive because i have been brain washed. i believe because of his noble personality, the respect he has gained in the world with both political and religious leaders inspite of your malignant and jelousy.look the community has flourished under his guidance, this is the dai who in every moment prays to allah for his community, for every mumeen any part of the world, whether poor or rich. you guys have a mudai leader who can do so much for you?.... never you always will be the lost in the darkness just like the jews wandering for 40 yrs for the promise lands.
Re: Progressives at Hajj
Brother Me
First of all this is not the answer of Mr spagetthi's Question.
whether poor or rich. you guys have a mudai leader who can do so much for you?
I agree with you when it comes to Dua he is doing this for every one poor or rich but its really sad to notice that he visits only Rich people for Ziyafat.Infact poor Bohris are supposed to pay Vaajebaat forcibly. Collection of Zakat is for them but unfortunately they have to pay it rather than getting it.
May god Help us.
First of all this is not the answer of Mr spagetthi's Question.
whether poor or rich. you guys have a mudai leader who can do so much for you?
I agree with you when it comes to Dua he is doing this for every one poor or rich but its really sad to notice that he visits only Rich people for Ziyafat.Infact poor Bohris are supposed to pay Vaajebaat forcibly. Collection of Zakat is for them but unfortunately they have to pay it rather than getting it.
May god Help us.
Re: Progressives at Hajj
this is in response to BB
Ziyafat is a personal choice, nobody is forced, people do willingly because of love and respect we have to our mowla, unlike your leaders. what do you say when aqua mowla stays up late night to hear the problems of the poor. Even a small querry such as the name of a baby is answered to the most serious one. at this age he has never forsaken us whether poor or rich. It is amazing to see such a leader, with the noble deeds, guiding a community with so much respect, sticking to the rich islamic values, now tell me what things we do that is unislamic, during the prophet time he did lot of good things to the people and yet some opposed the wars that he did, that didnt make him a bad leader. Dont you think this is the reflection of a dai from the true imam. Aqua mowla has done so much to prosper the community, its due his hassanat we have prospered. you ask a commoner bohri, if the poors were ignored then why do we love so much our mowla, but when comes to paying zakaat, or islamic dues these mudais are the first to criticize. the criticism is soly based on jelosy, hypocracy, and malignant you have in your hearts. this is just because the lack of power you have in the scoeity inspite of having huge bank balances because you cant have your words inspite of your money and power.let me remind you the religion and true dynasty of allah will never bend to anyone, it is you who will.
Our love as a beloved father has grown and will keep on growing for doing so much to us. Not forgeting even during ziyaafaat, problems are addressed to help the poor. it is the mudais ploy to demean the image of dai, the fact is that you guys have lost badly. the community has strengthened and prospered.you are fighting with your hands in the air. may allah punish you severily for denying the true existence of imam. long live mowla burhanudin.
Ziyafat is a personal choice, nobody is forced, people do willingly because of love and respect we have to our mowla, unlike your leaders. what do you say when aqua mowla stays up late night to hear the problems of the poor. Even a small querry such as the name of a baby is answered to the most serious one. at this age he has never forsaken us whether poor or rich. It is amazing to see such a leader, with the noble deeds, guiding a community with so much respect, sticking to the rich islamic values, now tell me what things we do that is unislamic, during the prophet time he did lot of good things to the people and yet some opposed the wars that he did, that didnt make him a bad leader. Dont you think this is the reflection of a dai from the true imam. Aqua mowla has done so much to prosper the community, its due his hassanat we have prospered. you ask a commoner bohri, if the poors were ignored then why do we love so much our mowla, but when comes to paying zakaat, or islamic dues these mudais are the first to criticize. the criticism is soly based on jelosy, hypocracy, and malignant you have in your hearts. this is just because the lack of power you have in the scoeity inspite of having huge bank balances because you cant have your words inspite of your money and power.let me remind you the religion and true dynasty of allah will never bend to anyone, it is you who will.
Our love as a beloved father has grown and will keep on growing for doing so much to us. Not forgeting even during ziyaafaat, problems are addressed to help the poor. it is the mudais ploy to demean the image of dai, the fact is that you guys have lost badly. the community has strengthened and prospered.you are fighting with your hands in the air. may allah punish you severily for denying the true existence of imam. long live mowla burhanudin.
Re: Progressives at Hajj
Br. Me,
It is incorrect for you to brand members of this forum as 'mudai' and 'dushmans' of the commnunity.
As members of a community, we at least have the right to question the way things are functioning in the community and bring up and discuss issues that we might feel are wrong. Also if you see a majority of the posts, they are to do with the social aspects of the community and much less the religous aspects.
Further, you are incorrect in thinking that there is any 'leader' as such. I, like many others here, found this board while surfing the internet and I feel that it is one of the places where we can discuss issues related with our community openly and without fear of social and religous censure.
Br. Me, I would very much like not to hide behind the mask of an alias on an internet forum and would like to have a free open dialogue with our religious heads, but the very fact that this is what I have to do shows what is wrong with our community.
Lastly, apologies to Spaghetti as this has nothing to do with the first post!
It is incorrect for you to brand members of this forum as 'mudai' and 'dushmans' of the commnunity.
As members of a community, we at least have the right to question the way things are functioning in the community and bring up and discuss issues that we might feel are wrong. Also if you see a majority of the posts, they are to do with the social aspects of the community and much less the religous aspects.
Further, you are incorrect in thinking that there is any 'leader' as such. I, like many others here, found this board while surfing the internet and I feel that it is one of the places where we can discuss issues related with our community openly and without fear of social and religous censure.
Br. Me, I would very much like not to hide behind the mask of an alias on an internet forum and would like to have a free open dialogue with our religious heads, but the very fact that this is what I have to do shows what is wrong with our community.
Lastly, apologies to Spaghetti as this has nothing to do with the first post!
Re: Progressives at Hajj
Spaghetti:
At the last 2004 Progressive's International Conference in U.K., the subject of Hajj for Progressives was discussed and I believe a Committee was also formed.
Perhaps one of UK participants to the Conference can shed some light please! Thanks
At the last 2004 Progressive's International Conference in U.K., the subject of Hajj for Progressives was discussed and I believe a Committee was also formed.
Perhaps one of UK participants to the Conference can shed some light please! Thanks
Re: Progressives at Hajj
Brother Me opined
Ziyafat is a personal choice, nobody is forced, people do willingly because of love and respect we have to our mowla, unlike your leaders. what do you say when aqua mowla stays up late night to hear the problems of the poor.
I agree with you Ziyafat is personal choice and believe me there are thousands of Poor willing to have "Kadam" of Aqua Mola at thier house but problem is they ask them to have atleast 100,000$ to get this opportunity.Brother how can a poor afford to have that much of money to fullfil his personal choice .
Even a small querry such as the name of a baby is answered to the most serious one. at this age he has never forsaken us whether poor or rich.
Believe me this also costs you.You get to bribe from Mulla to Shehzada to reach Auqa Mola.
It is amazing to see such a leader, with the noble deeds, guiding a community with so much respect, sticking to the rich islamic values
I agree with you aqua Moula is doing a great job at this age but there are many other people enjoying in him name.
now tell me what things we do that is unislamic .
1)concept of Priest itself is unislamic
2)bowing down to any one is unislamic
3)praying laanat on any muslim brother is unislamic
4)wadawa ni rasm is unislamic
5)praying 3 times a day instead of 5 times is unislamic
6)taking zakaat as a lumpsum and then incresing it every year is unislamic
7)not allowing to understand Quran is unislamic
there are many more issues which i personally feel are unislamic and i am not able to clear these doubts from any of our bohri mullah
calling mudai and givig bad amens like" may allah punish you severily" shows how backward our society is.You will notice that all of our orthodox brothers end up with bad words or curses.
Ziyafat is a personal choice, nobody is forced, people do willingly because of love and respect we have to our mowla, unlike your leaders. what do you say when aqua mowla stays up late night to hear the problems of the poor.
I agree with you Ziyafat is personal choice and believe me there are thousands of Poor willing to have "Kadam" of Aqua Mola at thier house but problem is they ask them to have atleast 100,000$ to get this opportunity.Brother how can a poor afford to have that much of money to fullfil his personal choice .
Even a small querry such as the name of a baby is answered to the most serious one. at this age he has never forsaken us whether poor or rich.
Believe me this also costs you.You get to bribe from Mulla to Shehzada to reach Auqa Mola.
It is amazing to see such a leader, with the noble deeds, guiding a community with so much respect, sticking to the rich islamic values
I agree with you aqua Moula is doing a great job at this age but there are many other people enjoying in him name.
now tell me what things we do that is unislamic .
1)concept of Priest itself is unislamic
2)bowing down to any one is unislamic
3)praying laanat on any muslim brother is unislamic
4)wadawa ni rasm is unislamic
5)praying 3 times a day instead of 5 times is unislamic
6)taking zakaat as a lumpsum and then incresing it every year is unislamic
7)not allowing to understand Quran is unislamic
there are many more issues which i personally feel are unislamic and i am not able to clear these doubts from any of our bohri mullah
calling mudai and givig bad amens like" may allah punish you severily" shows how backward our society is.You will notice that all of our orthodox brothers end up with bad words or curses.
Re: Progressives at Hajj
DEAR BB
I DO AGREE 100% AND MAY ALLAH REWARD YOU.
WE NEED TO QUESTION THESE MULLAH BRING PROOF FORM AUTENTIC SOURCES RATHER THAN AQA MOWLA SAYS ETC.,
ONCE AGAIN MAY ALLAH REWARD YOU. AND MAY ALLAH PUT US IN THE CORRECT PATH THAN DEVIATED PATH SHOWN BY AQA MOWLA WHICH WILL LEAD US TO HELL FIRE. MAY ALL PROTECT ALL OF US FROM HELL FIRE AND PROTECT US FROM ENEMIES OF ISLAM.
I DO AGREE 100% AND MAY ALLAH REWARD YOU.
WE NEED TO QUESTION THESE MULLAH BRING PROOF FORM AUTENTIC SOURCES RATHER THAN AQA MOWLA SAYS ETC.,
ONCE AGAIN MAY ALLAH REWARD YOU. AND MAY ALLAH PUT US IN THE CORRECT PATH THAN DEVIATED PATH SHOWN BY AQA MOWLA WHICH WILL LEAD US TO HELL FIRE. MAY ALL PROTECT ALL OF US FROM HELL FIRE AND PROTECT US FROM ENEMIES OF ISLAM.
Re: Progressives at Hajj
Does anyone know anything about Hajj and what its implications are? I am talking about a man-made stone structure, the biggest Satanic Idol, whom millions (Arabs and their derivatives) worship.
Check out www.aididsafar.com
Check out www.aididsafar.com
Re: Progressives at Hajj
Mr. ME
No matter what u say ........ you are wrong and ur Dai is wrong. he is just power and moeny hurgry and u will not understand this as u donot have sight, u donot have wisdom and courage.
You talk of days of Prophet.... what do u know of those days. there are a millions of things.
And lets go back a little.......
When Mohammad came with Islam, he was not accepted and he had to face lot of resistance, very few replied ..... Prophet had wisdom and those who replied had faith........ my point here is: DO NOT doubt who dare to DIFFER, they may be right, or they may even have a point .... if we take ur theory then no one should look for something else and should not quest for more knowldge and truth........ Prophet challanged the religion of that time, if we accept ur theory he should not have (as u r telling us not to question anything of Dai....!!!)
DO not compare Silsela-e-Imamat with Daism. Dais are not to be father-to-son. Taher and Burhan has made it this way - now either Khozema will be crowned or Muffadal or Qaud Johar ....... and what is this crap of Bait-e-Zaini. There were only Ahle-Bait, thats it. What do u say of tons of Bhai Sahibs we have ........ Shahzada and alike. They always pray is First Saaf. Every big or smal Shahzada is sacred and we kiss his hands and feet - WHY on EARTH......????????? Bohras have CASTE SYSTEM .......... even thought of that........
ME and Trance and alike WAKE up.......
No matter what u say ........ you are wrong and ur Dai is wrong. he is just power and moeny hurgry and u will not understand this as u donot have sight, u donot have wisdom and courage.
You talk of days of Prophet.... what do u know of those days. there are a millions of things.
And lets go back a little.......
When Mohammad came with Islam, he was not accepted and he had to face lot of resistance, very few replied ..... Prophet had wisdom and those who replied had faith........ my point here is: DO NOT doubt who dare to DIFFER, they may be right, or they may even have a point .... if we take ur theory then no one should look for something else and should not quest for more knowldge and truth........ Prophet challanged the religion of that time, if we accept ur theory he should not have (as u r telling us not to question anything of Dai....!!!)
DO not compare Silsela-e-Imamat with Daism. Dais are not to be father-to-son. Taher and Burhan has made it this way - now either Khozema will be crowned or Muffadal or Qaud Johar ....... and what is this crap of Bait-e-Zaini. There were only Ahle-Bait, thats it. What do u say of tons of Bhai Sahibs we have ........ Shahzada and alike. They always pray is First Saaf. Every big or smal Shahzada is sacred and we kiss his hands and feet - WHY on EARTH......????????? Bohras have CASTE SYSTEM .......... even thought of that........
ME and Trance and alike WAKE up.......
Re: Progressives at Hajj
There is a lot of corruption within our System that very few can perhaps understand, or are willing to even try to think about it. This has led to fanatics being born and created every minute; because without them, who is going to pay for the lifestyles being led by those circling around our Dai? Ideally, we should only have to support the Dai, Mazoon & Muquasir. I guess this converts to the President, Vice President and Secretary of State. But what we are forced to support, in the name of religion and faith, is a whole lot of families who are perhaps related to the above, and also connected to the Office Bearers viz. Aayans and Kothars.
Who would not love to get up in the morning just to pray, attend to the family duties, have breakfast, and NEVER bother about going to work? We have been forced to pay, by way of illegal Wajebaat and Sabeel(which is never accounted for, anyways!) for the living of say, about 400 families in India. Look how much money they took out of just ONE Country-Canada!!! $2.6M Dollars within the last 4 Years! By establishing Charities they are milking us all-the People who have to forcibly contribute, AND the Western Countries, because it's very easy to fool the Governments of these Countries.
Why do they keep on sending Aamils to different locations around the World? They have to ensure that funds are collected for those in India and elsewhere!!! Has it ever occurred to anybody that we could have a local person just as qualified as someone from India, who would be able to perform the duties of Nikah, Mayats, Majlis etc. just as well as any Aamil sent from Mumbai? See, they cannot afford to go that way, because then, they'll start loosing all the income, and once that happens, oh my gosh, they'll be forced to work, just like the rest of us!
They cannot afford to have that kind of a system, can they? That is why, we have no elections of Office Bearers, no Accounting Policies, and no Accountability by any Jamaat to the very people who are actually contributing to this massive fund, for them to travel and enjoy, all in the name of faith! What a wonderful set-up isn't it?
Who would not love to get up in the morning just to pray, attend to the family duties, have breakfast, and NEVER bother about going to work? We have been forced to pay, by way of illegal Wajebaat and Sabeel(which is never accounted for, anyways!) for the living of say, about 400 families in India. Look how much money they took out of just ONE Country-Canada!!! $2.6M Dollars within the last 4 Years! By establishing Charities they are milking us all-the People who have to forcibly contribute, AND the Western Countries, because it's very easy to fool the Governments of these Countries.
Why do they keep on sending Aamils to different locations around the World? They have to ensure that funds are collected for those in India and elsewhere!!! Has it ever occurred to anybody that we could have a local person just as qualified as someone from India, who would be able to perform the duties of Nikah, Mayats, Majlis etc. just as well as any Aamil sent from Mumbai? See, they cannot afford to go that way, because then, they'll start loosing all the income, and once that happens, oh my gosh, they'll be forced to work, just like the rest of us!
They cannot afford to have that kind of a system, can they? That is why, we have no elections of Office Bearers, no Accounting Policies, and no Accountability by any Jamaat to the very people who are actually contributing to this massive fund, for them to travel and enjoy, all in the name of faith! What a wonderful set-up isn't it?
Re: Progressives at Hajj
Bohra System is based on Falsehood. Garbage in, garbage out. Agree with Simpleton.
The so called Bait-e-Zaini has LOOTED the FOOLS too much, but fools are still ready to take full up ... theri ***..!!! so who could help them??
Average bohra understands all this but has no courage to stand up, i guess they are having 'fun' and are 'pleased' with what they are 'getting'.
Is there no fool among fools to stop these fools from this foolishness? How can there be such fools?
The so called Bait-e-Zaini has LOOTED the FOOLS too much, but fools are still ready to take full up ... theri ***..!!! so who could help them??
Average bohra understands all this but has no courage to stand up, i guess they are having 'fun' and are 'pleased' with what they are 'getting'.
Is there no fool among fools to stop these fools from this foolishness? How can there be such fools?