Curfew has been imposed in the bohrawadi today morning after some altercations after fajr namaaz at moyyaedpura masjid.
Past few days, the situation was tense between reformist and orthoprax camp. The udaipur ortjhthodox ganf has objected reformists to come to moyyedpura mosque for ramadan prayers. This has erupted into some violent episodes too.
Curfew in Udaipur
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
The Kothar's local mafia boss Amil Mustafa is showing his true colours. Hired goons and thugs from neigbouring towns have attacked reformists going to the Moyyadpura mosque. This mosque is under court control and its use is restricted only during set occasions like namaaz and other pre-appointed functions. For past several months Amil Mustafa has been trying his damnedest to get complete possession of the mosque and the attached jamaatkhana. All his tactics in the past few months of creating an atmosphere of general nuisance didn't work so now he is resorting to violence against reformists in the holy month and inside the holy place. Alas, this is not the first time it has happened. Reformist men and women have been attacked before inside the mosque and with the help of the police.
This time too it is suspected that the Amil Mustafa has bribed the administration to turn a blind eye while his goons attack innocent people. Several reformists have been arrested, and we know what's going to happen next. Trumped-up charges will laid against them and it will results in years of legal wranglings, further harassment and hemorrhaging of funds of which there's not much to begin with.
The Udaipur reformists are once again under attack, paying the price for standing up to the bully, paying the price for telling the truth and sticking to the truth. We reformists of Udaipur need your help and moral support. If you support and sympathise with the reformist cause then please write/call the local media and administration to register your protest. Every voice will make a difference.
Rajasthan Patrika: Online form.
Dainik Bhaskar: editorbhaskar@bhaskar.com
Udaipur collector : Shekhar Agarwal. Tel: 091-294-2410834
Will provide more contact info as it becomes available.
Thanks for your support.
This time too it is suspected that the Amil Mustafa has bribed the administration to turn a blind eye while his goons attack innocent people. Several reformists have been arrested, and we know what's going to happen next. Trumped-up charges will laid against them and it will results in years of legal wranglings, further harassment and hemorrhaging of funds of which there's not much to begin with.
The Udaipur reformists are once again under attack, paying the price for standing up to the bully, paying the price for telling the truth and sticking to the truth. We reformists of Udaipur need your help and moral support. If you support and sympathise with the reformist cause then please write/call the local media and administration to register your protest. Every voice will make a difference.
Rajasthan Patrika: Online form.
Dainik Bhaskar: editorbhaskar@bhaskar.com
Udaipur collector : Shekhar Agarwal. Tel: 091-294-2410834
Will provide more contact info as it becomes available.
Thanks for your support.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
Dear Humsafar,
Thats a very nice suggestion that every one of us should write to the local media/administartion to show support to our brethern back home in udaipur.
I think we should also post comments or write to editor in the national news agencies or publications which has carried this news and highlight the underlying issues at bigger level. Since this news has reached to national level(almost all news channel airing the news and major networks publishing it online too), why not take advantage and bring out the reformist issue too.
Once again, as a udiapurite and fellow reformist, a humble request to all members on the board to chip in and show support to this cause.
Thats a very nice suggestion that every one of us should write to the local media/administartion to show support to our brethern back home in udaipur.
I think we should also post comments or write to editor in the national news agencies or publications which has carried this news and highlight the underlying issues at bigger level. Since this news has reached to national level(almost all news channel airing the news and major networks publishing it online too), why not take advantage and bring out the reformist issue too.
Once again, as a udiapurite and fellow reformist, a humble request to all members on the board to chip in and show support to this cause.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
ramzam mean dua not fight pls peace only.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
Dear Pro-Pig,
We want peace only, this is the clegy and thier henchmen who started the fight with not allowing reformist to join in prayers.
We want peace only, this is the clegy and thier henchmen who started the fight with not allowing reformist to join in prayers.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
The latest news is that the curfew has been lifted, and both parties have reached a negotiated settlement through the city administration. Both orthodox and reformists have been alloted fixed space in the masjid, and of course nobody will dare stop reformists from entering the masjid.
19 people from each side were arrested. On the reformist side the majority were women - another example of how the reformist women are at the forefront of this struggle and bearing the brunt of orthodox violence. All of them are being released on bail. Things seems to be back to normal, but given the volatile situation and the desperation of the Amil this lull may not last very long. Whatever happens, reformists are committed and determined to fight to the last.
The upcoming conference in Udaipur is going to be very important in the light of recent events. It's focus on reaching out and mending decades old divisions is a good start and let's hope something fruitful will come of it. The orthodox must realise that they have no option but to make peace with us, for reformists are not going to kowtow to the clergy and its dictates. Elsewhere in the world it can make mush of Bohra dignity but not in Udaipur, and not in our lifetime. We have tasted freedom, and it has gone to our head, literally.
Anyways, let's be grateful that the ugly events of the past few days did not take a nastier turn. Thank you all for you support.
Amerge, good to see a fellow-Udaipuri contributing here. We need more of us!!
19 people from each side were arrested. On the reformist side the majority were women - another example of how the reformist women are at the forefront of this struggle and bearing the brunt of orthodox violence. All of them are being released on bail. Things seems to be back to normal, but given the volatile situation and the desperation of the Amil this lull may not last very long. Whatever happens, reformists are committed and determined to fight to the last.
The upcoming conference in Udaipur is going to be very important in the light of recent events. It's focus on reaching out and mending decades old divisions is a good start and let's hope something fruitful will come of it. The orthodox must realise that they have no option but to make peace with us, for reformists are not going to kowtow to the clergy and its dictates. Elsewhere in the world it can make mush of Bohra dignity but not in Udaipur, and not in our lifetime. We have tasted freedom, and it has gone to our head, literally.
Anyways, let's be grateful that the ugly events of the past few days did not take a nastier turn. Thank you all for you support.
Amerge, good to see a fellow-Udaipuri contributing here. We need more of us!!
-
mohammed_truthseeker
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 am
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
This is very sad. My heart goes out for the oppressed. Why are these questions not raised in the local jamaat. I mean Jamaats in other cities might not even know that something like this is hapenning in Udaipur or even if they come to know they will chant laanat without knowing the complete truth.
May God be with the righteous.
Wasalaam.
Mohammed
May God be with the righteous.
Wasalaam.
Mohammed
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
CENTRAL BOARD OF DAWOODI BOHRA COMMUNITY
Silver Star, 602/603, Prabhat Colony, Santacruz East, Mumbai – 400 055
Phone: 26102089 / 26149668 Fax: 26100712
Press Release
The Bohras, Muslims and other right thinking citizens are disturbed by the happenings in the city of Udaipur where area in Bohrawadi is put under Curfew since couple of days, in the holy month of Ramazan.
In Udaipur, Dawoodi Bohras have been divided into two groups, Shabab (Orthodox) and Bohra Youth (Reformists) since 1972, after a mass revolt on the issue of individual and democratic rights of Bohras in secular matters. Two decades of 1970s and 1980s were era of wide-spread harassment and violent attacks on the reformist members of Bohra Youth Bohra. There was bloodshed in the holy places like mosques and Dargahs.
But thereafter the two groups had reconciled in their respective positions and were living peacefully. The fresh atrocities and violent attacks on the Bohra Youth started as soon as a new representative, Amil Mustafa, of Bohra religious establishment arrived in Udaipur. It seams that this man has been sent with a single point program to target members of Bohra Youth, harass them and compel them to hand over the possession of the community’s democratically run properties to the oppressive and exploitative Bohra establishment. Having failed in law courts they now want to seiz the property by force.
In Udaipur the properties of Dawoodi Bohra Community are registered under “Panch Bohras”. It is a fact that has been well-documented and produced as evidence in various court cases. Hence these community’s properties like mosques, Jamatkhanas etc have remained in the hands of Panch Bohras (Bohra reformists) after the mass revolt in 1972. As the orthodox Bohras of Shabab were told that the prayers in these mosques are done without the permission (Raza) of Bohra Sayedna and therefore not valid, they stopped offering payers in these mosques and made separate arrangements in private premises.
Because of reformists’ hold on community’s property, the Udaipur has become a great embarrassment for Bohra head and a challenge to his un-Islamic and unconstitutional claim of ownership / sole-trusteeship of the Bohra community’s properties like mosques. In Islam mosques are dedicated to Allah and any Muslim can offer prayers in mosques. But the Bohra Dai since present Dai’s father’s time has claiming that mosques must be dedicated to him and placed in his absolute ownership. He also claims that if the prayers are not done with his permission (Raza) and lead by persons not appointed by him then such prayers will be invalid and not accepted by Allah.
In fact the father of present Bohra head and 51st Bohra Dai, late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin had invented a pernicious doctrine of “absolute ownership” of everything belonging to his followers. Thus he claimed, in the famous Chandabhoy Gullah case fought in the Bombay High Court between 1917 and 1921 that he is master of body, soul and the properties of his followers. He also claimed their absolute submission in all matters religious as well as secular. This doctrine of absolute-ownership did not exist before him so the late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin could not substantiate his claims under cross examination in the Bombay High Court. Naturally these claims were rejected by the learned Judge Martin of the Bombay High Court.
In 1982 some Shababi (orthodox) Bohras filed a suit claiming the possession of mosques but the court rejected their locus standi as it was their high priest Mohammed Burhanuddin who claimed to ‘own' the mosques and hence his followers could not claim the mosques.
Thus for the first time the Bohra head, Burhanuddin Saheb himself became a party in a court case to seize control of the community’s properties in Udaipur. The Bohra high priest was himself a plaintiff. He had claimed all the Bohra mosques in Udaipur. He had sought an injunction for possession of these mosques pending the final disposal of the case. But High court of Rajasthan rejected his claims. Now the dispute is pending in the Supreme Court.
Since last 12 to 15 years the tension between the orthodox and reformist groups had siezed. They were peacefully co-existing and even intermingling on day to day activities till the new Amil Mustafa arrived in Udaipur. Amil’s hired goons from neigbouring towns have been attacking reformists going to the Moyyadpura mosque. This mosque is under court control and its use is restricted only during set occasions like namaaz and other pre-appointed functions. For past several months Amil Mustafa has been trying his damnedest to get complete possession of the mosque and the attached jamaatkhana. All his tactics in the past few months of creating an atmosphere of general nuisance didn't work so now he is resorting to violence against reformists in the holy month and that too inside the holy place.
It is suspected by the local media persons that this time the Amil Mustafa has bribed the administration to turn a blind eye while Amil’s goons attack innocent people. Several reformists have been deliberately arrested, and we know what's going to happen next. False charges will be laid against reformists Bohras that would result in years of legal wrangling, further harassment waste of time and energy and funds.
We therefore demand that Amil Mustafa be arrested immediately and disposed off from Udaipur to restore peace. If the apprehension of police role in the matter is true then we request the state government to see that the justice is done with reformist Bohras. Imposing of curfew in the holy month of Ramazan has put Muslims in those areas in difficulty which may result in unfeeling against a BJP ruled state.
Asghar Ali Engineer,
(Gen. Secretary)
Silver Star, 602/603, Prabhat Colony, Santacruz East, Mumbai – 400 055
Phone: 26102089 / 26149668 Fax: 26100712
Press Release
The Bohras, Muslims and other right thinking citizens are disturbed by the happenings in the city of Udaipur where area in Bohrawadi is put under Curfew since couple of days, in the holy month of Ramazan.
In Udaipur, Dawoodi Bohras have been divided into two groups, Shabab (Orthodox) and Bohra Youth (Reformists) since 1972, after a mass revolt on the issue of individual and democratic rights of Bohras in secular matters. Two decades of 1970s and 1980s were era of wide-spread harassment and violent attacks on the reformist members of Bohra Youth Bohra. There was bloodshed in the holy places like mosques and Dargahs.
But thereafter the two groups had reconciled in their respective positions and were living peacefully. The fresh atrocities and violent attacks on the Bohra Youth started as soon as a new representative, Amil Mustafa, of Bohra religious establishment arrived in Udaipur. It seams that this man has been sent with a single point program to target members of Bohra Youth, harass them and compel them to hand over the possession of the community’s democratically run properties to the oppressive and exploitative Bohra establishment. Having failed in law courts they now want to seiz the property by force.
In Udaipur the properties of Dawoodi Bohra Community are registered under “Panch Bohras”. It is a fact that has been well-documented and produced as evidence in various court cases. Hence these community’s properties like mosques, Jamatkhanas etc have remained in the hands of Panch Bohras (Bohra reformists) after the mass revolt in 1972. As the orthodox Bohras of Shabab were told that the prayers in these mosques are done without the permission (Raza) of Bohra Sayedna and therefore not valid, they stopped offering payers in these mosques and made separate arrangements in private premises.
Because of reformists’ hold on community’s property, the Udaipur has become a great embarrassment for Bohra head and a challenge to his un-Islamic and unconstitutional claim of ownership / sole-trusteeship of the Bohra community’s properties like mosques. In Islam mosques are dedicated to Allah and any Muslim can offer prayers in mosques. But the Bohra Dai since present Dai’s father’s time has claiming that mosques must be dedicated to him and placed in his absolute ownership. He also claims that if the prayers are not done with his permission (Raza) and lead by persons not appointed by him then such prayers will be invalid and not accepted by Allah.
In fact the father of present Bohra head and 51st Bohra Dai, late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin had invented a pernicious doctrine of “absolute ownership” of everything belonging to his followers. Thus he claimed, in the famous Chandabhoy Gullah case fought in the Bombay High Court between 1917 and 1921 that he is master of body, soul and the properties of his followers. He also claimed their absolute submission in all matters religious as well as secular. This doctrine of absolute-ownership did not exist before him so the late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin could not substantiate his claims under cross examination in the Bombay High Court. Naturally these claims were rejected by the learned Judge Martin of the Bombay High Court.
In 1982 some Shababi (orthodox) Bohras filed a suit claiming the possession of mosques but the court rejected their locus standi as it was their high priest Mohammed Burhanuddin who claimed to ‘own' the mosques and hence his followers could not claim the mosques.
Thus for the first time the Bohra head, Burhanuddin Saheb himself became a party in a court case to seize control of the community’s properties in Udaipur. The Bohra high priest was himself a plaintiff. He had claimed all the Bohra mosques in Udaipur. He had sought an injunction for possession of these mosques pending the final disposal of the case. But High court of Rajasthan rejected his claims. Now the dispute is pending in the Supreme Court.
Since last 12 to 15 years the tension between the orthodox and reformist groups had siezed. They were peacefully co-existing and even intermingling on day to day activities till the new Amil Mustafa arrived in Udaipur. Amil’s hired goons from neigbouring towns have been attacking reformists going to the Moyyadpura mosque. This mosque is under court control and its use is restricted only during set occasions like namaaz and other pre-appointed functions. For past several months Amil Mustafa has been trying his damnedest to get complete possession of the mosque and the attached jamaatkhana. All his tactics in the past few months of creating an atmosphere of general nuisance didn't work so now he is resorting to violence against reformists in the holy month and that too inside the holy place.
It is suspected by the local media persons that this time the Amil Mustafa has bribed the administration to turn a blind eye while Amil’s goons attack innocent people. Several reformists have been deliberately arrested, and we know what's going to happen next. False charges will be laid against reformists Bohras that would result in years of legal wrangling, further harassment waste of time and energy and funds.
We therefore demand that Amil Mustafa be arrested immediately and disposed off from Udaipur to restore peace. If the apprehension of police role in the matter is true then we request the state government to see that the justice is done with reformist Bohras. Imposing of curfew in the holy month of Ramazan has put Muslims in those areas in difficulty which may result in unfeeling against a BJP ruled state.
Asghar Ali Engineer,
(Gen. Secretary)
-
udaipurresident
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
Dear Amerge,Originally posted by Amerge:
Dear Pro-Pig,
We want peace only, this is the clegy and thier henchmen who started the fight with not allowing reformist to join in prayers.
I would like to bring to your notice that the present eruption of violence at the moiyadpura was not because of the orthodox but because of the over enthusaism & shear arrogance of our fellow reformist.I clearly recall the instance on that day when a couple of our people had damaged the car of an orthodox & had removed the photo of current syedna, thereafter they showed their disrespect & hatred when they burned that pic & another pic of syedna that they had brought from the musafirkhana adjacent to the lukmanji moula roza.Now on one instance we reformist claim that we believe in the syedna & on controry we display shear arrogance disrespect to the dai in public.The people who were involved were cheered by our fellow present there.What i feel now is that our movement is not towards reforming the society but seek every opportunity to show disrespect to the clergy.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
hey udaipur dude what you are sying is like poison to the progs they will never accept it,soon you will be abused.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
it is really funny to see insaap posting a artcle from ajger about holy month of ramadan,calling it holy when he probably does not even fast
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
udaipurresident,
When provoked people do stupid and foolish things. Stopping people from entering a mosque is an ungodly and highly provocative act, something that you do not expect from (your beloved) clergy. People were expressing their rage and anger, and it is unfortunate that they did it by showing disrespect to the Sayedna. And in any case, ordinary people are not saints, it is difficult to find respect for a leader who continues to cause them so much suffering. Remember, respect is a two-way street. You get respect when you give respect.
Anyways, thank you for pointing out this incident, every sane reformist must condemn it. But please do not junk the whole movement for the actions of a few. It seems to me that you are a one big disgruntled, dissatisfied, stuck-up reformist. What is stopping you from joining the ranks of all those betrayers and renegades like Ghulam Hussain and Ibrahim Saifee? If not for them there would have no masjid issue today. They sold the movement down the river, and are now actively working to destroy it. Join them and give them a hand, they need all the help they can get. And your beloved clergy might condescend to bless you too. Take my advice, cut your losses and run.
When provoked people do stupid and foolish things. Stopping people from entering a mosque is an ungodly and highly provocative act, something that you do not expect from (your beloved) clergy. People were expressing their rage and anger, and it is unfortunate that they did it by showing disrespect to the Sayedna. And in any case, ordinary people are not saints, it is difficult to find respect for a leader who continues to cause them so much suffering. Remember, respect is a two-way street. You get respect when you give respect.
Anyways, thank you for pointing out this incident, every sane reformist must condemn it. But please do not junk the whole movement for the actions of a few. It seems to me that you are a one big disgruntled, dissatisfied, stuck-up reformist. What is stopping you from joining the ranks of all those betrayers and renegades like Ghulam Hussain and Ibrahim Saifee? If not for them there would have no masjid issue today. They sold the movement down the river, and are now actively working to destroy it. Join them and give them a hand, they need all the help they can get. And your beloved clergy might condescend to bless you too. Take my advice, cut your losses and run.
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udaipurresident
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
Bhai hamsafar,Originally posted by Humsafar:
udaipurresident,
What is stopping you from joining the ranks of all those betrayers and renegades like Ghulam Hussain and Ibrahim Saifee? If not for them there would have no masjid issue today. They sold the movement down the river, and are now actively working to destroy it. Join them and give them a hand, they need all the help they can get. And your beloved clergy might condescend to bless you too. Take my advice, cut your losses and run.
i have been associated with the reformist since my childhood ,this allows me to have the inner feeling as well as the attitude of current reformist.
regarding your advice for me to join the ranks of ibrahim saifee & ghulam hussainapni rai apne paas he rakho.If they are betrayers then what are you all?now dont let me open all the boxes here.There is a famous one line which i surely ahve understood and felt & believe me this is bureid deep under everyone Consicou ki hamam mein sab nange hai.jin logo ne bohra youth ki jaan maal se seva ki thi ja kar pata karo unsab ka kya haal hai?kitne log unke akhri aur bure waqt mein saath the?After being associated with the reformist all i can say at this moment is we reformist are here not for reforms but to groom our children with hatred filled in heart for the bohrism & the dai.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
udaipurresident saheb,
It's one thing to be critical of the movement (and yes, it's not perfect and I've said that a thousand times) but quite another to condemn it all the time for its shrotcomings. The problem is not your criticism (which we need to improve ourselves) but your attitude. You seem to have a personal grudge which you're projecting on to the whole movement.
Haan bhai hamam mein sab naNge hi hote haiN. aap kya chahte hai ki reformists kapde pehan ke nahaye? aap kehna kya chahte hai - ki sab refromists gaddar hain? Mehrabaani kar ke aap ko jitne boxes kholne to kholiye, dariye nahi. Jin logoN ne jaan maal se aur dil se aur commitment se movement ki khidmat ki hai unko badle mai kuchh nahi chahiye. Gila un logoN ko hai jo movement ke zariye apna ullu sidha nahi kar sake, aur ab kud raheN haiN. ye movement to awaam ke jaagir hai, agar iska saath dena hai to khule diloN dimaag se saath do. Barhaa kaam karne waale aye aur chale gaye, aur bahraa aur ayenge aur chale jayenge. Kaun kis ka kab tak dhyan rakhega? aap kya chahaate haiN ki un sab ko phooloN se nawaaza jaaye? unhe takht par bethaya jaaye? Ye usooloN ki ladaayi hai bahi, jo usool-parast hai unhe chhoti-moti baatoN mein dilchaspi nahi, na hi woh aap jaise jhik jhik karte haiN aur rote rahte haiN. Meri abhi bhi yahi rai hai ki aap Shabab mein shaamil ho jayeN, wahan aapke bachhoN ko dai-parasti ke saath saath kaafi kuchh aur sikhne ko milega.
It's one thing to be critical of the movement (and yes, it's not perfect and I've said that a thousand times) but quite another to condemn it all the time for its shrotcomings. The problem is not your criticism (which we need to improve ourselves) but your attitude. You seem to have a personal grudge which you're projecting on to the whole movement.
Haan bhai hamam mein sab naNge hi hote haiN. aap kya chahte hai ki reformists kapde pehan ke nahaye? aap kehna kya chahte hai - ki sab refromists gaddar hain? Mehrabaani kar ke aap ko jitne boxes kholne to kholiye, dariye nahi. Jin logoN ne jaan maal se aur dil se aur commitment se movement ki khidmat ki hai unko badle mai kuchh nahi chahiye. Gila un logoN ko hai jo movement ke zariye apna ullu sidha nahi kar sake, aur ab kud raheN haiN. ye movement to awaam ke jaagir hai, agar iska saath dena hai to khule diloN dimaag se saath do. Barhaa kaam karne waale aye aur chale gaye, aur bahraa aur ayenge aur chale jayenge. Kaun kis ka kab tak dhyan rakhega? aap kya chahaate haiN ki un sab ko phooloN se nawaaza jaaye? unhe takht par bethaya jaaye? Ye usooloN ki ladaayi hai bahi, jo usool-parast hai unhe chhoti-moti baatoN mein dilchaspi nahi, na hi woh aap jaise jhik jhik karte haiN aur rote rahte haiN. Meri abhi bhi yahi rai hai ki aap Shabab mein shaamil ho jayeN, wahan aapke bachhoN ko dai-parasti ke saath saath kaafi kuchh aur sikhne ko milega.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
Dear UdaipurResident,
I would certainly condemn this incidence, if it is true. But this would not certainly make the entire reform movement put in black spot. Such incidence always occurs in the heat of moment. Such acts has been done by both the side, i hope u have not forgotten the ransacking of community center.
@humsafar
I m really sorry to say that with the above post, i m really disappointed to see a fellow udaipuri with such attitude of "Take it or leave it". Whatever point UdaipurResident had raised was not entirely wrong. And i beleive a person like you would have answered in a better way.
We are certainly not going to get anything by inculcating hatred against any one. Lets not resort to the tactics of kothari henchmen and kick out any one who had a different viewpoint than ours. Betrayals and cowardly acts are part of the package and we ll have to accept that. In all, if we can change the heart of any person, it would indeed be a great achievement.
May be resort to gandhigiri... bole toh vinamra hoke bolne ka...
I would certainly condemn this incidence, if it is true. But this would not certainly make the entire reform movement put in black spot. Such incidence always occurs in the heat of moment. Such acts has been done by both the side, i hope u have not forgotten the ransacking of community center.
@humsafar
I m really sorry to say that with the above post, i m really disappointed to see a fellow udaipuri with such attitude of "Take it or leave it". Whatever point UdaipurResident had raised was not entirely wrong. And i beleive a person like you would have answered in a better way.
We are certainly not going to get anything by inculcating hatred against any one. Lets not resort to the tactics of kothari henchmen and kick out any one who had a different viewpoint than ours. Betrayals and cowardly acts are part of the package and we ll have to accept that. In all, if we can change the heart of any person, it would indeed be a great achievement.
May be resort to gandhigiri... bole toh vinamra hoke bolne ka...
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
Amerge,
I've been dealing with udaipurresident for a long time, he's an incorrigible sour-puss who only has bad things to say about the movement. It's not his criticisms I object to but his attitude. Maybe gandhigiri will work, but frankly I've no patience for constant negativity.
I've been dealing with udaipurresident for a long time, he's an incorrigible sour-puss who only has bad things to say about the movement. It's not his criticisms I object to but his attitude. Maybe gandhigiri will work, but frankly I've no patience for constant negativity.
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udaipurresident
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
Dear hamsafar,Originally posted by Humsafar:
Gila un logoN ko hai jo movement ke zariye apna ullu sidha nahi kar sake, aur ab kud raheN haiN.
here you should also add that the batch of current leaders in udaipur is also more intrested in making their own ullu sidha.
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udaipurresident
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
Dear hamsafar,Originally posted by Humsafar:
Gila un logoN ko hai jo movement ke zariye apna ullu sidha nahi kar sake, aur ab kud raheN haiN.
here you should also add that the batch of current leaders in udaipur is also more intrested in making their own ullu sidha.
Also the incident which i am referring to i have one suggestion(now it is upto the leaders to adopt or reject): we are trying to & striving to project ourself who stand for truth & dignity, should we not try and introspect ourselves & call on the persons(and these are active supporters of bohra youth) who had done this stupid act and warn them from carrying out activities which are uncalled for.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
udaipurresident,
If what you're saying about the leaders is true then they will soon realise that their ullus will never become sidha. Nobody can fool the people for long. Look what happened to Ghulam Hussain, he thought people will follow him like blind fools, but they did not. He became the ullu in the end.
Regarding your suggestion, I fully agree with you. The people involved in that particular incident should be told that what they did was wrong. They must be told that burning the Dai's photos and showing disrespect to him is not what the reforms are about. They have to understand that our problem is with the system and not with the Dai per se, although the Dai directly and very visibly represnets that system. Expressing anger is one thing, insulting and descrating the Dai is quite another.
Why don't to tell the jamaat people to do this? You have my full support.
If what you're saying about the leaders is true then they will soon realise that their ullus will never become sidha. Nobody can fool the people for long. Look what happened to Ghulam Hussain, he thought people will follow him like blind fools, but they did not. He became the ullu in the end.
Regarding your suggestion, I fully agree with you. The people involved in that particular incident should be told that what they did was wrong. They must be told that burning the Dai's photos and showing disrespect to him is not what the reforms are about. They have to understand that our problem is with the system and not with the Dai per se, although the Dai directly and very visibly represnets that system. Expressing anger is one thing, insulting and descrating the Dai is quite another.
Why don't to tell the jamaat people to do this? You have my full support.
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udaipurresident
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
These people were seen in action by many people(both reformists & orthodox)& they are not hidden from anyone.As far as the link to making people fools goes then brother believe me our own reformists leaders in udaipur are more intrested in their power game than the movement itself.Originally posted by Humsafar:
Why don't to tell the jamaat people to do this? You have my full support.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
I'd suprised if there were no power games. Of course some of them are in it for power (whatever it's worth) for status and other such petty perks. In the end only those who are sincere and committed will find public respect and support.
I do not want to justify petty politics, but look at the clergy and all the jockeying going on for the appointment of the next dai. Do think they all are really interested in the Dawat?
I do not want to justify petty politics, but look at the clergy and all the jockeying going on for the appointment of the next dai. Do think they all are really interested in the Dawat?
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
The truth for ur Own Fellow. An Eye witness to the incident. Your double standards Wah Bhai wah!!! Mr Insaf,Engineer,Humsafar & all the torch bearers of Progs what do u have to say...Originally posted by udaipurresident:
Dear Amerge,Originally posted by Amerge:
Dear Pro-Pig,
We want peace only, this is the clegy and thier henchmen who started the fight with not allowing reformist to join in prayers.
I would like to bring to your notice that the present eruption of violence at the moiyadpura was not because of the orthodox but because of the over enthusaism & shear arrogance of our fellow reformist.I clearly recall the instance on that day when a couple of our people had damaged the car of an orthodox & had removed the photo of current syedna, thereafter they showed their disrespect & hatred when they burned that pic & another pic of syedna that they had brought from the musafirkhana adjacent to the lukmanji moula roza.Now on one instance we reformist claim that we believe in the syedna & on controry we display shear arrogance disrespect to the dai in public.The people who were involved were cheered by our fellow present there.What i feel now is that our movement is not towards reforming the society but seek every opportunity to show disrespect to the clergy.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
'true'bohra,
No need to be excited like a kid. Its a common practice of orthos to pretend as udaipur reformists and to criticise the reform movement as 'insiders' and 'eye witnesses'.
All it took you to get convinced was the id 'udaipur resident'. We know that you folks have a history of getting easily convinced by fairytales but if you keep exposing your gullibility, we'll soon have someone with the id 'syedna saifuddin' to expose the reality of 'nass'.
No need to be excited like a kid. Its a common practice of orthos to pretend as udaipur reformists and to criticise the reform movement as 'insiders' and 'eye witnesses'.
All it took you to get convinced was the id 'udaipur resident'. We know that you folks have a history of getting easily convinced by fairytales but if you keep exposing your gullibility, we'll soon have someone with the id 'syedna saifuddin' to expose the reality of 'nass'.
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udaipurresident
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
The same can be proclaimed/debated/proved about you Mr. Tahir.You keep on claiming that you have the inside reports about the kothar & keep on convincing the same by adding that your family is in the forefront for the sewa of kothar.Your uncle being a kothar sheikh blah blah blahhhhhh.Tum apni aukat mein raho to zyada acha hai.this reminds me of another kothar insider the self proclaimed Al-Zulfikar.He also made tall claims just like you tahir but whenever asked to testify his fairytales had no proof of same & as on date seems to be into some herbination mode.Originally posted by tahir:
'true'bohra,
No need to be excited like a kid. Its a common practice of orthos to pretend as udaipur reformists and to criticise the reform movement as 'insiders' and 'eye witnesses'.
.
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
udaipurresident,
Most people on this board are within the bohra fold and, by default, have an insiders perspective. Nothing tall in those claims. I am not at all proud of my family links with kothar.
Besids, Kothar's corruption is obvious enough for all to see - whether outsiders or insiders.
You don't have to taste shit to know that it is shit
Most people on this board are within the bohra fold and, by default, have an insiders perspective. Nothing tall in those claims. I am not at all proud of my family links with kothar.
Besids, Kothar's corruption is obvious enough for all to see - whether outsiders or insiders.
You don't have to taste shit to know that it is shit
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
The recend round distubance in Udaipur did not start with this incident. It started with the orthodox plan to "wrest" control of the moyyadpur mosque by refusing entry to reformists. What udaipurresident is describing in the result of this provocation. He is lying when he says that this incident led to the eruption of violence.
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Curfew in Udaipur
quoted from udaipur resident:
""this reminds me of another kothar insider the self proclaimed Al-Zulfikar. He also made tall claims just like you tahir but whenever asked to testify his fairytales had no proof of same & as on date seems to be into some herbination mode.""
UR, u seem to be some charlatan and cheap impostor who is claiming to be a reformist udaipuri but bent on destroying its credibility by hook or crook. Who knows, but from yr language u appear to be a parasite amil or shezaada afraid about his haraam ni kamai being affected.
u asking me for proof? about what? about why is the present syedna's mother's (Taher saifuddin's first wife) urus not celebrated and her ziyarat not publicised when they have the opportunity to make crores every year from it?
proof that taher saifuddin was a liar, as certified by the courts? proof that he claimed and his son is even now claiming that they are the Allah on earth and the veritable kaaba, the talking quran, the person who guarantees your place in paradise inspite of all yr sins in life, ( an unislamic claim which puts him above Allah!) and so on and so forth?
the onus of the proof is on the fanatics, let them prove that whatever i say is a lie. since you seem to be amongst their evil ranks, maybe u can take that initiative.
as for "herbination" (a sample of yr pathetic & ridiculous english!), its yr orthodox mind which is hibernating and which needs a 10,000 volt kick in its backside to wake it up!
""this reminds me of another kothar insider the self proclaimed Al-Zulfikar. He also made tall claims just like you tahir but whenever asked to testify his fairytales had no proof of same & as on date seems to be into some herbination mode.""
UR, u seem to be some charlatan and cheap impostor who is claiming to be a reformist udaipuri but bent on destroying its credibility by hook or crook. Who knows, but from yr language u appear to be a parasite amil or shezaada afraid about his haraam ni kamai being affected.
u asking me for proof? about what? about why is the present syedna's mother's (Taher saifuddin's first wife) urus not celebrated and her ziyarat not publicised when they have the opportunity to make crores every year from it?
proof that taher saifuddin was a liar, as certified by the courts? proof that he claimed and his son is even now claiming that they are the Allah on earth and the veritable kaaba, the talking quran, the person who guarantees your place in paradise inspite of all yr sins in life, ( an unislamic claim which puts him above Allah!) and so on and so forth?
the onus of the proof is on the fanatics, let them prove that whatever i say is a lie. since you seem to be amongst their evil ranks, maybe u can take that initiative.
as for "herbination" (a sample of yr pathetic & ridiculous english!), its yr orthodox mind which is hibernating and which needs a 10,000 volt kick in its backside to wake it up!