Let us walk the talk

[ozmujaheed]

As Salaam Aleikum,

I have been dormant for 7 years and been a frequent visitor and have noticed reforms are still at the stage where many criticize and many fanatic counter respond. I have in fact observed more and more youth are falling into the orthodox flock and reformists and moderates are a minority.

No offence meant to reformist leaders but we have lacked inspirational and leaders who have the integrity and ability to call up the numbers to start the revolution.

Some forum leaders will respond using vulgarity and take this thread off tangent but I request the admin to filter such responses.

I want readers to come with ideas to make real practical plans to rock the boat. Talking is not enough, ..as we have to call up numbers, funds, proffessional.

Let us sow the seeds of coup...a long journey must start with the fist steps. Lets have turn the dream into reality....

Complaining about small stuff and extravagence lifestyle will not sink the Kothar but real and thought through protests that hurts them where it matters. But also let us do it smartly and in military precision. If we have to sacrifice the let it not be in vain.

Look around you and pickup the good methods eg India independence, Marxism, fall of the USSR, US civil rights, historical Jihads by Muhammed SAW, Ali AS, Husain AS.

Keep focused and let us churn ideas and peel through the Kotharis one layer by one layer.

If I slack my neighbour picks the weapon ang goes on.

Inshallah we will overcome.

[like_minded]

The best thing about the bohra religion is that its so transparently absurd it can't possibly last forever. I'm convinced it will only take a small shift in bohra consciousness for it to be laughed off this planet, and I hope I am still around when that happens.

[Smart]

The turning point is nigh. The present dai is not immortal, and very very old. He has not appointed his successor openly. The wolves are bound to fall out on his death. This is when all of us can expect to see dramatic changes. The fanatics are in denial, but they don't matter either way.

[Humsafar]

Good post OZ. Hope something practical and fruitful comes out of it. I agree, reformists could and should do better, and not everybody is committed and active as they should be. A lack of "fire" on part of the reformists is only one aspect of the situation, the other is lack of courage on part of the victims. One thing we must understand is that no matter what we do from the "outside" little is going to change unless and until the masses are ready for it.

And when will they be ready? Don't know? We do know however that the majority of Bohras are fed up, they are aware of the shenanigans that go in the name of religion and, given a chance, will opt for a better system. I believe that the collective consciousness is ready for the shift like-minded talks about. That shift may be caused by some cataclysmic event - like Sayedna's death as Smart mentions - or by sustained organising. I'll bet my money on the latter. As I've always maintained, there's no substitute to organising. Every jamaat/city has a bunch of disaffected, disillusioned individuals and families. They have to get together and start organising: talk to like-minded people, hold meetings, challenge Aamil on small matters and graduate to bigger things. Reformists have a role to play in this. They should actively seek out such elements and help them organise, give them the ammunitions - religious knowledge, information, awareness, moral support - to stand up to the Aamil and other local bullies. This is no doubt a slow process but the only one that works all the time. If every jamaat rises up in revolt one after the other, the Kothar and its entrenched bureaucracy will fall like a house of cards.

But the question remains, are Bohras up to it, i.e. organising and revolting? Maybe not in the short run but human spirit will ultimately prevail. Also, we must not forget that every tyranny carries a seed of its own destruction. It's end will come sooner if we choose to do something about it, and later if we do nothing. I still have hope in humans despite my enduring belief in their stupidity.

[ozmujaheed]

Appreciate your responses but in 50 yrs we have seen very little change and waiting for miracles or mortality is not good enough. The 53rd could be worse ! Or may be better but why risk it ...Let us start thinking in military terms and get the ball rolling. The Kotharis are stocking up in case the 53rd is not as sucessfull in fleecing. The clan is large almost 1000. They are by passing government monitoring by handling funds in cash and gold.

We need representatives from all parts of the globe from all levels men women, professionals, youth. But we also need to operate in stealth because there is no point of displaying our tactics on this forum as they will find ways of repelling our attacks and by the way we have less funds and manpower.

all means justify the end and even if it means bending rules and ethics, we have to us Kotharis tactics for their own demise. Use the "pen",influence (government contacts, 9/11 laws), technology (youtube, media,chain emails) and publicity as our weapons.

Can the admin create a secure blog where participants are restricted and we can plan better however getting mole pretending and leaking plans is always the risk. Communication is key even if it means propoganda or misleading.

Simple tips, eye for an eye they kill our dog we kill their cat let us not shy from methods but also not loose our skin foolishly for no gain. A live and well mujaheed is far better than a dead or victimised mujaheed.

Old Progressives (OP) have not provided alternative social identity or purpose, the New Progressives (NP) need to mend the old mistakes.

The OP used old school Gandhi methods which may need overhaul. NP are the new generation more aware of global trends and freedoms.

[Baskin]

Oz,

HA HA HA

You are making me laugh.

[like_minded]

Oz,

HA HA HA

You are making me laugh.

Oh yeah!! Do you also laugh when your syedna gives an elaborate lecture on his favorite topic "shahadat of hussain" and when you see the lunatics around him beating themselves crazy and crying their b.alls off? Well actually its a pretty comic scenario isn't it??

[Baskin]

Dawat na dushmano jalse ghana.

[ghulam muhammed]

Dawat na dushmano jalse ghana.

Here itself is an example of who actually is burning.

Lets not forget that what one needs is patience and Allah always tests ones patience. We are believers of Hazrat Ali a.s. and Imam Hussain a.s. and we shouldnt forget that they are the best examples of "Sabar" i.e.patience. Till very recently, who would have ever thought that the evil American and western powers who are responsible for all the unrest accross the globe would find themselves in such a precarious situation wherein inspite of all their so called measures they are unable to come out of the deep financial mess that they are in. Allah gave them a whale of a time to mess with the outside world but when He decided to pull the strings, it took hardly any time. Same is the case of Kothar. They will fall like a pack of cards when Allah decides that the time is ripe and thereafter they will never ever be able to raise their heads. I know that the kothari agents on this thread will not agree but they forget that every dog has his day and Jhoot ki umar zyaada nahi hoti. Now time will show as to who has the last laugh.

[Smart]

@Baskin
How typically regressive you are! Either gaali galoch or ridicule! Can you people reason?

[ozmujaheed]

Ignore the orthodox..let us focus ..I have not receieved ideas and actions ..all I read is excuses for doing nothing !

Let us discuss how to get organised and start to change...

Dry up the Kotharis cash and their lifebllod will seize and they will wilt !

Admin can we start having images on this website let us put the photos of all their atrocities and shirk start having video clips of thier sins on the web....publicity my freinds publicity.

Let us start collecting the war kitty...a fund from donations..etc

Instead of gossipping on this web start sending emails to people who can cause damage to their credibility !

[like_minded]

Oz

I appreciate your eagerness to get rid of this corrupt/shameless system dominated for years by the blood-sucking parasites called Kotharis. I personally believe, the problem has to be dealt in its roots. The root is RELIGION/FAITH/BELIEFS/SCRIPTURES and all other nonsense which decays the human spirit.. and drives us all back to medieval ages.

For me, God is the most impure thought and whenever I am forcefully drawn towards religion, I feel contaminated, It could be the shameless hypocrisy, the arrogant self-righteousness, the willful ignorance.... Religion is God's way of saying to us..that he does not exist.

[ghulam muhammed]

Br.Oz

I agree with you that what we need is a systematic approach to cleanse the minds of the people of our community. There are some bohras who prefer to remain ignorant and put a blind eye on the corrupt system and there are some whose conscience does raise some important and pertinent questions but are tied up as they prefer to remain ghettoised in the bohra society. Kothar, like the rulers worldwide succeed in ruling over the community because they too, like the rest of world control the masses psychologically. They are very good psychologists and they hit where it hurts the most. They tie down the community and dont allow the masses to interact with people outside their dawoodi bohra fold. They do this by fabricating false stories, distorting historical and religous facts and in the process inject poison in the minds of bohras especially against co-muslims because it is the muslims outside the bohra fold that they are most scared of.

Kothar is not scared of non muslims because they are confident that bohras wont be impressed or influenced by other religions and idol worshippers and so there is no laanat or abuse on any hindu,christian or jewish figures but on the contrary the likes of Bal Thackerey, Narendra Modi, American and UK mayors etc are openly felicitated. This inspite of the fact that these are the people who are the real enemies of Islam. The views on Islam if any, expressed by these people wont have any bearing on the minds of bohras but the views of a non bohra muslim will definately raise some questions in the minds of bohras.

Hence it is not surprising that Kothar addresses non bohra muslims as "Aa to musalman chhe". I fail to understand that why bohras refuse to even once think that if the other is a muslim then who am I ? Am I not the follower of Islam and thereby am I too not a Muslim ? If Iam not a muslim then why the hell am I believeing in Rasul Allah s.a.w., Hazrat Ali a.s. and Ahle Bayt who are the pillars of the Muslim world ? Why then do I believe in the Kalima and 7 pillars of Islam ? Bohras are even refrained from praying in non bohra muslim masjids. From these facts it is evident that Kothar has succeeded in creating a religion and a sect which refuses to accept itself as Muslims. In their evil designs of grabbing power and commanding full control on a group of people, kothar has succeeded in creating a religion of its own. They are just using Allah's religion Islam as a tool to grab power and make loads of money.

These are some primary issues which I think should be dealt with vigorously. What we need is to awaken the bohra conscience. Ultimately it is Allah's wish as to whether He wants to give tauhfiq to the present day bohras or not.

[ghulam muhammed]

Dry up the Kotharis cash and their lifebllod will seize and they will wilt !

Br.Oz,

The amount of black money that this kothar has extorted from the gullible bohras is now a well known fact and a universal truth. We know that the state administration is not too keen on unearthing this black money due to the vote bank politics and the elections round the corner but there are still some sincere and honest people working in the concerned departments who could take the initiative.

[ozmujaheed]

Yes I am eager and I am disapointed that we can seat back in our comfortable computer chairs and complain till the cows come home to Yarra but not take one step forward ?
I do not know if this is Guju genes of timidness of never raising arms or protesting and if they slap us once we crawl back into our hole ?
I know others have given their lives and family up but why do we rest shrink rather emulate their sacrifices ?
If we cannot do that then once again this reform movement is all but a silly gossip board !
Start posting images, scanned docs and vidoe links of corruptions and shirk and we make the wrongs public ?

[neutralbohri]

ASAK,
People need to realize on their own. Let me give you an example.

Everyone in my family and my extended family are die-hard fanatics to such an extent that beliefs like the following reside in their bones.

--They say that the more Wajebaat they give, the better is for their economic condition. Their economic condition will improve if they give more Wajebaat.
--They take the name of Allah and Mola together. They cant differentiate between the two.
--They talk of Qar-E-Aali as if they are the best citizens of this planet. If they happen to meet or see or interact with someone who is even remotely connected to Qasr-E-Aali they put that instance in their brag list.

People like me are a minority. I dont even dare and talk about this topic with my family and extended family for fear of becoming an outcast.

I just observe and feel sad about the whole thing.

[like_minded]

NB

Believe me, there are many bohras out there who suffer the same fate as yours.. Till a few years back, even I was subjected to this shameless hypocrisy/ blatant violation of my basic rights/ absurd beliefs and superstitions/ blind following of syedna and his gangsters... Till one day, when the frustration needed to find its way out like lava... I just put my foot down and said enough!!

I managed to make myself clear.. You believe in the most absurd fantasies that you can ever imagine, I have no problems, but if you intend to impose them upon me... then all you can expect is my verbal finger.. thats it. Because I don't respect your beliefs and if you're offended, I don't care.

This annoyed my family members a great deal, but what could I do? You get one life to live, and if you cannot live the way you want to... then whats the whole point??

Till this day, they are trying all means to get me back on the so-called path "dawat or deen" whatever.... and I am sure they'll never give up.

I keep telling them, If you have to worship something, try worshiping something REAL, like the planet that gave you life, because its the best friend you ever had, and I believe its the only friend you will ever have.

[like_minded]

Yes I am eager and I am disapointed that we can seat back in our comfortable computer chairs and complain till the cows come home to Yarra but not take one step forward ?
I do not know if this is Guju genes of timidness of never raising arms or protesting and if they slap us once we crawl back into our hole ?
I know others have given their lives and family up but why do we rest shrink rather emulate their sacrifices ?
If we cannot do that then once again this reform movement is all but a silly gossip board !
Start posting images, scanned docs and vidoe links of corruptions and shirk and we make the wrongs public ?

OZ

I agree with you, concrete steps must be taken to get rid of this dangerous flu.. no doubt. Bohra religion or should I say cult, must be shown the place where it actually belongs "dustbin" and all Kotharis/aamils and all connected in popularizing this cult must be put in prison for fraud.

Now, the question remains, how do we do it? because these guys are powerful which we all know, and by sheer money power they have managed to nullify the judicial system, politicians and other authorities across the globe. So, we are back to square A aren't we? This of course excludes the Udaipur scenario where we find real men with b.a.lls and not the fake ones which most bohras have.

And as you suggest posting images, scanned docs etc, which I guess is already being done at this site.

Most blind-followers do not want reform, thats the bottom line... For them, this system provides a security and for which they are ready to pay from their noses.. A tricky situation, wouldn't you agree??

[Humsafar]

Oz,
I appreciate your passion but let's take it easy. You're a new kid on the block bursting with gung-ho spirit and I'd hate to rain on your parade. I've known from experience that people who come here all pumped-up also get disappointed, disillusioned and alienated very soon when things don't go there way. I hope the same fate does not await you. Know that this is a long-haul thing, no quick fixes, no instant results.

So let's take a step back, and let's think over what your "guerrilla" tactics - videos, photos etc. - are going to achieve. First of all what videos and photos are you talking about. Second, how much more do you want to "expose" the Kothar than what has not been already done and being done. As I keep saying the real urge for change must come from the inside - and our task should be to induce and provoke that urge. As it is reformists are seen as outsiders and enemies, all these slash and burn exposes will only serve to further alienate the community from our cause.

Our approach should be to educate and inform - which we are doing pretty well. And also to create conditions for people so that they can stand up to the local aamil. This is where the reformist leadership is lacking in vision and commitment. And let's face it, it is not that easy either. We've to be sensitive about how we tackle this, our approach should be to take the community in confidence, tell them that we mean well, that we are not the enemies of the Dawat and Dai. This I can tell you is the 'official' reformist approach.

[Fatwa Banker]

No offence meant to reformist leaders but we have lacked inspirational and leaders who have the integrity and ability to call up the numbers to start the revolution.

It is not inspirational leadership that the movement is lacking, but guts. After 7 years of dormancy you have come out looking for a leader. To the contrary, this is a problem of too many chiefs and not many Indians (no pun intended). That begs the question, what have you done in 7 years that justifies leadership that you so yearn ? The problem is societal. The leadership is trying to corral a bunch of wimpy boys that haven’t yet figured out how to not marry someone who is selected by their parents, or how to move out of a joint family habitat. Getting these so called men to fight religious oppression appears to be hopeless at his point. The fact is that the Kothar does not hold a gun to anyone’s head to give money, they play to the wimpy boy’s desire to belong and they give willingly.

This is not a problem of leadership, but an inherent desire of the disenfranchised masses’ need to adhere to conformity. You Can Lead A Horse To Water, But You Can't Make It Drink

[ozmujaheed]

Fantwa Banker and Humsfar somehow decided it wasy easy to cricize me and my methods ! How convenient ? Have you just not displayed the same behaviours and arrogance as Kotharis when I challenged your approach and your achievements. If you are not ready to change within the progressives then sorry there is no material impact you will cause and the segregated society will continue.

I am not a new kid I am in my 30s and I have spent 7 years waiting for change and natural events wow miracle seems to be on Kothari side. While you have preached well done and thanks you kept the pilot lamp on but what we need now is the burst of flames for mass objection and changes.I have also meanwhile been part of some interesting transformations which I can use in my plans as your issues can be classed similar.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying there is any one better way of getting the job done but use multi-pronged attack. A special website dedicate to expose the sajadas, salams, incremenating bayans !

Irony is if you look at registered bloggers on this site and compare the number of kotharis, true orthodox , people on the fringes who love the jamaan and do what they are asked even though they hate it, people who make some protests by being within the flock, progressives community and real fighters like the few the numbers will not be very different if approx 1million was split:
1,000; 400,000; 400,000;40,000;100,000;1,000

What this infoms that majority are in the flock and have very little need for change if their basic social needs are met. They will occassionally visit this site or in confines of their small groups complain "wajebaat gani apvi pari a warse". The progressives will chug along but always be see as those across the fence.


Plan should be to influence and target the 540,000 such that it also attracts many from the 400,000 orthodox for whatever reasons. Eliminate or diminish the 1,000 kotharis while the 1,000 progressive leaders will continue crticising my tactics or the new phase of Bohraism created to their surprise. If plans go as expected we could have a cool 650,000 new Islamic society with the culture intact and true faith. Allow natural propogation and they those reamining will spread out in broader humanity.

Now before any one of you throw stones can you come up with a better idea or help improve on my plan.


To those who want to fight from within I agree but get more aggressive and smart and use the progessive tools if required.

[ozmujaheed]

Before Kotharis jump to celebrate my open challenge to Progressives there is no civil war in the making if I sense I am causing more damage internally I will shut down the discussion...caution I am only challenging to re-group and reset the navigator..We may kick bums and weed out dead wood but the aim is still to get to you...as I said earlier end justifies the means and keep focused.

If Kotahris read this blog and think they now know what plans I have or can disclose you can keep dreaming...All I am doing is getting the army of volunteers sorted and the details will never be disclosed such foolishly...some of my naivity is intentional to engage as many people as possible.

[khidmatguzar]

Is there some problem with every sect in Islam?? I guess so.... Islam is much younger religion, so does bohraism ... the problem in other than bohra is that the radicals never let the spiritual side of it to reach to the masses or power.... so the world mostly see the radical part of it....

come to bohraism, it also has its violent side hidden beneath the layers of spirituality and other mild shit....

[Smart]

@Oz
Your long post was not very clear. Could you please post it in clear terms? I would be interested in the outcomes you define.

[Fatwa Banker]

Oz,

I support your enthusiasm but not your expectations of the reform movement, of which I am not a part of. Outrage must translate to action and cannot be spoon fed by leaders of the movement; they can simply channel the outrage. Your posts are similar to other well wishing progressives who post what should be done but have not taken the initiative to do anything. Again, the problem is societal which is a larger hurdle for the movement and Islam in general, and frankly will not be overcome in our lifetime. Even Danish allowed his brother to hang a picture of the Dai in his own home for Christ’s sake, and it was not until his brother had left town did he have the guts to smash it to pieces. This is what Dr. Engineer and others are dealing with, lack of guts and an unwillingness to take a stand.

Every reformer appears to be expecting someone else to reform. If I have misunderstood your efforts and contribution, my apologies.

[Gulf]

I am not a new kid
sure, kids can not be registered here

I am in my 30s
everybody are here are in their 30's upto 40's (Oma too )

and I have spent 7 years waiting for change
ohh!! 7 years waiting for change?? It must became a stink-bomb by now..go man get it changed right now

and natural events wow miracle seems to be on Kothari side
Yes, not like anything but, with karam & Ehsan.

[ozmujaheed]

Enough of barbs on one another ..lets get back to walk the talk

What "I" can do and hope you will do same: Lets have roll call ? So we have the maximum global coverage. I am TFN from Melb ? If we have courage lets declare our intents

Next I will create a page for photos and artefacts to start a gallery of images for evidence.

[SBM]

ozmujaheed
Salaam
Brother you are really hyped up. You have to be careful using language like

first many waves of attack, instructions will be come step by step"

sounds like a guide from Al Qaida.
I do not think this kind of language is suitable for this board. Even though your intentions may be peaceful of exposing corruptions and mis use of community funds, it may be interpreted as an armed struggle.
I have posted elsewhere on this board the names of Kotharis who contributed to George Bush's reelection which included the Turab Zakiuddin and his family who are head of Dawat e Hadiya USA and others. Might be their contributions be reported to Democratic congressman or IRS.
BUT PLEASE REFRAIN USING KIND OF LANGUAGE WHICH CAN CREATE PROBLEMS FOR ALL MUSLIMS

[Admin]

ozmujaheed,

omabharti is right, stop using militarized language which in and of itself is inappropriate, but given the sensitive environment we live in it is also highly dangerous. We are running a social reform campaign not an armed struggle. We appreciate your enthusiasm but let's not be reckless about it.

[East Africawalla]

Ozmujaheed,

You are on the wrong site, we are all bohras and are a loving and peaceful people whatever our differences as Kotharis or progressives.

Go somewhere else with your militant tendencies