Inside Saifee Mahal

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Inside Saifee Mahal

#1

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:59 pm

Ever wondered what its like inside this palace of a spiritual guide who claims to be an ardent follower of Hazrat Ali a.s. At no point of time did Rasul Allah s.a.w. (Sarkar-e-qayanat) or Hazrat Ali a.s. (Shere Khuda) ever named their respective holy houses as "Mahal" or ever lived the luxurious lifestyle of a king like our present Dai.

1) Saifee Mahal is spread over acres of land and is situated in the most expensive locality of India where the going rate of an apartment is around Rs.45,000 per sq.feet and by which Saifee Mahal is valued at a minimum of Rs.1,000 crores.

2) One forgets that our country is a vibrant democracy once he enters SM because here you find a monarch (Sultan of Bohra) living with his princes (shehzadas), princesses (shehzadis) and other members who proudly call themselves "royal family". Democracy ends here and dictatorship begins.

3) The monarch resides in a palace which is a huge 3 storeyed structure wherein in one of the massive halls, he conducts baithaks, ziafats and wajebat collections. On the 1st floor there is another huge princely hall adorned by carcasses of stuffed tigers shot by the monarch which he proudly displays. The monarch's personal living room has been recently done up with water fountains. The lavish iranian carpets, priceless antiques and marble floorings are worth seeing.

4) The palace is surrounded by a sprawling garden, car parks and a small masjid. There are another few buildings near the palace and within the SM premises, out of which one building is exclusively for his sons and the others are for Mazum saab and other family members which number around 1000.

5) One of my fanatic relative had been to one of the son's apartment and he found it to be no less lavish then that of a superstar. The interior was just mind blowing and done up by a leading interior designer of Mumbai. The dining table and chairs were made of silver, the swing in the balcony had silver rods. His child played with small gold toys and had a doll house, the likes of what we see in hollywood films. He was shocked to see the wash basin as it had gold engravings on it and hold your breadth, the tap was of solid gold. The other artefacts and antiques were out of the world.The shehzadas re-do their interiors every 6 months because that is how their wives pass their time.

6) Now next to the main palace is the common kitchen which caters to the whole lot in SM. I dont need to mention the variety of food which is cooked here as it is anybody's guess. The servants on the other hand are served with dal and rice on a daily basis. Every apartment has got a minimum of one maid and one male servant. Now you can multiply that with the number of apartments that exist in the premises. Add that with the number of drivers, gardeners and watchmen. They have a professional security agency to guard their SM round the clock. The number of non bohra servants far out number the bohra servants. Now who says there is poverty among bohras ?

7) There are a few godowns which are stuffed upto the brim with costly crystal dinner sets, crystal showpieces and antiques. One of the godown is stuffed with a number of 50kg sacks of badam, pista and walnut, half of which is eaten up by ants and rodents.

8) I bet that the maximum amount of currency notes that anyone on this forum must have seen would have been a bag full of notes or a cupboard full of notes unless one is an employee of a leading bank. Here in Saifee Mahal there is a huge room full of currency notes collected from gallas of various dargahs and wajebat and other extortion amounts. I was told that there is a team of young brainwashed boys from surat which comes at regular intervals just to count the money and it takes them a few days to count the booty. The extortionists are so busy that they do not even have the time to count the money.

The above are the few observations made by my fanatic relative who is very close to one of the shehzadas and surprisingly he was not sad or ashamed on seeing the above but on the contrary he narrated these facts with a sense of pride. This is the state of our present day gullible bohras.

Now from the above mentioned facts can anyone please tell me, where are the teachings and principles of Islam and the Holy Prophet s.a.w. and where does the stereo typed slogan of the bohras' "Live like Ali a.s. and Die like Hussain a.s." fit in ?

Last but not the least, this property worth a thousand crores was gifted by Sir Adamjee Peerbhoy and these be-imaan people instead of being grateful to Sir Adamjee have on the contrary prevented the bohra coomunity from even doing his ziarat and have come out with all sorts of baseless and cooked up false allegations against him and his family. If Sir Adamjee Peerbhoy is so much disliked by them then why are they enjoying on his property ? Why dont they move out of a place which belonged to a so called daawat na dushman ?

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#2

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:39 pm

Excellent detailed description. Can someone from Mumbai pass this link on to the media, the opposition party of the state, the state government and loacl police ?

Anyone has photos and video clips to prove the point ! Let me know when we can watch it on NDTV channel !

Gulf
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#3

Unread post by Gulf » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:08 am

Last but not the least,
regarding 'ozmujaheed'........ he seems terrorist like... last but not the least on this site :(
Peerbhoy and these be-imaan people instead
:!: Peerbhoy I have been hearing this name since a week or two... please search the news.. peerbhoy huh!

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#4

Unread post by accountability » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:26 am

Muhammed, very good post. This is where the reform starts, once the princely lives of so called royal family is exposed, it will have some effect. As you said, your relative was rather proud than angry and ashamed. I find it very common, people are so brainwashed, but posts like these will certainly have an impact on a normal person. Let us hope that we still have some normality left in our fellow bohras.

I would really appreciate if you can throw some light on the miserable condition of our bohra brothers and sister living around saifee mahal, and in mumbai, so as to draw a cotrast and comparison.

Please also mention, that this lifestyle is not the result of any business empire like TATA, Barla or Ambani's. It is supported by the coercive donations collected from all including widows, orphans, poors and straving souls.

Morever, your post only mentions the lifestyle of royal family, I can assure you, that amils on their part are not living any less, they are extorting from above for themselves after extorting for royal family.

East Africawalla
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#5

Unread post by East Africawalla » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:55 am

For clarification , Sir Adamjee Peerbhai has never been dawat na dushman and has always been respected , its his sibblings who went against the dawat.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#6

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:41 pm

Br.East Africawalla,

I never said that the great philanthrophist Sir Adamjee Peerbhoy was a dawaat na dushman as I myself dont believe that he could ever be one. What I said was that the Kothar has projected him as one or else why would they put a ban on doing his ziarat and why would they plan to demolish his grave to pave a way for the expansion of their Hospital and other commercial projects ? So you see that not only are his siblings being troubled but kothar in their evil designs of tarnishing the image of the Peerbhoy family has not even spared the one who is no more in this world.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#7

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:45 pm

Gulf now how interesting that you are turning and sqeeking and calling me names when you have oppressed the thousands for over a generation.

I will use your own tactics for Kotahris downfall...I can not guarantee immediate results but I will get heads turning and make sure I increase the momentum of protests and shame.

Now did anyone report this issue to the Indian media and machinary ? No point if these facts are lying on this website.

jayanti
Posts: 268
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#8

Unread post by jayanti » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:25 pm

HAHAHAHAHAHAH Dude do you have some things to do better!

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#9

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:58 pm

Its time to buy the tin cans Hizbullah is using against Israel.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#10

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:13 am

Herein below is an article published in March 2000 by "Communalism Combat", an NGO run by emminent people like Javed Anand and Teesta Setalvad who were instrumental in putting tremendous pressure on Modi and the BJP after the 2002 gujrat mass genocide. Read the article and find out the observations made by them on Syedna and his goons:-





March 2000
Special Report
Syedna’s Sena on rampage

Worshippers of the Golden Calf

(We are reproducing below an article in two parts which was published by Hamara Mahanagar (Hindi) in two parts — on February 16 and 17. Written largely with the eveninger’s Muslim readers in mind, the piece gives a telling account of how the Syedna runs his nasty empire).

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin is neither God nor a Prophet. But his followers believe that if he so decides, the Syedna can gift anyone a ticket to Paradise. This is a matter of faith for the Bohra community and we see no reason to comment on the same. After all, if millions do see god in a clay idol, it is neither a matter of surprise nor criticism if some choose to elevate a flesh–and–bones human being to the status of god.
But when non–Bohra Muslims — who claim to have faith in the one and only God and his Prophet, and who have enormous respect for the first four khalifas (Caliphs) of Islam — start crying themselves hoarse in support of a person who does not subscribe to the essentials of their faith, and who seven years ago had publicly abused the first three Khalifas in his speech leading to the first ever Sunni–Bohra riots, some hard questions need to be raised. What is it that propels them to rise to the defence of someone who is so opposed to their basic believes?
The first question that comes to mind is whether they, too, have accepted the Syedna as their religious head. Or, is it that money–power is at work and that they have prostrated themselves before the Syedna’s wealth just as the followers of Moses had done before the magician Samri’s golden calf? If an answer to these questions can be found, they will reveal the real reasons why so many non–Bohra Muslim leaders revere the Syedna.
The Syedna has kept the entire Bohra community in terror over the past 50 years. Earlier, his sovereignty was limited to his own community. But in the last ten years he has successfully identified and cultivated mercenaries among non–Bohras who play dubious games with other Muslims merely to help maintain the Syedna’s religious empire. Needless to say, such stooges are duly rewarded and they play an important role in buying the loyalty of Urdu newspapers to the Bohra head priest.
Apart from this, the Syedna also commands a team of goons to crush his adversaries. Nearly seven years ago, from a stage in a Bohra mohalla in Mumbai, the Syedna had used foul and abusive language against the wife of the Prophet and the first three khalifas who succeeded him. A moulvi from the Sunni sect who objected to this was thrashed by the Syedna’s henchmen at his prompting and this led to the first ever Sunni–Bohra riot which continued for three days.
In the midst of that conflict, some of the Syedna’s agents from among the Bohras and the Sunni community had approached the owner of an Urdu daily offering a briefcase full of currency notes in lieu of support for the Bohra high priest. But the owner of the daily had to reject the offer since a majority of the daily’s readers were Sunnis and passions were still running high because the Syedna had abused the Prophet’s wife. Judging by the current eagerness of the Urdu papers (from Mumbai) to rush to the Syedna’s rescue, it is difficult to believe that it was the same people who seven years ago had refused the Syedna’s bribe.
To ensure that his paid lackeys continue to sing his tune, the Syedna has set aside a huge fund to benefit prominent non–Bohra Muslims. Whenever the Syedna’s henchmen find that any Muslim person of some standing, journalist or intellectual is in financial difficulty, they approach him at their own initiative to offer assistance. It is through such assistance that they are corrupted and their loyalty assured. All those who are on the Syedna’s side today are those very people who have been beneficiaries of his largesse. Pick up any Urdu paper and you will find it full of statements in the Syedna’s support and not a sentence against him.
This is how the arrangement works: on the Syedna’s birthday every year, a full–page advertisement is released in all Urdu newspapers at double the normal rate. How will such newspapers ever publish a statement critical of the Bohra high priest? It is of course a different matter that it does not cost much to buy the allegiance of Urdu newspapers. Since Rs.20,000–25,000 is all it takes to tie a collar around the necks of the editors or owners of Urdu newspapers, it’s a good deal.
The entire attention of the Syedna and his sycophants remains focussed on buying up non–Bohra Muslim journalists, intellectuals, moulvis and newspapers. After all, that is how the Syedna is able to impress upon politicians that he is not only the religious head of the small community of Bohra Muslims, but he also enjoys the respect of Muslims from other sects too.
To create this impression, on Id Day every year, the Syedna’s agents round up prominent Muslims immediately after the Id prayers and herd them to the Syedna’s mansion (the Prophet of Islam never owned a mansion but this dharamguru resides in one). There, they all reverentially kiss the Syedna’s hands following which each select invitee receives an expensive shawl and a ‘packet’ depending on his assessed worth.
When I was editing an Urdu newspaper, the Syedna’s agents had tried in the beginning to take me, too, to offer my respects to the high priest on Id day. But I told them that I would rather go to the graves of my grandparents after namaaz to pray for them. And that there was no question of my going to pay respects to a person with whom I am in intellectual and ideological disagreement.
As I have written earlier, if the Syedna is indeed a follower of the Prophet, he should lead his life in accordance with his words and deeds. While the Prophet declared an amnesty even for his worst enemies when he entered Mecca as a victor, the Syedna cannot bear a word of censure against himself. What kind of a religious leader is the Syedna who reserves for himself the right to abuse the Prophet’s wife and highly respected first khalifas but who instigates his men to violence the moment anyone dares criticise him?
Prominent Muslims who go to pay their respects to the Syedna on Id day have their photos taken in the company of the high priest. These are then circulated amongst political leaders to impress them with the Syedna’s clout so that they can be kept under fear of the Muslim vote bank.
With the aid of his cronies, the Syedna has virtually turned that part of the posh Malabar Hill locality in Mumbai where he stays into a virtual Vatican City. Each time he travels, his car is preceded and followed by uniformed private security guards on motor–cycles — four in front and four at the rear. The Syedna occupies no government or political post. Who then has given him the authority and privilege to claim such preference on public roads? Or is he above the Constitution? The Syedna is able to avail of all this paraphernalia only on the strength of the vast funds at his disposal and his claim of being a religious head.
For security reasons, no one is permitted on the tarmac at the airports to receive any person unless the VIP in question has been granted special permission by the government. But over two years ago, the then minister for civil aviation, CM Ibrahim issued a special VIP card to the Syedna. His lieutenants can now drive up to the aircraft to receive the high priest. Interestingly, the Syedna contributed Rs10 lakh to a college in Bangalore being built by the same Ibrahim. Put the two things together and there you have the secret of the Syedna’s clout.
Incidentally, Asghar Ali Engineer is not the only one to have been at the receiving end of the Syedna’s wrath. The late Moin Shakir, a Sunni Muslim and a progressive historian from Aurangabad, was one among his many targets. Professor Shakir’s ‘crime’ consisted in the fact that he was one of the members of the Justice Nathwani Commission appointed in 1978 to inquire into the tyrannies of the Syedna and his coterie. There was little that the Syedna could do to Shakir while he was alive, but he sought his revenge after the latter’s death in 1987. At the instigation of the high priest’s henchmen, four months after Moin’s death, some of the Syedna’s paid agents from within the Sunni Muslim community in Aurangabad raised a dispute. Since Shakir was a communist, his body cannot rest in a graveyard for Muslim believers, they claimed. Their demand was that Shakir’s body be dug out from the grave and thrown out. The gathering storm that was deliberately stoked settled only after the kazi of Aurangabad city and the vice–amir of the Jamaat–e–Islami strongly condemned the Syedna–inspired mischief makers, saying, “since Shakir never described himself as a kafir, his faith was a matter between him and Allah; and no one else has any right to sit in judgement on the issue.’ Had the Aurangabad kaazi and the vice–amir of the Jamaat–e–Islami not been true to their calling, the Syedna’s agents in Aurangabad would not have rested till they had thrown the mortal remains of a Muslim scholar like Shakir out of the graveyard.
Religious leaders who play politics in the name of faith are forever insecure about their hold on their flock. Which is why they are always anxious to silence the voice of anyone who criticises or opposes them. Because they are unable to muzzle their opponents in democratic ways, they resort to violence. When even that fails, they deploy the most potent weapon at their disposal — the fatwa. The origin of fatwa politics can be traced back to the Church and the Pope. By the end of the 18th century, the Pope’s fatwa had lost its sting. But the same weapon is now being deployed within the Muslim community as never before.
Whenever the need is felt to malign or marginalise someone, it is declared that he/she is no longer a Muslim. Once such a declaration is made, barely literate and simple–minded Muslims take the mullah’s word on face value without seeking confirmation of the claim. In the past, fatwas have been issued even against people like Sir Sayyed Ahmed Khan and Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, declaring them as ‘mischievous Muslim’, ‘kafir’, ‘atheist’, etc.
The Syedna, too, deploys the fatwa weapon against his critics with great cunning. How potent his weapon is can be gauged from the fact that his agents felt bold enough to use it against an Islamic scholar of the stature of professor Moin Shakir. What can one say of the fact that Aurangabad’s Muslims came close to giving such a mean treatment to a man who wrote more than 10 books on Islamic history and culture.
In the past Engineer, too, has been denounced as a kafir, a person who is anti–Muslim and anti–Quran. Mention the word Engineer before an ordinary Muslim today and he will immediately parrot the charge of his being anti–Islam. Is it not extremely unfortunate that such is their attitude towards a scholar of shariah and fiqh, who has through his books and columns in newspapers repeatedly challenged misinterpretations of the Quran or the Hadith? Because Engineer posed a danger to the mercenary mullahs, they decided that the best way to deal with him was to snap his ties with the average Muslim through resort to fatwa politics. For this reason alone did the professional mullahs dub Engineer un–Islamic.
Unfortunately, by dubbing him as anti–Islam they have cut him off not only from the Bohras but from the larger Muslim community, too. It is of course another matter that those who call him anti–Islam are unable to cite anything from his writings to prove their case. The mullahs and the high priests mislead the simple-minded community of believers in the same measure as they place their trust in such leaders.
Prominent among those who have today chosen to side with the Syedna are the very people who seven years ago had lead a morcha against the same man. The same Syedna who until yesterday was an ‘enemy of Sunnis’ is suddenly being presented today as a sage. It would appear that the Syedna’s gift shawls and ‘packets’ every Id have succeeded in melting the hearts of the Sunni mullahs.
So burdened are the spokespersons of the Ulema Council and the All India Muslim Personal Law Board by the Syedna’s largesse that they have even forgotten the teachings of the Prophet of Islam: “When you are asked to speak the truth, testify even against yourself”. Apart from the Ulema Council and the All-India Personal Law Board, the Syedna also contributes generously to the Aligarh Muslim University. Similarly, at the time of natural calamities, the Syedna makes generous contributions to the relief funds of the governments at the Centre and in the states.
Whenever his own authority is called into question, the Syedna seeks the shelter of the Muslim community. But whenever the Muslim community as a whole is targeted in the form of riots etc., he is quick to distance himself and the Bohras from the rest of the Muslims. Of this there are several examples.
During the 1992–93 riots in Mumbai, when the Shiv Sena had let loose a reign of terror against the Muslim community, the Syedna contacted Bal Thackeray and struck a secret deal. Following this, Thackeray had declared that though Bohras are part of the Muslim community, they are businessmen with whom “we have no dispute”. This way, the Syedna very smartly disassociated himself from all those who were being targeted by the Sena simply because they were Muslims.
The Syedna and his agents have had a long–standing equation with the Shiv Sena. During the Sunni-Bohra riots seven years ago, the city was rife with rumour that Thackeray has sent his sainiks into Bohra mohallas to protect them from the Sunnis. Our readers will recall that on the occasion of his 73rd birthday last month, the Syedna had personally visited the residence of ‘Hinduhridaysamrat’ Bal Thackeray to felicitate him. It should be noted here that the same Syedna, who sees himself as a religious head priest and never goes to meet any political person, saw it fit to visit Thackeray on his birthday.
This can mean one of two things: either the Syedna considers Thackeray to be a more exalted religious authority than himself or that he fears the Sena chief and therefore wants to keep him in good humour. Or, it could mean that Thackeray and the Syedna are old pals. As it is unlikely that the Syedna treats Thackeray as a higher religious authority, it could only mean that he is either the latter’s old pal or that he is scared of him.
Now, if the Syedna is scared of a mere mortal like Thackeray, what kind of a dharam guru is he? But if he is an old friend of the Sena supremo, he should tell us how old their friendship is. Since the 1984 Bhiwandi riots, or since the 1992–93 riots? It is unlikely that the Syedna will answer this question but knowledgeable sources say the friendship between Thackeray and the Syedna is as old as Thackeray’s anti–Muslim politics.
If the Syedna is truly a spiritual person and a high priest, why does he need Thackeray to protect his flock from the Shiv Sainiks ire? If he indeed possesses the spiritual power to issue passports to heaven, here and now, to any person he likes, why does he need goons to deal with an opponent like Engineer? Surely, his spiritual power is more than adequate to deal with people like Engineer! (Sajid Rashid who is currently editor of Hamara Mahanagar (Hindi) was formerly the features editor of Urdu Times).

Sajid Rashid

Humsafar
Posts: 2609
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#11

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:33 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Now did anyone report this issue to the Indian media and machinary ? No point if these facts are lying on this website.
Don't expect others to do it. If you think this should be done then go ahead and do it. A case in point, "Accountability" did not ask whether anybody could verify what "Gulf" was saying about sponsoring Sayedna's helicopter trip. He just went ahead and did it himself (http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=4187). This is the kind of attitude we need. Let's act individually where we can and collectively where possible.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#12

Unread post by accountability » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:56 am

Oz: by posting such comment, you really did a huge disfavour to this wonderful post. Frustration has never led to any success in any movement. Frustration either carries away the passion or results in total surrender. Have a positive attitude, treat it as an integral part of malice, that exists in society and fight it with passion, courage and logic.

Gulf
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#13

Unread post by Gulf » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:49 am

OZ is none other than your favorite AZ

consider It's your diwali gift from AZ , with his re-entry he made your diwali more joyous.. so JAY HO :P

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#14

Unread post by seeker110 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:26 am

All revolutions need blood in the streets,One cannot bring change by prayers alone.When a true muslim sees the atrocities of kothar,its incumbent upon him to rise up and sacrifice life if thats what it takes.This entire family has to be uprooted,the whole lot needs to be destroyed.Pledges to the courts,doua and requests will bear no results.Only guaranty that the next leader stays within the teachings of Islam and decency is cut this evil from its roots.
Allah helps those who help themselves.Does anyone think Moula Ali,Imam Hussain or hazrat Abbas would stand by and watch the miskeen, yateem and beiwa robbed by this idiots.How many court verdicts are acted upon? None that I know of.I am not sure about the rules in Islam but to do nothing would be kufr.

Aftab
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#15

Unread post by Aftab » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:08 pm

This can not go on and on. Yes we need and change we will.

Let us strategise. Let us knock on the doors of every bohra - reformists or not - to let them know that these people are functioning behind a mask of religiosity. They are violating each and every tenants of the glorious quran. Lets get them.

Let us put a simple and effective word or power point document and let us talk to our politicians, representatives, scholars, main stream bohras and any body who will listen.

TRUTH HAS TO TRIUMPH. LET US NOT GET ANGRY - LET US BE FOCUSSED AND DELIVER

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#16

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:29 pm

Br Aftab,

I appreciate your anxiety and the zest to expose kothar's evils but you as well as we all know that the govt., NGO's, taxation authorities and even the gullible bohras are aware of kothar's extravagant lifestyle at the cost of the community at large. As I had mentioned in my other posts, the present day politicians as we all know are a highly corrupted lot and they support anyone who secures a sizeable votebank for themselves no matter how corrupt or evil that person is. The amount of illgotten wealth that kothar has is more then enough to buy any political party. The only medium which can stir the hornest's nest is the media so an effort can be made to carry out a sting operation on the lines of tehelka.com. and then knock the doors of the judiciary which is a ray of hope in the present times.

Bohras are a gullible and fearful lot who have no faith in Allah swt as their faith revolves around burhanudin saab only. They want to have a place in jannat but they dont fear the owner of jannat but rather rely on a piece of paper (ruku chithi) for their guarantee in paradise. Bohras treat Allah's planet as inconsequential but only the bohra kabrastan is a place of importance for them because they are made to believe that this is the only airport from where the flight to jannat takes off.

Bohras are also made to believe that their nikah is invalid and the husband/wife relationship is illegitimate if the nikah qutba is recited by a non bohra muslim whereas no such thing is ever mentioned in the Holy Quran. If a bohra boy and girl are stranded on an island and if they want to get married to avoid a sinful act, I dont know from where will they call a bohra amil to perform their nikah ?

So you see we have to remove the above mentioned basic "fear psychosis" on which kothar thrives.

As you rightly said that truth will triumph because as history proves no oppressor has ever been able to oppress the masses indefinately and Allah swt always crushes the oppressor be it the mighty firaun, namrud or even hitler. "Allah ki chakki dheemi chalti hai lekin bahut baarik peesti hai".

Aftab
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#17

Unread post by Aftab » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:26 pm

ASAK Ghulam Mohammed,

Thank you for your feed back.

I am so motivated with what I see around us. If Obama can become the next president of US, every other obstacle becomes insignificant in its comparison. The only thing that was against Obama was the ignorance of the American people. He beat it hands down. Similarly, Kothar is in power because of the ignorance of the main stream bohras. Bohras are unfortunately not readers and are very reluctant to put their analytical hat. They are very generous in putting their emotional hat. It becomes our duty to educate the bohras as this is a gift given to us by Allahsubanallah to disperse.

So let us learn from Obama. The issue is emancipating bohras from the cruel and ruthless clutches of the Kothar. Encourage them to read the glorious Quran and ask them to analyze whether the Kothar exemplifies the Quran or their deeds are a total contrast to the teachings and the aspirations of it. Obama started slowly by developing critical mass through grass root and simple techniques. We can do it emphatically as we have been shown how it is done. Believe me, it is not difficult. Strategize, start slow but think BIG. Knock; knock on every main stream bohras until the message is made clear. Than wait! The power of the Kothar is from the people and not vice versa as they are told to believe.

What better kick can you get from defeating false hood?

I do not for see many problems from the educated who are ardent followers. These people understand justice, democracy and equality but are unable to differentiate religion from secular thought. Not a problem. We have to engage them in a dialogue that is civil and respectful.

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#18

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:52 am

It is the women of the society who play a big role in bringing a revolution in the religious ideology. The shia faith is an example in history where the women have sacrificed their children to save Islam(shia ideology)

In Bohra community where emotions rule intellect, the emotional women are in tight control of the kothar. A civil/logical dialogue is nearly impossible with them in this scenario. Bohra men may want to change but due to the women of their household they cannot. A Bohra religion presents a "pseudo" materialistic religion which looks very nice to everyone and women are more than happy to follow a religion which can be moulded as per their convenience.

However the thought of educating Bohras about truth is always gud , it may not change them but least it could straighten their deeds and belief according to whatever their believe. Another point to add is "we" have to reform ourselves first in our Akhlaq to impress them.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#19

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:02 am

Understanding and awareness of the present will lead to self-reform, which is so very important towards a better world!

Religion, its ideologies, beliefs, superstitions etc... have only divided people, How long can we stay so stupid? Haven't we evolved??

Aftab
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#20

Unread post by Aftab » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:43 pm

Thank you humble_servant_us & like_minded. Your points are extremely relevant and worth pondering.

humble-servant has raised the issue of the power and the emotions of women. Let us not forgot what happened in Udaipur just 20-30 years ago. Women are ready for a change. They can be tapped and are looking for leadership, talked and explained to. Let us do it. Look, this will take time but we have to take the small baby steps. We can not wait any longer.

Like-minded speaks of evolution. Evolution can not be stopped nor can it tampered, slowed, rejected or what ever. Evolution is not in the control of humans – it controls its own destiny. We have to support it.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#21

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:21 pm

humble_servant_us wrote:In Bohra community where emotions rule intellect, the emotional women are in tight control of the kothar. A civil/logical dialogue is nearly impossible with them in this scenario. Bohra men may want to change but due to the women of their household they cannot.
I fully agree with you and what better proof then the above that this kothar is full of satans. This is the oldest and most effective trick of the satan which dates back to the first humans on earth i.e. Prophet Adam a.s. When satan couldnt mislead Adam a.s., he ultimately provoked Adam a.s.'s wife Hawa and only then he succeeded in his evil plan. Same was the case with Prophet Ibrahim a.s. when the satan in order to mislead Ibrahim a.s., tried to provoke Hajra a.s. but here he failed. So you see, women are more prone to the emotional tactics then men and due to this kothar succeeds in their evil gameplan.

Aftab
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#22

Unread post by Aftab » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:26 am

So you see, women are more prone to the emotional tactics then men and due to this kothar succeeds in their evil gameplan.

Br. Ghulam muhammed,

Women have been gifted with more emotions because of the role they have to play in society. That does not mean that they are easily swayed. Historically, men have swayed as well and from your own two examples of Hawa and Hajra, it is a fifty fifty split. Women have been endowed with extra ordinary characteristics as well. So let us use gal power.

Here is Asghar Vasanwala's tribute to Barak Obama, the 44th president of USA.

He has recited Iqbals verse

HazaoN sal Nargis apni be-noori pe roti hai
For thousands of yeas Narcissus grieves its blindness
BaDi mushkil se hota hai, chaman meiN, didavar paida
Only, once in a blue moon, the garden finds some one with vision

(Though the flower of narcissus (Nargis) looks like an eye, it has no vision. For centuries our garden, this world, produces people with eyes; but, like Nargis they have no vision. Only, once in blue moon someone with vision surfaces)


So keeping in mind of this achievement,

Let us start a world wide movement. We need volunteers from all over the globe. This is a core group that will strategies in bringing change.

Some core values:

1. The aim is to bring change and curtail excesses and not belief systems. It is meant to foster a road for civil dialogue
2. Does not matter whether you are a reformist or not. The idea is to propel change.
3. Through email, mikongo (free internet teleconferencing) we hold meetings.
4. Once the core group is finalized, we allow the administrator to reveal our emails to each other.
5. We develop small teams in our geographic areas and chart out a plan of action.
6. Based on the plan we canvass
7. We hold regular meetings and discuss and correct our plan based on the area representatives feed back.

These are my initial suggestions. Let us discuss. Any takers.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#23

Unread post by accountability » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:42 am

Good Suggestions. Let us work on it.

The most important thing is, to make ordinary bohras understand that religion does not dictate you to obey the amil, and whatever he says. If we go bottom up, then we will have a greater chance to bring about changes that we are striving for.

Humsafar
Posts: 2609
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#24

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:11 pm

Good ideas, great initiative Aftab. Count me in.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#25

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:27 pm

There is the story of an eagle which had forgotten its true power due to the upbringing and its surroundings till one fine day it realised its true potential and the powers that were granted to him by Allah swt. The case of the gullible bohras is quite similar and to find out its similarities, read the story below:-

Eagle Story is about a wounded Eaglet who was rescued by a kind farmer.

Farmer found Eaglet in one of his fields, and so took him home, tended to his wounds, and then placed him outside in the barnyard to recover.Strangely enough, Eaglet soon adapted to the habits of all the barnyard chickens. Eaglet learned to walk and cluck like chickens. Eaglet learned to drink from a trough and peck the dirt for food, and for many years Eaglet peacefully resigned himself to this new life on the farm and grew up to become a beautiful Eagle.

But then one day, one of the farmer's friends spotted the Eagle and asked, "Why in the world is that Eagle acting like a Chicken?" The farmer told him what had happened, yet the friend could hardly accept the situation.

"It's just not right," said the friend. "The Almighty Creator made that Eagle to soar in the sky, not scavenge in the barnyard!" So he picked up the unsuspecting Eagle, climbed onto a nearby fence post, and tossed him into the air. But the confused Eagle just fell back to earth and scurried off in search of his feathered friends.

Undaunted, the friend then grabbed the Eagle and climbed to the top of the barn. As he heaved him off the roof, the Eagle made a few halfhearted squawks and flaps before falling into a bale of hay. After shaking his head a few times, the Eagle then made himself comfortable and began mindlessly pecking at pieces of straw.

The friend went home that night dejected, and could barely sleep as he remembered the sight of those powerful talons caked with barnyard mud. He couldn't bear the thought, so the very next day, he headed back to the farm for another try. This time he carried the Eagle to the top of a nearby mountain where the sky unfolded in a limitless horizon.

He looked into the Eagle's eyes and cried out, "Don't you understand? You weren't made to live like a Chicken! Why would you want to stay down here when you were born for the sky?" As the man held the confused Eagle aloft, he made sure the Eagle was facing into the brilliant light of the setting sun. Then he powerfully heaved the bird into the sky, and this time the Eagle opened his wings, looked at the sun, caught the updraft rising from the valley, and disappeared into the clouds of sky.

MORAL : Do you know that we, too, were born for some high purpose in this life? The Almighty Creator has called us to live in the heights, yet too many of us have huddled together in the barnyard, not struggling to search for our own Islamic identity and the purpose of Islamic life?

Aftab
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#26

Unread post by Aftab » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:54 pm

Great Story ghulam muhammed. Yes we can

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#27

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:42 am

I have come across some types of people in the bohra society

A) Those who have firm belief in Sayedna and his system. You cannot have a dialogue with them, because the moment you try to say something contrary to their belief you will be branded as anti-sayedna and rejected immediately. These should be left as it.

B)Those who have belief in Sayedna but understand that the system is wrong. These people generally are those who follow religion as per convenience and are happy following Ramzan and Muharram rituals. They do not think much about religion.
When you talk to them about religion they will listen to you with intrest but a change is difficult for them to bring.

C)Those who do not have belief in Sayedna nor his system but due to social pressures cannot change the society. In this case if the person has a religious inclination he would have reformed his belief (like most of us on the board), if someone doesn't have any religious affinity he doesn't care for anything.

B and C class people are the ones who can give you an audience.

To start with one should focus on their families first, followed by relatives and friends.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#28

Unread post by like_minded » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:58 am

A very valid point made by humble.

Count me in.. Lets get started.

abbas_mash
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#29

Unread post by abbas_mash » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:48 am

As-Salaam,

Though I'm a member of this forum from quite some time, I generally visit this site if I managed to get some time.
From last few days I am reading several articles on this site and happy to see that there are more n more bohras coming forward for the cause of Reform.
The first and foremost thing I must say here is "Start Reform within you first " and then move forward to Reform the SOCIETY.

I'm not sure if all member discussing on this Particular topic are Reformist or they/their family still belong to Othro Bohras group but they are here to support the Reformist.
If that is the case then time has come that start "Reform within urself".

A strongly agrees with Bro Humble.., Aftab, Ghulam Mohd..... on their views.

I had stayed in several cities of India, including Mumbai, Hyderabad, Bangalore, and I must admit that I have lots of friends who are still in Ortho Bohras groups. And as far as I know they are mostly from B & C group. The important point is how to convince them.

We need to focus on 'How we can invite them toward Reform?"
1.) Let hold a healthy discussion between them and us? For that we need to have some knowledge of authentic Bohra Literature. I believe there are lot of people on this Forum who can help for the above cause.
2.) We need to stop abusing them? The more we abuse them they will start going far from the Reform.
3.) This is specially for all those reformist people who are staying in place where there is small or no Reformist Family or Population. I think we need to refrain from going to their Mosque/Jamatkhana during ramazan & moharam. I'm doing that from last so many years.
The list can go on. Feel free to send in your suggestions

Regards
-Abbas

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Inside Saifee Mahal

#30

Unread post by S. Insaf » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:08 am

Brother abbas_mash
Welcome to the board!
I have seen a large numbers of Dawoodi Bohras from other side of the divide who are unhappy with the present exploitative and repressive regime. I have seen many openly criticizing Amils and Ayans. But I know that does not hurt the regime. What hurts them most is if some tries to attack on their easy flowing in wealth. In my earlier posts I have discussed how we can delay and ultimately avoid paying them. Among the taxes imposed on Bohras, only Zakat is Quranic and hence obligatory (Farz). All other taxes like Fitra, Sabil, Nazar Mukam, Haqqun Nafs, Najwa, Kadambosi, Vadhavni, Araz, Tashreef Awari, Salams for Dai, Mazoon Mukasir, Imam, at the time of Nikah, Darees, Haj, Ziyafat, Araz, Ikram, Talakki, Salgirah, Vaiz etc. are not compulsory. Even Zakat has to be paid to the eight deserving persons directly as per Quranic instructions.
Similarly ID cards or no ID cards they can not stop your entry in the Mosques, Dargahs, graveyards etc. especially if these are Wakf properties. There is no provision of "Wajebat" at all in our Dawoodi Bohra faith and Islam. You will not find these words like Wajebat, Baraat, Misaq for Dai and Raza in the history of our Imams or earlier Dais. These are all their creations to enslave and loot the gullible Bohras. They can not declare "Baraat" (Social Boycott or Excommunication) against any one for exercising civil rights.
The power of Kothar can be checkmated only if more and more people refuse to pay even a single paisa and start challenging them in law agencies like police and courts.