Re-evaluating the Namaz

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Muslim First
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#91

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:11 am

From the mouth of Ismailis

Same link
He can't tell people that he has the noor of ALLAH in him. They won't believe him. People have hard time believing that he's a direct descendant of prophet mohamed. He has to do these things like what Kmaherali said. We should do what he tells us to do not to do what he does.
Can't tell? He is fake. HI he not?

They won't believe him.

Damn right he is fake

People have hard time believing that he's a direct descendant of prophet mohamed.

That is correct

We should do what he tells us to do not to do what he does.

He does not tell you much except give me money, give give

znanwalla
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#92

Unread post by znanwalla » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:08 pm

STARTLING CONFESSIONS
November 29th, 2007
STARTLING CONFESSIONS

Let us first examine the personal confessions of some of the most ancient and foremost of YOUR “Imams” (’Canonical’ authorities) who narrated History, Hadith (Prophetic sayings and traditions), laid down Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) and did Tafseer (explanation) of the Quran...It is clear that you are depending on what Maherally is saying (as per your posting)...Maherallay does NOt know the Quran...he follows MIR BOSE...so one can now imagine what you are worth? and what Islam you follow?....so lets hear what your views are on what your own scholars are saying about your own first before talking about others...

IMAM RAZI’S HORRIBLE CONFESSION: Most Muslims have heard of one of the most ancient and famous Tafseer-e-Kabeer (The Great Exposition of the Quran) by Imam Fakhruddin Razi. This Tafseer is one of the tops being followed by our Mullahs till this day. After writing his 300 volumes, ‘the great and authoritative’ Imam confesses: “All my intellectual and supposedly logical statements in the explanation of the Quran turned out to be lame. All the explanations of the Quran done by the so-called Imams (Tabari, Zamakhshari, Ibne Kathir, Bukhari, Muslim etc) are misguided and misleading. All of us were the tools of Satan. Our souls were polluted by our physical desires. All our endeavors and works of this world promise to bring upon us nothing but eternal humiliation, torture and doom.”
Hadith-Ul-Quran by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi, 1954 edition, Pg 190.


IMAM TABARI’S STRANGE CONFESSION: “I am writing this book as I hear from the narrators. If anything sounds absurd, I should not be blamed or held accountable. The responsibility of all blunders rests squarely on the shoulders of those who have narrated these stories to me.” So, Tabari wrote nothing but hearsay. Mazhabi Dastanain Aur Un Ki Haqeeqat by Allama Habib-ur-Rahman Siddiqui Kandhalwi, Ar-Rahman Publishing Trust, Karachi


Tareekhil Umam Wal Mulook (The History of Nations and Kings) popularly called “The Mother of All Histories” is the first ever “History of Islam” written by ‘Imam’ Tabari (839-923 CE) at the junction of the third and fourth century AH. He died in 310 AH, three centuries after the exalted Prophet. What were his sources? Not a scrap of paper! “He told me this who heard it from him who heard it from her and she heard it from so and so,” and so on. By compiling his 13 Volume History and his 30 Volume Exposition of the Quran under royal patronage, Tabari became the Super Imam. The later historians until this day have persisted in following the trails of the Super Imam. Imam Zahri Wa Imam Tabari, Tasweer Ka Doosra Rukh by Muhaddith-ul-‘Asr Jaame’-ul-‘Uloom Hazrat Allama Tamanna Imadi Phulwari, Ar-Rahman Publishing Trust, Karachi


IMAM IBN KATHIR’S CONFESSION: “Had Ibn Jareer Tabari not recorded the strange reports, I would never have done so.” Tafseer Ibn Katheer, Khilaafat-e-Mu’awiya-o-Yazeed, Mahmood Ahmed Abbasi


IMAM AHMAD BIN HANBAL’S CHASTISEMENT: The sincere Islamic scholar of the 20th century, Allama Shibli Na’mani, on page 27 Vol 1 of his Seeratun Nabi has given a startling quote of the ancient Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (d. 241 AH), “Three kinds of books are absolutely unfounded, Maghazi, Malahem and Tafseer.” (The Prophet’s Battles, Dreams & Prophecies and Expositions of the Quran.)


HISTORIAN IBN KHALDOON’S THRASHING: “The Muslim historians have made a mockery of history by filling it with fabrications and senseless lies.” Muqaddama Tareekh Ibn Khaldoon. [Ibn Khaldoon then himself makes a mockery of history. Allama Sir Muhammad Iqbal points out that there is nothing worth reading in his book but the preface, Muqaddama. Dr. Shabbir respectfully agrees.]


SHAH ABDUL AZIZ’S CRITIQUE: “Several pages of Ibn Khaldoon’s History have been deliberately removed since the earliest times. These pages had questioned the most critical juncture of Islamic history, that is, the Emirate of Yazeed and the Fiction of Karbala. Even the modern editions admit in the side-notes and foot-notes that those pages have been mysteriously missing from the ancient original book.” Khilaafat-e-Mu’awiya-o-Yazeed, by Mahmood Ahmed Abbasi


SHAH WALIULLAH’S CHASTISEMENT: “Imam Jalaluddin Sayyuti’s Tarikh-ul-Khulafa is the prime example of how our Historians, Muhaddithin and Mufassirin, each have played like Haatib-il-Lail (The man who collects firewood at night not knowing which piece is good and which one is bad).” Hujjatullah-il-Baalighah


IMAM RAGHIB’S PROTEST: Tabari, Waqidi, Mas’oodi, Sayyuti wrote any reports they heard from anyone. Moreover, figures such as Abu Mukhnif, Lut bin Yahya and Muhammad bin Saaeb Kalbi never existed. The civil wars within Islam during the times of Hazraat Ali, Mu’awiya and Yazeed have been made up under these fictitious names (Mukhnif, Lut $ Kalbi). These names have been concocted and the narratives in their names have all been invented by one man, the Zoroastrian “Imam” Tabari bin Rustam (not Tabari bin Yazeed). Think and reflect: If civil wars of such intensity were taking place within early Islam, how could Muslims continue to expand their benevolent rule in nearly half the known world of the time? Ajaaib-it-Tareekh by Yaqoot Hamdi.

Wow! No wonder you follow Maherally now ! no other choice left for you guys from the Pit Latrines huh !

zn

anajmi
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#93

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:09 pm

Br. Muslim First,

The Ismailis will now play diversionary tactics. The bottom line is that the actions of the Imam prove what has been stated about him in the quran - that he is foolish and unjust. The prophet asked us to follow Islam like as he did and the Hazar Imam asks his follower to do the opposite of what he does. Ismailism is a big joke.

znanwalla
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#94

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:45 am

In Islam if anyone plays the card of "division" then it is your cult !

"Blessed are those who can Give without Remembering
and Take without Forgetting".......

Allah (SWT) has stated clearly about the "return of Imanat (trust)...and so those like you who argue like some stray latrine folks ,about it or don't realize what the Quran says or prescribes....or wish to misconstrue who the "unjust and ignorant" on purpose are the miscreants ! Not the people of the Talim as they know and have the Quran which you don't have and that is why Allah (SWT) challenged people like you to bring a like thereof even of some Suras and so when your script writers tried to creat the Quran, they failed miserably in what they did and the results are in front of the world to see and evaluate !

The fact is that you all are screwed up.....JUST LIKE YOUR OWN SCRIPT WRITERS !

If a man like you brought me or us a tray of mangoes and I or we refused them , what would happen to the mangoes? They would remain with you only as the low level "giver"....and they would rot !

And it is just so with you folks too and your brand of Islam that you are trying so hard to impose on others...It will only remain with you in the end...... so if you offer expressions of a sorrowful whining based on Maherally's confabulations , it will become "dear" to you only....the people of "talim" care two hoots and will continue to treat you folks with the contempt you deserve !

Find expression for a joy for others and in humanity and in the Islam of the prophet which is the real islam , and you will intensify its ecstasy...now this is what your brand of Islam lacks....truly unfortunate pal !

What is a soul? Its like the electricity - its a force that can light a room.....what has been given to the human kind? the Intellect and which is not in conflict with faith.....your souls are covered with gunk !

The proof that the human being is the noblest of all creatures is that no other creature has ever denied it ...and so the "Imanat" given to mankind, is the defining point between someone who is just and trustworthy or someone who is unjust and foolish ...and this is what you have failed to learn or grasp...

YA AYYUHAL LAZEENA AMANOO LA TAKHOONUL LAHA WER RASOOLA !

WA TAKHOONU AMANAATIKUM WA ANTUM TA'LAMOON

FAMAN -NAKATHA, FA IN NAMA, YANKUTHU ALA NAFSIHI

Please go and learn Quran sufficiently and then you will better understand Allah's Final message to mankind ! depending on Maherally who himself does not know anything, will lead you in the wrong direction....towards the Pit fires of hell !

WA MAN AUFA BIMA A'HADA ALAI-HULLAHU FA SA YU'TEEHI AJRAN AZEEMA !


zn

znanwalla
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#95

Unread post by znanwalla » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:54 am

Najmi,

If Ismailism is the biggest Joke then you would have been able to answer our questions !

You haven't answered most of what we have asked? if your text of the Quran says that you can only marry upto 4 wives, why have you not been able to explain why the Prophet married 14 wives and not stay within the prescriptions of the Quran ? now did the prophet also do opposite of what he preached? Yes or No ?...let us hear your answer pal?

if Umar told you to make your wives move around naked in the house so that they don't go out, is that what the Quran has also preached you? or did the Prophet say so? or did Umar also preach the opposite of what he did impose on his own wives ? or when you guys are told to expect "pure" wives in the heavens and virgins too, then are you also preaching its opposite here through implication that your own women are "impure" and lacking virginity - hence lewd? is that the type of examples you set on everyone?.....what brand of cultish islam you are trying to propagate? nonsense !......go back to your Pit Latrine riding MF scooters from the slums you came from.....don't waste people's time with your hyperbole.....or when you visit the brothels, are you preaching that any other women is also your own even if , by definition, she may be your sister or mother?.......kindly explain huh?...don't just sit their and bark.....zn

anajmi
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#96

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:12 am

Actually, I refuse to answer anything you ask. You are not getting any answers from me till I get a committment from you that you will answer every question I ask (I want to see more fabrications from your lying mouth) and every time you answer, I will prove that you are a lying joker. HAHAHAHA!!

anajmi
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#97

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:14 am

Allah (SWT) has stated clearly about the "return of Imanat (trust)...
Where has Allah stated this? In the hidden quran? I haven't seen it.

anajmi
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#98

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:15 am

YA AYYUHAL LAZEENA AMANOO LA TAKHOONUL LAHA WER RASOOLA !

WA TAKHOONU AMANAATIKUM WA ANTUM TA'LAMOON

FAMAN -NAKATHA, FA IN NAMA, YANKUTHU ALA NAFSIHI
Where is this from? The hidden quran? You lying fabricator!!

anajmi
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#99

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:16 am

Please go and learn Quran sufficiently
But your Hazar Imam has hidden the quran and therefore has been cursed by Allah. I do not have this hidden quran so how can I learn it sufficiently? May Allah punish those who hide his message from others.

znanwalla
Posts: 974
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#100

Unread post by znanwalla » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:28 pm

Najmi....Now if you don't find this in your Interpolated books then that is one more evidence that you are holding fabrications and not holding Allah's Book !....now ofcourse some of the scribes had already died by the time your ancestors decided to compile their own "Quran"....some mushuf pages goats had eaten away - so it is quite understandable !and .....so what you are saying to me is nothing unusual - we all know what you are worth !.....and I am not going to tell you which sura to look....go and do your own research but it is clear you guys do not know the Quran....zn

anajmi
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#101

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:32 pm

But you only said that I don't have Allah's book. So how can I find the fabrications that you quote in the book that I don't have? What a joker. HAHAHAHAHA

znanwalla
Posts: 974
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#102

Unread post by znanwalla » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:35 pm

I am quoting authentic verses - not from your fabrications and if you can't find them then it is clear....I am right ! you do not have Allah's Book....I told you that the Sh'ias have it....You don't !...this proves it also.....maybe the goat is enjoying the pages from yours !!!...that is why you nowadays gobble entire goats !!!..zn

anajmi
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#103

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:39 pm

How can I have the book that is hidden? Didn't you say it was hidden? So how can I find that which is in a book that is hidden? And since I cannot corroborate anything you say, you are a liar and a fabricator. First you say I don't have the book, then you say that since I cannot find fabrications that you post that means I don't have the book. I have you chasing your own tail. HAHAHAHAHA!!

Authentic verses were not revealed to Shakir in English. HAHAHAHAHAH!!!

znanwalla
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#104

Unread post by znanwalla » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:08 pm

It is hidden perhaps from pagans like you - not from everyone ! did i not say this clearly? I did ! Now why you don't have the Quran? that too is clear !....you are in reality not part of the Umma of Muhamad ! if you were then the Al Kitab ! Allah's Book would not be "hidden".....did I not say openly that Sh'ias have it? I did ! did I not say you don't have it ? I did ! .....how much more clear can I be? now if non-believers don't have it then they are not supposed to have it as they are non-believers ! it is so simple !....zn

znanwalla
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#105

Unread post by znanwalla » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:22 pm

Najmi,

If as you say Quran wasn't "revealed" to Shakir then why are you reading from the Amazon ? or Pooya? or Picktall? or whatever? this is the point I have been making to you all along and which you have been denying and raving and ranting..... now you are conceding....thus based on your own argument, the scribes who were enlisted by your Caliphs to create a book and call it the Quran is obviously not the Book of Allah because Quran wasn't either revealed to them plus half the scribes had died in battles and some pages had even been eaten away....and so now you agree finally that they all concocted based on hearsay only....so thank you for accepting the truth now and finally !

You have not been able to also tell us upto now:

To which school of thought did the Muslims belong to after the fourth caliph [H. Ali a.s.] until the appearance of the first Sunni Imam?

How and from where did the four Ahlul Sunnah Imams gain their knowledge, information and the interpretation of the Holy Qur’an and the ahadith of the H. Prophet (S) to derive authority and give rulings on religious matters?

If the traditions of the H. Prophet (S) were good enough for that matter, then why is there divergence and differences of opinion in Namaz or salat alone among the four schools of thought each claiming to be authentic in it's own right? It must be noted that none of these four Imams were present during the time of the H. Prophet (S), nor had anyone of them met any of the Sahaba or the Companion of the H. Prophet (S). All these Imams appeared well over a century after the H. Prophet (S) of Islam.

Why haven't you provided answers to the above questions? don't you have any answers?

zn

anajmi
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#106

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:32 pm

I am not reading from "the Amazon" you moron. So you agree that quran wasn't revealed to Shakir or Pooya or Pickthall and you still quote from them? You proved one more time that you are a liar and fabricator!!

I have all the answers but they are not for you. I will never give a straight reply to your post as I am not interested in any discussion with you. I am only interested in taking you for a roller coaster ride and prove to people that you are a veggie HAHAHAHAHAH!!

znanwalla
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#107

Unread post by znanwalla » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:00 pm

Najmi,

why are you going back and forth....many times over and over you have said that you follow amazaon...infact just a short while ago you have said so....now you are full of contradictions....poor fellow ! obsessed with passion of the cult you belong to....you are following hearsay as opposed to actual revelations of Allah to the prophet !.....how sad?...zn

znanwalla
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#108

Unread post by znanwalla » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:01 pm

When you were lying and manipulating I showed the people that even your own texts do not match with what you are concocting....so now who is a moron? the guy from the latrine !

now make sure your veggies move around naked at home....Umar loves that huh !

zn

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#109

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:29 pm

Br. Salim

There is no need to Re-evaluating or evaluating Salah..

Salah is established practice since the days of our Prophet.

1.285 +/- Billion Muslim agree that 5 time Salah is a Fird. They might combine some prayers into 3 Period or they might have variant hand positions, but act of Salah is same.

Fajr is 2 Rakat Fird, Zuhr is 4 Rakat Fird, Asr is 4 Rakat Fird, Magrib is 3 Rakat Fird and Isha is 4 Rakat Fird. There are additional Emphasized Sunna, Non Emphasized sunna, Nafl, Witr and Night prayers (Tahajjud or Qiyam e Lail) which you may do to acquire more Thawab or do not do and suffer no harm. Salah takes precedence over Dhikra.

It is useless to debate this point. Lot of posts has been posted on this site and it will be waste of storage space to go on arguing about it.
What kind of b.s. is this. According to ahadith of Bukhari, your demi-God, the Prophet of Allah, always shortened and lengthened prayers, based on who the congregants were, i.e. if there were women and children and elderly, prayers were shortened. Prayers were also recited early and later depending on the weather. Want to see ahadith? What you are quoting is all your Mullah made. Prophet himself used to pray lying down, standing up, etc. and as Salim has quoted, it is also in the Qur'an. There is fluidity in the religion taught by the Prophet. What you are quoting is "this or else". This is not what the Prophet taught. Salim is right! You are wrong!

Billion Muslims may agree ...crap, they also agree that to kill Jews and Christians is prescribed in the Qur'an. That is a lot of bull. Billions of Muslim also agree that they should not help the millions of Palestinians roaming the deserts, but they should run to kill Jews, Christians and any Muslims who do not pray the way they do. Billions agree that to marry a nine year old is valid because the Prophet had done so! These are not Muslims, these are Jahaliyas of our time. These are the hypocrites.

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#110

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:41 pm

Can't tell? He is fake. HI he not?

They won't believe him.

Damn right he is fake

People have hard time believing that he's a direct descendant of prophet mohamed.

That is correct

We should do what he tells us to do not to do what he does.

He does not tell you much except give me money, give give
You MFr are the biggest fake on earth. Hazar Imam is real, but you would love to read what some ignorant Ismailis write, or what maherally writes, but you will not pick up a book and read what the facts are. It has been proven even by your Saudis that Hazar Imam is the direct descendant of the Prophet. So as usual you are nothing but an MFr.
People have hard time believing that he's a direct descendant of prophet mohamed.
Only Jahaliyas like you have a hard time believing it. Abu Jahal (the idiot's name was Jahal), was a Jahaliya and till his dying day he did not believe in the Prophet. It is the same with you guys!

As for your quote: He does not tell you much except give me money, give give

Prove it! Where and when did he say give me money, give, give.

What we give is what is his right as an Imam to receive, as was the Prophet's right to receive. At least we see where our money goes, where does your go? Billions of Muslims and nothing to show except millions wandering the deserts!

znanwalla
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#111

Unread post by znanwalla » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:52 am

MF...money ! money ! money ! you bark.....then explain what God says here....

" who would lend Me a goodly loan and he would multiply it for him and for him will be a rich reward.." (57:11).......so what "loan" ? what reward? and why "he" and not "1" as HIS First Person Plural ? who is he? who is WE? who is US ? why is Allah making reference to a third party?..why not just "1"?

The Quran also says...

"...And let not those who possess dignity and ease among you swear NOT to give to the near of kin and to the needy, and to fugitives for the cause of Allah. ....so how can you convince anyone here that the "near of Kin" does not also include Prophet's family or relatives?

"Let them forgive and show indulgence. Yearn ye not that Allah may forgive you ? Allah is Forgiving, Merciful" (Sura Nur)...

So why do not give Ushr? Khums? why not?....God says that you should give fifth part to HIM and His Prophet and the Prophet's relatives, orphans and wayfarers

Now, the problem with the interpretation of the text is that the word
"Ghaneema -- Booty" is interpreted by the Sunnis as that wealth collected
as part of a war. ...ok so these islamic wars were over some 1400 years ago....then are you saying that the ayats relevant to this subject are now abrogated? so then is the Quran the eternal word of God? or is it time bound only? do please explain huh?

Sunni interpretation is not an accurate interpretation of the Arabic
word.

The Semitic languages, which Arabic belongs to, are based on the
verb form, not the noun form.

As such, the translation of the word
"Ghaneema" is not all that accurate when the word "booty" is used.

in conformity with Allah's (SWT) and His (SWT) Messenger's
(PBUH&HF) one ought to pay 20% (a fifth) of their wealth at the end of every
year.

In addition, the grammatical usage of the word "Ghaneema" in Arabic,
means that certain things that a believer acquires by way of a profit from a legitimate business deal or otherwise,is considered a "Ghaneema," and becomes subject to the laws and regulations
thereof.


After the departure of the prophet from this world none of the muslims came forward to say that their obligation to pay Khums,Ushr,Zakat,Sadaqa had ceased!

They continued to pay this to the officers who had been appointed by the successors

"Ushr: The Qur'an says :

"O Believers ! expend in Allah's way the best portion of the wealth you have earned and of what We have produced for you from the earth." (2 : 267)

And elsewhere :

"...and give away Allah's due at the harvest time."  (6 :141)

The Quran Commentators are agreed that this refers to 'Ushr

The details of the Khums are *VERY* complex.

The Sunnis have rejected paying KHUMS, EVEN though it is in the Book of Allah
(SWT).

Furthermore, it is narrated in Sahih al-Bukhari, v2, pp 136-137
that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) stated that any wealth that was buried under
the ground in the Days of Ignorance (Ayam al-Jahiliyah) is subject to al-
Khums.

Moreover, Ibn Abbas, THE most trusted narrator of hadith in the
eyes of the Sunnis, said that pearls extracted from the ocean are subject
to the Khums also.

Abu Siyadah has reported : “I went to the Holy Prophet and said, ‘O Prophet of Allah ! I have kept bees whereupon he instructed me to give away a part thereof”.

On the basis of these traditions, the Hanafites, the Ahl alHadith, Ahmad bin Hanba, Umar bin ‘Abdul ‘Aziz and others are in agreement that one is subject to ‘Ushr. Imam Shafei in one of his sayings has expressed a similar opinion, and Ibn ‘Umar and Ibn ‘Abbas from among the Companions have also supported the same view....so MF what are you arguing unduly about? Read your own books first and the truth that is being suppressed for you folks !

It is apparent, that the Khums is NOT restricted to a "booty from a war", as
the Sunnis claim; rather, it extends to all of the above issues.

If a truly Sunni Islamic nation was to be established today, it would fall short
of fulfilling its financial obligations because it depends on the Zakat
only, which is only 2.5% of one's wealth.

Realistically speaking, can an
Islamic nation, as the Sunnis contend, survive on 2.5% a year from the
Muslim Ummah? Can it truly build an infrastructure that would support the
masses? Can it build hospitals, schools, highways, etc...? No, it CANNOT,
because 2.5% is NOT enough, not by ANY stretch of the imagination.

They must return the proper "amanat" and not just 2.5% !

Additionally I have elsewhere in other posts offered more information on this subject....Mf, You have not even been able to explain the basis of paying just 2.5% Sadaqa....sometimes I am just wondering how you practice Islam....even ADL is not one of your Pillars....the less you speak the better, it seems.....zn

Muslim First
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#112

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:30 am


znanwalla
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#113

Unread post by znanwalla » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:02 am

In the verse of Khums "ghanimtum" has been used which has
been translated as 'you acquire'.

As explained it means, 'certain items which a person acquires as wealth'. What are these certain items?

According to the hadiths of the Ahl al-Bayt Imams (which all Sh'ias follow), the items that are
eligible for Khums are seven, and they are

1. the profit or the surplus of income
2. the legitimate wealth which is mixed with the illegitimate
wealth
3. mines and minerals
4. the precious stones obtained from sea by diving
5. treasures
6. the land which a dhimmi kafir buys from a muslim
7. the spoils of war.

Whereas the Sunnis who do not follow the Prophet's family but their own Mullahs who interpret this as payable only for booty and yet these booty wars ended 1400 years and so maybe the ayat for them is abrogated now ....maybe the Quran for them is also time bound partially as perhaps God did not get it right the first time and so mankind in their fold feel some ayats of the Quran need to be abrogated by them....zn

znanwalla
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Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#114

Unread post by znanwalla » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:07 am

There are some people who interpret the word ghanimtum as 'whatever
of a thing that you acquire as spoils of war', thus confining the
obligation of khums to the spoils of war only. The interpretation is based
on ignorance of

* the Arabic langauage
* the history of khums
* the Islamic laws
* and the interpretation of the Quran

Please bear in mind that the word ghanimtum has been derived from al-
ghanimah.


=================================
The meaning of the word Ghanimtum
=================================
The famous Arabic dictionary of al-Munjid (Father Louis Maluf of Beirut)
states, al-ghanim and al-ghanimah means

* what is taken from the fighting enemies by force
* all earnings generally

Furthermore the saying "al-ghunm bil ghurm" means that profit stands
against expenses, i.e, the owner is the sole proprieter of the profit and
nobody shares it with him, therefore only he bears all the expenses and
risk.

For the readers satisfaction, they are also encouraged to look up
dictionaries like Lisan al-Arab and al-Qamus.

This implies that in the Arabic langauge ' al-ghanimah ' has two meanings,
one is the spoils of war, and the other is profit.

The above quoted proverb
also proves profit is not an uncommon meaning.

When a word in the Quran can
interpreted in more than one way, it is incumbent upon the muslims to seek
guidance from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) and the Ahl al-Bayt.

====================

znanwalla
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#115

Unread post by znanwalla » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:09 am

The History of Khums
====================
Khums is one of those things which were introduced by Abdul Muttalib (RA)
the grandfather of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and it continued in Islam when it
was revealed in Quran.

Acting upon a command of God given to him in his
dream, when Abdul Muttalib rediscovered the well of Zamzam, he found in it
many valuable things that were buried in it very remote past by the
Ismailites when they feared that their enemies would usurp them.

When Abdul
Muttalib found that buried treasure, he gave away one fifth ( literally
khums ) in the way of God and kept the remaining four fifth to himself.

Then it became a custom in his family to and after the Hijrah of the
Prophet (PBUH&HF) the same system was incorporated in Islam.

Thus the first
khums was not given from the spoils of war, but from a buried treasure
(which is one of the seven items eligible for khums ).

znanwalla
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#116

Unread post by znanwalla » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:13 am

The Islamic Laws
================
Not a single Islamic school confines the meaning of ghanimah to the spoils
of war. In addition to the spoils of war the following items are subjected
to khums

* minerals: eligible in the Hanafi and the Shia
* buried treasure: eligible for all the muslims.

As already mentioned earlier, the interpretation of the Quran must be based
on the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt. The word ghanimah in the verse under
discussion has been clearly interpreted as "the earned profit" (al-
fa'idatul muktasabah) by Sh'ia Imams.


=====================
Some Sunni References
=====================
To conclude, we can say that the word ghanima was never treated as being
confined to the spoils of war by any Islamic school; and as far as our
Imams are concerned, it meant many things besides the spoils of war right
from the day of Imam Ali ( peace be upon him ), as many authentic
traditions show.

What has been quoted above is substantiated from the practice of the Holy
Prophet (PBUH&HF) as well.

For example when the Prophet (PBUH&HF) sent Amr
bin Hazm to Yemen, he wrote instructions in which, among many other things,
he says ' ... to gather khums of Allah from the gains [ of Yemenis ].
Please refer to

* Ibn Khaldun, Tarikh Volume 2 part II p54 ( Beirut 1971 )
* Ibn Kathir, al-Bidayah wan Nihayah Volume 5 p76-77 ( Beirut 1966 )
* Ibn Hisham, Sirah Volume 4 p179 ( Beirut 1975 )

And when the tribe of Bani Kilal of Yemen sent Khums to the Prophet, the
later acknowledges it by saying, ' Your messenger has returned and you have
paid the khums of Allah from the gains ( al-ghanaim ). ' Please refer to

* Abu Ubayd, al-Amwal p13 ( Beirut 1981 )
* al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak Volume 1 p395 ( Hyderabad 1340 A.H )
* Jafar Murtada al-Amili, al-Sahih fi Sirat al-Nabi Volume 3 p309
( Qum 1983 )

It is very interesting to note that the Bani Kilal obeyed Prophet's order
and sent the khums of gains to him while no war had taken place between the
muslims and the un-believers.

This is a clear indication that khums was not
restricted by the Prophet (PBUH&HF) to the Spoils of War!

The importance given by the Prophet (PBUH&HF) to the issue of Khums can
also be seen in his advice to the delegation of Bani Abdul Qays.

It seems
that Bani Abdul Qays ( which was a branch of Rabiah ) was not a very strong
tribe. More over in order to travel to Medina, they had to cross an area
inhabited by the Muzar tribe, which was against the muslims.

Consequently,
the Bani Abdul Qays could not travel safely to Medina except during the
months in which war fare was forbidden according to the Arab custom.

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.327 (pages 212-213)
Narrated Ibn Abbas:

The delegates of the tribe of Abdul Qais came and said: `O Allah's
Apostle ! We are from the tribe of Rabia and between us and you stand
stand the infidels of the tribe of Mudar, so we cannot come to you
except in the Haram Months.

So please order us some instructions that
we may apply it to ourselves and also invite our people left behind us
to observe as well.

' The Prophet (PBUH) said: `I order you to do four
(4) things and forbid you to do four (4): I order you to believe in
Allah, that is, to testify that None has the right to be worshipped
but Allah (the Prophet (PBUH) pointed with his hand) ; to offer
prayers perfectly, to pay Zakat, to fast the month of Ramadhan, and to
pay the Khums.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#117

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:55 am

Looks like Ismailism is based on fabrications from Bukhari. It also looks like all Ismailis get their wealth by digging for buried treasure. Also, the Ismailis cheat their Imam by only paying 12.5% instead of 20%. What a joke. HAHAHAHAHHA!!

znanwalla
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#118

Unread post by znanwalla » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:37 am

how do you know what we pay? and what it includes? once again you are showing your pit latrine ignorance to us....and Bukhari is your favourite Imam - the student of Imam Zohri who fabricated most of your ahadith for the sake of pittance and gains from your caliphs....so you enjoy him pal...we are only showing you that you imbeciles don't know even your own books....when you can't deny the evidence you act like a child and start frothing at the mouth....go and take a ride with MF behind his ......it might freshen your faculties

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#119

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:09 am

how do you know what we pay?
So you concede you don't pay what your quran asks you to pay? What a shame. And you also concede that Ismailism is based on fabrications from Bukhari. What an idiot. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

znanwalla
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Re-evaluating the Namaz

#120

Unread post by znanwalla » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:52 pm

Najmi,

You are once again showing the ignorance of MF scooters inc of tataland.....I asked you how do you know what we pay? and you haven't answered that question, to begin with? then I asked you how do you know the apportionments made for us with what we pay ? you haven't answered the question....so first tell us the basis on which you say we only pay 12.5% and not more or not less and what does this 12.5% you allege that we give represents vis a vis Khums, ushr, sadaqa etc etc? now tell us Mr Wise.....

Finally you do concede that Khums/Ushr is indeed payable and which you infidels are not giving and also the 2.5% sadaqa that you give is under stated therefore as you have not been able to show or prove the basis on which just 2.5% is payable or be paid?

Now if you say that ismailis give 12.5% ( Quran shows 20% ) and you give only 2.5% falsely then between us who is better and superior in paying? obviously you are way too inferior...right?

zn