That is not even funny. There's certainly no comparison between real life tragedies as experienced and witnessed first hand with something that happened beyond our imaginations, written in books and/or narrated hundreds/thousands of years ago. The only emotional renderings of the past are nonsensically deliberated via forced exaggerations as dramatized enactments; which is what all religilious acts and rituals are all about. I would rather become disgusted, dissapointed and mourn for a child or a pregnant women blown up into pieces or burnt alive as witnessed or perhaps one of our loved ones seen humiliated, tortured and massacred in the most horrendous and despicable ways than to become emotionally attached and adrenalized over fantastic ancient showcases irrelevant to our related tidings of natural realistic causes and effects, which are only temporary. Regardless of how severe the tragedies curtail (religious or otherwise), people must overcome the sorrows and learn to move on and stop crying over spilt milk.porus wrote:So, essentially, there is no difference between a person who mourns Husain's sacrifice and the one who mourns a recently deceased loved one. To be sure, the latter appears more immediate but, by a fiat, the former can be made to appear more immediate also, which appears to be the function of the Waaiz.
Ashura
Re: Ashura
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Ashura
danish, can u agree to disagree? this question is rooted in the present reality, so shud resonate effectively with yr POV.
recounting kerbala is a cornerstone of shia faith, provided it remains true to known facts. embelishing it falsely with made up stories and half truths, exaggerations etc, designed to falsely create hysteria, hatred for others and self-glorification and to make it a shameless tear-jerking exercise in order to carry out subtle mind control or emotional blackmail is reprehensible and a travesty of the shahadat itself, deserving of disgust.
yr ire seems more directed towards the latter and the continous repetition ad nauseum of this hype, as practised by the syedna and his henchmen, who wud have u believe if they had their way, that maatam is recommended after every visit to the toilet and before every meal, also after u go to sleep and before u wake up.!! yes, that is a useless and sinister practice and shud be roundly condemned by all those who refuse to get carried away by all the shenanigans of our leaders.
by dismissing the whole kerbala narrative or episode as unimportant in islam, u are throwing out the baby with the bathwater!
recounting kerbala is a cornerstone of shia faith, provided it remains true to known facts. embelishing it falsely with made up stories and half truths, exaggerations etc, designed to falsely create hysteria, hatred for others and self-glorification and to make it a shameless tear-jerking exercise in order to carry out subtle mind control or emotional blackmail is reprehensible and a travesty of the shahadat itself, deserving of disgust.
yr ire seems more directed towards the latter and the continous repetition ad nauseum of this hype, as practised by the syedna and his henchmen, who wud have u believe if they had their way, that maatam is recommended after every visit to the toilet and before every meal, also after u go to sleep and before u wake up.!! yes, that is a useless and sinister practice and shud be roundly condemned by all those who refuse to get carried away by all the shenanigans of our leaders.
by dismissing the whole kerbala narrative or episode as unimportant in islam, u are throwing out the baby with the bathwater!
Re: Ashura
Al Zulfikar.......
As usual, what you post makes sence to your delusional Prozac laden mind only....
Go smoke another camel will ya, you dumb Wahabi!
As usual, what you post makes sence to your delusional Prozac laden mind only....
Go smoke another camel will ya, you dumb Wahabi!
Re: Ashura
bro Zulfi, neither you, I nor anyone else on this planet knows the real truth about Karabla. There are two sides of the story and I hesitate to picture in opposition. There were several other "Islamic jungs" or must I say junks (religious wars) that are not accounted, materialized or matamized for. Only a minute portion of the entire Muslim Ummah (i.e. the specific Ismaili or famitid shias) revere this fatefull incident; all because of foretold fabulous stories as narrated by he-said/she-said dogma (which is what ahadiths are). As I mentioned earlier, why cry over spilt milk which has absolutely no relevance or control over our current lives, which neither you nor I, have any attachments whatsoever other than religously emotional Muslim Shia unprecidented ancient efficacy and drumbeatings of the past.Al Zulfiqar wrote:by dismissing the whole kerbala narrative or episode as unimportant in islam, u are throwing out the baby with the bathwater!
Re: Ashura
Muizz, discuss the issues and subject matter without becoming a selfless maniac like your Burhanuddin.Al-Muizz wrote:Al Zulfikar.......
As usual, what you post makes sence to your delusional Prozac laden mind only....
Go smoke another camel will ya, you dumb Wahabi!
Re: Ashura
A well-wisher took Imam Husain aside and related to him, in private, the news of the slaying of Muslim bin Aqeel in Kufa. Husain told him that there was no secrecy between him and his followers who were then en route to Kufa and that he should tell them all the news that he relayed to him in private. He did that. All the companions and relatives of Husain heard this dreadful news in silence.
Among the companions were two sons of Muslim bin Aqeel, Muhammad and Ibrahim. Husain told them that their father had martyred himself and their family had done enough and asked them to head back to Madina. The youngsters refused and said that they were willing to lay their lives down in the cause of Allah and would not leave Husain.
The lesson here is that of forbearance amongst the companions and certain faith in the will of Allah. They did not rise up shouting for revenge. Contrast this with those who murder innocents in the name of Jihad. This is a lesson of Karbala.
This is just one episode. There are many other heart-wrenching episodes with great lessons, specially for young people, who are entranced by a false reading of what Jihad is. Karbala is a counterweight to such denigration of Islam.
One thing you will notice in the above episode was that there was no self-flagellation or breast beating. Just silent, solemn observation with forbearance.
Among the companions were two sons of Muslim bin Aqeel, Muhammad and Ibrahim. Husain told them that their father had martyred himself and their family had done enough and asked them to head back to Madina. The youngsters refused and said that they were willing to lay their lives down in the cause of Allah and would not leave Husain.
The lesson here is that of forbearance amongst the companions and certain faith in the will of Allah. They did not rise up shouting for revenge. Contrast this with those who murder innocents in the name of Jihad. This is a lesson of Karbala.
This is just one episode. There are many other heart-wrenching episodes with great lessons, specially for young people, who are entranced by a false reading of what Jihad is. Karbala is a counterweight to such denigration of Islam.
One thing you will notice in the above episode was that there was no self-flagellation or breast beating. Just silent, solemn observation with forbearance.
-
like_minded
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Ashura
Arif
If you think by endorsing danish's views I am making a fool of myself, then be it!
What danish is saying.. is exactly what I have in mind, so I readily endorse it.
If you think by endorsing danish's views I am making a fool of myself, then be it!
What danish is saying.. is exactly what I have in mind, so I readily endorse it.
-
like_minded
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Ashura
Arif
We may have a difference of opinion on many issues, that's fair enough! Let's leave that aside and focus on our own community sufferings, the high handedness and corruption in Kothar, who are responsible for the degeneration of Bohra community.
More than inspiration from past history, we need the WILL to fight against the present tyranny, which threatens to destroy our future generation.
We may have a difference of opinion on many issues, that's fair enough! Let's leave that aside and focus on our own community sufferings, the high handedness and corruption in Kothar, who are responsible for the degeneration of Bohra community.
More than inspiration from past history, we need the WILL to fight against the present tyranny, which threatens to destroy our future generation.
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Ashura
muizz,Al-Muizz wrote:Al Zulfikar.......
As usual, what you post makes sence to your delusional Prozac laden mind only....
Go smoke another camel will ya, you dumb Wahabi!
as i have told u before, u are a mentally enslaved, emasculated, impotent retard (abde syedna) with whom it is not worth to dicuss anything. send in yr masters to talk with us.
Re: Ashura
http://akhbar.mumineen.org/2009/01/08/p ... et-mumbai/
Looking at these pictures, does it look like a SOLEMN affair of Shadat of Imam Husain or celebration with all the flowers and light for a festive season. WHAT A MOCKERY OF THIRST AND HUNGER OF 72 SHUDAS
?
Looking at these pictures, does it look like a SOLEMN affair of Shadat of Imam Husain or celebration with all the flowers and light for a festive season. WHAT A MOCKERY OF THIRST AND HUNGER OF 72 SHUDAS
?Re: Ashura
Sounds like disobedience and retaliation than forbearance.porus wrote:Among the companions were two sons of Muslim bin Aqeel, Muhammad and Ibrahim. Husain told them that their father had martyred himself and their family had done enough and asked them to head back to Madina. The youngsters refused and said that they were willing to lay their lives down in the cause of Allah and would not leave Husain.
The lesson here is that of forbearance amongst the companionsand certain faith in the will of Allah. They did not rise up shouting for revenge. Contrast this with those who murder innocents in the name of Jihad. This is a lesson of Karbala.
I've read conflicting stories referencing Hussain and his faithful companions. Yazid ibn Muawiyah ibn Abu Sufyan was a khalifa of the Ummayads who had developed estranged relationship with Hussain and ordered his annihilation. Hussain was warned not to travel to Kufa but inspite all odds he took a secret passageway and met his fate at Karbala. He was already injured in the battle and seeing the opportunity he was killed and beheaded by Shimr ibn Jawshan (maternal uncle of Abbas ibn Ali). Many others equally met their disastrous fate from both sides. Note that all of them were Muslim Arabs.....do we see a trend in the Muslim world even today. According to non-Shia Muslims and non-Muslim sources, Yazid was innocent and mustn't be cursed. Many authentic ahadees also relate in favor of Yazid. But O well, what can one conclude from fabricated and conjectural stories of he-said/she-said dogma (Sahih Hadiths ~
).Re: Ashura
LM,We may have a difference of opinion on many issues, that's fair enough! Let's leave that aside and focus on our own community sufferings, the high handedness and corruption in Kothar, who are responsible for the degeneration of Bohra community.
Its not the question of differences. The sacrifice of Karbala and grt life led by prophet(pbuh) and his family can be the biggest benchmark that can be used to bring crooks like syedna and his family to justice. Today people like us hate them precisely for the non-Islamic and unethical and immoral practices carried out by them throughout our community. Also, an average abde syedna needs to be taught the true meaning and value of this event. According to me if an average blind follower of syedna will understand the true "mynaa" of this sacrifice he will revolt against the tyranny of our religious clergy. Imam Husain fought against Yazid because he was aware that if Yazid has his way out Islam will be doomed. Similarly since syedna is having his way out our community is in shambles. Hence, I will always use this grt historic event as an example to explain people what true Islam is all about and what a good muslim should do. Here we are not trying to prove a point but bring out the finer aspects of Islam that are lost somewhere along the road and maybe one of the reasons for that might be people like you who are not interested in going back into time to understand the true values of Islam...
Re: Ashura
Reality is that there are sectarian differences amongst Muslims.
They believe in partisan history, partisan hadith and have partisan interpretations of the Quran. Only God knows the truth.
What is reality is what happens today. You see the Shia commemorating Ashura in accordance with their beliefs about the past and it is very real to them. If you observe them, then you also participate in that reality.
The following are incidents from history accepted by both the Shia and Sunni historians:
Yazid ruled as a Khalifa for 3 years. In the first year he ordered the killing of Husain. [Muhammad had said that "I am from Husain, and Husain is from me. Whoever is his enemy is also my enemy"].
In his second year he sacked Madina and razed Prophet's grave. He boasted that he finally avenged Banu Hashim's insult to his forbears, Banu Umayya.
In his third year, he attacked Makkah and burnt Kaaba to the ground.
These are the acts of a 'Muslim' ruler? And today, only Wahhabis, would dare to say "May Allah be pleased with him".
The primary issue is not whether what people believe is founded on actual incidents, which cannot be veified by anyone, but whether it gives anyone a right to perpetrate violence against them for their beliefs.
Maybe, in far distant future, say, in 10,000 years, beliefs in partsan deities will give way to a universal shared paradigm as has already happened in science.
Meanwhile, reality is multi-faith and multi-cultures, many at odds against one another. Only recourse for us is to accept this diversity. If you curse my God in your private gatherings, and I curse your God in my private gatherings and yet otherwise we have a healthy intellectual and commercial intercourse, where is the problem?
They believe in partisan history, partisan hadith and have partisan interpretations of the Quran. Only God knows the truth.
What is reality is what happens today. You see the Shia commemorating Ashura in accordance with their beliefs about the past and it is very real to them. If you observe them, then you also participate in that reality.
The following are incidents from history accepted by both the Shia and Sunni historians:
Yazid ruled as a Khalifa for 3 years. In the first year he ordered the killing of Husain. [Muhammad had said that "I am from Husain, and Husain is from me. Whoever is his enemy is also my enemy"].
In his second year he sacked Madina and razed Prophet's grave. He boasted that he finally avenged Banu Hashim's insult to his forbears, Banu Umayya.
In his third year, he attacked Makkah and burnt Kaaba to the ground.
These are the acts of a 'Muslim' ruler? And today, only Wahhabis, would dare to say "May Allah be pleased with him".
The primary issue is not whether what people believe is founded on actual incidents, which cannot be veified by anyone, but whether it gives anyone a right to perpetrate violence against them for their beliefs.
Maybe, in far distant future, say, in 10,000 years, beliefs in partsan deities will give way to a universal shared paradigm as has already happened in science.
Meanwhile, reality is multi-faith and multi-cultures, many at odds against one another. Only recourse for us is to accept this diversity. If you curse my God in your private gatherings, and I curse your God in my private gatherings and yet otherwise we have a healthy intellectual and commercial intercourse, where is the problem?
Last edited by porus on Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Ashura
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... ari#p33599
Read Chapter 12, page 47, Karbala: Fact or Fiction:
http://ourbeacon.com/wp-content/uploads ... istory.pdf
Following is excerpted from the book : ISLAM: THE TRUE HISTORY AND FALSE BELIEFS by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed
MEMOIRS OF HUR BIN ABDUR RAHMAN is preserved in Istanbul Meuseum, and Kitab-e-Dalail-e-Nabawwut Syedna Muhammad by ABDUL JABBAR QARAMATI is in Istanbul Archives
A STARTLING ADMISSION - HUSSEIN KAZIMZADA:
This was a brief portrayal of some dark characters of our history. Now let us have a look at what a renowned 20th century historian of Iran writes in his Persian book Tajalliat-e-Rooh-e-Iran dar Adwar-e-Tareekhi (Splendor of the Spirit of Iran in the Annals of History): "From the day Sa'd bin Abi Waqas conquered Persia (20 AH) on behalf of the Second Caliph (Hazrat Umar), the Persians nurtured a passion for revenge in their hearts. They could never forget that a handful of Arab Bedouins had dealt their mighty empire a shattering blow. Our forefathers followed the only course that was open to them. Firstly, they incited the Abbassids of Banu Hashim to eliminate the Umayyad Dynasty that ruled from 661-750 CE. Persisting with their long-term goals, and persevering with their plans through centuries, at the most opportune time, they invited Hulagu Khan of Mongolia in 1258 CE and did away with the Arabian Abbassid Empire. In this way our forefathers avenged their humiliating defeat and the loss of their Empire at Qadisiyah in 637 CE at the hands of Arabs."
This was the revenge they took from Muslims. We have mentioned above the principal characters of the horrible drama staged by them. For revenge from Islam itself, these characters replaced the pristine Islam of the exalted Prophet Muhammad with an Ajamite Islam. Its foundations were laid during the reign of Khalifa Haroon Rashid. This Ajami Islam is rampant in the socalled Islamic world to date. Haroon born 766 CE, ruled from 786-809 CE (170-192 AH).
This is the same Islam, which, like Hussain Kazimzada, Allama Iqbal called the Ajami Islam. Sir Syed Ahmad Khan temed it the Invented Religion, Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi named it Maulvi's Wrong Religion. I call it N2I, the Number Two Islam like the counterfeit medicines better known as "No. 2" medicines in the Indo-Pak Subcontinent.
ANOTHER SECRET REVEALED - ABDUL JABBAR QARAMATI:
A book (a single handwritten document) by Abdul Jabbar Qaramati dating 280 AH (about the times of Abbassid Caliph Mo'tazid) exists in the Istanbul museum. It is titled Kitab-e-Dalail-e-Nabawwut Syedna Muhammad. This book tells us: Even two hundred and fifty years after the death of our Prophet the Islamic world is united as one body. Jews, Nazarenes and the Zoroastrians keep trying to sow the seeds of dissension in the Muslim ranks. Their chief strategy is similar to that of Abdullah bin Saba and Abu Muslim Khorasani, namely reviving the ethnic differences between Arabs and non-Arabs, all of which had been demolished by the Quran.
They propagate the belief that the Caliphate should have remained among the descendants of Hazrat Ali. On one hand, the conspirators were supporting the caliphate of the household of Hazrat Ali and on the other, they were assassinating successive Imams, so that people won't unite under Hazrat Ali's descendants either. These assassinations were executed by the tools of the masterminds. Hazrat Ali's assassin, Jamshed Khurasani, was such a tool. It may be noted that Jamshed Khorasani was a Parsi but our history books name him as Abdul Rahman Ibn Muljam Khariji.
Abdul Jabbar Qaramati writes in this book that at the time of his martyrdom, Hazrat Ali was the Governor of Iraq appointed by Hazrat Uthman, just as he was appointed by Hazrat Umar. Before assassinating Hazrat Ali, Abdullah bin Saba had already killed Hazrat Uthman in a night raid on the Governmenment house. Mention of this hand written book by Abdul Jabbar Qaramati has also been made by Dr. Hameeduddin, a renowned historian of the sub-continent (a doctor from Harvard) in his book titled History of Islam (Madinah Publications) on Page 486. It is worth noting that Qaramati makes no mention of any insurrection of thousands of rebels into Madinah, nor of a seige of Caliph Uthman's house. Hazrat Uthman was martyred in 35 AH. Hazrat Ali, until his martyrdom in 40 AH 660 CE, continued as the Governor of Iraq as well as the new Caliph of the Ummah - the Commander of the Believers.
So, out of the question are the Battle of Jamal between Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ayesha or the Battle of Saffain between Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Mu'awiya, and lastly, the Battle of Nahrawan between Hazrat Ali and the Khawarij. All these tales are fantastic fabrications of the most mischievous minds.
Now let us pay attention to what is stated by Hujjatallah Abdul Qadir Ali Al-Moosvi in his book Meezanul Faris and by Hur bin Abdul Rahman, Governor of Andulus (Spain), in his diary, Muzakkrah Hur Bin Abdul Rahman. But before we do that, let us reiterate the answer to the question:What is the connection between Imam Mahdi and Karbala?
MEMOIRS OF HUR BIN ABDUR RAHMAN (D. 734 CE):
We have mentioned earlier in this book that when Abu Muslim Khorasani destroyed the Arab Caliphate of Banu Umayya, just one single member of the royal household managed to escape. This was a prince named Abdur Rahman. He was able to reach Andulusia (Spain). With Arabs already present there in great numbers, he was welcome and succeeded in establishing the Umayyad dynasty in Spain. (132 AH 745 CE)
Please note that one century of the solar calendar approximates 103 years of the lunar calendar since a lunar year has 354.5 days.
Before Abdur Rahman could reach there, Musa bin Nusair and Tariq bin Ziayd had already conquered Spain in 92 AH, 711 CE during the reign of Khalifa Waleed bin Abdul Malik. Then, for a short period of two years (99 to 101 AH) Umar bin Abdul Aziz was the Caliph of the Islamic State. This was the highly regarded personage who had rekindled the memories of the Khilaafat-e-Rashida (The Rightly Guided Caliphate) in peoples' minds. This gifted Khalifa appointed a capable person, Hur bin Abdur Rahman as Governor of Spain. Like Muhammad bin Qasim in India, Hur proved to be a great administrator in spite of his young years. He won over the hearts of the people of Spain through his impeccable character and his competence as an administrator. It was under his leadership that the Muslim armies crossed Spanish borders over to the southern France and conquered it. (History of Islam, by Dr. Hameeduddin, Madinah Publishing Company, Karachi, Page 299)
Hur bin Abdur Rahman used to maintain a diary of events in Arabic. About two hundred years later, in about year 920 CE, a Spanish officer Simone Ashbillia found this diary. He translated this diary (what was left of it) into Spanish. In 1910, Dennis Montgomery, a British scholar carefully analysed this diary and concluded that the complete diary must have contained over 300 pages. This diary covered the period around 100 AH.
Surprisingly, the contents of this diary support the research by the Iranian historian Hussain Kazimzadeh and Hujjatullah Abdul Qadir Ali Moosvi's Meezanil Faris. All these sources agree to a great extent with the writings of Abdul Jabbar Qaramati in the Istanbul archives.
SOME EXCERPTS FROM THE MEMOIRS OF HUR BIN ABDUR RAHMAN:
Muzakkarah Hurr bin Abdur Rahman The Diary of Hurr bin Abdur Rahman (Translated from Spanish by Dennis Montgomery in 1910 from the historical archives at Barcelona, Spain)
(Translated into Spanish from the original Arabic by Simone Ashbillia in 920 CE in Gordova, Spain)
13 SAFAR, AL-HIJRAH 100:
They call me Abu Nafe, Amir Hurr bin Abdur Rahman. I call myself Ibn Abduh. Tonight won't sleep. Have to meet with my deputies. No planning means no effective operation. No action no achievement. Okay Ibn Abduh!
Will see you tomorrow!
NO DATE:
I am requesting Amir-ul-Momineen (Umar bin Abdul Aziz) to let us establish four army garrisons in Andalusia (Spain) just as Sayyedna Umar Farooq had established two new garrisons in Kufah and Basra. We are here to stay because people in this country love us. They feel liberated. There is total peace in our Emirah (Rule). Jews, Christians, Muslims, all live in harmony and without fear. There is no unrest of any kind, religious or otherwise.
26 Safar AH 100:
I am very grateful for the confidence Amir ….. and Amir-ul-Momineen Umar bin Abdul Aziz have placed in me. I am fully aware of the fact that we will have to ….. and turn good into better every day.
(Dots indicate not legible)
NO DATE:
Just as the plots of the Magians (Zoroastrians) had created trouble in Iraq during the first few decades of Islam, similarly we face conspiracies …..
that erupt now and then. The reason is obvious. The local rich elite and the powerful leaders of the past hate social equity between people.
17 Rajab, AH 100:
Although the situation in Spain is very much in control and improving every day, still I feel that the Khilafa in Damascus should appoint a more able governor in this land. I will feel honored to work under the command of such a governor as an ordinary official, soldier. I have expressed this desire to the Amir-ul-Momineen.
NO DATE:
I understand that it is impossible to find people of the caliber of Ali, Hasan and Husain (r. a.). They, as Emirs (governors), have truly made Iraq a paradise on earth. Ali and Husain (r. a.) sacrificed their lives in their noble offices as Emirs. The Magians (Jamsed Khurasani and Jabaan bin Harmuzan) had thought that by assassinating these two honorables, Iraq would ….. to the Farisis (the Persians). But the sacred blood of Emir Ali and Emir Husain was not shed in vain. Ambassadors from the Center (Khilafah) and elsewhere report that in Al-Hijrah 100 Kufah, Basra, and ….. are even more peaceful and prosperous than Syria, Palestine and Egypt.
NO DATE (SOME DAY IN AL-HIJRAH 101):
Ah! Amir-ul-Momineen Umar bin Abdul Aziz passed on. May Allah bless him! He was truly a man of Iman (Faith), character, will, and vision.
(The Diary ends here.)
Read Chapter 12, page 47, Karbala: Fact or Fiction:
http://ourbeacon.com/wp-content/uploads ... istory.pdf
Following is excerpted from the book : ISLAM: THE TRUE HISTORY AND FALSE BELIEFS by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed
MEMOIRS OF HUR BIN ABDUR RAHMAN is preserved in Istanbul Meuseum, and Kitab-e-Dalail-e-Nabawwut Syedna Muhammad by ABDUL JABBAR QARAMATI is in Istanbul Archives
A STARTLING ADMISSION - HUSSEIN KAZIMZADA:
This was a brief portrayal of some dark characters of our history. Now let us have a look at what a renowned 20th century historian of Iran writes in his Persian book Tajalliat-e-Rooh-e-Iran dar Adwar-e-Tareekhi (Splendor of the Spirit of Iran in the Annals of History): "From the day Sa'd bin Abi Waqas conquered Persia (20 AH) on behalf of the Second Caliph (Hazrat Umar), the Persians nurtured a passion for revenge in their hearts. They could never forget that a handful of Arab Bedouins had dealt their mighty empire a shattering blow. Our forefathers followed the only course that was open to them. Firstly, they incited the Abbassids of Banu Hashim to eliminate the Umayyad Dynasty that ruled from 661-750 CE. Persisting with their long-term goals, and persevering with their plans through centuries, at the most opportune time, they invited Hulagu Khan of Mongolia in 1258 CE and did away with the Arabian Abbassid Empire. In this way our forefathers avenged their humiliating defeat and the loss of their Empire at Qadisiyah in 637 CE at the hands of Arabs."
This was the revenge they took from Muslims. We have mentioned above the principal characters of the horrible drama staged by them. For revenge from Islam itself, these characters replaced the pristine Islam of the exalted Prophet Muhammad with an Ajamite Islam. Its foundations were laid during the reign of Khalifa Haroon Rashid. This Ajami Islam is rampant in the socalled Islamic world to date. Haroon born 766 CE, ruled from 786-809 CE (170-192 AH).
This is the same Islam, which, like Hussain Kazimzada, Allama Iqbal called the Ajami Islam. Sir Syed Ahmad Khan temed it the Invented Religion, Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi named it Maulvi's Wrong Religion. I call it N2I, the Number Two Islam like the counterfeit medicines better known as "No. 2" medicines in the Indo-Pak Subcontinent.
ANOTHER SECRET REVEALED - ABDUL JABBAR QARAMATI:
A book (a single handwritten document) by Abdul Jabbar Qaramati dating 280 AH (about the times of Abbassid Caliph Mo'tazid) exists in the Istanbul museum. It is titled Kitab-e-Dalail-e-Nabawwut Syedna Muhammad. This book tells us: Even two hundred and fifty years after the death of our Prophet the Islamic world is united as one body. Jews, Nazarenes and the Zoroastrians keep trying to sow the seeds of dissension in the Muslim ranks. Their chief strategy is similar to that of Abdullah bin Saba and Abu Muslim Khorasani, namely reviving the ethnic differences between Arabs and non-Arabs, all of which had been demolished by the Quran.
They propagate the belief that the Caliphate should have remained among the descendants of Hazrat Ali. On one hand, the conspirators were supporting the caliphate of the household of Hazrat Ali and on the other, they were assassinating successive Imams, so that people won't unite under Hazrat Ali's descendants either. These assassinations were executed by the tools of the masterminds. Hazrat Ali's assassin, Jamshed Khurasani, was such a tool. It may be noted that Jamshed Khorasani was a Parsi but our history books name him as Abdul Rahman Ibn Muljam Khariji.
Abdul Jabbar Qaramati writes in this book that at the time of his martyrdom, Hazrat Ali was the Governor of Iraq appointed by Hazrat Uthman, just as he was appointed by Hazrat Umar. Before assassinating Hazrat Ali, Abdullah bin Saba had already killed Hazrat Uthman in a night raid on the Governmenment house. Mention of this hand written book by Abdul Jabbar Qaramati has also been made by Dr. Hameeduddin, a renowned historian of the sub-continent (a doctor from Harvard) in his book titled History of Islam (Madinah Publications) on Page 486. It is worth noting that Qaramati makes no mention of any insurrection of thousands of rebels into Madinah, nor of a seige of Caliph Uthman's house. Hazrat Uthman was martyred in 35 AH. Hazrat Ali, until his martyrdom in 40 AH 660 CE, continued as the Governor of Iraq as well as the new Caliph of the Ummah - the Commander of the Believers.
So, out of the question are the Battle of Jamal between Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ayesha or the Battle of Saffain between Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Mu'awiya, and lastly, the Battle of Nahrawan between Hazrat Ali and the Khawarij. All these tales are fantastic fabrications of the most mischievous minds.
Now let us pay attention to what is stated by Hujjatallah Abdul Qadir Ali Al-Moosvi in his book Meezanul Faris and by Hur bin Abdul Rahman, Governor of Andulus (Spain), in his diary, Muzakkrah Hur Bin Abdul Rahman. But before we do that, let us reiterate the answer to the question:What is the connection between Imam Mahdi and Karbala?
MEMOIRS OF HUR BIN ABDUR RAHMAN (D. 734 CE):
We have mentioned earlier in this book that when Abu Muslim Khorasani destroyed the Arab Caliphate of Banu Umayya, just one single member of the royal household managed to escape. This was a prince named Abdur Rahman. He was able to reach Andulusia (Spain). With Arabs already present there in great numbers, he was welcome and succeeded in establishing the Umayyad dynasty in Spain. (132 AH 745 CE)
Please note that one century of the solar calendar approximates 103 years of the lunar calendar since a lunar year has 354.5 days.
Before Abdur Rahman could reach there, Musa bin Nusair and Tariq bin Ziayd had already conquered Spain in 92 AH, 711 CE during the reign of Khalifa Waleed bin Abdul Malik. Then, for a short period of two years (99 to 101 AH) Umar bin Abdul Aziz was the Caliph of the Islamic State. This was the highly regarded personage who had rekindled the memories of the Khilaafat-e-Rashida (The Rightly Guided Caliphate) in peoples' minds. This gifted Khalifa appointed a capable person, Hur bin Abdur Rahman as Governor of Spain. Like Muhammad bin Qasim in India, Hur proved to be a great administrator in spite of his young years. He won over the hearts of the people of Spain through his impeccable character and his competence as an administrator. It was under his leadership that the Muslim armies crossed Spanish borders over to the southern France and conquered it. (History of Islam, by Dr. Hameeduddin, Madinah Publishing Company, Karachi, Page 299)
Hur bin Abdur Rahman used to maintain a diary of events in Arabic. About two hundred years later, in about year 920 CE, a Spanish officer Simone Ashbillia found this diary. He translated this diary (what was left of it) into Spanish. In 1910, Dennis Montgomery, a British scholar carefully analysed this diary and concluded that the complete diary must have contained over 300 pages. This diary covered the period around 100 AH.
Surprisingly, the contents of this diary support the research by the Iranian historian Hussain Kazimzadeh and Hujjatullah Abdul Qadir Ali Moosvi's Meezanil Faris. All these sources agree to a great extent with the writings of Abdul Jabbar Qaramati in the Istanbul archives.
SOME EXCERPTS FROM THE MEMOIRS OF HUR BIN ABDUR RAHMAN:
Muzakkarah Hurr bin Abdur Rahman The Diary of Hurr bin Abdur Rahman (Translated from Spanish by Dennis Montgomery in 1910 from the historical archives at Barcelona, Spain)
(Translated into Spanish from the original Arabic by Simone Ashbillia in 920 CE in Gordova, Spain)
13 SAFAR, AL-HIJRAH 100:
They call me Abu Nafe, Amir Hurr bin Abdur Rahman. I call myself Ibn Abduh. Tonight won't sleep. Have to meet with my deputies. No planning means no effective operation. No action no achievement. Okay Ibn Abduh!
Will see you tomorrow!
NO DATE:
I am requesting Amir-ul-Momineen (Umar bin Abdul Aziz) to let us establish four army garrisons in Andalusia (Spain) just as Sayyedna Umar Farooq had established two new garrisons in Kufah and Basra. We are here to stay because people in this country love us. They feel liberated. There is total peace in our Emirah (Rule). Jews, Christians, Muslims, all live in harmony and without fear. There is no unrest of any kind, religious or otherwise.
26 Safar AH 100:
I am very grateful for the confidence Amir ….. and Amir-ul-Momineen Umar bin Abdul Aziz have placed in me. I am fully aware of the fact that we will have to ….. and turn good into better every day.
(Dots indicate not legible)
NO DATE:
Just as the plots of the Magians (Zoroastrians) had created trouble in Iraq during the first few decades of Islam, similarly we face conspiracies …..
that erupt now and then. The reason is obvious. The local rich elite and the powerful leaders of the past hate social equity between people.
17 Rajab, AH 100:
Although the situation in Spain is very much in control and improving every day, still I feel that the Khilafa in Damascus should appoint a more able governor in this land. I will feel honored to work under the command of such a governor as an ordinary official, soldier. I have expressed this desire to the Amir-ul-Momineen.
NO DATE:
I understand that it is impossible to find people of the caliber of Ali, Hasan and Husain (r. a.). They, as Emirs (governors), have truly made Iraq a paradise on earth. Ali and Husain (r. a.) sacrificed their lives in their noble offices as Emirs. The Magians (Jamsed Khurasani and Jabaan bin Harmuzan) had thought that by assassinating these two honorables, Iraq would ….. to the Farisis (the Persians). But the sacred blood of Emir Ali and Emir Husain was not shed in vain. Ambassadors from the Center (Khilafah) and elsewhere report that in Al-Hijrah 100 Kufah, Basra, and ….. are even more peaceful and prosperous than Syria, Palestine and Egypt.
NO DATE (SOME DAY IN AL-HIJRAH 101):
Ah! Amir-ul-Momineen Umar bin Abdul Aziz passed on. May Allah bless him! He was truly a man of Iman (Faith), character, will, and vision.
(The Diary ends here.)
Re: Ashura
"Two Islam like the counterfeit medicines better known as "No. 2" medicines in the Indo-Pak Subcontinent."
Shahu
I would be very careful quoting Dr. Shabbir Ahmad, it is same doctor who talks about No.2 Medicines and his license to practice medicine in State of Florida was suspended because of his bad practice of medicine. He is not even considered an authentic scholar in Islam by many Sunnis. Shias consider him a fraud.
Shahu
I would be very careful quoting Dr. Shabbir Ahmad, it is same doctor who talks about No.2 Medicines and his license to practice medicine in State of Florida was suspended because of his bad practice of medicine. He is not even considered an authentic scholar in Islam by many Sunnis. Shias consider him a fraud.
Re: Ashura
Dr Shabbir Ahmed's book "Karbala: Fact or Fiction" is a revisionist polemic directed against the Shia by an anti-Shia 'scholar'. It is an interesting work of fiction.
There are many authentic sources for Karbala, notably, works of Abu Jafar al-Tabari.
There are many authentic sources for Karbala, notably, works of Abu Jafar al-Tabari.
Re: Ashura
Yahoo,
Better check your sources before writing crap on this forum.
Better check your sources before writing crap on this forum.
Re: Ashura
The religious God that knows the truth was also partitioned. This God was a "gold medal" idiot who died long time ago but kept His Arabized prophesies still tickling and ticking.porus wrote:Reality is that there are sectarian differences amongst Muslims.
They believe in partisan history, partisan hadith and have partisan interpretations of the Quran. Only God knows the truth.
The definition of reality is the state and quality of being real, not dramatized, composed or rehearsed. The Moharram phenomenon viz-a-viz the Karbala incident is neither real nor related.What is reality is what happens today. You see the Shia commemorating Ashura in accordance with their beliefs about the past and it is very real to them. If you observe them, then you also participate in that reality.
The answer is in your statement (in bold).Meanwhile, reality is multi-faith and multi-cultures, many at odds against one another. Only recourse for us is to accept this diversity. If you curse my God in your private gatherings, and I curse your God in my private gatherings and yet otherwise we have a healthy intellectual and commercial intercourse, where is the problem?
At one point I presumed you were spiritual and logical, but somehow I 'read' you as getting degraded (no pun intended, just my 2 cents).
Re: Ashura
What you believe to be reality is what you extract from millions of bits of information that impinge on your consciousness. This extraction is based on your beliefs which you have adopted either voluntarily or involuntarily through your upbringing.
At every moment you look for confirmation of this manufactured 'reality' by seeking agreement with the world and, particularly, with people you interact with.
So, your 'reality' is as individual and fanciful as the next man's. You are being too clever by half. Most of your statements about God, Islam, deities, and translations of the Quran are complete nonsense. You have been told as much before by me others on this forum.
If reality means "agreement", then you live in a fanciful world of your own creation.
At every moment you look for confirmation of this manufactured 'reality' by seeking agreement with the world and, particularly, with people you interact with.
So, your 'reality' is as individual and fanciful as the next man's. You are being too clever by half. Most of your statements about God, Islam, deities, and translations of the Quran are complete nonsense. You have been told as much before by me others on this forum.
If reality means "agreement", then you live in a fanciful world of your own creation.
Re: Ashura
I already persented the definition of reality; there's no if's, buts and ands. People live in a fanciful world not by reality but by illusional and delusional mindsets.porus wrote:If reality means "agreement", then you live in a fanciful world of your own creation.
Re: Ashura
That is called maya. Illusion is reality if people agree upon it.Danish wrote:[People live in a fanciful world not by reality but by illusional and delusional mindsets.
Re: Ashura
AZ,
I'm really at a loss understanding you fellas. I mean:
1. ARE YOU SHIAS OR NOT?
2. ARE YOU DAWOODI-BOHRAS OR NOT?
3. DO YOU BELIEVE IN AQA MOULA AS THE LEGITIMATE SPIRITUAL HEAD OF THE DAWOODI-BOHRA COMMUNITY OR NOT?
The Article below is posted on your own web site, by one of your own.............
No separation please, we are Dawoodi Bohras
by Shaukat Ajmer
So, IF you claim to be DAWOODI-BOHRAS, and IF you claim that AQA MOULA IS THE LEGITIMATE SPIRITUAL LEADER OF THE DAWOODI-BOHRA COMMUNITY, and IF you claim to be Shia, then.....
1. How in the world did you begin to have your own Imamat namaaz WITHOUT THE BLESSING OF THE DAI? THIS IS TOTALLY COUNTER TO THE SHIA PHILOSOPHY, AND ALL DAWOODI-BOHRA TEACHINGS!
2. You GIVE MISAAQ TO THE IMAM AND IN HIS ABSENCE TO HIS DAI, MADHUN, MUKASIR.......WHO ARE YOU GIVING MISAAQ TO?
I can understand your beef with the money issues within the community....but WHAT YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YEZID (LA) DID WITH IMAM HUSAYN! YOU ARE IN EFFECT CREATING YOUR OWN VERSION OF SHIA ISMAILISM AND EXPECTING IT TO BE LEGITIMIZED! JUST LIKE THE DAMNED WAHABIS! THEY ADDED IN A 6TH IMAMAT SALAH, THE TARAVEEH AND LEGITIMIZED IT!
REALLY MESSED UP INDIVIDUALS HERE!
I'm really at a loss understanding you fellas. I mean:
1. ARE YOU SHIAS OR NOT?
2. ARE YOU DAWOODI-BOHRAS OR NOT?
3. DO YOU BELIEVE IN AQA MOULA AS THE LEGITIMATE SPIRITUAL HEAD OF THE DAWOODI-BOHRA COMMUNITY OR NOT?
The Article below is posted on your own web site, by one of your own.............
No separation please, we are Dawoodi Bohras
by Shaukat Ajmer
So, IF you claim to be DAWOODI-BOHRAS, and IF you claim that AQA MOULA IS THE LEGITIMATE SPIRITUAL LEADER OF THE DAWOODI-BOHRA COMMUNITY, and IF you claim to be Shia, then.....
1. How in the world did you begin to have your own Imamat namaaz WITHOUT THE BLESSING OF THE DAI? THIS IS TOTALLY COUNTER TO THE SHIA PHILOSOPHY, AND ALL DAWOODI-BOHRA TEACHINGS!
2. You GIVE MISAAQ TO THE IMAM AND IN HIS ABSENCE TO HIS DAI, MADHUN, MUKASIR.......WHO ARE YOU GIVING MISAAQ TO?
I can understand your beef with the money issues within the community....but WHAT YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YEZID (LA) DID WITH IMAM HUSAYN! YOU ARE IN EFFECT CREATING YOUR OWN VERSION OF SHIA ISMAILISM AND EXPECTING IT TO BE LEGITIMIZED! JUST LIKE THE DAMNED WAHABIS! THEY ADDED IN A 6TH IMAMAT SALAH, THE TARAVEEH AND LEGITIMIZED IT!
REALLY MESSED UP INDIVIDUALS HERE!
Re: Ashura
Commemoration of ash'ara is associated with a set of ritauls followed by shi'a sect. I may not agree with those rituals per se, but why would any one have problems with that. All relegious beleifs are full of these rituals. Circumambulating a black stone building while doing hajj, throwing pebbles on some stones or for that matter, praying salat in a particular way on a particular time is nothing but a set of rituals. If those can be be justified why not these rituals. If all these acts are symbolic in nature, as the "anti-ashura" brigade would put it, so is ash'ara.
Why make so much of fuss about it....
Why make so much of fuss about it....
Re: Ashura
Muslims have reduced al-deen to religion which does not serve humanity but only people who controlled them. Al-deen is a way of life for mutaqeen, and not just set of rituals.. Al-deen is challenge to religion.
11:117
Your Lord never unjustly destroys a community (for wrong beliefs alone) as long as its people are reformers, setting right their own, and one another’s condition.[The Quran is consistent in its theme that people will be rewarded for what they do (Ya’maloon), and not for what they know (Ya’lamoon). The Book stresses on the right belief system only because people are strongly influenced in their behavior by what they think and believe. Muslihoon = Reformers = Those who help their own and fellow humans’ condition = Those who set things right in their environment. This is one of the most revolutionary verses in the Quran. It throws out all dogmatic assertions that are the hallmark of a ‘religion’. As we have seen, Islam is not a ‘religion’ consisting merely of a set of some dogmas, rites and rituals. It is Ad-Deen, the Divinely Prescribed Collective Way of Life. Allama Muhammad Asad, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi et al are in complete agreement with the meaning of this verse 11:117 as translated here]
4:49
Have you seen those who claim that they have purified their souls? Purification or development of the ’self’ can only be achieved according to the laws of God, by service of humanity and not through rituals or mysticism. In the Court of God, men and women shall find full recompense for their doings without the least injustice.
Why are Muslims so powerless? Ignorance, apathy, waiting for rewards in the Hereafter.
There are an estimated 1,476,233,470 Muslims on the face of the planet: one billion in Asia, 400 million in Africa, 44 million in Europe and six million in the Americas. Every fifth human being is a Muslim; for every single Hindu there are two Muslims, for every Buddhist there are two Muslims and for every Jew there are one hundred Muslims. Ever wondered why Muslims are so powerless?
Here is why: There are 57 member-countries of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC), and all of them put together have around 500 universities; one university for every three million Muslims.
The United States has 5,758 universities and India has 8,407.
In 2004, Shanghai Jiao Tong University compiled an ‘Academic Ranking of World Universities’, and intriguingly, not one university from Muslim-majority states was in the top 500.
As per data collected by the UNDP, literacy in the Christian world stands at nearly 90 per cent and 15 Christian-majority states have a literacy rate of 100 per cent.
A Muslim-majority state, as a sharp contrast, has an average literacy rate of around 40 per cent.
There is no Muslim-majority state with a literacy rate of 100 per cent.
Some 98 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Christian world had completed primary school, while less than 50 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Muslim world did the same.
Around 40 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Christian world attended university while no more than two per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Muslim world did the same.
Muslim-majority countries have 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The US has 4,000 scientists per million and Japan has 5,000 per million.
In the entire Arab world, the total number of full-time researchers is 35,000 and there are only 50 technicians per one million Arabs (in the Christian world there are up to 1,000 technicians per one million). Furthermore, the Muslim world spends 0.2 per cent of its GDP on research and development, while the Christian world spends around five per cent of its GDP.
Conclusion: The Muslim world lacks the ambition to attain and produce knowledge.
Daily newspapers per 1,000 people and number of book titles per million are two indicators of whether knowledge is being diffused in a society.
In Pakistan, there are 23 daily newspapers per 1,000 Pakistanis while the same ratio in Singapore is 360. In the UK, the number of book titles per million stands at 2,000 while the same in Egypt is 20.
Conclusion: Drenched in empty ritualism, the Muslim world is failing to attain and diffuse knowledge.
Exports of high technology products as a percentage of total exports are an important indicator of knowledge application.
Pakistan’s exports of high technology products as a percentage of total exports stands at one per cent. The same for Saudi Arabia is 0.3 per cent; Kuwait, Morocco, and Algeria are all at 0.3 per cent while Singapore is at 58 per cent.
Conclusion: Shackled in the Mullah-peddled FATALISM and rituals, the Muslim world is failing to gain and apply knowledge.
Why are Muslims powerless?
Because they are waiting for “Imam” Mahdi to emerge and take them to glory.
BUT, the future belongs to knowledge-based societies.
Christians are doing very fine, too.
Interestingly, the combined annual GDP of 57 of the OIC countries is under $2 trillion. (OIC = Organization of Islamic Countries)
America, just by herself, produces goods and services worth $12 trillion, China $8 trillion, Japan $3.8 trillion and Germany $2.4 trillion (purchasing power parity basis).
Oil rich Saudi Arabia , UAE, Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services (mostly oil) worth $500 billion.
Spain alone produces goods and services worth over $1 trillion.
Catholic Poland $489 billion and Buddhist Thailand $545 billion.
(Muslim GDP as a percentage of the World GDP is fast declining).
So, why are Muslims so powerless?
Answer: Lack of education, ritualism, fatalism, apathy, the Mullah propagated dogma: This world is for others while the Eternal paradise is for the miserable Muslims. Muslims shout to Allah whole day and blame everyone else for their multiple failures.
Reason for lack of education: Apathy, waiting for Imam Mahdi & Jesus, insisting that we know it all, too much ritualism, fatalism, failure to recognize our shortcomings,
Insisting that Islam is all about what we have learned through our forefathers and ignorant Mullahs who call themselves “Ulema” and who, many a times, absolutely refuse to reconsider understanding of the Qur’an, and stick to the traditional (even erroneous) meanings.
11:117
Your Lord never unjustly destroys a community (for wrong beliefs alone) as long as its people are reformers, setting right their own, and one another’s condition.[The Quran is consistent in its theme that people will be rewarded for what they do (Ya’maloon), and not for what they know (Ya’lamoon). The Book stresses on the right belief system only because people are strongly influenced in their behavior by what they think and believe. Muslihoon = Reformers = Those who help their own and fellow humans’ condition = Those who set things right in their environment. This is one of the most revolutionary verses in the Quran. It throws out all dogmatic assertions that are the hallmark of a ‘religion’. As we have seen, Islam is not a ‘religion’ consisting merely of a set of some dogmas, rites and rituals. It is Ad-Deen, the Divinely Prescribed Collective Way of Life. Allama Muhammad Asad, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi et al are in complete agreement with the meaning of this verse 11:117 as translated here]
4:49
Have you seen those who claim that they have purified their souls? Purification or development of the ’self’ can only be achieved according to the laws of God, by service of humanity and not through rituals or mysticism. In the Court of God, men and women shall find full recompense for their doings without the least injustice.
Why are Muslims so powerless? Ignorance, apathy, waiting for rewards in the Hereafter.
There are an estimated 1,476,233,470 Muslims on the face of the planet: one billion in Asia, 400 million in Africa, 44 million in Europe and six million in the Americas. Every fifth human being is a Muslim; for every single Hindu there are two Muslims, for every Buddhist there are two Muslims and for every Jew there are one hundred Muslims. Ever wondered why Muslims are so powerless?
Here is why: There are 57 member-countries of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC), and all of them put together have around 500 universities; one university for every three million Muslims.
The United States has 5,758 universities and India has 8,407.
In 2004, Shanghai Jiao Tong University compiled an ‘Academic Ranking of World Universities’, and intriguingly, not one university from Muslim-majority states was in the top 500.
As per data collected by the UNDP, literacy in the Christian world stands at nearly 90 per cent and 15 Christian-majority states have a literacy rate of 100 per cent.
A Muslim-majority state, as a sharp contrast, has an average literacy rate of around 40 per cent.
There is no Muslim-majority state with a literacy rate of 100 per cent.
Some 98 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Christian world had completed primary school, while less than 50 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Muslim world did the same.
Around 40 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Christian world attended university while no more than two per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Muslim world did the same.
Muslim-majority countries have 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The US has 4,000 scientists per million and Japan has 5,000 per million.
In the entire Arab world, the total number of full-time researchers is 35,000 and there are only 50 technicians per one million Arabs (in the Christian world there are up to 1,000 technicians per one million). Furthermore, the Muslim world spends 0.2 per cent of its GDP on research and development, while the Christian world spends around five per cent of its GDP.
Conclusion: The Muslim world lacks the ambition to attain and produce knowledge.
Daily newspapers per 1,000 people and number of book titles per million are two indicators of whether knowledge is being diffused in a society.
In Pakistan, there are 23 daily newspapers per 1,000 Pakistanis while the same ratio in Singapore is 360. In the UK, the number of book titles per million stands at 2,000 while the same in Egypt is 20.
Conclusion: Drenched in empty ritualism, the Muslim world is failing to attain and diffuse knowledge.
Exports of high technology products as a percentage of total exports are an important indicator of knowledge application.
Pakistan’s exports of high technology products as a percentage of total exports stands at one per cent. The same for Saudi Arabia is 0.3 per cent; Kuwait, Morocco, and Algeria are all at 0.3 per cent while Singapore is at 58 per cent.
Conclusion: Shackled in the Mullah-peddled FATALISM and rituals, the Muslim world is failing to gain and apply knowledge.
Why are Muslims powerless?
Because they are waiting for “Imam” Mahdi to emerge and take them to glory.
BUT, the future belongs to knowledge-based societies.
Christians are doing very fine, too.
Interestingly, the combined annual GDP of 57 of the OIC countries is under $2 trillion. (OIC = Organization of Islamic Countries)
America, just by herself, produces goods and services worth $12 trillion, China $8 trillion, Japan $3.8 trillion and Germany $2.4 trillion (purchasing power parity basis).
Oil rich Saudi Arabia , UAE, Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services (mostly oil) worth $500 billion.
Spain alone produces goods and services worth over $1 trillion.
Catholic Poland $489 billion and Buddhist Thailand $545 billion.
(Muslim GDP as a percentage of the World GDP is fast declining).
So, why are Muslims so powerless?
Answer: Lack of education, ritualism, fatalism, apathy, the Mullah propagated dogma: This world is for others while the Eternal paradise is for the miserable Muslims. Muslims shout to Allah whole day and blame everyone else for their multiple failures.
Reason for lack of education: Apathy, waiting for Imam Mahdi & Jesus, insisting that we know it all, too much ritualism, fatalism, failure to recognize our shortcomings,
Insisting that Islam is all about what we have learned through our forefathers and ignorant Mullahs who call themselves “Ulema” and who, many a times, absolutely refuse to reconsider understanding of the Qur’an, and stick to the traditional (even erroneous) meanings.
Re: Ashura
Al-Muizz wrote:AZ,
I'm really at a loss understanding you fellas. I mean:
1. ARE YOU SHIAS OR NOT?
2. ARE YOU DAWOODI-BOHRAS OR NOT?
3. DO YOU BELIEVE IN AQA MOULA AS THE LEGITIMATE SPIRITUAL HEAD OF THE DAWOODI-BOHRA COMMUNITY OR NOT?
The Article below is posted on your own web site, by one of your own.............
No separation please, we are Dawoodi Bohras
by Shaukat Ajmer
So, IF you claim to be DAWOODI-BOHRAS, and IF you claim that AQA MOULA IS THE LEGITIMATE SPIRITUAL LEADER OF THE DAWOODI-BOHRA COMMUNITY, and IF you claim to be Shia, then.....
1. How in the world did you begin to have your own Imamat namaaz WITHOUT THE BLESSING OF THE DAI? THIS IS TOTALLY COUNTER TO THE SHIA PHILOSOPHY, AND ALL DAWOODI-BOHRA TEACHINGS!
2. You GIVE MISAAQ TO THE IMAM AND IN HIS ABSENCE TO HIS DAI, MADHUN, MUKASIR.......WHO ARE YOU GIVING MISAAQ TO?
I can understand your beef with the money issues within the community....but WHAT YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YEZID (LA) DID WITH IMAM HUSAYN! YOU ARE IN EFFECT CREATING YOUR OWN VERSION OF SHIA ISMAILISM AND EXPECTING IT TO BE LEGITIMIZED! JUST LIKE THE DAMNED WAHABIS! THEY ADDED IN A 6TH IMAMAT SALAH, THE TARAVEEH AND LEGITIMIZED IT!
REALLY MESSED UP INDIVIDUALS HERE!
Al Muizz:
1. How in the world did you begin to have your own Imamat namaaz WITHOUT THE BLESSING OF THE DAI? THIS IS TOTALLY COUNTER TO THE SHIA PHILOSOPHY, AND ALL DAWOODI-BOHRA TEACHINGS!
Mubarak:
Book Name: Daim-ul-Islam
Chapter Name: Kitabus Salat
Topic: Imamat
Location: 1st Paragraph
Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.) said that Mola Ali (a.s.) said: “…congregation should select that person for ‘Imamat’ who is better than all (‘Afzal’).”
Does this statement of Molana Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.) infers that the locality dwellers who throng in that locality mosque know each other better than members of Kothar who are sitting remotely in Mumbai, thus locals are in better state to filter on person who is better among them – is not there the clear indication by Imam Sadik (a.s.) that congregation select their ‘Imam’ than superimposed by ‘raza’ of Dai-al-Mutlaq?
Is it possible for you to kindly provide any references of books inked before ninety year where it is categorically written that ONLY Dai-al-Mutlaq can appoint ‘Imam’ for ‘namaz’ in any mosque/’markaz’?
Al Muizz:
2. You GIVE MISAAQ TO THE IMAM AND IN HIS ABSENCE TO HIS DAI, MADHUN, MUKASIR.......WHO ARE YOU GIVING MISAAQ TO?
Mubarak:
For your information: Please correct the word ‘absence’, the faith of Dawoodi Bohras (the pristine Islam) is that the Imam is not absent but present though he is in veil. The categorical title of this type of Imam is ‘Mustakar Imam’. There are also ‘Mustoda Imam or Nabi’
From Molana Aadam Kulli (a.s.) i.e. from beginning of planet Earth till Molana Quaim Kulli (a.s.) i.e. the last point of planet Earth life, there will be unbroken chain of Mustakar Imam.
Dawoodi Bohras belief on Misaaq:
Mumin is like a coal – black and cold. Misaaq is like a fanning fire, which turns that coal in ‘noor’ i.e. hot and useful and on its end in color white. Misaaq is the key difference between Mumeen and other so called Muslims (they are Muslims only in name and not in deeds only Dawoodi Bohras are indeed Muslims). Misaaq connects Mumeens to spirituality. Non Dawoodi Bohras though they may do tons of prayers and thousands of fasts but are all useless like a child is born with all body parts intact like hands/eyes/etc but what is the use till it is not born with ‘rooh’/life? Thus, Misaaq is in the place of ‘rooh’. If Misaaq is not there and rest forms of prayers are present then all is useless. Misaaq is a must for all Dawoodi Bohras.
The only authority is Mustakar Imam and rest all designations in Islam are his servants. Burhanuddin Sahib rightly says that he is ‘Mamlook e Imam’ (slave of Imam), can a slave equal to his Lord? No. Thus Misaaq (oath of allegiance) will be given to only Mustakar Imam and not to his slaves? Progressive Dawoodi Bohras does give their Misaaq to the Mustakar Imam and in almost all cases after Misaaq of Progressive Dawoodi Bohra Mumin there is ‘khushi nu jaman’ in Boharwadi located PDB Jamat Khana in Udaipur, Rajasthan, India.
Best regards,
Mubarak
Re: Ashura
The pagan ancient acts and rituals are not tantamount to symbolic venerations because they are meaningless and serves no purpose today. Idols and idolworshipping acts and rituals of jahilia period must be shunned at all costs in our advancing modern era and intellectuals use their common sense to live in universal acceptance, treaty and harmony as dictated by our current paths. Only then mankind can behave like humans as ONE SPECIE. Islam does not permit such advancing universality and is severly and sadly bent upon backward enforcements.aftabm wrote:All relegious beleifs are full of these rituals. Circumambulating a black stone building while doing hajj, throwing pebbles on some stones or for that matter, praying salat in a particular way on a particular time is nothing but a set of rituals. If those can be be justified why not these rituals. If all these acts are symbolic in nature, as the "anti-ashura" brigade would put it, so is ash'ara. Why make so much of fuss about it....
-
GreatBarrier
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:52 pm
Re: Ashura
It is quite disapointing that Saifudin Insaf in his web publication has not researched the view points raised in the several threads that I and others have contributed when writing his article
I will not repeat the previous threads but a parting comment.
We do not celebrate the events as we do Idd and Mubarak literal meaning is Blessed...and Ashura Mubarak literally translates to "Blessed Ashura" . Please do not manipulate words and analyse it out of context to use it for you objective to criticise Bohras...If it was happy we would have gone further and added Eid-ul Ashura Mubarak ! Please refer to Arabic experts for further clarification.
Saifudin claims he is "us" but he cannot use "we" to describe Bohras..I would rather he states "they"...!
The article is regurgitating historical information drifts into using that as a basis of his argument against the practises of the thousands who attend Muharam as practised by majority the Bohras...I hope he does avoids that in his Part 2 !Karbala and its relevance to Dawoodi Bohras -1
I will not repeat the previous threads but a parting comment.
We do not celebrate the events as we do Idd and Mubarak literal meaning is Blessed...and Ashura Mubarak literally translates to "Blessed Ashura" . Please do not manipulate words and analyse it out of context to use it for you objective to criticise Bohras...If it was happy we would have gone further and added Eid-ul Ashura Mubarak ! Please refer to Arabic experts for further clarification.
Saifudin claims he is "us" but he cannot use "we" to describe Bohras..I would rather he states "they"...!
Re: Ashura
Ahlul Jahils ~ the sub-human species:
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/matam ... s-of-matam
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/matam ... s-of-matam
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/matam/matam
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/matam ... s-of-matam
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/matam ... s-of-matam
http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/matam/matam
Re: Ashura
This qoute is from the link that you have posted. I am sorry to say but you are the biggest jahil on this forum as inspite of repeatedly telling you in this thread that one does not need to do maatam to understand the sacrifice of Imam Husain you have constantly tried to equate Muharram with maatam and self torture. People who do this kind of matam have definitely failed to understand the meaning of sacrifice and Islam. Remember that it is not neccessary to do Matam and carry out self torture to understand the Sacrifice of Imam Husain. Hence, to give their example to criticize Islam is an biggest act of Jahaliyaa... As I have told you very clearly that you have completely failed to understand the true meaning of this thread...As for the Ahlus Sunnah, they are saddened by the wrongful death of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). He is one of the many great heroes of Islam that died in the Name of Allah.
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Ashura
gb,GreatBarrier wrote: Saifudin claims he is "us" but he cannot use "we" to describe Bohras..I would rather he states "they"...!
first of all, have some respect for the person you address simply as saifuddin. he is your father's age and he is a person who always addresses others with respect unfailingly and deserves the same.
secondly, in several posts you implore reformists to forget the past and re-join as abde-syednas, but from yr tone and attitude above you act the opposite. if that is yr approach, then all you want to do is further divide. this is precisely the behaviour of intolerance that your masters display and you are reflecting.
on the one hand you accuse the reformists of a one-point agenda, viz. syedna bashing and hatred. on the other hand you show the same hatred as your leaders do for anyone who dares to question the wrongs being perpetrated in our deen in the name of religion.
why the double talk???